I built wooden dories from hundred year old patterns in the 70s. I enjoy your thoughtfulness and care that you share in your videos. Like many others, Uma and Sail Life are tied with yours for favorite boat project channels!
So close to 10k. Subs way to go. As far as your headliner’s go keep it simple and clean. Most of all ask your beautiful lady on what she thinks. Andy seems to be a great resource also.
I love this video series...especially the core replacements, bulkhead builds, glasswork and epoxy-ing. I like the gameplan of replacing sections of the core, from one end to the other. The reason I like your approach is that a comletely uncored deck will have NO structural support. And the shape of the deck will get real wonky, real fast. Moar Anchor Locker, please ;) 8:24
Thank you. I really appreciate that. 🙏 I’m glad that you enjoyed the shoutout to all of the people that have had enough anchor locker content for now. Haha.
I just watched the whole series from the beginning in two days. I watch some sailing channels and I have watched a lot of refits. But the explanations that have been given I feel like I now understand. I’m not a boat guy I have always built race cars. But watching this stuff makes me want to build a sailboat in the middle of the mid west.
On my Rehab project, I chose to go back with double bubble for radiant insulation, followed by a foam liner with a high quality automotive headliner to finish. The vbirth is much more comfortable now significantly reducing condensation.
In my late teens/early twenties I was fortunate enough to work with some high school friends in the summers between university semesters. We did maintenance for CPR in the beautiful mountains of BC, near Revelstoke. They coined the phrase, "There's no point playing pattycake!" I still use it when a job needs doing that I don't particular want to do. I don't see you playing pattycake anytime soon. Your work ethic is too strong. Enjoy the future challenges! Love the content!
I liken boat repair to going through the stages of grief. At first you don't want to accept it. "I'll be careful and preserve everything I can" but like grief you finally accept it and "rip it all out and put in new" lol. Anyhow I'm convinced with all my car restoration experience (and currently refitting my own boat) the only proper way to bring an old boat up to modern standards is to completey gut it inside and out, sandblast it inside and out and rebuild. Sailing Uma is basically doing this now. Those bulwarks are going to have to come out, you know it, jump to end of the grief stages and bypass the heart ache! Good luck. Look forward to seeing your videos, and love all the details.
Haha. Yeah, I think that’s a good comparison. It’s time for me to get past bargaining and get on with accepting it. Haha. On we go and thank you for the feedback. 👍🙌🙏
Nice work Jon. It looks so easy on your videos, but I know better. Its HARD work. I have no idea what do do about the plywood. Maybe seal it up if possible. I dont know how you would dry it up. Anyway, great video as always. I always learn something while watching your videos.
Hi John, your Fein blade is the Starlock type, the same as Bosch. You can buy adapters to either add to a different oscillating tool so that it accepts these blades or to add to a flat blade so that it can be used with a Starlock tool. 5:14
No need to worry about showing all of the steps in the build. Those of us that watch boat refit channels love the detail. The slickest system I have seen is the Fastmount Panel mounting system.
I can't wait to see what headliner solutions come up. I love the idea of removable headliners because so much deck hardware is fastened from below. And leaks -- headliners are really good at masking leaks and making them difficult/impossible to trace their sources. Some boats have removable, zippered-in headliners (Ericson 381) but I'm not familiar with their construction or installation.
Exactly! Those are the two reasons that I want to address some of the headliners. I have a few ideas and some good suggestions too that might help get a good balance between the original beauty bit with more long term accessibility. 👍🙌
John, when I re-cored my deck I had that hatch opening glassed over. Made the foredeck much roomier and reduced my worry level during the Atlantic crossing.
This is how I’m leaning… like everything in life, there are pros and cons… since it will be easier to add the hatch later than it would be to remove it. This is probably what’s on the menu 👍👍
@@livingforsail you’re probably on to this already but have a look at Tayana and Westsail sprits. They made more of them than maybe anyone else so designs are proven and likely simple 😎
Mads at Sail Life just finished up doing the headliner. He covered the thin plywood with vinyl then screwed the plywood up to stringers in the ceiling. Looks good and is removable. For the bulwark cut the joint between the deck and bulwark from stem to stern. Remove the glass, dig out all the crap, replace with foam then glass.
@@livingforsail It seems to me that replacing rotten headliner plywood with more headliner plywood isn't much of an improvement. What do you guys think about using a single-sheet solution? Is there a thin-ish panel material that would accomplish the same thing without water vulnerability? Plus, having the benefit of removability for deck hardware service, wiring runs etc. could be advantageous.
I’ve used foam backed vinyl spray glued and stapled onto thin marine ply. They were held on with screws which were covered by vinyl buttons. Looks very neat and easy to remove.
@@scottcates Good point. My thoughts are.... plywood is cheap and available. This stuff has done OK for 30+ years and if I fix up the deck and prevent further water ingress they could last at least that long again... Saying that, I did find this. A bit expensive but would be a single sheet solution that might last a VERY long time. www.elitetrimworks.com/Beadboard-V-Grooved-PVC-Sheets/?srsltid=AfmBOookhAzShpf_Q-vS3kdIDdr6ucANStTKMIFJv_xxf7XnnL-T_-Jn
@@livingforsail thin (6mm max) marine ply is lightweight. Make 2mm grooves with router at say 60mm spaces - can even follow a curve if needed. Then paint with a satin finish “bathroom” paint. Looks stunning, easily removed (use heavy duty Velcro or screws if preferred, maybe even magnets!. That’s what I’m doing on my 45ft’er.
I have seen many boats where people have started to tear out the bad spots until there was no boat left. You do need to evaluate what needs to be done before you put on a new deck and then find out that the hull is full of blisters and then ends up in the dump. Those cheap little Japanese pull saws they sell at Harbor Freight are good for cutting the 5200. That headliner is also structural.
