Did Pakistan exist before 1947? Then how did Pakistan got independence? I am bewildered as to why even the so called enlightened of PK don't tell their students that Pakistan was 'created' in 1947 whereas India got independence!
Whether Jinna and Muslim League had taken any part in freedom struggle? Answer is no. They were creating obstacle in freedom struggle. He was playing in hand of Britishers.
The Mid day meal programme was started by K Kamaraj, CM of Madras state( now Tamil Nadu) in 1956-57. Kamaraj himself was a school dropout at the age of 11
(1)From India listening Hudbuoy sir's deliberations . Thank you sir and saddened that we missed you because of 1947.(2) Sir , After 1857 revolt, British tried to create Hindu Muslim difference as both the communities faught together against British. Bahadur sah was declared Emperor of free india by Hindu Muslim participants of the revolt together without any hesitation. I am surprised to note that 1857 revolt is not discussed in Pakistan whereas in India , it is considered as first freedom struggle of India.
STOP COMPARING INDIA WITH PAKISTAN JUST STOP PLEASE 🙏🏻, there is no comparison. India is much bigger than Pakistan in many ways so same rules don't apply! Please 🙏🏻
After religious constitution Pakistan 2nd problem is management and administration,Pakistan does not have basic pillars for the state, but we have basic pillars of Islam in the syllabus
16:12 correction Muslim were not ruling India, it was Marathas who ruled India and British defeated Marathas to govern India. Mugal kings were just for name sake a celebratory position and they governed UpTo palam part of Delhi.
We stand before 1947 . Even before 1947 situation was better. Pakistan is the only country which regress not progress anymore. The worst regression is societical, moral and not only governmental but economical and more than that judicial and corrupt mindset in all spheres of life
16.27 ..the lady guest says Mughals/ Bahadur Shah Jaffar was ruling all over India.. actually most of the part of United India was ruled by Marathas and Sikhs .. British defeated them till 1850s and became Rulers... Bahadur Shah Jaffar's defeat was the last straw on the Camels back...
In Delhi as well as in other major cities in India we need an Institute like Black Hole. Quality discussion. Enriched. Nasreen Azhar spoke also very well. Thanks from India.
Hudbhoy sir, you might be aware that when Bharatiya Janta Party was established in 1980 after split of Janta Party, one of its pioneers was Sikandar Bakht from Chandni chowk Delhi. Others were AB Bajpayee, LK Adwani and MM Joshi..
its a beacon of hope for Pakistan if this honest analsis spreads and becomes part of popular discourse;better late than never. This is self reflection at the best!Indians also need to do similar analysis for all our failings and there are many despite all known successes.
They don’t have anyone other than jogindernath mandal, we in india have a whole lineup of muslim ministers. Yet they have audacity to say udhar musalmano k saath kya ho raha hai.
I have been watching the ' Black hole ' program recently. I am impressed by the discussion. But it's saddening to see very few attending these programs physically. After 76 years of independence of Pakistan and the condition in which they are today I expect to see such programs be taken by storm! Being an Indian and BJP supporter I want to see Pakistan progress.
It's good to see Pakistani talking about their biggest problem. That is their army. It shocked me to hear about their wealth. And how Pakistani can't talk about them.
Hudhbhoy sir can you imagine our parents never hesitate to sell their house for education of their children? We just switch off our TVs and stop participating in any social gathering and dinners during two years of 11th and 12th standards of our children
1:32:47 Kashmir has attracted 12 million tourists till date during this year. This is in addition to those who visited Jammu and Ladakh. Definitely not a garrison area.
Important point missed - The real reason for partitiion was the rich muslim landlords of U.P wanted a safe haven for their wealth.. they conviniently used religion as a tool
Until religion is made 100% personal affair constrained to within homes. Until the state and religion are separated, NO HOPE FOR PAKISTAN. I am sorry for saying the plain truth, but i care enough for common Pakistanis to not hold back real and complete reality. Lets keep the hope alive.
Its true that India has had many insurgency movements but they didn't talk how they were solved. The North-East is a classic example. All groups who put down their arms were not jailed but allowed to run for local and state elections. Many Article 370 type laws were passed to preserve local culture and give autonomy. Newest example is Bodos where an autonomous region Bodoland has been created within Assam. The Naxal insurgency in Central India is nearly dead
Respected panelist, I admire you all four. One thing I would like to bring to your notice. Just introspect that if some group come to seek your help to fight a bigger enemy than yourself. That group will talk to more younger, militant person than wiser, experienced person.
