Should You Still Build A Voron 2.4? (LDO Rev C)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2023
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In this video we dive into my experience with the Voron 2.4. We go over the machine itself, what the build process was like, the LDO Rev C kit, and what my thoughts are based on my time with it so far.
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Before I started building my LDO V2.4, I added notes in the Voron pdf manual with all the LDO deviation/extras. That way I could just follow the manual without having to jump back and forth.
Wow! You answered a question I didn’t know I had! Thank you for explaining the difference between the trident and the 2.4. I’ve been looking to build a Voron for along time but I don’t have a community of makers near me, that critical fact that one has the flying gantry is huge! I love your work and wish you great success
Did Canbus and Tap on mine, best mods ever. Canbus was a pain to flash months ago, but gotten way easier. Helped build some for a shop and the cable chains started to shred wiring after around 2500 hours of printing, so the slimmed down umbilical was a huge must for high demand printing.
As someone who owned a v2.4 and a trident, go for the trident, especially if you are considering 250 and 300mm build sizes. This has two to three reasons: build is much easier (no z belt tension, no z drive assembly, no z belt clips), less expensive (one less stepper, one less driver, one less rail), maintenance free z axis when using pom nuts and requires less printed parts. Second reason is build height. That one might confuse as the trident has always 250mm height while the 2.4 ranges from 250 to 350mm. Reality is different. On a 2.4 you roughly miss 40 to 50mm in z when the top panel is installed because otherwise you would absolutely bend the reverse bowden. The reason behind that is that the original frame was built around being bowden extruder, wo you didn't need the extra top space. I personally would even go so far that you miss 50 to 70mm depending how mucb you want to bend the ptfe tube and how stiff the filament is. Meaning a 250mm built trident has more height than a v2.4, a 300mm is equal (ldo trident is actually 300mm in z making it the tallest voron), so only the 350mm spec v2.4 is taller than 300mm. Third reason is speed, a trident can be more easily reinforced on the frame, which is extremely difficult on a 2.4 due to the arrangement of the z belts and belt tensioners. But even without reinforcements a trident performs better, i rebuilt my 2.4 for various reasons to a trident and got a huge recommended acceleration increase, from 7,5k to 8,5k on a 350mm spec (mantis toolhead, cnc x axis), 13% increase. I would rule out different belt tension as it was tuned the same and the graph looked pretty similar. As reason i would suspect the more rigid frame and that the gantry isn't suspened by 4 printed parts.
Personally i dont see a reason to pick a 2.4 in a 250 or 300mm size, the 350mm one makes sense if you nees the taller build space. Otherwise i don't see any reason besides cool factor to pick a 2.4 over a trident
I built a voron legacy 6months ago and I am very happy with it. It is my go to printer where I send the print and forget about it. I do have 5 ender 3 printers and a hurakan but when I print on them I need to sit thru the first few layers and still keep checking regularly to make sure nothing goes wrong mid print. I am now building a bigger legacy with parts from a Ender 3 max because I have some special requirements from my customers where I need a 300x300x500 build volume
Would highly recommend build the decontaminator mod (and find a small brass brush to fit it) and have a small routine for cleaning the nozzle, it's been really helpful in keeping the nozzle clean!
Can definitely recommend TAP as well. :)
Personally, I've been really happy with my 2.4 rev.c kit from LDO. Works great, prints amazing and looks cool :D
Congrats buddy. I LOVE my 2.4, it's literally my favorite printer by a huge margin. Enjoy.
I know you love yours haha. I think that is the printer that by far gets the most screen time in your projects. Its a badass machine. Super excited to have it up and running.
I like my 2.4 RevC kit but I did have to replace the included drive gears for the extruder because the ones they shipped me were out of round and led to filament pulsing (CnC Kitchen did a great video about this a while back). I also had to spend a lot of time getting belt tension set correctly to deal with some layer shifting and consistency issues. But since then, I've typically been running it as fast as necessary to maintain the max flow rate of the revo nozzle. The machine can definitely move faster though, and I think the next step will be adding a higher flow hot end of some sort. But overall it has been a great investment and I've enjoyed the challenge of getting it to 100%.
Great video as always.
I have not build any of the Voron printers, But I LOVE the design of the Trident.
