Looking forward to see how you do the forward hatch. I'll be doing mine sometime before Xmas so I'll be very interested to see how you do it. Great channel btw, you're doing good stuff.
For a cheap and effective vacuum cleaner hose mount you could probably use a cheap symbol stand for drums. Multiple adjustable arms and heavy duty enough to work I think
Another well done job. That will be so much stronger than the balsa and will last a lifetime! That's going to be a REALLY nice boat! Your fiber glass skills continue to grow. Great video as always Jon.
Love the shaping of the foam and it all went together in a pure way that I am sure is dope. One thing I would urge you to focus on is forget about speed. The people who made this boat had to think about speed because it is, for them a commodity... they were under pressure to pop them out with a enough speed that everyone, including the lowliest worker could make some coin. They made something really nice, that lasted 40+ years, but your goal should be to do it right, under the skin layer, so you'll know, it will last the rest of your lifetime. You are doing that, through trial and sometimes error, or tweaking procedures. Keep it up. Forget about speed.... you didn't pre-sale this hull at a certain price. This is your forever hull.
Anywhere water sits on a boat made from a porous material like polyester or silicone, the water will eventually make its way inside through osmosis and rot porous material (ply, balsa, open cell foam) inside out even if fully sealed. Which is why you always want to use vinylester, epoxy, polyurethane or other water resistant coatings.
On a previous project like this I used a door jamb saw to remove the core material near the bulwarks. I don't think they make them anymore. The one I have looks like a circular saw tipped on its side with the blade able to lay flush on the bottom surface. It uses a 7" blade and can reach in about 2.5 to 3" IIRC. The ones they make now look like a large right-angle grinder. Great looking work! I'm about to start the same type project on my boat this month.
I can confirm that a "Dust Shroud" for angle grinders is highly effective at dust collection. I used one for *indoor* concrete floor repairs and it captured 99% of the concrete dust. I'm fairly confident it could be adapted for use with a flapdisk...but I haven't _actually_ tried to adapt one to a polisher for low-speed use.
The first one I tried was from harbor freight and it did not fit… it was priced right though… I have one for my 4.5” system and it’s a life saver for concrete work like you said. 👍
Love the work, On a personal Note I honestly think the forward forward hatch really doesn't need to be a thing! it's just another possible ingress of water from the deck, you have another deck window not even a full foot away from it! But I also understand this is you're boat! So that is a choice you'll have to make, correction have already made by this point. Either way taking into account how fastidious you have been thus far, I can't see a second window in the forward hold leaking anytime soon, But with two windows next to each other it will flex more and we all know what flexing does over time.
Thanks for the feedback! If you have seen the follow up video you will see what I did with the hatch! Cheers! th-cam.com/video/01Xb3cMmb74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7YGxjlWm8Rt3ZUAJ
Great stuff John, wondering if shrouds for 7” grinders don’t already exist if you could cobble one together with 8 or 10” electric stove top drip pan? Might take a day to get it right but that’s a lot of cleanup time saved. Cutting a hole for the shaft in the middle of a Small stainless dog dish might work well too. Then a hole to act as port for vacuum. Good luck!
If the purpose of all that was just to act as a fill to eliminate voids, could you not do that with an expanding foam? There is a spray-on encapsulated foam that dries hard enough to walk on as they use if for roofing material in some of the older homes in the Palm Springs area. It is sandable and waterproof. It is white and reflects the heat which is another reason they use it for roofing out there in the desert. You can block it at the edge of the fiberglass overhang with a piece of scrap wood to force the expansion down along the scupper edge. It would give an edge that you could epoxy the new deck core to and glass over. But what you did turned out just beautifully! But it did look like a more significant undertaking. Your Super flap disk sander with vacuum turned out really well! I picked up a portable flap-drum "surface refinisher" at HFT last month on special. The drums are 4" in diameter and operate just like the flap disks. They do have the abasive filled fiber drums as well. But I suppose using a belt sander with just the front roller in contact would do the same thing.