76 Years - and where does PK stand?? Sadly, it stands deep in the doo-doo - with seemingly no visible way out. And that is because the powers that be still do not feel the need or compulsion to make any visible and long standing changes to their assumptions and thinking. Partition mubarak ho!!!
Hudhbhoy sir bluntly told we are not independent. In this context I just remembered a dialogue from loose talk of Anwar Maqsood, when Moin tells " Azadi aap ko 14th August 1947 ko de di gayi thi ab agar aap ko roz roz azadi chahiye to vo nahin Milegi....what a real description!!
I feel sorry why the audience is so less. This is wonderful program and should be held in big auditorium. Really sad that only handful youngsters are there
Result of Second Anglo Maratha War The Scindias signed the Treaty of Surji-Anjangaon in 1803 through which the British got the territories of Rohtak, Ganga-Yamuna Doab, Gurgaon, 🇮🇳Delhi 🇮🇳 Agra region, Broach, some districts in Gujarat, parts of Bundelkhand and Ahmadnagar fort.
Do not insult jinnah, he firmly believed Hindus & muslims cannot live together, u must take all Indian muslims in Pakistan so that they can enjoy unadulterated genuine authentic Islam why they should be deprived of Islam
The big question remains; How do we persuade the army to give up its interference in governance and to accept civilian supremacy? Are we ready to make personal sacrifices to confront the army through organised public agitation?
Parvez saheb forgotten that Takshila and Nalanda Universiries was there from 4000 to 5000 years and it was for all not only for brahmins, he dies not have actual knowledge of Indian system
After 76yrs, ASKING as to where Do Pak Stand ?? Baffles Me ! Indicates you don't know yet, weather you are coming or Going ? Rest assured asking the same in 2047 too.!! Dr. H'Boy . Possible comparative scenario example of Athens Vs Milos to Pak(Athens) Vs India (Milos) would be scholarly enlightening keep on trucking!! 😳🙏
Even these intellectuals of Pakistan can not give the kid an honest answer? Hoodbhoy conveniently forgot to mention that Aurangzeb imposed Jizya on Hindus. Sikh religion became a combatant religion because the Mughal emperors tortured and killed the Sikh gurus and their children. Countless temples were destroyed, including the holiest temple in Varanasi by Muslim invaders and rulers. The short answer is that there was never peace between Muslims and Hindus because of the exclusivist nature of Islam. It was an uneasy truce at best, necessitated because the Muslims wanted to rule a hindu majority country. Hoodbhoy is giving BS when he says that people did not even know their religion until the British census.
When you go back to the partition you will find parity was central to the notion that Pakistan was equal to India, if not more than equal - a limpet that couldn't be shaken off. Today it struggles to accept the reality of its position; one that has shrunk to less than a fraction of India's.
Dr. Hoodbhoy Why worry about population . More pakistani means more migration to foreign countries and this will help devlop many islamic pakistans worldwide . One day sheria laws will come and entire world will be Islam. The purpose of creating Pakistan will be achieved. So enjoy population growth ,this will prove most exportable item.
In Islam we stand number 1, I do not know where Pakistan stands lolz ,moulana Gen zia modeed aur bhutto islamic mullah zindabad,welcome to 1973 islamic Pakistan.
I wouldn’t worry about 25 million stunted kids growing up in Pakistan. Their future is bright in the military, civil service and judiciary and yes don’t forget about politics of course.
Some time I pity Pakistan for being into hands of greedy politicians and highly selfish army who have looted Pakistan .and above all religious biggotery has added to the misery. May God bless them
people are talking about IITs. They are not talking about IISERs. These are new model of science education institutes focused on inter-disciplinary teaching and research.
Pakistani koum world's best iSi intelligence World's best Pakistani jazba world's best Pakistani fouj World's best Pakistani religion world's best ____________ filling blanks...
Yes, India too has poor people. But ALL OF THEM are getting Free Ration, Free Housing, Free Cooking Gas and Free Health insurance upto Indian Rupees 5 Lacs annually.
Hoodbhoy is saying that Athenians were invading fighters but what we had learned that Aristotle Pluto Socrates all were of Athens and was an intellectual society. Their neighbor Sparta were fighters
Did Pakistan exist before 1947? Then how did Pakistan got independence? I am bewildered as to why even the so called enlightened of PK don't tell their students that Pakistan was 'created' in 1947 whereas India got independence!