That’s an interesting idea. I have used a demo hammer in the past with a tile demo blade that worked pretty well but bulldozed any screws coming up from the bottom…
@@livingforsail You can grind an edge onto an old multitool blade. Or they can be bought that way. They work...sorta. It just depends on the adhesive being debonded.
Thanks for all the info you are suppling. I am still in denial about the state of my teak deck and I will stay that way as long as possible ;-) About the bullworks. Think of the way a dentist works when they are repairing a cavity. Drill away the rotten wood and fil the hole up with expanding epoxy foam or cheap thickened polyester or vinylester resin
Yeah, the teak decks are lovely but I’m afraid that they can cause problems :( What kind of boat are you working with? Thanks for the tip on the bulwark. I think that’s the idea I’m just not sure (yet) how I’ll dig way down in there… 🤔
Hi Jon, For replacing the plywood in the bulwarks have you looked into using “Carbon Core”? I helped my sister replace a transom on a 14 foot fiberglass boat that the plywood had totally rotted out in the transom. We cleaned out the old wood and had 1/16” Fiberglass panels to contain the cc in the transom. Once cured, it was rock hard and better than new, no wood in the transom and was waterproof.
I have not looked into that. I’ll check it out. My plan is probably to use Divinycell or Coosa to replace that plywood if/when I can get it removed. 👍👍
Hi Jon, For your plywood bulwarks replacement…You should look into “Carbon Core? I help my sister replace a transom on a 14’ foot boat with CC. When cured It was rock hard and better than new (Waterproof) without any wood in the transom. Just a thought! Duane
I built a 40 ft boat in the 1980's. Saw that there was a problem with head linings and ceilings. Due to rot cleaning and removal. Made some molds from Formica sheets, patterned and smooth. Used gelcoat and off cut glass fiber to make panels (can even color them). Fitted it with screws and trim and never had a problem with that.
Having been through a similar "refit" I can suggest that if your purpose is to sail you should have a date to get into the water. It's very easy to become obsessed with minute details. Making it safe and comfortable is good enough. I believe your refit possibly is at least 5 years.
I think you’re right. It’s easy to get consumed by small projects. I like doing the work but sailing is eventually the goal. I appreciate the feedback 👍🙏🙌
Matt over on Duracell has just addressed adding new deck hatches Jon, he made his own new hatch mounts. They came out great. You might want to tune in for some ideas, mate.
when Mads was rebuilding Athena, he fought the hull deck connection. iirc he eventually glassed it solid (eliminated the hull deck joint) after opening it up and recoring. you know your going to do the same.. or that's my bet. always enjoy your content!
First thing, I believe that i would lose the first hatch -- i would rather the uncluttered fore deck (personal preference) and one less point for water intrusion. Two ... there are many PVC "Bead Board" products that are rot resistant and way easier to clean and maintain -- I would use one of them as a replacement. As for the supports i would not screw down from above into them -- that's just another hole in the deck. While they are exposed use thickened epoxy to attach to bottom side of deck and add Riv-nut inserts at regular intervals for securing the new headliner, but keeping it removable for maintenance on wiring and fixtures. Finally, as to the bullwark issue ... it looks like they are no more than 6" tall, so i would make a jig to hold a portable drill press over the bullwark , and then use a morticing bit to work my way down through each side removing the rotten plywood. This should leave you with a nice even slot that you can pour epoxy into to harden up the very bottom (most morticing bits top out at about 5" - 5 1/4"), and then you can fill the slot with fiberglassed foam core or save time with PVC trim board as an insert to replace the plywood. Them simply fiberglass over the whole bullwark -- well that's my two cents, i hope some of it helps!!!
Thank you! Great ideas in here. I’m mulling over the forward hatch. In my mind is easier to add in later than to remove if I don’t like my decision after using the boat for a while… Cheers! 🙏👍🙌
Hi John, you just do it the way you want to do it you’re an engineer you’re not silly so just do it the way you do it don’t listen to the keyboard expert the definition of an expert is X is an unknown factor. A spurt is a drip under pressure, so don’t worry about the keyboard experts. Just keep doing what you’re doing and enjoy what you do. Thanks for the video cliff from Australia.
For me, doing it in sections is the way to go. If I did it all at once, I'd get overwhelmed by the scale of it. I think repeating the full process for each section gives you more chances to think about things and refine the process as you go.
Thanks. I’ve actually been out to see their boat a few times. It’s a completely different construction concept for their bulkheads but this comment did get me thinking that I could maybe borrow from their process somewhat… cheers.
Destroy and build! Nice Any thoughts on putting insulation up when you rebuild, suppose it’s how hot the boat got, where you intend to go. Talk to Alideno about the Bulwark, he rebuilt his
Thanks. 🙏 Yes, I think there would be opportunity here to add a bit of insulation. It’s not going to make a life changing difference, but certainly better than nothing. 👍
one solutions for the plywood on the side deck is epoxy injection…i’ve seen old wood being restored that way but i have no idea on the strength. BTW the ceiling issue gives you a great opportunity to insulate the cabin top. wires and fittings will be far lower profile than what you have. good luck!
I’ve seen people try to inject epoxy in other videos. I have my doubts about the strength as you mentioned since nothing really bonds to wet wood. Some say gorilla glue works because it doesn’t mind the moisture. I’ve thought about making a video trying some of these techniques on some test pieces… sound interesting?? Adding some extra insulation certainly won’t hurt anything. Good idea. Thanks! 🙏
@@scottcates Yes... There is at least one product (inject - a - deck) that promises to displace and "eat" the water chemically but I cannot for the life of me understand how anything injected into this mess could properly fix anything.... maybe some testing would make for an interesting video...
I put in three different headliners in my boat. The first two came out very ugly. I finally put up some four inch quarter inch thick painted oak planks attached with stainless steel screws. I painted them with a single part epoxy paint so the wood grain shows though. They are easy to take down and look nice. But they were a bit expensive.