I’ve seen those drum sanders and thought those could be a good addition to the tool crib. I’ll keep an eye out. I hadn’t really thought about using expanding foam. Interesting idea. 🤔 Thanks! 🙏
Some of the consumer-level belt sanders have a super-thin nose with a flip-up cowl that I use to grind underneath doors that drag on floors and threshold fittings. I think the Black and Decker model is called "dragster" or something similar. I work on old buildings and door jambs shift, settle, and subside so I do the occational upside-down sanding on door bottom edges this way. It also has a dust collection port.
Great idea Scott! I actually have that exact sander. Ha. Why didn’t I think of that?! I don’t know how far the reach is but I’ll test it out soon! 🙏🙏🙏👍🙌
Another idea that comes to mind is something with rotary action: Rotary Rasp or Sanding Dowel/Cylinder. Rotary rasps can be found with 1/4" hex shanks that can be coupled to a right-angle adapter and powered with an impact driver (or anything else that spins appropriately fast). They can also be coupled with six-inch or 12-inch shaft extensions for greater depth reach or a lower angle of the grinding patch. Here's a German company's demo: th-cam.com/video/6fNdmEr1MjI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=74pOxja6ljGdfhDV After all, the grinded-out surfaces don't need to be flattened or smoothed very much -- you're just digging out loose material to create a stable void cavity to fill with new core and thickened epoxy. Heck, the rougher, the better for that application.
Seems like you could buzz off the screws projecting up from the lower deck skin with a cut off wheel on a small angle grinder. Cut flush to or slightly gouged into the deck and then you wouldn’t have to remove them from below.
Interesting idea… 🤔 These ones have a built in offset that would make them an awkward fit under the low clearance bulwark but maybe I could fit some arbor mounted sanding disks upside down… something to think about. Thanks for the idea. 🙏
Glad you decided to thicken the bottom skin before coring, I get worried every time you step on that hatch -- you can visually see the flex in the topside. I still think that epoxy is the way to go with the framework for the cabin top, rather than screwing down through the deck bottom skin -- you may want to access that to change it or reconfigure some day and once the topside is sealed those screws are inaccessible. I still vote to close up that forward hatch, as the fore deck is exposed to the most spray on the boat, it's just another possible point of water ingress -- all hatches eventually leak.
Was going to propose epoxy, instead of screws, for the braces supporting the headliner. But didn’t want to repeat someone else’s comment so I read first and found this one
Thanks for the input! I think you’re right about the flexing. I can slightly feel it under foot but when I watch back the video I’m amazed at the movement! I agree that an epoxy glued headliner brace system would be the best. The screwed from above system would only be for areas where it is not possible or impractical to pull down the headliner. It would be the lesser evil… 🤷♂️ I appreciate what you’re saying about deleting the forward hatch. Stay tuned 😉 Cheers! 👍🙌
It’s a good point. Where it’s possible, that would be my plan. Any areas screwed from the top could in theory be removed down the road with a metal cutting oscillating tool and the captive screw head would be forever sealed in epoxy, foam, and fiberglass … 🤷♂️
It seems to be I mixture of the pesky 1/2” plywood on the outboard end and then filled with leftover resin from the end of the day … I will be doing more digging in there soon to hopefully find out more.
In a previous video you mention that the videowork/boatwork ratio is 60/40 (??!) With the progress made so far, have you made (or updated) a workplan and schedule to complete the job, and so a rough idea on when you should be ready to set sail?
I’ve made some steps to improve the efficiency of making the videos. It’s still a large chuck of time but I think joy my days working on the boat as well as making the videos and telling the story. I don’t yet have a firm timeline yet.
Hi! If you drill screws from the deck down into the supports, wouldn't that prevent you if you ever wanted to remove or change the interior layout as the screws will be under the foam boards and you can't access them?
love the content, as always. you probably explained already but what are your thoughts about the lower skin flexing w/o the core and top skin to stiffen? are you concerned the camber of the deck will be altered?
