Besides Platform Uno, Avalonia (Avalonia UI & XPF) is also an option. I haven't previously used Avalonia myself and therefore didn't think of it while recording. I didn't want to exclude any product or favor one over another. Thanks for your understanding. 🙏
im very old man and old style. I dont know how to run xaml. I have spent 3 days just to make one button if its clicked its close the form. And.. failed 😅
1. WPF's concept is very advanced, it proposed the MVVM pattern around 2008, which is still a popular design pattern today. Due to it's two-way data binding, MVVM became possible. 2. In China's IT labor market, WPF has suddenly become popular again in the past two years. people here consider although MAUI includes Windows, developers generally still use it as Xamarin.Forms, which means jsut for Android and iOS. Using MAUI for desktop Windows software feels awkward, while WPF is mature choice as the Windows desktop version of MAUI. 3. WPF is not dead. but not sure for Winforms I would say.
I can't understand how people can recommend MAUI, I never got a basic project to work with it, I just got lots of wasted hours and stress, and couldn't even compile
.NET MAUI isn't really ready for windows development, you can't really even create good mouse drags for creator applications in my experience, it's missing a lot of winui functionality. and Win UI 3 just doesn't work at all for packages and release mode as it will just print out that the xaml dll is missing no matter what you do (issue ongoing for years)
All projects are not multi-platform. If developing for windows platform only then WPF is a very good choice in my opinion. Separating UI from application logic is easy in WPF and results in better overall application structure when done properly. MVVM is one choice, we use mostly similar "presenter/view" architecture with a cunning view factory, and the application layer is agnostic to whether or not an UI exists at all.
You're right. If Windows is the focus and you and your team have the knowledge and experience to build modern and maintainable applications with it, that's perfect! Good for you! I think the alternatives, such as Avalonia and Platform Uno make it simpler for newcomers to start with and even though you might not need cross-platform know, it won't hurt if you get it for a future use case. Again, great for you if WPF still works for you. I have used it for almost a decade and it solved many problems for our customers.
UWP (Universal Windows Platform) was also good, the UI was powerful (though not as powerful as WPF) and customizable, and modern-looking. The only problem was their stubbornness to force us to use their Microsoft Store, and sideloading was not straightforward. If UWP had an option to export a Windows 10 app to a single archive file that installs without the need of sideloading, and that you can simple upload to a website and let users download, it would have been the best way.
Key point for me is at 4:45 - developers do not want to tie their codebase or skillset to just one platform. This is why we have come up with Uno Platform, which extends WinUI ( as successor to WPF and UWP) to all mobile, web and non-Windows platforms.
Why not? Who want to develop an ERP architecture to Linux or Mac OS? Windows is dominant OS. Also look at EA games' Frosbite game editor what uses WPF too. Who want to develop AAA games on Linux or Mac or web browser?
i dont tk so, acturely, cross-platform development situation is less then 20% in fact. if you are a win platform developer or linux platform, you dont need to learn cross-platform develop, its just wast time.
Definitely not dead but like you I would also consider MAUI for new pet projects. For professional or enterprise projects I would probably start with Blazor apps just for ease of maintenance.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree and tell you that you're not right. From Microsoft's perspective, it may be true that WPF can only be used for development on Windows. MS promotes its own MAUI project for the development of platform independent applications, which I personally consider to be wrong, as mixing UI description in HTML with C# tends to create a sloppy style. However, there are several open source projects that allow the development of true multi-platform applications with C# and .NET Core and cover the entire range of possible target platforms. The UI is defined in XAML so that it is possible to port existing applications. I myself use Avalonia UI to create clients for Windows / Linux / macOS, although I actually lean more towards WASM, as these clients also run on mobile devices without any changes.
Thanks for your detailed comment. I think MAUI has it's place, but I currently also advocate more for Platform Uno or Avalonia for most cases. It certainly depends on the team and its experience and the existing code base. Thanks for adding some context here.
I really like your channel, but I don't agree to your conclusion that WPF shouldn't be used for new projects anymore. IMO there is no working alternative. Uno is not established yet, still too buggy. Blazor is absolutely great for Web Apps, but not good for desktop applications (e.g. for automation environments where machine parts shall be visualized). And MAUI is at the very beginning, not proven yet. And as we know Microsoft, it is not sure that MAUI will be cancelled from one day to the other. And as long there is no GOOD alternative, WPF is the best way to go for desktop applications, even for new projects.
