Buffy the Vampire Slayer Talk || s6e16 "Hell's Bells"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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My favorite tiny detail from this episode is that Clem is sitting on Xander's side. I guess they really bonded while they were stuck in Buffy's house lol.
Clem is my favorite minor character from the Buffyverse.
It says a lot that a pack of demons are more well behaved at a wedding than Xander's father
Those little moments with Buffy and Spike that are real, where he's not being selfishly evil and she doesn't have her guards up, are so freaking good.
Love this
But Souless Spike is way better than Angelus ever was..
Love the way Xander's family is ten times more toxic than a crowd of demons on Anya's side. Shows that for so many, hell is other people.
AMEN
I think the reason Xander waited until this ep to bring up all these fears is because he's been repressing them and trying to convince himself that he won't become his father and everything will be fine. He's been working to overcome his doubts and fears, because he didn't want to derail a good thing. But then the demon's visions just open the floodgates, confirm all his worst fears about himself, and leave him so traumatized that there's no putting the genie back in the bottle afterward. Some part of him was already teetering right on the precipice before this ep, and this incident was all it took to send him fully over the edge.
Precisely. You get it!
This is not a situation you can make rational decisions on when your life has been the way Xander’s has been. He doesn’t communicate his fears before the wedding because he is trying to not be conscious of them himself.
He is trying to be courageous and stop self-sabotaging his relationships like he always does.
It’s so easy to judge him and say “he should have done this, he should have done that”
I’m fairly sure none of us would have had we had the life Xander has and the traumatised psyche to boot. I know I wouldn’t have.
I understand his situation completely. Do I think he is in the right for how he leaves Anya at the altar? No. But I know I wouldn’t be either. It’s a bad situation all around but it was a choice that he made out of uncontrollable circumstances and severe psychological trauma left over from the hell his family put him through. So I won’t judge him.
Xander’s always put Buffy on a pedestal, because of his attraction at first, but mostly because she really is his hero. It makes sense his ultimate bad future would be one without her in it.
I think maybe his attraction to her was mistaken for hero worship in all honesty.
It seemed like just a normal crush on a high school girl at first but as they started to develop the story and with him becoming a part of what she does along with Willow - he started admiring her more for her supernatural abilities and that they were in service of the greater good. I can only think of one time where he didn’t admire her for that and that was when she saved him from a bully and because of his own flawed sense of masculinity he took insult to that - which no doubt his father played a huge part in instilling into him throughout the years - of which we don’t see but - come on… with a father like that, how could it not be that way?
Anyway - when Buffy turned him down romantically - to me he got over it rather quickly and instead looked at her as an idol. So I don’t think the crush on or the attraction to her was really all that deep to be honest. In fact I would say his feelings in that way were more directed towards Willow. He just wouldn’t ever admit it in front of her and instead played around with her.
@@Girl4Music I wouldn't say he got over it rather quickly, he was def jealous up through S2. However, S3 onwards he was over it imho.
D'Hofryn was such great comic relief up until this point that you forget all the possible horrible things he must've done and then he twists the knife at the end. I love the trope where the comic relief turns evil because when you laugh with a character you let your guard down
Xander's (and Anya's) fears and the eventuality of this episode were foreshadowed in the musical episode within their duet. It's so heartbreaking.
“I’ll never tell” 😞
Xander has some very self destructive tendencies. He's completely willing to let himself be blown up and die. But the one thing he truly fears is becoming his father. Is he perfect? No, far from it but he's a great character that gets very little credit.
These are all complex people with even more complex lived histories.
We don’t see much of Xander’s backstory so it’s very easy to judge his problematic behaviour without looking at the source of what makes him behave that way.
This episode tells you plain and clear what that is, but it’s too late in the game.
This is something they should have made the audience aware of ages ago. I mean they do in some ways but it’s not anywhere near enough. He’d get the sympathy of Buffy and Willow and even Giles if they had involved his backstory more in the narrative of each seasonal arc.
They don’t. And with the whole “Whedon insert” thing modern audiences who watch the show today have against him - there is no credit, no understanding and no compassion.
Xander is overlooked as a character. I mean… unless you only want to talk about him negatively he is just ignored and I hate it.
I personally think Selfless was enough to set up this episode and have never felt that this came from nowhere as some do.
@@josephwalker6209 ‘Selfless’ is a Season 7 episode. You mean ‘Restless’.
And yeah, like I said. They sort of show it. But it’s not enough for us to better understand Xander as a character. That could have just been the way HE sees things and not actually the reality of the situation. They don’t give us enough for us to view the character in a way that’s more sympathetic the way they do with Buffy and Willow.
So most people don’t understand Xander and why he behaves the way he does. Most people just think he is a straight up dick with manbaby issues.
And that’s far from the truth.
Then season 7 happens and becomes a character that gets too much credit (imo)
@@treaveannyretro92 that I agree with.