If I would build any of them , it would be the Trident
Tbh I wanted a voron for awhile but I leaned to a ratrig v core because of the bed design and the trident is all I liked about the rat rig and voron put together.
I also love my 2.4 350 workhorse..
I found my upgrade to beacon a super choice.
Also a bit pricy with transport and customs I'd advise you to do it asap.
Thx for your good work
Totally agree on integrating/redlining the LDO mods into the assembly instructions. It’s been the biggest annoyance/trouble with a team build of a 2.4 B/C at my makerspace. The kit came with a Afterburner instead of a Stealthburner extruder and making sure we printed the right parts to finish it was a headache. We’re in the home stretch, we hope to finish it after the holidays.
P.S. we have a pre-assembled Trident we got from a maker who builds them for “fun”-that works too!
Please let me know this builder
For anyone who doesn't have the budget for an LDO but still want the quality that comes with researching community mods to apply by default to a kit, I'd personally recommend Magicphoenix' CBT kit (CanBUS + TAP). It manages to simultaneously be among the cheapest kits and, in my opinion, include the best the community has to offer. Genuine BigTreeTech CAN boards for the toolhead, a Manta M8P with their in-house clone of the CM4, TAP and Nevermore configured by default, with options for Disco sticks, CNC parts, printed parts (functional/decorative), Phaetus hotends, genuine Gates belts and stainless steel rails.
I took a gamble ordering from them and, while they ship from China, I also had no customs to pay for it here in Belgium, since it first arrives to Poland before being dispatched to the home address.
Overall not only is the printer fantastic (but that's a given at this point), but the price paid for the quality that came out is outstanding. Can't recommend them enough, they even hang around in the Voron Discord if you have any question.
Hey do you have an email or some sort I can contact you for some questions about the kit? I'm also from Belgium.
OMG... I love my siboor V2.4 Rev C. Running it since April has been such a blast, yes I have gone from stock to modded, mainly printed parts. I have upgraded to BFIdlers, the GE5C mod, and three different version of Tap. I found I prefer the Dodo3dlab Voron CNC Tap over the Chaotic Tap. Also using the BTT Pi V1.2 with a Spider v2.3 and working flawlessly. I would however love to have a better method of belt tension as there is no mic the same to pick up proper sounds from a phone. This is the one downfall of belted printers. My V.0 also from Siboor was an example of perfect All white frames and white printed parts. Only prints PLA so I am not running a Nevermore, but it does get quite warm lol. My trident is on the way, and my X1C is a great unit but I feel I love the voron line of printers far more, but My Ender 5 pro will always be my true love.... total workhorse
I started with the Trident, and am in the process of building a v2.4. I feel they both have their niches they fill. For an all-around workhorse, the Trident does a splendid job, especially when you factor in that LDO's 300 kit is a 300 CUBE design, so has another 50mm of build height to work with (stock design only has 250mm of build height, 300 cube has 300mm), which significantly reduces the need to go with a 350mm v2.4 if you need that height.
I won't lie, the v2.4 is a sexier looking kit, and the flying gantry is gorgeous, but if the LDO 300 cube kit had been available when I was originally building the Trident, I would have just gone that route (I built mine back when LDO was still beta testing their Rev A kits for the v2.4). Wound up building a v2.4 alongside the Trident because it offers a nice niche that my Trident doesn't fill - larger schtuff, since it's a 350mm build, and will probably have around 315mm of usable height (kinematic bed mount removes some of the stock 330mm build height).
Editing to add: One of the reasons why the v2 has so many more serials is far too many people assumed that v2 was newer than v1.8, which is why the Trident is named, instead of being v1.9. It's also been around a lot longer, but there's been pretty decent growth on the Trident serials after a few months of it launching.
Are you sure? My LDO 2.4 300 maxes out at about 260 on the Z.
Do note: The 350mm model is the version worth getting (for its price point) vs other printers on the market.
When I built mine I got the 350 model, and its quite the monster of a printer.
The Tridents do not have a 350mm version, and is why they are cheaper since their max size is 300mm.
They do now
I've been looking at the trident for a while, but I've recently ran into "The 100" project which is a full 500usd Core XY build with similar performance to the vorons, but I've pulled both into CAD and im going to try and marry them together since The 100 replaces all aluminum extrusion with either 3d printed parts or makes the kinematics a part of the structure. Like the linear rails, rods and lead screws.