I love your insights, Otto. I definitely see a niche where WPF can still be a viable alternative. 😎 I personally wouldn't want to start a new, long-lasting project on WPF because I think the others will catch up and develop more over time. However, it all depends on skill levels, type of application, etc. If you think for your situation WPF is still the way to go, I absolutely agree with you. It was also part of my video's message that I said you can continue to use WPF because Microsoft will continue supporting it. Just don't expect innovation or new features. Again, thanks for watching and leaving your feedback. 🙏
Hello Otto! Good insight. Just for comparing technologies, as you seem to be comparing dev approaches for building desktop applications which will run on Windows. Uno Platform is not present on Windows. Uno can be thought of a bridge technology for WinUI-built apps & codebase to run on all other non-Windows desktops, mobile and Web. So, any Windows comparison should be made with WinUI, and other approaches you mention. I'm not sure when you tried Uno last, based on feedback from people like you, we've made it a lot easier to set up projects correctly as it has been hard to for some of our users to do with .NET previews, and Visual Studio previews. I'd drop a link in here but TH-cam tends to filter those - so - if you download or just update your Visual Studio Uno Platform extension you will get the new wizard-based project startup experience which will ensure you are starting on a solid ground. I'd also appreciate hearing any direct feedback at sasha at platform dot uno.
@@sashakrsmanovic9314 Thank you very much! It's one or two years, since I took a look on Uno. I'll check this again, but don't know when, due to lack of time. The time being I only have to deal with console programs ;-) BTW: I also tried Avalonia at that time, which I liked very much too. For personal use, or for my own projects, I clearly would take both in consideration. But I'd hesitate to tell my customers to use one of them for their new projects. Too often I've seen that good programming tools / languages / environments have been cancelled or haven't been supported any longer. I know that this is not fair to all these great people who are spending their time and effort to bring these great tools forward. But that's life, and that's HARD. That's the reason we listen to HARD rock, SCNR. The best situation is, if a company is starting some new project, if they really structure their code so that the GUI can be replaced which "less" effort, it that should become necessary. Then using Uno, Avalonia & Co. is a good option.
I'm starting out with c# so newbie here, however one question I have, How are desktop apps made? I looked at WinForms, but in terms of frontend design it looks very basic, and the next being WPF that gives the ability to make a good UI. I might have missed something from WinForms, but what else is out there in terms of creating an applications that allows us to create a modern frontend?
Great question! Regarding Desktop apps, I would suggest looking at Platform Uno and Avalonia UI. Those are two modern, cross-platform solutions. WPF still has its place, but I would not advise a newcomer to learn it today.
the big and huge (and thicc) advantage of WPF against WinForms is the hardware accelerated render. If you put a list of products with their low res images, the program probably will lag. If you want more control about the render of the controls WPF has a lot of potencial compared to WinForms, but as a newbie... is harder. But at least we have ChatGPT. A simple thing like change the row color of a gridview in WPF (their variant) based on a condition was so torture, but now you can get a lot of help with the AI.
You can take a look at Siemens TIA Portal to see how much you can customize WinForms. Though I'd rather call it an abuse of the framework and it is quite slow. Sadly the development started years before WPF was released so Siemens had to "reinvent WPF" inside WinForms.
Thank you so much, I've spent 20 days learning C# and i can use it to a good level, but i don't see many videos on how to build desktop programs or games with it. I think C# can be used as a language that can be usefull when you're using other technologies for specific program creations like game engines.
You can learn Unity or Godot for game development with C#. The good thing is there are so many different frameworks, tools, and platforms that we can use with C#.
Hi Claudio, thank for your input for whether to use WPF as of today. I'm trying to build a desktop application that runs on both MacOS and Windows. I'm primarily a .NET developer and just started looking into MacOS desktop app development and I don't have any MacOS app development experience at all. I got my hands dirty with WPF almost 12 years ago and for Windows Desktop development I agree WPF very mature, stable and can still find a lot of documentation on it (been a bit rusty so been looking at documentation again).
I looked into .NET MAUI for cross platform development and found the MS documentation for developing MacOS apps very lacking when it comes to customizing the menu bar. React Native is another option for me for cross platform development in saying that you still need to know how to bridge React Native (have done React Front End Web Development) with the native OS features for both MacOS and Windows.
