Of the nearly 900 comments, this one is the most real. I love spuffy (I'm spuffy) but only because of his relationship as an ally of buffy and the scobbies to fight. I didn't like at all that Whedon wanted to create a Spike-buffy romance to replace the Angel-buffy love. It felt forced and uncomfortable for the actors. The sexual scenes in season 6 were horrible, not to mention the bathroom episode (Spike should never have appeared again after that aberrant act). I think the scriptwriters should not have moved forward with that toxic and depressing relationship they had, I liked Spike better who consoled her, helped her, understood her problems and took care of her sister. Was it necessary for him to search for her soul just to compete with Angel for Buffy's love? His only purpose in life is buffy and nothing else? Could it be that he was more obsessed than in love? Frankly, I always saw the spike-buffy relationship as a relationship similar to 2 brothers or friends who know each other and support each other and that's where their relationship should have stayed (and not advance to the painful season 6). And in season 7 when he recovered his soul, more than anything it made me sad, it seems that the writers were more interested in recovering his soul so that it can be sacrificed in the last episode and not as a reward for the character's redemption. I would have loved for them to give the Spike-Faith relationship a chance, there I do see a relationship of pure chemistry, desire, power, sadomasochism. In any case, it would have been ideal to empower Riley a little more, so that it would be a human who competes with Angel, not another vampire.
Spike vs Angel is a great example of Telling vs Showing. With Angel, you're told 'Here is this Vampire with a soul, who regrets all he did and seeks redemption. He's an angsty, brooding loner because if he experiences even one moment of true happiness he will become a monster again.' He was literally constructed from the ground up to be what he was, and in the end it limited him. He really had nowhere to go, character development-wise. As Angelus, he was equally one-note: A creature beyond any kind of redemption. As Angel, he's caught in a narrative trap, unable to really develop any lasting change with himself without invoking the clause in his curse. With Spike? Here is a monster. You SEE him being a monster, seeing all the evil things he does. You see him at his worst, but even with as terrible as he is, you see humanity there. He cares about things. He pauses. He's evil, but he loves things, in his twisted, selfish way.And then slowly, unwillingly, he's forced to change. And he messes up, and he makes mistakes, and he backslips, and he's still selfish and vulgar and all of those things he was... but slowly he learns. He's a brooding loner, but the audience knows why. He starts wanting to be better. The audience roots for him to be better, and cheers every time he takes a step. Even without his soul, he has empathy and depth, and in the end he fights for his soul back KNOWING what it will do to him. We get to see him make that journey that we're only told about Angel making, and in a lot of ways Spike even without his soul is better than Angel with his. He earns his redemption.
I think Damon Salvatore (Vampire Diaries) was modeled after Spike and Stefan the brother after Angel. Pretty similar. Damon and Spike were impulsive, bad to the bone. But ended up being a hero.
@@katemcdonald6134 Damon couldn't hold a candle to Spike. Julie Plec is not nore ever will be the calibre of Joss Whedon and her shows are all crap. Her one great character, Klaus, was utterly wasted. So...
Actually Caroline/Klaus are like Buffy/Spike. Look at the similarities! Caroline found good and watched Klaus changed after all the bad he caused her friends and town. Just like Buffy and Spike Caroline's friends hated and didn't trust Klause just like Buffy and Spike. Both Couples hooked up and had a connection but never got to having an actual relationship because Buffy/Caroline thought of the big picture and future. Spike/Klaus were in love with Buffy/Caroline and would do anything for them and Buffy/Caroline ended up loving them but not in love enough to actually be with them as "end game" but they very much cared for them and ended up having a place in their heart. Spike/Klaus sacraficed themselves to save the ones that they love and world. Spike went through torment to get his soul back to be a better man and Klause worked and found redemption to become a better father for Hope.
*googles 'how to like a comment more than once'* You said it!!!! You said it so well!!!! Everyone - including cast & writers! - saying that Bangel is / should be endgame because 'it's the greatest love story ever' is like ,,,,,,,, It makes me so incredibly mad that Spike is only really recognized in the fandom. SO MAD!!!!! (not to mention their ending is........ if I had a dime for EVERY TIME a writer for any show ever decided that writing one of his main couples into a healthy, stable and lasting relationship would cost him viewers -> and therefore claims that 'they would get bored of each other in mundane, day-to-day life lol' and breaks them up and/or writes them out.......... I would have at least four dimes bc Spuffy, Janto, Towen and TenRose. (and ngl it never hurt more than w/ Spuffy for the simple reason that I knew everyone - every one of the decision-makers, that is - has had Bangel in mind all along.) (ok and bc they were the only ones that COULD actually have stayed together w/out drastically altering the narrative, but the writers wouldn't LET THEM!!!))
I hated that Buffy wanted so badly to hate everything about Spike. She didn't want to admit to herself that she could love someone like him but was so quick to fall for Angel. Even without a soul, Spike showed up for her in every way. Spike's effort doesn't even compare to Angel.
I totally agree with you, she had more reasons to hate Angelus than Spike(without a soul) I never understood her obsession with Angel but I guess love doesnt always make sense...💀
Remember Spike actually cried when Buffy died. Angel was barely a footnote in the story. Angel said the words but Spike demonstrated his love over and over again.
And then he stayed! He took care of Dawn and kept helping the scoobies long after she passed. He wasn't doing those things to impress her or win her over or manipulate her.
I love so much how every time he tried to kill Willow, it always turned into a therapy session between them. I like to think he liked her deep down like how he genuinily liked Joyce
Mordecai Weston omg him bringing flowers to Buffy’s house as condolences, no name or card, was one of many huge turning points for me seeing that he hadn’t lost William completely.
@@kurtsnyder4752 I always loved how he had nicknames for all the special people in his life lol Goldilocks, Niblet, Red lol he even eventually started to refer to Xander as "the boy"
@@damnitnanet122 Thought it was cute until I thought that maybe it was that he was saying Dawn would be just a little snack(See Le Seur Minnesota's own Jolly Green Giant and his miniature companion, Nibblet). Maybe not so cute then. Of course, when they were hunting forthose egg things, I knew he was not meaning it in any sort of harmful way. Treated her like an older brother(in *prospective*law), or an uncle.
@@randomskits4454 yea so they are different not like spike is a replacement he is much more hot and fit then angel angel became a fat ass in his spinoff lately I mean at least angel couldn’t have those abs 😂
I completely agree with this. If you compare Spike and Angel back before they became vampires, they were complete opposites as well. When Spike was William he was kind, a bit shy, took care and loved his mother and was a poet. Angel when he was Liam was a spoiled drunk man whore who hated his father. Angel accepted Darla to change him into a vampire and then he went and murdered his entire family including his younger siblings. Spike did not accept Drusilla turning him into a vampire right away but when he became one his first thought was to change his mother because she was dying and he wanted to save her. It backfired of course and he had to kill her when she was vampire. When Angel was Angelus he created destruction for Buffy, hated her and wanted everything she loved gone. Spike, without his soul, still ended up falling in love with her and ended up helping her many times. Angel only helped because he had his soul. When Spike got his soul back you can see William in him in so many ways. Buffy and Spike is definitely my OTP.
@@luckyan1978 They're just saying that compared to Angelus Spike without a soul was a better person. Not that he was a good person without a soul but at least he tried.
@@luckyan1978 I believe it was stated that Angelous raped the tribe girl. Plus huffy still trusting dawn with him after that adds a lot even though he wasn’t there. Finally doing that horrific act made him get his soul which later led to buffs forgiving him and in the comics dating him,
I’m living for his talk with Willow “I know I’m not the kind of girl vamps sink their teeth into,oh you’re like a sister”. And Spike goes “don’t be ridiculous I’d bite you in a heartbeat”. LOVED IT!!!!
James Masters is just amazing. Spike could have been a throwaway character, but he gave him depth & made him fun & just put a lot of love into the making of his character.
I feel his and Dawn's relationship is underrated, he looks out for her like an older brother and that scene where he reached out to comfort her than recoiled when she turned to him was great. I also like how disgusted he was by the buffybot coming on to him s6e1
agreed! he looked after her even after buffy died, not expecting anything in return for his help. spike showed up and looked after dawn to help her, as i see it he truly kept his promise to buffy that he made before the big glory fight, which was to protect her til the end of the world. she also really felt safe with him, as she has stated before and how after tara died dawn wanted to go to spikes cript.
Right? I was kind of mad they never resolved their relationship in S7 smh....they literally had more heart-warming scenes together than Her and Xander yet they chose to give Xander an unearned resolution to his character arc that to me...was not earned.
Such a big difference between Xander & Willow's understanding of Buffy & Spikes relationship. One of the reasons why I disliked Xander so much. One of the reasons Xander hated Spike so much is that he knew that Spike would always have more of a chance with Buffy than he would, whereas Willow never judged Buffy or Spike for the feelings they had for each other.
Xander never did it for Buffy she always saw him as friend so he got friendzoned real quick which is why I think the other girls he got involved with are always the rebound because he couldn't have Buffy. Even Willow knew this when Xander asked her to go to the dance with him Willow wasn't stupid she even called him on it he only asked her to the dance because Buffy was the one he wanted. Even years later Xander is still bitter because Buffy dated every other guy but him he really had it in for Spike & Angel even when Buffy was turned into a vampire briefly he still thought she was hot. Spike understood Buffy & she no doubt couldn't believe that of all that people that understood her most it would be her enemy, turned friend, turned lover, turned partner that turns out to be a vampire Spike. She probably had hoped it would've been Angel but he had too many hangups unlike Bella who should've dropped Edward because he was bad for her. Buffy knew Angel wasn't good for her & turned him loose & moved on they did try a relationship again but it didn't work out & Buffy walked away & didn't look back. See Anna & Bella this is what a real woman would do when you know a guy that is bad for you is bad for you it hurts but you get over it Buffy did.
Nahh ... you can't forget what Spike did to him by sleeping with Anya. And Xander also couldn't forget that Spike almost raped Buffy. His character is one that doesn't forgive others easily. Yeah, maybe he always felt something for Buffy. But thats not the main reason he hated Spike.
@@barbaraberenyiesterhazy900 thats not totally true. Both Spike and Anya talked bad about Buffy and Xander before hooking up in the magic shop. But of course they didn't know about the camera and they drank alcohol out of frustration. In the end, they did what they did and that hurt Xander and Buffy massively.
@@barbaraberenyiesterhazy900 I guess they both wished they could just forget their own feelings and hurt Buffy and Xander without hurting themselves. That's true. I love Spike, will always. But Xander hated him for a few good reasons.
I am so glad you included the clip where Tara opened the blinds on the RV, burning Spike, and he assures her that it’s ok because it’s amusing her. Not only are most humans not that compassionate but he wasn’t just doing it for Buffy’s sake, it was genuine compassion. Also, thanks for including the comparison to Angel. Without his soul, Angel killed Jenny - someone Buffy and her friends were close to, drawing attention to it to make it even more painful for them - to prevent her from giving him his soul back. Spike went and intentionally endured several rounds of torture to get his soul back. Angel tormented Buffy and her friends without his soul; Spike fought to save Buffy and her friends’s lives over and over again, even after she died, when it couldn’t be a way to impress her. Seriously, love this video.
Exactly, those small details in his scenes, the haters will never see lol that is why people ship them..not cause of their toxic phase in S6. It's the whole dynamic and what it became in the end that is important. But even in the midst of the pre-s7 era, there were moments like that one where we pull our liking for him comes from. It's so simple lol but people waste their time on here judging and labeling people like people who like them are just twisted lol these are fictional characters anyways but regardless, Spike is the only soulless vamp that we could watch show any of the kindness that he showed. Doesn't mean it's all going to be rainbows cause yea duh he is still soulless but we can still point out when bad people try and do something right...that's how bad people can become good.
I really thought they should end up together when he still helped her friends after she died. At that point, nothing tied him to them. The person he loved was gone, he had no obligation to them. He could have left because no doubt he was reminded of her all the time in Sunnydale. And not only did he stay, but he HELPED them. And when he counted the days.... oml. It broke my heart when she asked how long she was gone and he replied with the EXACT NUMBER OF DAYS. And he said that he dreamed of saving her every night she was gone. He’s probably my favorite character.
