Such a pleasure to listen to Shakil Saab....He is such an authority on the India Pakistan history and he does so in such a fluid and articulate manner......I wish we Indians get a chance to see him and hear him in person....I would happily pay to listen to him!
A session like this in any college of India would have brought in hundreds of students and listeners, with a jam packed hall. Sad to see how this has been received in Pakistan
It's indeed commendable to see these two learned, honest and sincere gentlemen engaged into such an important discussion. It is equally sad that such a scarce attendance. However, those in attendance, too, have my appreciation and thumbs up. All great events have a small beginning. Good luck to all.
👏👏an excellent discussion led by Dr Chaudhary and Dr Nayyar. such open debates add to the credibility of 'the black hole' for its ability identify sensitive but crucial subjects and experts to present their views to the public.
can someone explain how did Jinnah a liberal lawyer educated in western university who enjoyed cigar, whiskey and eating pork decided to create Islamic republic of Pakistan based on Islam
Really appreciate you all intellectual Assets like two seniors but i am also disappointed that only few people are there.i am from prayagraj, india learnt alot through valuable discussion.🙏🙏💐💐
Pakistan will never become a sensible country unless the story of the 1971 massacre of East Pakistan by Pakistan army forces is told in history books in their school and colleges. Facts are many but the truth is that Bangladesh hasn't forgotten 1971.😭
It's surprising because in INDIA it is the opposite. Infact in our school textbooks Mughal Era has been glorified more and Akbar is called THE GREAT. and Mughal Era is called "MUGHAL E AZAM. There is a mention of Hindu Kings too but not to the same glorified level as Mughal era. The main reason must be that after Independence 1947, our four or five continuous EDUCATION MINISTERS WERE MUSLIMS....So for good 25 to 30;years our national education ministers were MUSLIMS
It is refreshing to see that some efforts are being made on introspection and speaking the truth about the history of Pakistan . You have to have more such discussions and more people have to join in the audience .A Pakistan wilh right sense of history is a precondition for the development
Shakhil Sir,, I want to add one thing to your views..Its not only the educational institutions to impart the quality education but environment should be their in home and surrounding to get the real facts They are isolated based on religious and adopted what is suitable to them at that time ,,irony that they are still continuing it for generations
There is no such thing as "real" history. It is just an anecdotal account written by victors and scholars, and every nation manipulates it to suit its narrative. The only utility of history is to invoke a sentiment of national cohesion. But Pakistanis, continuing their legacy of polluting everything from religion to science, are using history as a weapon against their own existence, and are deluded into thinking that truth is the answer to everything when Machiavellian politics dominates everywhere else.
Are you out of yours? we need to identify our own shortcomings and work on them. it is great for our psychology that some folks accept their wrongs but we also have to correct ours and work better. We have a lot of work to do.
Whenever I watch your programme I feel that I am attending an academic program in the university campus. I am a retired professor of Botany and during my service of 35 years I had organised number of National and International conferences, symposia so I am quite used to such programs. From the bottom of my heart I appreciate your programme and the platform. Sometimes I wonder when Pakistan has such talented academicians why pakistan is failing on all fronts. When I try to find the answer to this question I came to conclusion that fanaticism and extreme religious attitude is the cause of all this. Though I donot fully understand urdu but since it is closer to hindi I can understand most of the meaning. If you can open your discussion live to the world many people ,ofcourse academics can participate in it.
One reason for the empty chairs is that such beautiful discussions happen every 2 or 3 days. Also the fact that there are few persons interested in opening even the first page of the book of true history.