I have a video where I show 9 options for desktop development on .NET. Maybe that's what you want to watch next? In your situation, I'd consider Platform Uno or Avalonia UI for your project. th-cam.com/video/ze8o-Qa3v7Y/w-d-xo.html
Can you make a follow up, showing Avalonia and mentioning Avalonia XPF with which you can run you WPF apps cross platform? You could also then mention WinUI there as well. (Also note MAUI does not support Linux)
I appreciate your comment. It seems like, besides learning about the current state, people want to see more content about alternatives. So, I will see how to approach the topic. I'm not an expert in Avalonia or Uno. However, I have used WPF for over 10 years, so I felt confident providing an update about its current state. 😎
So funny I'm using the power of WPF to do things it was not designed for. Here are a few examples: 1) Azure cloud function which uses WPF to allow user to position elements on a video, if a user resizes a rectangle, a call is sent to wpf to recalculate the x,y of other elements 2) Azure function to generate very nice looking pdfs for reporting in commercial real estate using Xaml-> XPS -> PDF 3) using wpf animations to run DMX lighting, hooking into the onchange events of x,y of a dot during animation. Sending this x,y as DMX to lighting fixture.. wpf is now running my nightclub lights
Great question. It depends on what your goals are. There is Platfom Uno, Avalonia, WPF, and .NET MAUI. It depends on the requirements and what you or your team are already familiar with at this point. .NET MAUI is an up and coming tech that is still changing a lot. If you want to bet on the future, go with .NET MAUI. If you want something more stable and also need desktop or other platforms besides mobile, check out the other platforms I mentioned above.
Why would a developer not targeting Windows only, when there's virtually no market for Linux desktop (no Linux user will pay you a dime) and Apple lags far behind in terms of market shares. ( Also Apple users have different expectations on what an app should look like and behave.
Thanks for your comment. It seems like you are working in an industry like business software where that observation might be true. However, there are many use cases where companies build cross-platform apps and have success with it. Sometimes, a web app is what you need. Simple. Done. Sometimes, you have requirements for a (maybe offline) desktop app. And sometimes, you need to support Mac users or Linux users because of whatever requirements. So what's right for many, isn't right for everyone. What is your preferred technology to build Windows desktop apps these days? Do you use WPF or what is you favorite choice?
If you have the skillset and don't need cross-platform in the future, why not. However, what is holding you back from using Platform Uno or Avalonia in this case? 🙂
There are multiple options. .NET MAUI or Platform Uno, or AvaloniaUI are all viable options too. There are so many great technologies. We have a choice. 🙂
Very interesting video (new sub!). As a WPF and Xamarin developer (among other stuff) that started developing about the same time as Claudio, I totally agree with Claudio, but I still have a question... I know how to write both WPF with C# and XAML and Cocoa with Objective -C. Should I just write both versions or use NET Maui?
Welcome, and great question! I would rephrase that question from the perspective of the project, the team or the customer. Do you really want/need two different codebases? Would it be easier to use C# for the whole product? If you are completely on your own, you have a lot more freedom. But when working with others and for others, their view should also be taken into account when making such decisions. Maybe not the answer you were looking for but maybe it still helped you change the perspective and make a good decision.
WPF and MVVM have never been popular with develoeprs and are a massively unnecessary complication of something that shouldn't be so hard. There is a reason why more winform apps are still created today than WPF (microsoft stats from telemetry).
Thanks for sharing your views and experience. I have seen many companies making UI-related requirements that weren't able to fulfil with WinForms. Therefore WPF was often the choice, which allowed developers to provide a customized user interface. Of course, if you can use WinForms, nothing speaks against it.
When I started a netmaui project and the first thing I had to do, was to disable universal apps signing, it was clear to me, that it will be slow on Windows. I need speed for my apps!
I think the strength of .NET MAUI is mobile apps. Sure you can build for desktop as well, but if your focus is Windows, there are other technologies, such as Avalonia or Platform Uno. I agree.
That's a great question. I do believe that any open-source project CAN survive forever. The question is whether the community will be investing time into continuing the development. As stated in the video, developers with existing knowledge can safely continue applying it. However, learning WPF today and starting new projects on it aren't the best choice, in my opinion. In the end, it all depends on your personal or your teams situation.
Thanks for reaching out. I could have put more time into researching alternatives. However, I didn't think of Avalonia because I haven't used it previously. I added a link to Avalonia to the video description. I'll also write a pinned comment mentioning it. 😉
In 2024 for windows only apps, WPF is still most mature and best choice. Other UI Frameworks like WinUI3 are not providing equivalent functionality yet. For small apps other solutions could be considered. Anyway we can see that other MS solutions than WPF just come and go over time. Migration to newer .NET is not a big deal.
I don't understand why there so many choices left open from Microsoft. I thought WinUI was the new technology to use, then they release MAUI and then they don't include it for linux while calling it cross platform 😅
WinUi is the native solution for Windows development. I understand you concerns regarding MAUI. I hope they will add Linux support in the future. Meanwhile, Avalonia and Platform Uno are great cross-platform options for .NET development.