Thank you 🙏 Yes, I’m concerned about losing the shape. Areas that have bulkheads below are held to the original shape. I have in the past made curved braces to support the shape. This is also why I’m vacuum bagging this where I can instead of weighing it down. 🙌👍
Have you decided about the bulwarks? It would be nuts to do all this great work but leave the rotten bulwarks. But if you are going to renew them would you have to remove the inner skin of the bulwarks? 👍
We will be digging in to those more soon. There’s a few different approaches that could probably including removing the inner sides of the bulwarks. We will see… 👍
The purple color comes from the hardener that I’m using. Older cans tend to discolor. West system turns dark brown/amber. This Hawk epoxy C2 hardener has turned a deep purple. It’s only aesthetic. Some tests have shown that the older hardener is even slightly stronger. 🤷♂️
I have never seen it online either. My advice (and how I did it) is to contact Diab directly to see if there are some sheets that you can order. They are a global company, so you can probably find a regional distribution center in your area… best of luck! 👍
That’s probably what I’ll do with the sections that I pull down and can access. Screwing from above would be my work around only for areas where I’m not dropping the headliner. 👍
I should have been more clear… the idea would be to glass over the screw heads with 1708 and epoxy before foaming so they would be encapsulated. This would also only be for areas where removing the interior liner is not practical or possible. 👍
I thought the same thing but realized that holes in the bottom skin don't matter to the watertight integrity of water penetrating downwards from the deck, above. I've sometimes wondered why the bottom skin isn't already full of holes, anyway because that would allow water to evacuate a soggy wooden core.
Dust attachment looks really ingenious, maybe a flare attachment on the vacuum would grab more dust.
Thanks. Yeah, I wondered about that. I might try that for version 2.0.
That camera mount vacuum attachment is a neat idea.
They are surprisingly versatile! Haha. 👍
Looking forward to see how you do the forward hatch. I'll be doing mine sometime before Xmas so I'll be very interested to see how you do it. Great channel btw, you're doing good stuff.
Thanks very much. 🙏
I have a few hatches to deal with that will get tackled in slightly different ways.
Best of luck with yours! 🙌
For a cheap and effective vacuum cleaner hose mount you could probably use a cheap symbol stand for drums. Multiple adjustable arms and heavy duty enough to work I think
Interesting idea. Thanks! 🙏
You are giving me great ideas, you make what you are doing easy to understand and follow.
Thanks for the feedback! 🙏
I’m really happy to hear (read) that. 🙌🙌
Recently found the channel and just made it through all the previous videos and am now up to date. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for watching the series. I appreciate that 👍🙏🙌
Thanks for the content. Boat work is an inevitable part of ownership unless you’re stupid rich.
Glad you enjoyed it 👍. You are 100% correct about boat work. 🙌
Another well done job. That will be so much stronger than the balsa and will last a lifetime! That's going to be a REALLY nice boat! Your fiber glass skills continue to grow. Great video as always Jon.
Thank You! 🙏
I’m definitely starting to feel more confident with the deck work and fiberglass. I appreciate the feedback as always. 👍🙌
Love the shaping of the foam and it all went together in a pure way that I am sure is dope. One thing I would urge you to focus on is forget about speed. The people who made this boat had to think about speed because it is, for them a commodity... they were under pressure to pop them out with a enough speed that everyone, including the lowliest worker could make some coin. They made something really nice, that lasted 40+ years, but your goal should be to do it right, under the skin layer, so you'll know, it will last the rest of your lifetime. You are doing that, through trial and sometimes error, or tweaking procedures. Keep it up. Forget about speed.... you didn't pre-sale this hull at a certain price. This is your forever hull.
Thanks. I think you’re right. I’d rather go slow than have to rip it up again later. Cheers!
