I Reported this Close Pass | What Exactly Happened?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2023
- This is the first ever time I've reported anyone to the Police for a close pass. In this video, I explain why I took this decision and I also look into the distortion of 360 cameras.
Dash Camera Affiliate Links.
Car - Viofo - viofouk.co.uk/ashleyv10f01621...
Motorcycle - Innov - innovv.co.uk/ashley1nn0v13703...
Motorcycle, Bicycle and Equestrian - Techalogic - techalogic.co.uk/ashleyt3ck41...
Social Media
www.ashleyneal.com
/ ashleynealdrivinginstr...
ashleysanalysis@gmail.com
Amazon Links
Sony a6400 Camera - amzn.to/2xVCrn0
Sony A7C Camera - amzn.to/3JUvUIa
Tascam DR-10L Microphone - amzn.to/3M8P0fd
Sony FDR X3000 Action Camera - amzn.to/2YVoPDh
He undertook you at a really high speed. If you'd done another shoulder check and faltered on your lane change you'd have been underneath him. Likewise if you'd been just a little faster and reached the bus sooner, again you'd be underneath him
The camera distortion would have also increased the perceived speed of the van.
@@peterthompson9854 even so, check the speeds at which peds and cyclists are likely to die from collisions. It's lower than most people think. This was a very dangerous manoeuvre.
@@peterthompson9854 Even if it distorts the speed, just look at the speed the other cars has when he undertakes them at an intersection which you can see in the top right camera view, the van was doing probably something like 50 on that 30 road.
_But your honour, my client needs his drivers permit for his job._
Problem solved.
@Peter Thompson it distorts distances, but does it distort speed?
As a cyclist, motorist and a walker who lost friends to idiots like this, they need to be reported. I regularly report and submit videos, not because I get off on seeing them prosecuted but because they really need to change their behaviour. I joined Mersey Metropolitan Ambulance Service after leaving the RAMC. Over 4 decades I have attended more fatal and serious Road Traffic Collisions than is healthy to recall. I have seen incidents and tried, in vain, to save the victims that resulted from another's sense of entitlement over that person to dominate the same road position. No matter where you are going or what you are trying to do, ask yourself is it worth killing to do? The driver of the van could have clipped Ashley, resulting in him falling and his head going under the back wheel. To the doubters, I have seen this scenario. We can get there in minutes, we can medivac in a helicopter but we can't turn back time. The helmet will not save the victim, even if the vehicle is the lightest but this is nothing more than a single example. To go through them all, would amuse the fans of the gory but serve no other purpose. Give pedestrians and cyclists the maximum amount of space you can, slowing down multiplies the space. Endangering a more vulnerable road user than yourself, is morally wrong and breaches the Highway Code.
Well said.
Hi do I need to do a should check before exiting the roundabouts, is checking mirrors not enough? Would it be a serious fault??
Well said. Overtaking cyclists is probably one of the riskiest manoeuvres. When I overtake cyclists I do it only when there's enough space and space includes also the one after overtaking. My rule is that I go back to the lane when I see cyclists entirely in my left mirror (basically, I must see whole bicycle and person safe and sound first) so I need to have enough space to execute overtaking in the first place. This way I'm not cutting in front of the cyclist. Also, since cyclists are a lot slower, I try to control my speed better. Usually, I slightly slow down, don't revv the engine (some drivers do, anger management issues), don't accelerate rapidly but rather smooth and keeping an eye on the cyclist. I know some people say that overtaking should be quick so the cyclist is quicker behind but from my experience as a cyclist, I prefer drivers who overtake me slower (no sudden gust of air that may push me off my balance, especially when those are larger cars) and more in control.
❤
"a positive outcome" means likely "words of caution", case closed, no more paperwork
still its nice to see it is actually possible for video from a bloke on a bike can actually be presented without flashy graphics, confusing zoom effects and selective editing
good job, yet again :)
I hope that a driver education course would have been offered to the idiot in the van.
out of the about 5 I've reported, the only reply I got was about a Merc speeding, undertaking and tailgating on the M18, and they said they got a safety awareness course. That was about 2yrs ago, and I've not done one since.
