24:11 I don't think you're giving the Time War solution enough credit honestly. The screwdriver as a metaphor for the Doctor himself - same program, different casing - was pretty brilliant, and it keys into the core of what makes all multidoctor stories work, that he (and us) truly can solve any problem if we work with our future generations and enable them. It's a great lesson honestly
I adore the detail on the night of the doctor on how 8 regenates into young war(young john hurt) Implying how he's been fighting for such a long time that it's taken it's toll even on his age. The war doctor begins of big finish shows this as well.
Does any media ever give us a good look at an early War Doc adventure? Such a shame that the couple I know of seem committed to capturing the character we saw onscreen, so we may never get to see him as "young"... Initially, the War Doctor aging miffed me because it makes a total hash of the Doctor's age, but that ship has long since sailed anyway. Still, remember the temporal weapons used warped time in various ways, it's entirely possible he was artificially aged (like Ten by the Master) and didn't actually reach that aged appearance normally...
Agreed, he is very wasted and sorely missed, and would have worked great in the ep...but I admit, it never occurred to me that the BBC might not want him because of the tv movie's reception! If that's true, then it means we probably won't be seeing him in ANY capacity. Shame...he was never going to be given his own series, but a series of mini-webisodes would have been very satisfying.
I do love the parallel between multi doctor stories and the multi master story. The doctor bickers with themselves but ultimately comes together to get things done. The master flirts with themselves and ends up stabbing themselves in the back in the end Also I think the zygon story, while underdeveloped, does work in context. It's like the moment showed the war doctor his future selves normal mode of operation, stopping bad guys
The multi masters stories from big finish are really good though still haven't listened to masterful yet I've listened to ravenous 4 and the master trilogy (you will obey me/vampire of the mind/the two masters) I don't remember if there are any others besides the missy story with the lumiat
There is that one missy story from her first boxset which I guess kind of counts as a multi-master story, where missy helps the slaves escape or so it seems that's what she was doing
I really like your reading that being locked in the dungeon is analogous to the future Doctors mindset when it comes to having the War Doctor as part of them. While you dismissed the resolution as a 'joke,' I'd actually say it supports your read, since the reveal is that the only thing keeping them locked up is, essentially, themselves and their pride and it takes a Companion unthinkingly blundering in to make them realize this.
Zygons were Tennant's favourite and the one classic monster he wished he could have worked with. That's probably why they used them to entice him back!
Regarding the cop-out and "misremembering that he actually saved Gallifrey", I always viewed it as that he originally did blow up the planet, and in The Day of the Doctor he changes the timeline not having done it after all. But in the OG timeline he did. That's at least how I view it.
Either way, the point is that he went through a lot of genuine suffering because of that choice...undoing it, by any means, really kinda cheapens that. Rewatching "Dalek" and other eps touching on the Doctor's trauma now feels completely different, because we now know he really *didn't* do that...but he still thinks he did, so he now went at least of a couple of regenerations tormenting himself over *nothing*, which lessens the power of those stories.
@@HandofOmega again that’s not how I personally view it. He originally did it, then changed what happened. In episodes like Dalek he’s still in the timeline where he actually went through with it. Again, that’s just my take away from the events of TDotD.
@@JTD95 Doesn't really matter, when the Doctors have a crosstime adventure, they lose their memories of the events until they live through it for the last time, after which they can recall the events from all POVs; this explains why the First Doctor didn't know what was going on in The Five Doctors, nor did the Fifth, despite having already lived thru them four times over, until they all parted ways, when he could suddenly remember it all. So, after parting ways in DotD, Eleven is the ONLY one who gets to know what really happened. This is confirmed in War's dialouge, when he says something like, "shame I won't get to remember this"...So, regardless of timelines, the Doctor is still going to believe he's a mass murderer for two entire regenerations.
And with respect to the characters, the war doctor did choose to blow up Gallifrey, so the character development still lines up. The time between the war doctor choosing to blow up Gallifrey and regenerating is a discontinuity that doesn't exist in the continuity of the 9th doctor, whether the past was changed or Gallifrey was saved all along.
Imagine giving a moment for Tom Baker to imply/state that Gallifrey is safe (which is confirmed later), just for Chibnail to kill all the Time Lords later anyway
But if the Curator is a future Doctor from some point after 13, I can't imagine he'd tell 11 that Gallifrey is out there if he knows the Master is going to nuke it. So we can assume it likely gets restored again eventually.
Still one of my faves and rewatchable anytime. Agree that it's a shame the 12th Doctor didn't do much to try to find Gallifrey, but then again it seems they weren't on the best of terms anyways. Tom Baker's cameo had me crying man-tears of joy, so good!
There was that time when Ten said something along the lines of choosing to remember the good things. He hated that they turned so indolent towards others' suffering.
12 has great character arcs but it would have been awesome if the plot arc had been him actively looking instead of them kidnapping him. Then again Heaven Sent was awesome so what can I say.
The Zygons storyline is to show the War Doctor the kind remarkable person he becomes after the Time War. He even tells it to Bad Wolf Girl. His guilt and regret of the destruction of his own world causes him to do better. Also "Cup of Soup".
Something I love about John Hurt's casting is that he's an old man, because it really suggests just how long the Time War has been going on for. You just wouldn't have been able to do that if McGann or Eccleston had been in that role.
The problem with it is, we have no emotional ties to the war doctor it has no meaning what he did because we have no prior experiences with him. Would've been far more effective as a 50th anniversary having Paul Mcgann being the bridge between the classic series to the new one in the 50th anniversary. The war doctor is just so shoe horned in.
As far as the saving Gallifrey goes, it's totally head canon on my part (and there's certainly many continuity hiccups involved, but what else is new), but I think it did happen the first time around. I think the War Doctor used the moment and burned Gallifrey and the Daleks. What we're seeing at the end of the episode is exactly what Eleven says it is: Him changing his mind. Be it timey whimey meddling by the moment or maybe some aftereffect of Clara entering the Doctor's timeline in the graveyard version of Trenzalore, but maybe some factor this time around was just different enough that caused the Doctors to make a different decision in the end. The whole misremembering thing was just history reshuffling around such a monumental change. Like I said. This is all head canon, but it lets Nine, Ten and Eleven's journey still have all the meaning it did leading up to Day and makes Day not a retcon, but the result of that journey and living with that guilt and second guessing he's spent three incarnations dealing with.
I've always viewed the memory thing as the Moment's doing. It is clearly much more than a world destroying weapon, and I can imagine that it could make the Doctor think he did it, as penance for deciding to
I actually rlly like Osgood I thought she was so cool being a doctor fan who is actually competent. I love how his presence amazes her like it would anyone and she doesn’t see the dark sides just the good.
In the 50th anniversary I think they do actually reference Malcom from planet of the dead. When Kate Stewart is on the bench she says tell Malcom the birds need new batteries(I’m paraphrasing but she definitely says Malcom though) Also it’s very weird how the older doctor in this trio is played by the youngest actor and the youngest doctor is played by the oldest actor Also also the zygons want the black archive since it’ll allow them to take over the world in a day(as the zygon who’s taken a random scientists form says). Actual Kate Stewart comes in with osgood and random scientist to then blow up London. Kill thousands to save billions which is the same as the doctor thinking of killing billions to save quadrillions with the moment. The zygons are in London (since they want the black archive for its powerful items) which is why the bomb will only blow up London
While I enjoyed his performance, I'm one of those fans whose a stickler for continuity and such, so I *really* wish they hadn't messed up the numbering of the Doc's selves (and Moffat's "are you counting bodies or faces?" dodge was non-sensical), which opened the door to all sorts of stuff down the road, so that now the upcoming 14th Doctor is actually the 17th or 18th...It really would have been better if the ep had ended with some "timey-wimey" handwave that made the War Doc disappear from ever having existed at all, outside of the TW, esp since we knew we'd never see him again (but you can still have audios and comics etc)...
@@harryvideoz8863 Yeah, unfortunately. I wish sir John Hurt had done a Big Finish story with sir Derek Jacobi, as the War Doctor and the War Master respectively, before his passing. That would've been awesome.
An extremely niche criticism that only my mother, a prolific knitter, could make is that it's implied that Osgood's scarf is literally the same scarf the Fourth Doctor wore passed down to her except it's clearly not knitted in the same pattern as Tom Baker's scarf.......apparently. According to my mom anyway.
I really love the concept of the Moment: a weapon that, beyond being conscious, developed a _conscience._ That is to say, a weapon that refuses to be used.
Also, I love how Moffat expanded upon the big event in the novelization by giving a little bit more focus to Capaldi's sudden appearance (he literally walks into the meeting room of the timelords in the book) and by adding in an epilogue/prologue (yes, it's both in one, what did you expect) featuring Whittaker, allowing the two more recent Doctors to be part of this celebration as well.