🙏👍🙌
Anywhere water sits on a boat made from a porous material like polyester or silicone, the water will eventually make its way inside through osmosis and rot porous material (ply, balsa, open cell foam) inside out even if fully sealed. Which is why you always want to use vinylester, epoxy, polyurethane or other water resistant coatings.
Amen! 🙏
Nice job Jon, looks like there is progress with the deck... keep it up! Duane
We are getting there. Thanks! 🙏 🙌👍
Dust shroud on Amazon should work.
I’m sure there’s something out there somewhere… thanks! 🙏
On a previous project like this I used a door jamb saw to remove the core material near the bulwarks. I don't think they make them anymore. The one I have looks like a circular saw tipped on its side with the blade able to lay flush on the bottom surface. It uses a 7" blade and can reach in about 2.5 to 3" IIRC. The ones they make now look like a large right-angle grinder. Great looking work! I'm about to start the same type project on my boat this month.
That is for the idea there. 🙏 I’ve seen something like that before so I’ll keep my eyes open.
Best of luck with your project!
Great stuff! Thanks for taking us along 😊
Thank you! 🙏 👍🙌
I can confirm that a "Dust Shroud" for angle grinders is highly effective at dust collection.
I used one for *indoor* concrete floor repairs and it captured 99% of the concrete dust.
I'm fairly confident it could be adapted for use with a flapdisk...but I haven't _actually_ tried to adapt one to a polisher for low-speed use.
The first one I tried was from harbor freight and it did not fit… it was priced right though…
I have one for my 4.5” system and it’s a life saver for concrete work like you said. 👍
Thanks for this video! We're about to redo our decks on our trawler and learning from your mistakes helps immensely
Lol learning from your mistakes is hilarious 😅😅
Haha. Yeah, I’m happy to help.
All the best with your trawler project. 🙌🙌
As long as you’re having fun then I’m having fun 👍
I was repeating one of the commenters comments
Love the work, On a personal Note I honestly think the forward forward hatch really doesn't need to be a thing! it's just another possible ingress of water from the deck, you have another deck window not even a full foot away from it!
But I also understand this is you're boat!
So that is a choice you'll have to make, correction have already made by this point.
Either way taking into account how fastidious you have been thus far, I can't see a second window in the forward hold leaking anytime soon, But with two windows next to each other it will flex more and we all know what flexing does over time.
Thanks for the feedback! If you have seen the follow up video you will see what I did with the hatch! Cheers!
th-cam.com/video/01Xb3cMmb74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7YGxjlWm8Rt3ZUAJ
Definitely want to see an engineer test the Drill and Fill technique, it is so broadly accepted that It probably needs some empirical testing.
I am personally pretty interested in the idea and will probably put something together.
Thanks for the input! 🙏👍🙌
Definitely some serious flaws in shear if done in the traditional sense with poor backing plate design.
Praying Mantidote!
Ha! 🤣🤣🤣
Great stuff John, wondering if shrouds for 7” grinders don’t already exist if you could cobble one together with 8 or 10” electric stove top drip pan? Might take a day to get it right but that’s a lot of cleanup time saved. Cutting a hole for the shaft in the middle of a Small stainless dog dish might work well too. Then a hole to act as port for vacuum. Good luck!
There you go. That’s thinking outside the box. Thanks! 🙏 I might just try that. We will see. Cheers!
If the purpose of all that was just to act as a fill to eliminate voids, could you not do that with an expanding foam? There is a spray-on encapsulated foam that dries hard enough to walk on as they use if for roofing material in some of the older homes in the Palm Springs area. It is sandable and waterproof. It is white and reflects the heat which is another reason they use it for roofing out there in the desert. You can block it at the edge of the fiberglass overhang with a piece of scrap wood to force the expansion down along the scupper edge. It would give an edge that you could epoxy the new deck core to and glass over. But what you did turned out just beautifully! But it did look like a more significant undertaking.