I built a Voron 2.4R2 350mm from a kit. It was fairly expensive compared to my other printers and the kit quality was not as good as it could have been. My recommendation is to go with the very best kit you can find. I thought I had, but I really should have done a little more research - it would have saved time and money. The biggest issue now is the bed quality. The bed is just not as flat as it should be which is essential to getting consistent prints. Spend a lot on the bed quality because if you have to replace it later it will also mean replacing the heating pad! All of that said, when I push print and it's tuned-in, I can't stop looking at it! It's almost magical. It's a really beautiful printer in form and function. I use this machine for large prints and for ABS and ASA as it has an enclosure. And I built it - go figure!
But it does take some passion to want to build a 2.4r2 350...
mind sharing which kit you got that you were not happy with
Love my 2.4 from I got it at RMRRF aka I won it, and man its been great once I got the kinks worked out it's my one printer where I start a print and don't worry about it. the Print quality is awesome. Mine has tap love that its made the bed level and gantry level easy.
Just got my 2.4 kit in this week. Printing the parts for it now. I thought about the Trident, but I do not like the leadscrew driven Z, personally.
I built an LDO 2.4 300 back in March and I have been pretty happy with it. I ordered a Trident kit a few days ago, and the ONLY reason I went with the Trident over the 2.4 was that I wanted to build a 250 this time, and AFAIK LDO only offers their 2.4 kit in 300 and 350.
The switching back and forth between the Voron manuals and the LDO docs is indeed a pain in the ass. I doubt if the Voron team is interested in adding tailored instructions for the various kits, and trying to keep up with changes in the kits. So it would be up to LDO to make a custom manual. It's probably not worth the cost increase it would take, given the kit's already relatively expensive.
Actually deciding between a Voron 2.4 and a Voron trident, I always would prefer the Trident. While moving the gantry instead of the heavy bed esp. on bigger sizes seems more intuitive, this can become a problem on further modifications, like adding a toolchanger. If you want an automatic toolswitch to be added, a 2.4 has to move up the gantry for every toolchange or you need a syncroniced z-movement for your toolbay. Seems much more complicated than adding a toolchanger on a Trident.
However, belt driven z to eliminate any z-wobble definitly is a good idea. But it should be possible to use this techniqe on a Trident.
However, as I am interested in a bigger printer with at least 500by500mm² bed (I am into retro computing and want to print keyboard cases and cases for old Commodore Amigas). So the only printer kit I consider at the moment is the RatRig VCore 3.1 at the moment, which is quite simular to a Trident, but available up to 500by500mm².
So I would be realy interested in a comparision between 2.4, Trident and VCore 3.1.
One point bothering me on bigger sizes however is the belt length for CoreXY and the problem CoreXY always being staticly overconstrained, wich can result in blocking and layershifts with bigger designs and heated chambers due to different thermal expansion of materials. I was always fascinated by Ultimakers CrossingRods design. The K4-design using crossing linear rods definitly is an aproach worth a deeper look into.
Over all, the Trident or the VCore 3.1 design seems more interesting if you want to experiment with different kinematics. As the XY-kinematic does not move, you could use a seperate frame for the XY-kinematic and mount it on the top - spliting the printer into two parts, the bottom with the electronics and the z-axis with bed and the x/y unit, wich you can swap between classic coreXY, CrossingRods, CrossingRails or maybe even DoubleCrossingRods - or everything you might want to experiment with. Of course, if you want to go even bigger, you might even go further in dividing the printer into more seperate parts - like seperate units for base (with the electronics) left and right frames (one with one z-holder/movement unit, the other with two), backframe (maybe with a tool-holder for automatic toolchanger) and a top frame with the gantry. All frames stiffened with solid panels, and connected by thumscrews. So you can dissassemble it, bring it through the doors of a normal home, and assemble it quickly in an other room or in a cabinet...
i have only the 2.3 and a mercury wich is closer to a trident and even if the 2.4 is a very great challenge it might not be the best voron to vhoose if you want a quick assembly work but for hobby it's the best printer i ever own great video to modbot keep going :)
i do also want to add, that there is alot of headway getting done making the 2.4 into a toolchanging machine using tap.