Whether Jinna and Muslim League had taken any part in freedom struggle? Answer is no. They were creating obstacle in freedom struggle. He was playing in hand of Britishers.
The Mid day meal programme was started by K Kamaraj, CM of Madras state( now Tamil Nadu) in 1956-57. Kamaraj himself was a school dropout at the age of 11
God protect Pervez Hudbuoy saab and all others who speak the Truth in Paxtan
One correction- 14th of August aapka day of birth hai, hamara 15th of August day of independence from the British hai! 🙏 🇮🇳
(1)From India listening Hudbuoy sir's deliberations . Thank you sir and saddened that we missed you because of 1947.(2) Sir , After 1857 revolt, British tried to create Hindu Muslim difference as both the communities faught together against British. Bahadur sah was declared Emperor of free india by Hindu Muslim participants of the revolt together without any hesitation. I am surprised to note that 1857 revolt is not discussed in Pakistan whereas in India , it is considered as first freedom struggle of India.
Dr Shakil Chaudhary is the only light in this Black Hole.
STOP COMPARING INDIA WITH PAKISTAN JUST STOP PLEASE 🙏🏻, there is no comparison. India is much bigger than Pakistan in many ways so same rules don't apply! Please 🙏🏻
I find no hope and I am 1000% until Pakistan becomes a normal secular democratic state, Pakistan can ever survive with this religious direction
After religious constitution Pakistan 2nd problem is management and administration,Pakistan does not have basic pillars for the state, but we have basic pillars of Islam in the syllabus
16:12 correction Muslim were not ruling India, it was Marathas who ruled India and British defeated Marathas to govern India. Mugal kings were just for name sake a celebratory position and they governed UpTo palam part of Delhi.
We stand before 1947 . Even before 1947 situation was better. Pakistan is the only country which regress not progress anymore. The worst regression is societical, moral and not only governmental but economical and more than that judicial and corrupt mindset in all spheres of life
25:17 It's always a pleasure to hear Mr. Shakil Chaudhary's stimulating and thoughtful views.
16.27 ..the lady guest says Mughals/ Bahadur Shah Jaffar was ruling all over India.. actually most of the part of United India was ruled by Marathas and Sikhs .. British defeated them till 1850s and became Rulers... Bahadur Shah Jaffar's defeat was the last straw on the Camels back...
Excellent discussion! That’s what we need an open and free discussion! Look inside us! What have done in the last 76 years???
First of all, Pakistan has not enjoyed Democracy or Independence for 76 years.
In Delhi as well as in other major cities in India we need an Institute like Black Hole.
Quality discussion. Enriched.
Nasreen Azhar spoke also very well.
Thanks from India.
No need.
Hudbhoy sir, you might be aware that when Bharatiya Janta Party was established in 1980 after split of Janta Party, one of its pioneers was Sikandar Bakht from Chandni chowk Delhi. Others were AB Bajpayee, LK Adwani and MM Joshi..
its a beacon of hope for Pakistan if this honest analsis spreads and becomes part of popular discourse;better late than never. This is self reflection at the best!Indians also need to do similar analysis for all our failings and there are many despite all known successes.
A big salute to Mr. Shakeel Saheb 🙏
i am listening these things for the last ten years but no changes no corrective measures
Nice plate farm for discussion God bless Hood brother
Is there any Pakistani listening or only we Bhartiy listening and enlightening ourselves as always
They don’t have anyone other than jogindernath mandal, we in india have a whole lineup of muslim ministers. Yet they have audacity to say udhar musalmano k saath kya ho raha hai.
Heartening to see youngsters asking intelligent questions. Blackhole is a great platform. Well done, Prof Hoodbhoy
I have been watching the ' Black hole ' program recently. I am impressed by the discussion. But it's saddening to see very few attending these programs physically. After 76 years of independence of Pakistan and the condition in which they are today I expect to see such programs be taken by storm! Being an Indian and BJP supporter I want to see Pakistan progress.
Happy Independence day to you all.
I am really happy to tell you that first time in my life I am wishing Pakistani people.
It's good to see Pakistani talking about their biggest problem. That is their army. It shocked me to hear about their wealth. And how Pakistani can't talk about them.
Great discussion Big Respect shakll sahib Love from California 🙏🇺🇸
Hudhbhoy sir can you imagine our parents never hesitate to sell their house for education of their children? We just switch off our TVs and stop participating in any social gathering and dinners during two years of 11th and 12th standards of our children
1:32:47 Kashmir has attracted 12 million tourists till date during this year. This is in addition to those who visited Jammu and Ladakh. Definitely not a garrison area.