@@DashCamSheffield don't blame you, the police seem to view such reports as an inconvenience at best, there will be reasons related to chain of evidence, cameras not clearly showing the driver etc so basically they can approach the vehicle owner but short of a confession the chance of conviction is probably low enough they just drop the whole thing
road law is basically now a mix of "decriminalised" or "enforced by camera", chances of an actual patrol getting involved is pretty low
issue is not so much the lack of any effective consequences when caught so much as the near zero chance of being caught
@@aleopardstail I think you'll find that how these reports are dealt with depends on the Police Service concerned. After all the Met seem to have a driving standards unit using just for CyclingMikeys video evidence of wrongdoing.
@@michaelgurd7477 genuine lol
Welcome to my world Ashley. I agree that most drivers show some respect but despite my hi vis waistcoat and gloves, lights always on and careful riding, there are some people who simply don't understand or don't care how frightening this can be. It happens most frequently when being overtaken around bends, where drivers want to overtake but can't see round the bend, so stay close to me to avoid any oncoming traffic. It also happens a lot when I have to overtake parked cars, I look, signal and maneuver, yet the impatient still want to get in front and to the next red light before me. Having said all of this, most drivers are understanding and I always give them a thumbs up, to say thanks.
I also see passes on bends where drivers give room. But if car were to come around from the other direction they would have to swerve right back into me to avoid a head on. And if a lorry came round it would very dangerous.
I had the whole Family in the car doing 50 in a national speed limit road, I had to slam on because a van overtook a cyclist on a blind bend, on a double white line section right over on my side of the road, he pulled back in and I don't know how he didn't take the cyclist out. It's difficult to estimate but I reckon he was doing in excess of 70. Terrifying for everyone.
I love it when I give way to a cyclist and get a little wave. It’s how it should be cause I know by giving way that cyclist gets to where they need to go safely and to me in a car those few seconds won’t make much difference cause I know at some point I’d have to wait at a set of red traffic lights so any advantage would have disappeared by not being considerate.
@@A2KLAU I had a cyclist say thank you to me for waiting to turn right at a set of lights, the correct thing to do. It shocked me to get a thank you but then realised many vehicles probably chance it turning right then pass in front of the cyclist rather than wait the two seconds for them to pass and join the same queue a little further up the road
It's very nice to hear from a considerate cyclist 👏👏👏👏safe journeys 🤞
One thing I've learned over the years about dash camera footage is this; if it looks close on a distorted camera lens, it was very close at the time of the event!
It was a close pass but I think it was also a risky and dangerous pass. Would that van been able to stop if someone walk out from in front of the bus?
This is really more of an issue for me. 1m or 1.5m, who cares, it was a really stupid place to overtake at all though.
That's why I've often passed in the middle to prevent such problems
But the real issue is poor overall driving standards
Standard 'punishment pass'. Van driver clearly annoyed that Ashley took up an early and prominent road position. Aggression being displayed here rather than mere incompetence. I'm glad that Ashley has reported it and is beginning to understand why regular cyclists don't brush off this sort of incident.
It was the very definition of illegal undertaking, and done in a very dangerous manner, hope he got points and a fine otherwise he won’t learn.
@@thomascarroll9556 Even with points and a fine they still don’t learn. I know someone that has been caught speeding 3 times in the last 12 months…9 points on the license and is currently worrying that they went through another speed camera 🤦♂️
Thank you for addressing the distorted camera angles, you did exactly what needs to be done on these types of videos.. go onto Google Earth and measure the distances to show a true reflection of the situation.
The biggest concern I have aside from the closeness of the pass is the fact the driver didn’t appear to ease off the accelerator or apply the brakes at any point through that clip and just decided to undertake with a parked bus and lanes merging. I wonder if the driver performed any basic checks before switching lanes as well?
I am seeing a small increase in the minority that make our roads more dangerous recently and hopefully that trend stops and the numbers become less again
Glad it was a positive outcome for you 👍
Yep, this driver definitely didn't make it a non event. Some people just want to make a point! I had someone overtake me on a bend with a lorry coming the opposite direction on a single carriageway (I was in my car with L plates on) if they had done it 10 seconds later they would have crashed into the lorry!!!!
@@picklestheswift There are some shocking drivers out there and the best you can do is learn for the signs of them (and I am not talking about a German badge on the front of the car). There is no general rule of those types of driver but as you gain more experience the spider senses start tingling with certain vehicles
Got some footage for Ashley of someone overtaking a learner at traffic lights as they are making a right turn. Complete disregard for them 😡
I am seeing drivers giving cyclists a lot more space since the HWC changes and seeing longer queues of traffic to pass them. Drivers are being delayed more by cyclists as a result, but cyclists are safer and most drivers don't seem to mind too much.