More Pakistani should go through such sessions .. I am hope full they will do best as India is doing as they were the part of India so talent is same only guidance is needed
Why the hall is not crowded? If this will held in India people will rush early to get seat but in pakistan not 30 people are interested. May God bless jhahils country
Jinnah was politically over ambitious person and not at all religious. Just become leader of Muslims. He took advantage of elite class of Muslims who worried about their property and helped him to separate Pakistan from India. Because of his poor vision today his followers reached to baggers like situation
شکیل اور نیر صاحب کا شکریہ۔ میرے مطابق پاکستان کے بڑے مورخ ڈاکٹر مبارک علی کا تذکرہ یہاں پر ضرور ھونا چاھئے تھا۔اس نے پاکستان میں بلاتعصب، نفرت اور دیانت دارانہ تاریخ پڑھانے کے حوالے سے درجنوں کتابیں اردو زبان میں لکھی ہے، تاریخ کو کس طرح دوبارہ لکھی جائے، تاریخ اور تاریخی نظریات، تاریخ اور عورت، تاریخ اور عوام وغیرہ۔
I have read pakistan studies via digital books just for curiosity and trust me it was completely garbage full of non sense things and more like plot less bollywood movie. The whole book was written on groud of Hindu vs Muslim plot.
You would think common sense would prevail in Pakistan. If India was so hiinduphobic, why are they so many successful businessmen, actors, national heroes Muslim ? And Muslim population growing vigorously. Any one with a logical brain should realize this contradiction.
The concept of Akhand Bharat is always misconceived by Pakistani people. Shakil Saheb is partly correct. The idea of Akhand Bharat is concept of cultural cohesion and friendship among the nations of Indian subcontinent. It is not an expanist ambition.
It's funny that Pakistan is always trying to forget it's own identity. Babar, Ghori, and their ilk were not from the subcontinent or pre 47 India. They were invaders. Pakistanis do not share a bloodline with them. 99% of Pakistanis were converted at some point of time from Hinduism. This truth is unpalatable to Pakistanis. This will be their downfall
Necessary Baby steps towords reality to get out of Blackhole. But damage is TOO big and will take more than 50 years for a complete change in these troubling times Pakistan is in due to faults of corrupt leadership.
Pakistan was made by North Indian powerful Muslims. Urdu unhone hi impos ki thi pakistan me Sindhi and Punjabi Muslims to apni juban ko aaj likh or padh bhi nahi sakte, unko bhi wo log Arabic script me likhte h.
Pakistan is still living in 1947. World and India has moved on from those horrible days of the partition but for these people across the border there's no closure.
Sir, the Arab religion came to Indian subcontinent with the sole purpose of religious conversion with the help of swords 1200 years ago. Once this is understood some current dilemmas may fade away.
Delighted to see Shakil Chaudhary ji. People of Pakistan need to move on from partition every news item in every media is about partition, how Jinna saved muslims from evil Hindus. You guys need to get a life
Wonder why we don't see many comments by Pakistanis/Muslims in such debates. Everyone one is interested to read views of Pakistanis on the subject under discussions. Also such a low attendance in debates.
Half of the auditorium empty...and masajid n Madrasas full..... This is present situation... What will happen in future? Wake up and save your country..
When I went to Britain for research I came across a number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi students and I was surprised to know that they do not know about either Jaliwanwala Bagh massacre or Bengal famine of 1943 or Direct action days killings in Calcutta in 1946.
the biggest problem after days of dependence was that our text of history or mutala Pakistan, Was known as history which was based on other nations' history .i think in 19 86 what I had read in metric
Dealing with the the trauma four centuries of of colonisation was easy but we are still dealing with the trauma of partition. The greatest crime in history.
Within 13 hours this vlog got more then 24000 views and still many of you are arguing about the attendance and importance of this topic. I believe we should not doubt the reasons of many people
Jinnah was very wise that's why he made Pakistan. Since his grandfather was Hindu and the community Thakkar from Jinnah belonged and he faced conversession pain from own community.
I am re-watching this podcast. I thought I'd see it again. At 15:00 min mark you recommend reading the JN Mandal resignation letter, I thought might as well read it. Unfortunate to say I couldn't finish it. The picture it paints is so harrowing that I had to stop for the sake of my sanity. Everyone should read it. Specially if you're a hindu. And be thankful that you were born in India.
The empty chairs show the level of education in Pakistan. Had it been the great madarsa oxford chap giving a lecture, it would have caused a flutter to listen to him.
Thanks To Jinnah. Pakistan bana ke hum Indian ke sath bahut acha kiya
Feel very sad to see that so few people of Pakistan are attending to such an important issue.
Such a pleasure to listen to Shakil Saab....He is such an authority on the India Pakistan history and he does so in such a fluid and articulate manner......I wish we Indians get a chance to see him and hear him in person....I would happily pay to listen to him!