*Sad Riley waiting for Alley to watch his triumphant return.*
I love this episode. I think people tend to forget Xander is like 21 years old! A lot of people this age feel all this pressure to grow up and do what is expected of them, even though they haven't fully discovered themselves to know what they truly want. They have little life experience. This is true for Anya (as human) as much as it is for Xander. Anya has been rushing into this ever since The Replacement when Xander got his first apartment. Then, after the proposal we see her rushing Xander to tell everyone about it. Subtly over the course of this season we see Xander sattled with the anxiety of building his future like when he's talking to Giles in the Halloween episode. I think Xander's proposal was a romantic one, not a fully thought-out one. He probably knew he wanted to get married 'someday' while Anya wanted that day to be asap. People hate on Xander for not addressing b his issues sooner, for leaving her at the ulter etc. But I don't think any of that was ever his intention. Essentially people hatp on him because he didnt know himself well enough to know how he was going to feel and react the day of the wedding, like he is at fault because he has anxiety and doesnt deal with it well enough leading up to it. But how many 20 year olds can you think of really understand their own anxiety and handle it well??? Especially considering this was 2002, not 2023! I think Xander is just dealing with it day by day because he's scared to let Anya down. He may even be scared to let Buffy and Willow down. He is Xander "all grow'ed up" I think thats what he wants to believe and what he wants his friends to believe, so who is he suppose to turn to for guidance? If there's one thing this episode is good at showing us, its that Xander never really had kind of support. No one to help guide him or lead the way. Even the school system let him down in a sense. So again in the previous episode we see Xander lean on Riley for a role model because Riley appears to have it all figured out. If Riley can get married, so can he. So again I think this is just a tragic case of "you dont know until you try" Xander did everything with the knowledge he had. He's just a 20 something trying to figure it all out and makes some mistakes in the process, which ends up causing harm to others. Its sad, and unfortunately but also very realistic and developmentally very normal and common. Who doesn't have a major life lesson from their 20s? Who hasnt had to come to terms with their own character flaws or insecurities in their 20's?
So yeah, I just love this episode. Idk maybe I just relate to the character as well not having the best homelife. Hashtag, the generational is trauma is real, lol.
Thank you for understanding him.
Not a lot of people do. Or want to.
And Giles wasn’t even at the wedding. So he didn’t have his guidance as a male role model to lean on for advice for what to do. Giles failed him as well.
Dead giveaway we were not going to see a wedding happen: we saw the bride in full dress and make-up way before she was supposed to walk down the aisle and we already heard her wedding vows. There was nothing left to reveal at a big ceremony.
Ties in to a trope about characters making plans in shows. If they have the characters talking about the plan before doing the plan, then something will go wrong. But if they say "here's the plan" and then cut away, the plan will succeed because they're about to show it as it's happening.
Many movies & shows simply skip the vows, such as in The Terminal (2004).
Love that we are all so careful not to spoil things for Alley and then she goes and does it to herself. 🤓
I can’t judge Xander for the decisions he makes in this episode, even if I wish Anya and Xander had gotten married. He grew up in a toxic household with an abusive alcoholic father, and his worst fear is that he’s going to turn out exactly like him.
Xander STILL gave into fear
He had Tom’s of friends to help him..
Straight up, I was furious with Xander for what he did to Anya.
He literally left her to explain to everyone that the wedding was off.
Seeing Anya so shattered, especially after hearing her say her vows...😢😭.
That ending scene of her and D'Hoffryn talking and then that look up into the camera with tears running down her eyes and nothing but darkness all around her...amazing shot. And a perfect cliffhanger of "Will she/Won't she hanging there as the credits pull up...good stuff.
Spike's convo with Buffy seemed genuine. Loved that, too.
Tara and Willow vibes reemerging was so cute.😊
I felt second hand embarrassment for Xander's mom from what his dad said out loud about her. Yet, some people stay in toxic relationships for whatever reason.
He definitely would have been better off the child of divorced parents than what he ended up with.
I was never a big Xander fan, although he did have his moments that he showed a better and more mature side of himself.
I thought it was sad that he had to go outside his home life to find examples of manhood and maturity to aspire to.
OMG! You're so close to the end of this season, which...guuurl!
Gobsmacked is probably a more polite way to put it.
Season six is my favorite season, and five is just about almost neck and neck.
Like James told you in that video message he sent to you about season 6. "Hold on tight, because you're in for a ride." No holds bar.
Season 7 drags a little, for me, but some arcs are amazingly well earned.
Also, I was obsessed with Anya's veil for years. Absolutely gorgeous.
No in the last episode (14) it is her, the same character that told spike when he was human that he was beneath her, and it is canon, that is why when they saw each other she looked shocked and said, "William?"
From here on, the rest of the season is smooth sail -- wait, there's that one, and that one, then that one, which leads to that one, and oh, no, that one, and finally that one. (Deep breath.) Buy another box of tissues, Miss Alley.
This episode is one of the constant reminders that happiness is fleeting in this universe. Call not a single relationship seems to go well for long.
Anya is still my favourite character from the show. This episode hurts me every time.
Watching this episode reminded me again of just how beautiful Emma Caulfield was. No wonder she shortly after got the lead in a major motion picture. Horror film, of course.
I always believed dehofran found this guy anya cursed and told him to do this not thatvhe needed convincing to come after xander and anya just so he could break them up. Why now dehofran could have nade her a vengeance demon again in season three but refused but now she is happy and getting married he is willing. Just my crazy theory
I had considered that possibility, too. It's awfully convenient timing for him to somehow get out of the demon dimension Anya sent him to, and we know D'Hoffryn is only acting supportive.
