Funny you should mention the Esphigmenou Monastery monks, since they are still in communion with the EP, and haven’t adopted the “True” Orthodox way of breaking communion at first sight. When I first came across your content, I’ll admit that I enjoyed you bringing certain ecumenist actions in the Church to light, but then I saw your MO, and why you do these vids. You come off as a Donatist, by trying to “expose World Orthodoxy”, as if the grass is so much greener on the TO side. It would be like me rubbing “Archimandrite” Panteleimon or “Archbishop” Gregory in your face or any other of your hierarchs (that nobody eerily knows anything about).
I'm not sure exactly when, but at some point in the later part of the 20th century the EP created a false shadow "Espigmenou" brotherhood which is in the EP to confuse people. The actually Esphigmenou Monastery is not under the EP (yes, the EP is that petty). To your donatist claim, you calling me donatist just shows that you don't know what donatism is. I have never claimed the grass is greener, the Church has ALWAYS struggled for it's existence, anyone who thinks the "grass is greener" in the true Church is delusional. Also, rubbing Archimandrite Panteleimon etc is literally what the World Orthodox do for a living. They discredit writings of Fr. Seraphim of Platina by claiming he is righting against the Old Calendarists, when his writings are against fools like Panteleimon and other few who are just as delusional as the World Orthodox.
@@Death2Compromise I’ll have to look into the Espignenou monastery situation further if what you say is true. I know that Saints from Mt. Athos such St. Joseph the Hesychast, St. Paisios, and Elder Ephraim, all remained in communion with the EP (even though St. Paisios stopped commemorating Athenogoras, the proper way to fight ecumenism within the church).As for Donatism, it’s a heresy that states the sins of a hierarch or priest invalidate the sacraments of that jurisdiction, and by extension the laity are graceless, as well as anyone who is in communion with them. Why I thought this video was Donatist was the implication that because certain hierarchs of the Canonical Churches make ecumenist advances, that it completely invalidates those churches and their people. I haven’t seen many Orthodox use people like Panteleimon against the TO, since I don’t think many people even know who he is, but the whole TO polemic is based of exposing canonical hierarchs, and then saying it’s necessary to break communion with them. A proper debate between the two should discuss the canons, and how they were historically implemented and interpreted. For Fr. Seraphim, I could say that the TO have misinterpreted him, as in many of his letters, he actively prayed for unity between the Orthodox Churches, and maintained that the MP, while in error, still had grace. In fact most TO hold to HOCNA’s position, which Fr. Seraphim opposed, and TO don’t seem to keen on trying to mend the Church, but rather to abandon it entirely. I do hope the Canonical Churches and TO can come to reconciliation at some point, where there is no compromise in faith, canons, and doctrines, but a true union in the Orthodox faith. Sadly, I think the ones who will oppose this will be mainly TO.
@@GeorgesBlasisThe faithful are required to leave communion with OPEN heretics. The world Orthodox bishops and patriahates, when you look into them are all heretics. For example, ROCOR-MP will claim that Moscow is not ecumenist. This is a blatant lie. Fr. Seraphim reposted a year before ROCOR issued it's anathema against ecumenism or there was slightly more "wiggle room" before, even then, Fr. Seraphim wrote explicitly about him and much if ROCOR being disgusted by the OCAs "autocephaly" granted by Moscow. Fr. Seraphim even went as far to say that they were glad for the ROCOR-OCA schism. You say that the TO take Fr. Seraphim out of context, but it is the world Orthodox who do. The Church has literally canons that tell faithful to flee heretics, but the world Orthodox say that those canons are not relevant or they will argue that their clergy are not ecumenist. Do you know how the Church deals with heresy? It is the heretics who create schism, not the faithful. Another example, the calendar innovation. The Greek state church abandoned it's Orthodoxy and those who were against the innovation had to break off because it was illegal to use the Churches calendar because the state church is ecumenist.
