History of WWI Primer 104: S&W 1917 Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
American Economic Mobilization: A Study in the
Mechanism of War , 55 HARV. L. REV. 427 (1942)
U.S. Handguns of World War II: The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers
Charles W. Pete
Serious Smith & Wesson
Timothy J. Mullin
U.S. Handguns of World War II: The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers
Charles W. Pete
British Secondary Small Arms 1914-1918, Vol.2
A.O. Edwards
Canadian Military Handguns, 1855-1985
Clive M. Law
Revolvers of the British Services, 1854 - 1954
W.H.J. Chamberlain and A.W.F. Taylerson
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
Support this content at:
/ candrsenal
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www.subscribes...
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candrsenal.com...
Snail Mail us at:
C&Rsenal
3642 Savannah Hwy Ste 116
Box 103
JOHNS ISLAND, SC, US, 29455
If I were a globe-trotting archaeologist on a top secret mission for the U.S. government, this would probably be my weapon of choice.
He switched to the Webley Green after the Ark business and remained his weapon since. Oldie but goodie
@@chrismc410 Considering that he was operating in Europe and in British Empire (whether former or current holdings with respect to the era that the films were set), going with the Webley made sense in terms of the ease of ammunition procurement, from a logistical standpoint.
Like En Busca del Arca perdida
Did you ever notice in bar shoot out from "Raiders of the Lost Ark" that halfway through gunfight Indiana starts using a Browning Hi-Power 9mm pistol? He walked into that bar wearing 2 pistols
@@kirkbolas4985 yeah Plus while it might not be as good as the 1917 in real life, in The silver screen you can't really beat that splash of brass from a break action revolver.
As my favorite merchant put it "I see you have an eye for things. Gun's not just about shootin', it's about reloadin'!
"The invisible hand was going to be replaced with a boxing glove" is my favorite summation of war production economics. Such a nicely turned phrase.
This is probably the fastest "war were declared " in the series
I still think the Pedersen is faster.
Spörde Spyrdenstein me too😂
Lucas Hagg by about 20 seconds
2:32
Did someone say... *BIG IRON*
where is that dam arizona ranger
*With a big iron on his hip. BIG IRON BIG IRON BIG IRON ON HIS HIP*
Yeah , I thought they used them to take creases out of giant shirts?
Nope.
Nobody said that.
TO THE FOREST OF BELLEAU WOOD RODE A STRANGER ONE FINE DAY
Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn’t have too much to say.
Overwatch God Damn Prussia Red!
@@jaxonbidinger4000 He's a Boche spy, loose and running, came A whisper from each lip, and he's here to do some spyin' with the Big Iron on his hip.
Jan Wacławik Big iron on his hiiiip~
Sleep is for those who aren't addicted to old revolvers, keep up the great work guys.
Who isn't addicted to old revolvers?
@@awacslongcaster7394 true
@@awacslongcaster7394 Chumps, that's who.
You mean the Reichsrevolver wasn’t your favorite revolver
This 1911 pistol you keep mentioning. Whatever happened to it? Was it something used by any military or did it just become another Forgotten Weapon? 😉😉😉
Probably just another Forgotten Weapon, I mean, WHO would want a semi auto over the smooth double/single action revolvers????? :)
It's not forgotten,,most American semi automatic pistols were somehow based on the 1911, it's still made now by some manufacturers,,it's the most famous semi automatic hand gun ever made,,it will never be a forgotten weapon,,,
@@briandunstan3503 Are you sure??? I don't recall any semi automatic handguns that were particularly useful. (Sarcasm off) (I think there are probably 8 or 9 1911A1's in the safe, but no straight 1911's. ;) (that's a wink...)
Dear lord, if Ian could be present for that episode it would marvelous....buuut it will probably be Vickers Tactical instead. (Not that I hate him...but he's not Ian)
@@briandunstan3503 Sense of humour failure ???