Gone the 2.4 way last summer 300 LDO RevC as well.
All is fine except Klicky in heat soaked chamber (works way better at room temp)
During QGL, I randomly get one inconsistent reading (off the others by more than .1mm) exceeding the tolerance and triggering a new set of measurements, sometimes several times in a row, and (rarely) the QGL fails due to too many errors.
I reduced the Z probing speed to 5mm/s but still have the problem (again, this mostly happens after I heat soaked for ABS / ASA)
I'm using the microswitch that comes with the Klicky addon bag included with the RevC LDO kit.
I'm curious about yours, seems different from the stock LDO.
Did you change it? what's your experience? what's the reference of this microswitch? (or is it KlickyNG?)
Many thanks ;)
Can you go into more details about the trident and maybe compare them? Mostly interested in how different the build was.
I just finished my LDO 2.4 last night lol Just gotta get it tuned before I submit for serial
Woohoo! Congratulations 😊. How was the build for you??
@@ModBotArmyMechanically, it was the easiest build I've had so far. That's probably because it was my first LDO kit and the quality from that and others like formbot is miles apart. Firmware, I had a tough time getting QGL to play nice but I got it figured out. I'll post a Pic in the discord when I can get home to it
Software tuning can take a long time on this printers to be right. But if the build is good then you should have a good time.
@@NewmeishuIve had a couple good test prints in PLA, so I'm pretty happy with it so far. Really just need to get my slicer settings tuned, especially for ABS/ASA
I would install TAP and the Galileo 2 extruder on it. Makes live easier.
LDO is always good 👍.
I completely forgot about Galileo 2 when I was making this video. Yes! I absolutely want to try that out.
I have one in my dreams, maybe one day
have you gotten TPU printign to work on the stealthburner?
i seem to insanely struggle with my 2.4 R2
From what I've heard between Trident vs 2.4
250mm - trident
300mm - flip a coin
350mm - 2.4
I don't even think LDO makes a 250mm 2.4 or 350mm Trident kit
what about a video about sovol 6 upgrades?
4:35
This is the same problem with the latest kit from formbot. Between the 3 in 6 out DC, no 5v PSU, and the klipper documentation being slightly better with pictures than voron documentation, AND formbot having their own wiring guide for part of the process, it's a mess.
Personally it's hard to convince me that a stock voron of any kind is the way to go these days. You can get such better performance from a few mods. The voron toolheads in particular are a non-starter.
We have 9mm mods, monolith, XOL, archetype, doom, etc. All of which are going to get. Even not going umbillical in 2023 is absolutely wild to me.
The V2 is a really cool printer that is the baseline for a lot of what the DIY community is doing today. But it's also a 4 year old design in an ever-changing landscape. I encourage any new builder to not limit themselves to that 4 year old design.
RE: Trident vs 2.4. Trident is going to be vastly less finicky to build with the lead screw z and rigid gantry.
Most of the kits today are going beyond stock... especially LDO is adding a lot of mods in their kits.. and you can upgrade it easily..
I've been considering Troodon 2.0 which is a derivation of Voron 2.4r2 :/ Just can't spend the time to build this printer until i have spent the time to build RatRig V-Core 3.1
I just ordered a 2.4 kit over Black Friday. Kinda wonder if it's worth canceling and going trident.
They are both really good printers. 🤔
Yeah. Buy both. 😊
I've been debating between building a voron or getting a vivedino troodon. Now Phrozen appears to be making a voron clone too.
One thing I've experience with my 350 2.4 is the inconsistent Z calibration and ABL repeatability at startup. From other posts I find, this is a common complaint. I suspect there could a few contributing factors. The first being heat soak stabilizing thermal growth can take an hour if you have the patience. Second being the XYZ home sequence happens automatically before ABL. Once everything is up to temperature, ABL needs completed again and then Z re-home should be the last step. Thinking about adding that at the end of the ABL sequence. Any thoughts?
I had first layer issues on mine a few months after I completed the build and spent way too much time troubleshooting before figuring out that my belts needed to be re-tensioned. Been rock solid since
@@voicesarefree I had that thought as well. Not sure how to get all 4 to the same tension. I've heard of the app for phone frequency tone plucking the belt like a string. Is that your process?
