How Doctor Who Perfectly Introduced Missy
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#DoctorWho #Series8 #Review - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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I hate this iteration of the Master. So creepy, neurotic and segsually predatory toward the Doctor. Besides, it denatures completely the nature of the Doctor and The Master's brotherly frenemy relationship esthablished in canon DW lore ever since the Pertwee Era.
Jon Pertwee and Roger Delgado must be rolling into their graves as we speak, ever since 2014, looking at how the NuWho showrunners desacrated the friendship of their respective former characters, and by extension of theirs.
This iteration of the Master has little to do with the Master. He's more of a Rani-esque expy meeting the eerie League Of Gentlemen iteration of Mary Poppins and Sharon Stone's villainous character from Basic Instincts, than anything about the Doctor's greatest enemy. He don't want to f%ck him: "she" wants to _f%ck_ him... then f%ck him, and not in an esthablished order. That's gross.
My African mother was almost tempted to stop watching Doctor Who ever since the Missy reveal.
@@ptolemeeselenion1542 lmao cry about it nerd
16:40 Heeey while it's poorly explained, Cyber-Rain would make sense as a parallel to the broad fields of nanotechnology, which is presumably possibly able to become advanced enough to cause mass scale change of this systemic level of capacity that quickly. There'd be a lot of handwaveyness even in the best case scenario, but at least it's not totally implausible like Kill The Moon. I wish Kill The Moon was good. :(
When you get to series 10 you should talk about how the series perfectly foreshadowed bills fate
One of my favorite lines ever uttered in Doctor Who "Do you think I care for you so little, that you betraying me would make a difference?" --- powerful statement of love for another person as has ever been said.
More like the Doctor simping for a Delilah or Pandora who *literally* has been _designed_ by higher powers to keep him on check and screw him, for two minutes straight.
@@ptolemeeselenion1542 oh what the fuck are you talking about
@@ptolemeeselenion1542 Missy's plan relied on the Doctor and Clara developing a really tight relationship. It doesn't change what James Lewie wrote.
That line hits me like a truck every time I hear it
And it's wonderful insight into the Doctor's relationship with the Master, too.
Michelle Gomez's delivery of the line, "I just want my friend back" was so poignant and scary all in one simple phrase, it fully cemented my opinion of her as the Master and as an actor in that tiny moment. So much obsession and pain in six words.
if only they remembered the character was male though.
She did more in those six words than John Simm managed in his entire run. I like John Simm as an actor but Michelle Gomez's performance was *chef's kiss*
@@ptonpc true but this is still a male role
@@pastorbri Fixation on the gender of a nonfixed gender species of two hearted aliens is silly. You're being silly.
@@pastorbrinope. michelle gomez manages to capture the energy of classic masters, the 96 one, and Simm’s, and incorporates feminine accoutrements into hilarious bits that make the character’s gleeful chaotic antagonism shine through. Giving the Master a female regeneration was an excellent move. Huffing and puffing because someone with a vagina sullied the gender purity of a camp villain on a sci if romp show is stupid.
You’re stupid.
I LOVE in Dark Water how the Cyberman reveal is actually on screen in increasingly less subtle ways all the way up until the big reveal. Really nice way to let the watcher discover it at different times based on their knowledge/perspicacity
Yea! When the elevator door closed that was, by far, the coolest lead up to a villain reveal in the Moffat era.
@@NileSWPhotography Big agree. Loved that moment.
it's also like a cool misdirect to trick the audience into thinking they know what the twist is going to be and then sideline them with the Master reveal
Danny didn't want Clara to deactivate his emotional inhibitor, he wanted her to activate it.
I really like this finale, I love the "I'm an idiot" speech, and I adore Michelle Gomez. She's incredible in everything and is such a good Master
Capaldi and Gomez absolutely RULE thought out that whole sequence (and the "I am... An idiot!" portion makes me smile to this day) 😃
just odd they forgot the master is a man
@@pastorbri It was established earlier that Time Lords can change gender. Thus Missy.
@@pastorbri man or woman, it was still some amazing acting!
@@ptonpc Not a whovian I take it, it was established time lords NEVER change gender till moffat took over.
For me, the whole Cyberpollen and danny plotlines didn't actually feel weird at all. Cyberpollen just felt like a natural evolution from cybermites and the whole Danny not being effected by his emotions just seemed normal. Sure he's a Cyberman, but the inhibitor was never on to begin with, therefore theres no whiplash on the systems when he sees himself in a reflection. It always seemed to me that the reason they explode was due to the sensory overload all the repressed emotions being released all at once caused. So if they were never repressed you wouldn't get any sensory overload, you just might run a little hot.