I think it was really smart of the show not to tell us what the demon did to get punished. It’s easy to assume that he got what he deserved but we know that not all of Anya’s victims deserved it. Cordelia was mean but she definitely didn’t deserve to wish she got
He’s called a philanderer in the dialogue.
Don't sweat the out of order-ness... a lot of us who saw it on TV often missed episodes, catching them later in re-runs or syndication... you get to sort of experience that - rare today.
I thought the Wedding episode was very cleverly observed. From the Bridesmaids hating the awful dresses, to the culture clash between the two families, the obsessiveness of the Bride, the doubts about getting married at all etc. All these are very real things that could be attributed to many weddings. Of course as the Old Man creates the false future for Xander this reinforces his doubts, it can only lead to trouble. Even though he eventually knows it was all fake, he still can't go through with it. It has to be said that from the off Anya was almost forcing Xander into the relationship, and he was so somewhat immature and not ready for this. This is of course no excuse for his actions here in not going through with it, but it is an important point too. With Anya spurned we know how this is going to affect everything. I think everybody tends to forget how dangerous she can be, and the turmoil she caused in the past going back to S3 The Wish. Hell's Bells is the spark that adds to the 'chaos' that is Season 6, a very important episode for the darkness of the Season going forward. Agree about Fool For Love from S5, that episode in this show is just off the charts.
I think it was really smart of the show not to tell us what the demon did to get punished. It’s easy to assume that he was a bad person that got what he deserved but we know that not all of Anya’s victims deserved it. Cordelia was mean but she definitely didn’t deserve to wish she got
I love how one of the BEST episodes is a Spike..
I cannot wait for you to post your s6e17 reaction! (It's one of my favorite episodes and one of the most powerful, in my opinion.)
At the end of the day a true coward stays a coward. Xander isn’t a true coward otherwise he wouldn’t have turned back to face Anya. Not only was he brave for doing that but he was also brave for calling it off then and there despite knowing how painful it would be for both him and Anya to do it at the altar.
This man exhibits bravery so much in this episode but no one wants to see it that way because they see it as wrong what he does in the first place.
And so I ask the question - were you in Xander’s shoes in this episode - what would you do?
Bear in mind that I do mean “in his shoes” to mean having his psyche as well. The same fears and emotions. The same worries and insecurities.
What would you do?
I know what I would do. Exactly the same thing.
I’d initially run away. Not say anything to anyone. Spend some time alone, process and reassess, and then turn back and face my sham of a wedding, tell the love of my life that I cannot go through with it with the way that I feel - have been feeling for a long time - and I would bear the brunt of hers and my pain to be, for once in my life, honest with myself.
That’s what Xander does this episode. I cannot see how anyone does not see this episode as pivotal character growth. I cannot see how it is regression.
I can see how it is wrong but only because of what he held back in the first place. Not for what he does because of it. To me - that is FACING it head on.
And yes, it is painful and devastating.
But it is also extremely brave.
Are you telling me that the brave thing would be to go through with it even though he still has cold feet? No. I don’t think so. That would be the coward route.
If Xander was brave he would have stayed to be the one to tell the families/guests instead of leaving Anya to do it alone and humiliated like the coward he is.
@@SweenyTodd98 Not if his own fears were the only thing he could think about at the time. It took him being able to calm down and process things for him to stop thinking about himself and how he feels and then think about Anya and how he hurt her. That’s not cowardice. But it would have been if he didn’t do that. As for him leaving Anya to tell the guests and families. That - once again, is him being unable to face his fears. Especially when it comes to his own family. You can call it cowardice but if you were in a situation like that yourself would you refer to yourself that way? Or is it a lot more complicated?
Nobody wants to try to understand Xander but that’s the point of his whole arc this Season. Arguably for the other main characters too. To understand them.
They’re just like us at the end of the day. But we have the luxury of talking to a therapist about it. They can’t exactly do that given so much of their lives revolve around the supernatural. These characters need therapy. Not somebody pointing at them and judging them. And don’t get me wrong - I’m guilty of that myself with Willow. But it doesn’t mean I don’t understand her. Her behaviour is arguably the worst out of the lot of them this season but her motivations are understandable. As is Xander’s and Buffy’s.
SLIGHT INDIRECT SPOILER FOR THE REST OF THE SERIES
Considering what S6 has been like she expected a wedding?
My issue with Xander leaving Anya at the alter is more along the lines of him having reservations and cold feet since _All the Way_ aka the Halloween episode of this season. If he had talked to her instead of doing magic to see if they'd have a happy ending aka making a musical (how many people died because he refused to talk to her instead), then perhaps Stewart Burns wouldn't have been able to get into Xander's head with fears of becoming his father.
Xander shouldn't worry about being his father, he should worry that what he does ends up being behavior that isn't any less hurtful emotionally than what he claims he trying to avoid physically when not marrying Anya.
I don't mind that he had these issues, but admitting the spell to make everyone sing being to just see if he'd be happy with her means he wanted to know, which means he should have either been talking to her about it or not marrying her, and that goes back to her telling him that because she assumed his proposal was bogus because he didn't think he'd have to go through with it. If he couldn't talk to Anya about all these issues she was right about, why he was initially proposing? I feel like Anya saying "grow up" and "your only [proposing] because you know you don't have to go through with it" goes right over Xander's head. It's sad that he leaves her at the alter when he had many chances to make sure it didn't.