I used C# for windows CE and Nokia 6600 and I enjoyed it. Then I switched to PHP. Now after 13 years of web development I decided to come back to desktop applications I really lost Microsoft environment changed a lot �� I don’t know which guy is a 99.999% cross platform and I don’t know why all this stuff and when use this when use the other What should I use to make modern data tables that talk to databases? Also i need CLI interface inside the GUI … Any propositions ?
There are many different technologies available. For desktop, I suggest looking into Platform Uno and Avalonia UI. For CLI, regular console apps with a few NuGet packages, such as those mentioned in the following video, is a great starting point. There are many options, educate yourself on what's available and choose what you feel like is a great fit for you. th-cam.com/video/dKBuvdGsYYc/w-d-xo.html
@@ClaudioBernasconi Awesome! By the way, when it comes to persistent storage, is there a solution for using a database in desktop applications without "requiring users" to install an RDBMS that uses a specific port? I'm referring to a storage system other than files, one that allows us to query data using SQL statements and handle table relations. Ideally, this should be deliverable as a single standard MSI or EXE program. The reason I'm hesitant to inconvenience users is that they might not be familiar with managing things like stopping services that use those ports or installing third-party software like MySQL and its dependencies. I'm curious how desktop application developers typically address this scenario and deliver standalone applications.
For windows desktop solutions I am using WPF in .NET 8, but problems I solve are bound to Windows. I would choose something else if I should target also mac, linux or android.
The irony is that Winforms will outlive WPF and most of its successors. My own view that making the interpretation of code dependent on external files is an unnecessary and error prone complication. Header files in C and C++ was a bad idea from day one and no language has used this approach since. Similarly defining used interfaces in XML requires close coordination between two completely different approaches. Pure code can be provably correct, that is, all pre and post conditions are satisfied. This is impossible with external XML files.
Great question! I need to educate myself more about WinUI. However, based on my current understanding, WinUI is Windows native, while WPF is .NET based. Of course, you can still use C# to develop WinUI, but you can also use C++. In the end, WPF is mature and stable, while WinUI seems to have open issues and is more in development. Interesting topic for a future video. 🙂
WinUI is a successor to WPF and UWP , and is Microsoft's new framework for modern Windows experiences - so Windows 10, 11 and later. Most recently Microsoft used it to build the new File Explorer in Windows with it; a sign that they are using their own frameworks in flagship product - Windows - a signal for developers for its maturity. However, it is Windows-only unless you use Uno Platform which bridges it to all iOS, Android, Web, Linux and MacOS and even iOT. Full disclosure, I am on Uno Platform team
I think WPF has become kinda Javascript. It's freedom itself since it doesn't enforce any UI framework. Yes there is a steep start-up curve because of no UI framework. And Avalonia is always readily available although there are some bugs and many differences.
better to redesign or extend GDI to do vector-based graphics rendering and layout that allows user interface elements to be arranged and positioned on the screen in a flexible and dynamic way and sit on DirectX and do GPU Hardware acceleration other wise wpf can be horror to use some times or even a project type like wpf and winforms that uses C# to position controls in a form and write the applications code like flutter/Dart framework
![โรงเรียนห้ามรัก โดนจับได้ตาย...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4u02Sbr556Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Besides Platform Uno, Avalonia (Avalonia UI & XPF) is also an option. I haven't previously used Avalonia myself and therefore didn't think of it while recording. I didn't want to exclude any product or favor one over another. Thanks for your understanding. 🙏
im very old man and old style. I dont know how to run xaml. I have spent 3 days just to make one button if its clicked its close the form. And.. failed 😅
I like Avalonia workflow, but found that the rendering was buggy, however I'm sure it will improve soon.
1. WPF's concept is very advanced, it proposed the MVVM pattern around 2008, which is still a popular design pattern today. Due to it's two-way data binding, MVVM became possible. 2. In China's IT labor market, WPF has suddenly become popular again in the past two years. people here consider although MAUI includes Windows, developers generally still use it as Xamarin.Forms, which means jsut for Android and iOS. Using MAUI for desktop Windows software feels awkward, while WPF is mature choice as the Windows desktop version of MAUI. 3. WPF is not dead. but not sure for Winforms I would say.