There is a whole lot of work in renewing the boat. I would leave the headliner alone for now and focus on the structural jobs. Nip the screws sticking up off, after adding one going down next to it, and leave it at that. The bulwarks will need something done. I would try to route out the top inch or two of soggy plywood all the way along the boat, dig out as much as possible deeper down, fill with thickened epoxy, round over the top corners of the bulwarks, and lay a structural fiberglass cap over the old bulwarks tying the deck to the hull in one water proof structure.
Hello John! When refitting my own sail boat, I followed a simple rule: to reuse what can be reused, and get rid of whaterver cannot be reused. Your toerails seem to have suffered a lot of damages. You cannot afford to keep rotten plywood in them, from a security point of view as well as from a structural one (both being the same thing in the end of the day); because if the boat has been built as you say it was, notwithstanding the strenght of fiberglass, it would only result in rendering these joints weaker if you kept it inside. Or maybe because I am not an English speaking person, I just misunderstood what you were saying. Anyhow, my other advice would be for you not to submit to a few comments about your content. I myself appreciate the detailing of your work, which comes froom you being an engineer and, thus, a scientifically educated guy. Cheers! And as we say in French: bonne continuation!
While I'm not an engineer, it would seem that glueing the headliner creates a laminate, which mught in turn be providing some additional rigidity to the deck/boat. Just a thought.
Yes, I would assume that it definitely does. I wonder if designers account for any of that in the design specs (I doubt it but maybe an interesting question for Bob Perry…) 👍
@@livingforsail I have a few engineer friends, and I love watching them do things. They'll start with a task that has 5 steps, then they'll "streamline" it into 15. :)
Yeah, I often ping him for ideas. It’s hard to say if the hatch is needed… there is another one of the exact size just 2-3 ft aft. It would just mean dragging everything through the head instead of straight to the “utility closet” 🤔 I suppose I could add it back in later if I’m desperate for another leaky opening in the boat…
I would go as fast as possible to get the boat in the water. Pull the deck glass, scrap off the rot, run new screws down, grind the old ones off and dont touch any more of the headliner. Forget about the small amount of ply in the toerail and glass the area closed on the top with no cap board - it will be plenty strong. I know you are entirely capable of making that boat perfect but the time commitment is great. I am also an engineer and look fprward to seeing you on the water.
Yeah. There is a balance point here between getting the boat ready and actually having time to enjoy it… I do like the project work also thankfully. I appreciate the perspective. Thanks! 🙏 👍
fein and Bosch created the oscillating tool std. the original is pin drive the current design is Starlock. 3rd tier manufacturers like Ryobi still use pin drive rather than pay license. Ramjet did the same decades ago slightly varying the SDS masonry but standard developed by Bosch to avoid fees.
To fix the bull walks what about cutting the top off and getting small electric chainsaw into there to dig the plywood out, the same way they do when fixing a transom with pourable core , then you could use a pourable core like carbon core etc or fill it with pourable close cell foam ???? Just throwing some ideas about
You mean like this?! [holding up cheap Amazon chainsaw that I bought a few weeks ago to test this idea out] - too bad I can’t post pictures in the comments…. This seems like the most direct and least invasive method. I’ll probably cut open a section and see how it goes. Thanks!! 🙏 👍🙌
24:00 Bulwarks, Aladino did Magic Carpets Bulwarks right bro. I know you follow them and I know deep down you know the answer to this. You will never sleep at night knowing that rotten plywood is there.
Yeah you’re 100% correct. You’ve been watching me long enough to know how my mind works and it might not be physically possible for me to leave this alone without developing some sort of anxious tic 😳 The magic carpet bulwarks are a different breed but I’m starting to think that I could perhaps do something similar…
Hi, I really do enjoy your channel, however I’m not sure if I am alone in preferring no music on your type of content. I’m here for the rebuild and sailing. For music I have Spotify or the radio. I do watch many similar channels and to my mind, music degrades the experience rather than enhance it. Still watching and interested though. Regards
Thanks for the perspective. It’s something to think about. Maybe I’ll make a video that synchs up perfectly with dark side of the moon like they did with the original wizard of Oz… 🤔
You could use the hatch "flange" to make a female mold, and then pop out a copy... work yes, but a great skill to build. Duracell Project Ep 140 recently epoxied up hatch flanges.., have a look, his method my inspire you to try something not yet thought of. The rotten wood in the bulwarks has to go. You can't go through all this work removing wet, rotting wood from the deck, only to leave wet, rotting bulwarks. You're always going to know they are there.... and it's gonna eat away at your brain... (or at least it would mine) replace with foam.
