Lactate Swim Test || 6x400
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- I plan to repeat this test every 8 weeks for the next year. We will update you every time we repeat the test. Feel free to do the test yourself if you would like.
Form Goggles: www.formswim.c...
Lactate Meter: www.novabiomed...
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Honestly you should simply learn & train the basics. 2:30 to 2:40 is horrible to watch. Most 14yo kids in my club swim better and faster than that. Considering they have probably les than half your muscle and heart capacity I think improving your technic is the best and probably only way to get a breaktrough.
A guy in his 30's in my club swim around 10k per week max and do only technical sessions. He swims 1:10/100m endurance. He does butterfly, swims drills, one arm crawl etc... He made 4th in his first Iron Man quebec 3 years ago. Swim is definetely different than running and cycling.
Simple opinion.
Im so hyped every time I see a Lionel video popping up on my main page!
Me too
Same come on Lionel World Champ 2024 unleash the lion 🦁
Hi Lionel, thank you for this excellent video. I believe there is a lot of very useful data to be gleaned from this session. 1. Your pace at lactate threshold (LT2) is 1:14-1:15, which is about 10 seconds per 100 slower than the fastest triathlon swimmers. I am guessing that you can bring this down to 1:10/1:11 within about 3 to 6 months once you get back to heavy swim training with Gerry. 2. Your maximum lactate production is quite low. Most fast swimmers would probably produce 6 to 12 mmol/l during an all out 400 swim. 4.5 mmol suggests that your anaerobic system is very underdeveloped and/or your current technique does not allow you to swim at speeds necessary to produce those numbers. High end swim speed is of course very important given how pro triathlon swims are often all out for the first 200 yards or so. I am sure Gerry has a plan for this as well. Good luck!
I think it’s normal to have an underdeveloped anaerobic system when doing long distance triathlon. Curious to know what you’d recommend to improve his swim pace.
Saying that, we all know swimming has been Lionel’s weak point (with all respect) for some time. It’s a tough one to improve too.
agree!
Long- and Middle Distance Triathletes are basiclly pure slow twitch (Type I) muscle fibre guys. No chance to produce high lactate levels.
@@richardmocnik6631 I can produce double digits on all three disciplines 👀 this weekend isn't looking good.
Even the best endurance swimmers have access to anaerobic speed and lactate typically well above 6-10 mmol when swimming flat out (
Might want to have a look at that leg kick 😉
Dude....Lactate doesn't matter unless you fix your stroke. 80% drills
Three decades ago when I was WAY into triathlon, 29 times racing in Kona, I had the good fortune to interact with several excellent swimmers. A Top collegiate swimmer, he could cruise at 1:00 per 100y, described a week long swim camp: Hours per day, technique only. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
@@gtkona1608 Yep...I made OT cuts as a teenager & swam at Indiana University in the 80's. (quit after a year cause I was winning $$ racing bikes) Freestyle wasn't my best stroke but I still could go 45 flat for 100 and 139 for a 200 and slip under 4;30 for 500. We swam 40-60K per week and during "hell weeks" we came close to 100k. More than 1/2 is technique and drills. technique is EVERYTHING
No clue how anyone uses those form goggles. Visibility is garbage! Like looking through two coke bottles. Worst goggles I’ve ever used
Agreed
This is intersting AF. You're now a pro TH-camr my friend. Keep this up and your going to get every age grouper nerding out on your channel.
I'm really enjoying these testing videos and am excited to see how things progress over the next 8 weeks. Will these results be used to dictate training or just to have a benchmark for comparisons?
Work on technique is much better than treating swimming as a fitness focus sports
Point the foot, lock the knees, hold legs closer together 😊
1:22 per hundreads yards with 104 hr 😂 mines higher than that going for a walk Lionel’s a beast 🦁
you need trechnique work not lactate testing
in my opinion that is not Lt2, but closer to LT1. LT2 usually is around 3,5-3,8
Keep up the good work mate! Stoked to see the analytical approach towards fitness gains!
Side note, I signed up for my first ever 70.3 ironman thanks to you. Would be awesome, if you could do a competition in South Africa one day.
More time wasted.