Thanks for your in-depth comment. As long as you're sure you'll only have Windows clients it is still a viable choice. 👍
In China, many companies are still using WinForm
Wpf not dead, but grandfather 😊
hhh，still some companies use MFC and winform
I can't understand how people can recommend MAUI, I never got a basic project to work with it, I just got lots of wasted hours and stress, and couldn't even compile
.NET MAUI isn't really ready for windows development, you can't really even create good mouse drags for creator applications in my experience, it's missing a lot of winui functionality.
and Win UI 3 just doesn't work at all for packages and release mode as it will just print out that the xaml dll is missing no matter what you do (issue ongoing for years)
All projects are not multi-platform. If developing for windows platform only then WPF is a very good choice in my opinion. Separating UI from application logic is easy in WPF and results in better overall application structure when done properly. MVVM is one choice, we use mostly similar "presenter/view" architecture with a cunning view factory, and the application layer is agnostic to whether or not an UI exists at all.
You're right. If Windows is the focus and you and your team have the knowledge and experience to build modern and maintainable applications with it, that's perfect! Good for you!
I think the alternatives, such as Avalonia and Platform Uno make it simpler for newcomers to start with and even though you might not need cross-platform know, it won't hurt if you get it for a future use case.
Again, great for you if WPF still works for you. I have used it for almost a decade and it solved many problems for our customers.
UWP (Universal Windows Platform) was also good, the UI was powerful (though not as powerful as WPF) and customizable, and modern-looking. The only problem was their stubbornness to force us to use their Microsoft Store, and sideloading was not straightforward. If UWP had an option to export a Windows 10 app to a single archive file that installs without the need of sideloading, and that you can simple upload to a website and let users download, it would have been the best way.
Key point for me is at 4:45 - developers do not want to tie their codebase or skillset to just one platform. This is why we have come up with Uno Platform, which extends WinUI ( as successor to WPF and UWP) to all mobile, web and non-Windows platforms.
Thanks, Shasha, for pointing out the reasoning behind Platform Uno. 👍
Why not? Who want to develop an ERP architecture to Linux or Mac OS? Windows is dominant OS. Also look at EA games' Frosbite game editor what uses WPF too. Who want to develop AAA games on Linux or Mac or web browser?
i dont tk so, acturely, cross-platform development situation is less then 20% in fact. if you are a win platform developer or linux platform, you dont need to learn cross-platform develop, its just wast time.
Definitely not dead but like you I would also consider MAUI for new pet projects. For professional or enterprise projects I would probably start with Blazor apps just for ease of maintenance.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree and tell you that you're not right. From Microsoft's perspective, it may be true that WPF can only be used for development on Windows. MS promotes its own MAUI project for the development of platform independent applications, which I personally consider to be wrong, as mixing UI description in HTML with C# tends to create a sloppy style.
However, there are several open source projects that allow the development of true multi-platform applications with C# and .NET Core and cover the entire range of possible target platforms. The UI is defined in XAML so that it is possible to port existing applications. I myself use Avalonia UI to create clients for Windows / Linux / macOS, although I actually lean more towards WASM, as these clients also run on mobile devices without any changes.
Thanks for your detailed comment. I think MAUI has it's place, but I currently also advocate more for Platform Uno or Avalonia for most cases. It certainly depends on the team and its experience and the existing code base. Thanks for adding some context here.
I really like your channel, but I don't agree to your conclusion that WPF shouldn't be used for new projects anymore. IMO there is no working alternative. Uno is not established yet, still too buggy. Blazor is absolutely great for Web Apps, but not good for desktop applications (e.g. for automation environments where machine parts shall be visualized). And MAUI is at the very beginning, not proven yet. And as we know Microsoft, it is not sure that MAUI will be cancelled from one day to the other.
And as long there is no GOOD alternative, WPF is the best way to go for desktop applications, even for new projects.
I love your insights, Otto. I definitely see a niche where WPF can still be a viable alternative. 😎
I personally wouldn't want to start a new, long-lasting project on WPF because I think the others will catch up and develop more over time. However, it all depends on skill levels, type of application, etc. If you think for your situation WPF is still the way to go, I absolutely agree with you.
It was also part of my video's message that I said you can continue to use WPF because Microsoft will continue supporting it. Just don't expect innovation or new features.
Again, thanks for watching and leaving your feedback. 🙏
Hello Otto! Good insight. Just for comparing technologies, as you seem to be comparing dev approaches for building desktop applications which will run on Windows. Uno Platform is not present on Windows. Uno can be thought of a bridge technology for WinUI-built apps & codebase to run on all other non-Windows desktops, mobile and Web. So, any Windows comparison should be made with WinUI, and other approaches you mention. I'm not sure when you tried Uno last, based on feedback from people like you, we've made it a lot easier to set up projects correctly as it has been hard to for some of our users to do with .NET previews, and Visual Studio previews. I'd drop a link in here but TH-cam tends to filter those - so - if you download or just update your Visual Studio Uno Platform extension you will get the new wizard-based project startup experience which will ensure you are starting on a solid ground. I'd also appreciate hearing any direct feedback at sasha at platform dot uno.