Your Super flap disk sander with vacuum turned out really well! I picked up a portable flap-drum "surface refinisher" at HFT last month on special. The drums are 4" in diameter and operate just like the flap disks. They do have the abasive filled fiber drums as well. But I suppose using a belt sander with just the front roller in contact would do the same thing.
I’ve seen those drum sanders and thought those could be a good addition to the tool crib. I’ll keep an eye out.
I hadn’t really thought about using expanding foam. Interesting idea. 🤔
Thanks!
🙏
you actually found a use for the grinder handle?! amazing!!
Haha!! 🤣 right? 👍
Some of the consumer-level belt sanders have a super-thin nose with a flip-up cowl that I use to grind underneath doors that drag on floors and threshold fittings. I think the Black and Decker model is called "dragster" or something similar. I work on old buildings and door jambs shift, settle, and subside so I do the occational upside-down sanding on door bottom edges this way. It also has a dust collection port.
Great idea Scott! I actually have that exact sander. Ha. Why didn’t I think of that?!
I don’t know how far the reach is but I’ll test it out soon!
🙏🙏🙏👍🙌
Another idea that comes to mind is something with rotary action: Rotary Rasp or Sanding Dowel/Cylinder.
Rotary rasps can be found with 1/4" hex shanks that can be coupled to a right-angle adapter and powered with an impact driver (or anything else that spins appropriately fast). They can also be coupled with six-inch or 12-inch shaft extensions for greater depth reach or a lower angle of the grinding patch. Here's a German company's demo:
th-cam.com/video/6fNdmEr1MjI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=74pOxja6ljGdfhDV
After all, the grinded-out surfaces don't need to be flattened or smoothed very much -- you're just digging out loose material to create a stable void cavity to fill with new core and thickened epoxy. Heck, the rougher, the better for that application.
@@scottcates Thanks Scott. Another good idea!
Seems like you could buzz off the screws projecting up from the lower deck skin with a cut off wheel on a small angle grinder. Cut flush to or slightly gouged into the deck and then you wouldn’t have to remove them from below.
I wondered about that but they’d only be engaging about half of a thread on the screw through the fiberglass lower skin. … 🤔
Great job btw😊
Thanks! 🙏
@@livingforsail he just posted that 2 weeks ago.
For abrading the underside of the bulwarks, have you thought about reversing the sanding pad on your sander?
Interesting idea… 🤔
These ones have a built in offset that would make them an awkward fit under the low clearance bulwark but maybe I could fit some arbor mounted sanding disks upside down… something to think about. Thanks for the idea. 🙏
Looks like you're getting 'on top' of that soggy deck Jon ,make her submarine tight mate for some carefree future cruising.
I’m hoping to make some good forward progress on the deck on the next few months. I think we are starting to see it come together! Cheers.
Glad you decided to thicken the bottom skin before coring, I get worried every time you step on that hatch -- you can visually see the flex in the topside. I still think that epoxy is the way to go with the framework for the cabin top, rather than screwing down through the deck bottom skin -- you may want to access that to change it or reconfigure some day and once the topside is sealed those screws are inaccessible. I still vote to close up that forward hatch, as the fore deck is exposed to the most spray on the boat, it's just another possible point of water ingress -- all hatches eventually leak.
Was going to propose epoxy, instead of screws, for the braces supporting the headliner. But didn’t want to repeat someone else’s comment so I read first and found this one
Thanks for the input! I think you’re right about the flexing. I can slightly feel it under foot but when I watch back the video I’m amazed at the movement!
I agree that an epoxy glued headliner brace system would be the best. The screwed from above system would only be for areas where it is not possible or impractical to pull down the headliner. It would be the lesser evil… 🤷♂️
I appreciate what you’re saying about deleting the forward hatch. Stay tuned 😉
Cheers! 👍🙌
It’s a good point. Where it’s possible, that would be my plan.
Any areas screwed from the top could in theory be removed down the road with a metal cutting oscillating tool and the captive screw head would be forever sealed in epoxy, foam, and fiberglass … 🤷♂️
A question: is the toerail (bulwark) itself solid glass or balsa filled as well ?