It also felt thematically fitting due to his history as a soldire, in a way, Danny has already *been* a cyberman. A cold emotionless killing machine only concerned with following it's orders, of course he'd hesitate to delete his emotions.
And the Doctor was foreshadowed to be a warrior, a killer, a raiser of companions who would die MANY times. One such instance was with Davros!
I agree about the cyberpollen. I've always thought of it as nanomachines that extract the materials (most of which are readily available) from the general environment to rebuilt necessary body parts for the host and the armor and electronics to make them into full cybermen. They could also easily replicate themselves until they are numerous enough to do the job. I'm sure Missy enhanced them a bit with Time Lord technology, also; why wouldn't she?
There's been an emotionally intact cyber(wo)man before, so Danny doesn't feel like an incredible leap to justify.
Agreed!
Excellent observations! Thank you
I think you are wrong on the 'problems' with the cybermen - they are not THE cybermen (or even the OTHER cybermen) that are real cybermen, but these are just things that Missy created based on what she knew about the real cybermen. So they have their own lore. And rather than being a race with their own motivations, the purpose of these cybermen was just to be Missy's army, so their role in the story makes perfect sense.
Was that ever said in expanded lore that Missy created these? Couldn't the cybermen be actual cybermen from when jon simm regenerated into Missy? The Master had access to them at the time.
I honestly hadn't realized that. Thanks.
Exactly!
There are, canonically, different "strains" of cybermen, aren't there.
In Hindsight, this episode was PERFECTION. The way that Murray Gold Cyberman music kicked it FORESHADOWED the whole thing! I liked how Missy was actually a threat yet just wanted to make the Doctor a friend! The ENTIRE series for me is one of the most underrated things! This, alongside all the 9th and 10th series coupled with the first two Matt Smith series is why I miss Old Who and STOPPED watching in the Jodie Whitaker era! The entire series is UNDERRATED because it forshadow's Pink's death with the THEME of death in (almost) EVERY episode! That's why Kill the Moon was good in my opinion - it foreshadows in terms of big decisions and themes THIS! In hindsight, Missy has now become my FAVOURITE incarnation of the Master and I stan her now MORE than characters such as River Song. For me, we need more Missy interactions - her character is deep and thought provoking, about actually making friendships rather than "Imma take over or destroy the world now!"
Excellently put
"Missy and Her Boys" is such a great blend of the cyberman theme and Missy's waltz. We don't give Murray Gold enough credit.
I really like how Missy's plan of the Doctor becoming like her failed (giving him an army, etc.), but the other part (introducing Clara to him) eventually almost succeeded in series 9, with 12th actually crossing the line and becoming more Master-like. It is in the end up to Clara, who caused the change in the Doctor, to save him from that path etc. (which neither Twelve nor Missy will know). I believe it ties Hell Bent with the whole tenure of Clara as a companion and it elevates the arc significantly. Especially with series 8 (and 9) exploring the Doctor perhaps becoming like the Master in this sense and series 10 doing the opposite with Missy's arc. It is something that I haven't seen talked about.
Now, Hell Bent as an episode... will have to wait.
P.s. really enjoying these reviews lately, cheers!
RTD had the best incarnation of the Daleks/Davros in NuWho and Moffat definitely had the best Master. I'd say Missy only needs more appereances to take over Delgado as best overall performance, she's that good. She's hypnotic, charismatic and cruel which is perfect for a Master. Her dynamic with 12 is an interesting mirror of the Third Doctor with the OG Master.
I completely agree rtd’s Daleks we’re the best moffat’s master was the best and I would say Chibnall has the best evil Sontarans and for me I love the lone cybermen
(I think) the scene with her and Osgood in the plane showed the best/worst of her unhinged personality.
I never cared much for Danny Pink but his final move in giving his only chance to come back to the kid (that he killed) really spoke to the core of his character. I wish we would have had more time with him tbh.
He just kinda swooped in and stole "our" clara while being kinda weird and controlling, but at the end of the day he gave up his chance to come back to make up for his mistakes.
This is why i really struggle to like Sacha Dhawan as the Master.
