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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- The new Beast-Smasher has taken the problem with Mega-Gargants and escalated it. Just how many variants of something can you squeeze out of one kit? Too many, it turns out.
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It's the best example of designers trying their best to work within financial constraints. It's 100% a money issue where the creative people said "We should really expand the line" and the money people are going "We're not making enough on the gargant as is, so you're not getting completely new molds, we'll spend max 75,000$ on it." so they can make extra sprues but no main sprues.
Poor initial project requirement/specifications. Could have worked more in at start with different pose choices. Probably a small supplementary mold was made with extra weapons/heads. But very poor body pose/design (not sculpting, which I think is good) means they end up flogging a dead horse.
@@actualwafflesenjoyer A mold for a simple plastic bottle used in mass market which made 6-10 bottles per injection was 16-20,000 euro in 2008. I was in that industry. GW is low production in comparison and more detail. A sprue mold for the new chaos cultists will be 30k or so today in labor cost if they do it in-house, if they outsource the moldmaking it will be double that.
@@actualwafflesenjoyer Labor is the big ticket item. As well as drill bits (they wear out) and most mold aren't aluminium (or not all alu).
It's called subsidiary Recoop,
You take the 45 year old landraider mold you have had pure profits from for over 35 years and just. Use it to pay for a new gargant mold!
Wow. Who knew buisness and reallocation of pure profits was SO SIMPLE!
This is you defending a company who sells a material that *PER POUND IS WORTH THREE SINGULAR DECIMAL POINTS OF A PENNY*
but sure the 6oz megagargant being like 450 thousand percent mark up from material costs surely is too massive of a loss for them to do anything.
Give me a fucking break
My theory is that GW wanted to go the same route as Knights and chaos knights but they have hit a wall on how to make them as customizable as the knights so they just make new parts to fit the existing pose
I 100% agree. This army concept is phoned in.
I miss the days of buying chaos warriors for fantasy 6th edition (before the warriors all gained capes and looked identical) where you would build a box and have literally dozens of spare weapons along with a handful of spare heads, shields etc. Sure, the models themselves don’t hold up to newer ones, but the options you had in terms of parts in the box were much better
GW have been moving hard away from customizability - they want uniform, monopose push-fit
Stop buying GW and look farther afield. Plenty of other spiky armored fantasy guys on the market, including STL files for printing your own. This isn't the "GW Hobby" no matter how much they want people to believe it.
They could have just called them an upgrade kit and said here's a new head and weapon for your mega gargants. The weapon is an new artifact that you can add for flavor on your old mega gargant rules. The king should have just been a unique model. Either way, a new warscroll is fine since this beastslayer seems to match my lore for the kitbashed mega I wanted to make anyway. So for me there is that at least.
I think GW more and more corners themselves into a trap of "let's cram everything on as few sprues as possible", which is admirable for not wasting too much space and material, but by doing so, can't at the very least release new legs/torsos if they were ever to be designed without significant re-working and recalling and repackaging of the boxes. I still, for 2 years now, say that they had a smashing idea with selling FW Dreadnought bodies and weapons separately, which allowed to mix and match without worrying that "I like and stay with this choice and the other 40 choices available will never see the light of day just like some of my money I have effectively wasted". I think GW should allow more, not complete that applies to everything across the board, freedom to pick n' mix what people want to play with, hopefully allowing for prices to drop and keep more accurate view on what sells well and not. Characters should have 1 or 2 pre-defined loadouts and poses, but the rest should be like "I'm going to buy 15 sets of legs, torsos and whatnots, topping it up with set or two of weapons"
Still loved back in the day when the sprues for chaos warriors were a sprue of torsos, a sprue of heads, a sprue of left arms, etc. Made it great to get parts for conversions (especially since you could order bits from GW back then).
But for things like the gargants, you'd think it wouldn't have been too hard to make another sprue with legs and some accessories so you could mix things up a bit.
That used to be exactly the case back in 3E-4E 40k and 6E-7E WFB (and Specialist Games, Necromunda Pit Fighter bits were ideal for Arco-Flagellant conversions) in 2000s, GW website store used to sell the individual bits separately so you could create really cool kitbash/conversions, they used to even sell bit boxes for specific kitbash like VCoast and Lost and the Damned kitbash box sets.