@@sashakrsmanovic9314 Thank you very much! It's one or two years, since I took a look on Uno. I'll check this again, but don't know when, due to lack of time. The time being I only have to deal with console programs ;-)
BTW: I also tried Avalonia at that time, which I liked very much too.
For personal use, or for my own projects, I clearly would take both in consideration. But I'd hesitate to tell my customers to use one of them for their new projects. Too often I've seen that good programming tools / languages / environments have been cancelled or haven't been supported any longer.
I know that this is not fair to all these great people who are spending their time and effort to bring these great tools forward. But that's life, and that's HARD. That's the reason we listen to HARD rock, SCNR.
The best situation is, if a company is starting some new project, if they really structure their code so that the GUI can be replaced which "less" effort, it that should become necessary. Then using Uno, Avalonia & Co. is a good option.
I'm starting out with c# so newbie here, however one question I have, How are desktop apps made? I looked at WinForms, but in terms of frontend design it looks very basic, and the next being WPF that gives the ability to make a good UI. I might have missed something from WinForms, but what else is out there in terms of creating an applications that allows us to create a modern frontend?
Great question! Regarding Desktop apps, I would suggest looking at Platform Uno and Avalonia UI. Those are two modern, cross-platform solutions. WPF still has its place, but I would not advise a newcomer to learn it today.
the big and huge (and thicc) advantage of WPF against WinForms is the hardware accelerated render. If you put a list of products with their low res images, the program probably will lag. If you want more control about the render of the controls WPF has a lot of potencial compared to WinForms, but as a newbie... is harder. But at least we have ChatGPT. A simple thing like change the row color of a gridview in WPF (their variant) based on a condition was so torture, but now you can get a lot of help with the AI.
You can take a look at Siemens TIA Portal to see how much you can customize WinForms. Though I'd rather call it an abuse of the framework and it is quite slow. Sadly the development started years before WPF was released so Siemens had to "reinvent WPF" inside WinForms.
Thank you so much, I've spent 20 days learning C# and i can use it to a good level, but i don't see many videos on how to build desktop programs or games with it. I think C# can be used as a language that can be usefull when you're using other technologies for specific program creations like game engines.
You can learn Unity or Godot for game development with C#. The good thing is there are so many different frameworks, tools, and platforms that we can use with C#.
Hi Claudio, thank for your input for whether to use WPF as of today. I'm trying to build a desktop application that runs on both MacOS and Windows. I'm primarily a .NET developer and just started looking into MacOS desktop app development and I don't have any MacOS app development experience at all. I got my hands dirty with WPF almost 12 years ago and for Windows Desktop development I agree WPF very mature, stable and can still find a lot of documentation on it (been a bit rusty so been looking at documentation again).
I looked into .NET MAUI for cross platform development and found the MS documentation for developing MacOS apps very lacking when it comes to customizing the menu bar. React Native is another option for me for cross platform development in saying that you still need to know how to bridge React Native (have done React Front End Web Development) with the native OS features for both MacOS and Windows.
I have a video where I show 9 options for desktop development on .NET. Maybe that's what you want to watch next? In your situation, I'd consider Platform Uno or Avalonia UI for your project. th-cam.com/video/ze8o-Qa3v7Y/w-d-xo.html
Can you make a follow up, showing Avalonia and mentioning Avalonia XPF with which you can run you WPF apps cross platform? You could also then mention WinUI there as well. (Also note MAUI does not support Linux)
I appreciate your comment. It seems like, besides learning about the current state, people want to see more content about alternatives. So, I will see how to approach the topic. I'm not an expert in Avalonia or Uno. However, I have used WPF for over 10 years, so I felt confident providing an update about its current state. 😎
So funny I'm using the power of WPF to do things it was not designed for. Here are a few examples:
1) Azure cloud function which uses WPF to allow user to position elements on a video, if a user resizes a rectangle, a call is sent to wpf to recalculate the x,y of other elements
2) Azure function to generate very nice looking pdfs for reporting in commercial real estate using Xaml-> XPS -> PDF
3) using wpf animations to run DMX lighting, hooking into the onchange events of x,y of a dot during animation. Sending this x,y as DMX to lighting fixture.. wpf is now running my nightclub lights
Damn, those are three crazy but fascinating use cases for using WPF! 💪 Thanks for sharing! 🙏
You recommend MAUI to large enterprise softwares like erps?