And yet Buffy was so rude and ungrateful! Always hitting him and talking him down, it’s like “bitch, spike hung out with your sister just because and always kept her safe!” That alone should have earned him respect. Ugh
I wished she had been nice to Spike and given him a chance instead of being so mean and hateful to him.She should've allowed herself to be loved.She treated him like 💩
The “play peekaboo with Mr. Sunshine all you like” bit was so small, yet it cemented my love for Spike. Even without a soul, Spike is compassionate even towards people he doesn’t like very well.
He is incredibly compassionate, which is even shown with Dru. She was very strange, but he always did his best to be caring with her. As much as he likes violence he really knows how to connect with women.
I never could understand why people didn't see that Spike was the only choice. He loved her so unconditionally that he chose to get his soul back for her. He suffered so much for her in so many ways and she never appreciated it. And Spike is so incredibly hot on top of it all. I loved him to bits
I added this above, but I felt it merited reposting here: I'd like to point out, that spike didn't retrieve his soul on purpose for Buffy. He went to that demon to have the chip removed so he could finally kill buffy. In the end, the demon double-crossed him and twisted his words. Spike asked to be the way he was, meaning the way he was before the chip was installed, but instead, the demon gave him his soul back. Don't get me wrong, Spike is my favorite character on Buffy, and I love his redemption arc, but I find it ironic that people overlook the fact that he didn't go to get his soul back, he wanted revenge. It was only in the next season opener that the rambling, confused Spike claimed to have gotten his soul back for her. I think the writers were doing some backpedaling after the attempted rape at the end of the previous season.
@@aaronhanten6830 You're right. It probably was writer back pedaling. I'm so crazy about Spike that I easily overlooked that point. But I still feel like he was her best choice. Being a demon, it was natural that he'd want to kill her. And he hated and resented the fact that he was in love with her l. It's in the DNA of all demons to want to kill the Slayer and here he was with his whole unlife reviving l revolving around her. It was making him crazy. But it still comes down to the fact that he really did love her. Angel loved her too but he wasn't trying to overcome his demon nature to do it. I think. I haven't watched it in quite a while. I need to watch it again. I can't remember if he was in love with her before the chip or not. If he wasn't, then maybe his love wasn't any more pure than Angel's. But Spike is still my favorite
well said! Spike is the only choice! his transformation from demon to man is wonderful (he is one of the best written TV characters) In general I like all the characters in BTVS (except Xander and Dawn), they all grow up, but Angel seems fixed to me, never changes, always crying on himself .. when he tells Spike that he is still suffering from the curse of the gypsies and on the contrary Spike, after a short time in a basement, is fine, I thought it is normal because Angelus is always part of Angel, his actions are always motivated by selfishness and, even if good, they are based on an advantage for Angel .. . Spike is the opposite, at first we see him evil, calculating, but with humanity and, in the end, William wins the demon; he Is the perfect man for Buffy.. Buffy understands this, infact her final choice is Spike, with Angel they have completely separate lives....the real love of Buffy's Life is Spike
Spike is one of the greatest characters ever written, and acted brilliantly by Marster. It is the best example iv ever seen of real love on the big screen. Real.love transforms and we get to see it in both of them. Even after her death he keeps his promise he gave her to protect Dawn. Even without a soul his love wouldn't allow him to break that oath. 💔 Spike was the most Human of all .
@@aaronhanten6830 "I'd like to point out, that spike didn't retriieve his soul on purpose for Buffy. He went to that demon to have the chip removed so he could finally kill buffy. In the end, the demon double-crossed him and twisted his words. Spike asked to be the way he was, meaning the way he was before the chip was installed, but instead, the demon gave him his soul back. " yeah no spike literally says it was for his soul like 5 times in the show. and joss whedon even confirmed it why you talking bullshit "I fought for my soul almost did me in a dozen times over but i kept fighting because it was the right thing to do" "i wanted to give you what you deserved to be the kind of man who would never- to be the kind of man" "saw a man about a girl" "as daft the notion as soulful spike the killer is nothing compares ot the idea that another girl can mean anything to me, this chip they put in me, but my soul I got on my own... for you." when spike attempted rape against buffy he literally saw himself as a monster who wasn't worthy of her afterwards. and went to become the kind of man she deserves
The thing I love about spike is he literally did all this without a soul. Loved,protected,grieved all of it when he should have had zero care or morality. Then wanting to be worthy of her goes through the agony of getting his soul back. Yes the chip made it so he couldn't harm humans but the rest was all him. His heart. His character development is my favorite. 🖤
Totally agree - and when Angel was without his soul he was a total A-hole! Spike was funny, compassionate and capable of love so deep he endured torture, even with no soul. It was beautiful.
I dont know if I missed it, but in the Gift when Spike says:"I know youll never love me.I know that Im a monster. But you treat me like a man...." oh the Feels!!!! Spike - Warrior poet.
I have always loved Spike. Angel only loved her with a soul, when it was gone he literally tried to murder her but up to season 7 Spike had no soul yet still loved her and he suffered three rounds of torture for her!!!
Amen to THIS. It’s no doubt Spike is a deeper written character than Angel. At least in Buffy. In the Angel series, I see other sides of Angel but it’s still not as deep to me
It's nice to know that in the comics they actually date, and while they break-up in S12 they also talk about getting back together and are seen together and at peace at the end of the series. So I chose to believe they did get back together and that she did chose Spike.
I realize no relationship is perfect but Buffy and Spike's was a pretty good one with only one huge problem between them which was the attack. Buffy even ended up forgiving him for it. He literally did the worst thing possible because he was in the worst place possible. I think the only reason why people who ship Spuffy overlook that is because Spike worked time and time again to earn back the trust of not only Buffy but the entire gang. I don't condone what Spike did but I see why the gang was able to move past it eventually. And no Angel bashing intended but when Spike did a horrible thing he not only worked to get his soul back but also repeatedly worked for redemption but Angel in season 2 just expected to get forgiven for everything, including murder, because he got his soul back. That is the main reason I prefer Buffy with Spike. He loved her without a soul(unlike Angel) and didn't issue ultimatums even when they disagreed(unlike Riley). He always loved her for exactly who she was and he loved the people she loved because he got to know them; it wasn't just a byproduct of his love for her.
The other element that a lot of people forget is that sex and violence went hand in hand in every aspect of their relationship. The first time they had sex, they were beating the crap out of each other 2 seconds before. So within the dynamics of their relationship, there was always an element of violence. In some ways, she was even abusive towards him. Beating him up only to be like "j/k let's bone" in the next episode. She even admits to using him. So in that scene in the bathroom, the second he realizes "oh she actually means 'no' this time" he is instantly mortified by his actions.
@@LivyRivy Very true. He even says in the scene that he knows she likes it rough and his breakdown when he realizes she really didn't want to do it was amazing acting on James Marsters part.
Krisstina Wilson there is just one comment I would like to make. I agree with you to a point. I believe Angel loved Buffy but inherently Angel was weak. I believe the demon who had control of his body destroyed the people Angel loved because: 1) Angel who was present although he does not always remember it was suffering watching those he love suffer and die. 2) If, as a demon, you want to maintain control of the vessel you are inhabiting you must destroy the people who have the greatest probability of inspiring the soul to fight against you. 3) Even though the demon was the one who committed those crimes, it did it in your body so it is automatic for the soul to feel guilty for crimes it did not commit. By wearing your body, violating the trust and love others have for you and using it to torture and eventually kill them the demon is also torturing you! This weakens the soul and ensures that the demon stays in control.
@@drcnicole And I agree with you to a point. I don't think the demon inside Angel is to blame for the actions Angelus, or Angel for that matter, committed. Like you said, Angel was kind of weak as he let the demon take control and even as a human was not that good of a person except to his sister. To that extent, I understand from Angel's point of view that losing his soul and having a demon commit horrible acts is a violation of a person's spirit.
I always liked the fact that there was such a grey area over his soul. With Angel, it was so binary - Angel good, Angelus evil. It was so easy for the audience to differentiate between the two and forgive Angel for the sins of Angelus. With Spike it was so much more complicated.
The way he looks at her when he sees her coming down the stairs, the way he counts the days, the way he saves her every night. And he didn’t have his soul yet! He was already a good man! ♥️♥️. Such a beautiful love story. So wish they’d televised seasons 8 to 12. I need more Spike! 😊
I always read things about Spike being abusive to Buffy but...is everyone forgetting that she was, in fact, the initial abuser? He couldn't hit her back (much like many men won't hit a woman) and she punched him every time she seen him. Once he found out in S6 he could hit her, he had no soul so decided to take revenge. After they became intimate he knew he could hit her and didn't but she still hit him. Then there was the attempted rape which was of course abhorrent and there was no excuse. His redemption was based around what he did which is questionable but it is still storytelling. People change for all sorts of reasons IRL. I think it was a toxic relationship but you cannot say Buffy didn't hold any responsibility for that. she abused her power and decided she didn't want to be that person anymore. and so did he. in the end when he got his soul, I think there was love there. It wasn't pure love like Angel and Buffy, but that's why it was more realistic. Adult love is complicated.
I only just finished Buffy (I'm 22!) & I can say it is honestly the best TV Show I've ever watched. I love Spike so much and admire and respect him for all he went through to prove and redeem himself to Buffy. I wish I was alive when this show came out, it feels so weird to be completely in love with the Buffyverse now even though everyone has aged since then!
I know how you feel. I almost always get into shows (or books or movies) long after they've already finished. I first watched Buffy in 2010. It's a bittersweet feeling. Like, you love being a part of the fandom now, but you'll always wish you could've experienced it live, at its height. Anyway, welcome to the Buffyverse! Have you watched Angel yet?
One of the really interesting things I don’t think anyone has mentioned- after Buffy’s death, he has Willow reprogram Buffy-Bot, to be more like the real Buffy- which means removing the love-programme... & you see him freak out a little when a glitch lets some of the old programming leak through - that he grew enough to go from play-acting with Harmony, to getting the Buffy-Bot, to wanting the real thing- foregoing any substitutions, & just focusing on the mission of protecting Dawn & the gang- regardless of how they felt about him, really does say a lot...
All these scenes really make me question the writers’ decision to make spike attack Buffy. It just seems completely incompatible with all his character growth.
I felt like the writers were constantly backpedaling on any progress Spike and Buffy made in the growth and deepening of their connection. It was like they were trying to push them one step forward then two steps back, and that rape attempt was a really bad idea. On the other hand it was the catalyst to make him feel so sorry that he went and got back his soul.
Same, in season 5 he tells buffy (who he thinks is the bot) that he would get tortured to death to spare her the pain of losing Dawn, later he states that he would die to avenge her, that is not the spike they show in season 6
Well that's just wrong. All the back and forth of Spike's character is made on purpose, the goal being to show you don't change that easily. He is trying very hard to change, to be someone who could really be with Buffy, but he is limited by his lack of soul, as it would act as a block for his worst impulses. That is what makes him getting a soul so much more meaningful, that he realises that he could never be hers without it, because at some point, lacking his soul would lead him to harm her, something he promised to never do.
An argument people usually make against Spike: "he sexually assaulted her." Yes. He did. That's never been denied. But as a survivor of sexual assault myself, if my abuser had shown one *ounce* of the remorse that Spike did, I would be worlds closer to forgiveness and healing. Even outside of my personal experiences, the first thing Spike does after he assaults Buffy is leaves town to get his soul back. He crossed a line and he knew it. His character is one of the few I've seen that truly can be redeemed--in part, too, because he never asks for forgiveness, and instead respects that he can never make up what he did.
Thank you! Xander getting upset about it makes me even madder because when HE assaulted Buffy he just pretended he lost his memory so he didn't have to deal with it. Spike deliberately got his soul back because he felt he couldn't trust his moral conscious anymore without it.
He didn’t even have a soul at the time! I feel like we have to look at the soulless vampires as animals, to an extent. Or sociopaths. They literally can’t understand certain nuances of morality. The logical progression of Spike’s thoughts must have been something like “if I can just get her to have sex with me again, she’ll remember how great we are together.” And their sexual beginning was ALWAYS fraught and no/yes. Intellectually she didn’t want to have any kind of sexual relationship with him but she was drawn to him in a powerful way that she didn’t want to resist. So their encounters usually started with a literal fist fight that then led to sex. It was weird to begin with! I can see that as creature with no innate empathy or moral compass would misunderstand his own actions, here.