If the van driver would have slowed to go past Ash, they'd have had difficult getting out past the bus, it seemed fairly tight as it was. Definitely a poor decision from the Van given Ash's actions.
@@peterthompson9854 On the other hand every cyclist is one less car sat in traffic in front of you.
The experience from other countries is that the more people can be encouraged to cycle the less congestion there is and the faster car journeys become. Half of all car journeys here are short and within easy cycling distance.
@@smilerbob are you going to send the footage in to Ashley?
I actually think the distance he gave you wasn’t the main issue, because the black car afterwards was also around the same distance away.
The issue here IMO was the excessive speed, aggressive driving and undertaking when it was absolutely not a safe thing to do.
Completely agree. The camera distorts distances so it may have been closer than it looked, but Ashley was pulling out to pass a parked bus. He indicated well in advance too. The van driver saw the same hazard, chose to accelerate towards the problem & passed a cyclist on the left. It is not uncommon for a cyclist to swerve to avoid a pothole either. The van driver gave no margin of error for this.
I agree. The speed and behaviour were more serious issues given the fact he was driving into a closing gap with every increasing risk.
They're both issues
Just a slight correction to how you’ve measured that width and distance. If you’re sat central in a 3m lane then it would actually be closer then 1.5m to the white line. That would be the distance from your wheels, but that’s the narrowest point of the bike. If you go from the widest point, which would typically be the handlebars, then even on the white line would put it within that 1.5m limit. A passing vehicle would want to be comfortably within the next lane on order to pass safely. But regardless of how you measure it, that van was far too close, especially considering the speed he seemed to be going.
Exactly so!
Yes, I feel Ashley did himself a disservice with the lines as it was closer than they'd suggest (for the reasons you presented)
Yeah, handle bar on a bike like that is probably 50-60 cm (like mine), so with the van ~1 m from the wheel track that's at best around 50 cm from Ashley's arm... at speed! Horrible driving.
@@unsafevelocities5687 I love it when a person's comment and username tally up!
*than
You could tell by the position they took driving in the middle they only had one thought get past you regardless of anything else. I often hear when drivers want to have a chat with me after something like this (only happend 3 times but it's the same point each time) that I should have been more over as in it's my fault for not riding in the gutter I usally take what would be posisition 1 in motorcycling terms.
You're level of calm is great something we can all adopt as rage is just fuel that proves you wrong even when you're right.
You are not riding a motorcycle though, they keep up or are faster than most traffic on these types of road
@@paulstevens9409 He didn't say he was riding a motorbike.
@@paulstevens9409 you know where posistion one is right?After that it's gutter full of crap and things to give you punctures. I think that's more than considerate don't you?
@@paulstevens9409 it’s irrelevant- there are two lanes, that’s plenty of room to safely pass. If you’re not able to safely pass a cyclist on this sort of road then you shouldn’t be passing them regardless of where they are sitting in the lane
The scariest close passes are when you know there isn't room for the pass but you can hear the vehicle getting louder and not slowing. You're bracing yourself thinking "are they really going to pass me hear?"
what gets my goat is when the road is wide enough to pass safely, but they still feel the need to pass close and there is no oncoming traffic
💯 giving 1m when they could give well over 1.5m does my head in.
what you can do is submit a freedom of information request asking of what enforcement actions were taken (i.e. FPNs etc) for that patch of road, date and time. It's a roundabout way, but they will have to let you know of the outcome. You should get back something like, 26 year old male was offered and took a fixed penalty notice.
I can't imagine they would do anything. If there is clear room to drive a van between the bus and the cycle, it begs the question. Is the cyclist's position wrong? Note:- I'm just asking the question?
@@delcat8168 Cyclist pulled out early and wide because that is how you are trained to do it - expecially around a bus where pedestrians sometimes immediately try to cross. A car would normally follow the same path. The van was most likely breaking the 30mph speed limit, undertook, passed too close and was also not thinking about pedestrians coming off the bus. Typical white van driver, really. What do you drive I wonder.
@@delcat8168 "If there is clear room to drive a van between the bus and the cycle"
Ha ha ha ha ah ah ahahahah haaahhhaha hahaha.
idiot.
I used to cycle to work a lot but I've reduced it recently. When you cycle every day, repeated close passes like this have a psychological impact over time.