Michelle Gomez just knocked it out of the park with the level of insanity, but managing to really make you love her. And her arch and finale were fantastic. To have it all undone,
She meshed wackiness with sadism in such a fun(?) way, truly a one of a kind. Simms was more sinister, Dhawan is just a bit grating to me, but Missy made you feel a little wrong for loving her so much
@@duncantiv Dhawan feels like an angry incel. Like he yells to respect him but he doesn't do anything worth respecting. I think he can play insane briefly like a loony toon, but it mostly just feels like an angry young man in his twenties.
also she was miscast in a male role so Sacha was better.
Ikr?
It would, almost, have been better (and it would _definitely_ have been narratively better) to have her evolution and genuine decision to be a better person etc etc.....only to be tripped over by her past mistakes as it were be the end of her story.
The tragedy of the Doctor never knowing she really did change and didn't abandon him.
@@pastorbri Yaaaaaawwn.
no showcase of the doctor falling out plane to the Tardis is a crime, the music alone is incredible
When discussing the Doctor and the Master's relationship with Simms vs Gomez, I think it's so interesting that with 12 and Gomez, it's all about being friends again. 100%. They kiss and somehow Moffat (Moffat???!?) manages to keep it blatantly platonic. Meanwhile with 10 and Simms, it's well... I mean this in the best way possible (because I love their dynamic too) but it is just so incredibly homoerotic it's not even funny
It may not be a masterpiece, but it is an excellent Master piece
but the master is a man
@@pastorbri Except when a woman.
Lol, you really are small-minded.
(splutter, splutter 'No I'm not, says he. )
@@Tao_Tology least I have a small mind, gender swapping folk have no mind at all!!! (splutter, splutter 'No I've not, says he. ) The master is still a male role old chap.
@@pastorbri Very on-brand spluttering, there. You really couldn't stop yourself.
And you just tried to play off "I have a small mind" as a positive. 😂
@@Tao_Tology oh are you still there??? Do you talk when no one is listening often old bean????? Wake me when you finish.... zzzzz
Always weird to me how this is the first of 3 finales to star the Master AND Cybermen.
They just love making Cybermen now.
Consider what the Cybermen are. They were once something that The Doctor loved - humans, with their emotion and compassion and brilliance. Except now they’ve had every one of those qualities callously removed, and should that emotion and consciousness be returned, it causes one of the worst deaths any Doctor Who monster could be subjected to
Made in pure cruelty with originally good intentions. Humanity destroying itself in the worst way imaginable. And The Doctor can do nothing about it
How can The Master NOT love that?
@@duublo1216 The one that truly showed that, World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls, is one of the best stories.
If you watch death in heaven, you see Missy deciding to kill Osgood. What I mean is that you can see that she decides she’s going to kill her when the doctor whispers “all of time and space” implying that she wanted to take that away from her and kill her just to be evil.
Also why do the unit soldier behind her literally do nothing?!? She’s just like imma kill you and the soldiers do nothing. Even when she counts down and quickly goes to Osgood for her weapon they just stand there
Though its not shown in this episode the Master, especially in classic was known for their ability to hypnotise people. Ive always assumed she did that to the soldiers while they were guarding her.
The volcano scene and the TARDIS scene that follows is one of the best scenes between a Doctor/Companion. Capaldi really had some banger finales. You made a good point about how their goodbye here was like the last safe exit for them, because disaster is headed their way. Missy had a a great introduction. It's funny that Missy is the only person we ever see Twelve kiss.
Out of all my favorite Doctor-companion moments in the entire history of the show, the “go to hell” scene may be my absolute favorite
Clara: *throws the keys into the lava*
The Doctor: *Snaps his fingers, boards the Tardis* "You coming or What?"
Whats implied is that you still need a key. The TARDIS has lots of psychic stuff built into its tech so presumably the Doctor is using that via the key to unlock the door when he snaps his fingers. No key no psychic link, no way to get into the TARDIS.
@@pettytyrant2720 The Tardis is also smart enough to know what the sign on her door says and feels jealous of the stray humans her pet Timelord brings home.
So I'm sure she knows who to let in when asked.
Plus the Master manually locked the snip on the door, to prevent a key from being used, then had to go to the console to prevent the sonic from getting in.
Plus Game Station can beam people out, Keblamazon can beam robots in, Titanics can ram their way in, and the Doctor can teleport into the Tardis while it's perpetually exploding from the inside to save River Song.