I don’t know if this is a good idea but would it be cool if mark was to come on too and talk about the guns from an armourers perspective and what his thoughts are on how easy it would be to service and repair and keep running on the field
A few months ago it was my good fortune to run across an all-numbers-matching 1917 (1937 Brazilian) at a local auction and being able to buy it for an extremely reasonable price; likely due to the fact that it's been completely refinished. It really is a beautiful piece of history. No, the true collector's value for the purist is not there do to the re-bluing job, but it's amazing to take it out in my back yard, load it up and let off a few rounds while realizing there is a very real chance that this very gun was used in Italy by a WWII soldier in the Brazilian Expeditionary Force. It's amazing to think that 80+ years ago some young guy also picked it up for the first time, hopefully appreciating its beauty and quality and then trusted his life to it.
It's a sweet shooter--very mild on recoil--and by loading my own ammo using .45 Auto Rim brass there's no need to even mess with moon clips while still achieving full function of the ejector rod. Of course for nostalgic reasons I have some half-moon clips on hand--as well as some original WWII era ammo that won't be fired--to round out the effect.
Mae, you're spot-on regarding the ergonomics of S&W's choice of the cylinder release design. Colt makes nice guns, but in IMO there's nothing instinctive or efficient in having to reach forward to pull the release compared to Smith's natural and fluid motion of sliding your thumb forward and using it--like you said--as a purchase to give your index finger leverage to pop the cylinder out.
This gun is lovely and it was very satisfying to run across your video.
I still predict the 1911 episode on November 5th 2019. 45th week of 2019. So 45 19 11
But that's 9/5/19. Where'd the 11 come from?
@@1Notten the 45th week of 2019 is the 1st full week of November
@@1Notten 9? where is your 9 from? the 11 comes from the month? (november beeing the 11th month)
@@nirfz the 19 is from 2019
@@adamtarbaux7769 i know, but 1Notten wrote 9/5/19 and i asked about the 9 not the 19.
Ahhh, another quality Bedtime story from the Big-O.
A college level class on firearms history, excellent! Thank you for your efforts!
My father owned a 1917 S&W. It was a fantastic shooter; we'd pack it on nearly every range trip. If we were getting frustrated by another gun, a couple of cylinder loads through the S&W was a fine way to relax.
First we had the all .32 ACP channel. Next we had the all Mauser channel. Now we have the all wheel gun channel.
This has been science with Othias..
And it's AWESOME!!!
And years before all of the above, we had Forgotten Bergmanns...
@@etelmo And that was the best time ever. 😁😁😁
did someone say MONTH OF FRANCE
The only thing I can think of is "Yes." I've waited so long for this episode, Thanks guys, this makes me really happy.
Please stop teasing me with the 1897. I mean, it’s right there behind you and all I want to hear is that awesome racking sound. Why must you torture me, Othias? 😭😭😭😭😭
Jokes aside, another fantastic and very interesting episode. 👍🏻
My favorite format by far, informative, instructive and entertaining. Thanks to the whole crew for these great videos.
A great revolver is still an awesome choice for the public at large. And my first with moon clips is the just re-released S&W 610.. Might be my new favorite gun! Simply awesome!
I carried both while working for private security in Canada, neither of them snub nosed. I turned the Colt in for a S&W because the Colt hand grips felt wee, as in granny small. The Smith and Wesson filled my hand much better.
I liked the footage of the lady shooting. Her smile of satisfaction afterwards speaks volumes.
I enjoyed the presentation.
Thank you.
My impression was that the early S&W M1917's the cylinder was simply just drilled right through, and a .45 ACP cartridge would slide completely through and out the other side. The one you have appears to have a ledge in it, it's just very low in the cylinder. The one I have has that same low ledge, (serial # under 10,000 though the cylinder seems to have a serial # in the 13,000's) From what I was under the impression of was that the low ledge like we have is at some point someone modified the cylinder so it could shoot .45 LC. Now that said my impressions are based off of something I read on the internet at one time (which I can't find any confirmation of now), which may simply be nothing more than 100 years of gun shop "experts" talking about something they have no clue about. It wouldn't be the first wrong thing I have read about them, considering from what I have read online, mine with a serial number under 10,000 puts it as being manufactured in January of 1918. If production started back in August of 1917 and they were only producing 2000 a month mine would still have been produced in 1917.