Totally agree with all the reasons here... Buffy and Spike's relationship was so much more real and evolved naturally. And, like you said, he was so much more likable without a soul and he fought for his soul, whereas Angel was cursed with his soul twice. He did nothing to earn it, or Buffy. Plus, by the end of season 7, the only characters I liked in Buffy were herself, Spike and Anya!
I can`t believe I only discovered BTVS last Christmas! Too busy in the 90s to watch much TV. All those years without Spike. How have I survived? This is a great vid., tells it like it is.
After hurting Buffy, Spike left without hesitation on his motobike, giving himself the greatest punishment, apologizing for what he had done to Buffy, and returning to Buffy as a better man. And buffy forgave him And he sacrificed himself for Buffy even though he didn't believe she would love him. Unconditional Spike's love was the greatest of all And he took care of Buffy's sister and helped her friends to keep her promise even in a world without Buffy. When there was no hope she could come back...
Well, the demon gave him what he *wanted* - the physical ‘proof’ of his choice & change, but he’d grown emotionally before that point, & what he *needed* , was for Buffy to see it, & believe it.
Jaime Bee I honestly don’t think he’d ever _choose_ to become human- at least not at that point, because he’d be leaving Buffy vulnerable without his supernatural strength- & he wouldn’t do that to her; he was always willing to fight by her side, against any enemy - we saw how bad her relationship with Riley went, with the power imbalance- & he was a super-soldier, & thus stronger than a regular human.
I was a Bangel fan first and then I re watched all 7 seasons again after 17 years and now I know better what Love, Compassion, Relationship, Lust and Struggle for each other and so on is for myself and to others. To not see Spuffy as the righteous choice for her is more about your personal feelings and dreams for the other two rather than the true love Spuffy pours out for each other. What I see in Buffy and Spike is something other then a temporary love affair. I see something larger, hotter, more honest love than the teenage crush she had for Angel. Angel was a teenage love, a summer crush where she was young, stupid, naive, inexperienced and blind to what true love is and what that means. He was that first love that a girl has for her puppy, a love that is more about reverence and feeling sorry for the lost little Angel who wanders around Sunnydale like a lost puppy or a stray dog with his shy insecure smile lurking on his face. Angel is weak mentally as well as physically. When Angel has a soul, he radiates insecurity, immaturity, caution, modesty and wanders around lost and aberrant in Buffy's vicinity. Then when he loses his soul, he becomes even weaker as he cannot resist the demons he has in him. He becomes utterly evil and slaughters helpless women, children and men for pleasure more than for his hunger. He wants to erase the human race without remorse. To get Angel under some sort of control, he must first have a soul and then see to it that he never feels happiness and love for another woman again. Who kills Angel? Buffy does. Even when he is restored to the dull gray Angel again she drives the sword through his heart and send him to hell...where he belongs. She never kills William. Spike is everything Angel wants to be but will never reach or fulfill. Spike is a leader an individual and the Alpha male who rules over his own body and rules over his inner demons. He is in full control. He is younger, he is twice as strong as Angel physically and ten times stronger mentally. He radiates a self-confidence and status over himself that no one can upset or access. The only person who makes him knee weak is Buffy. Spike loves Buffy without a soul and helps Buffy and the rest of the Scooby gang against evil creatures. He protects Buffy's little sister Dawn with his own life at stake. He is subjected to cruel, bloody torture without even uttering a word where the Key is (Dawn). He never harms Buffys friends and her closed ones and always listen and support Buffy in her guidance and her struggles she have in everything they do. Even when he comes to her house with a shotgun in his hands to shoot her for his pain and misery he has towards her, he lower the gun immediately when he sees her crying and is in her weak mode and is unstable. He sits with her, holding her and comforts her. Their share the pain they have for each other. The very last night together is Spikes best night ever. They don´t have sex they have much more meaningful night then that. A close intimate night together just holding each other and being close to one and another. That´s Love. He recognizes her first of them all when she comes down the stairs by just looking at her eyes and the way she moves. He knows, he feels, he senses her immediately. He has counted every 147 days as a loss in his life and that he has counted these days in pain and sorrow. He knows her the best and better than she knows herself inside out. They both know that they are right for each other and that Spike always wants to be with her because she needs him more than he needs her. Spike knows this therefor he is close to her so that she can take out her despair and anger on him and be the punching bag she needs to have because he can take it. That´s what scares Buffy that Spike is so genuinely pure open and honest towards her about his feelings for her that she does not know how to handle it. She is afraid that he will burn her heart. Eventually she wakes up and give him her love. True couples fight, argue, yell, grow, mature, support each other, make each other stronger and have intense passionate love and sex. That is the Hallmark of Spuffy. He becomes a GOOD person without feeling anything but pure love for Buffy. He performs great deeds and is a strong cog in the life of Buffy and her friends. He constantly wants to improve in front of Buffy and protect and support Dawn. Once he gets his soul back, he performs even greater deeds and perishes with the city of Sunnydale to save the masses of the people. He helps Buffy and trains slayer girls of tomorrow to fight right and to make them more skilled, confident and stronger. If this is not the purest love a man can have for his girlfriend and her friends but also for the inhabitants of Sunnydale and for mankind in general...Nothing is. He is the backbone the guardian of the Summers Family and the strongest and closest allied the Scooby gang has. He sacrifices his life for Buffy. He died for his Love for Buffy so that she, Dawn, Willow, Xander and her Slayer friends would survive and he asked for nothing in return. All he wanted was to show that he was no longer a demon but a Man who does good deeds for the people he love and for ordinary people. Williams Love for Buffy and the rest of humanity he regained, saved the entire world from the Hellmouth. To have come this far Spike went through voluntary death fights and torture a second time just to get his soul back. He would have done all of this with a soul or souless. This is strength in its purest shining form and the greatest love of them all. To produce a rape scene was probably more to soil down Spike's role as the good hearted Spike became more and more a room-clean character in everyone's eyes. That he would do this evil deed against the woman he is willing to sacrifice everything for is more ugly and unrealistic than logical. Spike was Buffy's sex toy and he felt more like a sex slave to her as he never had the guts or the heart to say no to her closeness. He wanted so much more that he was always available for her. He had to settle for being ignored by Buffy and the times she wanted his closeness he had to settle for the crumbs she gave him. He wanted her Love and Buffy wanted his great sex performances. Buffys love for Spike came more and more when she realized that she didn't have to hold her guard up in front of her friends around Spike when they starting to accept Spike as an Allied and a friend. Even Giles and Xander accepted Spike as Buffys boyfriend eventually. This scene in (seeing red) is a product that Spike was becoming more popular than Angel and Buffy combined. He took over the room with his great presence and stamina. The love story of Spuffy was getting stronger in the households at home and Angel was becoming a forgotten character. So they did this rotten scene because of Team Spuffy was a stronger match than Bangel. Buffy eventually realized that Spike made her alive and without Spike she might have become suicidal. It was Spike who took her out and made her feel alive and the desire to live and feel lust again. All of this grew when she was with Spike. She was at peace and home in his soul, mind and body when she was in the arms and presence of Spike. With Angel she was treated as a defiant child and therefore did not gained trust instead she was lost and weak minded teenage girl. With Spike who boosted her she became a strong young grown up woman with self-esteem who got praise and support from Spike. Angel held her down and Spike lifted her up. SMG as an bangel fan is more her own memories with the person of David than the character of Angel and their chemistry together on the set rather then rational thinking. Freddie could easily be her Angel the resemblance is there. If Spike was Angel and Angel was Spike she would have gone with the character David was playing. I think her personal preferences is dark haired dark eyed men. Second is that it is Buffys first love and that Angel was mysterious and hard to get into. Personal he is just lame and pale to Buffy and Spike was opposite with so much presence and colorful in his personality. Maybe also a desire to feel that one's teenage love can last a lifetime, and that it is a more popular opinion through the mainstream eye of Hollywood lenses. She will personal never admit none of this in public because it´s the "wrong" guy for the fans but in secret I think that she thinks that William was the man of her life. The man she settles down with now when she is an middle age woman and has experience and can look back she realizes that Spike was The One. Angellus was a crush William was first WOW then for the long haul into eternity. Deep down with neutral eyes and knowledge of true love that we the rest of us have experienced when it comes to love. We see Spuffy for what it truly is and not through the fictional Hollywood bubble. In the real life Buffys savior is Spike. Buffys greatest love is and Will be William. She realize it and eventually goes with it when she can lower her shoulders. We see what Buffy needs and not what the viewer wants. What she needs is Spike by her side who is always there for her. He protects her he comforts her and knows what love, sacrifice and fighting for your love is. She is becoming to be with the man she needs and love. The mature eternal love is William the Lovely. That's the Love Buffy ended up with in the future and so is it written later on. That's what saved her life. Buffy and Spike lived together for the rest of their lives and their love for eachother was eternal. For that I say, AMEN.
I love spuffy. The fact he was a monster but fell in love with buffy and tried to change was amazing., He helped the gang even after her death and looked after her sister. He did so much to prove to buffy he loved her and was there for her. He wanted to earn her trust after he attacked her. He also tried to connect with her friends whereas angel 🤮 never did that and yet he felt he deserved forgiveness. But spike earned it even without a soul he loved buffy and earned forgivness angel was a monster without a soul. Not only that the fact that spike died to save everyone else just shows he had changed
Yes! Spike is one of the best written characters ever! He was evil but love is the strongest forces in the universe.. stinger than evil and it can rescue almost anyone
This character is amazing! I mean the way he fell in love with her being evil points to the fact that he had always wanted to be on the good side otherwise he would have never been attracted to someone like Buffy. And his compassion to her when she learnt about her mother’s illness ( even without the soul) isn’t it the best!
I used to be a big bangel fan when I started watching the show. No disrespect to those who still do ( I mean even SMG says she's bangel). I really like Spuffy because i think the chemistry between those two is gold even when they were enemies. I love the whole enemies then friends and then lovers part thing. I think people forget though that even though Buffy reacted indifferently to Spike at times she was in fact in love with him too. You see a lot of it during season 7 ( especially with telling Angel basically to go away and confess her feelings for Spike) as well as during season 6 and even a tiny part in season 5.
There is a monumental difference between Angel and Spike. Angel got his soul back as a curse when he didn't want it. Spike got his soul back as a reward when he did want it. That's why Angel has 200 years of remorse, and Spike only had three weeks sulking in a cellar.
William was a BEAUTIFUL man full of compassion. He was good BEFORE he was bad. When he was granted the ability to be a complex human being (soul), he was able to reach his fullest potential as a vampire. Angel NEVER has this and that is why his character as a human and as a vampire was toxic and full of drama! Spike exemplifies humanity in the later seasons. James did the best job and taught us all what it means to take the past and use it to create a better present person
It's funny that this video is perfect example, why even soulless Spike deserved to be with Buffy. We don't even need to go on about the hero he became, after he got he's soul back. People will start about the seeing red scene non-stop, even though he(soulless Spike) redeemed himself, by going through hell to become a better man and deserve forgiveness.
Gwen _ST I’m in the process of making a video specifically about THAT SCENE since a lot of people can’t seem to get over it. Perhaps they don’t fully understand how the soul works in the Buffyverse. 🤷♀️
@@GemofAmara I think it's not just the soul, but also the context of the scene. Both Buffy and Spike abused each other so much in the second half of season six that the line became extremely blurred, so when it came to a point that Buffy really meant "no," Spike didn't recognize it as a stop kind of no until the very last second. At that point, Spike realized he had done wrong, STOPPED, and then ran away to repent for what he had done, ! all without a soul ! to tell him all that. I feel like people put Buffy into this helpless woman stereotype that they only see this scene in back and white, all the while ignoring the before and after. Buffy deserves better than that. (And thanks for making this video.)
@@GemofAmara For you spuffy lovers,you don't know how painfull coulde be a attempt RAPE or in my case,A RAPE and trie defending a disgusting situation and even worse keeping shipping that shit as couple !Don't make a lame excuse to redeeme his action ,becouse in real life ,a rapist is a rapist or sexual ofender there is no redemption.