For me, "Day Of The Doctor" has aged like fine wine. It's an epic episode I've REALLY come to appreciate over time. When I first watched it, I had my issues, but as time has gone on, I've just come to respect the task Moffatt had on his hands, and considering everything the Moff had to do, I think he did BRILLIANTLY! One of the things I like is that he doesn't overcrowd the story. I came to appreciate this after recent ventures, like CW's Crisis On Infinite Earths or Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness. The cameos and references in those feel shoe-horned in, muddling the focus of the narrative. That's why I personally disagree with Moffat's focus on mainly NuWho, with only three main Doctors at the forefront. Overall made for a more focused, character-driven, emotional-rewarding story, that made sense based on the trajectory of NuWho. You still get lots of Classic Who references: UNIT, The Zygons, Tom Baker, The War Doctor's Classical/Modern fusion, ALL THIRTEEN, etc. I feel saying that's a huge issue is a bit harsh. I agree it's a cop-out The Doctor never destroyed Galifrey tho, but that's more BTS reasoning. In the episode, War was going to destroy Galifrey, but Eleven changed his mind. With that, I think we can just say, after many years, after everything he's been through, all the regret, The Doctor FINALLY got to fix things. It's a shame the whole "Finding Galifrey" storyline has not paid off satisfyingly since then, but I think there is HUGE potential in a storyline where Galifrey FINALLY returns into the main universe, meaning The Time War would begin again, and then what will happen?! If I was a showrunner, that's something I'd definitely tackle (Tho I'm sure RTD can do better). Overall, I can see why Moffatt says this was one of the most difficult episodes to write as the showrunner, and it's impressive considering the BTS drama what he produced. Let's hope RTD can do the same (I'm sure he can. I'M SO GOSH DARN HYPED!!! 😍 *Knock On Wood* )
I like how War hopes his ears won't be so conspicuous only to there being jokes about 9's ears in later episodes. And the Curator alluding to visiting old faces. 12 revisits a face from his past.
Something from the time war that always has me itching for more information is the nightmare child. The little information we get is almost lovecraftian in nature just horrors even war hardened veterns recall with a bitter sting in their tongue, yet at the same time I don't want anymore information our imagination fills in the blanks. Bittersweet I suppose.
Harbo gonna be needing a well deserved break after Smith's run. The 50th Anniversary is certainly an episode but I feel the stuff surrounding it is way better when you consider the likes of Night of the Doctor, The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot and An Adventure in Space in Time were released the same month and set an unprecedented high bar for what was ultimately slightly underwhelming story. Thankfully we can forget about The Afterparty…
Love it or hate it, putting Gallifrey in a pocket universe explains how a few Daleks were able to survive the Time War. Instead of the 100% kill rate the Moment would have had, they blew themselves up with a 99.999% kill rate.
Worst thing chibnall era did was destroy off screen all the beautiful work this story did to give The Doctor the ultimate redemption they wanted. Such a cheap joke. Anyways to counter act negavity, bravo to you once again for reaching another milestone in your ultimate reviews, always good to watch
fun fact, the anniversary of doctor who is also my birthday, and this event specifically was my 16th. i had a few friends over to watch it and eat some tardis-shaped cake, then we just played mario party for a few hours after lmao
I like this episode, I also really love the book. I agree the show doesn't celebrate all fifty years of the show at the time but I think it does the smart thing of respecting the past and looking to the future, we see that pretty well in the twelfth Doctor's era especailly. I saw the episode while at the fiftieth anniversary celebration and it really was an event for me. Great memories. Fun fact: I got hit by a dinosaur while there.
The zygon plot does work into the solution for the time war. Both it and the screwdriver plan are used together to figure out they can seal gallifrey into a single moment of time "like a picture". They even say it in the episode.
Regarding the scene where all the doctors are saving Gallifrey, I recall reading somewhere that the 11th doctor sent out a psychic message to all previous incarnations as to what the plan would be. The message would state what the plan was and when to do it, that is why 10 and war react the way they do, with 10 saying “oh I’m getting that too”, as it was the message coming thru. 12 was there because he remembered sending the message out and when it was happening.
Something I love about this special is the concept of The Moment. The idea of a weapon of mass destruction having sentience and a consciousness to decide whether you can use it is really imaginative and unique. And for it to use a face of which you are familiar with(this special being exempt since it only shows one face, from War's future) is also haunting as a concept. Would love to see this presented in more sci-fi works, it would be so fun. I think in DoTD, It executes a really good narrative of showing the journey the Doctor has from cowardly exhaustion of the Time war, wanting to just stop it without weighing yet the full lasting consequences, to acceptance that he will lead a future life of sorrow and grief and that he must embrace that he isn't someone else for making this choice. He's The Doctor, even if his future selves don't believe that, even if he chose to be this incarnation to try and not be The Doctor. a weapon of mass destruction that forces you to accept that YOU are who is deciding this path of genocide, haunting and sad. The Moment is almost like a foil for The Doctor's motivations to be honest. The Doctor wants to help people from their pain, The Moment is helping The Doctor to go towards their pain, that being the genocide of their people and The Daleks. I think also that the experience with The Moment would later inform Capaldi's Doctor when pleading with Bonnie and Kate during that zygon inversion speech, The Doctor acting as The Moment's consciousness for the two boxes of irreversible destruction, The doctor having to be the one to convince to let things. Only instead of talking them into destruction, the Doctor talks them out of it, how he wishes The Moment would have done for him, or anyone else, before he did what he did*. *Thought he did.
I hadn't realised until watching this, but the way Clara is paired with John Hurt is not disimilar to the way that Tegan and the First Doctor were left together in the Five Doctors.
"That sound brings hope wherever it goes. To anyone who hears it Doctor, however lost. Even you." The entire barn scene is a masterclass in writing and acting, but THIS will forever be my favourite line in NuWho.
I wasn't expecting this special to focus so much on the Zygons, I mean they get more screen time than the Daleks. More to the point about Classic Who not getting enough representation, an easy fix would be to bring in a Classic companion as the Moment when Eccleston refused. It makes more sense with the War Doctor not having met Rose yet.
I read somewhere that Moffat's original plan for the 50th could have been a battle between Clara and the Great Intelligence within the Doctor's timestream. Basically the Great Intelligence would ruin a moment in the Doctor's history, then Clara would fix it, etc. If true, I'm glad it was scrapped (the 50th special being a Doctor lite episode would not work in my opinion) but it's a rather interesting idea tbh. It would have solved the one major issue with the 50th, that being not enough focus on classic Who.
the 50th was, in a sense, Doctor Who's version of Avenger's Endgame before that ever came to be. The epic scope of it and the war to end all wars. All the characters are great in their parts and how they interact off of each other. The callbacks were great to see and the Doctors trying to make peace with what the War Doctor had done was great to see played out. It was a shame that Paul McGann couldn't have been involved more, hopefully he'll pop up in the 60th somehow. Overall it's a fun ride and a pretty good multi-Doctor story.
I think you completely missed the point of the Zygons in this special. Thematically speaking, they tie into this story centered around The Time War because they are REFUGEES, showing just how impactful The Time War was on the rest of the Universe. It's true that any Doctor Who monster could have been used in their place, but the Zygons' ability to completely transform themselves into the people of Earth make them the most suitable to represent the difficulties and struggles involved when refugees attempt to immigrate to another place. As for their relevance to the plot, The Doctor never would have thought of how to save Gallifrey if he weren't inspired by what the Zygons did.
Day of the Doctor is one of Steven Moffat's strongest scripts. Not quite Heaven Sent level writing but not far off. Stories like The Angels Take Manhattan fall apart if you think about them too much but Moffat knew how important the 50th Anniversary was. He pulled out all the stops and must have redrafted this script countless times until he got it right. Day of the Doctor actually gets better the more you think about it.
I really like this special, and I saw it twice on TV on November 23rd, 2013, and in the movie theater and when I saw it in the theaters, I was a junior in high school and it was on a school night, and it was the best night ever. I can't wait to see the 60th anniversary.
People say the saving of gallifrey ruins the ninth doctor’s character arc. It’s fair enough if you think that, but my stance is that the Doctor flagellating himself for a genesis he didn’t actually commit is so fundamentally doctorish. He’s got a massive conscience, and just him thinking he did it is enough to set the wheels of trauma in motion
The Moment/Bad Wolf pulled the Doctors into the timewar and caught them up to speed. Then she put them back in their timeline and wiped their memories.
I think the unit/zygons plot ties in with the gallifrey plot because it introduces the stasis cubes, which are what is used to save Gallifrey. I also disagree with the happy ending part, this isn’t really a completely happy ending, Gallifrey is stuck, frozen in a single moment, for now it’s just as gone as if it were destroyed, to paraphrase the episode, the Doctor still has nothing, but he has hope. I also think this is sold really later when the Doctor lies to Clara that he found Gallifrey only to show him in the tardis drifting in space where Missy said Gallifrey was. It is, however, a shame that Gallifrey returns so suddenly.
I completely agree that it would've totally worked with the 8th Doctor. Don't get me wrong, John Hurt was amazing as the War Doctor, but I just wish Paul was given more screen time in the actual show instead of just 6 minutes on TH-cam. Especially considering the fact that he absolutely killed it in The Night of the Doctor. #MCGANNGANG
The fiftieth is good. The NOVELISATION of the fiftieth is stupendously excellent. Watching the fiftieth with the the context of the novelisation is so orgasmic I’m amazed you’re not buying your copy as you read
Seconded, Moffat himself wrote the novel, and tho he plays his usual "too clever by half" tricks (it's written first-person from the Doc's POV, but doesn't tell you WHICH Doc and constantly tries to surprise you), it's still a great read. The prison cell sequence alone is worth the price of admission (esp as, being a novel, I could reread it, "casting" the 8th or 9th Docs in the War Docs' role!), but the "Save Gallifrey" scene warms the hearts by being able to actually tell us what the various Doctors were doing to save lives at the end (they also have a large tea party in the museum, but we only get to see the tail end of that). If you only read ONE DW book this year...!