Never expected Pakistan have that much open minds to discuss real knowledge
I fully agree with madam, and her thinking that civilians should be allowed to move and make mistakes... By that only they will get right direction...
Sir aapne athans ki story sunaker bahut achha Kiya i can understand where your aim is...
It's a good way to teach Pakistani people..🙏👌
Dr.parvez with all respect I admire n impressed with u r best effort ñ hanlding show,
Respected Shakilji sir, Dr Parvez Hoodbhoy, Nayyar Sir and Respected Nasreen madam 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I am proud indian ❤❤❤
Important point missed - The real reason for partitiion was the rich muslim landlords of U.P wanted a safe haven for their wealth..
they conviniently used religion as a tool
Nasreenji I salute you for your deep knowledge and concern for women and showing the mirror.🙏
Until religion is made 100% personal affair constrained to within homes. Until the state and religion are separated, NO HOPE FOR PAKISTAN. I am sorry for saying the plain truth, but i care enough for common Pakistanis to not hold back real and complete reality. Lets keep the hope alive.
Its true that India has had many insurgency movements but they didn't talk how they were solved.
The North-East is a classic example. All groups who put down their arms were not jailed but allowed to run for local and state elections. Many Article 370 type laws were passed to preserve local culture and give autonomy. Newest example is Bodos where an autonomous region Bodoland has been created within Assam.
The Naxal insurgency in Central India is nearly dead
Respected panelist, I admire you all four. One thing I would like to bring to your notice. Just introspect that if some group come to seek your help to fight a bigger enemy than yourself. That group will talk to more younger, militant person than wiser, experienced person.
76 Years - and where does PK stand??
Sadly, it stands deep in the doo-doo - with seemingly no visible way out. And that is because the powers that be still do not feel the need or compulsion to make any visible and long standing changes to their assumptions and thinking. Partition mubarak ho!!!
Sab sir log ko mera salam. Ki Pakistan me aise bat karte ho. Well don.
Hudhbhoy sir bluntly told we are not independent.
In this context I just remembered a dialogue from loose talk of Anwar Maqsood, when Moin tells
" Azadi aap ko 14th August 1947 ko de di gayi thi ab agar aap ko roz roz azadi chahiye to vo nahin Milegi....what a real description!!
I feel sorry why the audience is so less. This is wonderful program and should be held in big auditorium. Really sad that only handful youngsters are there
In our society religion is practised after 60-70 years age of a person to keep the old age in a satisfactory mode for self well being
I’m satisfied with what I’ve got to get more knowledge about Pakistan todat from this discussion
WE STILL STAND IN 1940--46.
WE ARE STILL SCATERED AND
AIMLESS. 🤔😣😭😎
Except Shakil Chaudhari,🙏
All mindsets are putting Jilebiya ,and away from ground reality.
W - Water
E - Education
E - Economy
P - Population
Not independence day. It's Pakistan's 76th birthday day.
Happy birthday Pakistan
Correct yourselves: mughals never were able to capture whole of india,
Salute to Dr. Hoodbhoy!
Great and mindful discussion
Hello shakil Chaudhary sahib, I met you at Black hole , a few weeks before. Great interview
Result of Second Anglo Maratha War
The Scindias signed the Treaty of Surji-Anjangaon in 1803 through which the British got the territories of Rohtak, Ganga-Yamuna Doab, Gurgaon, 🇮🇳Delhi 🇮🇳 Agra region, Broach, some districts in Gujarat, parts of Bundelkhand and Ahmadnagar fort.
Do not insult jinnah, he firmly believed Hindus & muslims cannot live together, u must take all Indian muslims in Pakistan so that they can enjoy unadulterated genuine authentic Islam why they should be deprived of Islam
The big question remains; How do we persuade the army to give up its interference in governance and to accept civilian supremacy? Are we ready to make personal sacrifices to confront the army through organised public agitation?
Living in India 🇮🇳 proudly, I'm just thinking that how depressing it would be to live in Pakistan 🇵🇰..?
Parvez saheb forgotten that Takshila and Nalanda Universiries was there from 4000 to 5000 years and it was for all not only for brahmins, he dies not have actual knowledge of Indian system
Like always very nice conversation
that rawalpindi guy raised a good point but his conclusion is very simple..ke "hum to pakka nhi hain ruling me" ...looks more intuitive than factual
After 76yrs, ASKING as to where Do Pak Stand ??