Thanks for a civilized comment. Otherwise I think most other comments have been made not to add value but to spew hatred
A session like this in any college of India would have brought in hundreds of students and listeners, with a jam packed hall. Sad to see how this has been received in Pakistan
The poor attendance is due to radicalization of population. They don’t want to revisit history.
If a debate like this was done in India the hall would have been full an hour before the start .
Good to see handful people who really want to know the real history of IDEA OF PAKISTAN.
Shakil Chaudhary and Dr. A. H. Nayyar, thank you for the insight on the history lesson! Much appreciated, love and respect from Bharath.
It's indeed commendable to see these two learned, honest and sincere gentlemen engaged into such an important discussion. It is equally sad that such a scarce attendance. However, those in attendance, too, have my appreciation and thumbs up. All great events have a small beginning. Good luck to all.
The society which doesn't give importance to their history goes down to their graveyard.
Such meetings must be organised in future
👏👏an excellent discussion led by Dr Chaudhary and Dr Nayyar. such open debates add to the credibility of 'the black hole' for its ability identify sensitive but crucial subjects and experts to present their views to the public.
Hopefully such kind of initiative would impact and people would tend to think differently.
can someone explain how did Jinnah a liberal lawyer educated in western university who enjoyed cigar, whiskey and eating pork decided to create Islamic republic of Pakistan based on Islam
Really appreciate you all intellectual Assets like two seniors but i am also disappointed that only few people are there.i am from prayagraj, india learnt alot through valuable discussion.🙏🙏💐💐
Shakil Chaudhary saheb 👍🇮🇳🇮🇳
Talking about true history will soon be outlawed in Pakistan. It’ll be equivalent to blasphemy.
Pakistan will never become a sensible country unless the story of the 1971 massacre of East Pakistan by Pakistan army forces is told in history books in their school and colleges. Facts are many but the truth is that Bangladesh hasn't forgotten 1971.😭
It's surprising because in INDIA it is the opposite. Infact in our school textbooks Mughal Era has been glorified more and Akbar is called THE GREAT. and Mughal Era is called "MUGHAL E AZAM.
There is a mention of Hindu Kings too but not to the same glorified level as Mughal era.
The main reason must be that after Independence 1947, our four or five continuous EDUCATION MINISTERS WERE MUSLIMS....So for good 25 to 30;years our national education ministers were MUSLIMS
Excellent Talk. Thanks to Dr Nayyar and Mr Shakil.
Sad to see 20 people in such a class and can imagine feature of Pakistan from here.
It is refreshing to see that some efforts are being made on introspection and speaking the truth about the history of Pakistan . You have to have more such discussions and more people have to join in the audience .A Pakistan wilh right sense of history is a precondition for the development
Regards to Shakil Saheb.🙏🙏🙏🙏
Shakhil Sir,, I want to add one thing to your views..Its not only the educational institutions to impart the quality education but environment should be their in home and surrounding to get the real facts
They are isolated based on religious and adopted what is suitable to them at that time ,,irony that they are still continuing it for generations
The society that doesn't respect it's history is doomed to disaster. You will know who you are and know who your ancestors were.
Good session but attendance? Love from India
Big fan shakil sab Respect from California 🙏🙏🇺🇸🇺🇸
I hope these 21 people can digest the real history and are out of their IDENTITY CRISIS.
There is no such thing as "real" history. It is just an anecdotal account written by victors and scholars, and every nation manipulates it to suit its narrative. The only utility of history is to invoke a sentiment of national cohesion. But Pakistanis, continuing their legacy of polluting everything from religion to science, are using history as a weapon against their own existence, and are deluded into thinking that truth is the answer to everything when Machiavellian politics dominates everywhere else.
Are you out of yours? we need to identify our own shortcomings and work on them. it is great for our psychology that some folks accept their wrongs but we also have to correct ours and work better. We have a lot of work to do.