@@HandofOmega I’d quite comfortably say it’s one of the most innovative novel I’ve ever read, it’s like his brief was to write doctor who in the style of italo Calvino with a sprinkling of the elegant detail and character work of Frank Herbert. If anything I think it proves that Moffat would make a better novelist than a TV writer, when his imagination is unbound he can loose something truly special. RTD’s rose novel, on the other hand, is a bit of a damp squib. It’s not poorly written, but you realise reading it how much of RTD’s writing is based around momentum and flow, whereas a novel can and arguably should meander a bit more. He’s the master of creating instantly distinct characters but I don’t know if he always knows what to do with them after the detailed characterisation
@@tobylerone4285 One of my favorite bits in DotD is near the beginning, where the Doctor is explaining how he's psychically transmitting the story to the book in real time, so he's aware of us reading it, which he demonstrates by telling "Chris" to stop reading the book at his job and to get back to work...Now, it just so happens that I have a coworker named Chris who is also a Whovian, so I handed him the book and told him to read that passage...😉😅
First comment so maybe you’ll see this! Just wanted to let you know how much you’ve helped me through your videos (of which I’ve watched all of by this point). I’ve had a lot of long term mental health problems, which also affect my sleep. Your videos have been a massive help with this, real soothing - helps stop my head doing all sorts at night. Keep them coming, you’re smashing it :)
I do think there's elements of the war doctor though that is the essence of the classic series and it's commentary on the modern series if it was represented by a character, particularly when he interacts with 10 and 11.
For me this still is arguably the best hour of the show I've ever had the pleasure to watch. Some other episodes surpass in one element or another but none quite hold together as an entire block like this one does. I never found the ending too much if s retcon. What's the difference between Gallifrey being lost or destroyed? Functionally lost is the same. It was just a shame Moffat returned to the well and brought it back so quickly 2 years later. It could have stayed lost permanently and we'd be better off for it
I think Day of the Doctor is where Moffat really hit his stride as both a writer and as showrunner. I don't think Peter Capaldi holds a candle to Matt Smith but he did have stronger scripts, which is consistent with the quality that Moffat delivered in the 50th Anniversary. The fact that Smith is, in my mind, still the definitive Doctor despite having weaker stories than Capaldi shows that he's a far better actor than Capaldi will ever be. However, that's a casting issue, not a writing issue. On paper, Capaldi could have been the greatest Doctor of all time but he just wasn't a good enough actor to pull it off. Swap him with John Hurt and I'd be calling Seasons 8 and 9 two of the greatest seasons in Doctor Who history.
@@tomnorton4277 i always thought Moffat hit the ground running in series 5, but then struggled (maybe overworked / lack of time to perfect) to get his ideas across in series 6 and 7. Some great concepts but largely rushed through with some glaring holes. S5 though just worked. I think Capaldi era is great, but more of a mixed bag. The big concepts and ideas work, but with that ambition come more misses as well. In both cases even when the show mis steps the lead actor salvaged the worst excesses though.
Recently rewatched this one, I loved Matt's scenes, as well as Hurt's. David was obviously on his A game too but that was kind of expected. I loved the painting stuff too, interested that there wasn't much stuff done with the concept before in the show.
I absolutely love Day of the Doctor, it's my second-favourite Doctor Who story! I saw it in 3D at the cinema then watched it on TV that night - everything surrounding the 50th just felt so special and epic back then. It's not without flaws though, as you've pointed out. I've never liked the way Clara interrupts what should have been a beautiful moment of the Doctor coming to accept that he can't always save everyone, only to have him save Gallifrey. Ultimately it ended up being pointless anyway. The "search for Gallifrey" never really happened and then Chibnall just blew it up again off-screen. I also agree that there should have been more classic Who representation, although the Doctors all coming together and that final group shot were both beautiful, plus Tom Baker's surprise cameo nearly made me jump in excitement and surprise. Perhaps the Moment could have taken the forms of different companions from different points in their lives? That way they could bring back a companion to represent each Doctor, since most of them are still alive. My line-up would be: Susan, Jamie, Jo, Romana II (since Elisabeth Sladen had already passed), Tegan or Nyssa, Peri, Ace, Charley or Lucie (in their live-action debut), Rose/Bad Wolf, Martha or Donna, and Amy. Overall though, it's a beautiful celebration.
I remember this aired on thanksgiving and I left the table to go to my room and watch it. Time flies man, I was 9 years old. Easily one of the greatest episodes of the show.
The Zygon plot is the catalyst. I comes to give crucial plot device for war story and goes away without being used. Zygons are the ones who use the translate in painting device which is used to save time lords. But you can't just have it fall on Doctors head and be done with it. Also it's Kate who wants to blow up London to prevent Zygon to get all the confiscated alien tech. The Zygon Kate is the one who stops it every time.
I do love this episode, it has plenty of flaws I know but I do love seeing 10 and 11 act off each other. John Hurt was great as well despite how shoehorned in the war doctor felt due to being a last minute bodge. I also liked seeing the return of the Zygons, back when I was a kid in the 90s growing up watching classic Who reruns on cable tv and VHS the Zygon episode was the only episode of who ever that terrified me. For some reason the classic Zygons really gave me nightmares despite never being particularly scared by any other classic villains.
The only real failing in the DotD is that there is no reason established for why The Moment never just tells the War Doctor flat out about the idea of using the stasis cubes - if that really was its plan all along, implied by BadWolf Girl saying "Now you're getting it!" The Moment's purpose isn't to be a guru or a teacher, it's to be a conscience, and so it makes no sense that it goes to such convoluted lengths just to force the Doctor to figure out the idea for himself. Apart from that, it's a good anniversary special, and kicks The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors into the ground.
That 8th doctor special is some of the best of new who and I'm so annoyed he never got the chance to act alongside the rest of the modern doctors, especially since he is a bridge between the classic and new who era's.
Stephen Moffat wrote a novelization if this episode. It is well worth the read. There is a lot more detail and inner thoughts going on and lots of extra business and extended scenes. Moffat also wrote in a quirky way that will please fans of the timey-wimey. Highly recommended.
I have a theory that the emotional trauma of the atrocities of the time war flashback whenever the doctor regenerates, like their entire lifetimes flash before their eyes. Then the next regeneration's behavior and personality are shaped by that. Like when the 10th doctor asks rose who he is
25:58 The Destiny of the Doctor audiobook miniseries that was a co-production between AudioGo and Big Finish did use something like that to link the stories to the finale, the Eleventh Doctor contacting his past incarnations so they’d each provide part of the solution he needed to get out of the situation he was caught in be it making sure specific people got to the end of the story alive, collecting a particular item the Doctor of the story may have otherwise seen destroyed or running an errand that would pay off by the time the Eleventh Doctor needed it to.
To be fair the Doctor never thought of getting help from previous incarnations during the events of “The Stolen Earth”/“Journey’s End” or “The Pandorica Opens” both events featured universe ending threats. So it’s not too far fetched to think that the War Doctor never considered going back to his previous incarnations for help.
Is it possible that the event in one of the 7th Doctor episodes, where the Hand of Omega is accidentally used by the Daleks to destroy their homeworld, thanks to the Doctor, is what triggered the Time War in the first place meaning the Doctor started and ended the War
Thanks so much for the heads-up about the Fivish Doctors. I didn't even know it existed. Just came back from watching it on Daily Motion. It was hilarious!🤣🤣🤣
I forgot where I saw it, but I am pretty sure the BBC released a little comic that showed 11 went back in time and uploaded a program into the TARDIS which made the calculations to freeze Gallifrey.So I guess that means all the other Doctors likely saw it and didn't mess with it.
i was fine with the resolution to gallifrey personally, it's like last of the time lords where, while everything was undone, development still happened to the main characters. the doctor is still who he is because of everything that happened, even if he found a solution down the line. this special was always going to leave a dent on the trauma of the time war and i believe that how it was handled was a good way to have a suitably celebratory ending the zygon arc also serves as a way to organically introduce the solution to the episode and serve as a narrative mirror to the war doctor's story of having to find another way to forgo genocide. not sure why they picked the zygons of all things but at least it made for a neat moment with the statues ig
I’ve always defended the decision to bring back Gallifrey as it was going to happen eventually it’s to important to the lore if Moffat didn’t bring it back then someone would have
I always pictured the time war in a eldritchy way. I could see the timelords and daleks strip mining planets for resources, jumping back in time, setting up a paradox machine and doing it again. The fighting destroys one of those machines and causes a massive paradox destroying that region of space. I view the Could've Been King & Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres to be a faction of crazed and mad individuals that survive the various paradoxes caused by all the time fighting. The end of time makes it seem like both sides had lost control of the war and the very universe was fighting back as it was destroyed. The moment then just resets the universe and leaves the races involved in the war in the old universe to die out. Our universe knows nothing about it except the few races that managed to slip through and keep some legends of it. That's my quick, poorly explained, ramble.