@@2010jocey If you watch both series', you'd see that TVD took the same storylines and redid them for Stefan and Damon. Hell, the whole cast of Buffy was just modified in TVD. Then go back and look at the storylines and you'll see TVD is a reboot of BTVS. Buffy = Elena Angel = Stefan Spike = Damon Willow = Bonnie Xander = Matt Giles = Alaric Cordelia / Anya = Caroline Dawn = Jeremy Oz = Tyler
@@gonzo0071 I'm not saying you're wrong, but most shows like that have the same type of characters. The bad boy/good guy love interest love triangle, the mentor, the best friend, the mean girl, the jock, the annoying/naive younger sibling, etc. They are all common tropes in teen television shows.
I mean, he voluntarily fought to have his soul back for her, he let Glory beat him up almost to death, to protect Dawn for her. He was always looking after Dawn, for her. He helped the scoobies gang a lot. He counted the days when Buffy was death, he loved Joyce like a mother, all without a soul. Angel, as soon as he lost his soul, all he did was torture Buffy and her friends, killed Jenny, brought the Judge back to destroy the world. Spike was 1000% better than Angel, in any ways. HE always had a bit of humanity on him. Angel was good only because he had a soul, that was forced on him.
@@alejandromendez4720 Again, coming from the comic book.. *MORE SPOILERS* That is not actually Buffy but a look-a-like to bait someone going after Buffy. Perhaps you missed what I said, that this is from the comic that continues from where the show was left off.
Thank you so much for this insightful video. Well done! Angel was her first love and that’s special! However Spike was her adult partner and the depth and breadth of the relationship was much greater and stronger!! I loved how you showed Spikes growth for both friendships and the love of his life Buffy. Thank you again for bringing us great memories of a fantastically written and acted series!!
Such a great show. I started watching it back in 2002, which was considered late at the time. It's sad that no one I tell today to watch it doesn't even give it the time of day.
as a kid I loved her and Angel, rewatched Buffy and Angel a few years ago, and I couldn't picture Buffy with anyone but Spike. same goes for Angel and Cordelia.
That's most likely because Angel and Buffy are like Romeo and Juliet. Two star-crossed lovers who can't be together because of destiny or something like that. Yeah, really speaks to the romantic and the teenager who just fell in love for the first time and doesn't believe that they will feel anything similar to this ever again, but the older you get and the more you realise that a healthy relationship is not just based on "blind love", which in of itself is something that doesn't even really exit, but on so much more like trust and friendship, things Buffy and Angel always lacked, the more you (hopefully) start to get annoyed with these easy, childish displays of romance in media. The sad truth is that putting relationships like Buffy and Angel on a pedastel, and acting like this is what a true romance should be about, is actually harmful. If you take a step back, you realise that Buffy and Angel serioulsy are a prototype version of Bella and Edward, only that Buffy has way more agency as a character than Bella and hence the relationship can never last since Buffy is there to outgrow her childhood, to transition into being an adult while Bella is just there to be a never aging bland surface onto which the reader can project herself. And from the already pretty toxic Bella/Edward relationship it is not a far jump to the absolute disgusting and toxic relationship in 50 Shades, which was based off Twilight after all. Because of this, there should not have been a hint in Chosen that one day Buffy and Angel might end up together since they are not good for each other, but Wheadon, like too many other writers, apparently couldn't help himself to continue to perpatuate this trope.
gotta say though, I hated were they took Cordelia in the last seasons of Angel bc they basically wrote her off and completely disregarded most of her character arc, and yk, the part where she slept with Angel's son was absolutely terrible
@@esotericopia2854 That was basically Joss Wheadon being a dick and punishing Charisma Carpenter for getting pregnent. It's not like there was an easy way out of it - either just write her out at the end of season three by having her ascent or die permanently, or have her do that a year, aka the duration of season 4 and then return in season 5. Yes, I know Stargate did the same thing at the same time but who really cares? It definitely would have been better than what actually happened.
@@GermanLeftist your version of healthy relationship isn't right, assault and stalking aren't normal. Point of the show is neither of the vampires are good for her. They are Vampires
Angel était un trouduc avant d'être transformé, puis en vampire. Spike, lui, était un être bon. Et il n'a jamais eu besoin de malédiction pour se montrer gentil, avoir de la compassion, et surtout, pour éprouver de l'amour. Toute sa vie de vampire, il a été amoureux fou.
11. After her 'resurrection' if she'd come back wrong he wouldn't have let Willow send her back (kill her) = 'Any part of that was Buffy, I wouldn't let her!'. 12. He was her 'quiet place' (because who doesn't need one of those!) and 13. He added some zing to her life, and though whilst he could be just as dark and intense, and was (at least!) as complex, as Angel, I don't think he would ever be as heavy as him (and if there is one thing Buffy needs in her life its a bit of lightness = I can't imagine Angel ever even watching an episode of 'Passions', let alone caring about Timmy down the well !) Thank you so much for this - you've got most of my favourites in there (although, weirdly my no. 11 is probably my most favourite, even above him getting his soul back for her, because to me it shows how, even soulless, he loved her more than anyone else [with the possible exception of Dawn, maybe?] and with your no. 9 and that speech [actually him in that whole episode] in no. 8 coming a very, very close joint third).
There are two episodes on Buffy that I wanna bring up here now. One is Halloween from season 2 and the other is Tabula Rasa from season 6. In Halloween, because of magic, our heroes wrongfully think they are somebody else with no memory or knowledge of who or what they really are, like Xander thinks he's a soldier and Buffy thinks she's an eighteen century girl. In Tabula Rasa, because of magic, they just lose all of their memory, they don't even know their names. In both cases, though, they are thrown into one crisis. On season two, Buffy is into Angel, and in "Halloween", when her memory is messed up with magic, she barely pays attention to Angel when she sees him. On season six, Buffy is into Spike, and in "Tabula Rasa", when her memory is messed up with magic, she rushes to save Spike once he's attacked, and then the two of them team up to fight the bad guys. See? "Stay away from Randy!"
Loved Spike. Yes, he was a bad guy. Like...a REALLY bad guy. He went through a pretty dark period. But I kind of feel like that was due to the people he hung around with. Once he started hanging around the Scooby gang he did better things. Angel's soul was a curse. Spike voluntarily went and got his so he could be a better man for Buffy. And William was always a better person than Liam was.
Putting Spike and Angel against each other also shows how you do a redemption arc right and how you don't. Spike is the how to example and Angel is how you screw it up. Both had set backs but where Spike succeeded in the end, Angel is essentially the same person at the end of season five of Angel as he was in season one of Buffy, a guy who is ashamed of who and what he is and who is trying to repay the debt he feels he has to the world, while Spike learned to completely live with who and what he is and do what is right simply because it is right, and he started to develop into that person before he even got his soul back.
People have in detail explained very eloquently why Spike is vastly superior to Angel across the board. So I'll simply leave my agreement instead. Spuffy Then Spuffy Now Spuffy Forever
I hate to admit it, but even without a soul he was nicer guy than Angel. Angel needed a soul to be nice. And when he was human, he loved his mother, so he was better human than Angel too... Yet there nothing better than a redeemed bad boy.
“Every night I save you” makes me cry every time. Spike was like this even without a soul. And while he did assault Buffy, he felt remorse (WITHOUT A SOUL) and then WENT AND GOT ONE. AND THEN AFTERWARDS DEALT WITH THE PAIN ANS GUILT. Angel was horrible without a soul and in my opinion barely tolerable with one. Angel would’ve likely raped, tortured, and killed her without a soul.
Don't be a dick in the comments. These are fictional characters in a fictional world. This is not real life. Be kind to each other.
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT
@@I_like_waffles only took 20 years for someone to say it
Yes thank you
Honestly! There’s a whole bunch of people who want to start trouble over nothing fml 🤦♀️
Of the nearly 900 comments, this one is the most real. I love spuffy (I'm spuffy) but only because of his relationship as an ally of buffy and the scobbies to fight. I didn't like at all that Whedon wanted to create a Spike-buffy romance to replace the Angel-buffy love. It felt forced and uncomfortable for the actors. The sexual scenes in season 6 were horrible, not to mention the bathroom episode (Spike should never have appeared again after that aberrant act). I think the scriptwriters should not have moved forward with that toxic and depressing relationship they had, I liked Spike better who consoled her, helped her, understood her problems and took care of her sister. Was it necessary for him to search for her soul just to compete with Angel for Buffy's love? His only purpose in life is buffy and nothing else? Could it be that he was more obsessed than in love? Frankly, I always saw the spike-buffy relationship as a relationship similar to 2 brothers or friends who know each other and support each other and that's where their relationship should have stayed (and not advance to the painful season 6). And in season 7 when he recovered his soul, more than anything it made me sad, it seems that the writers were more interested in recovering his soul so that it can be sacrificed in the last episode and not as a reward for the character's redemption.
I would have loved for them to give the Spike-Faith relationship a chance, there I do see a relationship of pure chemistry, desire, power, sadomasochism. In any case, it would have been ideal to empower Riley a little more, so that it would be a human who competes with Angel, not another vampire.
Spike vs Angel is a great example of Telling vs Showing.
With Angel, you're told 'Here is this Vampire with a soul, who regrets all he did and seeks redemption. He's an angsty, brooding loner because if he experiences even one moment of true happiness he will become a monster again.' He was literally constructed from the ground up to be what he was, and in the end it limited him. He really had nowhere to go, character development-wise. As Angelus, he was equally one-note: A creature beyond any kind of redemption. As Angel, he's caught in a narrative trap, unable to really develop any lasting change with himself without invoking the clause in his curse.
With Spike? Here is a monster. You SEE him being a monster, seeing all the evil things he does. You see him at his worst, but even with as terrible as he is, you see humanity there. He cares about things. He pauses. He's evil, but he loves things, in his twisted, selfish way.And then slowly, unwillingly, he's forced to change. And he messes up, and he makes mistakes, and he backslips, and he's still selfish and vulgar and all of those things he was... but slowly he learns. He's a brooding loner, but the audience knows why. He starts wanting to be better. The audience roots for him to be better, and cheers every time he takes a step. Even without his soul, he has empathy and depth, and in the end he fights for his soul back KNOWING what it will do to him. We get to see him make that journey that we're only told about Angel making, and in a lot of ways Spike even without his soul is better than Angel with his. He earns his redemption.
Well said! 👏
I think Damon Salvatore (Vampire Diaries) was modeled after Spike and Stefan the brother after Angel. Pretty similar. Damon and Spike were impulsive, bad to the bone. But ended up being a hero.
@@katemcdonald6134 Damon couldn't hold a candle to Spike. Julie Plec is not nore ever will be the calibre of Joss Whedon and her shows are all crap. Her one great character, Klaus, was utterly wasted. So...
Actually Caroline/Klaus are like Buffy/Spike. Look at the similarities! Caroline found good and watched Klaus changed after all the bad he caused her friends and town. Just like Buffy and Spike
Caroline's friends hated and didn't trust Klause just like Buffy and Spike. Both Couples hooked up and had a connection but never got to having an actual relationship because Buffy/Caroline thought of the big picture and future. Spike/Klaus were in love with Buffy/Caroline and would do anything for them and Buffy/Caroline ended up loving them but not in love enough to actually be with them as "end game" but they very much cared for them and ended up having a place in their heart. Spike/Klaus sacraficed themselves to save the ones that they love and world. Spike went through torment to get his soul back to be a better man and Klause worked and found redemption to become a better father for Hope.
*googles 'how to like a comment more than once'*
You said it!!!! You said it so well!!!! Everyone - including cast & writers! - saying that Bangel is / should be endgame because 'it's the greatest love story ever' is like ,,,,,,,,
It makes me so incredibly mad that Spike is only really recognized in the fandom. SO MAD!!!!!
(not to mention their ending is........ if I had a dime for EVERY TIME a writer for any show ever decided that writing one of his main couples into a healthy, stable and lasting relationship would cost him viewers -> and therefore claims that 'they would get bored of each other in mundane, day-to-day life lol' and breaks them up and/or writes them out.......... I would have at least four dimes bc Spuffy, Janto, Towen and TenRose. (and ngl it never hurt more than w/ Spuffy for the simple reason that I knew everyone - every one of the decision-makers, that is - has had Bangel in mind all along.) (ok and bc they were the only ones that COULD actually have stayed together w/out drastically altering the narrative, but the writers wouldn't LET THEM!!!))