Great ideas. I was thinking about trying to use that old part as a plug. It would be a good skill to learn as you mentioned. 👍 I agree about the wood in the bulwarks. It will drive me mad. I’m just not sure yet the best way to tackle them … 🤔
This episode was a bit exploratory. I think those screws can be cut off IF a new screw is run down from the top into the old brace right next to it before it’s removed. Without them, I’m pretty sure that the headliner would start to wiggle loose. The only issue is that some of the old plywood braces are damaged and delaminated but that might just be how it goes in some areas. …
@@livingforsail Right.... I redid mine w cheap Rona Fluted Sheet Polypropylene and happy having easily removable and looks nice trimmed. Not a big fan of headliner adhesive that creates moisture trapping voids
I'd leave the headliner wherever possible; it's only cosmetic, so only fix if it's unpretty. If and where you do remove it I'd put insulation, but that's low priority. I'd absolutely fix the bulwarks, otherwise you risk having an endless series of small leaks along the inside of the deck-hull joint, such as in the upper corner of bulkheads and other places where they couldn't reach or didn't do a perfect job glassing them together from the inside. Water leaking into the inside of the bulwark in one spot can leak out into the inside of the boat at some other place, making the source of the leak impossible to find. (I had this problem on my first boat). Not to mention that the deck-hull joint is highly structural! I'd do something similar to what @jimscheltens2647 suggests below: Try to dig out the worst of the plywood (but don't worry too much about getting every last bit) and backfill with thickened epoxy and bits of divinycell where they fit. Grind both outsides of the bulwark ~10cm down, round the top corners and glass over. Something similar for the mooring pass-through holes and other cavities. Make sure no water can enter the inside-bulwark cavity from the stemhead fitting. Personally I'd ditch the wood trim on top in favor of ever setting sail. I grew up cruising the world with my parents and brother on a boat that dad built, and it was an awesome childhood. A serious word of warning though: Dad took 17 years to finish the boat (heh, "finish". Boats are never finished, but some are ready to set sail). The biggest thing that made it take so long was his perfectionism, much like what you describe in other videos. When he started (~40 years ago, before he met mom) he thought he'd be done in two years. I think if he would have been 5% more perfectionist he would have taken 30 years, and if he would have been 10% more perfectionist he would have never finished at all. A friend of his started building a boat at the same time, and will never finish. He's over 80 now, and will wistfully come down to the boat and sit with a cup of coffee and dream for a few hours now and then, lamenting his reumatism and denying the starting signs of dementia. If I were you, I'd fucus on only what is needed to get the boat in the water. Then sail for one season, and for that season try to avoid fixing anything non-critical, add it all to the list but focus on enjoying the sailing. That way you have a goal with a nice payoff for both you and your partner; that goal will probably help you prioritize beforehand, and should give you lots of inspiration after (besides, you're bound to find more issues and changes you'd like to make when you first set sail.) After that season you can make a decision about whether what you really want to do is to sail, or if the priority is to work on the boat until it's perfect. People like the Duracell project, Sailing Uma, and Odd life crafting I feel set a reasonable standard, though Duracell really intimidate me with the size of their undertaking. Fair winds
The CG is a different animal but I could probably borrow some of those methods. I’ve seen their videos and actually even visited the boats a couple times. I’m so blown away by their work!!
To hell with whacking those moles. Pull a 'Dirty Harry' on their wet soggy asses, ha-ha. On the serious side. I agree with those who've commented; leave the inside alone for now. I've noticed you're refitting Antidote as you move from the bow to the stern. It doesn't seem coordinated or efficient. Look at how houses are built; 1st the land is excavated, 2nd the footings are placed, 3rd the foundation is poured, then the wooden frame is constructed... & so, & so on. Everything happens in a sequence. Each step is completed before they proceed to the next step (usually). Home renovations are also sequential, but the sequence of tasks are just reversed. Antidote's refit needs to be orchestrated like a home renovation, not like a game of pinball, ha-ha. Look at it like this: if you're going to replace the soggy balsa core, find it all, then replace it all. You'll become more proficient & faster by completing the entire task. Be efficient like a refit terminator, ha-ha. You're completing all of these tasks by yourself as you learn how to perform them. So try planning out each exterior task in a sequence in advance. Do you work on Antidote on a full-time basis? Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the input. 🙏 I can appreciate your point. There are a few reasons that I like to move around but I would like to really focus on the deck for a while and see some progress there.
wowww I watch quite a few repair videos. 'Unfortunate discovery' is an understatement. Love your work. Perseverance is a good quality.
Haha. It is an understatement indeed. Oh well. We press on.
Thanks for the feedback 🙏👍🙌
I built wooden dories from hundred year old patterns in the 70s. I enjoy your thoughtfulness and care that you share in your videos. Like many others, Uma and Sail Life are tied with yours for favorite boat project channels!
Wow. Thank you for the kind comparison. I’ve been a fan of Mad’s work for a long time. All the best to you. Cheers. 🙏👍🙌
Love your channel!
Thanks a lot! 🙏🙏
It's a great way to do it!
I’m pretty happy with it. Thanks!🙏
So close to 10k. Subs way to go. As far as your headliner’s go keep it simple and clean. Most of all ask your beautiful lady on what she thinks. Andy seems to be a great resource also.
Yes. THAT is a very good piece of advice. I’ll make sure Bridget gets a say.
Yeah, 10k subs in the next couple of days. Wow. I’m humbled! 👍🙌🙏
I love this video series...especially the core replacements, bulkhead builds, glasswork and epoxy-ing. I like the gameplan of replacing sections of the core, from one end to the other. The reason I like your approach is that a comletely uncored deck will have NO structural support. And the shape of the deck will get real wonky, real fast. Moar Anchor Locker, please ;) 8:24
Thank you. I really appreciate that. 🙏
I’m glad that you enjoyed the shoutout to all of the people that have had enough anchor locker content for now. Haha.
I just watched the whole series from the beginning in two days. I watch some sailing channels and I have watched a lot of refits. But the explanations that have been given I feel like I now understand. I’m not a boat guy I have always built race cars. But watching this stuff makes me want to build a sailboat in the middle of the mid west.
Wow. Thanks for watching! … all of it!
I appreciate the feedback a lot 🙏👍🙌
I say you go for it! I’ll help you get the boat moved someday 😉
On my Rehab project, I chose to go back with double bubble for radiant insulation, followed by a foam liner with a high quality automotive headliner to finish. The vbirth is much more comfortable now significantly reducing condensation.
Insulation would be a great idea. Thanks for the tip. Cheers ! 🙏👍🙌
In my late teens/early twenties I was fortunate enough to work with some high school friends in the summers between university semesters. We did maintenance for CPR in the beautiful mountains of BC, near Revelstoke. They coined the phrase, "There's no point playing pattycake!" I still use it when a job needs doing that I don't particular want to do. I don't see you playing pattycake anytime soon. Your work ethic is too strong. Enjoy the future challenges!
Love the content!
Haha. That’s right! There’s a few jobs like that around here! 🤣🙌👍
Danke!
