I work with WinForms a lot and it's got some really heavy flaws: * It was never made with UI scaling in mind, so all attempts to deal with that are non-perfect. * It's layout system is designed around bounding boxes which severely limits what can be done visually in terms of transparency, positioning, overlap etc. The event driven architecture does not fit well with animations and it's software rendered. So, why is it still great? * it is the UI with the smallest overhead because it's just wrapper classes around windows elements. * it's visual simplicity around bounding boxes makes it totally fine to be software rendered * it's software rendered which means it is so easy to custom draw controls and content and it has no complications from remote access. * it's all C#, no xml no xaml, no javascript, no html, no css required to design a ui. Winforms is still heavily used in industrial automation because practical application design is constrained in the use of colors (red =error, yellow=warning, green = fine, white|black|grey = neutral) and no one gives a shit about the beauty of a liquid-like mouseover on a beautiful button over an acrylic glass background. WPF never really got to replace WinForms there because the separation of roles (Coders code, designers design XAML) does not exist in that space and because of its simplicity, WinForms has more components available than WPF. Everything after WPF could not replace WinForms because all the ways to design Windows-APPs creates apps that behave like apps in an app container with minimized access to native resources and minimal control over their own state which makes it impossible to use for an industrial application. Winforms is and will probably stay the workhorse for a lot of unsexy but useful applications that will never shine on any stage.
@@FranciscoFaria888 Yeah you're right, it's just that it's hideous and Windows only. Didn't want to migrate my clunky desktop projects and needed cross-platform.
Thanks for the video. I would recommend adding some sort of separator between video sections for your next video, as to clearly tell the user you will be switching to another UI system
Thanks for this overview! In the past I have worked with Delphi, WinForms (Visual Basic and C#), WPF and Xamarin Forms. In a even more distant past with Access Forms. I lost track of desktop development since I work more with web apps and services now. What I always miss in a discussion about native Windows apps is how deployment is organized, especially auto updating. I have build msi files but never been part of a project where an app is semi-automatically distributed over the internet to many (known) end users. What would you suggest? To name some possible options: Chocolatey, Intune, WinGet, MS Store, Ansible, Squirrel, Omaha. And which of the app platforms you mentioned are compatible with these distribution channels? That would be a very interesting overview.
That's an interesting topic. Noted for future videos. I know that ClickOnce deployment worked well for some time, but I don't know if that is still the case. I would definitely look into what's currently used within the industry before making a decision. Again, it's an interesting topic to explore, and I won't make any suggestions before I educate myself on the topic. Thanks for your understanding.
for a simple utilities which doesn't require too much gui and dont need crossplatform, winforms is the best. in all other tech its take 5x time to build. and even then you get a large exe size (and sometimes a lot of files) and a lot of deps in some cases.
Yes, WinForms is still a great solution for quickly building Windows desktop applications. Great thing WinForms runs with the latest .NET version. I have had issues with deployment (updating the application on all devices etc.) in the past. Therefore, I now usually use Blazor for small tools which don't require native APIs.
Great collection. What is your take on Blazor PWA? I'm a web developer, so I don't have much exposure to the desktop field, but I'm curious what the current opinion on desktop PWAs is?
Great question! 🤔 I haven't worked with PWAs in production. I believe they have their place but I don't know what their current state is. For me, it often makes sense to have a native (desktop) app or a regular web app (Blazor). PWA adds optional functionality but I wouldn't bet on users' having all those features enabled in all browsers.
Maui is definitely not production ready for real world applications that may get more complex than the samples from Microsoft. I’ve been using it since it’s GA Release back 2022 and I’ve been reporting since that day multiple issues. I still got hope but it’s hard to believe this should be used in real world projects at this stage of the framework.
Thanks for sharing your real-world experience. Let's hope it will change in the future. I know many talented developers are working on resolving the most important issues right now.
I agree with you 100%. I made the mistake of developing a production app with MAUI. At first it worked well, but it has not scaled well, and has so many framework level errors that have introduced very obscure, and almost impossible to debug problems.
@whatinthebloodyhell I haven't MAUI in maybe 2 months, I'll have to try with the more recent release. One problem is there's some issues that occur because the project was started with an older version. Mostly got those issues cleaned up but overall it's been a painful process the past year and a half
Solid overview, I appreciate this a lot! I have been attached to using HTML/CSS for front-end but with my choice to code primarily in C# it is looking like Blazor Hybrid MAUI is not ready and that I need to go with XAML , either Avalonia UI or Platform Uno. I appreciate your link to the article as well! About to go read it.
Glad it was helpful! Avalonia UI and Platform Uno are great choices! With Platform Uno you can now also define your UIs with C# markup instead of XAML. You can also look into Blazor Hybrid with WPF. With this combination, you have a solid technology (WPF), and the modern HTML/CSS UI framework with Blazor. I haven't tried this combination, but I know that it's possible to use it like that. So many choices - I hope you'll be able to find what works best for you.
Thank you very much for the video, very very good ;) I would like to ask you, I am a visual basic programmer and I was asked to create a stock management and billing program for the desktop but that can be used from the cell phone. What would be the best Avalonia platform? Or which one do you think is the most appropriate? Kind regards.