I hated that Buffy wanted so badly to hate everything about Spike. She didn't want to admit to herself that she could love someone like him but was so quick to fall for Angel. Even without a soul, Spike showed up for her in every way. Spike's effort doesn't even compare to Angel.
I totally agree with you, she had more reasons to hate Angelus than Spike(without a soul)
I never understood her obsession with Angel but I guess love doesnt always make sense...💀
FACTS
@@mehreganghadiri because Angel/Angelus was her first. The first always leaves the biggest scars and emotions
@@mehreganghadiri Angel was her first love that’s why lol plus she was a teen
@@bahamute6198 amen!
Remember Spike actually cried when Buffy died. Angel was barely a footnote in the story. Angel said the words but Spike demonstrated his love over and over again.
And then he stayed! He took care of Dawn and kept helping the scoobies long after she passed. He wasn't doing those things to impress her or win her over or manipulate her.
FACTS!!!
I love so much how every time he tried to kill Willow, it always turned into a therapy session between them. I like to think he liked her deep down like how he genuinily liked Joyce
And the Nibblet.
Mordecai Weston omg him bringing flowers to Buffy’s house as condolences, no name or card, was one of many huge turning points for me seeing that he hadn’t lost William completely.
There was a lot of William in Spike. He did good before the chip or the soul. And he absolutely liked Joyce. Who never treated him like a freak.
@@kurtsnyder4752 I always loved how he had nicknames for all the special people in his life lol Goldilocks, Niblet, Red lol he even eventually started to refer to Xander as "the boy"
@@damnitnanet122 Thought it was cute until I thought that maybe it was that he was saying Dawn would be just a little snack(See Le Seur Minnesota's own Jolly Green Giant and his miniature companion, Nibblet). Maybe not so cute then. Of course, when they were hunting forthose egg things, I knew he was not meaning it in any sort of harmful way. Treated her like an older brother(in *prospective*law), or an uncle.
Spike was a better character than Angel, even in Angel's own show.
I respectfully disagree angel in my opinion was more interesting and in Buffy Spike was pretty much a angel replacement
@@randomskits4454 I don’t think spike is an replacement cas he fight to get his soul don’t think that angel could ever do it lol
@@heikit8767 they needed something different they can’t just have the same thing that happened to angel happened to spike that would be boring
@@randomskits4454 yea so they are different not like spike is a replacement he is much more hot and fit then angel angel became a fat ass in his spinoff lately I mean at least angel couldn’t have those abs 😂
@@heikit8767 but spike was a replacement he played the same kind of role in Buffy that angel did
I completely agree with this. If you compare Spike and Angel back before they became vampires, they were complete opposites as well. When Spike was William he was kind, a bit shy, took care and loved his mother and was a poet. Angel when he was Liam was a spoiled drunk man whore who hated his father. Angel accepted Darla to change him into a vampire and then he went and murdered his entire family including his younger siblings. Spike did not accept Drusilla turning him into a vampire right away but when he became one his first thought was to change his mother because she was dying and he wanted to save her. It backfired of course and he had to kill her when she was vampire. When Angel was Angelus he created destruction for Buffy, hated her and wanted everything she loved gone. Spike, without his soul, still ended up falling in love with her and ended up helping her many times. Angel only helped because he had his soul. When Spike got his soul back you can see William in him in so many ways. Buffy and Spike is definitely my OTP.
Angel's first name was Liam not Ian
Okay but can you explain the attempted rape?!?!
@@jesseflake4322 Thank you, fixed it. 👍
@@luckyan1978 They're just saying that compared to Angelus Spike without a soul was a better person. Not that he was a good person without a soul but at least he tried.
@@luckyan1978 I believe it was stated that Angelous raped the tribe girl. Plus huffy still trusting dawn with him after that adds a lot even though he wasn’t there. Finally doing that horrific act made him get his soul which later led to buffs forgiving him and in the comics dating him,
if buffy doesnt want him i will gladly take him
Me too
You’ll have to go through me first lol
Me too
Me to
Same
I’m living for his talk with Willow “I know I’m not the kind of girl vamps sink their teeth into,oh you’re like a sister”. And Spike goes “don’t be ridiculous I’d bite you in a heartbeat”. LOVED IT!!!!
Underrated scene!!!
James Masters is just amazing. Spike could have been a throwaway character, but he gave him depth & made him fun & just put a lot of love into the making of his character.
I feel his and Dawn's relationship is underrated, he looks out for her like an older brother and that scene where he reached out to comfort her than recoiled when she turned to him was great. I also like how disgusted he was by the buffybot coming on to him s6e1
agreed! he looked after her even after buffy died, not expecting anything in return for his help. spike showed up and looked after dawn to help her, as i see it he truly kept his promise to buffy that he made before the big glory fight, which was to protect her til the end of the world. she also really felt safe with him, as she has stated before and how after tara died dawn wanted to go to spikes cript.
Right? I was kind of mad they never resolved their relationship in S7 smh....they literally had more heart-warming scenes together than Her and Xander yet they chose to give Xander an unearned resolution to his character arc that to me...was not earned.
Such a big difference between Xander & Willow's understanding of Buffy & Spikes relationship. One of the reasons why I disliked Xander so much. One of the reasons Xander hated Spike so much is that he knew that Spike would always have more of a chance with Buffy than he would, whereas Willow never judged Buffy or Spike for the feelings they had for each other.
Very true, even Xander had it in for Angel, because of this particular reason.
Xander never did it for Buffy she always saw him as friend so he got friendzoned real quick which is why I think the other girls he got involved with are always the rebound because he couldn't have Buffy. Even Willow knew this when Xander asked her to go to the dance with him Willow wasn't stupid she even called him on it he only asked her to the dance because Buffy was the one he wanted. Even years later Xander is still bitter because Buffy dated every other guy but him he really had it in for Spike & Angel even when Buffy was turned into a vampire briefly he still thought she was hot. Spike understood Buffy & she no doubt couldn't believe that of all that people that understood her most it would be her enemy, turned friend, turned lover, turned partner that turns out to be a vampire Spike. She probably had hoped it would've been Angel but he had too many hangups unlike Bella who should've dropped Edward because he was bad for her. Buffy knew Angel wasn't good for her & turned him loose & moved on they did try a relationship again but it didn't work out & Buffy walked away & didn't look back. See Anna & Bella this is what a real woman would do when you know a guy that is bad for you is bad for you it hurts but you get over it Buffy did.
Nahh ... you can't forget what Spike did to him by sleeping with Anya. And Xander also couldn't forget that Spike almost raped Buffy. His character is one that doesn't forgive others easily. Yeah, maybe he always felt something for Buffy. But thats not the main reason he hated Spike.
@@barbaraberenyiesterhazy900 thats not totally true. Both Spike and Anya talked bad about Buffy and Xander before hooking up in the magic shop. But of course they didn't know about the camera and they drank alcohol out of frustration. In the end, they did what they did and that hurt Xander and Buffy massively.
@@barbaraberenyiesterhazy900 I guess they both wished they could just forget their own feelings and hurt Buffy and Xander without hurting themselves. That's true. I love Spike, will always. But Xander hated him for a few good reasons.
I am so glad you included the clip where Tara opened the blinds on the RV, burning Spike, and he assures her that it’s ok because it’s amusing her. Not only are most humans not that compassionate but he wasn’t just doing it for Buffy’s sake, it was genuine compassion.
Also, thanks for including the comparison to Angel. Without his soul, Angel killed Jenny - someone Buffy and her friends were close to, drawing attention to it to make it even more painful for them - to prevent her from giving him his soul back. Spike went and intentionally endured several rounds of torture to get his soul back. Angel tormented Buffy and her friends without his soul; Spike fought to save Buffy and her friends’s lives over and over again, even after she died, when it couldn’t be a way to impress her.
Seriously, love this video.
His reaction when she jumped...made me sob. I felt his heart breaking.
My heart broke for him
I cried with him when I saw what her death did to him, he truly loved her without his soul.
Exactly, those small details in his scenes, the haters will never see lol that is why people ship them..not cause of their toxic phase in S6. It's the whole dynamic and what it became in the end that is important. But even in the midst of the pre-s7 era, there were moments like that one where we pull our liking for him comes from. It's so simple lol but people waste their time on here judging and labeling people like people who like them are just twisted lol these are fictional characters anyways but regardless, Spike is the only soulless vamp that we could watch show any of the kindness that he showed. Doesn't mean it's all going to be rainbows cause yea duh he is still soulless but we can still point out when bad people try and do something right...that's how bad people can become good.
I really thought they should end up together when he still helped her friends after she died. At that point, nothing tied him to them. The person he loved was gone, he had no obligation to them. He could have left because no doubt he was reminded of her all the time in Sunnydale. And not only did he stay, but he HELPED them. And when he counted the days.... oml. It broke my heart when she asked how long she was gone and he replied with the EXACT NUMBER OF DAYS. And he said that he dreamed of saving her every night she was gone. He’s probably my favorite character.
And yet Buffy was so rude and ungrateful! Always hitting him and talking him down, it’s like “bitch, spike hung out with your sister just because and always kept her safe!” That alone should have earned him respect. Ugh
Agreed. The ‘how long was I gone?’ Scene very well might be my favorite in the show.
He stayed because he had promised to look after Dawn. And did.
I wished she had been nice to Spike and given him a chance instead of being so mean and hateful to him.She should've allowed herself to be loved.She treated him like 💩
The “play peekaboo with Mr. Sunshine all you like” bit was so small, yet it cemented my love for Spike. Even without a soul, Spike is compassionate even towards people he doesn’t like very well.
YES!
Yes even towards Xander and I can’t stand Xander!
@@lessismore8533 That moment when Spike tackled Caleb to protect Xander tho…🥲
He is incredibly compassionate, which is even shown with Dru. She was very strange, but he always did his best to be caring with her. As much as he likes violence he really knows how to connect with women.
I never could understand why people didn't see that Spike was the only choice. He loved her so unconditionally that he chose to get his soul back for her. He suffered so much for her in so many ways and she never appreciated it. And Spike is so incredibly hot on top of it all. I loved him to bits
I added this above, but I felt it merited reposting here:
I'd like to point out, that spike didn't retrieve his soul on purpose for Buffy. He went to that demon to have the chip removed so he could finally kill buffy. In the end, the demon double-crossed him and twisted his words. Spike asked to be the way he was, meaning the way he was before the chip was installed, but instead, the demon gave him his soul back.
Don't get me wrong, Spike is my favorite character on Buffy, and I love his redemption arc, but I find it ironic that people overlook the fact that he didn't go to get his soul back, he wanted revenge. It was only in the next season opener that the rambling, confused Spike claimed to have gotten his soul back for her. I think the writers were doing some backpedaling after the attempted rape at the end of the previous season.
@@aaronhanten6830 You're right. It probably was writer back pedaling. I'm so crazy about Spike that I easily overlooked that point. But I still feel like he was her best choice. Being a demon, it was natural that he'd want to kill her. And he hated and resented the fact that he was in love with her l. It's in the DNA of all demons to want to kill the Slayer and here he was with his whole unlife reviving l revolving around her. It was making him crazy. But it still comes down to the fact that he really did love her. Angel loved her too but he wasn't trying to overcome his demon nature to do it. I think. I haven't watched it in quite a while. I need to watch it again. I can't remember if he was in love with her before the chip or not. If he wasn't, then maybe his love wasn't any more pure than Angel's. But Spike is still my favorite
well said! Spike is the only choice! his transformation from demon to man is wonderful (he is one of the best written TV characters)
In general I like all the characters in BTVS (except Xander and Dawn), they all grow up, but Angel seems fixed to me, never changes, always crying on himself .. when he tells Spike that he is still suffering from the curse of the gypsies and on the contrary Spike, after a short time in a basement, is fine, I thought it is normal because Angelus is always part of Angel, his actions are always motivated by selfishness and, even if good, they are based on an advantage for Angel .. .
