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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2022
- ( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! Welcome back to TFL Talkin' Trucks! In this episode,
Andre and Nathan discuss what it's like to live with a new 2022 Ford E-Transit all-electric full-size van and how it is on a road trip and in city driving.
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#ford #etransit #vanlife - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I work for Amazon, I have never done more than 150 miles in a day doing deliveries. Even when I travel about an hour away from the warehouse. The range of this is not bad.
I own an HVAC business and have been driving my E transit now for three months and I absolutely love it and will not go back to gas. This is saving me $400 a week in gas. People may think it’s controversial but for me it’s pure economics I have never once even come close to running out of range and I am getting almost 100 miles more than what Ford said I was going to get. So no range anxiety whatsoever. I have a 148 long,low roof
My best range was 196 miles on a single charge. All back roads ,city and country roads. And I get 2.7-3.3 kWh per mile And I have about 1500+ pounds in it
Did you actually get 196 miles, or is that just read out?
I ask this because the battery will be more efficient lower in the charge cycle. If you were to charge to 100%, you actually will get less efficiency, which lowers your total real range.
@@AkioWasRight yes. Actually 196.1 From 100%-0%. Put it into turtle mode,but made it home to my charger. 3.1-3.3 kWh per mile. No a/c
@@scottmason2094 I don't believe you went to 0%.
@@scottmason2094 Also, 3.1-3.3kWh/mile with a 68kWh battery is 210.8-224.4 miles.
You're making no sense here.
Funny watching this inside of my E Transit. Been waiting for these guys to review one, currently at 15,000 miles on mine in just over 4 months
I have a 2023, Long, tall E Transit. I'm converting it for full time RVing. High speeds will lower the range, but in my experience, it's the van's heater that really lowers the range. So I'm adding a separate system of solar panels, and Lithium batteries with an inverter to run a ceramic heater in colder weather, so I won't have to use the van's heater. I've also insulated the van so it heats up with less energy. The fast charging networks are price gouging, making it more expensive to drive longer distances. That is the biggest drawback to going electric right now with a larger EV. They will need to be regulated just as gas prices are regulated so they can't charge us $10 per gallon in areas with no competition. Electrify America is charging .53 cents per kWh, so I avoid them or only get the least amount it takes to get home.
Weight don't affect range as much as velocity.
Yes, the force needed for acceleration is F=m•a but when decelerating the invers applies so in a perfect world you get all energy back. In the real world some of that energy is lost mainly as heat.
All energy needed to maintain speed is to overcome friction, mostly air resistance but also rolling resistance. Rolling resistance increases with mass but aero doesn't. Also both aero and rolling resistance increases with velocity square.
Also you always say evs are better at city driving because of regenetiv braking, but it's mainly because of low aero at slow speeds and a very effective drive train.
The city driving/regenerative braking advantage is mostly relative to ICE vehicles, which are least efficient in those scenarios. Everyone with some experience with electric vehicles knows this, but it's a completely foreign realization for people who have engrained in their consciousness that city driving is worse.
Truth is, despite the fairly small range, traveling with the E-Transit is still more practical than pulling a camper with Ford Lightning.
A plumbing company did videos with a little under 2,000 pounds of load with very little affect on range. It will be interesting to see what TFL finds.
“A nice, quiet vehicle on your final drive.” OMG. I laughed out loud so hard, I woke up my neighbors.
I’m exploring electric van options for low-milage seasonal van life starting no earlier than 2025. The eSprinter is longer than I want at 23 feet. There isn’t yet an ePromaster in the US. You are right that conversions are pricey… see the Maxwell Vanacea.
Another channel said Ford won’t “allow access” to the traction battery to provide DC power for domestics (house lights, water pump, etc). The Pro Power Onboard option could provide AC; however, converting this back to DC sounds inefficient.
Of course, solar panels could supply house batteries for DC and inverter, though it would be nice if those panels could also charge the traction battery. Any functional ideas how this could work, short of running a cord to the 120V charging port? I’m just starting to learn about power, so I may have used some wrong or weasel words here.
I suggest you use 2000 pounds as a nice round weight for your loaded test. This is a work van, not a Home Depot run van.
Back in the 90’s Ford made commercial Ford Rangers for our electric utility company here in West Michigan. Their job site inspectors were using them and the Rangers were basically riding around with an electric forklift battery. The guys said it was quite the rough ride and had a big stack of leaf springs to hold the weight.
Thank You for supporting Electric Vehicles and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
Nathan you da man.... " I'm wider than the Mini!" Props for large and in charge. Love that Guy!