Man, I wish the writers of the CSM codex could see this.
and THIS is why Venomcrawler still doesn't have a solo box that's not monopose
You know they did this with the old Giants too? They tried to convince every army to talk the same giant walking forward.
My hope is I’ll be able to find a 3D print of the lower torsos one day, especially since buying three boxes left me with so many leftover parts (which is almost certainly why there’s not extra torsos or legs in the box: then you wouldn’t have to buy more boxes)
Hey hey, you saying Clones can't be living creatures? Clone rights!
It just looks weird as they all have the same legs, I honestly thought the new one was a conversation until found out that it was a "new" upgrade sprue
You nailed it 100%. Too samey. And I don’t like that leg pose to begin with. And being organic it stands out so much more than Knights.
They have the same issue as Knights: They never shouldve been a solo army. You either win hard or lose hard, there is no in between (playing against them is no fun). Both of them should be an addition to an army. That would solve the pose issue as well, because you dont have that many of them
Getting a sense of deja vu with the ogor range
I agree totally. It's a very distinctive pose as well with the feets turned in like it's about to trip an fall over. It's just a bit cheep on GWs part, but thats not a big surprise.
Couldn't agree more. It's always terribly sad when GeeDubs doesn't offer wider ranging customisation. Back in the day that was a huge part of the hobby. They used to actively encourage people to do conversions in the shop even. The "Bitz Wall" blister pack display was fantastic for picking parts too.
Now it feels like every other model is practically a snap-fit clone and conversions are all but banned in shops. Veterans of the hobby spot repeated parts a mile away and it always induces a cringe.
perhaps it is controversial in this community - but I think that it is best to stick to only one model of this size in any army/collection. It is about collecting little models and while it is great to have a giant walking amongst them - little models are what it is all about. That said, it is great that there are so many options for this one model.
I think it's best to make the rules work around the miniature designs, for example anything that's monopose should effectively only be 1 per army. Just a different pair of legs would have been enough to justify a SoB army...
Why should every army have to be structured the same way though?
Over in 40K I play Chaos Knights, Deathwatch and Adepta Sororitas.
- Sororitas are a horde-adjacent faction
- Deathwatch are smaller model count than Sisters but still plenty overall.
- Knights are the smallest model count.
Overall these differences in structure help armies differentiate themselves from each other, thus keeping me more invested in my projects. If there weren’t low model count factions like Gargants, Knights and Custodes, tabletops would start to look too samey very quickly imho
@@isabelh5561 yes, I agree with that. I was referring to the huge cabinet filling models, giants and the bigger titans, baneblades etc. Imo these can be the crown of an army, but several of them in one army deviates from too much from what the game is about...
The kit's only $200, what do you expect? New sculpts? Don't get greedy, come on now.
Nice video. Keep up the good work.
GW doesn't have enough money to make a second mega gargant box.
The only positive I can see in this is that it might inspire some awesome kitbashes. But then the onus shouldn't really be on the hobbyist to create *that much* variety
You’d think with the price they could stick an extra leg in the box…
GW REALLY don't want to spring for a new gargant body.
The real shame is how many tactical rocks are denied employment by these models.
I feel this is more about selling the kit to the AoS player that just wants a mega as a mercenary. In my area at least, nobody runs a full mega army but several players have one that they make to supplement their other forces.
So as a kit that makes your own custom mega it’s fantastic. But all the criticisms are deserved for people looking to build and collect the army. To much sameness for such a cool concept
They were always too similar to have more than one. These make it more obvious.
They should have made a new kit for the King and 1 or 2 new variants.
Feels like the Cadian kit. Same old models, just with an extra sprue of new heads in the box, and sold as a new release
Man wish they were bigger like it’s a mega make it titanic lol
I feel like GW should have two mega gargant kits with three variations each
Man i just love these mega gargs. Guess im in the minority but their design is just peak warhammer for me. The bowed in legs, random adorments, makeshift weapons, ugly faces, idk it just all hits perfect for me. Im glad they didnt go too far with it, i like a bit of mundanity in my giants
These cost the same, OR MORE than an entire army box. I did buy one but the other giants I have are from Mantic Games and cost about 25% what one of these things run.
I wish GW could make a new Mega-Gargant set that gave us the King and the Beast-Smasher (and one more?) where they changed the posing of the legs. Seems like they could do that since they are now reusing the equipment. At least with the Knights in 40K you can glue the body at a different angle to create some sort of variety even though the legs are the same pose. With the Mega-Gargants you don't have that possibility as you need to use the upper body as it is.