Baffles Me ! Indicates you don't know yet, weather you are coming or Going ? Rest assured asking the same in 2047 too.!! Dr. H'Boy . Possible comparative scenario example of Athens Vs Milos to Pak(Athens) Vs India (Milos) would be scholarly enlightening keep on trucking!! 😳🙏
"I'm absolutely captivated by the brilliance of The Black Hole team.
If I ever visit Pakistan, I'll definitely go to the Black Hole Auditorium. They are really amazing people. ❤
We still stand where the van of jinnah was stopped.
Muslim parhe likhe? Earth is flat and stationary??!
Even these intellectuals of Pakistan can not give the kid an honest answer? Hoodbhoy conveniently forgot to mention that Aurangzeb imposed Jizya on Hindus. Sikh religion became a combatant religion because the Mughal emperors tortured and killed the Sikh gurus and their children. Countless temples were destroyed, including the holiest temple in Varanasi by Muslim invaders and rulers. The short answer is that there was never peace between Muslims and Hindus because of the exclusivist nature of Islam. It was an uneasy truce at best, necessitated because the Muslims wanted to rule a hindu majority country. Hoodbhoy is giving BS when he says that people did not even know their religion until the British census.
When you go back to the partition you will find parity was central to the notion that Pakistan was equal to India, if not more than equal - a limpet that couldn't be shaken off. Today it struggles to accept the reality of its position; one that has shrunk to less than a fraction of India's.
People of Pakistan cannot call it as Independence
.Jinna and Muslim league had never taken part in freedom struggle. Jinna was touts of Britishers
Very good discussion, some of panelists have dared to speak about Pakistan forces.
Nayyar Saheb used the word Dawa, dawat many times. This one reflects Islamic expansionism.
I am exited to see Pakistani farmers in uniform. 👍😃
Discussion based on reality
Dr. Hoodbhoy
Why worry about population .
More pakistani means more migration to foreign countries and this will help devlop many islamic pakistans worldwide . One day sheria laws will come and entire world will be Islam.
The purpose of creating
Pakistan will be achieved. So enjoy population growth ,this will prove most exportable item.
Good discussion ..enjoyed
Great discussion as always
In Islam we stand number 1, I do not know where Pakistan stands lolz ,moulana Gen zia modeed aur bhutto islamic mullah zindabad,welcome to 1973 islamic Pakistan.
I wouldn’t worry about 25 million stunted kids growing up in Pakistan. Their future is bright in the military, civil service and judiciary and yes don’t forget about politics of course.
Very true, impressive, thought provoking debate, highlighted the existing realities.
One of the best debate show in pakistan
Great discussion...
Beautiful discussion.
purvaiz hoobhoy and Dr. Ishtiaq ahmad should be the President and prime minister of Pakistan according to current situation......
Kindly,Change the title.....It is not 76 years of independence but..."76 year of creation/foundation day" !!
76 years of India's Independence
76th Birthday of Pakistan. ( Pakistan was born in 1947 )
Or can call 76 years of Pakistan's IN - DEPENDENCE.
Women explaining carving out land was good and defending it
That was direct declaration of war on the civilization
Sir Dr. Hoodboy should be inspiration for many in India and Pakistan
Shakil sahab ❤👏
Watching from India.
Some time I pity Pakistan for being into hands of greedy politicians and highly selfish army who have looted Pakistan .and above all religious biggotery has added to the misery. May God bless them
Sir, please note Independence Day Message on Kashmir and Nuclear arsenal.
people are talking about IITs. They are not talking about IISERs. These are new model of science education institutes focused on inter-disciplinary teaching and research.
It is a shame, very few subscribers.
Great analysis. 🙏
Pakistani koum world's best
iSi intelligence World's best
Pakistani jazba world's best
Pakistani fouj World's best
Pakistani religion world's best
____________ filling blanks...
Great panel
Appreciate the best efforts for awareness. Enjoyed listening. Many thanks for the good efforts
Yes, India too has poor people.
But ALL OF THEM are getting Free Ration, Free Housing, Free Cooking Gas and Free Health insurance upto Indian Rupees 5 Lacs annually.
Hoodbhoy is saying that Athenians were invading fighters but what we had learned that Aristotle Pluto Socrates all were of Athens and was an intellectual society. Their neighbor Sparta were fighters