@@fanthonyfictions The TARDIS can certainly unlock her own doors if she chooses, we see that in Hide with Clara. The Master as a Timelord youd assume would know how her systems work and if necessary how to override them and manually take control. Game Station it was weird wired up girl who was hooked up the Daleks too, Id presume she got knowledge that way of how to get into the TARDIS, and used the same tech the Daleks are using to transport people off the station to be daleked. With Titanic the Doctor had deactivated the ships shields, and the River one the TARDIS console room isnt exploding its held in a time loop completely intact, and the Doctor doesnt transport into it, he time travels into it using a vortex manipulator. Im ignoring Kerblamm as I do all of Chibnal era, as in that era it seems any sod can get in no problem and without explanation and like all Chibnal things it breaks so much more than it adds. Best forgotten about.
@@fanthonyfictions The shields were down when the Titanic rammed into the tardis
Used to not like this finale but after rewatching it recently, I absolutely loved it. A lot of the individual plot details make the episodes themselves messy but they provide excellent payoffs for the plot threads of the whole season
Michele Gomez is the very best incarnation of the Master. She's insane and OTT but it doesn't feel hammy like John Simms version.
One of my favorite 2 part series. The library 2 parter is still my favorite but Capaldi kills it every time out and Missy being properly introduced as the Master was an excellent reveal.
except the character is male.
@@pastorbri Going by the amount of spam you have sprayed over these comments, you really have an obsession about where a fictional character keeps their reproductive organs. Are you feeling threatened by having a fictional character be a different gender to you?
I have to admit when she said it, I let out a small cheer. It was so well done.
@@ptonpc Do u worship satan old bean, u talk like one.
Kate is magnificent in this and it is because of the muted understatement of her acting just like the restraint used with the cybermen. Both things you mention as being problems for you. Both get to be stronger characters in the series as a whole because of the restraint ‘masterfully’ employed here.
And yeah, Missy steals the show
I loved Missy as a character, but one of her best moments, at least in my opinion, was how she kicked the Doctor while he was down, giving him hope by saying she found Gallifrey, and freely giving him the spatial coordinates, while leaving out the crucial temporal location.
Several people I know twigged out who Missy was well before the reveal. My initial reaction was "Can't be!" But pretty soon it dawned on me: why NOT? So yeah, it worked.
why not? Coz the character is male.
The opening of Death of Heaven always made me want to have this twist actually happen. Imagine if the 16th Doctor ends up being one of 15’s companions.
god, michelle gomez was such a treat.
I LOVED this two parter. I didn't at first but now it's easily, to me, one of the best finales in Who.
Quick Narrative Point: The Tardis is alive. If The Doctor were ever locked out (even before the 13th) I can't imagine her not opening up for her pilot. I felt this back then on original watch. Clara's outburst seemed in vain to me because even without the keys, The Tardis would open for The Doctor.
One thing that ruins the stakes in the TARDIS key volcano scene is the fact that the Doctor can snap his fingers and open the door to the TARDIS whenever he wants and has been able to since Forest of the Dead.
This final is so much fun! I adore Missy, especially the dynamic between her and twelve
if only she had been the Rani
Looking forward to this. Dark Water is one of my favourite Capaldi episodes
I used to be quite mixed on the series finales of series 8 and 9 but actually really love them as great character stories.
Just a thought... Wouldn't Danny Pink have been considered an impediment to Missy's plans for Clara and the Doctor as their becoming the Hybrid? Is it so inconceivable that she could have... oh I don't know, 'manipulate' someone into running Danny Pink down... literally?
According to the book The Missy Chronicles, Missy herself ran him over!
Well that kind of takes away from his death then just being a random event of life though. Because now his death was not random but intentional by Missy.@@HarboWholmes
One thing that dawned on me when these first aired, was Amy and Rory were more then likely converted in their graves in New York
Ok, there is a lot to like here: Missy, Clara, Doctor, Danny, the relationships and emotional bits.
It is hamstrung by the mistreatment and misuse of the Cybermen.
I never thought the skeletons in the vats were Cybermen. I never suspected it, because Cybermen aren't filled with just bones, they're filled with flesh and blood people. They are, as the name (and every story up to this point) implies, Cyborgs, not Robots. The people who become Cybermen are NOT DEAD, that's the true Horror of them, and Moffat messed it up!! They are alive and stripped of emotion and now your family is your enemy. Making them dead, is just dumb, it reduces them to robots and why would robots have need of a skeleton. Cybermen always in the past needed Living subjects, which was why they always converted the living and never before went digging for bodies. It is also why the emotional inhibitor is needed in the first place, since the dead don't have any. Compound this error with the Cyber Rain of stupid, and metal being magically generated in coffins, then disrespecting the legacy of the Brigadier, and you're left with flaws it is really Really REALLY hard to overlook. I've been mad about all this since it aired, and I have mostly moved on, until someone brings it up again.