Spike is the opposite, at first we see him evil, calculating, but with humanity and, in the end, William wins the demon; he Is the perfect man for Buffy.. Buffy understands this, infact her final choice is Spike, with Angel they have completely separate lives....the real love of Buffy's Life is Spike
Spike is one of the greatest characters ever written, and acted brilliantly by Marster. It is the best example iv ever seen of real love on the big screen. Real.love transforms and we get to see it in both of them. Even after her death he keeps his promise he gave her to protect Dawn. Even without a soul his love wouldn't allow him to break that oath. 💔 Spike was the most Human of all .
@@aaronhanten6830 "I'd like to point out, that spike didn't retriieve his soul on purpose for Buffy. He went to that demon to have the chip removed so he could finally kill buffy. In the end, the demon double-crossed him and twisted his words. Spike asked to be the way he was, meaning the way he was before the chip was installed, but instead, the demon gave him his soul back. " yeah no spike literally says it was for his soul like 5 times in the show. and joss whedon even confirmed it why you talking bullshit
"I fought for my soul almost did me in a dozen times over but i kept fighting because it was the right thing to do"
"i wanted to give you what you deserved to be the kind of man who would never- to be the kind of man"
"saw a man about a girl"
"as daft the notion as soulful spike the killer is nothing compares ot the idea that another girl can mean anything to me, this chip they put in me, but my soul I got on my own... for you."
when spike attempted rape against buffy he literally saw himself as a monster who wasn't worthy of her afterwards. and went to become the kind of man she deserves
The thing I love about spike is he literally did all this without a soul. Loved,protected,grieved all of it when he should have had zero care or morality. Then wanting to be worthy of her goes through the agony of getting his soul back. Yes the chip made it so he couldn't harm humans but the rest was all him. His heart. His character development is my favorite. 🖤
You just perfectly explained why he's my favorite character ever created.
Totally agree - and when Angel was without his soul he was a total A-hole! Spike was funny, compassionate and capable of love so deep he endured torture, even with no soul. It was beautiful.
We all know Spike should have been Buffy's endgame but if we are honest, Spike deserved better.
💯
Fuck yeah 🤘🏻
She used to beat him up all the time and that pissed me off 😡
No
@Li I'm not defending rape but he still had no soul at the moment, he didn't know she was injured and their previous sex games were pretty rough.
I dont know if I missed it, but in the Gift when Spike says:"I know youll never love me.I know that Im a monster. But you treat me like a man...." oh the Feels!!!! Spike - Warrior poet.
I have always loved Spike. Angel only loved her with a soul, when it was gone he literally tried to murder her but up to season 7 Spike had no soul yet still loved her and he suffered three rounds of torture for her!!!
S7 spike had a soul is think u mean s6/s5?
I meant to say up until season 7, sorry I just missed the word until 😂
Amen to THIS. It’s no doubt Spike is a deeper written character than Angel. At least in Buffy. In the Angel series, I see other sides of Angel but it’s still not as deep to me
The fact that spike was able to be this kind without a soul is why I like them together.
It's nice to know that in the comics they actually date, and while they break-up in S12 they also talk about getting back together and are seen together and at peace at the end of the series. So I chose to believe they did get back together and that she did chose Spike.
Wow. 😀😍. Im very happy. Thank you. 💗
I realize no relationship is perfect but Buffy and Spike's was a pretty good one with only one huge problem between them which was the attack. Buffy even ended up forgiving him for it. He literally did the worst thing possible because he was in the worst place possible. I think the only reason why people who ship Spuffy overlook that is because Spike worked time and time again to earn back the trust of not only Buffy but the entire gang. I don't condone what Spike did but I see why the gang was able to move past it eventually.
And no Angel bashing intended but when Spike did a horrible thing he not only worked to get his soul back but also repeatedly worked for redemption but Angel in season 2 just expected to get forgiven for everything, including murder, because he got his soul back.
That is the main reason I prefer Buffy with Spike. He loved her without a soul(unlike Angel) and didn't issue ultimatums even when they disagreed(unlike Riley). He always loved her for exactly who she was and he loved the people she loved because he got to know them; it wasn't just a byproduct of his love for her.
Preach 👏
The other element that a lot of people forget is that sex and violence went hand in hand in every aspect of their relationship. The first time they had sex, they were beating the crap out of each other 2 seconds before. So within the dynamics of their relationship, there was always an element of violence. In some ways, she was even abusive towards him. Beating him up only to be like "j/k let's bone" in the next episode. She even admits to using him. So in that scene in the bathroom, the second he realizes "oh she actually means 'no' this time" he is instantly mortified by his actions.
@@LivyRivy Very true. He even says in the scene that he knows she likes it rough and his breakdown when he realizes she really didn't want to do it was amazing acting on James Marsters part.
Krisstina Wilson there is just one comment I would like to make. I agree with you to a point. I believe Angel loved Buffy but inherently Angel was weak. I believe the demon who had control of his body destroyed the people Angel loved because:
1) Angel who was present although he does not always remember it was suffering watching those he love suffer and die.
2) If, as a demon, you want to maintain control of the vessel you are inhabiting you must destroy the people who have the greatest probability of inspiring the soul to fight against you.
3) Even though the demon was the one who committed those crimes, it did it in your body so it is automatic for the soul to feel guilty for crimes it did not commit. By wearing your body, violating the trust and love others have for you and using it to torture and eventually kill them the demon is also torturing you! This weakens the soul and ensures that the demon stays in control.
@@drcnicole And I agree with you to a point. I don't think the demon inside Angel is to blame for the actions Angelus, or Angel for that matter, committed. Like you said, Angel was kind of weak as he let the demon take control and even as a human was not that good of a person except to his sister. To that extent, I understand from Angel's point of view that losing his soul and having a demon commit horrible acts is a violation of a person's spirit.
I always liked the fact that there was such a grey area over his soul. With Angel, it was so binary - Angel good, Angelus evil. It was so easy for the audience to differentiate between the two and forgive Angel for the sins of Angelus. With Spike it was so much more complicated.
The way he looks at her when he sees her coming down the stairs, the way he counts the days, the way he saves her every night. And he didn’t have his soul yet! He was already a good man! ♥️♥️. Such a beautiful love story. So wish they’d televised seasons 8 to 12. I need more Spike! 😊
The best episode? The engagement...Giles blind but can hear the smacking and the looks on Xander & Anya's faces...hilariously genius!
I always read things about Spike being abusive to Buffy but...is everyone forgetting that she was, in fact, the initial abuser? He couldn't hit her back (much like many men won't hit a woman) and she punched him every time she seen him. Once he found out in S6 he could hit her, he had no soul so decided to take revenge. After they became intimate he knew he could hit her and didn't but she still hit him. Then there was the attempted rape which was of course abhorrent and there was no excuse. His redemption was based around what he did which is questionable but it is still storytelling. People change for all sorts of reasons IRL. I think it was a toxic relationship but you cannot say Buffy didn't hold any responsibility for that. she abused her power and decided she didn't want to be that person anymore. and so did he. in the end when he got his soul, I think there was love there. It wasn't pure love like Angel and Buffy, but that's why it was more realistic. Adult love is complicated.
I only just finished Buffy (I'm 22!) & I can say it is honestly the best TV Show I've ever watched. I love Spike so much and admire and respect him for all he went through to prove and redeem himself to Buffy. I wish I was alive when this show came out, it feels so weird to be completely in love with the Buffyverse now even though everyone has aged since then!
I know how you feel. I almost always get into shows (or books or movies) long after they've already finished. I first watched Buffy in 2010. It's a bittersweet feeling. Like, you love being a part of the fandom now, but you'll always wish you could've experienced it live, at its height. Anyway, welcome to the Buffyverse! Have you watched Angel yet?
One of the really interesting things I don’t think anyone has mentioned- after Buffy’s death, he has Willow reprogram Buffy-Bot, to be more like the real Buffy- which means removing the love-programme... & you see him freak out a little when a glitch lets some of the old programming leak through - that he grew enough to go from play-acting with Harmony, to getting the Buffy-Bot, to wanting the real thing- foregoing any substitutions, & just focusing on the mission of protecting Dawn & the gang- regardless of how they felt about him, really does say a lot...
Yes!!!
"Well...we missed the bed again."
"Lucky for the bed."
Spike is Buffy’s best ever love interest and I will die on this hill
All these scenes really make me question the writers’ decision to make spike attack Buffy. It just seems completely incompatible with all his character growth.
I felt like the writers were constantly backpedaling on any progress Spike and Buffy made in the growth and deepening of their connection. It was like they were trying to push them one step forward then two steps back, and that rape attempt was a really bad idea. On the other hand it was the catalyst to make him feel so sorry that he went and got back his soul.
Same, in season 5 he tells buffy (who he thinks is the bot) that he would get tortured to death to spare her the pain of losing Dawn, later he states that he would die to avenge her, that is not the spike they show in season 6
@@thecaptain6184 well at times it is. Like when he was singing with her in OMWF. But THAT scene is just....so far out of place
@@BreezeOnTheLake the only positive from that incident
Well that's just wrong. All the back and forth of Spike's character is made on purpose, the goal being to show you don't change that easily. He is trying very hard to change, to be someone who could really be with Buffy, but he is limited by his lack of soul, as it would act as a block for his worst impulses. That is what makes him getting a soul so much more meaningful, that he realises that he could never be hers without it, because at some point, lacking his soul would lead him to harm her, something he promised to never do.
Spike fan...100% and to honest hes the prettiest man in my opinion
👍👍👍 Spike is literally the most beautiful man I have ever seen. 😍
An argument people usually make against Spike: "he sexually assaulted her."
Yes. He did. That's never been denied. But as a survivor of sexual assault myself, if my abuser had shown one *ounce* of the remorse that Spike did, I would be worlds closer to forgiveness and healing. Even outside of my personal experiences, the first thing Spike does after he assaults Buffy is leaves town to get his soul back. He crossed a line and he knew it. His character is one of the few I've seen that truly can be redeemed--in part, too, because he never asks for forgiveness, and instead respects that he can never make up what he did.
Thank you! Xander getting upset about it makes me even madder because when HE assaulted Buffy he just pretended he lost his memory so he didn't have to deal with it. Spike deliberately got his soul back because he felt he couldn't trust his moral conscious anymore without it.
You are right, plus he still didn't have a soul. So if we can excuse Angel, we can excuse Spike.
He didn’t even have a soul at the time! I feel like we have to look at the soulless vampires as animals, to an extent. Or sociopaths. They literally can’t understand certain nuances of morality. The logical progression of Spike’s thoughts must have been something like “if I can just get her to have sex with me again, she’ll remember how great we are together.” And their sexual beginning was ALWAYS fraught and no/yes. Intellectually she didn’t want to have any kind of sexual relationship with him but she was drawn to him in a powerful way that she didn’t want to resist. So their encounters usually started with a literal fist fight that then led to sex. It was weird to begin with! I can see that as creature with no innate empathy or moral compass would misunderstand his own actions, here.
huh when tf did xander assult buffy @@therealnarnia5117
The thing is though how would spike have known she actually meant what she said that time, they should have had a safe word considering how they were.
Totally agree with all the reasons here... Buffy and Spike's relationship was so much more real and evolved naturally. And, like you said, he was so much more likable without a soul and he fought for his soul, whereas Angel was cursed with his soul twice. He did nothing to earn it, or Buffy. Plus, by the end of season 7, the only characters I liked in Buffy were herself, Spike and Anya!
I would have chosen Spike. Not only was he more committed to Buffy than A, but he was funny.
" Cup of tea, cup of tea, almost got shagged, cup of tea, cup of tea" 😂😂🤣😂🤣😂
I can`t believe I only discovered BTVS last Christmas! Too busy in the 90s to watch much TV. All those years without Spike. How have I survived? This is a great vid., tells it like it is.
I cannot count how many times I have gone on rewatching marathons
I discovered Buffy the last year so
...🤜🤛
but back then, you still had traces of Billy Idol... same thing.
He.Counted.The.Days.
100% #1
Makes my heart ache to think that someone out there could love someone that much. I wish for that kinda love.
or maybe he's just really good at math.
I have dreamt of that kind of love my entire life.. and have never found it... I still have hope
I have been saying this for years. Angel was cursed with a soul. Spike fought for his. For HER!