I live in Washington state. I see Rivian Amazon vans all the time, every day.
Andre, if you decide to electrify the dual gas tank vehicle and it has two fuel filling tubes, would you consider parallelizing the battery so a second charging system could be put onboard? The software in the vehicle or the switches would need to set which mode to be using, and the other charging system would need to be shorted to ground to ensure that the charger is not able to be used while one is in use for the single charger mode, and when two chargers are available, it could be set so that both chargers could be used, but the battery is physically 2 separate batteries rather than 2 batteries connected in parallel. This prevents the shorting of the two chargers and no battery being charged. I know in the dual gas tank set up that is in my family, there is a switch in the cab to select which gas tank is going to be in use. I do not know if your vehicle would have that. That switch could set up the mode. Since the battery is smaller, it should charge faster because parallelization increases amperage rather than voltage. There should also be circuitry to make the switch not change the mode during a charging session.
It's a hybrid if you put a generator in the back😂
what about the auxiliary power unit and plug-ins in the rear for recharging tool batteries/running tools
I love the amazon van. im in nyc and I see it everyday
I agree this XV (Xanax vehicle) makes somewhat sense. Something inside city/ tri county limits. Not to excited about having socket dead center of grill. Nothing like cleaning bugs, snow/slush/road salt off before opening. Oh that’s right we all live in cali
42:10
Did you just calculate the cost to fill each vehicle without calculating MPG/range?
A 100 gallon tank will always be more expensive compared to a 50 gallon tank.
The interesting part is comparing costs per mile in gas VS electric, not how much it costs to fill up.
What kind of display or printout can I get off of one of the home chargers? Right now my shop gets a tax deduction for the gas we use. If I have to start using the electricity I pay for at my house to charge my work vehicle, how does that work.
For RVs I would love to see a solar system/diesel generator model. These are already on most RVs and could easily be wired to charge the battery while driving. They should be able to get enough output from the combination to greatly increase the range with a more aerodynamically designed cabin
No no, no diesel. Atkinson gas engine is efficient enough. Diesel will invoke all the emission and DEF maintenance nightmare. Beside Diesel is not that efficient without a turbo.
The Regen button is L mode. Use that to have maximum regen.
Hi: Enjoyed watching your video. I did a little research about the 2023 Ram ev van based on the Fiat Ducato. I think this van has some very interesting specs. Do a comparison.& post your thoughts.
Y'all should use an OBD2 scanner and app to keep an eye on EV parameters that aren't stated. I do this with my car just for fun. Learned it from Byorn.
How long would it take to charge with an electric generator?. If that can be done
As a tradie most of the time this range would be fine but often enough it would be an issue to make it not worth me buying sadly also loaded up with tools and supplies all the time I'd imagine the range would be lower again. I'd for sure buy a hybrid van though.
If the battery is full, then there is no place to put the energy, so if you don't want to burn up the electric motors one must stop using regen.
6 trucks will need a 225 amp service at full load for the duration of the charging... Hope everyone is ready to upgrade their electrical
Just a note, using 85 octane will void the warranty on most cars. No manufacturer recommends using anything lower then 87 octane.
I'm just looking at the larger picture.
Since you shouldn't charge a battery to a full cycle but more around 10% to 80%, your real-world range is more between 70 and 90 miles. If you were to drive more than those miles a day, you'd really would be pushing it.
Also, batteries generally have a life of 1500 charge cycles, which is also generally estimated with partial charging cycles. If a van is driven daily under the recommend conditions, that only gives the battery a life of 4.1 years before the battery starts seeing significantly life wear. That's if you're not pushing.
Also, as I mentioned on TFLEV, these vans have significantly less cargo capacity than a regular gas transit, over 30% less. That means the potential income from a van is over 30% less per van. To make up for that, you would need a large fleet of vans, or vans would need to drive more to generate the same income, which means more cost.
When you consider the significantly shorter lifespan of the fleet combined with less productivity per van, the advantages begin to become insignificant, because they tradeoff so much in return.
It's all great in theory when you say you can go X miles for X dollars, but you have to look at the larger picture. Could a large fleet of E-Vans ultimately be as profitable as fleet of gas? I don't think so at all, at least for most. Maybe it's doable and advantageous for some businesses, particularly for those businesses who can gain tax benefits or think it signals some kind of virtue to customers that care for sort of thing, but it generally doesn't add up.
Nobody knows the total cycle count of any EVs battery - I'm not seeing it published by any OEM.
