Doctor Who: The History of The Master
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2023
- The Master is one of The Doctor's most iconic enemies, but you'd be surprised to know there's a lot more incarnations than you might have originally believed...
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#DoctorWho #TheMaster #Timeline - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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The Ainley Master getting a new regeneration cycle has a potentially simple explanation that I'm surprised to see writers haven't used. In 'The Five Doctors', the Time Lords unambiguously offer him a new cycle if he helps them. He does exactly what they ask of him, and it's probably in their best interests to hold up their end of the deal (especially given what he almost did to Gallifrey during 'The Deadly Assasin'). So, as of 'The Five Doctors', I think it's reasonable to think that the Master becomes a full Time Lord again and the first of a new cycle, no longer rattling around in a failing Trakenite body.
And, it doesn't make sense when the 11th Doctor reacts so shocked when he's given new regenerations considering it's not that big of a deal for Time Lords
@@SamuelBlack84 I'd disagree that a new cycle is not a big deal - it's established in 'The Deadly Assassin' that regenerating more than twelve times is thought to be impossible, and in 'The Five Doctors', the offer to the Master is under exceptional circumstances. Eleven's shock, I think, also makes sense given that he had been on Trenzalore for centuries with no contact from Gallifrey, and so no reason to think he'd be able to break the rules.
That said, it's possible that new cycles have been explored in expanded media, and perhaps it's more common than I thought. I do also think that retconning Eleven to be the final incarnation was too sudden, and at least should have been teased earlier. But I think his reaction to the new cycle is understandable.
Really enjoying these alternative styles of Who videos applying your style of reviewing to a sort of History of like video. It’s great.
I have the idea for the show: a supporting character that is revealed to be a much earlier incarnation of the Master. Except he doesn't go by that name as this is the Master when he was a suave anti-hero and not a villain. It would be a fresh twist on the tired Master reveal because it exploits time travel for anachronistic meetings, it would give us a dynamic between the Doctor and the Master we've never seen and add another layer of tragedy. We would finally meet a (relatively) good version of the Master who didn't die before finishing their redemption arc or wasn't the result of amnesia, which would make it all the more tragic that the Doctor knows he has to eventually embrace evil to keep the timeline in check
Harbo's journey into becoming whoculture continues.
Are you trying to insult Harbo?😂💚🔷🔷🔷🔷
He's regenerated far beyond that
Is this bad? Guessing yes? But I like WhoCulture I just find the whole “in the words of River Song, goodbye sweetie” to be super cringey and not what River was famous for saying anyway… otherwise they’re fine IMO.
Bruh
If Whoculture did a video on this they'd only include onscreen stuff from the revival and maybe one or two stories from classic.
My favorite incarnation of the Master is the War Master. Personally, I enjoy The Master more when he's not a completely unhinged psychopath, but rather a cunning and manipulative schemer. The War Master is the epitome of that. He manipulates everyone around him and doesn't reveal his true intentions until the very last moment. He can appear to be a kind old grandpa one second, then murder you in cold blood the next if it suits his plans. And Sir Derek Jacobi's performance is out of this world. Seriously, if you're reading this and haven't listened to The War Master Big Finish stories, do yourself a favor and do it. You won't regret it.
Now The Master is a gold tooth
I was just bout to say that: and then they were a tooth 🤣
The "Reborn Master" actually got me with his "Hello, YOU...." when he meets the Seventh Doctor. Dominion was so good.
Sims was originally my favourite, but the more I think about it, Missy and the War Master are the best!
RIP to the last of Harbo's sanity
Dude this is fantastic. The amount of work this must have taken. Thank you so much for doing this. As a passionate but confused fan this is super helpful!!
I know everyone hates the Timeless Child.
But I always felt it would have made more sense for them to be the Master.
Finding out the Timelords let him just, deteriorate, and that they took away his ability to basically live forever is a lot better motive to turn crazy in the latest master, instead of "They took it from you doctor!"
Literally. I feel like a lot more people would be okay with that if it was the Master.