It's not Xander's issues that bother me. It's how he chooses to handle and react to them: how he reacted when Buffy says she doesn't see him romantically, leaving Anya at the alter, numerous other things in-between for five years, with a couple things before and after these mentioned moments.
Okay. So they bother you.
But have you tried to understand as to why Xander reacts the way that he does? Have you looked into and analyzed why he doesn’t say anything to Anya or to anyone? It’s not as simple as “he should have.” If you were in the same predicament, had the same backstory, had the same parents… and the same psyche.
Would you have said anything? Would you have tried to communicate your fears?
It really is so easy to judge.
@@Girl4Music Yes I have delved into his psyche. Understanding him doesn't mean what he did right. If he talked to Anya and didn't used magic to see if they'd have a happy ending it would have been right, but then it would have been him acting OOC. Your right it's easy to judge someone, something, etc, but I'm critiquing, and that's different. I don't dislike or hate Xander. I accept who he is in all his aspects. Including the negative things I think he does wrong.
In this episode he has a decent fear behind his reasons, but he didn't think it through or think about the better ways to handle it. I would dislike the show if he did because he'd have been acting OOC. Disliking what he does doesn't mean I hate him or the show. It means I dislike his actions when he ignores his own issues in the things I stated in the original comment.
I have been a fan of this show since day one and analyze/critique every character in the series. From Buffy down to single episode guest stars. I've written papers for school and haven't gone a day without thinking about the show since March 10, 1997. So many people confuse the distinction between critiquing characters and judging characters (that is easy to do despite the distinctions). It can be hard for others to distinguish which your doing in writing. I was critiquing, not judging. Didn't mean to make you misunderstand, but it is hard to do with comments on the internet. Sorry I confused you.
@@Buffy8Fan oh no worries. I was just saying.
“Disliking what he does doesn't mean I hate him or the show. It means I dislike his actions when he ignores his own issues in the things I stated in the original comment.”
So like me with Willow then. A lot of people who read my commentary about her think I hate her. She’s actually my favourite character in the entire Buffyverse.
So I get it.
@@Girl4Music My misunderstanding. And still somehow proves my point of misunderstanding comments. 🤔
@@Buffy8Fan yeah. 😂👍🤗
It’s easy to do in online text. Emoticons are helpful though 😆
The audience finally meets Uncle Rory in the Flesh, he has always been referenced but never seen, after Six Seasons, the audience finally sees him.
Nobody gets to be happy on Buffy!
Little note, the demon with tentacles is a Abercrombie & fitch model
I love Anya’s hair in this episode.
xander: "if this is a mistake, it's forever."
me: man has literally never heard of divorce.
The mistake's impact on their relationship would be forever. He's not saying he's against marriage altogether, just against marriage now when he doesn't feel ready.
@@prometheus3498
the problem with your analysis is that leaving her at the altar like this definitely has a forever impact on their relationship. he's trading a possible problem in the future for a certain one now. it's deeply stupid.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Thats a separate discussion, my point was a specific response to your comment elucidating how the marriage could be a mistake that lasts forever.
@@prometheus3498
and i don't necessarily accept your point (thus my use of "possible") but i don't want to veer too far off-topic and in this specific context it's not worthy of debate for the reason i gave.
@@sirmoonslosthismind You're not veering off topic, that's exactly the topic. What reasoning do u have for not accepting my point (it seems obvious to me that marriage can be a mistake that lasts forever because of the impact it has on their relationship)?
I can't believe I missed two "enoughs" in this episode. I'm gonna have to redo the supercut.
Xander has always feared he would turn into his Dad.
And in this episode, he did.
Nah, his father would have been more like him had he had the balls to leave Xander’s mother at his wedding considering how abusive he is to her and to Xander and the monster he turned out to be.
If this episode show’s you anything - it’s that Xander is nothing like his father. Which is remarkable considering he is his blood kin.
Alot of people miss out on how sad and self loathing Xander has always been. All the previous examples you gave, plus his behavior. He ignored romantic interest from the person he cared most about in the world, then hooked up with a Cordy, who constantly belittled and insulted him. When that goes well, he sabotaged it. He ends up with Anya, who again started off as rude, inconsiderate and insulting.
You forgot Buffy, the dream girl he couldn't have because a vampire captured her heart. As for "ignoring Willow romantically", it happens a lot on both sides of the gender field.
Some people can wear a tux. Xander is not one of them. The tux is wearing him.
😂😂
Not just the same actress, she looks at him and says "William?", heavily implying they have a history, if not her actually being the person he wrote his famous poem for...
"How did Xander manage to stay sane growing up in that family?"
1- Did he? He's always helping Buffy, and he's about to marry a former vengeance demon. Not to mention all the other big bad females he was attracted to.
2- Willow and then also Buffy and Giles.
Um...Giles?!?
@@ernesthakey3396 Ya, Giles helped Xander mature by being a much better father figure.
@@ireallyreallyhategoogle Giles ridiculed and insulted Xander every chance he got. He was awful to him. Not any kind of “father figure” or guide. And he didn’t even show up to the wedding.
He wasn’t as bad as his actual father but he still failed him. And clearly doesn’t care that he did.
@@Girl4Music How Giles was with Buffy was a much better example for Xander than his father.
@@ireallyreallyhategoogle and how much of that do you reckon he benefited from?