Spike really was right for her and she just wouldnt let herself love him. I think they are meant for each other.
Reason #11: He’s drop dead gorgeous lol
After hurting Buffy, Spike left without hesitation on his motobike, giving himself the greatest punishment, apologizing for what he had done to Buffy, and returning to Buffy as a better man. And buffy forgave him
And he sacrificed himself for Buffy even though he didn't believe she would love him. Unconditional Spike's love was the greatest of all
And he took care of Buffy's sister and helped her friends to keep her promise even in a world without Buffy. When there was no hope she could come back...
I have always chosen Spike over Angel. It’s a no brainer. I like to think an alternate universe Buffy and Spike are together forever.
But they are! In the comics, I mean)
There is a reason he's described as the most developed character in the Buffyverse & these scenes show the best of it.
He was the best part of the show
Love this so much. They end up together in the comics.
Comics is not as interesting. The TV series was amazing...
these emotions, this chemistry.
Seriously ? They end up together in the comics. THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION . I go read the comics !
I haven’t read the comics, but I believe they do break up in the end. 😕
@@GemofAmara Noooooooo 😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪
Who had read the comics and Who can give me an answer ?
That bonus clip of what angel was like without a soul 🤣🤣🤣 Oh my God that was the best!!!!! Timing absolutely perfect
haha Thanks!
She did choose him in the end when angle came back and help her with the evil priest she choose him and told angle to leave.
“I know, I’m a monster...but you treat me like a man.”
I always loved Spike. Bad boy But able to change. Well with the help of a demon
Well, the demon gave him what he *wanted* - the physical ‘proof’ of his choice & change, but he’d grown emotionally before that point, & what he *needed* , was for Buffy to see it, & believe it.
Jaime Bee
That was, in fact, what I meant; his soul was the *proof*
Jaime Bee
I honestly don’t think he’d ever _choose_ to become human- at least not at that point, because he’d be leaving Buffy vulnerable without his supernatural strength- & he wouldn’t do that to her; he was always willing to fight by her side, against any enemy - we saw how bad her relationship with Riley went, with the power imbalance- & he was a super-soldier, & thus stronger than a regular human.
Jaime Bee
Agreed!
Spike was kind even as a vampire without a soul .
I was a Bangel fan first and then I re watched all 7 seasons again after 17 years and now I know better what Love, Compassion, Relationship, Lust and Struggle for each other and so on is for myself and to others. To not see Spuffy as the righteous choice for her is more about your personal feelings and dreams for the other two rather than the true love Spuffy pours out for each other. What I see in Buffy and Spike is something other then a temporary love affair. I see something larger, hotter, more honest love than the teenage crush she had for Angel.
Angel was a teenage love, a summer crush where she was young, stupid, naive, inexperienced and blind to what true love is and what that means. He was that first love that a girl has for her puppy, a love that is more about reverence and feeling sorry for the lost little Angel who wanders around Sunnydale like a lost puppy or a stray dog with his shy insecure smile lurking on his face. Angel is weak mentally as well as physically. When Angel has a soul, he radiates insecurity, immaturity, caution, modesty and wanders around lost and aberrant in Buffy's vicinity.
Then when he loses his soul, he becomes even weaker as he cannot resist the demons he has in him. He becomes utterly evil and slaughters helpless women, children and men for pleasure more than for his hunger. He wants to erase the human race without remorse. To get Angel under some sort of control, he must first have a soul and then see to it that he never feels happiness and love for another woman again. Who kills Angel? Buffy does. Even when he is restored to the dull gray Angel again she drives the sword through his heart and send him to hell...where he belongs. She never kills William.
Spike is everything Angel wants to be but will never reach or fulfill. Spike is a leader an individual and the Alpha male who rules over his own body and rules over his inner demons. He is in full control. He is younger, he is twice as strong as Angel physically and ten times stronger mentally. He radiates a self-confidence and status over himself that no one can upset or access. The only person who makes him knee weak is Buffy. Spike loves Buffy without a soul and helps Buffy and the rest of the Scooby gang against evil creatures. He protects Buffy's little sister Dawn with his own life at stake. He is subjected to cruel, bloody torture without even uttering a word where the Key is (Dawn). He never harms Buffys friends and her closed ones and always listen and support Buffy in her guidance and her struggles she have in everything they do. Even when he comes to her house with a shotgun in his hands to shoot her for his pain and misery he has towards her, he lower the gun immediately when he sees her crying and is in her weak mode and is unstable. He sits with her, holding her and comforts her. Their share the pain they have for each other. The very last night together is Spikes best night ever. They don´t have sex they have much more meaningful night then that. A close intimate night together just holding each other and being close to one and another. That´s Love.
He recognizes her first of them all when she comes down the stairs by just looking at her eyes and the way she moves. He knows, he feels, he senses her immediately. He has counted every 147 days as a loss in his life and that he has counted these days in pain and sorrow. He knows her the best and better than she knows herself inside out. They both know that they are right for each other and that Spike always wants to be with her because she needs him more than he needs her. Spike knows this therefor he is close to her so that she can take out her despair and anger on him and be the punching bag she needs to have because he can take it. That´s what scares Buffy that Spike is so genuinely pure open and honest towards her about his feelings for her that she does not know how to handle it. She is afraid that he will burn her heart. Eventually she wakes up and give him her love. True couples fight, argue, yell, grow, mature, support each other, make each other stronger and have intense passionate love and sex. That is the Hallmark of Spuffy.
He becomes a GOOD person without feeling anything but pure love for Buffy. He performs great deeds and is a strong cog in the life of Buffy and her friends. He constantly wants to improve in front of Buffy and protect and support Dawn. Once he gets his soul back, he performs even greater deeds and perishes with the city of Sunnydale to save the masses of the people. He helps Buffy and trains slayer girls of tomorrow to fight right and to make them more skilled, confident and stronger. If this is not the purest love a man can have for his girlfriend and her friends but also for the inhabitants of Sunnydale and for mankind in general...Nothing is. He is the backbone the guardian of the Summers Family and the strongest and closest allied the Scooby gang has. He sacrifices his life for Buffy. He died for his Love for Buffy so that she, Dawn, Willow, Xander and her Slayer friends would survive and he asked for nothing in return. All he wanted was to show that he was no longer a demon but a Man who does good deeds for the people he love and for ordinary people. Williams Love for Buffy and the rest of humanity he regained, saved the entire world from the Hellmouth. To have come this far Spike went through voluntary death fights and torture a second time just to get his soul back. He would have done all of this with a soul or souless. This is strength in its purest shining form and the greatest love of them all.
To produce a rape scene was probably more to soil down Spike's role as the good hearted Spike became more and more a room-clean character in everyone's eyes. That he would do this evil deed against the woman he is willing to sacrifice everything for is more ugly and unrealistic than logical. Spike was Buffy's sex toy and he felt more like a sex slave to her as he never had the guts or the heart to say no to her closeness. He wanted so much more that he was always available for her. He had to settle for being ignored by Buffy and the times she wanted his closeness he had to settle for the crumbs she gave him. He wanted her Love and Buffy wanted his great sex performances. Buffys love for Spike came more and more when she realized that she didn't have to hold her guard up in front of her friends around Spike when they starting to accept Spike as an Allied and a friend. Even Giles and Xander accepted Spike as Buffys boyfriend eventually.
This scene in (seeing red) is a product that Spike was becoming more popular than Angel and Buffy combined. He took over the room with his great presence and stamina. The love story of Spuffy was getting stronger in the households at home and Angel was becoming a forgotten character. So they did this rotten scene because of Team Spuffy was a stronger match than Bangel.
Buffy eventually realized that Spike made her alive and without Spike she might have become suicidal. It was Spike who took her out and made her feel alive and the desire to live and feel lust again. All of this grew when she was with Spike. She was at peace and home in his soul, mind and body when she was in the arms and presence of Spike. With Angel she was treated as a defiant child and therefore did not gained trust instead she was lost and weak minded teenage girl. With Spike who boosted her she became a strong young grown up woman with self-esteem who got praise and support from Spike. Angel held her down and Spike lifted her up.
SMG as an bangel fan is more her own memories with the person of David than the character of Angel and their chemistry together on the set rather then rational thinking. Freddie could easily be her Angel the resemblance is there. If Spike was Angel and Angel was Spike she would have gone with the character David was playing. I think her personal preferences is dark haired dark eyed men. Second is that it is Buffys first love and that Angel was mysterious and hard to get into. Personal he is just lame and pale to Buffy and Spike was opposite with so much presence and colorful in his personality. Maybe also a desire to feel that one's teenage love can last a lifetime, and that it is a more popular opinion through the mainstream eye of Hollywood lenses. She will personal never admit none of this in public because it´s the "wrong" guy for the fans but in secret I think that she thinks that William was the man of her life. The man she settles down with now when she is an middle age woman and has experience and can look back she realizes that Spike was The One. Angellus was a crush William was first WOW then for the long haul into eternity.
Deep down with neutral eyes and knowledge of true love that we the rest of us have experienced when it comes to love. We see Spuffy for what it truly is and not through the fictional Hollywood bubble. In the real life Buffys savior is Spike. Buffys greatest love is and Will be William. She realize it and eventually goes with it when she can lower her shoulders. We see what Buffy needs and not what the viewer wants. What she needs is Spike by her side who is always there for her. He protects her he comforts her and knows what love, sacrifice and fighting for your love is. She is becoming to be with the man she needs and love. The mature eternal love is William the Lovely. That's the Love Buffy ended up with in the future and so is it written later on. That's what saved her life. Buffy and Spike lived together for the rest of their lives and their love for eachother was eternal. For that I say, AMEN.
Bottom line, kids:
Angel was cursed and FORCED to find his shit. Spike found his shit on his own and thus EARNED it.
Exactly.
In the words of Spike “Angle’s as dull as a table lamp”
best line ever, I know that I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man.
Spike was still compassionate and fell in love with Buffy even when he didn’t have a soul, something Angel could never do. Periodt
I love spuffy. The fact he was a monster but fell in love with buffy and tried to change was amazing., He helped the gang even after her death and looked after her sister. He did so much to prove to buffy he loved her and was there for her. He wanted to earn her trust after he attacked her. He also tried to connect with her friends whereas angel 🤮 never did that and yet he felt he deserved forgiveness. But spike earned it even without a soul he loved buffy and earned forgivness angel was a monster without a soul. Not only that the fact that spike died to save everyone else just shows he had changed
Yes! Spike is one of the best written characters ever! He was evil but love is the strongest forces in the universe.. stinger than evil and it can rescue almost anyone
Buffy did choose Spike. Then he died.
And then he came back and their became a couple in the comics
No she didn’t
@@Shehatesap Of course 😂
I know the comics. I have read them all. They broke up in the end, but they was definitely a couple.
@@Shehatesap she chosed him. You can see in entire 2nd part of season 7
@@markdire1513 do you know what episode
This character is amazing! I mean the way he fell in love with her being evil points to the fact that he had always wanted to be on the good side otherwise he would have never been attracted to someone like Buffy. And his compassion to her when she learnt about her mother’s illness ( even without the soul) isn’t it the best!
Yes very true! It proves the William I’m Spike was never really gone. But nothing was strong enough to trigger it! Until Buffy came into his life
Spike protected Dawn like a daughter
I used to be a big bangel fan when I started watching the show.
No disrespect to those who still do ( I mean even SMG says she's bangel).
I really like Spuffy because i think the chemistry between those two is gold even when they were enemies. I love the whole enemies then friends and then lovers part thing.
I think people forget though that even though Buffy reacted indifferently to Spike at times she was in fact in love with him too.
You see a lot of it during season 7 ( especially with telling Angel basically to go away and confess her feelings for Spike) as well as during season 6 and even a tiny part in season 5.
Reason 11. His accent
Reason 12. He is just too damn cute
...
There is a monumental difference between Angel and Spike.
Angel got his soul back as a curse when he didn't want it.
Spike got his soul back as a reward when he did want it.
That's why Angel has 200 years of remorse, and Spike only had three weeks sulking in a cellar.
William was a BEAUTIFUL man full of compassion. He was good BEFORE he was bad. When he was granted the ability to be a complex human being (soul), he was able to reach his fullest potential as a vampire.