I heard about frequency target too, but I couldn’t really figure that out. I probably tightened the belts too much as I just went by feel, but all layer issues I had went away.
I wanted to build a 2.4 and then the bambu came out and I bit the bullet and got one just because I couldn't build a voron for what the bambu costs. The only thing I am missing is the build volume that you can get with a voron.
The belted z was worth it to me, I despise acme threaded lead screws
Intresting🤔, what issue have you experienced with the ACME screw that the belt setup solved?
At last the lead screws from LDO are not a problem. I have both and Z works perfectly fine on both.
@@RaoulEvilD misformed leadscrew on my cr10s back in the days. A bunch of z binding, too. Back lash due to shitty nuts and the belt is so much faster, I don't even see my 1mm hop
The bed on the tridend is attached to linear rails. The screws are floating and I suppose better quality as the creality stuff.... and it is not a bedslinger @@runklestiltskin_2407
I’ve been thinking about getting a Trident. The build doesn’t have me to worried but the software end definitely does. I’ve struggled with getting software to work on simpler printers and I believe most of my issues are do to my computer and lack of knowledge. Does someone offer a pre programmed for a Trident?
The Voron team has default Klipper configs for all of their printers. I haven't looked lately, but the most you would need to do would be changing out the probe section if you don't use the default inductive probe. If you go with a klicky probe, there is only a little configuration that needs to be done, and it is straight-forward. I haven't done a TAP, so I can't say how difficult it would be to install, but that is what the discord is for - getting help and asking questions.
I don't think that the TAP will work on the Trident, only on the 2.x series because the bed isn't stable enough. So the V0.x, Trident, and Switchwire can only use the clicky probe, or an inductive probe for bed leveling.
TAP will work with a Trident, but not a 1.8
Voron vs ZVbot is what I want to know. Zvbot with its awd and water cooled tool head option with cpap cooling vs voron stealthburner. Which one has better speed and quality
I will do a video on the VZBot as well. VZBot build was much more involved, it was a lot more blazing your own trail. Speed by far my VZBot outperforms my 2.4 accells, cooling, and flow. It has taken a bit more time to get the VZBot dialed in though and it likely still needs some tweaks.
I ordered a Tident kot from Formbot (it comes pretty stock) since the build looked a bit easier ,😋
But I'm still debating on which mods to implement, any recommendations? 🙃
TAP asap and later on a Galileo 2 extruder.
@@Newmeishuformbot kit comes with tap
canbus is a nice upgrade
Canbus, or USB toolhead board.
A different toolhead with better cooling. XOL or Archetype are good examples.
When you build, flip your Y rails to the top. This will allow for toolheads like Archetype Mjolnir.
@@Newmeishu thanks for replying. Abs tap oder cnc tap?
Let's say you could get a Voron Trident / 2.4 already built and calibrated for the same price of a X1C, what would you get and why?
Do the AWD Monolith mod!
Cereal wen? 😉
Also, those chains on Trident are flipped 🤣
I need to get a serial for 3 Vorons 👀. Haha I know Steve told me 😂. I told him I would correct it but I’m going CAN soonish. I called it out in my stream though. I swore I double checked the build guide but apparently not lol
In my opinion a bed dropper is better for timlaps
Where did you find the LED PCB at?
The ones that are pictured are from Siboor.
What's the advantage of PCB LED? Heat dissipation? I adhered my strip to a very thin piece of scrap aluminum. You could cut an aluminum can in a spiral, or build a stack of heavy aluminum tape. The adhesive on aluminum tape is generally rated for temperatures far in excess of the hottest chamber temps you'll ever see, e.g. 100c++ (check though. do not blindly assume your tape is the same)!
OR since voron made the guide and the kit is OFF that, ldo can remake those pages and put together their own guide.
That’s what I meant. I wouldn’t expect voron to adapt it into their official guide. It would be LDO forking the guide for their kits.
never understood the need to get a serial
Approximately how many hours takes the build?
Ooh that is tough. With streaming and distractions it makes everything take sooo much longer. It will depend on your focus/experience. I would say fast would be 20 hours, but anywhere between that and 40 feels realistic.