I think that's worth bearing in mind when looking at cyclists emotional over the top videos about this subject, it's just not the same as when it happens when you're driving in a metal box.
Yup, I used to cycle to school, then college, then uni, then work. These days, with 2 kids and no off-road route, there's no way I'd risk it. Too many impatient people on the road who are either too stupid or too arrogant to care.
I remember how joyful I was when I bought a Vespa - I loved riding it - until the 3rd time of being hit by a car. Then I was too nervous at every junction, thinking has that car seen me - will it pull out?
I'm driving a car again - but I would happily switch to a Scooter if I thought car drivers had improved their driving skills.
There are probably many people like yourself who would cycle if there were far less (or preferably no) close passes. That is why it's important that cyclists report these incidents, so that the drivers at least receive a warning letter and improve the way they overtake cyclists. Although segregated cyclelanes would be a solution, realistically there is very unlikely there will be funding to achieve this on a high proportion of roads for decades and so cyclists will be sharing road space with drivers for the foreseeable future.
Yes. This close pass in a 1.5 hr ride, would imply it would happen 2-3 times a week for commuter
@@southwirralcyclist1986 It would also help if there wasnt so many entitled people on the road, and yes I am talking about cyclists too.
If people are scared to use the roads why don't they use the cycle lanes and paths provided.
I know they don't have to but it would make them feel safer.
My mom will not drive on a motorway because she is scared but is allowed to.
Love these cycling vids, really like you talking through your risk assessing. Also thanks for showing the process for reporting. On the van, he looks like he was quite close to clipping you with his mirror, which at that speed could have been fatal.
It's that 1% plonker you met Ashley - I had someone do similar to me only touch off my knuckles many moons ago - I caught up to them in traffic and you want to see them turn to a quivering wreck when I asked them calmly to explain their thinking ! With an apology I let him off and told him I had a wife and kids who depended on me.
I've done some speed calculations using the road markings. Ashley was ticking along at 17mph at the point where the van undertook doing 40mph. I really hope the police action was more than 'words of advice' or 'foreign driver, no further action'.
They should be required by law to tell us the outcome. Makes no sense to hide it.
@@andrewnorris5415 with the met police they'd normally tell me if they take action like they will send the registered owner a letter of intended prosecution. They always say they won't let me know what happens next unless the person reported decides to go court which all my submissions I never had to go to.
@@zaink7037met police😂
@@andrewnorris5415 bcos it's none of your business. There was no injury or harm caused, just a close pass. The person reporting is not entitled to that info.
If your calculations are correct, the correct passing distance over 30mph should be 2 meters, not 1.5m, so making the close pass even more dangerous
You're wearing a helmet and hi-viz, but no gloves. With 20+ years cycle commuting, five into Central London, I've seen my fair share of people coming off their bikes. Those that weren't wearing gloves had their palms shredded. If you fall over walking or cycling the instinctive thing to do is put your hands out, and gloves will provide some protection. If you come off your bike your hands are more likely to come into contact with the road than your head.
Isn’t that my choice?
@@ashley_neal absolutely, same as wearing a helmet.
@@ashley_neal wow mate, he's simply giving you some advise. God forbid someone tries to teach the infallible teacher. Just makes you look like a prat
Love that you're putting out cycling content, really need more drivers to experience cycling on our roads to understand this
I cycle(and drive) and I record all my rides on a GoPro and submit any close passes etc to Operation Snap. Out of over 20clips I've sent in only 1 did not have action taken. Some were bad enough to go to court. I live in a coastal rural area which is quiet certainly compared to a busy city but close passes still happen.
Unless these incidents are reported behaviour will not change so I urge all cyclists to buy a camera(cheap one will do as long as clear enough), attach to bike and record your rides.
I hope you get the stitches you deserve as a professional snitch 🤦🏻♂️you're just helping to extort people as I bet everyone there got a fine but no impact to their driving.
Yes many need to give cyclists more room but ratting people out so they can have their wallet attacked even more by the government is wrong.
@@davesmith9104 Lol "professional snitch".
Can't you understand this is done to help prevent accidents and deaths? Not to generate income for anyone but to save cyclists from idiots in cars. From your comments it's blinkered people like you who need educating.
As for no impact on their driving, well if someone close passes a cyclist and gets action taken against them because of it then if their driving behaviour doesn't change as a result then they must be pretty thick wouldn't you say?