The cylinder being recut to accept .45 LC is the most likely scenario. I have a 4 digit serial # from December of 1917, all matching, that can shoot .45 ACP without moon clips just fine.
No work today again! I can watch the whole thing this morning!
These S&W 1917s like the Colt 1917s were also very popular with tankers in WW2 for the same reason: they could be fired from inside a tank without the problem of brass bouncing around the interior.
Cool to hear Mayes perspective. I have always felt modern s&w had better ergonomics and just feels better in operation, interesting they did a better job at making it user friendly to end user even way back 100 + years ago
I have one that looks like it went through a time machine from 1918 - Nearly in brand new orig condition, and the action is simply unreal for any revolver, let alone a service arm. Lockup is truly 'bank vault' like, timing is perfect, smooth as silk, crisp and clicky. Amazing what true pride in workmanship can do 105 years ago.
Crazy how much better this revolver is than many nations primary sidearm.
Great vid--- my LGS had one, brought it home yesterday--- serial puts it at 1918 made, bluing is still excellent, some barrel wear. But she is a beaut.
Way to go! Another amazing, informative episode, thank you for all you do.
I found a Colt 1917 on the bottom shelf in a Lynchburg, VA pawnshop nearly 20 years ago. My quest for a S&W 1917 only succeeded last year. Honestly I was surprised by the differences. The S&W is better finished and looks more elegant. The thumb piece is much better. The Colt just looks brutish, and the double action trigger pull is mind bogglingly stiff.
I love my S&W 1917 so much fun to shoot. Mine was apparently made under the government control of the manufacturing.
How can you tell?
I love my M1937 Brazilian Contract, a later 1917 basically
The half/full moon clip has to be one of the most elegant (effective, simple, cheap) solutions to a problem in the history of firearms.
I remember a range trip in my youth. Someone had brought his brother's S&W M1917, but we had no half-moon clips and assumed we couldn't fire it. The stupidity of youth.
It's a cooling looking gun. A long lost friend had one. It bites the web of your hand pretty hard with full loads. Had I ended up getting it from him, I would have spoiled it's looks by getting a padded grip.
Awesome- been waiting for this one. The house I moved into had a Smith 1917 frame, and I've since built two from parts. Barrels aren't easy to find, but I found some after a few years of saved searches.
Nick Champlin Ya mean Numrich didn’t have a barrel of barrels for you to pick from? 😎
@@samiam619 I think numrich had most things, but not cranes, cylinders, or barrels.
Thanks for posting. I found the comparison of the Colt and Smith very interesting. I am surprised you didn't mention the weight difference.
Why? Is one of the guns much much heavier?
@@sharkfinbite Colt is about a half pound heavier
1) S&W 1917
2) Colt 1917
3) Webley mk VI
4) Type 26
5) All the other "New" style Colt & S&W DA/SA Revolvers
Yes, I put the Japanese above the other Murica Wheel Guns, simply because of speed of load/reload. I feel it's actually an underrated, while still certainly imperfect, revolver. But the top 3 on this list I'd take over most of the Automatics issued in the great war, at least those not named Luger or Colt 1911. (possibly a few others, as pretty much anything in 32 ACP or similar loading is going to be below any of the top 3 revolvers)
One of these firing segments should definitely have “I didn’t raise my boy to be a soldier” in them. It’s the antithesis of the song played in this segment.
It’s also the most iconic WW1 song imo
Hey Othais, where’s your “Armistice Were Declared” montage?
(Only half joking)
DebatingWombat they did in the Pederson episode
YEAH, MOON CLIPS and a S&W 1917 with a reshaped front sight!!
I remember reading Skeeter Skelton (if I’m not mistaken) mentioning that many people would buy surplus 1917s and have the cylinders reamed to take .45 Colt. Could that be why your early example has that issue?
Why they did that i don't know. Model 25s were a thing then as they are now and could be had in either caliber.
@@chrismc410 If I had to guess, probably pricing. These lovelies used to be a dime a dozen back in the day from what I was told
@@ST-zm3lm yes but still Smith and Wesson had you covered if you wanted to shoot .45 Colt without the need to ream out your cylinder. They also sold you a cylinder and yoke fitted your gun's hand and ratchet if you wanted and so requested with Model 25s and especially the later Mountain Guns.