Great question. It depends on what your goals are. There is Platfom Uno, Avalonia, WPF, and .NET MAUI. It depends on the requirements and what you or your team are already familiar with at this point. .NET MAUI is an up and coming tech that is still changing a lot. If you want to bet on the future, go with .NET MAUI. If you want something more stable and also need desktop or other platforms besides mobile, check out the other platforms I mentioned above.
Why would a developer not targeting Windows only, when there's virtually no market for Linux desktop (no Linux user will pay you a dime) and Apple lags far behind in terms of market shares. (
Also Apple users have different expectations on what an app should look like and behave.
Thanks for your comment. It seems like you are working in an industry like business software where that observation might be true.
However, there are many use cases where companies build cross-platform apps and have success with it. Sometimes, a web app is what you need. Simple. Done.
Sometimes, you have requirements for a (maybe offline) desktop app. And sometimes, you need to support Mac users or Linux users because of whatever requirements. So what's right for many, isn't right for everyone. What is your preferred technology to build Windows desktop apps these days? Do you use WPF or what is you favorite choice?
I think it's one of the best solutions for Windows app development, doesn't it?
Or has something changed?
If you have the skillset and don't need cross-platform in the future, why not. However, what is holding you back from using Platform Uno or Avalonia in this case? 🙂
So for Windows UWP or WinUI is best.
There are multiple options. .NET MAUI or Platform Uno, or AvaloniaUI are all viable options too. There are so many great technologies. We have a choice. 🙂
Very interesting video (new sub!). As a WPF and Xamarin developer (among other stuff) that started developing about the same time as Claudio, I totally agree with Claudio, but I still have a question...
I know how to write both WPF with C# and XAML and Cocoa with Objective -C. Should I just write both versions or use NET Maui?
Welcome, and great question! I would rephrase that question from the perspective of the project, the team or the customer. Do you really want/need two different codebases? Would it be easier to use C# for the whole product? If you are completely on your own, you have a lot more freedom. But when working with others and for others, their view should also be taken into account when making such decisions. Maybe not the answer you were looking for but maybe it still helped you change the perspective and make a good decision.
I might be a WPF groupie - but given it was releaed in 2006 or so, its a near perfect framework.
It's definitely a great framework. There is nothing wrong with using it if you and your team are proficient in it and can build great solutions.
Sadly it doesn't work well with .NET Core. There is weird memory leak happening.
Judging by GitHub this is still pending issue.
😮
WPF and MVVM have never been popular with develoeprs and are a massively unnecessary complication of something that shouldn't be so hard. There is a reason why more winform apps are still created today than WPF (microsoft stats from telemetry).
Thanks for sharing your views and experience. I have seen many companies making UI-related requirements that weren't able to fulfil with WinForms. Therefore WPF was often the choice, which allowed developers to provide a customized user interface. Of course, if you can use WinForms, nothing speaks against it.
When I started a netmaui project and the first thing I had to do, was to disable universal apps signing, it was clear to me, that it will be slow on Windows. I need speed for my apps!
I think the strength of .NET MAUI is mobile apps. Sure you can build for desktop as well, but if your focus is Windows, there are other technologies, such as Avalonia or Platform Uno. I agree.
Can WPF survive for another 20 Years ?
That's a great question. I do believe that any open-source project CAN survive forever. The question is whether the community will be investing time into continuing the development. As stated in the video, developers with existing knowledge can safely continue applying it. However, learning WPF today and starting new projects on it aren't the best choice, in my opinion. In the end, it all depends on your personal or your teams situation.
How could you not mention Avalonia UI or Avalonia XPF? Seems a huge oversight...
Thanks for reaching out. I could have put more time into researching alternatives. However, I didn't think of Avalonia because I haven't used it previously. I added a link to Avalonia to the video description. I'll also write a pinned comment mentioning it. 😉
In 2024 for windows only apps, WPF is still most mature and best choice. Other UI Frameworks like WinUI3 are not providing equivalent functionality yet. For small apps other solutions could be considered. Anyway we can see that other MS solutions than WPF just come and go over time. Migration to newer .NET is not a big deal.
I don't understand why there so many choices left open from Microsoft. I thought WinUI was the new technology to use, then they release MAUI and then they don't include it for linux while calling it cross platform 😅
WinUi is the native solution for Windows development. I understand you concerns regarding MAUI. I hope they will add Linux support in the future. Meanwhile, Avalonia and Platform Uno are great cross-platform options for .NET development.