Thank you very much for your prompt response ^_^ I have had good comments about Blazor, it would be something interesting to investigate. I consult you again. Can Blazor use the full potential of WPF to make a desktop application? Or what would be the essential basis for choosing it. Thanks for your time. Kind regards.@@ClaudioBernasconi
What is great with Uno is that it is a cross-platform port of WinUI that fills important gaps for the Windows-only technology. Now being able to target other platforms, in particular mobile, with one app platform.
I am interested in Uno or Avalonia because I have to develop applications for embedded devices running a Linux OS (Yocto TorizonOS). Uno seems to work pretty well on an arm64 bits processor with a small touchscreen 7''.
It worth to mention that Lunacy is powered by Avalonia ! Lunacy is Figma-like graphic design software, which can be run fluently on Avalonia on a Raspberry PI machine! This shows how good performance optimization of Avalonia is against WPF, thanks to the Skia. Chrome, Firefox and more are powered by Skia! AvaloniaUI + Meadow seems a good choice combination for IoT client project runs on embeded Linux device! Hardware grab money faster than software 😃
Thanks for sharing your experience and this interesting case study with us! I don't have much experience with Avalonia UI but I plan to change that in the future.
![Is WPF Dead? - The Current State of WPF [2023]](/img/n.gif)
I work with WinForms a lot and it's got some really heavy flaws:
* It was never made with UI scaling in mind, so all attempts to deal with that are non-perfect.
* It's layout system is designed around bounding boxes which severely limits what can be done visually in terms of transparency, positioning, overlap etc. The event driven architecture does not fit well with animations and it's software rendered.
So, why is it still great?
* it is the UI with the smallest overhead because it's just wrapper classes around windows elements.
* it's visual simplicity around bounding boxes makes it totally fine to be software rendered
* it's software rendered which means it is so easy to custom draw controls and content and it has no complications from remote access.
* it's all C#, no xml no xaml, no javascript, no html, no css required to design a ui.
Winforms is still heavily used in industrial automation because practical application design is constrained in the use of colors (red =error, yellow=warning, green = fine, white|black|grey = neutral) and no one gives a shit about the beauty of a liquid-like mouseover on a beautiful button over an acrylic glass background. WPF never really got to replace WinForms there because the separation of roles (Coders code, designers design XAML) does not exist in that space and because of its simplicity, WinForms has more components available than WPF.
Everything after WPF could not replace WinForms because all the ways to design Windows-APPs creates apps that behave like apps in an app container with minimized access to native resources and minimal control over their own state which makes it impossible to use for an industrial application.
Winforms is and will probably stay the workhorse for a lot of unsexy but useful applications that will never shine on any stage.
I love your detailed comment and all your explanations! What a piece. Happy to pin this answer!
Winforms is still king. I have used WPF, Avalonia, MAUI, UWP, above all i choose Winforms
The worst thing about Winforms is that it's not cross-platform. The next worse thing is it's stuck at 4.8.
Not viable for future proofing a product.
@@nickbarton3191 What you mean it's stuck in 4.8? It available in .net core since version 3.0. And it's open source.
@@FranciscoFaria888 Yeah you're right, it's just that it's hideous and Windows only. Didn't want to migrate my clunky desktop projects and needed cross-platform.
Thanks for the video. I would recommend adding some sort of separator between video sections for your next video, as to clearly tell the user you will be switching to another UI system
Great suggestion! I will keep it in mind for my next video with this style. Thanks for watching.
Excelent video, I was searching for a good UI for Linux and Windows apps, Thanks!
avalonia ui
Thanks for this overview!
In the past I have worked with Delphi, WinForms (Visual Basic and C#), WPF and Xamarin Forms. In a even more distant past with Access Forms.
I lost track of desktop development since I work more with web apps and services now. What I always miss in a discussion about native Windows apps is how deployment is organized, especially auto updating. I have build msi files but never been part of a project where an app is semi-automatically distributed over the internet to many (known) end users. What would you suggest? To name some possible options: Chocolatey, Intune, WinGet, MS Store, Ansible, Squirrel, Omaha. And which of the app platforms you mentioned are compatible with these distribution channels? That would be a very interesting overview.
That's an interesting topic. Noted for future videos. I know that ClickOnce deployment worked well for some time, but I don't know if that is still the case. I would definitely look into what's currently used within the industry before making a decision. Again, it's an interesting topic to explore, and I won't make any suggestions before I educate myself on the topic. Thanks for your understanding.
@@ClaudioBernasconi is tried MSIX lately. It looks a container like way of deploying apps. It is not widely used, even not by Mircosoft itself.
What is your preferred UI Framework for .NET desktop application development? 🤔
Blazor hybrid
Blazor Hybrid
I really like Avalonia 😊
WinUi 3
imgui
for a simple utilities which doesn't require too much gui and dont need crossplatform, winforms is the best. in all other tech its take 5x time to build. and even then you get a large exe size (and sometimes a lot of files) and a lot of deps in some cases.