I have a M1937 Brazilian Contract much like the one they show here. I had the internals overhauled for safety but still have them in a plastic bag in case a collector with the right offer comes
Really good editing this episode.
Searching for some history on my new old S&W 1917 from 1918 and hit the motherload. Glad to have found your channel and nicely done. Carry on!
Don't know how common they were in use, but the Prideaux speed loader for the Webley (positive ejection too!) would probably top any competition for speedy loading.
I once used a similar reloader in a Schofield. It worked great. Yes I think that would make it almost on level with magazine feed auto-loading handguns.
Thrifty with tax payers dollars, wouldn't know anything about that anymore indeed.
As long as it doesn't involve actually helping those worst off (as opposed to making money for corporations).
Practical product planning as far as military acquisitions are what he meant I am sure.
Hey! Foreign dictators need their gold plated toilets mister!
True story, my dad in Baghdad once saw them smashing hundreds of brand new, unused laptops with sledgehammers and tossing the debris into dumpsters because they were running Windows 7 instead of Windows 10 and the embassy wanted the newest operating system... Taxpayer dollars at work...Don't recycle them. Don't donate them. Smash 'em with a hammer and piss on the ashes. It's no wonder government NDA's are so fucking insane.
@@nimbly1693 pretty sure this series has shown even old US could fumble its military acquisitions (see krosiure) back then "thrifty" was just an excuse to shutdown progressive thinkers like teddy or labor unions. I suppose some things never really change
@@MrAirpumpkin I'm not even sure how much thrifty really came into, Americans and their politics were fairly different at the time. The idea of a large, skilled and well equipped standing army were kind of repugnant, and the opposite of the political ideas of the US since foundation (originally the idea of a large, federal standing army was considered to be against the values of democracy and likely to lead to a coup, but the state militia thing has repeatedly shown itself to be inefficient and incompetent). America entered both world wars with one of the most ill-equipped military in the world, although it left WW2 with one of the most advanced and well-funded, which it never really tuned down all the way. That all probably relates to what Eisenhower warned against, the military-industrial complex.
Spending money on some things is good for the economy, it creates jobs, pays people who in turn need goods and services which pays other people. But paying for new roads, education and healthcare improve the economy more directly than paying for something you don't need, like extra computers when you have decent old ones, or guns when you already have a surplus. The US is a weird country, lots of Americans hate socialism without knowing what it is, or that socialism is a big part of the military and the businesses that supply the military. Same people would pretty rarely criticize the American military though, might get called a commie for doing that.
I'd love to see a channel of this ilk dedicated to artillery pieces
Stephen I suppose you’d want Mae to demonstrate the firing of them, too?
Glad you kept the kerfuffle. Makes it more ‘human’
Big fan of Mae !
Congrats on the 200K guys! Very well deserved.
That branding was really well made and believable to me at least.
This is one of my bucket list guns, as a revolver lover
Hey Othias, I have a sub-5000 aerial number M1917 and it does have a debated cylinder and I have shot it without clips. BTW, I've had it at Michael's place and he, Marty and Bob have all seen it although I don't remember if we fired it that day.
Rebated cylinder. Damn autocorrect!
Nice mine is sub 10000, (well the frame is the cylinder is in the 13,000 range) and it's exactly like the one they have. Assuming your cylinder matches the frame, I am pretty sure the case for mine and the one C&Rsenal has is a modification someone did to allow it to shoot .45 LC because I was under the impression the early ones without a rebated cylinder were completely smooth through out the cylinder and the .45 acp cartridge would drop completely though the cylinder. Of course since they didn't even seem to have hard knowledge of ones without rebated cylinders even existing, my impression could be entirely based on nothing more then internet speculation and over 100 years of people gun shop talk who had no clue either
Mine also has the dished grips and the cylinder number matches the frame and barrel. It has the CHS stamp at the top corner above the latch.
I like your theory about a conversion to .45LC. That makes sense.