Use the stopwatch. Forget the lactate
Hmm, honestly looks like you measured LT1, not LT2....But would have been good to see a resting value and then maybe 1 extra "easy" value just to get the baseline set correctly.
Edit: just realized he was calculating Dmax, so technically that's neither LT1 or 2!
I noticed when you're breathing, your leading arm (on which your head should rest) is dropping way too much. It should stay in the extended position until your head is back in the water to reduce drag. Example: minute 2:36
And no, power is above the water,,,like hitting or spiking a volleyball, or even hitting a golf ball, lol you are being taught all wrong
Lots of drag and swimming with strength not technique.
I'm just starting out and swimming is by far my worst discipline. I have minimal experience running and no biking and swimming experience outside of my last two months of training. Watching these videos has definitely increased my drive to want to train harder and learn more about everything to improve my overall ability. Love these educational videos!
I know a guy who can help you get to another level.. take him as swim partner 👌🏼 and you’ll see the difference.
Body drag/ efficiency trying to overcome that buy swimming more?? Check the feet on the overhead ankles are locked toes pointing down drag drag
lactate is fitness. weak swimmers should focus on technique, its much more efficoent in terms of speed improvement.
This was absolutely fascinating and as someone who appreciates data and analysis of data sets, I was geeking out. But also incredibly interesting how much your Lactate jumped with a huge increase in effort without a lot of gain of speed. I love this because it only confirms how much swimming is so technical and important to create GOOD and STRONG Form from the very beginning before you can even talk about getting faster. Thanks for doing this!
The data looks great, very well-defined, very useful. The conclusion is spot-on, too. Practice technique, test every so often, get those curves moving to the right. I'm not sure why he talked so much about gathering data and not needing it since it is obviously needed.
It looks like technique could have a big impact. It looks quite laboured and heavy on his left side, which is stopping him ‘gliding’ through the water.
I’d love to see Lionel make good improvement in the swim. He’s able hit some big watts on the bike and has good run speed too. If he was able to come out near first in the swim, we’d be seeing him on that top step a lot more.
First few seconds I thought Lionel went fishing
You ever try keeping that air in the lungs a little long to maintain that buoyancy through your stroke? From under water shot looks like you expel the air (deflate your buoyancy balloons/lungs) too quickly.
His feet also turn out like giant anchors on his breath stroke
Yes I hope Lionel doesn’t think we are being Negative or be armchair coaches. I’m just trying to observe and if I can give feedback from things I’ve learned then hopefully it can help in some way. Love how he shares and is so transparent!!
I feel like the high elbow catch of Lionel is looking better !
Just going to say this,,,the elevation view says it all, the view where I am looking directly down on your stoke, kinda looks like a turtle, that's hurt, no glide at all, it's like this, you think wind tunnel is going to make you faster on the bike,,,well water is like way more finicky then wind, so you really need to find someone like me, because what you are practicing, is all wrong, the more you swim like this, the worst you will be, it's a golfer who's sing is off, no matter how much you practice, it must be correct, or it's a waste off time,
Just wondering what his next epiphany will be. Might be time to move to Andorra like a lot of young pros.
Why don’t you just swim more open water, if you feel you’re not fast enough in an open water race?
You are an inspiration, Lionel. Are you and your swim coach looking at your underwater catch and pull? Improving this component of you stroke will improve speed and efficiency, allowing you to swim faster with less effort.
Can you please explain how you come up with the comment "this explains why lactate is of very little value to a developing swimmer". It baffles me but I'm open to your input and knowledge here..... I've been lactate testing endurance athletes of ALL abilities for many years and (just as in cycling and running), high lactate levels at low performance outputs are indicative of under-developed aerobic systems. Low lactate at high outputs (like in your test) show under-development of the Anaerobic energy systems. So for age-groupers lactate testing is VITAL otherwise they just slog away in masters workouts never developing their base endurance (from training at constantly high lactate levels) and therefore never get faster. Through lactate testing "developing swimmers" learn to train more accurately. As @haucks rightly said, one of your limiters is a poorly developed anaerobic system that is limiting how well your "hybrid" metabolism is working in the water. I hope you train that correctly in the coming months. Best of luck.
How do you use this in your training, are you going to apply the know 80/20 Aerobe/Anaerobe training. So improve your slow muscle fiber and build a bigger aerobe zone, moving LT1 towards LT2?