Steve Douglas I completely agree with you. Reporting these menaces keep all of us safer and points should be issued to these people, as well as fines.
@@davesmith9104 Not wrong all, should be less concerned about their wallets and more focused on safe driving.
@@mikewade777 I said people do need to drive better, but stand by the nonce in the first comment definitely needs to turn the camera off and focus on himself. I guarantee he's being more of a knob just because of the camera. Especially then being a snitch.
Enjoying the cycling videos Ashley. I started recording my daily commutes with a helmet cam and have recently started being a bit more vigilant when it comes to reporting passes to the police. Every one of my reports resulted in a fixed penalty notice, I felt a bit like a grass at first but then I thought I can be a grass or I can be underneath a van on the way home. Folks need to realise they can't get away with such poor driving, there are eyes and cameras everywhere!
I still record on my daily commute, but even with the new rules I seldom report anymore. There is a least one incident a day and it's just becoming a tedious exercise. I now only report those that I consider 'exceptional' cases that have genuinely put me in harm's way.
How do you know a fixed penalty notice has been issued though?
@genuine_legend You get a reference number when you submit your evidence and then an email advising whether a NIP has been issued or not within a week or so.
After a few months, you can follow up and ask the outcome.
I wouldn't feel guilty about sending videos in. The police decide whether the motorist did anything wrong and take the appropriate action, not you. This is exactly what they would do if they witnessed the incident first hand. Most of the videos I send in result in a warning letter rather than a FPN, but I'm perfectly happy with that, as my priority is in getting the driver to improve their driving and a warning letter should be sufficient to achieve that.
“Out for a 1.5 hr ride”. By that stat, commuters would face this incident every couple of days.
I once had a close pass from a van that was actually an interference pass, whereby his passenger side door mirror just clipped my shoulder. Luckily for me, I stayed upright. This was many years ago, before the use of head cameras. However, I caught up with the van in the traffic queue ahead and had (polite, I think) words with the driver. He apologised and said that he had no idea that he had actually made contact with me. 🤔
He must have known how close he was, even if he didn't know contact had been made.
1 ton of metal versus a 70 kg (average) human, no wonder they didn't feel a thing. That's reason enough for me to have a reflector arm sticking out the side, they're not touching me without changing a door panel or 2
What you can do to calibrate your green arrows more accurately, is to place some measure meters around your bike and then edit in your arrows accordingly. Like the 1.5 meter lines.
Good video! Looking forward to more cycling videos like this/close passes to educate drivers, really good!
A quick check of the reg number shows that this van was stolen on 20/03/23. Not exactly sure how the police can say they have a positive outcome, unless they somehow found the van and arrested the driver for handling of stolen goods.
The incident was on 10/02/23.
Great video. As I was thinking to myself while seeing the footage, ''sure enough that looks kind of close indeed, but that lens distortion isn't great to fully appreciate the incident'', you did a great demonstration on top of it.
We need to normalise sending video evidence to the police about driving infraction. Of all kinds, even pavement parking.
Looked like a punishment pass to me. Could be wrong, could just be an ignorant driver. Either way, these people don’t care.
They don’t think about what COULD happen. Van driver isn’t looking at a human being with a family. He’s looking at an obstacle that he absolutely must get in front of as soon as possible regardless of how dangerous it is.
Even though he’s only saving about 30sec compared to waiting for a safe pass.
I’m glad you reported. Although he most likely just got some points and a fine at best. Which means he’ll probably keep driving like this until he kills someone.
To show the distortion effect, it might be better to just sit on your bike next to a stationary white van and measure out a series of distances from it.
I have no doubt that was intentional by the gimp in the van.
I have been driving over 55yrs including bicycles, motorbikes and cars. I do consider myself a driver that is aware of the issues facing two wheeled vehicles in all road conditions after my own experiences, however watching many of your videos I consider myself a better driver for taking them onboard. I'm not putting myself up as a good driver, just one who is prepared to continue to learn. After all in my 2 wheeler days there was a lot less traffic and motorbikes were generally faster than the majority of cars so were usually in front. (I'm not going into speed limits here 😉). Thanks for trying to keep us all safe.
I think the van would have done this even if you were in a car. It was travelling significantly faster than the rest of the traffic and actually undertook the Mercedes at the traffic lights. This looks like a combination of a determination to be in front of everybody and probably a perception that you cut him off (even though if he was travelling at the correct speed you would have had plenty of room to change lanes).