@@JasperFromMS Mine is the same with the CHS stamp and the dished grips, though sadly some one at some point carved what I assume was their initials into one of them. I have shot .45 LC through mine, and it works for the most part, though the firing pin really winds up leaving a really deep impact. Some loads the primer winds up being punctured. That said it may also be my firing pin is slightly out of spec since it hits the .45 acp rounds pretty deep too, though not as deep and I've never had a primer punctured.
Glad I found this channel. Subscribed. Really enjoyed the history and detailed information. Thanks!
This kind of reminds me of the the Renault Ft17 vs M1917 tank comparison. Lots of people think they are near carbon copies of each other. This is not the case. More so even than these revolvers. The m1917 tank wasn't a licensed copy, in a literal sense, it was more like a reverse engineered, Americanised, version. Its dementions are completely different. Not only because they expected US tankers to be taller ;) but they used the imperial system to construct them. Just take a photo of each one and compare side by side. The front geometry of the m1917 has more triangles ;), the exhaust pipes are on opposite sides, the running gear is altered etc. It's not as distinct from the Renault concept as the Italian Fiat but it's just about as different.
It's not said enough, the final clip of "war were declared" is early 20th century meme-ism at its best.
That was beautiful letterhead! I’ve never felt so good while being trolled.
I feel Ike 2:33 is a new record for “war were declared”
Until he starts an episode with *war were declared* before saying anything else.
Pedersen is about 2:14
Shaun Young Shit u rite, still a close second
C&rsenal after you make the episode on the m1911 could you follow it with the britsh martin Henry rifle. Also love the video keep up the good work.
Thats Indiana Jones primary revolver in the movies however it would change in the Trilogy:
Raiders of the Lost Ark: M1917 Smith & Wesson and Mark 2 Hand Ejector + Browning Hi-Power 1935/Canadian Model
Temple of Doom: Colt Offcial Police
Last Crusade and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: Webley WG Army Model
I recently purchased a Brazilian contract 1917, which would have been made about 1937 and it did not have a rebated chamber which I found very interesting. Someone suggested that it might have been fitted with an early cylinder during an armory refurbishment. I am adding an edit to ask a question about this. I have since traded off that 1917 for a different one with a chamber bored cylinder and a shortened barrel to 4 inches. But my question is about the early cylinder, I dropped in a .45 ACP round like you did and it drops in a considerable length. At the gun store when I got it, we dropped in a .45 Colt round and it chambers. Is the rim on the .45 Colt enough of a head space that it would safely fire the .45 Colt round? It would be handy having a revolver that would fire both and I know that Ruger is currently offering a Redawk that does this.
Love your videos. Are the Brazilian 1937 ones better in any way? Like stronger heat treat or deeper riflings? Ex. Thanks
An excellent video on an amazing S&W, thank you for sharing!
Can't wait for the Level 7 and Level 8 Thank!
We've got 7 prepped. Just giving our star a break before we film 8, he can be a fussy actor if he doesn't get his beauty sleep.
@@maewinchester2030 awesome! He must sleep a ton, because he sure is a beautiful man!
How nice is it to produce a show and be able to buy the ammo off the shelf at the local Walmart, instead of having to dig up unobtainium for a scant few shots?
not anymore :(
Hello Dr. Smith and Mr. Wesson. Nice to meet you.
More classic six guns. Gotta love it.
My favourite revolver of the war is definitely the Reichsrevolver.
Because man, who thought that was a good idea ever?
I have a S&W 1917 and Mae is right about the palm swell fitting the hand.
My grandfather brought home a 1917 from the great war and he had his bored through for 45 colt. Seeing he had a colt SAA already and ammo .
Thinking about it they just about perfected the revolver in the 1910s and the Autoloader was already starting to take over with the 1911.
Till I saw this, I didn't know the earliest Smith 1917s had bored-through chambers.
S&W M.1917 : Exists. Does nothing.
6-shot compact 1911 : Bursts into tears.
In wartime government requests too S&W were requirements. i.e. the government ordered S&W to share patents and how many pistols they were expected to produce
Oh heck yes i finally get to watch one of these on release!
An N frame in 30 Carbine? That would be awesome!