When you re-test.
Will you factor in the fatigue and or freshness that you currently have?
I presume you will be ramping up the training and when test next will have additional load and fatigue?
Will this effect your baseline re__set?
Elite swimming for most age groupers… think about this swim data when you think of Lionel as someone who sucks at swimming.
Yes, it’s relative to pro’s…
But most people who watch probably think he is shit.
The last 400 being max effort
125bpm is your max hr or near too it ?!
Is the whoop accurate without a hr strap ?
Chill people … he is working on technique …He’s taking a baseline , working on technique then going to compare
Are there no 50 m pools ?
Great video and explanation of what you are doing on this set and future sets. You are more than welcome to come and swim with our Masters group if you are ever in the Charlotte, NC area.
This test distance was in yard, not meter, right?
Great video ! Thx for sharing. Would love a link to the d max formula
lt2 to 2 mmol? And what happens with lt1? Where is lt1?
I really do hope you go back to lactate training. The science is used by world professional cycling teams and some of the best runners, from middle distance to marathons and now triathlon and beyond for a very good scientific reason.
Its one part of the marginal gains at the pointy end of endurance sports!!
Great video. I'm starting to now believe that you'll make an excellent coach one day. Keep surrounding yourself with the best, and please keep listening.
Vlacmax y good test for Glucolitic power vs Aerobic power. Book Jan Olbrectch is good for this concepts, Nice Job LS, good luck in seasion 2024
Triathlon Inc has failed its athlete development...
The Norwegians have surpassed Tri Inc
M. SANDERS, Thanks for your video. Data are very important but efficiency comes with a properly technique. Because swimming is a technique activity. Yours is not good enough, you can do much better!!! I wish you the best, god bless you! Jeoffrey NIERDING triathlon coach since 1999.
Should you also be finding a threshold level while wearing a wetsuit? Otherwise training may not correlate with race pacing. Then again, you can’t train how swim drafting will affect your LT…
Dedicated triathlon coach. Been guessing for years. Guidance from one great coach is probably a good idea. Don’t reinvent the wheel, just improve the wheel. Time is ticking. I’m a big fan and wish the best for next year.
Gerry’s key principles are prioritised as tautness, alignment then propulsion.
It appears to me that as you work on your tautness, which will include ankle flexibility work, your tautness will naturally improve and then you will naturally move through the water at a greater velocity using the same energy.
As you state, knowing such data will if nothing else increase your belief in the process.
Thanks for sharing.
It would be great to also get Gerry’s input on camera [I did watch you on his Tower 26 podcast]
Nerdy question alert ! :-)
Since Swiming is such a technique heavy sport, do the same principals apply like run/bik with regards to these Lt1/2 zones when we are targeting development of different energy systems. Put differently the long easy rund rides are done to develop mitochondrial efficiency and capilary density. Do we also target this in the swim ??
Or are you, in the swim just looking at the Lactate as a measurable metric to test the efficiency of your technique.
You mentioned that you also wanted to find LT1 here Lionel. Did you actually do that? What is your resting lactate? I think you might have started to fast and already missed part of the curve to actually identify LT1, which should be at the first inflection point of the curve
Ok! Lionel Thanks for sharing. I see one issue that is going to be resolved. Lower half of your body is sinking to much. Please keep videoing under water so we can watch the improvements!!
hope you stick with it, make the tests to track progress and program your training... BLA testing is not useless, this just told to everyone that you have swim biomecanichal efficiency problem at hard efforts that limits you producing propulsion in same projection with your exerted effort... ofcourse for any one you basically just need timer and distance and do the pace per distance curve or power per duration curve to basically get the same outcomes of ones physiological status and sport spesific economics and thus make the plans to hone those sport spesific demands.... but its all for nothing if the testing is sprodiatic...
Well done Lionel for finally putting some real science behind your training and racing. This will pay huge dividends to you in 2024.
Fascinating! Should you reverse the order of the test? To rule out the possibility of cumulative lactate and stress.
Lionel, I have a question... how long is this process to becoming a front-pack swimmer.