It makes sense from the Master's point of view and the time lords. It also makes sense why he'd say it was the doctor to begin with.
Cause if you found out you were Jesus, you'd probably deny it at first.
I think if they made The Master the Timeless Child that would probably be one of the nosy interesting things they would have done with the Character since his debut.
I kinda hope this does happen in the future, cause I'd love for them to explore who The Master is knowing that he is actually special.
I really hope RTD fixes that and says the Master lied to the Doctor because he was simply projecting.
@@shmikex Now _that_ would make a whole lot of sense! It'd go a long way to fixing the mess that Chibnall created.
I like the whole timeless child , I think it just opens up the universe so much more. The master would have worked too but obviously it was more personal for chibs due to being adopted.
Yup.
I think the War Chief works as the Master as one his appearance and personality works so well. Also in an audio it’s implied that the Master was planning events that would lead to “The War Games”.
I 100% agree with you about the Meddling Monk though. The Master and the Monk are absolutely without a single doubt two different characters.
While it’s ambiguous with the War Chief.
The Master is about conquering the universe and surviving.
The Meddling Monk is more of a prankster who messes with history not for power but seemingly for his own amusement and to see the outcome.
The Rani is a scientist who’s not after any kind of power. She’s only interested in her inhumane experiments. She’s like the Poison Ivy of Doctor Who.
The Master, Monk, and Rani all have distinct personalities, desires, and goals.
I hate how the spy master ruined missy’s entire ark. I like to think he came after saxon but before missy
Ive always thought it would be cool to have a spinoff that's the master. Just Doctor Who, but in reverse lol.
There's rumors we're getting a villain spin off showing what plans they're up to when the Doctor isn't around.
9:00 Dust Breeding, the first Big Finish audio feautring the Master, established that Scream (the painting) is a life energy sucking alien that killed the Tremas body.
Behind the scenes, this was a small revenge against Anthony Ainley for refusing to come back to the role lol.
Remembering the pain and mental breakdown of trying to categorise this timeline on Discord during the conversation...
me coming here to see if ALL the Master are brought up. The name Koschei being used.....ok, this guy may know what he's talking about. 🖤🖤
To think the addition to this video is: “he ended up playing a game with the toy maker and got stuck in a tooth….”
In the licensed but non-canon Doctor Who tabletop RPG that FASA published in 1985, the numismaton gas on Sarn in "Planet of Fire" rejuvenated the Master and gave him a new regeneration cycle before the flames killed him. This triggered a regeneration, which in turn activated a device the Master carried that transported him to a hidden base he had established on a planetoid that was trapped in a rift outside time.
Personally, I think the best Masters are the ones that are completely insane and unhinged.
(hence why my absolute favourite is Sacha Dawahn)
I feel like Missy was more unhinged, as Sacha's Master just seems more angry than anything. Missy kills _anyone,_ even those she could otherwise use to her advantage, whereas Sacha just kills people who annoy him. Whilst Sacha _is_ more trigger-happy, Missy is _far_ more cunning and sadistic, capable of befriending people _just_ to make her betrayal more hurtful.
Mostly good, but a few notes:
1 - In the story Keeper of Traken, and every 5th Doctor story following, Nyssa's father Tremas, has his name spoken as "Tree-mas" not "Trem-us."
2 - First Frontier doesn't mess anything up, it fits PERFECTLY where it does, the Tzun are masters at their genetic craft and give him a new cycle of lives. I don't think it is specified how many, but it is some, which helps to account for Ace shooting him and where you say he stole more bodies, I've always seen these bodies that revert to "Crispy" as being a result of the Tzun experts not being experts with Time Lord physiognomy as much as they thought they could be.
3 - Nothing says Missy comes directly after the Sim master, and I think the persona of the Sasha Master fits better after him and before Missy, making Missy's eventual turn to good make more sense because she killed her own people, can't even tell this earlier Doctor about it, and finally discovers guilt. They finally have something they've done that might be worthy of guilt in their twisted sense of morality = genocide of one's own kind (including whatever family?).