Thank YOU! (I’ll put this towards a nice Helles bier) Prost! 🍻
I liken boat repair to going through the stages of grief. At first you don't want to accept it. "I'll be careful and preserve everything I can" but like grief you finally accept it and "rip it all out and put in new" lol. Anyhow I'm convinced with all my car restoration experience (and currently refitting my own boat) the only proper way to bring an old boat up to modern standards is to completey gut it inside and out, sandblast it inside and out and rebuild. Sailing Uma is basically doing this now. Those bulwarks are going to have to come out, you know it, jump to end of the grief stages and bypass the heart ache! Good luck. Look forward to seeing your videos, and love all the details.
Haha. Yeah, I think that’s a good comparison. It’s time for me to get past bargaining and get on with accepting it. Haha. On we go and thank you for the feedback. 👍🙌🙏
Sail Life and Sailing Uma can give you lot of ideas.
Yes, good call. There are a lot of channels out there doing good work. I try to watch something while I’m doing some morning exercise. 👍🙌
Yea like don’t do what we did,Uma don’t have a clue what they are doing
Nice work Jon. It looks so easy on your videos, but I know better. Its HARD work. I have no idea what do do about the plywood. Maybe seal it up if possible. I dont know how you would dry it up. Anyway, great video as always. I always learn something while watching your videos.
Haha. Yeah, it’s really hard work to make it look easy. 🤣
Thanks for the feedback as always. Much appreciated! 🙏👍🙌
Hi John, your Fein blade is the Starlock type, the same as Bosch. You can buy adapters to either add to a different oscillating tool so that it accepts these blades or to add to a flat blade so that it can be used with a Starlock tool. 5:14
Thanks. 👍👍
No need to worry about showing all of the steps in the build. Those of us that watch boat refit channels love the detail. The slickest system I have seen is the Fastmount Panel mounting system.
Thanks for the tip on those. Very interesting fastening system. Cheers!
🙏👍🙌
Create a mold from the old deck hatch and build a new one. You will develop skills creating the mold that might come in handy later on in this build.
Thanks. I like the idea. If I’m going to keep the hatch, this is probably how I’ll do it. 👍🙏🙌
Hey man great job!you Could use forstner bits they do a great job at clearing the screw heads , really clean and easy 👍🏻
Thanks! 🙏 yeah. Those would do a good job! 👍
Definitely do sections at a time
Thanks for the input 👍
I can't wait to see what headliner solutions come up. I love the idea of removable headliners because so much deck hardware is fastened from below. And leaks -- headliners are really good at masking leaks and making them difficult/impossible to trace their sources. Some boats have removable, zippered-in headliners (Ericson 381) but I'm not familiar with their construction or installation.
Exactly! Those are the two reasons that I want to address some of the headliners.
I have a few ideas and some good suggestions too that might help get a good balance between the original beauty bit with more long term accessibility. 👍🙌
John, when I re-cored my deck I had that hatch opening glassed over. Made the foredeck much roomier and reduced my worry level during the Atlantic crossing.
This is how I’m leaning… like everything in life, there are pros and cons… since it will be easier to add the hatch later than it would be to remove it. This is probably what’s on the menu 👍👍
Glad to see you’re able to keep the old h/l for templates, save a lot of time there….
Yes. I’m hoping so. It looks like they Will work well for that purpose. 🙌👍
@@livingforsail you’re probably on to this already but have a look at Tayana and Westsail sprits. They made more of them than maybe anyone else so designs are proven and likely simple 😎
Mads at Sail Life just finished up doing the headliner. He covered the thin plywood with vinyl then screwed the plywood up to stringers in the ceiling. Looks good and is removable. For the bulwark cut the joint between the deck and bulwark from stem to stern. Remove the glass, dig out all the crap, replace with foam then glass.
Thanks. That’s probably the plan more or less. I appreciate the feedback. 👍🙏🙌
@@livingforsail It seems to me that replacing rotten headliner plywood with more headliner plywood isn't much of an improvement. What do you guys think about using a single-sheet solution? Is there a thin-ish panel material that would accomplish the same thing without water vulnerability? Plus, having the benefit of removability for deck hardware service, wiring runs etc. could be advantageous.
I’ve used foam backed vinyl spray glued and stapled onto thin marine ply. They were held on with screws which were covered by vinyl buttons. Looks very neat and easy to remove.
@@scottcates Good point. My thoughts are.... plywood is cheap and available. This stuff has done OK for 30+ years and if I fix up the deck and prevent further water ingress they could last at least that long again...
Saying that, I did find this. A bit expensive but would be a single sheet solution that might last a VERY long time.
www.elitetrimworks.com/Beadboard-V-Grooved-PVC-Sheets/?srsltid=AfmBOookhAzShpf_Q-vS3kdIDdr6ucANStTKMIFJv_xxf7XnnL-T_-Jn
@@livingforsail thin (6mm max) marine ply is lightweight. Make 2mm grooves with router at say 60mm spaces - can even follow a curve if needed. Then paint with a satin finish “bathroom” paint. Looks stunning, easily removed (use heavy duty Velcro or screws if preferred, maybe even magnets!. That’s what I’m doing on my 45ft’er.
I have seen many boats where people have started to tear out the bad spots until there was no boat left. You do need to evaluate what needs to be done before you put on a new deck and then find out that the hull is full of blisters and then ends up in the dump. Those cheap little Japanese pull saws they sell at Harbor Freight are good for cutting the 5200. That headliner is also structural.
The hull didn’t have bad blisters. A few small ones here and there. The hull is generally in good shape. 👍
I liked and subscribed to help you out 👍👍
Thank you! 🙏 I recognize the name from many comments in the past. Thanks for making it official now 😉🤣
Alidino on sailing Magic Carpet addresses rotten bull works on his Cape George cutter and does a masterful job in remaking them waterproof.
if those two ever work together fastidiousness will reach critical levels!
Haha. 😆
Yes, they did a great job on those. Our were built a bit different but perhaps there can be some similarities… 🤔
Here's a tip you could add a floor scraper to a reciprocating saw and Buzz that Balsa right out of there
That’s an interesting idea. I have used a demo hammer in the past with a tile demo blade that worked pretty well but bulldozed any screws coming up from the bottom…
It would be interesting to try it 🙌🤔
@@livingforsail You can grind an edge onto an old multitool blade. Or they can be bought that way. They work...sorta. It just depends on the adhesive being debonded.