Car and van drivers don't care I was close passed yesterday and the car clipped my handlebars which nearly knocked me off. The car didn't stop so demonstrated they didn't care they'd probably nearly killed or maimed me so no option but to report it.
It's easy to be brave when shielded by a tonne of metal.
Top work Ashley, thank you for highlighting this.
It’s a shame the police did not disclose what punishment the van driver got. I’d love to know as it more than a close pass. Undertaking and at some pace as well. Definitely a ‘without due care and attention’ and points.
It would of been three points £200 fine or more. Probably a fixed penalty notice. I'd think they have had incidents before hence no driving course offered
No action taken, passed to civilian staff, standard letter sent considered positive, report closed, police don’t investigate car theft or burglaries, same with this.
I agree. If it was clear that the the process worked then it would encourage people to do it. People will be less willing if they get little or no feedback.
Driver probably argued that cyclist pulled out in front of him. Bad drivers are like Tories, always blame others for their mess ups.
Driver training course. Perhaps no action. Why not tell us? Frustrating.
He undertook the black Mercedes before getting to you, wasn't slowing for anybody!
Research shows if you are an adult male, and wearing a helmet/high viz, drivers are more willing to make manoeuvres that risk an accident and also more likely to make risky “punishment passes” to register their annoyance that you are on the road. A group of males are most at risk of this.
Absolutely support that decision to report the driver, if they do something that recklessly with potential of seriously injuring you the police should at least be made aware, a driver like that is clearly very negligent and potentially likely to cause injury to someone in the future
That is a shockingly close underpass. Glad you reported that one.
Edit:
I also don’t think those two cars after have you 1.5m when overtaking you. But now too late to report them.
Well done for reporting, Ashley
He’s got breakfast sandwiches to be eating! How dare you get in his way!
I’m thinking of getting an electric bike so these specific videos are very helpful, as are the spacial explanations detailing the camera distortions.
Until you realize that electric vehicle fires happen a lot - usually when stopped or parked, compared to ICE vehicle fires that only happen when moving.
The van driver definitely shouldn't have done what he did. Way too close.
But, if I'd been on the bike, I'd probably have slowed slightly and allowed the van to pass and then moved out behind it.
This is the best option for overall traffic flow.
The van driver not held up at all and the bike rider delayed by 2 seconds. The car behind the van held up for less then the van is held up.
Doing it this way is an overall road network benefit .
We should all consider this when driving or riding.
It's not always about the individual benefit of a particular course of action.
Love these videos!
My first thought was Oh no he's not become a Jeremy Vine . But with good analysis and detailed explanation the incident deserved to be reported.
Only thing missing are the Jeremy Vine style pause, speed up, slow down, zoom out, zoom in with the addition of an overlay of crazy lines and graphics and I think you'll have cracked it on social media, Ash!!
The way the van driver passed the parked bus was also unimpressive.
Ironically when you look at the van in the forwards looking still picture they are in their lane when they pass. The distance here is the same as what happens when in a marked cycle lane and when cars pass on the right. It seems this is acceptable to far too many people to be passed with 50cm to spare in this regard. "They were in their own lane" is the predominant response. The magnetic properties of magic paint.
1:15
Despite the lane he’s in being plenty wide enough for a larger vehicle, the van driver’s inches from the white lane hazard line. I think this may have been a punishment pass.
Will continue the video now
There was nothing Ash did to annoy the van. Van was moving out to pass the bus earlier and Ash was also earlier (the move started 11 seconds before he passed the bus). Just think the van was surprised by Ash's earlier move out and made a poor decision not to slow and follow Ash through. The advice to cyclists to move earlier and command the space is going to put them in conflict with faster road users more often. It's the same equation which needs balancing as it's always been, safety verses progress. Ash's balance is more towards safety that most road users (more so when compared to the stereo typical white van driver). My view is to get cycles off the road whenever possible, there was a perfectly good footpath for Ash to use which would have increased his safety (but slowed his progress) had it have been legal to do so.
@@peterthompson9854 Sadly, some drivers seem to think that just being a cyclist is annoyance enough.
@@peterthompson9854, ditch covers it. Many metal box controllers (I wont call such individuals drivers, as driving means considering the needs of other road users) are easily triggered when another road user is in THEIR space. Thankfully, while there are many like it, they remain the minority.