It seems to be I mixture of the pesky 1/2” plywood on the outboard end and then filled with leftover resin from the end of the day … I will be doing more digging in there soon to hopefully find out more.
@@livingforsail ok, thanks for the quick answer.
Hi mate, sail life did a video a couple of months ago regarding Sanders and dust covers you might find something of interest there
Thanks. I think I saw that one too. If I recall, he ended up returning it… 🤷♂️
@@livingforsail yes he did return it and I think he said he would return to the, Makita one he used previously
In a previous video you mention that the videowork/boatwork ratio is 60/40 (??!) With the progress made so far, have you made (or updated) a workplan and schedule to complete the job, and so a rough idea on when you should be ready to set sail?
I’ve made some steps to improve the efficiency of making the videos. It’s still a large chuck of time but I think joy my days working on the boat as well as making the videos and telling the story. I don’t yet have a firm timeline yet.
Hi! If you drill screws from the deck down into the supports, wouldn't that prevent you if you ever wanted to remove or change the interior layout as the screws will be under the foam boards and you can't access them?
They would only be removable with a metal cutting oscillating tool at that point…
Nothing is ideal… haha 🤷♂️
love the content, as always. you probably explained already but what are your thoughts about the lower skin flexing w/o the core and top skin to stiffen? are you concerned the camber of the deck will be altered?
Thank you 🙏
Yes, I’m concerned about losing the shape. Areas that have bulkheads below are held to the original shape.
I have in the past made curved braces to support the shape.
This is also why I’m vacuum bagging this where I can instead of weighing it down.
🙌👍
Have you decided about the bulwarks? It would be nuts to do all this great work but leave the rotten bulwarks. But if you are going to renew them would you have to remove the inner skin of the bulwarks? 👍
Had same question. Would do more exploratory work on bulwark to understand scope.
We will be digging in to those more soon.
There’s a few different approaches that could probably including removing the inner sides of the bulwarks.
We will see… 👍
Yep. We will be looking at that in more depth in a future video. 👍
I think this question was raised in a previous video but I might be mistaken.
Random question: What's the purple filler you're adding to your epoxy resin?
The purple color comes from the hardener that I’m using. Older cans tend to discolor. West system turns dark brown/amber. This Hawk epoxy C2 hardener has turned a deep purple.
It’s only aesthetic. Some tests have shown that the older hardener is even slightly stronger. 🤷♂️
Please someone tell me what type of foam you are using. Is it a certain brand name I can’t find it with all perforated holes all over anywhere online😢
I have never seen it online either. My advice (and how I did it) is to contact Diab directly to see if there are some sheets that you can order.
They are a global company, so you can probably find a regional distribution center in your area… best of luck!
👍
For reference… the main foam that I’m using is Divinycell H100 with perforations for infusion.
Why don't you just glue the bracing for the headliner onto the deckhead. That is how they did it with my boat in 1972 and it still holds
That’s probably what I’ll do with the sections that I pull down and can access.
Screwing from above would be my work around only for areas where I’m not dropping the headliner. 👍
What? You want to do all this work, and then use screws in the deck? Surley there is a way to do this deck/headliner assembly, with NO SCREWS.
I should have been more clear… the idea would be to glass over the screw heads with 1708 and epoxy before foaming so they would be encapsulated.
This would also only be for areas where removing the interior liner is not practical or possible.
👍
I thought the same thing but realized that holes in the bottom skin don't matter to the watertight integrity of water penetrating downwards from the deck, above. I've sometimes wondered why the bottom skin isn't already full of holes, anyway because that would allow water to evacuate a soggy wooden core.
Man, stop over explaining everything and do some work!
Thanks for watching 🙏👍🙌
😉
m.th-cam.com/video/TeE0A-IalfE/w-d-xo.html&pp=2AH_CpACAQ%3D%3D