Here's my defense of the Zygon plotline. The true protagonist of The Day of the Doctor wasn't the 10th or 11th Doctors. It was the War Doctor. This whole episode is essentially the Moment's bid to show the Doctor at his lowest point that he's not a monster. So it shows him his future selves: the hero and the madman, and it allows him to not only witness but participate in an act of peace. Saving lives instead of just taking them. The Zygon plot has a happy ending for everyone involved, and it's thanks to him. This is what motivates him to accept what he has to do. And later, it's what motivates him to save Gallifrey.
60th didnt feel like a monumental episode, just felt like a normal episode a bit less, was just okay. 50th was an amazing episode that i will rewatch alot
I think my biggest problem with Day of the Doctor is that the story doesn't hold up well. At all. It retcons the importance of the first four seasons story, and the story removed from the time war plotline doesn't really... work? This is a problem I have with Matt Smith's era in general, where Moffat kinda... doesn't really acknowledge the first four seasons happened beyond "Oh the Doctor is so lonely in the universe he's allllll so alone because he killed everyone else." But... that doesn't even matter anymore. Since Moffat retconned it. Now rewatching those great first four seasons just... the Doctor himself doesn't make sense. His PTSD and war trauma aren't weighted anymore. Because Gallifrey never died. He just kinda forgot he saved the entire planet...??? Like retcons are one thing, but to retcon a well loved plotline that set up all of the first part of the series feels like a huge slap in the face. I just despise it. I think Moffat in general struggles with large scale stakes and season long storylines, if you haven't seen it, I recommend checking out hhbomberguy's video on Sherlock. I'll give him credit he makes great single or duo episode stories, The Empty Child is one of my all time favorite episodes of the show, but this shouldn't have been in his wheelhouse, or written by him in the first place.
I just wish that Elisabeth Sladen and Nicholas Courtney had lived long enough to take part in the 50th Anniversary celebration. It cannot be overstated how important they are to the franchise.
The problem is less Doctor, and more real world. Who? All the actors have aged- Sophie Aldred would probably ve the only possible. Akso a large chunk if the audience wouldn't recognise them.
Moff said in the Q and A after he left the show that’s on the doccy whomst YT channel that he then thought about having McGann when Ecclestone wouldn’t come back, but the Beeb apparently blocked it bc they were worried no on would know who he is - pretty lame excuse. Still, at least we got something with him; and John Hurt too.
@@LionWithAGun I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. He’s worked on multiple BBC productions since Doctor Who which already puts a hole in that one - see Lennon Naked, Accused, The Shadow Line, The Borrowers, Blackout as examples all before the 50th. Then things like the A word he did for 4 years as a production company under the Beeb. He didn’t want to return due to his negative experiences on it quite simply - why’d you think he does big finish now? He doesn’t take umbrage with the show or character these days. Though leading up to the likes of the 50th, he made it pretty apparent he didn’t want to come back after initial discussions with Moffat and was pretty vocal that he wouldn’t come back on screen, still is. Doubly so now given RTD and co are back at the helm.
Would love to see a multipart 60th anniversary with 3 parts.1 part has some of the old doctors and another some of the new and in the third, they all meet to solve the crisis. The villain for this special could be the valeyard and the plot could revolve around stopping the doctor from regenerating into him. The special ends with the current doctor regenerating and it's left unknown if they ultimately stopped his creation or merely delayed it.
The Day of the Doctor holds up to scrutiny unless you get REALLY nitpicky about it. I'm talking Matt Smith having his script on the TARDIS console level nitpicky which doesn't change anything about the overall episode. I would argue that this is actually one of Steven Moffat's strongest scripts. Not quite Heaven Sent level writing but pretty damn close. The Zygons were survivors of the Time War. They weren't just randomly thrown in because the war wasn't limited to just Gallifrey, it was affecting the entire universe. The Zygons were like the 2.47 billion children who were trying to survive. This comes back in Peter Capaldi's era when he points out that they only saw the war from a child's perspective, so all they really knew while it was happening was that they were scared. They didn't understand the full horror which was why Bonnie was naive enough to think that starting another war would give her the validation she was looking for.
I wouldn’t not talk about dimensions in time it makes no sense but it’s got loads of doctors and companions in it so it’s fun I guess. It’s no day of the doctor obviously cuz it’s just awesome.
There was only 1 real companion tho. Rose is just an ai pretending to be her. Should have been Martha to give Clara some perspective on what it's like to love the doctor and how she could still maintain her life on earth while still being his companion. Hell even Mickey being in to give foreshadowing for Clara's next series arc would have been nice. See him talk about rose and how he lost her twice from being involved with the doctor.
@@LionWithAGun I meant we had loads of companions in dimensions in time not day of the doctor. However I rlly day of the doctor and I’m fine with Clara being the only companion she’s great in this I think. I don’t think it needed Micky or Martha but maybe in the future I’d like to see them.
Completely agree with 8 being the War Doctor. God I'm still salty about what could've been. McGann would've been excellent in the anniversary. No offence to Hurt but I really wish this happened.
i agree about saving gallifrey. i also think rtd showed why he killed the timelords too in the end of time. that entire story is about how the timelords USED to be better before the time war and now they're all fucked in the head. the doctor wasn't just trying to take out the daleks. he was taking out the timelords too.
The Zygones are here cause Tennant’s favorite classic villain was the Zygones and Moffatt already planned out the Invasion/ Inversion of the Zygones but wanted to give Tennant the chance to face up against his favorite villains.
Huh, interesting. IIRC, they also changed them to make their shapeshifting an innate power, where in their original appearance, I believe it was just a machine that changed them. Now, they're basically Skrulls (or better, as they can apparently change into animals)!
In the Doctor Who magazines the Zygons were brought back because there was a poll to see which one off classic/revival monster the fans would like to see return, the list includes the Zarbi, Quarks, Axons, Zygons, Terrileptils, Vervoids, Haemovores, Reapers, Sycorax and Vampire Fishes from Vernice. The Zygons won at 57% while the Axons are second at 10% and the rest were less than 10%, the Vernice Fish Vampires are at the very bottom at only 1%.
I would have loved it if when 11 revealed that he forgot about how many kids they killed when 10 remembers and pissed that he forgets it in 400 years would have given a deeper reaction cause of 10 not getting answers to the one spoiler that he acting really wants and forcing the war doctor to have to break them up
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Whinge, whinge, whinge. This is an A+++ episode, period.
Liam Cunningham, Robert Carlyle or Aidan Gillen would’ve been a better War Doctor?
@@Kayjee17 Liam Cunningham, Robert Carlyle or Aidan Gillen would’ve been a better War Doctor?
24:11 I don't think you're giving the Time War solution enough credit honestly. The screwdriver as a metaphor for the Doctor himself - same program, different casing - was pretty brilliant, and it keys into the core of what makes all multidoctor stories work, that he (and us) truly can solve any problem if we work with our future generations and enable them. It's a great lesson honestly
I agree with this comment
I adore the detail on the night of the doctor on how 8 regenates into young war(young john hurt) Implying how he's been fighting for such a long time that it's taken it's toll even on his age. The war doctor begins of big finish shows this as well.
Does any media ever give us a good look at an early War Doc adventure? Such a shame that the couple I know of seem committed to capturing the character we saw onscreen, so we may never get to see him as "young"...
Initially, the War Doctor aging miffed me because it makes a total hash of the Doctor's age, but that ship has long since sailed anyway. Still, remember the temporal weapons used warped time in various ways, it's entirely possible he was artificially aged (like Ten by the Master) and didn't actually reach that aged appearance normally...
@@HandofOmega Big Finish's "The War Doctor Begins" does this
The dumpster fire of the new Dr. Who th-cam.com/video/EoU2E8OUsuE/w-d-xo.html
I do wish Paul McGann was in this special cause i think he would have fit so well
Ben listening to his Big Finish stuff and he’s so good. Really wish he got his second chance on screen here.
Same I'm still praying that he may be apart of the 60th
Agreed, he is very wasted and sorely missed, and would have worked great in the ep...but I admit, it never occurred to me that the BBC might not want him because of the tv movie's reception! If that's true, then it means we probably won't be seeing him in ANY capacity. Shame...he was never going to be given his own series, but a series of mini-webisodes would have been very satisfying.
@@HandofOmega never know what rtd got planned
i had never watched his film but he proved to me in his short that he was more than up for the task. imedietly winning me over
I do love the parallel between multi doctor stories and the multi master story. The doctor bickers with themselves but ultimately comes together to get things done. The master flirts with themselves and ends up stabbing themselves in the back in the end
Also I think the zygon story, while underdeveloped, does work in context. It's like the moment showed the war doctor his future selves normal mode of operation, stopping bad guys
That two parter is prob my fav of doctor who missy and simm are great together and its easily 12s best
The multi masters stories from big finish are really good though still haven't listened to masterful yet
I've listened to ravenous 4 and the master trilogy (you will obey me/vampire of the mind/the two masters)
I don't remember if there are any others besides the missy story with the lumiat
There is that one missy story from her first boxset which I guess kind of counts as a multi-master story, where missy helps the slaves escape or so it seems that's what she was doing
@@TheRealUnkn0wn_289 never tried big finish
The dumpster fire of the new Dr. Who th-cam.com/video/EoU2E8OUsuE/w-d-xo.html
I really like your reading that being locked in the dungeon is analogous to the future Doctors mindset when it comes to having the War Doctor as part of them. While you dismissed the resolution as a 'joke,' I'd actually say it supports your read, since the reveal is that the only thing keeping them locked up is, essentially, themselves and their pride and it takes a Companion unthinkingly blundering in to make them realize this.