Whenever I watch your programme I feel that I am attending an academic program in the university campus. I am a retired professor of Botany and during my service of 35 years I had organised number of National and International conferences, symposia so I am quite used to such programs. From the bottom of my heart I appreciate your programme and the platform. Sometimes I wonder when Pakistan has such talented academicians why pakistan is failing on all fronts. When I try to find the answer to this question I came to conclusion that fanaticism and extreme religious attitude is the cause of all this. Though I donot fully understand urdu but since it is closer to hindi I can understand most of the meaning. If you can open your discussion live to the world many people ,ofcourse academics can participate in it.
good conversation ,we should see righteous history but we should get the goals at humanity grounds not dulls and duffers rules.
Shakil Chaudhary saheb 👍🇮🇳🇮🇳🚩🚩🚩
One reason for the empty chairs is that such beautiful discussions happen every 2 or 3 days. Also the fact that there are few persons interested in opening even the first page of the book of true history.
The lady expressed the most logical approach towards history.
More Pakistani should go through such sessions ..
I am hope full they will do best as India is doing as they were the part of India so talent is same only guidance is needed
Why the hall is not crowded? If this will held in India people will rush early to get seat but in pakistan not 30 people are interested. May God bless jhahils country
Please grow up and come out of your hatred and comment in a civilized manner.
Top notch discussion. Pakistan is exhibit A in terms of how not to mess with history.
We need more Shakil sahebs on both sides of the borders. Very sad there are few peoples (and negligible women) in the lecture hall.
We are coming close to finishing quarter of 21st century and Pakistanis are still questioning the relevance and need of science. Great!!
Amazed at the depth of questions during question answer session. A simulating discussion indeed!
Jinnah was politically over ambitious person and not at all religious. Just become leader of Muslims. He took advantage of elite class of Muslims who worried about their property and helped him to separate Pakistan from India. Because of his poor vision today his followers reached to baggers like situation
It is delight to listen to Sakil saheb.
Excellent discussion.
شکیل اور نیر صاحب کا شکریہ۔ میرے مطابق پاکستان کے بڑے مورخ ڈاکٹر مبارک علی کا تذکرہ یہاں پر ضرور ھونا چاھئے تھا۔اس نے پاکستان میں بلاتعصب، نفرت اور دیانت دارانہ تاریخ پڑھانے کے حوالے سے درجنوں کتابیں اردو زبان میں لکھی ہے، تاریخ کو کس طرح دوبارہ لکھی جائے، تاریخ اور تاریخی نظریات، تاریخ اور عورت، تاریخ اور عوام وغیرہ۔
For Shakeel Sahab❤
I have read pakistan studies via digital books just for curiosity and trust me it was completely garbage full of non sense things and more like plot less bollywood movie. The whole book was written on groud of Hindu vs Muslim plot.
Such an informative platform and why such low views and likes .
Very less people attend for Very important Topic
It was a very interesting discussion.
Shakil sahib is a prolific reader. His analysis is not based on his own ideas but based on writings in the books on history .
Did anybody watched the guy trying to hide his smile🤭🤭🤭 with so much effort😂😂😂😂??
Less than 2 dozen people attending. That it self says a lot.
Really bad for such a poor attendance and Tables and Chairs cannot ask questions or implement suggestions
wooow. 2 giants in 1 frame ❤
The best poetry, drama and serious talk occurs in nations where the citizens are suffocated and imprisoned and helpless.
You would think common sense would prevail in Pakistan. If India was so hiinduphobic, why are they so many successful businessmen, actors, national heroes Muslim ? And Muslim population growing vigorously. Any one with a logical brain should realize this contradiction.
The concept of Akhand Bharat is always misconceived by Pakistani people. Shakil Saheb is partly correct. The idea of Akhand Bharat is concept of cultural cohesion and friendship among the nations of Indian subcontinent. It is not an expanist ambition.
It's funny that Pakistan is always trying to forget it's own identity. Babar, Ghori, and their ilk were not from the subcontinent or pre 47 India. They were invaders. Pakistanis do not share a bloodline with them. 99% of Pakistanis were converted at some point of time from Hinduism. This truth is unpalatable to Pakistanis. This will be their downfall
All Indian🇮🇳 viewers... And maximum chairs of audience empty.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The question should be, what's right??
Audience dekh ker he pata chalta hi ki Pakistani apne history k leye ketne serious hi.
