Honestly, Louis suggesting that Naples go to Philip’s son Charles and Louis’s daughter Claude is actually a pretty smart move. I know that it won’t turn out like he hoped, since Charles doesn’t marry Claude, but props to Louis for thinking of a suggestion like this.
I don't know, I had a very wtf feeling while watching this scene. I was like what? Is he giving up Naples just like that, when he has a winning position? I mean, he is giving it all to Philip, and however he trusts Philip now, he is soon to be king of whole Spain, there's a good chance his preferences and loyalties will change a bit. Claude and Charles are still little children, a long time will pass until Claude and France could see anything of Naples. So, there's a good chance that Louis, Claude and France would see nothing of Naples anymore. Is it really the most he could make out of a quasi winning position in all southern Italy?
Lili1127 I totally agree. The suggestion did seem to come out of nowhere, but I see it like this. The first peace treaty, the Treaty of Granada, that both Louis and Ferdinand signed didn’t last long, with France breaching their agreements. Even though France was in a winning position of the war in Naples, who’s to say that Aragon wouldn’t do what France did and not stick to the agreements of a peace treaty? So, the suggestion of Naples going to Claude and Charles upon their marriage is a compromise of sorts, although I will admit that it does heavily favor Louis. And also, I love Louis, so I might be a little bit biased
Hm, I don't see how it heavily favors Louis. On the contrary. He is giving up Naples to the Habsburgs. Signing a peace treaty when he was winning already favours only Aragon because it gives them time to recover forces, send reinforcements (just like the Treaty of Granada gave Louis time). In such a winning position, there is two logical thing to do, in my opinion: go forward and quickly annihilate the Aragonese forces completely, or sign a peace treaty which heavily favours him, and him alone, not her daughter in some to-be future decades later. A treaty at least as good as the former ones, giving him most of the territories, the city of Naples, the crown as king of Naples, etc.
Lili1127 I could be wrong, but I said that it heavily favored Louis because he mentioned that until Claude and Charles were to be married, he (Louis) would control the north zone of Naples and Ferdinand would control the south. Burgundy is a vassal of France, and Charles is the heir to Burgundy, Castile, and Aragon; Claude is a Princess of France, and upon the death of her mother, heir to Brittany if I’m not mistaken. So with the union of Charles and Claude (which we know doesn’t happen), Louis probably sees it as France growing stronger with power, since Burgundy is a vassal of France, Brittany is technically under French rule, and assuming that Charles would retain a strong alliance with France. Then again I could be wrong about all of this 😂😂
Hm, I don't know. In such a winning position, I don't know why he is even willing to share anything. Such a treaty would be understandable in a very equal, stalemate position, not with him having so much advantage.
Never understood this move to be honest. If anything, one would think that the Hundred years war should've teached the Capets and their cadet houses that it is a bad idea letting vassals inherit foreign kingdoms.
Honestly, Louis suggesting that Naples go to Philip’s son Charles and Louis’s daughter Claude is actually a pretty smart move. I know that it won’t turn out like he hoped, since Charles doesn’t marry Claude, but props to Louis for thinking of a suggestion like this.
I don't know, I had a very wtf feeling while watching this scene. I was like what? Is he giving up Naples just like that, when he has a winning position? I mean, he is giving it all to Philip, and however he trusts Philip now, he is soon to be king of whole Spain, there's a good chance his preferences and loyalties will change a bit. Claude and Charles are still little children, a long time will pass until Claude and France could see anything of Naples. So, there's a good chance that Louis, Claude and France would see nothing of Naples anymore. Is it really the most he could make out of a quasi winning position in all southern Italy?
Lili1127 I totally agree. The suggestion did seem to come out of nowhere, but I see it like this. The first peace treaty, the Treaty of Granada, that both Louis and Ferdinand signed didn’t last long, with France breaching their agreements. Even though France was in a winning position of the war in Naples, who’s to say that Aragon wouldn’t do what France did and not stick to the agreements of a peace treaty? So, the suggestion of Naples going to Claude and Charles upon their marriage is a compromise of sorts, although I will admit that it does heavily favor Louis. And also, I love Louis, so I might be a little bit biased
Hm, I don't see how it heavily favors Louis. On the contrary. He is giving up Naples to the Habsburgs. Signing a peace treaty when he was winning already favours only Aragon because it gives them time to recover forces, send reinforcements (just like the Treaty of Granada gave Louis time). In such a winning position, there is two logical thing to do, in my opinion: go forward and quickly annihilate the Aragonese forces completely, or sign a peace treaty which heavily favours him, and him alone, not her daughter in some to-be future decades later. A treaty at least as good as the former ones, giving him most of the territories, the city of Naples, the crown as king of Naples, etc.
Lili1127 I could be wrong, but I said that it heavily favored Louis because he mentioned that until Claude and Charles were to be married, he (Louis) would control the north zone of Naples and Ferdinand would control the south. Burgundy is a vassal of France, and Charles is the heir to Burgundy, Castile, and Aragon; Claude is a Princess of France, and upon the death of her mother, heir to Brittany if I’m not mistaken. So with the union of Charles and Claude (which we know doesn’t happen), Louis probably sees it as France growing stronger with power, since Burgundy is a vassal of France, Brittany is technically under French rule, and assuming that Charles would retain a strong alliance with France.
Then again I could be wrong about all of this 😂😂
Hm, I don't know. In such a winning position, I don't know why he is even willing to share anything. Such a treaty would be understandable in a very equal, stalemate position, not with him having so much advantage.
Never understood this move to be honest. If anything, one would think that the Hundred years war should've teached the Capets and their cadet houses that it is a bad idea letting vassals inherit foreign kingdoms.