@@ModBotArmy Thanks for the answer…considering building one with kids I need good time planing
“Can’t go wrong with either the 2.4 or trident” is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. 2.4 definitely takes more skill to assemble and get right. Not to mention the 4 belts for z which is alot more annoying to maintenance
I've had my v2.4 for 2 years, moved and left it in a garage for a few months, plopped it in my new workshop basement and hit print on it, 0 prep and recalibration, it worked no problems, been working great ever since, still haven't reran input shaper on it.
i built both but sold em and now i use a Bambu
Interesting. What's your experience so far in terms of comparative print quality & speed ?
I am currently building a The 100 :)
Sweet! I have definitely looked at it a few times.
I thought you were going to punch the 2.4
Lol I try to avoid punching printers as much as possible. The VZ was the exception to this.
so now modbot needs a Legacy so he has them all
👀 would need to self source that one I am sure
@@ModBotArmy funsoor has a kit i belive or you join speedy and me and build baby legacy number 3 with help of fabreeko
"Lets GET RIGHT INTO THIS VIDEO" this is cringe man :P but your content is great.
Has ratrig fallen out of favour
Plenty of people love rat rig, voron just seems to have won the hearts of people. Considering how many core xy printers there are
You SHOULDN'T, you should buy a LDO Voron Trident instead. That gantry alone is a hell of a headache to calibrate and the reason why Trident prints are better.
Trident is way more noob friendly, better printing quality, it just works.
I have LDO Voron Trident 300mm and I'm building a LDO Voron V0.2 S1 kit.
Flimsy printer with mediocre performance... that C shaped flying gantry is all show no substance
Trident is a much better platform.
So, should you still build a Voron?? This is just a commercial. No price/performance compare to anything....
It’s not even a question of “should you build a voron” rather a “should you still build printers” in general.
With Bambu lab x1 people will get much better quality, speed and features then outdated overpriced voron with heavy printhead and less features.
1x 2.4 350 kit with good quality components will cost like 2x bambu lab p1p.
Not a popular opinion among, but I agree. Even though I love to tinker and build stuff, the Voron kits are overpriced compared to what you can get from Bambu these days. I think a Voron parts kit would need to be around $500 to be competitive. If I am going to spend over a grand, why not get the X1 with multimaterial support out of the box?
@@christopherkelley2061 good 2.4 350 kit will cost around $1000.
We can get 2x bambu lab p1p
The bambu lab is not a bad printer ... ok if you don t want to build a printer yourself.... but it is still a cheap copy of a Voron ( as stated from Bambu lab itself) ... build industrially for a customer market.
I also highly doubt that it will last for years... it requires more maintenance as a Voron,
good quality? .... for example, the bed on a good Voron is 10mm thick pure aluminum... and heat resistant... the bambu lab one wraps often....
parts are proprietary,
you can't use ist without cloud ( on the long term and not speaking about the overpriced E variant)
It is a lot louder as a good Voron ( I can barely hear my 2.4 working 2 m away from me at good speed)
it is poorly isolated... the chamber temp in a voron will be 10-20 ° C higher
more features on a bambu lab? --- good laugh .. they have just copied klipper, prusa slicer and Voron... with the AMS being the only highlight... Vorons get 1-2 upgrades per year
Size... bambu... 256mm... Voron s starts at 250 mmm usually (V0 except) and are usually 300 or 350 mm big...
price ? .. somehow... if you compares a smaller printer with printers double the print volume.... and better, non proprietary parts... you get what you have paid for... and I think that bambu lab will rather sell you a new printer model in 2 years as upgrade yours.. for a smaller price....
speed? not really... the printhead may be heavier but the motion system is build to compensate for the weight ... and at the end of the day your hotend will tell your how quick you can print ... and you can put some big ones in the Vorons... Flow matters...
and so on… the user case will determine what printer you should buy.
Merry Christmas @Pasha! Dying laughing at the response to your post! The 3d printing community is about more than 3D Printing! The work up until recently by all the amazing engineers both home and professional is what lead to Bambu labs existence! I will be buying the mini soon because well, its amazing! However, building the Voron tops my list because im an engineer! The evolution of corexy and work by so many within voron and rat rig is just incredible and its at theheart of why I dig it so much!
@@TheJacklwilliams rat rig is much better and interesting imho. + it has 2 official idex mods