That's a really good point, never thought of it that way
Zygons were Tennant's favourite and the one classic monster he wished he could have worked with. That's probably why they used them to entice him back!
Regarding the cop-out and "misremembering that he actually saved Gallifrey", I always viewed it as that he originally did blow up the planet, and in The Day of the Doctor he changes the timeline not having done it after all. But in the OG timeline he did. That's at least how I view it.
The timeline never change. That was really happen.
Either way, the point is that he went through a lot of genuine suffering because of that choice...undoing it, by any means, really kinda cheapens that. Rewatching "Dalek" and other eps touching on the Doctor's trauma now feels completely different, because we now know he really *didn't* do that...but he still thinks he did, so he now went at least of a couple of regenerations tormenting himself over *nothing*, which lessens the power of those stories.
@@HandofOmega again that’s not how I personally view it. He originally did it, then changed what happened. In episodes like Dalek he’s still in the timeline where he actually went through with it. Again, that’s just my take away from the events of TDotD.
@@JTD95 Doesn't really matter, when the Doctors have a crosstime adventure, they lose their memories of the events until they live through it for the last time, after which they can recall the events from all POVs; this explains why the First Doctor didn't know what was going on in The Five Doctors, nor did the Fifth, despite having already lived thru them four times over, until they all parted ways, when he could suddenly remember it all.
So, after parting ways in DotD, Eleven is the ONLY one who gets to know what really happened. This is confirmed in War's dialouge, when he says something like, "shame I won't get to remember this"...So, regardless of timelines, the Doctor is still going to believe he's a mass murderer for two entire regenerations.
And with respect to the characters, the war doctor did choose to blow up Gallifrey, so the character development still lines up. The time between the war doctor choosing to blow up Gallifrey and regenerating is a discontinuity that doesn't exist in the continuity of the 9th doctor, whether the past was changed or Gallifrey was saved all along.
Imagine giving a moment for Tom Baker to imply/state that Gallifrey is safe (which is confirmed later), just for Chibnail to kill all the Time Lords later anyway
But if the Curator is a future Doctor from some point after 13, I can't imagine he'd tell 11 that Gallifrey is out there if he knows the Master is going to nuke it. So we can assume it likely gets restored again eventually.
@@AdrianParkinsonFilms ah, yes, the ultimate doctor who copout😂
The dumpster fire of the new Dr. Who th-cam.com/video/EoU2E8OUsuE/w-d-xo.html
Still one of my faves and rewatchable anytime. Agree that it's a shame the 12th Doctor didn't do much to try to find Gallifrey, but then again it seems they weren't on the best of terms anyways. Tom Baker's cameo had me crying man-tears of joy, so good!
There was that time when Ten said something along the lines of choosing to remember the good things. He hated that they turned so indolent towards others' suffering.
12 has great character arcs but it would have been awesome if the plot arc had been him actively looking instead of them kidnapping him. Then again Heaven Sent was awesome so what can I say.
The Zygons storyline is to show the War Doctor the kind remarkable person he becomes after the Time War. He even tells it to Bad Wolf Girl. His guilt and regret of the destruction of his own world causes him to do better. Also "Cup of Soup".
I love his quote about that. "Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame."
Something I love about John Hurt's casting is that he's an old man, because it really suggests just how long the Time War has been going on for. You just wouldn't have been able to do that if McGann or Eccleston had been in that role.
The problem with it is, we have no emotional ties to the war doctor it has no meaning what he did because we have no prior experiences with him. Would've been far more effective as a 50th anniversary having Paul Mcgann being the bridge between the classic series to the new one in the 50th anniversary. The war doctor is just so shoe horned in.
As far as the saving Gallifrey goes, it's totally head canon on my part (and there's certainly many continuity hiccups involved, but what else is new), but I think it did happen the first time around. I think the War Doctor used the moment and burned Gallifrey and the Daleks. What we're seeing at the end of the episode is exactly what Eleven says it is: Him changing his mind.
Be it timey whimey meddling by the moment or maybe some aftereffect of Clara entering the Doctor's timeline in the graveyard version of Trenzalore, but maybe some factor this time around was just different enough that caused the Doctors to make a different decision in the end. The whole misremembering thing was just history reshuffling around such a monumental change.
Like I said. This is all head canon, but it lets Nine, Ten and Eleven's journey still have all the meaning it did leading up to Day and makes Day not a retcon, but the result of that journey and living with that guilt and second guessing he's spent three incarnations dealing with.
I really like that Clara after effect idea 👍👍
The 50th was top tier Doctor Who. I adore the exploration of what it means to be The Doctor
I've always viewed the memory thing as the Moment's doing. It is clearly much more than a world destroying weapon, and I can imagine that it could make the Doctor think he did it, as penance for deciding to
I actually rlly like Osgood I thought she was so cool being a doctor fan who is actually competent.
I love how his presence amazes her like it would anyone and she doesn’t see the dark sides just the good.
Nah she was the worst. “the Doctor will save me. The doctor will save me” oh shut up. Was so happy when Missy killed her
She’s a pain in the ars*
The dumpster fire of the new Dr. Who th-cam.com/video/EoU2E8OUsuE/w-d-xo.html
Work I don’t know why he is hating coz if the doctor was real, him and his viewers would probably do the same
@@berniet1215 I don’t think I’d be dressing up as him tbh
In the 50th anniversary I think they do actually reference Malcom from planet of the dead. When Kate Stewart is on the bench she says tell Malcom the birds need new batteries(I’m paraphrasing but she definitely says Malcom though)
Also it’s very weird how the older doctor in this trio is played by the youngest actor and the youngest doctor is played by the oldest actor
Also also the zygons want the black archive since it’ll allow them to take over the world in a day(as the zygon who’s taken a random scientists form says). Actual Kate Stewart comes in with osgood and random scientist to then blow up London. Kill thousands to save billions which is the same as the doctor thinking of killing billions to save quadrillions with the moment. The zygons are in London (since they want the black archive for its powerful items) which is why the bomb will only blow up London
I was unsure of the War Doctor, but John Hurt was glorious and so compelling. Idk if any other actor could do it.
The War Doctor was played by John Hurt. William Hurt was the guy who played General Ross in the MCU.
While I enjoyed his performance, I'm one of those fans whose a stickler for continuity and such, so I *really* wish they hadn't messed up the numbering of the Doc's selves (and Moffat's "are you counting bodies or faces?" dodge was non-sensical), which opened the door to all sorts of stuff down the road, so that now the upcoming 14th Doctor is actually the 17th or 18th...It really would have been better if the ep had ended with some "timey-wimey" handwave that made the War Doc disappear from ever having existed at all, outside of the TW, esp since we knew we'd never see him again (but you can still have audios and comics etc)...
@@MappaDoji both gone now unfortunately
@@harryvideoz8863 Yeah, unfortunately. I wish sir John Hurt had done a Big Finish story with sir Derek Jacobi, as the War Doctor and the War Master respectively, before his passing. That would've been awesome.
The dumpster fire of the new Dr. Who th-cam.com/video/EoU2E8OUsuE/w-d-xo.html
An extremely niche criticism that only my mother, a prolific knitter, could make is that it's implied that Osgood's scarf is literally the same scarf the Fourth Doctor wore passed down to her except it's clearly not knitted in the same pattern as Tom Baker's scarf.......apparently. According to my mom anyway.
I really love the concept of the Moment: a weapon that, beyond being conscious, developed a _conscience._ That is to say, a weapon that refuses to be used.
Also, I love how Moffat expanded upon the big event in the novelization by giving a little bit more focus to Capaldi's sudden appearance (he literally walks into the meeting room of the timelords in the book) and by adding in an epilogue/prologue (yes, it's both in one, what did you expect) featuring Whittaker, allowing the two more recent Doctors to be part of this celebration as well.
For me, "Day Of The Doctor" has aged like fine wine. It's an epic episode I've REALLY come to appreciate over time. When I first watched it, I had my issues, but as time has gone on, I've just come to respect the task Moffatt had on his hands, and considering everything the Moff had to do, I think he did BRILLIANTLY! One of the things I like is that he doesn't overcrowd the story. I came to appreciate this after recent ventures, like CW's Crisis On Infinite Earths or Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness. The cameos and references in those feel shoe-horned in, muddling the focus of the narrative. That's why I personally disagree with Moffat's focus on mainly NuWho, with only three main Doctors at the forefront. Overall made for a more focused, character-driven, emotional-rewarding story, that made sense based on the trajectory of NuWho. You still get lots of Classic Who references: UNIT, The Zygons, Tom Baker, The War Doctor's Classical/Modern fusion, ALL THIRTEEN, etc. I feel saying that's a huge issue is a bit harsh. I agree it's a cop-out The Doctor never destroyed Galifrey tho, but that's more BTS reasoning. In the episode, War was going to destroy Galifrey, but Eleven changed his mind. With that, I think we can just say, after many years, after everything he's been through, all the regret, The Doctor FINALLY got to fix things. It's a shame the whole "Finding Galifrey" storyline has not paid off satisfyingly since then, but I think there is HUGE potential in a storyline where Galifrey FINALLY returns into the main universe, meaning The Time War would begin again, and then what will happen?! If I was a showrunner, that's something I'd definitely tackle (Tho I'm sure RTD can do better). Overall, I can see why Moffatt says this was one of the most difficult episodes to write as the showrunner, and it's impressive considering the BTS drama what he produced. Let's hope RTD can do the same (I'm sure he can. I'M SO GOSH DARN HYPED!!! 😍 *Knock On Wood* )
I swear, during Wars regeneration, you can see Eccleston's face slowly take over Hurt's.