Heh. The "machine versus living creature" thing with knights versus gargants has plagued the WarmaHordes community since warbeasts were first introduced. A bunch of nearly-identical warjacks bugs no one and are easy to add details to for customization anyway, but why are all my warpwolves in exactly the same stance? :)
While i see your point. I also thing mega gargants are maybe the best opportunity for kit bashing and personalisation of any army in the game you can basically take any part from any army and slap it on a mega gargant and it’s like they picked it up and decided to use it, with abit of creativity you can definitely have all your gargants be very unique not to mention the massive base size being an awesome opportunity for creativity as well, the leg posing is the only really issue I see
Knight players looking from the other side of the room:
Generally speaking, I'm already not a big fan of the Gargant models. And the fact that they all tend to look the same doesn't help.
It strikes me as GW just trying to sell miniatures without them trying to make unique products, but instead the company is not even trying to do enough for the price that GW is asking for this miniature.
Good analysis, didn't realise it was quite as bad as that until this breakdown
I suspect some people at GW excuse it know that people are going to kitbash the heck out of their huge centerpiece units. Since they saw that was happening with the 40K Knights. Which is made easier with all the naked space on a Gargant. I'm waiting to see if GW is ever going to give out an actual HAIRPIECE. (I'm not counting that one top knot.)
The biggest problem is if you need to first buy the mega gargants, and buy ANOTHER kit just to build a slightly different variant!
It's a great sculpt, but we collect miniatures for variety.
I always felt like these things were very specialist as it is. I feel like someone who wants to paint something ‘ugly’ like this, especially as such a project, is going to be in the minority of hobbyists.
I agree with the beast smasher, personally I think Brodd has enough new stuff going on that it isn't quite so bad. Ultimately Ill get both but the beast smasher is going to take some tweaking. fortunately you get so much extra shite with each gargant kit that you end up with plenty of gubbins to mess about with and sell the unique-ness. Im thinking I might see if I cant make Brodd a set of scrap armor and the beast smasher is just begging to get covered in a load of fur and pelts.
yeah that bugs me too. if u have just one is fine but their army looks dull
I don’t dislike the model. Pity, it’s not in warhammer fantasy and not just called a giant.
king brood should of been his own kit that way the beast smasher would not be as samey and disappointing from a visual point. im just waiting for their rules so i can decide if i want them or not which is a shame that with mega garangts you don't pick them for looks but rules as they are basically the same model.
Couldn't agree more. I can let Knights go as having an element of sameness because they're machines all using the same chassis. The Mega-Gargants on the other hand? It feels very lazy on GWs part for such big models.
Knights can also be *posed* which helps a lot. Gargants are just... The same.
At least the knights have numerous joints that can change up the silhouette
Overall I like how these giants look, but HOOOLY FUCK are they the laziest things ever
Get into proxys awesome ones out there
Spot on Kirioth, lazy no new poses, only ornamental window dressing -- so sad for the big guys models
For anyone interested in alternatives to the Mega-Gargant kit I recommend the Kings of War Giant for comparably sized miniature at a much lower cost that could even be used to kitbash with spares from the GW kit if you don’t mind a bit of green stuffing
More incentive to grab a cheaper mantic giant
why are they pigeon toed
MFW Kiroth isn't talking about the Epic scale Mega-Gargents...
This shows a spectacular lack of imagination at the initial mold layout stage. Could have made an extra leg and/or changed upper torso OR gone with simpler leg pose and done an extra character in Forgeworld. They look far too goofy, like an army of zombie movie extras walking in ranks. Poor project management. For better see Mantic Games
lazy!
Your video content blatantly reused by eonsofbattle in their video from today
I think you need to find something else to do a video on. Leave the complaining to the Karens.
Mega-Gargant army was my first resin printed project and I'd say that SoB is probably the faction that gains most out of 3d printing because it basically has no options when it comes to models.
Like all the models are basically just the same guy but in different clothes so nobody other than GW is going to complain about you showing up with an actually interesting looking proxy army.
The Beast Smasher should've been just announced as additional bits for customisation for the other guys
You nailed it 100%. Too samey. And I don’t like that leg pose to begin with. And being organic it stands out so much more than Knights.