And 4 - small point, but I admire your ability to recount anything to do with the Timeless Child and not throw up in your mouth a little bit, good job!
I thought that other offscreen incarnation was explicitly written as a bridge between Saxon and Missy. I much prefer the idea that Missy is after Sascha though and hope they retcon it to be true. No reason we can't have more intermediate Masters. Missy hardly let on what she knew anyway.
@@JOCoStudio1 I think also it was just nice to for once see the Master have some actual character development, a different emotion other than just the 2 or 3 that, they'd well... Mastered. Sascha Master is such a 180 I had whiplash, and an audible groan of "oh, we're back to them being Snidley Whiplash again... lovely."
Sacha being after Missy makes perfect sense and I think Power of the Doctor makes that clear as this is a Master who LOATHES himself and wants to be everything the Doctor is. She's loved, he isn't. She has friends, he doesn't. She's everything he's not and that kills him inside, as he says "Don't let me go back to being me" so i think a part of Missy is still in there deep down.
@@friendlyotaku9525 TBH I haven't watched that episode. I quit after Timeless Child. Now that RTD2 is on the way I will watch all I missed, maybe in October, I just was so mad I had to let the show go for a few years and just focus on Big Finish instead. So I haven't seen that episode, but what you describe could contribute to who Missy is too, if in her past.
@@R_SENAL oh it's a great episode imo, a real love letter to Doctor Who! You have plenty of time before November to catch up and who knows, you might be surprised by what you find!
I wish Alex McQueen's Master met Capaldi's Doctor.
Loved this video Favourite Master was Roger Delgado followed by Anthony Ainley
ill always believe that missy came after the spy master. idc about the audios, its ambiguous in the show😭
"I've said 'master' more than a white girl on Tinder' came out of nowhere and had me dead lmao 💀😂
My favourite incarnation is probably Missy, I feel like her and the doctor were great characters played by fantastic actors that were just sorta let down by the episode writing of that time.
Why am i laughing when i imagine missy casually r7nning over Dani...... 😢
Master Thief and Lesser Evils seem to give a pretty definitive account of the Delgado Master's regeneration
Great video
The biggest problem with the War Master meeting any of the previous versions of the Doctor before he met with 10. Well, wouldn't 10 recognise the War Master?
FYI, the Doctor had TERRIBLE marks in school. Not sure where you got the info otherwise (maybe some vague expanded universe PROSE), but the Master was the one who did well (but got in trouble a lot) while the Doctor was-as stated by Romana-"scraping through with 51% at the second attempt."
You forgot to mention, that the First Doctor recognized the Inventor Master when they met on Destination. Meaning, that in the BF timeline, when the Doctor left Gallifrey, the Master already had that face and a title.
Also, 9:15 - wasn't his body "reconstructed"? I thought that the Tzun Nanites cleared his body off the Trakenite Genes and the Cheetah Virus. Although, I agree, it is unknown how these gave him a whole new regeneration
I mean, did he recognize that specific incarnation
Because he can recognize the master in any incarnation unless the master is intentionally hiding
I can be wrong but wasn't the alicent field first used by the valeyard? or was they not named until latter?
There is also the War King from the EDA's/Infinitity Doctors and Faction Paradox. That one actually gets a couple depictions in the Miranda comics.
17:47 to me Mussy is my favorite master :D she was cute and scary and theatrical :D wand had a sonic/laser umbrella. What not to love :D
5:38 sounds an awful lot like The Hood when you put it like that
As of right know, December 11 2023, The Master has 4 more regenerations & The Doctor has 8.
No?
Well we actually don't know how many the doctor has
Okay, I’m wrong about The Master since they said in this video that as of now they’re on their Third regeneration cycle, but I’m pretty sure The Doctor still has 8. Considering we don’t know if The Doctor has infinite regenerations or the more likely thing that they were locked into a 12 regeneration cycle like all other Time Lords (How would the Time Lords that gave 11 the new cycle even know about TC?).