I hope gallery will be full in future if such topics arise again.
Mja aa gya sir great work
ayesha jalal is another historian who wants to make hindu as a villian
My god the hall looks so depressing😢
History should also mention the oppersion on Christian minorities in a Pakistan and why we dont allow Pakistani Christian presidents
Biggest history of pakistan, afganistan, bangladesh is surrender before mughals and converted.
Do a show on minority status in Pakistan
That's all the SENSIBLE PEOPLE LEFT OUT OF 24 crs.
We in India study Delhi sultanate, Mughal, Europe, World etc
dis appointed by the lack of crowd for this forum ,
Its hurt there is less specteter watching of two interlectutal discussion i am Indian but i am happy watching this program i know Pakistani are jihadi
Pakistanis don't want to face the facts... Only believe in JAZBHAAA....😂😂😂
Necessary Baby steps towords reality to get out of Blackhole.
But damage is TOO big and will take more than 50 years for a complete change in these troubling times Pakistan is in due to faults of corrupt leadership.
Pakistan was made by North Indian powerful Muslims. Urdu unhone hi impos ki thi pakistan me Sindhi and Punjabi Muslims to apni juban ko aaj likh or padh bhi nahi sakte, unko bhi wo log Arabic script me likhte h.
I watch full video 1 AM TO 2:35
APP logo ne apni orignol history pr baat hi nhi ki 😮
Pakistan is still living in 1947. World and India has moved on from those horrible days of the partition but for these people across the border there's no closure.
So few in the hall tells you the story as well.
"Only thing we can learn from history is that we don't learn anything from history". Hegel, German Philosopher.
Shakil Sir very good job Sir
Sir, the Arab religion came to Indian subcontinent with the sole purpose of religious conversion with the help of swords 1200 years ago. Once this is understood some current dilemmas may fade away.
❤
Shakil sb has not mentioned about Allama's demand for Autonomous State
Delighted to see Shakil Chaudhary ji. People of Pakistan need to move on from partition every news item in every media is about partition, how Jinna saved muslims from evil Hindus. You guys need to get a life
Wonder why we don't see many comments by Pakistanis/Muslims in such debates. Everyone one is interested to read views of Pakistanis on the subject under discussions. Also such a low attendance in debates.
Half of the auditorium empty...and masajid n Madrasas full.....
This is present situation...
What will happen in future?
Wake up and save your country..
Edmund Burke those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it
When I went to Britain for research I came across a number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi students and I was surprised to know that they do not know about either Jaliwanwala Bagh massacre or Bengal famine of 1943 or Direct action days killings in Calcutta in 1946.
the biggest problem after days of dependence was that our text of history or mutala Pakistan, Was known as history which was based on other nations' history .i think in 19 86 what I had read in metric
Dealing with the the trauma four centuries of of colonisation was easy but we are still dealing with the trauma of partition. The greatest crime in history.
Within 13 hours this vlog got more then 24000 views and still many of you are arguing about the attendance and importance of this topic. I believe we should not doubt the reasons of many people
Jinnah was very wise that's why he made Pakistan. Since his grandfather was Hindu and the community Thakkar from Jinnah belonged and he faced conversession pain from own community.
Pakistan m Jinnah pr PhD krna ban hai... this tells everything.
Shakeel sahab 🙏👍
History is the achilles heel for Islam aka muslims for not pak but also all muslim countries.
Shakil Sir
Same dress - fourth podcast
Excellent discussion
Why so poor attendance.
It's a small start to correct history teachings in Pakistan. Knowing Truth is the only way for Pakistan to get out of the mess they are in.
Seriously 10 log hai sirf audience me.
I am re-watching this podcast. I thought I'd see it again. At 15:00 min mark you recommend reading the JN Mandal resignation letter, I thought might as well read it.
Unfortunate to say I couldn't finish it. The picture it paints is so harrowing that I had to stop for the sake of my sanity. Everyone should read it. Specially if you're a hindu. And be thankful that you were born in India.
The empty chairs show the level of education in Pakistan.
Had it been the great madarsa oxford chap giving a lecture, it would have caused a flutter to listen to him.