You make it sound like after it reachs a certain cycle count capacity just drops to zero. Obviously, that isn't the case.
I'm not buying your degradation scare story. There was a Chevy Bolt that went 100k with less than 6 percent pack loss.
OEMs aren't stupid when they build these things. Many don't make the entire pack capacity available to the driver and open up additional capacity as the car ages to help account for degradation.
@@MyGoogleTH-cam Okay, nobody knows, but that's what manufacturers claim. 1,500 is commonly estimated by many companies, including Tesla.
Also, I didn't say it would go to zero. I didn't even suggest such thing. But in a van with such critical range to begin with, degradation is all the more important to understand, particularly if degradation is nonlinear. Your Bolt degradation reference is just anecdotal, not necessarily an example of anything typical. Honestly, it doesn't even apply, so who cares...
Taxi companies have used the Prius for a decade or more with virtually no battery issues. I know it's a hybrid and it's Apple to oranges but batteries that last 10 plus years easy are a real thing. And by my math these batteries are using 10 yr old tech.
@@FrankyRedEyes They've been using them for 10 years, but that doesn't they keep an entire fleet for that long.
Also, hybrids are tuned and used very differently than a delivery van would be, with different charging cycles and different loads.
Your arguments against these van doesn’t add up - you don’t know (none of us do) how long the batteries will last, and your idea that profitability is solely predicated on the economics of load capacity versus services delivered in the back - not all businesses are cargo delivery that would use these vehicles in their fleets. All you have is an axe to grind, an agenda to advance, and noting really to base your scare facts on that is concrete. Weird, those are Fox News tactics too. GTFOH, this is the future. Adapt or get out of the way.
An electric pinzgauer could be fun. I'm wondering how an electric drive could work with portal axles.
Jerry Rig Everything has an electric hummer where you could see that. Long story short is factory axels and transfer case.
"Have you thought about electrifying your buhanka"??? Hey easy, this is a family show
Great review...very cold and very hot conditions will determine overall usability...this is another great Ford product
WTAF is “controversial” about this? It’s genius to eliminate pollution in the city. Either employ reason or you don’t.
The L button is for near one pedal driving with max regen braking.
Yeah 🎉
Many in town delivery vans do between 100 and 200 deliveries/day and travel less than 70 miles. The weight these vans carry depends on the route. Anywhere between 500lbs to 3 tons of freight goes in and out these every day. How will the handle 20 below zero? Only time will tell.
I live in the New England area and there's no way I would ever trust in electrical vehicle in the. They won't take a full charge they take forever to get charged and it's absurd. I'm looking to get a 6.6 L Chevy Express cargo Van. The hell with the electrical vehicle shit lines. They will I'll perform something like that. Let's look at the same two vehicles in 15 years and see which ones still runs and how much maintenance has been put into each other!
Wish they made a crew
I use my 100' electric extension cord every time to whack my lawn. It is a chore to unwind and wind that big roll of cord. Owning an eV is like you are tied to a long electrical cord. 150 miles is still too short for most places in the West.
Are y'all talking $11 a day to charge? Versus $55 for a tank of fuel. If you're charging every day of the week it sounds like it'll cost more to charge than fill up. I assume you wouldn't charge every single day depending but still. Just my two cents.
Keeping it real poverty to millionaire, Electric Transit is the way to go, I have to get me the medium transit van.
1st 😜.... HAPPY SATURDAY HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY EVERYONE
Battery rc toy.1.5 hour range on highway
85 octane is a big deal, it’s trash. If you want to see your variable valve timing become more now and signs of that nation leading your engine to an early grave go ahead and save a few cents. 85 octane especially with these new undersized turbo charged engines is only going to lead to catastrophic problems down the road.
Sure the eTransit had good mileage. It was empty.
Fleet setting is best for EVs. As many as 50% Chinese cities have switched their public transit vehicles to EVs.
TFL: I believe you are unintentionally misleading people with regards to lower maintenance/repairs on EVs.
Brakes: Yes regen saves your brake pads, but that does NOT mean you can avoid doing brake maintenance, if you do not service your calipers regularly, they will start to bind and drag the brake pads. This ofcourse is terrible for an EV as more drag will reduce range.
Tires: EVs are heavy! They use special low rolling resistance tires that have terrible tread life.
Coolant: You mentioned this, but not accurately. EVs have radiators still, and water pumps. The Chevy bolt has 2 radiators, one for the battery pack, one for the HVAC system, the coolant must be changed every 5 years,or if there is any servicing of the battery cooling system, it is also not standard coolant it is EV specific to not harm the battery pack.