I used C# for windows CE and Nokia 6600 and I enjoyed it. Then I switched to PHP. Now after 13 years of web development I decided to come back to desktop applications I really lost Microsoft environment changed a lot �� I don’t know which guy is a 99.999% cross platform and I don’t know why all this stuff and when use this when use the other
What should I use to make modern data tables that talk to databases?
Also i need CLI interface inside the GUI …
Any propositions ?
There are many different technologies available. For desktop, I suggest looking into Platform Uno and Avalonia UI. For CLI, regular console apps with a few NuGet packages, such as those mentioned in the following video, is a great starting point. There are many options, educate yourself on what's available and choose what you feel like is a great fit for you. th-cam.com/video/dKBuvdGsYYc/w-d-xo.html
@@ClaudioBernasconi Awesome! By the way, when it comes to persistent storage, is there a solution for using a database in desktop applications without "requiring users" to install an RDBMS that uses a specific port? I'm referring to a storage system other than files, one that allows us to query data using SQL statements and handle table relations. Ideally, this should be deliverable as a single standard MSI or EXE program. The reason I'm hesitant to inconvenience users is that they might not be familiar with managing things like stopping services that use those ports or installing third-party software like MySQL and its dependencies. I'm curious how desktop application developers typically address this scenario and deliver standalone applications.
Do you still use WPF? What framework version are you using? .NET / .NET Framework? If you migrated: What is your new solution?
If you are writing a desktop based application, I would go with Blazor or a Javascript UI like Electron or Chromium that can run on the desktop.
@@debtpeon If I had to use Electron for anything, I'd rather kill myself.
For windows desktop solutions I am using WPF in .NET 8, but problems I solve are bound to Windows. I would choose something else if I should target also mac, linux or android.
WPF is very matured and great for windows desktop apps. Avalonia is now the cross-platform WPF
Avalonia is definitely a viable option today.
The irony is that Winforms will outlive WPF and most of its successors. My own view that making the interpretation of code dependent on external files is an unnecessary and error prone complication. Header files in C and C++ was a bad idea from day one and no language has used this approach since. Similarly defining used interfaces in XML requires close coordination between two completely different approaches. Pure code can be provably correct, that is, all pre and post conditions are satisfied. This is impossible with external XML files.
I'll just stick with WPF for now. Avalonia UI looks very promising though :-) And way less messy than MS' countless desktop development frameworks.
I haven't tried Avalonia si far. What .NET version are you using? .NET Framework or one of the latest .NET releases?
Hola CLaudio me encanto tu video, que oiesas de AVALONIA UI me gustaria saber tu opinion
Gracias. Avalonia es una excelente opción de sucesor para los desarrolladores de .NET con experiencia en WPF u otro tipo de XAML.
Where does WinUI fit in ?
Great question! I need to educate myself more about WinUI. However, based on my current understanding, WinUI is Windows native, while WPF is .NET based. Of course, you can still use C# to develop WinUI, but you can also use C++. In the end, WPF is mature and stable, while WinUI seems to have open issues and is more in development. Interesting topic for a future video. 🙂
WinUI is a successor to WPF and UWP , and is Microsoft's new framework for modern Windows experiences - so Windows 10, 11 and later. Most recently Microsoft used it to build the new File Explorer in Windows with it; a sign that they are using their own frameworks in flagship product - Windows - a signal for developers for its maturity. However, it is Windows-only unless you use Uno Platform which bridges it to all iOS, Android, Web, Linux and MacOS and even iOT. Full disclosure, I am on Uno Platform team
@@sashakrsmanovic9314 Thanks for the detailed explanation, Sasha!
What about WebUI 3? It's XAML based!
I'd say that's also a valid choice.
thanks to your information!
You are welcome!
Hey Guy, I dont care much about programming, but really enjoyed the content!
Thank you! 😎
I think WPF has become kinda Javascript. It's freedom itself since it doesn't enforce any UI framework. Yes there is a steep start-up curve because of no UI framework. And Avalonia is always readily available although there are some bugs and many differences.
better to redesign or extend GDI to do vector-based graphics rendering and layout that allows user interface elements to be arranged and positioned on the screen in a flexible and dynamic way and sit on DirectX and do GPU Hardware acceleration other wise wpf can be horror to use some times or even a project type like wpf and winforms that uses C# to position controls in a form and write the applications code like flutter/Dart framework
WPF is long dead. Don't need a 7:04 video to affirm that.
F@*k Mac and Linux, Starting WPF
not remotely dead
Yes, I agree.
WinUI
For Windows-only scenarios, WinUI is definitely a great option.
Now I am working in avalonia in a project I recommend it
Thanks for the recommendation! 🙂👍