Great video! You got me hyped for seeing the progress over your lactate in the next few months. That's kind of crazy, I never thought I would be so invested on someone else's training. It's very helpful to see the science behind this study. Keep up the good work ❤
If you get frustrated and want to go back out on your own, say these over in your head, "As an athlete you have to be coachable, and being coachable is a humbling thing."
Physique looks incredible!
Yea really needs to cut some body fat, all those off season slurpies 😂
LT1 IS AROUND 2 + OR - 0.5 AND LT2 IS AROUND 4 + OR - 0.5. I AM SUPRISE TO SEE LT2 AT 2 ON YOUR CHART ???
There are many interpretations of what LT1 and LT2 mean. But a common definition is LT1 is a measurable increasing over resting levels and LT2 is when lactate production will outpace lactate clearance and lactate will accumulate. For many people LT2 is around 4 mmol/l but not everyone and certainly not elite athletes. Different methods of interpretation are valid, but best is to use one method and stick to it for comparisons over time.
Really loving this content. Seeing this is not only motivating but extremely educational. Thank you!!!
More great content, really interesting and what you’re saying in the pool at the end makes total sense- this data is interesting but not crucial for developing swimmers.
Thanks Lionel. Besides being one of the most inspirational athletes, you are also producing the most interesting videos in the field. I am so eager to see you succeed.
Great Video :) thank you Lionel. Lots of love from Germany
Comparing pro endurance athlete to us mere mortals can be seen with his average HR
Thanks for still putting out content! Makes the off season a little more bearable as a fan of the sport not to mention these geeky insights are very interesting!
Looking more ripped than normal Lionel, looks like the healthy diets working
If u swim and 800 and a 1500 below LT do you stay below LT?
Really interesting video ! Thanks
interesting -- and, it seems, sound -- analysis on lactate on a developing swimmer. So the key is technique work?
Love this stuff!
Thanks for sharing. You got this Lionel
Dang Lionel you look shredded and ripped!!! How about a bud on your nutrition and hydration. Plus do you do any strength training as a part of your regular routine?
Oops how about a video on nutrition
Would be curious to see lactate levels if this 6x400 was done in reverse. Meaning do the faster set first, and then slower with each repeating 400.
or ... all 400s at aprox. same speed
Is there pontential of you getting faster?
More data if needed smart. Looking forward to next test
🤔pool
Gainzzzzz to be had! Go get ‘‘em Sir!
Thanks Lionel for sharing
hows your aero testing going?
Awesome video!
Great video!
OK - to keep banging on a drum: to swim in the ‘Ditlev’ pack in a PTO or 70.3 Chmapionship race you need to swim at that target pace in training - for long reps - consistently (ie. once a week). You have done this before - 1:15 minutes per 100M for 1500M (long course pool) back before covid.
You are correct - at this stage in the season physiological metrics are irrelevant (ie. I would NOT care if your lactate was 10, so long as you were hitting you pace marks because - as one of the fittest people on the planet - once your body adapts to the biometrics of swimming ‘fast’ (by Triathlon standards, which is still very very slow by swimming standards), your physiology will catch up rapidly.
Even at this early stage in the season, you could do a lot worse than incorporating the following session in to your weekly routine (this the the key session that turned Aussie Pro Chris Kemp into a 3rd pack - 27 minute swimmer - into a front pack - 23 minute swimming at 70.3 races a decade ago [and in only a matter of months]:
Main set: 8 x 100M on 1:15 pace (start off with a 2 minute /100M repeat cycle, but decrease this with increases in fitness over time]; 200M swim down; followed by
4 x 200M on 2:30 (so holding your target 1:15M/100M pace); 200M cool down; followed by
2 x 400M on 5 minutes.
Given that lactate test, you may well end to increase the interval time, or the recovery time between each of these three components that comprise the main set. But remember, this set is not about being ‘hard’ or ‘threshold’ (although it will hurt). This is about speed: sustained target race pace speed. Also do this session in a long course pool. I know there is one in your home town!
Jesus, his LT2 heart rate is significantly lower than my easy heart rate lol
where is this pool??
Gated community...private access.
Again.... too much talk.
Wow, Lionel seems a lot more grounded than he has in other recent videos. Refreshing.
No offence, but why not spend the time having swim lessons