Yes, WinForms is still a great solution for quickly building Windows desktop applications. Great thing WinForms runs with the latest .NET version. I have had issues with deployment (updating the application on all devices etc.) in the past. Therefore, I now usually use Blazor for small tools which don't require native APIs.
Great collection. What is your take on Blazor PWA? I'm a web developer, so I don't have much exposure to the desktop field, but I'm curious what the current opinion on desktop PWAs is?
Great question! 🤔 I haven't worked with PWAs in production. I believe they have their place but I don't know what their current state is. For me, it often makes sense to have a native (desktop) app or a regular web app (Blazor). PWA adds optional functionality but I wouldn't bet on users' having all those features enabled in all browsers.
Maui is definitely not production ready for real world applications that may get more complex than the samples from Microsoft. I’ve been using it since it’s GA Release back 2022 and I’ve been reporting since that day multiple issues. I still got hope but it’s hard to believe this should be used in real world projects at this stage of the framework.
Thanks for sharing your real-world experience. Let's hope it will change in the future. I know many talented developers are working on resolving the most important issues right now.
I agree with you 100%. I made the mistake of developing a production app with MAUI. At first it worked well, but it has not scaled well, and has so many framework level errors that have introduced very obscure, and almost impossible to debug problems.
I agree 100% too MAUI needs more work because of its many issues and bugs it’s not ready and should be developed more by Microsoft
MAUI did improve a lot in recent releases though.
@whatinthebloodyhell I haven't MAUI in maybe 2 months, I'll have to try with the more recent release. One problem is there's some issues that occur because the project was started with an older version. Mostly got those issues cleaned up but overall it's been a painful process the past year and a half
Very informative, thank you! Can you use these with Windows Powershell, since it is technically based on .NET?
I don't know about that, I'm sorry. Try it and let us know if it worked. 😉
Excellent video. Your video should be viewed for anyone who wants to get into Computer Science!!! The future is !!!!
Solid overview, I appreciate this a lot! I have been attached to using HTML/CSS for front-end but with my choice to code primarily in C# it is looking like Blazor Hybrid MAUI is not ready and that I need to go with XAML , either Avalonia UI or Platform Uno. I appreciate your link to the article as well! About to go read it.
Glad it was helpful! Avalonia UI and Platform Uno are great choices! With Platform Uno you can now also define your UIs with C# markup instead of XAML. You can also look into Blazor Hybrid with WPF. With this combination, you have a solid technology (WPF), and the modern HTML/CSS UI framework with Blazor. I haven't tried this combination, but I know that it's possible to use it like that. So many choices - I hope you'll be able to find what works best for you.
Thank you for these great video and details
Thank you very much for the video, very very good ;) I would like to ask you, I am a visual basic programmer and I was asked to create a stock management and billing program for the desktop but that can be used from the cell phone. What would be the best Avalonia platform? Or which one do you think is the most appropriate? Kind regards.
@@Gusmdq33 thanks. Maybe Avalonia or Platform Uno. Blazor Hybrid is also an option if you prefer HTML and CSS over XAML.
Thank you very much for your prompt response ^_^ I have had good comments about Blazor, it would be something interesting to investigate. I consult you again. Can Blazor use the full potential of WPF to make a desktop application? Or what would be the essential basis for choosing it. Thanks for your time. Kind regards.@@ClaudioBernasconi
What is great with Uno is that it is a cross-platform port of WinUI that fills important gaps for the Windows-only technology. Now being able to target other platforms, in particular mobile, with one app platform.
Great to hear it works for you. Thanks for sharing your experience with the community.
Which I use Avalonia Or Uno ? Beginner ( not recommend easy - i only focusing in future also to get profit and stable on one )
Would love to see you do some WinUI3 tutorials.
It is not on top of my list right now, but we'll see. Thanks for your recommendation.
I am interested in Uno or Avalonia because I have to develop applications for embedded devices running a Linux OS (Yocto TorizonOS). Uno seems to work pretty well on an arm64 bits processor with a small touchscreen 7''.
Very informative, thanks!
Thanks for letting me know. 🙂
@@ClaudioBernasconi No worries!
It worth to mention that Lunacy is powered by Avalonia ! Lunacy is Figma-like graphic design software, which can be run fluently on Avalonia on a Raspberry PI machine! This shows how good performance optimization of Avalonia is against WPF, thanks to the Skia. Chrome, Firefox and more are powered by Skia! AvaloniaUI + Meadow seems a good choice combination for IoT client project runs on embeded Linux device! Hardware grab money faster than software 😃
Thanks for sharing your experience and this interesting case study with us! I don't have much experience with Avalonia UI but I plan to change that in the future.
Avalonia is really nice.
No sample applications? Why this video exists?
I have mostly used winforms
WinForms has been great and still does it's job in many cases. 👍
part_1
But how about using
part_2
.NET
part_3
for native
part_4
Android development?
part_5
If I'm not mistaken
part_6
MAUI is a successor of Xamarin Forms, not Xamarin Native.
Not too bad😊
You too, my friend!
What a ZOMBIE Accent. DUDE! you forgot to BLINK😂
I appreciate your feedback. 😉
Agree MAUI is not production ready. Blazor is good. Avalonia UI is good.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Test.