Joss wrote the Buffy/Spike scene. He was very busy at the time with Firefly pilot (Feb-Mar '02) but he still read everything and did some rewrites (not as much as S4-5 and waaaay too less than S1-2-3).
He wrote a scene where Spike displays compassion for Buffy?
@@Girl4Music Yep. Confirmed by Rebecca Rand. He also wrote the Yellow Crayon speech at the end of Grave.
@@Girl4Musicyes.
Not sure how many times ppl need to realize Spike isn’t your typical vampire. Souless Spike os 10 times better than soulless Angel
@@lessismore8533 I’m just surprised Joss even allowed Spike that characterization, let alone wrote it himself.
I love that you tried to understand Xander's perspective in this. Most people don't. Like others have said, the character gets a lot of hate in the fandom. Xander does and says some real shitty things throughout the show, but they ALL have; let's be real. Willow, who is one of the most beloved characters, does some horrible stuff, particularly to Tara, the love of her life, but this is overlooked whereas Xander's toxic traits are always highlighted. I think Xander has reasons (not that reasons excuse bad behavior, but in the name of psychology, it's important to consider them) for who he is, like all of us do, and his choice here had real fear behind it. Anyone who grew up in an abusive household understands that fear of becoming like a toxic parent. Xander is also super young here, like 21. There's a lot to his response here. Overall, I just think the character of Xander has a lot more complexity than people give him credit for.
This was the terrible wedding episode before that other terrible wedding episode. You know which one. And I'm not sure which one draws worse tears. Shrieks of horror, maybe, but I think the feels in this one are worse. Poor Anya.
Halifrek was always Cecily it's canon. It's confirmed in comics as well. She was already a vengeance demon posing as a human when William was hoping to woo her. Kinda like Anya was pretending to be a human at first.
I think it wasn’t canon at the point of this episode airing though. I think they later made it canon in the comics because people just went with it.
@@Girl4Music then why did halifrek give Spike that look and call him William? Yes haha maybe it's just a little joke but it was written that way.
@@roseclarity1493 yeah, it was just for jokes because it was the same actress.
But like I said. They went with it so eventually made it canon.
Creators can do that.
Look at J.K. Rowling. She came up with a load of crap well after she wrote the Harry Potter books. Can’t really dispute it because she wrote them. That’s the power creators have over their creations. Anything goes if they say so.
Even if it’s the most nonsensical, lazy, biased, ignorant bullshit ever.
I can rewatch The Body.. but it took me a long time to be able to rewatch this..
I can’t re watch the body 😂
Now I believe that it wasn't JUST a vision, it was HIM doing that to Anya. And the vision just created the right situations in such quick succession where Xander WOULD have a very bad day that he would kill Anya. Not that Xander did the right thing but the trauma form the vision is not just from a 3rd person movie perspective but in his own hands. Plus all the other things other commenters said, it really puts Xander in a corner.
12:35 I’m tearing up now 😢
When I first started watching Buffy I messed up too, was on DVD and I watched the pilot then the 3rd episode not knowing the harvest was the 2nd thought something didn't seem right lol
_"That was not the wedding episode I was expecting to get."_ I'm sorry, haven't you ever seen any Joss Whedon show? That's exactly the wedding episode you should have expected to get.
When you say the dialogue being lower than the music, you mean like in EVERY movie made in the last decades.
Hi Alley. I've been watching your Buffy videos recently and just wanted to comment on the confusion you've expressed in some of them regarding Buffy and Spike's dynamic. S6 can be hard when you’re a Spuffy... erm... Bike shipper. There’s a sense of disappointment in seeing Buffy and Spike come together is in this twisted, sad way rather than the pure romance that we hoped for. It's less confusing, though, if you think it through in terms of each character’s individual arc:
S5 had us questioning how good Spike can be even without a soul. S6 seems to be asking the opposite: how is his nature fundamentally inadequate because he lacks a soul? His love for Buffy is genuine, but unfortunately the way that he loves is corrupted by his lack of moral foundation. That's okay when he's with another vamp like Drusilla, but with Buffy? Even though he’s changed a lot since he got the chip, the mythology of the soul in the Buffyverse means that his capacity for change and understanding of human boundaries has a hard ceiling. Prior to S6, Buffy in her goodness and righteousness acts a kind of moral compass for Spike. He works around and against his demonic impulses to be worthy of and accepted by her. But after her resurrection, when she loses her righteous character and is instead driven by self-destructive pain, his ability to comprehend moral lines and uphold them slides backwards. In Spike's eyes, her coming back "wrong" means she's now closer to being a demon like him than fully human like her friends and family. He doesn't have the ability to see how much their sexual relationship damages her self-respect (because that would require intuitive understanding of her moral system), and he can't even properly appreciate that she's using him and how that's a bad thing. Instead of her pulling him towards her light, making him a better person (a man, as he says in S5), he ends up pulling her towards his dark (the demon in him), and we've seen how this makes both of them worse in very upsetting ways.