I like how War hopes his ears won't be so conspicuous only to there being jokes about 9's ears in later episodes. And the Curator alluding to visiting old faces. 12 revisits a face from his past.
And now 14 looks like 10.
@@cameronbaker97 that face must have been his most favorite! The Doctor did admit to having vanity issues!
Something from the time war that always has me itching for more information is the nightmare child.
The little information we get is almost lovecraftian in nature just horrors even war hardened veterns recall with a bitter sting in their tongue, yet at the same time I don't want anymore information our imagination fills in the blanks.
Bittersweet I suppose.
And he is just a big Dalek.
Harbo gonna be needing a well deserved break after Smith's run. The 50th Anniversary is certainly an episode but I feel the stuff surrounding it is way better when you consider the likes of Night of the Doctor, The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot and An Adventure in Space in Time were released the same month and set an unprecedented high bar for what was ultimately slightly underwhelming story.
Thankfully we can forget about The Afterparty…
Don't worry, all the other 50th stuff will get its own video next year
THIS IS PEAK DOCTOR WHO AND NO ONE CAN CHANGE MY MIND
Love it or hate it, putting Gallifrey in a pocket universe explains how a few Daleks were able to survive the Time War. Instead of the 100% kill rate the Moment would have had, they blew themselves up with a 99.999% kill rate.
Worst thing chibnall era did was destroy off screen all the beautiful work this story did to give The Doctor the ultimate redemption they wanted. Such a cheap joke. Anyways to counter act negavity, bravo to you once again for reaching another milestone in your ultimate reviews, always good to watch
fun fact, the anniversary of doctor who is also my birthday, and this event specifically was my 16th. i had a few friends over to watch it and eat some tardis-shaped cake, then we just played mario party for a few hours after lmao
Ooh, it was on the day after my birthday!
I like this episode, I also really love the book. I agree the show doesn't celebrate all fifty years of the show at the time but I think it does the smart thing of respecting the past and looking to the future, we see that pretty well in the twelfth Doctor's era especailly. I saw the episode while at the fiftieth anniversary celebration and it really was an event for me. Great memories.
Fun fact: I got hit by a dinosaur while there.
The zygon plot does work into the solution for the time war. Both it and the screwdriver plan are used together to figure out they can seal gallifrey into a single moment of time "like a picture". They even say it in the episode.
Regarding the scene where all the doctors are saving Gallifrey, I recall reading somewhere that the 11th doctor sent out a psychic message to all previous incarnations as to what the plan would be. The message would state what the plan was and when to do it, that is why 10 and war react the way they do, with 10 saying “oh I’m getting that too”, as it was the message coming thru.
12 was there because he remembered sending the message out and when it was happening.
I don’t think I can possibly complain about 9 and 8 not being the one who ended the time war, John Hurt is just amazing
Can’t really imagine him fighting a war though ngl
Something I love about this special is the concept of The Moment. The idea of a weapon of mass destruction having sentience and a consciousness to decide whether you can use it is really imaginative and unique. And for it to use a face of which you are familiar with(this special being exempt since it only shows one face, from War's future) is also haunting as a concept.
Would love to see this presented in more sci-fi works, it would be so fun.
I think in DoTD, It executes a really good narrative of showing the journey the Doctor has from cowardly exhaustion of the Time war, wanting to just stop it without weighing yet the full lasting consequences, to acceptance that he will lead a future life of sorrow and grief and that he must embrace that he isn't someone else for making this choice. He's The Doctor, even if his future selves don't believe that, even if he chose to be this incarnation to try and not be The Doctor. a weapon of mass destruction that forces you to accept that YOU are who is deciding this path of genocide, haunting and sad. The Moment is almost like a foil for The Doctor's motivations to be honest. The Doctor wants to help people from their pain, The Moment is helping The Doctor to go towards their pain, that being the genocide of their people and The Daleks. I think also that the experience with The Moment would later inform Capaldi's Doctor when pleading with Bonnie and Kate during that zygon inversion speech, The Doctor acting as The Moment's consciousness for the two boxes of irreversible destruction, The doctor having to be the one to convince to let things. Only instead of talking them into destruction, the Doctor talks them out of it, how he wishes The Moment would have done for him, or anyone else, before he did what he did*.
*Thought he did.
The Moment literally did everything short of physically harming or killing the Doctor to convince him not to destroy Gallifrey.
I hadn't realised until watching this, but the way Clara is paired with John Hurt is not disimilar to the way that Tegan and the First Doctor were left together in the Five Doctors.
"That sound brings hope wherever it goes. To anyone who hears it Doctor, however lost. Even you."
The entire barn scene is a masterclass in writing and acting, but THIS will forever be my favourite line in NuWho.
It means even more when that sound and feeling transcends the show and means so much to the audience watching.
I wasn't expecting this special to focus so much on the Zygons, I mean they get more screen time than the Daleks. More to the point about Classic Who not getting enough representation, an easy fix would be to bring in a Classic companion as the Moment when Eccleston refused. It makes more sense with the War Doctor not having met Rose yet.
I read somewhere that Moffat's original plan for the 50th could have been a battle between Clara and the Great Intelligence within the Doctor's timestream. Basically the Great Intelligence would ruin a moment in the Doctor's history, then Clara would fix it, etc. If true, I'm glad it was scrapped (the 50th special being a Doctor lite episode would not work in my opinion) but it's a rather interesting idea tbh. It would have solved the one major issue with the 50th, that being not enough focus on classic Who.
the 50th was, in a sense, Doctor Who's version of Avenger's Endgame before that ever came to be. The epic scope of it and the war to end all wars. All the characters are great in their parts and how they interact off of each other. The callbacks were great to see and the Doctors trying to make peace with what the War Doctor had done was great to see played out. It was a shame that Paul McGann couldn't have been involved more, hopefully he'll pop up in the 60th somehow. Overall it's a fun ride and a pretty good multi-Doctor story.
I think you completely missed the point of the Zygons in this special. Thematically speaking, they tie into this story centered around The Time War because they are REFUGEES, showing just how impactful The Time War was on the rest of the Universe. It's true that any Doctor Who monster could have been used in their place, but the Zygons' ability to completely transform themselves into the people of Earth make them the most suitable to represent the difficulties and struggles involved when refugees attempt to immigrate to another place. As for their relevance to the plot, The Doctor never would have thought of how to save Gallifrey if he weren't inspired by what the Zygons did.
Day of the Doctor is one of Steven Moffat's strongest scripts. Not quite Heaven Sent level writing but not far off. Stories like The Angels Take Manhattan fall apart if you think about them too much but Moffat knew how important the 50th Anniversary was. He pulled out all the stops and must have redrafted this script countless times until he got it right. Day of the Doctor actually gets better the more you think about it.
The best thing from this special is that we finally figure out the ending to *The Shakespeare Code*
I really like this special, and I saw it twice on TV on November 23rd, 2013, and in the movie theater and when I saw it in the theaters, I was a junior in high school and it was on a school night, and it was the best night ever. I can't wait to see the 60th anniversary.
People say the saving of gallifrey ruins the ninth doctor’s character arc. It’s fair enough if you think that, but my stance is that the Doctor flagellating himself for a genesis he didn’t actually commit is so fundamentally doctorish. He’s got a massive conscience, and just him thinking he did it is enough to set the wheels of trauma in motion
The Moment/Bad Wolf pulled the Doctors into the timewar and caught them up to speed. Then she put them back in their timeline and wiped their memories.
I think the unit/zygons plot ties in with the gallifrey plot because it introduces the stasis cubes, which are what is used to save Gallifrey. I also disagree with the happy ending part, this isn’t really a completely happy ending, Gallifrey is stuck, frozen in a single moment, for now it’s just as gone as if it were destroyed, to paraphrase the episode, the Doctor still has nothing, but he has hope. I also think this is sold really later when the Doctor lies to Clara that he found Gallifrey only to show him in the tardis drifting in space where Missy said Gallifrey was. It is, however, a shame that Gallifrey returns so suddenly.
I completely agree that it would've totally worked with the 8th Doctor. Don't get me wrong, John Hurt was amazing as the War Doctor, but I just wish Paul was given more screen time in the actual show instead of just 6 minutes on TH-cam. Especially considering the fact that he absolutely killed it in The Night of the Doctor. #MCGANNGANG
No, the Eigth Doctor is the Time's Champion. He never work in the Time War.
I fully agree, we have no emotional ties to the war doctor, would far better with the 8th doctor.