I never watched Preacher, but the show Lucifer did this style of afterlife too. People's personal hells were people locked into the worst moments of their lives, OR viewing the worst decisions they ever made and the consequences they caused. They even did a story where the only man to ever earn his release from hell to go to heaven was someone Lucifer coached a bit, but they ultimately decided on their own to stop being afraid and make a different choice in the replay than they did originally, a harder more painful choice, but the right thing to do, and thus dissolving their regrets.
As a side note here:
There is a closer to home analogy to the Missy's Matrix Afterlife, and that's from the Faction Paradox spinoff of Doctor WHO, I'm speaking about "Of The City Of The Saved." Spoilers to follow if you've never read this Excellent book: The City of the Saved is actually a living TARDIS that has time scooped all the dying souls of all humanity all throughout time, from the first conscious Australopithecus to the most futuristic Cybridized Post-Humans, and deposited them all into this impossibly vast City to live together at once. It has everything from ancient Romans, to cave men, to the barely human at all anymore. Hitler is there serving a prison sentence for all eternity, Vlad the Impaler is there, being hounded by goth nerds who have no idea what he's really like, and just anybody who ever was anyone, and anyone who wasn't, are all there. And nobody can die again, so you can't kill your enemies in life or in your afterlife, you have to work it out or live far apart. It really is a brilliant story and is mostly standalone with only the vaguest of Doctor WHO or Faction Paradox knowledge needed to read and enjoy it.
I'm going to look up that book. It sounds good.
To handwave a Moffat-plothole, those were Missy's version/creation of a cyberman army.
I love the speech with the music The Doctor and especially Capaldi is so good at the speeches, and that soundtrack is perfection
Missy is my favorite version of the Master in the modern series. Loved Simms too.
But gonna have to disagree about the cyberpollen. It’s brilliant. Not off topic, but cybermen are similar to Borg in a way from Trek and I always wondered if they’d introduce borg nanites to the air. Imagine how scary that would be, assimilation without contact. Just in the air. So it’s why I like the cyberpollen, even if it’s just raising the dead here. It’d make cybermen terrifying if used on both the living and the dead.
This finale by itself it's really stunning in all those facts you pointed, but it's even greater now knowing how series 9 (and specially the first episodes and the finale) developed, moffat did a fantastic job setting all those episode around 3 essential points: 1- 12th and clara (real friendship versus abuse and control, the lack of boundaries between them and how far they would go for each other in a way that even looks like a competition of who will miss the other most), 2- missy and the doc's friendship (the duality in they being old friends and arch enemys, how they cope with that love and hatred at the same time, which we see better in magician's apprentice where missy assures to be his best friend but keep trying to play tricks on him and making him angry with all the clara-dalek stuff) but mainly 3- the doctor's struggle in being good or not, danny pissed him many times in s8 about him being a general, all what we see missy doing in death in heaven trying to make the doctor to be the bad guy at once we also see davros doing in witch's familiar, so this finale in s8 paths the way so s9 sustains the hole philosophy of good/bad and how the doctor struggles with it, until we see him recognizing in heaven sent that he cant always be a doctor. This was a real great development for capaldi's doctor, after all the time passed of the time war he can finally cope with all the anger and the trauma of doing something bad in the past (which we know that even him knowing thats been reversed, he was still dealing with that pain and remorse), assuming now that its okay for him not to be perfect, but that sometimes he's just an idiot with a box!
I think Missy proves that it wasn't "fans can't accept a female Doctor" so much as the female doctor we got just...didn't live up to the standard. Missy was _spectacular._ Possibly my favorite rendition of the Master (admittedly, I've only seen 3). I am inclined to blame Chibnal for the disaster that was his run, not Jodie. I don't know her as an actress well enough to know if she could have played the Doctor better with better writing and direction. But her Doctor just...meh.
Nah, a biiiiig part of the toxic fandom "but WHY a female Dr" was just plain old mysoginst attitudes about 'my Doctor Who has to be a man, just because'.
I don't think Jodie's series were great but there were 100% "fans" who just didn't like a female Doctor.