Buffy in S6 has lost her moral and spiritual conviction. She’s depressed and feels disconnected from the world, dead, empty. All the ugly words she spits at Spike as she beats him up in that alleyway in Dead Things are about herself. She takes advantage of Spike’s love just so she can feel alive again, but she can’t love him back because he doesn’t have a soul. She does have feelings for Spike, though. She learns to trust him - to a degree - in S5; she protects him when she doesn’t have to; she appreciates and seeks out his company; and so by late S5/early S6 they have forged an emotional connection. It’s just that his lack of a soul is an affront to her entire moral landscape and her sacred duty as the Slayer. He can’t ever be a genuine lover for those reasons. And yet, they have this connection and chemistry. He’s the only person she can be open with about her depression; who allows her to express and explore her darker feelings and impulses. It’s why she blows so hot and cold towards him with both need and disgust while they’re sleeping together. She has massive cognitive dissonance about her feelings for him, what those mean for her values and her sense of self, and what he brings out in her in these circumstances.
The result is that they treat each other terribly, both emotionally and physically, as you’ve seen. They both conflate violence with sex, and their relationship is full of mixed signals and ambiguous consent. Buffy dehumanises Spike (when she once made him feel like a man) and callously exploits his feelings for her own gratification. Spike selfishly seduces and manipulates Buffy into indulging in the emotional darkness and isolation she feels. It speaks volumes that in this episode, Hell’s Bells, after Buffy breaks off their physical relationship and regains some of her self-respect, they have one of their most civil and surprisingly warm moments of connection in months.
I hope this helps make some sense of the very complex dynamic between Buffy and Spike in this season. I look forward to seeing your response to future episodes!
I fully agree with everything you said and couldn't have said it better! Thank you for this 😊. I think because this episode is mostly about Anya and Xander, people didn't pay much attention to it but you make some good points.
Regarding Cecile and the Vengeance Demon friend of Anya - yeah, not just same actress but same character. Explained in one of the comics I believe. She was a vengeance demon prior to being there as William's love interest - she was there to wreak vengeance on some of those high and mighty pricks, and put down William to get him to leave before the vengeance started, since he hadn't wronged anyone. They did decide that after the fact, once they had gotten the same actress back, but it works.
Lol. Unfortunate about the mistake, but hey, at least we get two Buffy Alleybox episodes in one day :)
This episode is an example to me, why people shouldn't even consider getting married before they are Twenty-five, I myself was engaged when I was Fifteen, it was too young, not for the reasons average people think, I had a lot of personal growing to do, it was not because I didn't want to get Married.
Remember this: "Your shirt..."
Im glad you did that cause im not much of a fan of 15, so I can skip to this one and go back to that one when I need a video to watch lol
i watched chronologically from your perspective. the costume change for continuity confused me.
If you’re a Spuffy/Bike fan you’ll like s7- it’s VERY different
Damn I think Xander is really underrated these days. He had doubts before and he did tons of mistakes and also will do in the future. But I just love how he is the "average guy" - no superpowers, no witchcraft, no demon.
Ugh, this one hurts! I get Xander's reasons for calling the wedding off but fuck his cowardly ass for 1. waiting until the actual day of the wedding and 2. leaving Anya there alone and humiliated to tell the families. You want to call the wedding off then you tell everyone!
Ya, he sucks so much in this, but that's what trauma can do to someone. His family and his parents are such a mess that he can't imagine a happy marriage.
But he didn't know he was gonna call off the wedding until after that demon opened his eyes and saw his parents fighting at the ceremony.
There are so many emotional pain points in this season. This seems like the worst, but it's just part of the escalation. The arc is important to the evolution of all the characters, but it can be hard to watch.
I adore Anya's vows 🥹
Its the same person not just the same actress.
It is cannon and its in the comics she was there to curse the party but William didnt deserve it so she was cruel to him to get him to leave.
Spike however did derseve yhe curse as hebwas neglecting dawn.
I wish they had explored xanders family abuse situation more. We only get snippets here and there until this fateful episode
Actually in the comic it's revealed that she actually granted a wish that William made after running out of the party to destroy the rest of the attendees.
Xander often gets really hated on for this episodes and I just don't abide it. Was his choice bad, and wrong? Yes. But it is incredibly understandable. He's lived his whole life experiencing his parents hate each other and swore to never be like them, and then the one thing he feared most was shown to him in graphic detail. Even if he knew it was fake afterward, he'd still have those images in his head and that little lingering "What if?" at the back of his mind, a fear that he'd never be able to shake. And he'd rather hurt Anya once and hope she gets over him than risk her suffering forever at his hands. It's selfish, yes, but it's very human. A viewer can always make that objective "of course X should do Y in this situation" and a lot of people say "I can't believe he'd be so stupid!" But let's see you brush off experiencing yourself in the future abusing the person you love. JUST like you saw happen with your own parents. For years. You KNOW it can happen. So you can't be sure it won't. We always tell ourselves when we're kids "I'll never be like my parents" and then one day you find yourself doing the same things they did, albeit smaller, or even beneficial things. So while I think Xander made the wrong choice, but he did it for all the right reasons, and I can't hate him for it.
There are several things Xander could have done. He could have talked about his fears with Anya after they came out in "Once More with Feeling" and they could have worked them out, taken more time before the actual wedding for him to build confidence in their long term prospects, even gone to counselling together to work things out. He could have sucked it up and married her with the expectation that they would work it out, maybe get some counselling--either couples or himself individually to work out his own trauma issues (and his family life does count as trauma for this purpose). Instead, he chose the worst path: waiting until the actual wedding day and leaving Anya at the altar.