Angel NEVER has this and that is why his character as a human and as a vampire was toxic and full of drama!
Spike exemplifies humanity in the later seasons. James did the best job and taught us all what it means to take the past and use it to create a better present person
Plus Spike fought for his Soul. Angelus had a Soul forced on him.
It's funny that this video is perfect example, why even soulless Spike deserved to be with Buffy. We don't even need to go on about the hero he became, after he got he's soul back.
People will start about the seeing red scene non-stop, even though he(soulless Spike) redeemed himself, by going through hell to become a better man and deserve forgiveness.
Gwen _ST I’m in the process of making a video specifically about THAT SCENE since a lot of people can’t seem to get over it. Perhaps they don’t fully understand how the soul works in the Buffyverse. 🤷♀️
@@GemofAmara thank you ❤
@@GemofAmara I think it's not just the soul, but also the context of the scene. Both Buffy and Spike abused each other so much in the second half of season six that the line became extremely blurred, so when it came to a point that Buffy really meant "no," Spike didn't recognize it as a stop kind of no until the very last second. At that point, Spike realized he had done wrong, STOPPED, and then ran away to repent for what he had done, ! all without a soul ! to tell him all that. I feel like people put Buffy into this helpless woman stereotype that they only see this scene in back and white, all the while ignoring the before and after. Buffy deserves better than that. (And thanks for making this video.)
Cynthia Monique Yes! I completely agree. Very well put. 👍 And I’m so happy you enjoyed the video.
@@GemofAmara For you spuffy lovers,you don't know how painfull coulde be a attempt RAPE or in my case,A RAPE and trie defending a disgusting situation and even worse keeping shipping that shit as couple !Don't make a lame excuse to redeeme his action ,becouse in real life ,a rapist is a rapist or sexual ofender there is no redemption.
"I'd bite you in a heartbeat." Awwwwwww
#TeamSpike
Angel and Spike remind me of Stefan and Damon. The gentle soul with a killer past vs the bad boy who changed for a woman.
Except it should be stefan and damon remind you of spike and angel timeline wise
gonzo0071 How dare you compare Angel and Spike to Stefan and Damon. Stefan and Damon are like babies compare to them.
@@2010jocey If you watch both series', you'd see that TVD took the same storylines and redid them for Stefan and Damon. Hell, the whole cast of Buffy was just modified in TVD. Then go back and look at the storylines and you'll see TVD is a reboot of BTVS.
Buffy = Elena
Angel = Stefan
Spike = Damon
Willow = Bonnie
Xander = Matt
Giles = Alaric
Cordelia / Anya = Caroline
Dawn = Jeremy
Oz = Tyler
Chick you got it all wrong
@@gonzo0071 I'm not saying you're wrong, but most shows like that have the same type of characters. The bad boy/good guy love interest love triangle, the mentor, the best friend, the mean girl, the jock, the annoying/naive younger sibling, etc. They are all common tropes in teen television shows.
Buffy was stupid no one ever will love her as much as spike did 🤦🏻♀️
I mean, he voluntarily fought to have his soul back for her, he let Glory beat him up almost to death, to protect Dawn for her. He was always looking after Dawn, for her. He helped the scoobies gang a lot. He counted the days when Buffy was death, he loved Joyce like a mother, all without a soul. Angel, as soon as he lost his soul, all he did was torture Buffy and her friends, killed Jenny, brought the Judge back to destroy the world. Spike was 1000% better than Angel, in any ways. HE always had a bit of humanity on him. Angel was good only because he had a soul, that was forced on him.
Yep. Angel treated her like a slightly dim child. Spike treated her well.
*COMIC BOOK SPOILER*
Buffy and Spike do end up together in the comic book and currently live together. (:
As I understand it, Buffy is left with a character named Immortal. It does not stay with angel or spike
@@alejandromendez4720 Again, coming from the comic book.. *MORE SPOILERS*
That is not actually Buffy but a look-a-like to bait someone going after Buffy. Perhaps you missed what I said, that this is from the comic that continues from where the show was left off.
Thank you! I just finished the series for the first time and I needed this to hang onto 😂 I don't know how it works but I'll take it!
Evvivaaa
This is the happiest spoiler of my life. It made my day, thank you
Thank you so much for this insightful video. Well done! Angel was her first love and that’s special! However Spike was her adult partner and the depth and breadth of the relationship was much greater and stronger!! I loved how you showed Spikes growth for both friendships and the love of his life Buffy. Thank you again for bringing us great memories of a fantastically written and acted series!!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. 🙂
Yeah... the Spuffy feels ❤️
Such a great show. I started watching it back in 2002, which was considered late at the time. It's sad that no one I tell today to watch it doesn't even give it the time of day.
I believe that I was watching it in 1999-2000.
as a kid I loved her and Angel, rewatched Buffy and Angel a few years ago, and I couldn't picture Buffy with anyone but Spike.
same goes for Angel and Cordelia.
That's most likely because Angel and Buffy are like Romeo and Juliet. Two star-crossed lovers who can't be together because of destiny or something like that. Yeah, really speaks to the romantic and the teenager who just fell in love for the first time and doesn't believe that they will feel anything similar to this ever again, but the older you get and the more you realise that a healthy relationship is not just based on "blind love", which in of itself is something that doesn't even really exit, but on so much more like trust and friendship, things Buffy and Angel always lacked, the more you (hopefully) start to get annoyed with these easy, childish displays of romance in media.
The sad truth is that putting relationships like Buffy and Angel on a pedastel, and acting like this is what a true romance should be about, is actually harmful. If you take a step back, you realise that Buffy and Angel serioulsy are a prototype version of Bella and Edward, only that Buffy has way more agency as a character than Bella and hence the relationship can never last since Buffy is there to outgrow her childhood, to transition into being an adult while Bella is just there to be a never aging bland surface onto which the reader can project herself. And from the already pretty toxic Bella/Edward relationship it is not a far jump to the absolute disgusting and toxic relationship in 50 Shades, which was based off Twilight after all. Because of this, there should not have been a hint in Chosen that one day Buffy and Angel might end up together since they are not good for each other, but Wheadon, like too many other writers, apparently couldn't help himself to continue to perpatuate this trope.
gotta say though, I hated were they took Cordelia in the last seasons of Angel bc they basically wrote her off and completely disregarded most of her character arc, and yk, the part where she slept with Angel's son was absolutely terrible
@@esotericopia2854 That was basically Joss Wheadon being a dick and punishing Charisma Carpenter for getting pregnent. It's not like there was an easy way out of it - either just write her out at the end of season three by having her ascent or die permanently, or have her do that a year, aka the duration of season 4 and then return in season 5. Yes, I know Stargate did the same thing at the same time but who really cares? It definitely would have been better than what actually happened.
@@GermanLeftist your version of healthy relationship isn't right, assault and stalking aren't normal. Point of the show is neither of the vampires are good for her. They are Vampires
He loved and cared for Buffy even before he got his soul back.
Buffy told him her greatest secret, her friends ripped her from heaven and now this is hell ... and asked him tot to tell them, he never did ...
Angel était un trouduc avant d'être transformé, puis en vampire. Spike, lui, était un être bon. Et il n'a jamais eu besoin de malédiction pour se montrer gentil, avoir de la compassion, et surtout, pour éprouver de l'amour. Toute sa vie de vampire, il a été amoureux fou.
FACTS! Spike with or without a soul fell in love with Buffy. He was tortured so they he could receive a soul by his own will.
Angel was the worst! I couldn’t stand him. Spike redeemed himself in every way possible. Buffy really did love him. ❤️❤️❤️
"Oh, poor watcher. Did your life pass before your eyes? Cup of tea. Cup of tea. Almost got shagged. Cup of tea." 🤣🤣
The Willow and Spike scene was great!
In the end, Buffy never deserved Spike, but I would have loved to see them together if only to make him happy.
They do end up together. The graphic novels are cannon, Sadly with that being the case a few of the main characters are killed in later seasons
Couldn't have said it better myself
11. After her 'resurrection' if she'd come back wrong he wouldn't have let Willow send her back (kill her) = 'Any part of that was Buffy, I wouldn't let her!'.
12. He was her 'quiet place' (because who doesn't need one of those!)
and 13. He added some zing to her life, and though whilst he could be just as dark and intense, and was (at least!) as complex, as Angel, I don't think he would ever be as heavy as him (and if there is one thing Buffy needs in her life its a bit of lightness = I can't imagine Angel ever even watching an episode of 'Passions', let alone caring about Timmy down the well !)
Thank you so much for this - you've got most of my favourites in there (although, weirdly my no. 11 is probably my most favourite, even above him getting his soul back for her, because to me it shows how, even soulless, he loved her more than anyone else [with the possible exception of Dawn, maybe?] and with your no. 9 and that speech [actually him in that whole episode] in no. 8 coming a very, very close joint third).
He literally only did good, FOR Buffy. And that’s why she never allowed herself to be with him. I understand…but it still makes me cry every time🥹💔
Spike is the definition of someone that can change and cure for them more than ever careful themselves! And he f#$%ing cool!
There are two episodes on Buffy that I wanna bring up here now. One is Halloween from season 2 and the other is Tabula Rasa from season 6.
In Halloween, because of magic, our heroes wrongfully think they are somebody else with no memory or knowledge of who or what they really are, like Xander thinks he's a soldier and Buffy thinks she's an eighteen century girl.
In Tabula Rasa, because of magic, they just lose all of their memory, they don't even know their names. In both cases, though, they are thrown into one crisis.
On season two, Buffy is into Angel, and in "Halloween", when her memory is messed up with magic, she barely pays attention to Angel when she sees him. On season six, Buffy is into Spike, and in "Tabula Rasa", when her memory is messed up with magic, she rushes to save Spike once he's attacked, and then the two of them team up to fight the bad guys. See?
"Stay away from Randy!"
Would been awesome to see Buffy and spike get together after season 7
Deanna Saville apparently there is a comic book series, for both Ángel and Buffy. I only read the first issue for angels but spike is in there.
Best Spuffy video that I have seen. Amazing.
Loved Spike. Yes, he was a bad guy. Like...a REALLY bad guy. He went through a pretty dark period. But I kind of feel like that was due to the people he hung around with. Once he started hanging around the Scooby gang he did better things. Angel's soul was a curse. Spike voluntarily went and got his so he could be a better man for Buffy. And William was always a better person than Liam was.
Putting Spike and Angel against each other also shows how you do a redemption arc right and how you don't. Spike is the how to example and Angel is how you screw it up. Both had set backs but where Spike succeeded in the end, Angel is essentially the same person at the end of season five of Angel as he was in season one of Buffy, a guy who is ashamed of who and what he is and who is trying to repay the debt he feels he has to the world, while Spike learned to completely live with who and what he is and do what is right simply because it is right, and he started to develop into that person before he even got his soul back.
I hear in the comics that's canon to the show that they said they loved each other and do end up together.
Thank you! I needed this kind of escapism today 😊
I'm so happy you enjoyed it. ❤
I whole heartedly agree. Spike was better looking, charming, silly, and beats Angel in every way.
And the way he always looked at her with that smile that just screamed “you’re my perfect”
Buffy should have chosen Spike because he does love her, no matter what. That’s true love.❤️
People have in detail explained very eloquently why Spike is vastly superior to Angel across the board. So I'll simply leave my agreement instead.
Spuffy Then
Spuffy Now
Spuffy Forever
William: a poet. Liam:a drunk
I hate to admit it, but even without a soul he was nicer guy than Angel. Angel needed a soul to be nice. And when he was human, he loved his mother, so he was better human than Angel too... Yet there nothing better than a redeemed bad boy.
Even with a soul Angel was a stick in the mud. I loved how when Spike made it to the Angel's show he would point it out all the time.
“Every night I save you” makes me cry every time. Spike was like this even without a soul. And while he did assault Buffy, he felt remorse (WITHOUT A SOUL) and then WENT AND GOT ONE. AND THEN AFTERWARDS DEALT WITH THE PAIN ANS GUILT.
Angel was horrible without a soul and in my opinion barely tolerable with one. Angel would’ve likely raped, tortured, and killed her without a soul.