Suspension parts: Being so heavy EVs do wear Suspension parts faster, they also require wheel alignments more frequently due to this.
Scenario: We had a Tesla Model Y come in on trade( we are a GM dealership) it had 50 0000km (30k miles) the brakes were rusty and near frozen, the tires were below legal tread depth and needed replacement, these were 21" tires too. The cost of tires were $2500 dollars Canadian, plus the 3 hours of labour. 1 hour for tires 2 hours for free up the brakes. Some serious costs on a 2 year old car. Also this car had a faulty tail lamp. There are 3 Tesla outlets/service locations in our province, not one of them would return our calls. They would only communicate via email, and they flat out refused to sell us a tail lamp, they said whomever we sold it to would have to come to them.
The last part is definitely a Tesla only problem. However, tires are typically the most expensive maintenance item on any car/truck, on EVs they are more expensive and need to replaced much more frequently. If you live in an area that requires winter tires, you must also be extremely careful in your winter tire selection, some aggressive treads have a major impact on range.
Please factor this in when you talk about maintenance costs.
The argument or point being made comparing EV vs gas vehicle maintenance costs is not considering total costs to purchase at $10k more to buy, that covers a lot of maintenance cost assuming the EV lasts 10 yrs it would be $1k per year in free maintenance or prepaid buy purchasing the gas vehicle. Also this video glossed over the range per fill up on the EV at $11/30 USD vs $50/80 or whatever it was 🙂so the numbers weren't really shown over all...
As for jumping right into whichever vehicle you need depending on which best suits EV or Gas because you need to go over 200 miles distance; So now a business owner has to have 2 vehicles sitting with all duplicate tools and equipment or move everything from one to the other depending on the needs of a given route or destination? LOL Once again not practical as this takes time and labor plus vast resources! Real world applications are not conducive for EV use at this time for a majority of applications as I see it to date.
Technology may close the gap eventually but I predict the segment will never be truly cost effective unless government subsidies continue indefinitely which I have a big problem with personally. The numbers on actual cost per mile of use over the long term or "life of the vehicle" (say 10 -15 yrs) all in: to purchase, to own, taxes, maintenance, fuel, disposal, etc. minus gov't subsidies has yet to be calculated anywhere that I can find. Perhaps a job for Andre!
The tank-to-tank conversion is not a valid method. This means you are stating the work done per tank is equivalent. They are not. It is better to look at energy unit price conversion. It requires about 2.5 times of gasoline to actually get 1 gallon of work. $3.52 times 2.5 = $8.80. The EV takes 33.7kW to get one gallon of work approximately according to the EPA. Unit is $.16 average, times 33.7kW to get one gallon of gas. This is $5.392 per gallon. The problem is that the charging companies have not even remotely decided to look at the pricing as their price is not going to change. It is a regulated monopoly who is selling to them. They are attempting to charge you $10.45 / gallon. The only charging that should be done at a charging station based on this pricing is minimal to get you home. Diesel at its price is worse than electricity as electrons are electrons, but there is little reason why the charging station should be charging this much per kilowatt unless maintenance prices for the chargers are high or charging sessions on vehicles are prohibitively long. The average between the home and charging station still is less than $8, but not by much.
Yes, this method does ignore the minor efficiency improvements on the vehicle, but there would need to be a test to try to compare the two vehicles with a set distance and the energy used could then be used to determine on average the work conversion. Ideally, the course would be proportionate to use case to determine how the vehicles compare, but even a non-ideal course should still give some idea of what the price should be, but it would not include how much charging at stations would need to be done. This is not a range test, which was the mistake in the towing set up, nor a race. Tommy needed to charge before the construction zone to bypass the zone, but instead he backtracked to get a charger and the test was ended. The conversion of work done replaces the 2.5 in the above calculation for the price of the gasoline to get the best price comparison. The 2.5 is a fair comparison because if it is less than that, we should be generating electricity with the drive train and emissions set up of that vehicle. We are not.
“We aren’t going to talk about gas vs electric. We don’t want to delve into the politics.”
Say what? This isn’t political. They can be objectively, factually compared.
ev's are a waste of electrons!
You cannot create or destroy matter.
Loss exists in every mechanical conversion. Yes, an EV may 'waste' up to 10% of the electrons, but a gasoline engine wastes 80% of the energy in its fuel.
And what is a noble use of electrons?
TH-cam warriors bashing things they know very little about? Is that a better use of electrons?