I LOVE YOU SO MUCH YOU ARE MY FAV TH-camR THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING AMAZING
😂 Come on, It happens.
sad!... 💔
Wait, so she left this episode to watch the next one, and then came back to give her post episode thoughts. So why is she wearing a different shirt in the 6-15 reaction? She changed shirts and then changed shirts again? Why?
I wish I could find me an Anya. 😢
@36:50 ... Faith?
Your boy is good
“No person is either just fully evil or fully good”
Depends on whether you see Spike as a “person” instead of just an evil soulless thing.
I can tell you most don’t.
Including the narrative.
Yeah, all of that “it’s not black and white” talk. It doesn’t apply to Spike. He isn’t a real person.
So you can argue this perspective for forever. You’ll be met with “he isn’t a person.” Trust me. I know.
They’re not “his evil tendencies”.
It’s an evil demon.
He is incapable of the character complexity of moral greyness. The majority of the fandom and the narrative say so. So it must be true.
Yeah, if you’re detecting sarcasm in this text, your instincts are correct.
It’s fucking bullshit. Spike isn’t a human. That I agree with. But he is most definitely a person.
Talking about Season 6 being divisive. Nothing is more divisive than the reception of soulless Spike. Because you can talk about him having human abilities and qualities and emotions and how he struggles with his morality… but you’ll be talking about it to someone who absolutely has no comprehension of what you even mean by it.
Spike displays empathy, altruism, vulnerability, free will… lots of things that show that he possesses human consciousness even if he isn’t a human.
But the “canon lore” is soulless vampires can’t be capable of any of that so good luck explaining any of this to someone who believes in the canon lore.
He isn’t a person point blank according to them.
Mistakes happen lol
Where'd your shows go?
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Hell’s Bells’. May contain spoilers.
I have said before that the main themes of Season 6 are power corruption, depression and addiction. Buffy and Willow are the main focus of the season and therefore are assigned to these main themes. Buffy to depression and Willow to power corruption and addiction. Another theme in Season 6 is fear and that’s the theme the main character Xander is assigned to. Xander and his theme isn’t a focus for Season 6 but it is a prevalent side story all throughout it’s progression. And given this episode is Xander-centric, that’s what I will be talking about for this episode recap as there isn’t really much else going on in it and I very rarely talk about Xander or Anya as it is.
We learn very little about Xander and his backstory all throughout the show. He has significantly less character representation and development than his female counterparts despite also being of the core four. I believe this is partly the reason why much of the Buffyverse fandom dislikes him. Because his character arc, compared to Buffy and Willow, isn’t very well written and fleshed out. Thus, much of what we see of Xander’s characterization in the show is mostly just him being the comedic relief. For whatever reason that is lost on me for the most part, the writers decided that the dialogue comedy this character should provide is humour steeped in toxic masculinity. It is really only in this episode and ‘Restless’ that we find out the reason why Xander is the way he is as a character. Why he makes such inappropriate sexist and sometimes even misogynistic comments every now and again that really just puts him in a negative light as a character in the fandom. The reason why is because he has grew up in a very abusive household. Now while I understand that the abuse a person observes and experiences themselves from when they’re too young to understand that it’s not personally about them why they’re treated so abusively shouldn’t be an excuse for them being a dick, and that they have all the agency to be better than the people that have inflicted that abuse on them… I also understand that hurt people hurt people and how hard it is not to reflect and project the same behaviour that they’ve observed and experienced on to others. And the reason why I defend Xander’s character from the fandom that love to hate on and slander him to all hell is because he is never abusive. That really is remarkable considering all he has ever really known from the people he has known the longest is abuse. Abuse: emotionally, mentally, and possibly even physically is what Xander goes through and has gone through all throughout his life living with his parents. Xander is not anything like his father despite how much this episode shows us that he chronically fears he will be if he marries Anya.
When that old man, pretending to be Xander from the future, shows him his nightmare version of his potential married life with Anya… the first thing he thinks to do is to disappear. To get as far away from that wedding as possible. Now the relevant question is not to ask why he disappears because we already know why as he tells Anya when he returns. He believes it could be the truth. That if he marries Anya there is, to him, a very likely chance he could end up an abusive husband to her and that he could end up physically striking her the way it was depicted in the false vision of his future. Out of pure anger and hatred. No, the relevant question to ask is why his instinctive reaction is to disappear. Why is the first thing he thinks to do to run away like a scared little boy and not confront Anya and talk to her about it or to communicate with anyone at all about it? The answer is in the reason he disappears whenever he observes and experiences his parents being abusive to each other. Because he simply cannot face up to his fears, cannot communicate them to anyone, and instinctively avoids thinking about them himself. That’s the reason he doesn’t say anything to Anya or anyone in this episode, at any point when planning the wedding or even before announcing the engagement. See, it’s not just that he has fears. He has trained himself to ignore them, to distract himself from them, and to discard them. His instinct is to run away, to disappear, to hide not from just the reality of what’s happening to him, but also from the mentality of it. Because that’s what he has always done when afraid. It is routine for him. And while it has never worked to resolve anything for him, it has provided for him respite from the responsibility to resolve it. To procrastinate. He obviously knows what he should do, but he doesn’t do it because fear is too hard to face. And in this episode when this truth hits him… when he realizes that his instinct is always to run away from what scares him and from what upsets him, he turns back because he knows then that he can’t run away anymore, and that he has to face Anya and his sham of a proposal and admit to her that he was never ready to marry her in the first place. He does that because his love and respect for her is stronger than his fear. He calls it off because he wasn’t ready, not because he didn’t still want to be with her. He loves her. And he loves her enough to confront her and tell her the truth when he has actively avoided doing so the whole time.