@@scottcates Thanks!
John, please do the bullwarks proper. You will sleep better nights.
Best wishes from Northern Manitoba.
You’re right 👍
Thanks for all the info you are suppling. I am still in denial about the state of my teak deck and I will stay that way as long as possible ;-)
About the bullworks. Think of the way a dentist works when they are repairing a cavity. Drill away the rotten wood and fil the hole up with expanding epoxy foam or cheap thickened polyester or vinylester resin
Yeah, the teak decks are lovely but I’m afraid that they can cause problems :(
What kind of boat are you working with?
Thanks for the tip on the bulwark. I think that’s the idea I’m just not sure (yet) how I’ll dig way down in there… 🤔
@@livingforsail I have a Trintella III form 1972
@@heelgraag Very cool.
Hi Jon,
For replacing the plywood in the bulwarks have you looked into using “Carbon Core”? I helped my sister replace a transom on a 14 foot fiberglass boat that the plywood had totally rotted out in the transom. We cleaned out the old wood and had 1/16” Fiberglass panels to contain the cc in the transom. Once cured, it was rock hard and better than new, no wood in the transom and was waterproof.
I have not looked into that. I’ll check it out. My plan is probably to use Divinycell or Coosa to replace that plywood if/when I can get it removed. 👍👍
Hi Jon,
For your plywood bulwarks replacement…You should look into “Carbon Core? I help my sister replace a transom on a 14’ foot boat with CC. When cured It was rock hard and better than new (Waterproof) without any wood in the transom. Just a thought! Duane
Thanks. I’ll look into that! 🙏👍🙌
I built a 40 ft boat in the 1980's. Saw that there was a problem with head linings and ceilings. Due to rot cleaning and removal. Made some molds from Formica sheets, patterned and smooth. Used gelcoat and off cut glass fiber to make panels (can even color them). Fitted it with screws and trim and never had a problem with that.
Thanks for the tip 🙏👍
Having been through a similar "refit" I can suggest that if your purpose is to sail you should have a date to get into the water. It's very easy to become obsessed with minute details. Making it safe and comfortable is good enough. I believe your refit possibly is at least 5 years.
I think you’re right. It’s easy to get consumed by small projects. I like doing the work but sailing is eventually the goal. I appreciate the feedback 👍🙏🙌
I took the prisms out too, and replaced with interior LED lighting
I’m REALLY hoping to keep the prisms using a new modified mounting method. We will see if I can pull it off. Otherwise I’ll do the same too. 👍🙌
Matt over on Duracell has just addressed adding new deck hatches Jon, he made his own new hatch mounts. They came out great. You might want to tune in for some ideas, mate.
Yeah, I saw his latest video come out this week. I like his idea to build the little water dams around the hatches too. Thanks!! 🙏 🙌
when Mads was rebuilding Athena, he fought the hull deck connection. iirc he eventually glassed it solid (eliminated the hull deck joint) after opening it up and recoring. you know your going to do the same.. or that's my bet. always enjoy your content!
Yeah, I think it’s got to go too… it will haunt my dreams if I don’t fix it…
First thing, I believe that i would lose the first hatch -- i would rather the uncluttered fore deck (personal preference) and one less point for water intrusion. Two ... there are many PVC "Bead Board" products that are rot resistant and way easier to clean and maintain -- I would use one of them as a replacement. As for the supports i would not screw down from above into them -- that's just another hole in the deck. While they are exposed use thickened epoxy to attach to bottom side of deck and add Riv-nut inserts at regular intervals for securing the new headliner, but keeping it removable for maintenance on wiring and fixtures. Finally, as to the bullwark issue ... it looks like they are no more than 6" tall, so i would make a jig to hold a portable drill press over the bullwark , and then use a morticing bit to work my way down through each side removing the rotten plywood. This should leave you with a nice even slot that you can pour epoxy into to harden up the very bottom (most morticing bits top out at about 5" - 5 1/4"), and then you can fill the slot with fiberglassed foam core or save time with PVC trim board as an insert to replace the plywood. Them simply fiberglass over the whole bullwark -- well that's my two cents, i hope some of it helps!!!
Thank you! Great ideas in here. I’m mulling over the forward hatch. In my mind is easier to add in later than to remove if I don’t like my decision after using the boat for a while…
Cheers! 🙏👍🙌
Hi John, you just do it the way you want to do it you’re an engineer you’re not silly so just do it the way you do it don’t listen to the keyboard expert the definition of an expert is X is an unknown factor. A spurt is a drip under pressure, so don’t worry about the keyboard experts. Just keep doing what you’re doing and enjoy what you do. Thanks for the video cliff from Australia.
Thanks Cliff. I appreciate that. Cheers! 🙏👍🙌
For me, doing it in sections is the way to go. If I did it all at once, I'd get overwhelmed by the scale of it. I think repeating the full process for each section gives you more chances to think about things and refine the process as you go.
Yeah. That’s a good way to look at it. Thanks! 🙌🙏👍
Check out how Alidino on Sailing Magic Carpet replaced his bulwarks with foam to get rid of the ply.
Thanks. I’ve actually been out to see their boat a few times. It’s a completely different construction concept for their bulkheads but this comment did get me thinking that I could maybe borrow from their process somewhat… cheers.
Destroy and build! Nice
Any thoughts on putting insulation up when you rebuild, suppose it’s how hot the boat got, where you intend to go. Talk to Alideno about the Bulwark, he rebuilt his
Thanks. 🙏
Yes, I think there would be opportunity here to add a bit of insulation. It’s not going to make a life changing difference, but certainly better than nothing. 👍
one solutions for the plywood on the side deck is epoxy injection…i’ve seen old wood being restored that way but i have no idea on the strength. BTW the ceiling issue gives you a great opportunity to insulate the cabin top. wires and fittings will be far lower profile than what you have. good luck!