The problem with .30 Carbine in a revolver (Ruger Single action I know of, but I guess someone could make a swing out cylinder...) isn't the loading/unloading of ammunition as I am sure someone would come up with an efficient method eventually. BUT the MUZZLE BLAST is pretty intense with this round. Even with ear muffs it's just pretty unpleasant. Love the carbine, but in a revolver... not so much.
monkeyship74401 it sure can’t be as bad as something like .500 S&W Magnum. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Tom_500_nightfiring.jpg/800px-Tom_500_nightfiring.jpg
monkeyship74401 from the what I’ve heard, it basically in terms of ballistics, is basically equivalent to a .357 carbine. Also According to Wikipedia the Taurus raging 30 apparently is another .30 carbine revolver, while it additionally the AMT Automag III is a semiautomatic m1911 with slide mounted safety kinda thing.
@@baker90338 It looks like Taurus has way too many Discontinued Raging revolvers. I hadn't heard of the Raging .30. I'll bet it was a fun one.
I had one with postal markings
Glorious.
Great to see, the 1917, it was my first gun, my DAD GAVE ME ONE FOR MY 11 th BIRTHDAY with 2 moon clips. Great video.
John Allan Wow, you musta been big for your age! 😎
@@samiam619 Loved that gun, guess all kids remember their first gun, Now I carry a S&W MODEL 586-4" as mu duty weapon and a S&W MODEL 64-2" as my back up gun. Guess I stayed with S&W wheel guns my whole life.
A S&W 1917 in 30 Carbine would have been interesting.
I have a civilian .45 ACP Hand Ejector and while it has a nice, light trigger, it is a knuckle-buster for my average-large hands. A filler, like a Tyler T-Grip, should help correct that.
I love my Brazilian 1917 contract pistol. It is one i would not feel under guned with in most civilian situations
I hear you saying top breaks aren't as strong, which I can't argue with from a structural perspective, however what was the frequency of reported failures?
So , we’re any colts or S&Ws made in 45 colt that would fire 45auto with moon clips ? Best of both worlds.
i have really looked forward to this one
My first center fire handgun. It is really painful with the original wood grips. Sadly it passed the fire test in 1995.
I got to shoot one of these last year. The one big problem is .45 ACP and thin wood grips means recoil is a bit painful without gloves or replacement grips.
Interesting to see the difference in the cylinders of the two S&Ws you have, I have S&W #8961 and it has the shoulder to prevent the rounds from falling through.
The one he has may have had the chambers honed out to fire the older .45 Colt cartridges. I've seen (and fired) a S&W 1917 .45 Colt and that's what the owner said was done to it. The owner purchased the gun so chambered and stated he was told this by previous owner so I couldn't swear to it being so.
Good episode, thank you.
"Seacowgirl." Would that be another word for a Maenatee?
I see what you did there.
It's sea-cowgirl though, a cowgirl at sea, not a seacow that is a girl.
My body is ready
Please tell me you’ve got an episode covering the colt 1895 machine gun in the works.
I needs me some potato digger!
Gotta find one first.
I first learned about this gun in Medal of Honor Pacific Assault.
I have one of the 20,000 sent to Britain during ww2. The US ARMY marking on the bottom of the grip has been shaved and rounded off and the grip modified to match, making it more of a British style grip ala the Webley rg green revolver. Has British proof marks and was shipped or carried back to the US.
The best handgun of the war.
Almost near 200,000 subscribers great job
AKA way too many people haven't subscribed to this brilliant channel.
Man, that gun at 4:06 was REALLY rode hard and put out wet 😱
Hey Othais, I just picked up one of these guys today with a serial in the 5,000's range and it has the rebated cylinder. Maybe it was a fluke during manufacture on your example?
Aside from these and the Ruger Speed-six, what other revolvers use clips? I'm genuinely fascinated by why clip loading for revolvers didn't take off. Is it just that speed loading outpaced it or something? Just seems to me that it would make sense to ditch rimmed revolver cartridges where possible.
S&W Governor does, & you can use it with 1917 moon clips
Don't worried Mae, you are properly recognized as a Stellar Sea Cowboy.
19:06 There's your gun ASMR
Every entire episode is firearm ASMR for me. One of the best sleep channels I got (when I am not too engrossed in the episode). Othias's voice is oiled glass.