Continuing from that, the regenerations used are 11 to 12, 12 to 13, but not 13 to The Master since it was said they “undid” the regeneration, 13 to 14, and 14 to 14/15. Which adds up to 4 used regenerations and 8 yet unused.
i just went on this tangent a few weeks ago! many many wiki rabbit holes... thank you for summing it all up so well!
This doesn't even go into how the Dhawan Master's existence is a literal paradox that would not only undo Missy's existence but therefore undo everything since Seires 7 Part 1.
As the Dhawan Master says that he went into "Galifrey's Bubble Universe", which indicates that when he found the truth of the Timeless Child and therefore when he destroyed Galifrey it was BEFORE it returned to the prime universe.
(Here's the actual quote, Spyfall Part 2: The Scene with The master and The Doctor on the Eiffel Tower
"I took a trip home, to Gallifrey, hiding in its little bubble universe. Not sure how to describe what I found. Pulverized? Burned? Nuked? All of the above. Someone destroyed it. Our home. Razed to the ground. Everyone killed. Everything burned")
That would cause a massive paradox which in the best scenario on first blush would result in the Series 9 finale not happening...only until you consider without Series 9's Finale happening Series 10 can't happen therefore Missy and the Doctor wouldn't end up on the Mondasian ship in Series 10 becuase The Doctor would be traveling with Clara still and not Bill/Nardole and Missy.
And because of Series 10's finale not happening because Galifrey got destroyed before Hell Bent could happen, that means no Missy to set up 11 and Clara's timeline to meet and become Companions, therefore No Clara time remannts to get involved in The Snowmen and even if The doctor made it out of that situation, the odds of surving The Great Intelligence's plan in The Name of The Doctor are scant.
And don't get me started on how The Day of The Doctor's emotional resolution wouldn't occur without Clara.
Even if you say "The Moment made The Doctor and Clara's companionship a fixed point because Clara was a major part in ending the Time War the right way". And Moment-power allows time to not collapse on a fixed point being violated, that still means Series 8-10 wouldn't happen, which still leads to a massive paradox.
Honestly should bring this up when you get to Spyfall XD
Honestly that is the main reason i want RTD to sort of use The Flux's destablization of reality to act as a "The 13th Doctor's run happened differently to the greater universe, the only effects remainng being the existence of the 14th Doctor and whatnot, the rest of The Flux and other paradoxes being corrected by the Time-Goddess thing"
No it wouldn't, Hell Bent happened, Series 10 happened.
@@friendlyotaku9525
You don't get my point.
I'm saying that if the order of events The Master says in Spyfall Part 2 is true, then Series 9/10 at least couldn't happen because Gallifrey would be destroyed before it returned to the universe for the Council to hide it at the end of time.
Therefore no Galifrey for The Doctor to get to "the long way around' and no Galifrey to make a deal with "Me" to give them the quantum shade as part of a big plan to get The Doctor back to Galifrey to learn about the Hybrid.
So continuity wise, yeah it's a massive paradox considering The Master explicitly says he "took a trip home, to Gallifrey, hiding in its little *bubble universe*" in Spyfall Part 2.
In the best case, Gallifrey returned to the universe at some point after The Master managed to get out so we'd have Missy, but before Series 8's finale (Even though it's implied Missy left Gallifrey as the Saxson Master after it left the bubble universe so that would mean even more paradoxes as the Spy Master would've killed the Saxson Master)
And don't get me started on how Galifrey got destroyed by the Death Particle at the end of Series 12 and therefore it's existence is in question which if that all was still in the Bubble Universe (implied as it was through a tear in space-time in the preceding episode), it literally had 0 chance to return to the main universe like Missy knows in Series 8, and we see in Series 9.
@@Alovon you seem to be overthinking it a bit too much.
Besides Hell Bent's explanation is confusing as it is.
@@friendlyotaku9525 not really? It is a legit paradox that's pretty easy to come to if you pay attention.
Trying to come up with explanations for how everything we saw can happen in spite of it is overthinking it
Defending it as it is is just excusing even more bad story craft from Chibnal
@@Alovon you're literally overthinking based on a small piece of dialogue and that's it. And everything happened and did happen.