I agree, the original three were quite different with the cosmetics and personality. I feel like the beast smasher could of work in the kit if the legs could be posed differently and they give him different armor and clothing material. But I feel like a unique named character should have there own model the set them apart from their”lessers”. I don’t feel like I worded that last sentence well but the points there.
Also when you said that clones weren’t living being kinda caught me off guard being a big Clone Wars fan when I was growing up.
I honestly feel like if they were sold as just you have one for your army it would be fine. but it suffers way to much after you pass that threshold imo.
One main body means I'll only buy one for the collection. GW doesn't have to make a 500% profit off every kit. Different legs different body equals more sales.
yes they do, they are barely scraping, their profit margins are just above 0 [sarcasm (just in case)]
Gargants was completely the wrong direction for their AoS Knight equivalent. Rock golems could have easily been made. Big box of plastic rocks that can go together in a number of ways to make a basic small golem, combine two boxes to make a big boy, easy peasy. Could have been the ultimate utility kit.
GW is way too dogmatic for that. They can barely managed to make multi-part plastic at all these days, like 80% of everything is monopose now.
I think we really don't need any more Mega Gargagents even they are ok models they are super op in games and GW should be spending their time and money on updating other armies and making ne units!!!!!!!!!!!
Isn't this an issue Forgeworld initially dealt with? Selling niche, large models? Maybe forgeworld should release an alternative body pose?
Or, speak it softly, go to Mantic Games.
It is a shame that with what these "miniatures" cost, there is no option to vary the hip position to at least alternate which leg is forward and back. you will have 4 Giants dancing the same choreography
Tbf, the same can be said about 40K's Plastic Knights. It's all the same frame with some extra tat stuck on.
Edit: Bugger... Should have waited. Although GW does do this a lot, just look at the new Leagues named character, only thing different on him is a head and backpack .
On the flip side though, the fact that they share all the same parts and poses makes adding differences to same models (ie 2x gate breakers) a lot easier. For example: I have one Gatebreaker built like the box, and another with the warstomper belly armor, war stomper club and kraken eater club
I think the knight comparison is good, but I also feel like the organic argument only works a bit of the way. if you stick a bunch of mostly naked humans in a room they would also look samey, despite individual differences so I don't think the pose is such a big problem. That said I think the lack of new unique arms and waist items makes it super repetitive. I find that having two identical organic structures is fine, but having the exact same door on the exact same arm is a problem. The fluff on their waist which is supposed to add unique touches works against the kit when too many copies are present.
I'm not one to usually moan about gw, but having built and painted all 3 of the previous versions. I can't help but notice everything that's the same and feel like these 2 new models are so lazy. Shan't be purchasing either of them, might as well proxy them with the other gargants haha
over the last year I've moved away from Gamesworkshop stuff and dam are we spoiled when it comes to things like poses. I appreciate what you are saying here but so many other table top games are one pose and done. I love star wars legion for example but if you get a box of wookiees for example. you are getting 6 units with 3 unique poses and maybe some different weapon options. I've got over posing. Yes when you want to do a display it might be a bit of an issue but for the actual table top game its so irrelevant.
There are other options out there for Mega Gargants if you're worried about them looking too samey.
these kind of similarities are totally acceptable on 40k knights since theyre meant to be mass produced machines. since these are supposed to be unique individuals the similarities might as well have been painted in hi-vis paint
woulda been cooler to do it like the new eldar hero i realy love that kits ability to work with the old one and make a man or woman. like m=imagine a mega gargant hero wuith instead of a tactical rock its a squashed tactical steam tank lul
This is the monopose issue super sized Good individual poses that suffer from repetition when an army is presented.
What's incredibly weird to me is they managed *not* to do this with the pox maggoths.
Had the same thought. I'd have liked a new set of legs...
I'm gonna be honest I loved the designs
A bit like knights, I feel like huge centre pieces guys like giants should be single part of a larger force. A couple of giants amongst a horde, big problems that need to answered lest they just stomp through your ranks.
Still an interesting challenge for scratch builds and kit bashes.
It's even "worse" than you said, the torsos are also all the same, the change is in the neck which is a separate piece.
They do need more variety and stances
I think it helps that the Imperial Knights have a more neutral pose, and that in combination with the ability to customize a little more on the upper torso it's a lot less noticable even if you don't repose aggressively. MegaGargants don't just share the same legs, but those legs are also positioned in a left-leg-forward right-leg-slightly-bent-inwards pose.