For Our Daughters: What Contributes to the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the Church
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- We aren’t going to fix the abuse crisis in the church until we deal with the underlying beliefs that actually enable abuse. Today Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins us to talk about her new documentary For Our Daughters, which shows how beliefs about gender, power and politics that are rampant in the church actually contribute to abuse. And Pastor Trey Ferguson joins us to comment on a recent article he wrote explaining how evangelicalism’s views of sex, which ignore intimacy, contribute to abuse too.
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THINGS MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST:
Kristin’s documentary For Our Daughters • FOR OUR DAUGHTERS Offi...
The website for the film: www.forourdaug...
Check out our Hazardous Materials stickers to go on your books!
sheilawraygreg...
Jesus and John Wayne: amzn.to/3BNIryA
Pastor Trey’s article on Reframing Sex: pastortrey05.s...
Trey Ferguson’s Online Church: theintentionch...
Trey Ferguson’s book Theologizin’ Bigger: amzn.to/3ZVYNiR
Andy Savage’s bio on his new church’s website: www.gracevalle...
My video about Andy Savage not returning to ministry • Why Andy Savage Is Not...
1 Tim 5:1b-2:" Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers and younger women as sisters...."
Paul's advice to a young pastor is not "treat women as the enemy" or "treat women as a temptation of the devil."
Yes...in the real world, men and women work side by side all the time. The emphasis these Pastors put on sex is deeply suspicious and dysfunctional. Thanks for calling these teachings as abnormal and not Christian at all.
When the Catholic abuses scandal broke, key issues were the system covering up, moving offending priests and religious to different places. There was a culture of treating the priest as a superior, and that people would not believe the victims. So that was endemic in enabling the abusers.
The Catholic uncovering was connected because it is a hierarchical denomination. One of the challenges in evangelical abuse situations is that it is often multiple independent churches and so the coverage stays local and they can move on.
Also that there is active teaching that grooms men into beliefs that they have no control etc. Any organisations with access to power and targets can be infiltrated by those who are already abusers. These days safeguarding measures and awareness makes us better at making it hard for them to shelter among us. But when a church culture and teaching can create abusers then there is also that systemic issue to disassemble. And your work and that of your many guests is crucial within that.
Great content and I love seen Trey being a great Christian man instead one of those arrogant, women hating "Christians". (I am convinced people like Joel Webbon are NOT saved.)
You commented on the mega church pastor pay. I am a Methodist Minister in UK. My income translates to $39k pre tax plus free housing. That puts me comfortably above the average pay in UK. But borderline for average household income.
I feel very flush (compared to childhood) though colleagues with non working spouse and children find it tight.
The mega church salaries you cite are about getting rich. Technically I am not paid a salary (for work done) but a stipend (to cover living costs so I can be a minister without another job). This means that most Methodist ministers in UK get the same amount, apart for some with added responsibilities in the denomination structure.
I look after 5 little churches in rural communities and get the same as a colleague with one church of 300 members. And the newest minister from college is the same as those with decades of experience.
My understanding is that the non mega churches in US are also at average pay for church leaders, and without a team of PAs. But like us doing our own admin, cutting out stuff for kids crafts etc.
Should Andy Savage should have stepped down or been fired? Did senior leaders encourage the congregation to immediately forgive without consequence, since it was long ago and he regreted his actions? We sing Amazing Grace by John Newton a former slave trader. Yes he was sorry. But did he make it right? We forgive and honour Newton but do we remember and honour the slaves he traded? The church has a history of remembering the forgiven (David) and not the victim (Bathsheba).
The 'restoration' issue for independent, or only loosely affiliated churches is that there is no denominational accountability. I could have my ordination revoked. And no Methodist Church in the conference or beyond would accept me.
But when men who self define as pastors and build up followings are forced to step aside, nothing stops them from restarting in a new place.
In UK we do have some independent, non denominational churches. But the majority are part of some denominational accountability.
When the extremists are not on the fringe, my question is who moved?
The west is definitely experiencing polarization. When I bring up the influence of fundie dogma on mainstream evangelical church to a lot of soft complementarian leaders, they’ll become very hedgy and dismiss it as “abuses of Scripture by fringe groups”. (In other words, “your concerns don’t apply here or to anyone we align with”.) … and they wonder why so many people are deconstructing.
Meanwhile there’s a parallel exodus of liberals leaving the left. In the words of Bill Maher, “I didn’t change-the left did.”
It lines up with what McCauley and Moskalenko discuss in their book, “Friction: how conflict radicalizes them and us”.
🤣have some dignity
Loving your country isn’t bad.
I agree, but Christian Nationalism isn't love, it's the pursuit of self-serving power in the name of faith and patriotism. It is built on a foundation of pride and self-righteousness, and it's based more on a mythology than on real history. The kind of love Christ modeled and which Paul spoke of in I Corinthians 13 doesn't seek to lord over others, it seeks to serve; it seeks what is best for others, not on what will bring earthly wealth, power, and glory. When Christ came to earth, He sought to build a new kingdom that would transcend time, space, and nationality, not to restore power and sovereignty to Israel, as many Jews were hoping for.
Believing that you are the only best country is more toxic than just loving your country.
Believing that you as a specific sub group in your country are called to rule over it, to the detriment of other citizens, is not loving your country but seeking theocratic tyranny. And Christian Nationalism is a clear example of that.
Patriotism - loving my country; cheering when we win international sports etc.
Nationalism - believing my country is better than yours
@@micahbush5397 Yep, people who buy into Christian Nationalism are just using God. They really don't get Christianity at all and tend to be the ones who read hierarchy and authority into the Ephesian verses, which are really about love and relationship. Sadly, there are a great many in our churches who don't understand Christianity.
I absolutely agree but think of it like parenting. A parent who actually loves their kid invests in their future, wants what’s best for their kid, and for their kid to grow to become the best version of themselves. People who say they love their country but turn a blind eye to the flaws, and deny when their country has messed up are like a permissive parent. If we truly love our country, we will do what we can to help our country grow and be the best it can be. unfortunately that is not the attitude we as a whole (in the US at least, obviously I don’t know what country you live in) have. We have become permissive, lazy parents and when someone points out the problems, we accuse them of hating our country and deflect and make them the problem and deny the issue, despite the evidence glaring at us, then wonder why our county isn’t where we want it to be. It isn’t until the problems become so big and affect us personally, we wake up and go “oh crap…”
Agreed. Love your country. Not believe it's superior or that God loves America more