Fav master: Missy you’re so fine!!!
We all know which iteration of the Master is the best one.
The whole Timeless Child thing makes no sense...for the Doctor's character. As for the Master however, I think it would explain his sense of superiority and megalomania quite well.
I still think Missy is AFTER the Spy Doctor.
I love the thick of it reference, Julius nicolson as the master 😅
4:59 Can't they just recast him...
I think k it would’ve been really interesting if the Spy Madter had continued his character development as Missy and The Lumia, by becoming more of anti-hero/ lethal protector. A traveler like the Doctor, whose ultimate goal was to save people and protect time, albeit in a very violent and vengeful way.
Trying to untangle any kind of timeline in Doctor Who is madness, so kudos sir :p
Jonathan Pryce was a great Master.
True fans know which story he is the Master!!!
bruh reborn master got that agent 47 look going on🤣
When did the missy comic book take place then
You forgot about Rory Pond :D
Holy moly that’s confusing. I’ve only ever watched doctor who from the 9th doctor on wards. So there are also audio books I need to hear as well? Jeez
16:38 Missy killed Danny?? You kidding? Yet I've read the story Dismemberment, it's about Missy's revenge to the Scoundrel's club, there no mention of Danny there
I'm not a fan of the modern take on the Master. The original was a bit power mad but he wasn't insane.
The new Who version of the Master has become totally insane and over the top, especially John Simm and Sacha Dhawans versions.
Please do an episode by episode review of Children of Earth
I wish the Spymaster was a pre-Delgado master
The Master got ratioed by The Toymaker
I really hate that the chibnall master comes after missy, it really feels like a step back for the character for me and a hill I will die on is that the timeless child should have been the master
Yeah, Doctor Who needs a fixed canon. Too fucking confusing too many novels, audio dramas that fuck up the timeline even more
Honestly the ADs tend to stay pretty true to the show. The show itself is the one constantly fucking up cannon lol
Ignoring your sarcastic comments about my favourite doctor (Sasha) cool video
Saxon Master is my favourite, he's just so menacing.
Everyone always refers to Delgado in these comprehensive Master videos as the 12th incarnation. Do we have a source on that? I know that he's the version that we see directly before the Peter Pratt one, but does that necessarily mean that he precedes him immediately in time?
Missy Rules!!
Yeah, Dhawan isn't canon as much as I liked him
Bahahahahahahah, Simm! Master's tribute act. Now, that's how you get a new subscriber!!!🤣🤣🤣
It's pronounced Tree mas
19:47 "In Power of the Doctor he decided to craft an incredibly elaborate plan to capture the Doctor and force her to regenerate into him, so he could get her cancelled on Twitter."
Goddamn Chibnall.
nobody likes the crispy master…
Macqueen is best Master, FYI
Maaannn the fact that chibnall threw away Missy's character development just to make such a shit incarnation of the master that does pretty much nothing is so disappointing. It's right there with the timeless child garbage
Best Doctor Who content on TH-cam my mind can’t be changed
Ayo, you didn't need to tell us about the voice actor's views.
I mean they're horrible, but this is the first I'm learning about it...
Missy = best
Great vid, as usual - although your fade-to-blacks still feel abrupt, a bit too long, and... I dunno... weird. LOL
They're ad breaks lmao
@@HarboWholmes Hahaha! Damn that blasted adblocker!! :)
Don't forget the audio with "Professor Stream"... another not quite Ainley version...
Missy is the prove that audience is not against gender swap incarnation of time lord. they simply against badly written one. I hate what the show has turned into. shadow of it own self
Wait Chantho was a love interest?
I think there was an implication that she liked him; pretty sure she was meant to mirror Martha
Jack of All Trades, MASTER of None!