@@Tao_Tology I can guarantee the backlash would've been lessened by EITHER of these two choices by the show runners (both would be superior, obviously):
1) Write her well, and actually let her be the Doctor, rather than writing her as some sort of bad fanfic knock-off who has to undermine the entire history of the show.
2) Don't make "a female doctor" for the sole purpose of scoring woke points, and then mock and deride fans who point this out.
This third point would be unnecessary if either of the above two were followed:
3) Don't use "you're all just hateful woman-hating misogynists!" as a way to dismiss all criticism of your failure to write good Doctor Who stories and your destructive and stupid middle school fanfic-grade "big plot."
Evidence that fans of Doctor Who are perfectly able to accept a female Doctor is in the character of Missy and how well she was received. Write a female doctor with that level of quality and care for the material, and it might actually have been interesting!
@@segevstormlord3713 Haha
That 2) shows you are part of the -backlash- misogyny.
What a wally.
@@Tao_Tology Nope, your dismissal of it shows that you're part of the woke point-seekers, and neither care about a female doctor nor the quality of the show... only about scoring woke points for yourself. You'll bray whatever the leftists want you to bray.
But like I said, even if they failed at (2) but succeeded at (1), I doubt hte backlash would've been nearly so bad. I certainly would've watched it even if I had to roll my eyes at the solemn chanting of woke shiboleths by the behind-the-scenes staff talking about how it was such a bold and brave move on their part to make the Doctor a woman, as long as the plots and the direction and the acting had been good. Unfortunately, part of the woke virus is being a middle school chuuniebyo who has to prove how brilliant you are by destroying everything that came before you injected wokeness into it. You can't just add the thing you claim to want; you have to tear down what came before. And, worse, the woke injection is often there to push a talentless hack into a position he has no business being in the first place.
See point (3).
@@Tao_Tology You do realise that Chibnall likely has done damaged the franchise right, if RTD can't recover the show well enough, it could be axed. 13th was horribly written, her "gang" was a collection of boredom and to the timeless child was just horrible fanfiction and not needed.
Coleman absolutely kills it in the tardis key scenes.
I can’t wait to see your reviews of series 9
The funny thing is, I thought that Karabraxos would turn out to be Missy when I first watched Time Heist, so it's funny that it turned out Michelle was actually going to play her 😂😂
I just cannot imagine any other character playing (this regeneration of) the Master better than Michelle Gomez.
I like this story but I completely understand why people dislike it because of the extremely dark afterlife concept for a family show. I also don't really like how every Doctor Who companion who died on earth was later likely tortured then turned into a Cyberman.
Yep.
Its also silly to keep gender swapping roles,.
@@pastorbri It's "silly" to be a misogynist crybaby.
In hindsight after seeing where the push for timelords to be able to change sex lead us to in the end: The Timeless Child and 13th's poor run. Can you really blame him for saying that. Since it was little steps like this that lead the way towards the more outrage stuff later on. She was a good Master but well sometime's you do wonder if they should have just stopped there.@@Tao_Tology
@@Historyfan476AD Drivel.
I was 8 when did episode came out, didn't know what cremating was at that age 😂😂
I adored this two parter when it aired, but it is one of those stories that has really dark consequences once you really think about it. Now I'm just really haunted thinking about Ianto Jones, with all his trauma from the fall of torchwood one and Lisa, dying and ending up in the nethershere and then being turned into a cyberman himself. And can you imagine Jack Harness finding out about this event after the fact (if he wasn't on earth at the time, it's kinda unclear where he's at at this point in the timeline). Not just the horror of Ianto becoming a cyberman but literally all the people he had loved and lost on earth in his century waiting. I really want more stories dealing with this issue. There are so many dead characters who are beloved to fans or just to the characters themselves that would have been caught up in this. Hell, just off the top of my head - Mickey's Gran, Clara's mum, the original Pete Tyler who died in father's day, Amy & Rory, so many characters - all suffering in the nethershere and eventually turned into cybermen
Wait what's wrong with the brigadier coming back as a cyberman? He gets to save a life one final time. That's beautiful to me.