@@Death2Compromise G Orthodox faithful are called to leave heretics, but the canon that TO mostly site (and misinterpret) in regard to this is Canon 15 of the First-Second Council, which the last sentence states those who broke communion with heretics have “been sedulous to rescue the Church from schism and division.” The TO have, on the contrary caused more and more schism and division amongst themselves, all within the past century, to the point where there are over dozen different synods most of which aren’t in communion with each other. While I do agree the MP is ecumenist (and basically a tool for the post-soviet Russian government) I think it’s false to say EVERY canonical hierarch is a heretic, such as Metropolitan Onufriy UOC, Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphou, and Bishop Luke of Syracuse, among others. As for ROCOR, they rightfully broke communion and had authority to do so under St. Tikhon’s ukaz no.362, my issue mainly lies that most TO groups have gone into schism with no ecclesiological precedent or authority. The OCA however did have the right to be granted autocephaly, the had autonomy under St. Tikhon, and the goal was to establish an independent church in America, which had already started long before ROCOR was ever formed, since the evangelizing efforts of Sts. Herman and Innocent of Alaska. The objective history I will admit is rather murky since the only sources come from either ROCOR or OCA, both of which gave differing accounts. The Church deals with heresy first by ceasing commemoration of heresy, then if possible, through anathemas and excommunication. I would agree that while the Old Calendar is superior, there is no need to be in schism over that issue now, since the canonical jurisdictions have more parishes under the Old Calendar, and no longer push the New Calendar, or persecute Old Calendarists.
@@GeorgesBlasis Moscow Patriarchate evicting true Orthodox from their churches isn't persecution? Or Esphigmenou? Also, it is heretics that create schism. They are the schismatics. If the papist calendar wasn't brought in by apostate bishops guess what? There would be no schism in Greece over the matter.
What does it mean? Can somebody explain it to me?
Are the sacraments in all orthodox churches still valid though?
I am confused
Good morning my dear 👍
We just need to be DEFIANT to these people! Yet another brilliant video! Compliance is surrender to the devil.
Amen!
Muse & True Orthodoxy was an inevitable crossover 👀
👌😄
Have to say the words of the clip work really well with the images. Orthodoxy or death!
still watching 24 hours later
This... was inevitable.
Indeed. 😂
Funny you should mention the Esphigmenou Monastery monks, since they are still in communion with the EP, and haven’t adopted the “True” Orthodox way of breaking communion at first sight. When I first came across your content, I’ll admit that I enjoyed you bringing certain ecumenist actions in the Church to light, but then I saw your MO, and why you do these vids. You come off as a Donatist, by trying to “expose World Orthodoxy”, as if the grass is so much greener on the TO side. It would be like me rubbing “Archimandrite” Panteleimon or “Archbishop” Gregory in your face or any other of your hierarchs (that nobody eerily knows anything about).
I'm not sure exactly when, but at some point in the later part of the 20th century the EP created a false shadow "Espigmenou" brotherhood which is in the EP to confuse people. The actually Esphigmenou Monastery is not under the EP (yes, the EP is that petty). To your donatist claim, you calling me donatist just shows that you don't know what donatism is. I have never claimed the grass is greener, the Church has ALWAYS struggled for it's existence, anyone who thinks the "grass is greener" in the true Church is delusional. Also, rubbing Archimandrite Panteleimon etc is literally what the World Orthodox do for a living. They discredit writings of Fr. Seraphim of Platina by claiming he is righting against the Old Calendarists, when his writings are against fools like Panteleimon and other few who are just as delusional as the World Orthodox.