Wow so they basically just threw away Missy’s character development… yah imma pretend that’s not what happened cause that’s stupid
My favourite Who channel 🔷🔷🔷🔷
what exactly was the horrendous thing that James Dreyfus said to lose his role as The Master???
that trans people are misogynistic guys in skirts for waging war of hatred on JK Rowling and sending death and rape threats to women as part of campaign to put them back in their place. Normal schitzo posting
James Dreyfus is now my favourite iteration of the Master after this vid
common Harbo Wholmes W
Illuminauhti getting what she deserves and the history of the master in the same week! Is it Christmas? ❤
When you have the timeline of the Master from Big Finish, and combine that with the TV series it’s kinda a cluster fuck.
The Mestizer from Time Hunter also!
Wait Lady Morgaine was a The Master?
Interesting video. I knew there were other incarnations of the Master outside of the TV series in Big Finish and other media, but I had no idea how many there had been, or all the adventures that they had gone on. Even more than the Doctor has done in their lifetimes so it seems.
If I had to choose a favorite I would have to go with Missy. She's pathological, scheming and ruthless like all the others, but she's also quirky, humourous and underneath it all, somewhat good at the same time. She learns to have a heart and wants to get back in good graces with the Doctor and be friends once again. The fact that she's the one who basically paired Clara and him together doesn't hurt either.
Can't wait to see what the next version wil be like, dastardly and sinister, or apocolitic and destructive? Who knows?
I was just sure the Master was also a timeless child. Given Tecteun's character I can't see her risking her own life with experimental gene splicing.
.
IMO it would make more sense for her to use some orphan or prisoner as a guinea pig first. It would also be a good explanation for the master's madness as the first successful experiment would still likely have flaws.
.
It would also go a ways in showing a reason for the master's millennia long inferiority complex - like deep in his subconscious he remembers the early days of the gene splicing and being constantly compared to the doctor only to always be found to be lacking- overall just inferior in every regard.
.
After Division turns his memories into swiss cheese, the emotional/mental trauma of being harshly killed repeatedly and judged even more harshly remains buried as a madness and resentment that even he doesn't fully understand.
It’s a renegade Master!
So the Crispy Master was Dante from Fullmetal Alchemist?
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What missy killed Danny Pink 🤯
Only if she was driving the car.
Hmm…are YOU The Master?
Lumiat doesn't exist. Saxon Master regenerates into the spy master, Spy Master regenerates into Missy, and then missy dies, permanently
Is it really necessary for you to include your personal opinions of people in your reviews? I was really enjoying this until it turned into a character assassination of James Dreyfuss. I don't know or really give a damn what his opinions are of an issue I have no interest in, but I liked his Master, I don't believe that he or anyone should be denier work simply for holding un-PC views, and I don't see how it is any of your business to condemn him.
This is where I paused, checked up on what happened, and stopped watching. I'm cancelling harbo boy!
So it's ok to be transphobic and hate minorities?
Voicing hateful and inflamatory opinions is not only objectively immoral, but it makes the company look bad and hurts their brand. He basically forced their hand. You can be a super mega nazi racist and have a secure job, the trouble comes when you're the face of a product and publically voice these opinions.
@@gengarvenom1180his opinion is not out of the ordinary by firing him they encouraging cancel culture
Missy is the best. Just saying. Best character development of any character in the series. Robbed with the newest master. Should have let that chain end with her.
I would have used Apollo Creed, not Ivan Drago but okay
I like that voice actor. This freak show has gone on too long
forgive my ignorance, to what are you referring too here?
Hah, at first I was like, is that James Dreyfus? Never knew he played him, good news about him being fired though 😂🏳️⚧️
Who’s got the master action figures in their collection
Hot take: I don't think the voice actor should have gotten fired for having an opinion.
I think it's fine for a company to decide that they don't want to give money or a platform to someone they don't agree with tbh. Aka: no jobs for transphobes.
Being a transphobe is absolutely worth being fired for as he would be a liability. People don't like supporting people with awful views.
@@beesbrownies “stay 100% within our ever changing political boundaries or you can’t have a job” classic liberal fascist
@@ImDehydratedisagreeing with minorities rights and their existence is not some simple political opinion. You're fundamentally attacking a minority and disagreeing with human rights
@@mrdr0161define human rights