The mundanity of Danny’s death is truly brilliant, I just really wish it wasn’t a car, because no soldier would be that careless. Man would’ve heard that car, or at least had the social awareness that he was on the road. 👍🏽
I do like the way the writers ignore the fact that all the doctor has to do is snap his fingers and the TARDIS doors will open
I’ve always loved this episode, like mentioned in this video. I love that it’s a more character based finale. Michelle Gomez is so damn good as Missy too
would have made a better Rani
@@pastorbri tbh I never really like the rani that much. Personally i think missy felt more like her own character rather than an incarnation of the master but I still couldn't help but love every second she was on screen
@@millynocito7958 well she was anything but the master, lets be honest
ffs on one hand I'd love to see a wrasslin essay from you but I also *love* the wee shoutouts and references you sneak in that no one else would get
I may or may not be tentatively working on a Bloodline essay ☝️
The one part I liked in this episode: love is not an emotion- it’s a promise. Love is a choice, not a feeling. Luv it
I loved this 2 episode story. I wasn't a big fan of most of this series first watch but this was a major exception.
Awesome breakdown!! love this finale its sick!!
I read Moffat's story differently here - my impression of these particular Cybermen is that they never were the original Mondasians but rather a version created by Missy to fit her plan. No, they wouldn't normally be able to explode and seed the planet with reanimating whatever but the originals, as far as I know, were never into using dead bodies either or able to operate without a cyber controller but given how brilliant Missy is I reckon she basically made a new version to suit her specific needs.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Moffat also did the cremation thing in Dracula
I suspect Clara wasn't just lying to the Cybermen when she claimed that Clara Oswald didn't exist... She was performing one of Moffat's clever scenes for the trailer for this episode. See also the 12th Doctor leaking energy from his hands to hint at regeneration (later on during all the Monks' stories).
Loved these two episodes! Missy is my all time favourite incarnation of the Master.
but the master is a man
Cyber Pollen I kinda assumed to be nanites.
Since some were thrown on 11 back in Gaiman's episode.
As for Danny keeping his emotions and not destroying himself, I had assumed it was because he was a soldier and has the experience of bottling up his emotions.
He's just about able to handle being a cyberman but he's still struggling.
7:58 "even if it's not a foreshadowing of Hell Bent"
I'm not sure about that - during the filming of this episode Moffat gave the interview i which he stated that the thought of the great cliffhanger nobody see coming for the penultimate episode of S09 - and we know it as Heaven Sent.
So he probably at least have an idea to push the Doctor to the limit at the end of S09
How they slowly built up Missy with the disposable characters being sent to the "promised land" is just done perfectly!
Every other season finale since Series 8 has featured the Master/Cybermen team-up (Series 8, 10 & 12). As enjoyable to varying degrees that they've been, I think we need a break from the Master and the Cybermen for a few seasons, or at least have one without the other.
Rewatching this video has made me realise something: Jenna would’ve played an amazing timelord. I’d go so far as to say she’d make a damn good Doctor.
Has big finish capitalised on this yet? Do we have any Clara and Me adventures?
Permission to Squeeee- denied
Lol.
Thinking about it, this might be one of my favourite finales
Fantastic video as always
I'd say Clara also laid a lot of the groundwork for a female Doctor, and it's a shame we'll never get Jenna Coleman as an actual female Doctor most likely, IMO, because she was good at it. It would just be too weird for audiences, even if it is theoretically possible.
I'd love to see her in a spin-off tho! I think it'd be really interesting 🤔
Maybe Clara - who has been all throughout the Doctor's timeline in echoes and then became functionally immortal herself, eventually becomes the Timeless Child, and the child's regeneration happens precisely because Clara CANNOT die anywhere else but on Trap Street, since her death is a fixed point. Maybe she never does go back and the rip that creates causes the portal at which the Timeless Child is formed? I'm being silly. But it could be fun as a fan-fiction. Maybe.
We do not need Jenna Coleman as the Doctor. That’s one thing we definitely do not need 😂 she’s insufferable when she tries to be like the doctor. Imagine watching her for 3 whole seasons, no.
@@NileSWPhotography I would love to watch her for 3 whole seasons. In my opinion, she was perfect when she was trying to be like the doctor, and Jenna Coleman is one of my favorite actresses
@@awhryan 😂😂😂 insufferable mate
She hasn’t got it to be the doctor, same with Jodie tbh. Coleman got annoying around mid series 7 for me 😂😂😂
Huh 1 minute after uploaded I get it recommended, cool
“do you think I care for you so little”, the missy reveal, danny’s death, don’t cremate me AND the cybermen reveal?? in one story?? gagged tbh
Michelle Gomez was in the comedy Green Wing her character of Missy does echo at times
If Osgood was killed by Missy, does this retroactively make the continuity for Kate weird, because she does mention Osgood in the 13th doctor's era?
the zygon 2 parter in season 9 explains it, original osgood and her zygon counterpart were both living as osgood, missy only killed one of them and whichever one that was ended up replaced by the end of the 2 parter with another zygon
Missy is easily my favorite master, 12 my favorite doctor, and clara my favorite companion. W era
I think I may have been asleep for long periods of this episode...