@@Death2Compromise I’ll have to look into the Espignenou monastery situation further if what you say is true. I know that Saints from Mt. Athos such St. Joseph the Hesychast, St. Paisios, and Elder Ephraim, all remained in communion with the EP (even though St. Paisios stopped commemorating Athenogoras, the proper way to fight ecumenism within the church).As for Donatism, it’s a heresy that states the sins of a hierarch or priest invalidate the sacraments of that jurisdiction, and by extension the laity are graceless, as well as anyone who is in communion with them. Why I thought this video was Donatist was the implication that because certain hierarchs of the Canonical Churches make ecumenist advances, that it completely invalidates those churches and their people. I haven’t seen many Orthodox use people like Panteleimon against the TO, since I don’t think many people even know who he is, but the whole TO polemic is based of exposing canonical hierarchs, and then saying it’s necessary to break communion with them. A proper debate between the two should discuss the canons, and how they were historically implemented and interpreted. For Fr. Seraphim, I could say that the TO have misinterpreted him, as in many of his letters, he actively prayed for unity between the Orthodox Churches, and maintained that the MP, while in error, still had grace. In fact most TO hold to HOCNA’s position, which Fr. Seraphim opposed, and TO don’t seem to keen on trying to mend the Church, but rather to abandon it entirely. I do hope the Canonical Churches and TO can come to reconciliation at some point, where there is no compromise in faith, canons, and doctrines, but a true union in the Orthodox faith. Sadly, I think the ones who will oppose this will be mainly TO.
@@GeorgesBlasisThe faithful are required to leave communion with OPEN heretics. The world Orthodox bishops and patriahates, when you look into them are all heretics. For example, ROCOR-MP will claim that Moscow is not ecumenist. This is a blatant lie. Fr. Seraphim reposted a year before ROCOR issued it's anathema against ecumenism or there was slightly more "wiggle room" before, even then, Fr. Seraphim wrote explicitly about him and much if ROCOR being disgusted by the OCAs "autocephaly" granted by Moscow. Fr. Seraphim even went as far to say that they were glad for the ROCOR-OCA schism. You say that the TO take Fr. Seraphim out of context, but it is the world Orthodox who do. The Church has literally canons that tell faithful to flee heretics, but the world Orthodox say that those canons are not relevant or they will argue that their clergy are not ecumenist. Do you know how the Church deals with heresy? It is the heretics who create schism, not the faithful. Another example, the calendar innovation. The Greek state church abandoned it's Orthodoxy and those who were against the innovation had to break off because it was illegal to use the Churches calendar because the state church is ecumenist.
@@Death2Compromise G
Orthodox faithful are called to leave heretics, but the canon that TO mostly site (and misinterpret) in regard to this is Canon 15 of the First-Second Council, which the last sentence states those who broke communion with heretics have “been sedulous to rescue the Church from schism and division.” The TO have, on the contrary caused more and more schism and division amongst themselves, all within the past century, to the point where there are over dozen different synods most of which aren’t in communion with each other. While I do agree the MP is ecumenist (and basically a tool for the post-soviet Russian government) I think it’s false to say EVERY canonical hierarch is a heretic, such as Metropolitan Onufriy UOC, Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphou, and Bishop Luke of Syracuse, among others. As for ROCOR, they rightfully broke communion and had authority to do so under St. Tikhon’s ukaz no.362, my issue mainly lies that most TO groups have gone into schism with no ecclesiological precedent or authority. The OCA however did have the right to be granted autocephaly, the had autonomy under St. Tikhon, and the goal was to establish an independent church in America, which had already started long before ROCOR was ever formed, since the evangelizing efforts of Sts. Herman and Innocent of Alaska. The objective history I will admit is rather murky since the only sources come from either ROCOR or OCA, both of which gave differing accounts. The Church deals with heresy first by ceasing commemoration of heresy, then if possible, through anathemas and excommunication. I would agree that while the Old Calendar is superior, there is no need to be in schism over that issue now, since the canonical jurisdictions have more parishes under the Old Calendar, and no longer push the New Calendar, or persecute Old Calendarists.
@@GeorgesBlasis Moscow Patriarchate evicting true Orthodox from their churches isn't persecution? Or Esphigmenou? Also, it is heretics that create schism. They are the schismatics. If the papist calendar wasn't brought in by apostate bishops guess what? There would be no schism in Greece over the matter.
It's all so tiresome..