I’ve seen people try to inject epoxy in other videos. I have my doubts about the strength as you mentioned since nothing really bonds to wet wood. Some say gorilla glue works because it doesn’t mind the moisture.
I’ve thought about making a video trying some of these techniques on some test pieces… sound interesting??
Adding some extra insulation certainly won’t hurt anything. Good idea. Thanks! 🙏
@@livingforsail Wouldn't the water still be trapped in the wooden core? I really hate wooden cores...
@@scottcates Yes... There is at least one product (inject - a - deck) that promises to displace and "eat" the water chemically but I cannot for the life of me understand how anything injected into this mess could properly fix anything.... maybe some testing would make for an interesting video...
I put in three different headliners in my boat. The first two came out very ugly. I finally put up some four inch quarter inch thick painted oak planks attached with stainless steel screws. I painted them with a single part epoxy paint so the wood grain shows though. They are easy to take down and look nice. But they were a bit expensive.
That’s a good idea. So each piece is removable without disturbing the neighbors? (Probably not tongue and groove if 1/4” thick) do you have gaps?
@@livingforsail yes each piece is removable. The gaps are very minimal.
@@danknox9986 Right on. That sounds like a good solution.
There is a whole lot of work in renewing the boat. I would leave the headliner alone for now and focus on the structural jobs. Nip the screws sticking up off, after adding one going down next to it, and leave it at that. The bulwarks will need something done. I would try to route out the top inch or two of soggy plywood all the way along the boat, dig out as much as possible deeper down, fill with thickened epoxy, round over the top corners of the bulwarks, and lay a structural fiberglass cap over the old bulwarks tying the deck to the hull in one water proof structure.
Thank you for the input. I think there’s a good plan here. Cheers. 🙏👍🙌
Hello John! When refitting my own sail boat, I followed a simple rule: to reuse what can be reused, and get rid of whaterver cannot be reused. Your toerails seem to have suffered a lot of damages. You cannot afford to keep rotten plywood in them, from a security point of view as well as from a structural one (both being the same thing in the end of the day); because if the boat has been built as you say it was, notwithstanding the strenght of fiberglass, it would only result in rendering these joints weaker if you kept it inside. Or maybe because I am not an English speaking person, I just misunderstood what you were saying. Anyhow, my other advice would be for you not to submit to a few comments about your content. I myself appreciate the detailing of your work, which comes froom you being an engineer and, thus, a scientifically educated guy. Cheers! And as we say in French: bonne continuation!
Merci!
[your English seems better than my French]
I really appreciate the input about the boat as well as the channel “style”. 🙏👍🙌
While I'm not an engineer, it would seem that glueing the headliner creates a laminate, which mught in turn be providing some additional rigidity to the deck/boat. Just a thought.
Yes, I would assume that it definitely does. I wonder if designers account for any of that in the design specs (I doubt it but maybe an interesting question for Bob Perry…)
👍
@@livingforsail I have a few engineer friends, and I love watching them do things. They'll start with a task that has 5 steps, then they'll "streamline" it into 15. :)
@@nicholasblue Haha! Yeah... "There has to be a harder way?!"
I would pose this question to Aladino. He’s going to give you the best advice. I would delete the forward hatch if not needed.
Yeah, I often ping him for ideas. It’s hard to say if the hatch is needed… there is another one of the exact size just 2-3 ft aft.
It would just mean dragging everything through the head instead of straight to the “utility closet” 🤔
I suppose I could add it back in later if I’m desperate for another leaky opening in the boat…
I would go as fast as possible to get the boat in the water. Pull the deck glass, scrap off the rot, run new screws down, grind the old ones off and dont touch any more of the headliner. Forget about the small amount of ply in the toerail and glass the area closed on the top with no cap board - it will be plenty strong. I know you are entirely capable of making that boat perfect but the time commitment is great. I am also an engineer and look fprward to seeing you on the water.
Yeah. There is a balance point here between getting the boat ready and actually having time to enjoy it… I do like the project work also thankfully.
I appreciate the perspective. Thanks! 🙏 👍
fein and Bosch created the oscillating tool std. the original is pin drive the current design is Starlock. 3rd tier manufacturers like Ryobi still use pin drive rather than pay license. Ramjet did the same decades ago slightly varying the SDS masonry but standard developed by Bosch to avoid fees.
Interesting. Thanks! 👍
Fein is the best oscillating tool on the market anyway. Just stick with that.
It’s a great little unit. 👍 [not sponsored] 🤣
To fix the bull walks what about cutting the top off and getting small electric chainsaw into there to dig the plywood out, the same way they do when fixing a transom with pourable core , then you could use a pourable core like carbon core etc or fill it with pourable close cell foam ???? Just throwing some ideas about
You mean like this?! [holding up cheap Amazon chainsaw that I bought a few weeks ago to test this idea out] - too bad I can’t post pictures in the comments….
This seems like the most direct and least invasive method. I’ll probably cut open a section and see how it goes.
Thanks!! 🙏 👍🙌
I suggest redoing the entire bulwarks just for your own peace of mind and for safety reasons I would replace the entire thing
Thank you. I think you’re right. 👍🙏🙌
24:00 Bulwarks, Aladino did Magic Carpets Bulwarks right bro. I know you follow them and I know deep down you know the answer to this. You will never sleep at night knowing that rotten plywood is there.