The fiftieth is good. The NOVELISATION of the fiftieth is stupendously excellent. Watching the fiftieth with the the context of the novelisation is so orgasmic I’m amazed you’re not buying your copy as you read
Seconded, Moffat himself wrote the novel, and tho he plays his usual "too clever by half" tricks (it's written first-person from the Doc's POV, but doesn't tell you WHICH Doc and constantly tries to surprise you), it's still a great read. The prison cell sequence alone is worth the price of admission (esp as, being a novel, I could reread it, "casting" the 8th or 9th Docs in the War Docs' role!), but the "Save Gallifrey" scene warms the hearts by being able to actually tell us what the various Doctors were doing to save lives at the end (they also have a large tea party in the museum, but we only get to see the tail end of that). If you only read ONE DW book this year...!
@@HandofOmega I’d quite comfortably say it’s one of the most innovative novel I’ve ever read, it’s like his brief was to write doctor who in the style of italo Calvino with a sprinkling of the elegant detail and character work of Frank Herbert. If anything I think it proves that Moffat would make a better novelist than a TV writer, when his imagination is unbound he can loose something truly special. RTD’s rose novel, on the other hand, is a bit of a damp squib. It’s not poorly written, but you realise reading it how much of RTD’s writing is based around momentum and flow, whereas a novel can and arguably should meander a bit more. He’s the master of creating instantly distinct characters but I don’t know if he always knows what to do with them after the detailed characterisation
@@tobylerone4285 One of my favorite bits in DotD is near the beginning, where the Doctor is explaining how he's psychically transmitting the story to the book in real time, so he's aware of us reading it, which he demonstrates by telling "Chris" to stop reading the book at his job and to get back to work...Now, it just so happens that I have a coworker named Chris who is also a Whovian, so I handed him the book and told him to read that passage...😉😅
The dumpster fire of the new Dr. Who th-cam.com/video/EoU2E8OUsuE/w-d-xo.html
First comment so maybe you’ll see this! Just wanted to let you know how much you’ve helped me through your videos (of which I’ve watched all of by this point). I’ve had a lot of long term mental health problems, which also affect my sleep. Your videos have been a massive help with this, real soothing - helps stop my head doing all sorts at night. Keep them coming, you’re smashing it :)
I do think there's elements of the war doctor though that is the essence of the classic series and it's commentary on the modern series if it was represented by a character, particularly when he interacts with 10 and 11.
For me this still is arguably the best hour of the show I've ever had the pleasure to watch. Some other episodes surpass in one element or another but none quite hold together as an entire block like this one does.
I never found the ending too much if s retcon. What's the difference between Gallifrey being lost or destroyed? Functionally lost is the same. It was just a shame Moffat returned to the well and brought it back so quickly 2 years later. It could have stayed lost permanently and we'd be better off for it
I think Day of the Doctor is where Moffat really hit his stride as both a writer and as showrunner. I don't think Peter Capaldi holds a candle to Matt Smith but he did have stronger scripts, which is consistent with the quality that Moffat delivered in the 50th Anniversary. The fact that Smith is, in my mind, still the definitive Doctor despite having weaker stories than Capaldi shows that he's a far better actor than Capaldi will ever be. However, that's a casting issue, not a writing issue. On paper, Capaldi could have been the greatest Doctor of all time but he just wasn't a good enough actor to pull it off. Swap him with John Hurt and I'd be calling Seasons 8 and 9 two of the greatest seasons in Doctor Who history.
@@tomnorton4277 i always thought Moffat hit the ground running in series 5, but then struggled (maybe overworked / lack of time to perfect) to get his ideas across in series 6 and 7. Some great concepts but largely rushed through with some glaring holes. S5 though just worked.
I think Capaldi era is great, but more of a mixed bag. The big concepts and ideas work, but with that ambition come more misses as well. In both cases even when the show mis steps the lead actor salvaged the worst excesses though.
The Peter Cushing movie plot line is mentioned in the day of the doctor target novelisation
Recently rewatched this one, I loved Matt's scenes, as well as Hurt's. David was obviously on his A game too but that was kind of expected. I loved the painting stuff too, interested that there wasn't much stuff done with the concept before in the show.
I absolutely love Day of the Doctor, it's my second-favourite Doctor Who story! I saw it in 3D at the cinema then watched it on TV that night - everything surrounding the 50th just felt so special and epic back then.
It's not without flaws though, as you've pointed out. I've never liked the way Clara interrupts what should have been a beautiful moment of the Doctor coming to accept that he can't always save everyone, only to have him save Gallifrey. Ultimately it ended up being pointless anyway. The "search for Gallifrey" never really happened and then Chibnall just blew it up again off-screen.
I also agree that there should have been more classic Who representation, although the Doctors all coming together and that final group shot were both beautiful, plus Tom Baker's surprise cameo nearly made me jump in excitement and surprise.
Perhaps the Moment could have taken the forms of different companions from different points in their lives? That way they could bring back a companion to represent each Doctor, since most of them are still alive. My line-up would be: Susan, Jamie, Jo, Romana II (since Elisabeth Sladen had already passed), Tegan or Nyssa, Peri, Ace, Charley or Lucie (in their live-action debut), Rose/Bad Wolf, Martha or Donna, and Amy.
Overall though, it's a beautiful celebration.
Comit a genocide is not a beatiful moment. Spycho weirdo.
I remember this aired on thanksgiving and I left the table to go to my room and watch it. Time flies man, I was 9 years old. Easily one of the greatest episodes of the show.
I'll always be fine with the Zygons being here just because it allows David Tennant to interact with his favourite Doctor Who monster.
The Zygon plot is the catalyst. I comes to give crucial plot device for war story and goes away without being used.
Zygons are the ones who use the translate in painting device which is used to save time lords.
But you can't just have it fall on Doctors head and be done with it.
Also it's Kate who wants to blow up London to prevent Zygon to get all the confiscated alien tech. The Zygon Kate is the one who stops it every time.
I do love this episode, it has plenty of flaws I know but I do love seeing 10 and 11 act off each other. John Hurt was great as well despite how shoehorned in the war doctor felt due to being a last minute bodge.
I also liked seeing the return of the Zygons, back when I was a kid in the 90s growing up watching classic Who reruns on cable tv and VHS the Zygon episode was the only episode of who ever that terrified me.
For some reason the classic Zygons really gave me nightmares despite never being particularly scared by any other classic villains.
Also, as an asthma sufferer, Osgood uses her inhaler WAY too much
The only real failing in the DotD is that there is no reason established for why The Moment never just tells the War Doctor flat out about the idea of using the stasis cubes - if that really was its plan all along, implied by BadWolf Girl saying "Now you're getting it!" The Moment's purpose isn't to be a guru or a teacher, it's to be a conscience, and so it makes no sense that it goes to such convoluted lengths just to force the Doctor to figure out the idea for himself.
Apart from that, it's a good anniversary special, and kicks The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors into the ground.
Huh that's true but she also did want thim to se the kind of person he would become if he had done that... But yeah it's still peak.
I'm so fed up with hearing about the bloody Azbantium subscriber.
to be fair, he gets £100 a month from that guy, so i'd be pretty happy if that happened to me too.
That 8th doctor special is some of the best of new who and I'm so annoyed he never got the chance to act alongside the rest of the modern doctors, especially since he is a bridge between the classic and new who era's.
Stephen Moffat wrote a novelization if this episode. It is well worth the read. There is a lot more detail and inner thoughts going on and lots of extra business and extended scenes. Moffat also wrote in a quirky way that will please fans of the timey-wimey. Highly recommended.
I have a theory that the emotional trauma of the atrocities of the time war flashback whenever the doctor regenerates, like their entire lifetimes flash before their eyes. Then the next regeneration's behavior and personality are shaped by that. Like when the 10th doctor asks rose who he is
25:58 The Destiny of the Doctor audiobook miniseries that was a co-production between AudioGo and Big Finish did use something like that to link the stories to the finale, the Eleventh Doctor contacting his past incarnations so they’d each provide part of the solution he needed to get out of the situation he was caught in be it making sure specific people got to the end of the story alive, collecting a particular item the Doctor of the story may have otherwise seen destroyed or running an errand that would pay off by the time the Eleventh Doctor needed it to.
To be fair the Doctor never thought of getting help from previous incarnations during the events of “The Stolen Earth”/“Journey’s End” or “The Pandorica Opens” both events featured universe ending threats. So it’s not too far fetched to think that the War Doctor never considered going back to his previous incarnations for help.
Is it possible that the event in one of the 7th Doctor episodes, where the Hand of Omega is accidentally used by the Daleks to destroy their homeworld, thanks to the Doctor, is what triggered the Time War in the first place meaning the Doctor started and ended the War
While the Unit and Zygon thing does feel out of place, it’s story did give birth to a good two parter with 12 and one of the best Doctor speeches
The "Gallifrey Falls No More" reveal was worth the cop-out. Blew me away, because it was right there in front of me the whole time.