I would’ve loved to see much more done with Clara from her start with Eleven. “What are you? A trick? A TRAP!?”
A number of plot misses, IMO, for her character.
1) They never revisited the concept of multiple Clara’s throughout history.
2) The “woman in the shop” turned out to be completely meaningless, as Missy could’ve done that with anyone.
I absolutely loved the way the trailer for “Dark Water”/”Death in Heaven” teased Clara as some sleeper enemy: “Clara Oswald has never existed…”
Unfortunately, they never followed through on this potential. I think it would’ve been a great story that 2 seasons of this companion had been entirely orchestrated by Missy, and not even as a way to conquer or kill the Doctor, but still in the same misguided attempt to show him affection.
I disagree with your point two.
She chose Clara specifically, by giving her the best helpline in the universe. She chose Clara because of her controlling nature and other aspects.
Also for point 1, the Eleventh Doctor was supposed to die on Trenzalote, that's why the Claras didn't reach into future incarnations.
The cyber man army had to be a seriously credible threat for Missy’s offer of them to the Dr. to work.
"Armies are for people who think they are right, and no one thinks they are righter than you."
Perfect statement reflecting the Master's interactions with 10. He was the hero. 12 didn't even trust himself to be good let alone right.
As much as I love Missy, I wish that they would bring the Rani back. Also I wish Missy changed up her outfit after the initial goth Mary Poppins dress. Imagine the next time she showed up, she’s wearing a more timelord appropriate outfit. As for Clara, while I can respect her willing to do anything to save Danny, I hate that sense of entitlement she gets acting like she’s owed something just because she’s traveling with the Doctor which is my main reason I hate hell bent. She says she’s entitled to her past, so she gets her own tardis. She should’ve died and stay dead with the Clara we see in the diner being another splinter.
Nah I Prefer canon. Tbh
It's a foreshadow that Time Lords can change sex. It's why I'm so confused why fans got upset the Doctor changed sex! *We knew it was possible!*
After how Chibnall handled the first female Doctor, I don't think we will be seeing one for a while now, especially with how The Timeless child gutted the show. It's still not recovered from that.
I would have perferred it if Missy was actually a returning Black Guardian or the first televised appearance of the Eternal Death.
Army of Ghosts had a lot of influence on Dark Water/Death in Heaven. Cyberman invasion mistaken to be the dead returned to the living - Cyberman invasion revealed to be the dead returned to the living.
I remember being in middle school when this episode came out. I refused to watch the new season because I missed smith so much. My friend was watching it and she would tell me about it on the bus ride to school. I remember when she told me missy was the master I remember not wanting to accept it. Now I see missy as one of the best incarnations of the master.
Named my dog after this immaculate rendition of the master. . .
The rain can be made of nano robots and that's totally posible. 😊
It's no Masterpiece, true.
It is a Missypiece. 😉
Must have been something going around there as I came from from SWC and came down with something around 2 days after
I'd have to go with an A-. I really enjoyed what was good, especially Missy. I definitely agree there were aspects that weren't perfect, though.
I've seen a video where it claims that, if all the deads in graveyards became cyberman, than amy and rory became too LOL can't stop thinking about it its creepy af
I'm very happy to see someone who loves season 8 as much as me
Great finale. Love it.
I’m not that big a fan of missy ngl but I appreciate them going in a different direction and trying something new with the master
Oh come on, be fair about the Cyber pollen. Obviously it was more Timelord tech used by Missy, like the Nethersphere. If the Cyberrace had that ability on their own, it would be game over for the show. Another reason for ALL of them to burn...
the actress choosing not to watch the previous incarnation of the master was such a gamble
I really like this finale.
Oh missy you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind
despite being overall mixed on season 3 when i first watched it, i absolutely LOVED these two episodes and thought dark water was maybe one of the best capaldi episodes !!
For as much as Moffit loves the Cybermen, it's odd that they're utterly castrated during his time as show runner.
Missy is the beset incarnation of the Master ever and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong and should feel bad. I would watch a series entirely about her going on adventures.