Yeah you’re 100% correct. You’ve been watching me long enough to know how my mind works and it might not be physically possible for me to leave this alone without developing some sort of anxious tic 😳
The magic carpet bulwarks are a different breed but I’m starting to think that I could perhaps do something similar…
Hi, I really do enjoy your channel, however I’m not sure if I am alone in preferring no music on your type of content. I’m here for the rebuild and sailing. For music I have Spotify or the radio. I do watch many similar channels and to my mind, music degrades the experience rather than enhance it. Still watching and interested though. Regards
Thanks for the perspective. It’s something to think about. Maybe I’ll make a video that synchs up perfectly with dark side of the moon like they did with the original wizard of Oz… 🤔
Can’t offer any help or suggestions. I still burn myself baking after fifty years. Power through. 💪
No problem. Thanks for chiming in all the same. 👍
You could use the hatch "flange" to make a female mold, and then pop out a copy... work yes, but a great skill to build. Duracell Project Ep 140 recently epoxied up hatch flanges.., have a look, his method my inspire you to try something not yet thought of. The rotten wood in the bulwarks has to go. You can't go through all this work removing wet, rotting wood from the deck, only to leave wet, rotting bulwarks. You're always going to know they are there.... and it's gonna eat away at your brain... (or at least it would mine) replace with foam.
Great ideas. I was thinking about trying to use that old part as a plug. It would be a good skill to learn as you mentioned. 👍
I agree about the wood in the bulwarks. It will drive me mad. I’m just not sure yet the best way to tackle them … 🤔
Re screws protruding up into deck/core is removing them necessary? Why not cut off flush to deck w multi tool?
This episode was a bit exploratory. I think those screws can be cut off IF a new screw is run down from the top into the old brace right next to it before it’s removed.
Without them, I’m pretty sure that the headliner would start to wiggle loose.
The only issue is that some of the old plywood braces are damaged and delaminated but that might just be how it goes in some areas. …
@@livingforsail Right.... I redid mine w cheap Rona Fluted Sheet Polypropylene and happy having easily removable and looks nice trimmed. Not a big fan of headliner adhesive that creates moisture trapping voids
@@LarusDave yeah, I was looking at some PVC bead board that would keep the look and prevent moisture issues...
Remove the bulwark and rebuild
I hadn’t really thought about it that way before. 🤔. I’ll think more about that idea. Thanks! 👍
reuse
👍
I'd leave the headliner wherever possible; it's only cosmetic, so only fix if it's unpretty. If and where you do remove it I'd put insulation, but that's low priority.
I'd absolutely fix the bulwarks, otherwise you risk having an endless series of small leaks along the inside of the deck-hull joint, such as in the upper corner of bulkheads and other places where they couldn't reach or didn't do a perfect job glassing them together from the inside. Water leaking into the inside of the bulwark in one spot can leak out into the inside of the boat at some other place, making the source of the leak impossible to find. (I had this problem on my first boat). Not to mention that the deck-hull joint is highly structural!
I'd do something similar to what @jimscheltens2647 suggests below: Try to dig out the worst of the plywood (but don't worry too much about getting every last bit) and backfill with thickened epoxy and bits of divinycell where they fit. Grind both outsides of the bulwark ~10cm down, round the top corners and glass over. Something similar for the mooring pass-through holes and other cavities. Make sure no water can enter the inside-bulwark cavity from the stemhead fitting. Personally I'd ditch the wood trim on top in favor of ever setting sail.
I grew up cruising the world with my parents and brother on a boat that dad built, and it was an awesome childhood.
A serious word of warning though: Dad took 17 years to finish the boat (heh, "finish". Boats are never finished, but some are ready to set sail). The biggest thing that made it take so long was his perfectionism, much like what you describe in other videos. When he started (~40 years ago, before he met mom) he thought he'd be done in two years. I think if he would have been 5% more perfectionist he would have taken 30 years, and if he would have been 10% more perfectionist he would have never finished at all.
A friend of his started building a boat at the same time, and will never finish. He's over 80 now, and will wistfully come down to the boat and sit with a cup of coffee and dream for a few hours now and then, lamenting his reumatism and denying the starting signs of dementia.
If I were you, I'd fucus on only what is needed to get the boat in the water. Then sail for one season, and for that season try to avoid fixing anything non-critical, add it all to the list but focus on enjoying the sailing. That way you have a goal with a nice payoff for both you and your partner; that goal will probably help you prioritize beforehand, and should give you lots of inspiration after (besides, you're bound to find more issues and changes you'd like to make when you first set sail.) After that season you can make a decision about whether what you really want to do is to sail, or if the priority is to work on the boat until it's perfect.
People like the Duracell project, Sailing Uma, and Odd life crafting I feel set a reasonable standard, though Duracell really intimidate me with the size of their undertaking.
Fair winds
Your comments are well said & full of wisdom.
Thank you for this very thoughtful comment. I think there is a lot of wisdom here. Much appreciated! 👍🙌🙏🙏
Agreed! 👍
Replace the bulwalk, see magic carpet.
The CG is a different animal but I could probably borrow some of those methods. I’ve seen their videos and actually even visited the boats a couple times. I’m so blown away by their work!!
To hell with whacking those moles. Pull a 'Dirty Harry' on their wet soggy asses, ha-ha.
On the serious side. I agree with those who've commented; leave the inside alone for now. I've noticed you're refitting Antidote as you move from the bow to the stern. It doesn't seem coordinated or efficient. Look at how houses are built; 1st the land is excavated, 2nd the footings are placed, 3rd the foundation is poured, then the wooden frame is constructed... & so, & so on. Everything happens in a sequence. Each step is completed before they proceed to the next step (usually). Home renovations are also sequential, but the sequence of tasks are just reversed.
Antidote's refit needs to be orchestrated like a home renovation, not like a game of pinball, ha-ha. Look at it like this: if you're going to replace the soggy balsa core, find it all, then replace it all. You'll become more proficient & faster by completing the entire task. Be efficient like a refit terminator, ha-ha. You're completing all of these tasks by yourself as you learn how to perform them. So try planning out each exterior task in a sequence in advance.
Do you work on Antidote on a full-time basis?
Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the input. 🙏
I can appreciate your point. There are a few reasons that I like to move around but I would like to really focus on the deck for a while and see some progress there.
I would like to look at your sight but 40% of it is covered with huge text, to bad
🤔