If it wasn’t for those false visions, if it wasn’t for his instinctive reaction, he would have gone through with it. He would have married Anya. But that wasn’t the right thing to do given the way he felt and he knew that. And he also knew that it wasn’t fair to Anya to keep those feelings from her. So he called it off and left her at the altar because that was the only option left since he never had the courage to call it off earlier. But he knew he couldn’t lie to her even more and go through with it only to regret doing so afterwards. That would be much more cruel than leaving her now.
Was he in the wrong? Only in the sense that he never made it clear what he really wanted when it really mattered. When it wouldn’t have being so devastating to call it off. But he was in the right to call it off at all. And Anya - being Anya - took it as he didn’t want to get married because he didn’t want to be with her. In the next episode; ‘Entropy’, Xander tried to explain all this to Anya but she wouldn’t listen. And I’m not saying Anya didn’t have the right to shut Xander out. I’m just saying her not listening and being passive-aggressive when he was trying to explain didn’t help.
ANYA:
*Firmly*
“Do you still want to get married?”
*Close on Xander's face. He hesitates, looks unsure. Anya looks upset. Very quietly*
“Oh.”
XANDER: “Ahn, it's a very complicated question.”
ANYA:
*Getting teary*
“No, actually, it's really not. It's kind of an either-or deal. Do you want to get married?”
XANDER: “Someday, yes, very much. When we're ready.
*Anya looking very hurt*
I don't want you to take this as a bad thing. It's good.
*Anya looking resigned, annoyed*
I love you, I love you so much, I'm just trying to be honest with you.”
ANYA:
*Angry*
“Yes, honesty *now*. Congratulations, Xander, on being honest now. I wonder what the medal will say.”
XANDER:
*Confused*
“Okay, clearly I'm not handling this well.”
ANYA:
*Yelling*
“Well, duh!”
Ultimately no one was in the wrong for the way they reacted because they only reacted by way of their nature. Xander’s nature was rooted in fear. So you could argue his theme for the whole show is fear and all the complicated layers that come with feeling fear. What is ironic about Xander and Anya is the fact that they’re the most communicative couple in the whole show (yes, they are) and yet the reason why their relationship is destroyed is because they “never tell”.
I hate Xander in this episode. I don't hate this episode itself like so many do, but that Xander gives up COMPLETELY on the woman he loves out of fear of becoming his father is just stupid. It felt less earned than plot armor. I don't even think the idea is wrong but they never really set it up well.
This was the final straw for me with season 6. It was the only think not yet broken so the writers had to demolish it. I get that they're adults now and learning to deal with the adversities of life but not everything goes to hell in life. They couldn't leave us with 1 happy marriage? They couldn't have Xander grow past his upbringing, take the next step in his maturity?
Love your videos and I hope my Christmas card I sent you made it ok and I hope you like it 😊❤️
imagine of ally had accidently watched 6x18
Or 6x19
Probably my least favorite episode of the whole show, and not even because I think it's badly directed or made or written, but just because the decision to even have things play out like this was so unnecessary and mean I feel... One could argue that since the episode moved me a lot it's actually good and it works, but I don't think just shock and emotional value alone is worth it.
Probably literaly the only plot decision I disagree with the writers on in the entire show. Everything else I can understand, I can see why other things were interesting and relevant, but here it just felt like undoing a lot of character growth for Xander (and god knows he needed it) and giving a lot of unnecessary cruelty towards Anya.
And it's not even that they didn't address their fears or reservations about marriage earlier, because they *did* in "Once More With Feeling", yet in the end... Well...
While they did sow the seeds of this in earlier episodes, I still maintain this is Joss hating happy relationships. It's heavy-handed writing that does no justice to Xander's character growth to date.
His misgivings are founded, calling off the wedding is founded, but how he _handled_ it is massively out of character. Alley called it when he comes out of the vision his concern was for Anya.
When you love someone like that there's no way you just drop the bomb and leave. Sure, hit the brakes on the wedding, say you aren't ready, but you do love them and state what you need. The most annoying part of this out of character writing is they still could have ended the relationship while staying in character -- By Anya not taking it well and giving an ultimatum Xander couldn't meet, which would also been a clever play on the Buffy/Riley ending.
Shit Alley, when did you get engaged!?
Dumb episode. Rarely do I feel like the writers have no ideas but this is one of them.
you love buffy and spike so much. poor thing :( you really never saw it coming!!! i always skip that scene in seeing red and i have half a mind to skip past your reaction to it cause :((((((
try again looser
The 2nd worst episode of the entire series. You guys can guess what the first one is.
The absolute worst episode; artificially cruel and mean spirited. I watched this one live and it almost killed the show for me ☹
years later Xander found a new girlfriend, Dawn
I think it was really smart of the show to not tell us what the demon did to get punished. It's easy to assume that he got what he deserved but we know that not all of Anya's victims deserved it. Cordelia was mean but she definitely didn't deserve that wish Anya granted.