"It's a powerful moment" whyy
Thanks so much for the heads-up about the Fivish Doctors. I didn't even know it existed. Just came back from watching it on Daily Motion. It was hilarious!🤣🤣🤣
@@tvguy61No but it's probably still up on Dailymotion. It's definitely worth a watch
I forgot where I saw it, but I am pretty sure the BBC released a little comic that showed 11 went back in time and uploaded a program into the TARDIS which made the calculations to freeze Gallifrey.So I guess that means all the other Doctors likely saw it and didn't mess with it.
i personally love the time war resolution, without it we would never see the time lords properly again
i was fine with the resolution to gallifrey personally, it's like last of the time lords where, while everything was undone, development still happened to the main characters. the doctor is still who he is because of everything that happened, even if he found a solution down the line. this special was always going to leave a dent on the trauma of the time war and i believe that how it was handled was a good way to have a suitably celebratory ending
the zygon arc also serves as a way to organically introduce the solution to the episode and serve as a narrative mirror to the war doctor's story of having to find another way to forgo genocide. not sure why they picked the zygons of all things but at least it made for a neat moment with the statues ig
I’ve always defended the decision to bring back Gallifrey as it was going to happen eventually it’s to important to the lore if Moffat didn’t bring it back then someone would have
When The 8th Doctor talks to the Sisters of Karn and insists a warrior was needed it makes a good segue to The War Doctor/ 9th Doctor.
I rlly wanna see Paul Mgan come back as the doctor for a full episode I think he’d be amazing.
Can’t he be in the 60th or make an episode with him in.
The only two nitpicks I really have are; there aren't enough cameos and it could do with being slightly longer
I always pictured the time war in a eldritchy way. I could see the timelords and daleks strip mining planets for resources, jumping back in time, setting up a paradox machine and doing it again. The fighting destroys one of those machines and causes a massive paradox destroying that region of space. I view the Could've Been King & Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres to be a faction of crazed and mad individuals that survive the various paradoxes caused by all the time fighting. The end of time makes it seem like both sides had lost control of the war and the very universe was fighting back as it was destroyed. The moment then just resets the universe and leaves the races involved in the war in the old universe to die out. Our universe knows nothing about it except the few races that managed to slip through and keep some legends of it.
That's my quick, poorly explained, ramble.
If the war is so big, why barely see consequences of that in the RTD era?
Here's my defense of the Zygon plotline. The true protagonist of The Day of the Doctor wasn't the 10th or 11th Doctors. It was the War Doctor. This whole episode is essentially the Moment's bid to show the Doctor at his lowest point that he's not a monster. So it shows him his future selves: the hero and the madman, and it allows him to not only witness but participate in an act of peace. Saving lives instead of just taking them. The Zygon plot has a happy ending for everyone involved, and it's thanks to him. This is what motivates him to accept what he has to do. And later, it's what motivates him to save Gallifrey.
60th didnt feel like a monumental episode, just felt like a normal episode a bit less, was just okay. 50th was an amazing episode that i will rewatch alot
Me and my buddy were the only Whovians at the theatre premiere with our Sonic Screwdrivers. Very fun night
1:47 it’s a machine that goes “ding”.
I think my biggest problem with Day of the Doctor is that the story doesn't hold up well. At all. It retcons the importance of the first four seasons story, and the story removed from the time war plotline doesn't really... work?
This is a problem I have with Matt Smith's era in general, where Moffat kinda... doesn't really acknowledge the first four seasons happened beyond "Oh the Doctor is so lonely in the universe he's allllll so alone because he killed everyone else." But... that doesn't even matter anymore. Since Moffat retconned it. Now rewatching those great first four seasons just... the Doctor himself doesn't make sense. His PTSD and war trauma aren't weighted anymore. Because Gallifrey never died. He just kinda forgot he saved the entire planet...??? Like retcons are one thing, but to retcon a well loved plotline that set up all of the first part of the series feels like a huge slap in the face. I just despise it.
I think Moffat in general struggles with large scale stakes and season long storylines, if you haven't seen it, I recommend checking out hhbomberguy's video on Sherlock. I'll give him credit he makes great single or duo episode stories, The Empty Child is one of my all time favorite episodes of the show, but this shouldn't have been in his wheelhouse, or written by him in the first place.
gallifrey falls no more until the master destroy it
I just wish that Elisabeth Sladen and Nicholas Courtney had lived long enough to take part in the 50th Anniversary celebration. It cannot be overstated how important they are to the franchise.
About Billie Piper’s return not her being Rose he could have gotten an actress from the classic series to played Billie’s character.
The problem is less Doctor, and more real world. Who? All the actors have aged- Sophie Aldred would probably ve the only possible.
Akso a large chunk if the audience wouldn't recognise them.
After watching John Hurt’s character in “Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull”, it’s no wonder he was cast as the War Doctor.
26:37 exactly. It happened off-screen for a reason. At no point was Russell celebrating this. Such a bizarre criticism Steven has.
I am so glad I'm not the only one who didn't take to Osgood!
Moff said in the Q and A after he left the show that’s on the doccy whomst YT channel that he then thought about having McGann when Ecclestone wouldn’t come back, but the Beeb apparently blocked it bc they were worried no on would know who he is - pretty lame excuse. Still, at least we got something with him; and John Hurt too.
I mean it's not really eccleston who wouldn't come back. BBC didn't want him back.
@@LionWithAGun I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. He’s worked on multiple BBC productions since Doctor Who which already puts a hole in that one - see Lennon Naked, Accused, The Shadow Line, The Borrowers, Blackout as examples all before the 50th. Then things like the A word he did for 4 years as a production company under the Beeb.
He didn’t want to return due to his negative experiences on it quite simply - why’d you think he does big finish now? He doesn’t take umbrage with the show or character these days. Though leading up to the likes of the 50th, he made it pretty apparent he didn’t want to come back after initial discussions with Moffat and was pretty vocal that he wouldn’t come back on screen, still is.
Doubly so now given RTD and co are back at the helm.
Would love to see a multipart 60th anniversary with 3 parts.1 part has some of the old doctors and another some of the new and in the third, they all meet to solve the crisis. The villain for this special could be the valeyard and the plot could revolve around stopping the doctor from regenerating into him. The special ends with the current doctor regenerating and it's left unknown if they ultimately stopped his creation or merely delayed it.
The Day of the Doctor holds up to scrutiny unless you get REALLY nitpicky about it. I'm talking Matt Smith having his script on the TARDIS console level nitpicky which doesn't change anything about the overall episode. I would argue that this is actually one of Steven Moffat's strongest scripts. Not quite Heaven Sent level writing but pretty damn close.
The Zygons were survivors of the Time War. They weren't just randomly thrown in because the war wasn't limited to just Gallifrey, it was affecting the entire universe. The Zygons were like the 2.47 billion children who were trying to survive. This comes back in Peter Capaldi's era when he points out that they only saw the war from a child's perspective, so all they really knew while it was happening was that they were scared. They didn't understand the full horror which was why Bonnie was naive enough to think that starting another war would give her the validation she was looking for.
Moffat said in DWM at the time that the BBC vetoed McGann
I wouldn’t not talk about dimensions in time it makes no sense but it’s got loads of doctors and companions in it so it’s fun I guess.
It’s no day of the doctor obviously cuz it’s just awesome.
There was only 1 real companion tho. Rose is just an ai pretending to be her. Should have been Martha to give Clara some perspective on what it's like to love the doctor and how she could still maintain her life on earth while still being his companion. Hell even Mickey being in to give foreshadowing for Clara's next series arc would have been nice. See him talk about rose and how he lost her twice from being involved with the doctor.
@@LionWithAGun I meant we had loads of companions in dimensions in time not day of the doctor.
However I rlly day of the doctor and I’m fine with Clara being the only companion she’s great in this I think. I don’t think it needed Micky or Martha but maybe in the future I’d like to see them.
Completely agree with 8 being the War Doctor. God I'm still salty about what could've been. McGann would've been excellent in the anniversary. No offence to Hurt but I really wish this happened.
i agree about saving gallifrey. i also think rtd showed why he killed the timelords too in the end of time. that entire story is about how the timelords USED to be better before the time war and now they're all fucked in the head. the doctor wasn't just trying to take out the daleks. he was taking out the timelords too.
The Zygones are here cause Tennant’s favorite classic villain was the Zygones and Moffatt already planned out the Invasion/ Inversion of the Zygones but wanted to give Tennant the chance to face up against his favorite villains.
Huh, interesting. IIRC, they also changed them to make their shapeshifting an innate power, where in their original appearance, I believe it was just a machine that changed them. Now, they're basically Skrulls (or better, as they can apparently change into animals)!
In the Doctor Who magazines the Zygons were brought back because there was a poll to see which one off classic/revival monster the fans would like to see return, the list includes the Zarbi, Quarks, Axons, Zygons, Terrileptils, Vervoids, Haemovores, Reapers, Sycorax and Vampire Fishes from Vernice. The Zygons won at 57% while the Axons are second at 10% and the rest were less than 10%, the Vernice Fish Vampires are at the very bottom at only 1%.
@@luckystardoomnjeraxivyurie5415 Well clearly chibnall should have brought back the fish vampires to do them *right*, then!
John Hurt and the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who 🔷🔷🔷🔷🔷🔷
I would have loved it if when 11 revealed that he forgot about how many kids they killed when 10 remembers and pissed that he forgets it in 400 years would have given a deeper reaction cause of 10 not getting answers to the one spoiler that he acting really wants and forcing the war doctor to have to break them up