Not sure but do you propose the 1.5m is from your centre line . I thought it was from the bike handle bar edge so that van was pretty close at speed
Maybe the bad driving by van drivers is the pressure they're under. I asked an Amazon guy if he's like a coffee. 'No time for that, gotta go.' I asked how many drops he had to do that day. 'One hundred and eight.'
Would it be possible to do something like a freedom of information request to find out more details of what the outcome was?
Is it worth saying that your centre line to the edge of the lane might be 1.5m but from the edge of your hand/handlebars it is more likely only 1m. I am finding al lot of drivers overtaking me still too closely as they think they are 1.5m from the centre of my body. Its not enough.
Having worked in a police control room in Scotland you should have asked exactly what was meant. Personally speaking nothing happened you reported a crime. Next time request the CR number of the crime you are reporting so you know it has went into the system. I honestly believe nothing would have happened here to bust trying to catch up on backlogs ETC sadly. You have a right to CRN number which means Crime report number.
Clearly a punishment pass. Report all of them, they'll realise eventually.
Nice update thank you, quick question, Why are you mixing up miles and meters, l see there are signs saying road works 300 yards ahead not meters, you have miles per hour yet, then quote in meters, surely that’s confusing in itself?
At least you had an outcome. I had a van driver reverse without any warning and without him checking his mirrors and crush my front wheel and front forks. He only stopped when I banged on his back door repeatedly with my fist. Luckily I took photo's of the damage to my bike, his van and the number plate of his van. I asked for his insurance details and assumed he was getting it from his van and he drove off. I reported the incident to the police and 3 months later have heard nothing from them.
Just plain dangerous. Some real morons out there, that just don’t seem to give a shit. No manner of defensive positioning works either.
Stay safe out there everyone, and make sure you report what you can. Idiots like this need removing from our roads.
Really great analysis 👍🏼
I'm glad you reported the van driver, whether or not there was a positive outcome. I feel everyone needs to do their duty and step up to report these instances. This time they were a little too close, what happens next time? What if the next rider or driver is not as confident or reacts badly? It may not end well in future if this behaviour is allowed to continue. Plus some drivers may become overconfident and brazenly take these risks to bully those on the road.
as I've said, in the highway code in my state, he was doubly wrong, because he was close enough if you'd fallen, he couldn't have avoided hitting you, AND he was encroaching in your lane.
Love a little Ashley maths lessons to analyse the footage 😉 glad you're ok mate, I'm with you, reporting that was the right thing 👍
All because they couldn't wait a extra 5 seconds.
The fact that he did that with a parked bus in front is mental
I hope positive outcome means NIP (I doubt it does) because it was not just the distance of the pass, it was which side he chose and the speed. From my experience, a lot of people who are 'spoken to', unless you can identify their response as categorically chastened, will not make many changes or will soon revert.
Brilliant, thanks for highlighting this.
I live in Gt Manchester, cycle daily, I only report very dangerous driving & the form on-line takes much longer & is offputting. Also I never here any feedback so don't know any outcome.
Well done mate - glad you found it easy. I got accused of being a grass and a snitch when I mentioned I support reporting using dash cam. These drivers need to know what they do is incorrect
I use my bicycle as my main mean of transportation. So I've got some experience on that topic. The reason why it should be at leist 1.5 Meters distance when overtaking is something you might not realize if you don't cycle. A car moves air. This results in two things affecting cyclists in case of a close pass. First you get blown away from the car. That's not fun but not life threatening. But soon after you get sucked towards the overtaking car. That's the dangerous thing. There are three important factors that can make this effect bigger or smaller, speed, distance and size of the overtaking vehicle.
And well... In this case all three factors were real bad. So that moment was shaky for sure.
I think it's important to make sure car drivers know that this distance rule is not only because having a car right beside is scary. It actually is dangerous.
Which camera do you use?
What bike are you riding Ashley? Couldn't see anything in the description
Himiway cruiser i think, from a month or so ago.
I cycle 6 miles every day. This happens, and more, several times each day. It really isn't worth using a bike anymore..
Yep I'm in a similar situation!
Yeah I used to cycle to work all the time back in the 90's/2000s, but wouldn't dream of it now. I keep fit on my indoor trainer and use the MTB in the forest for enjoyment, but hate road riding now. The state of the roads (pot holes etc) also doesn't help either.
@@noggintube feels like the country is going downhill with the gov not having cared to fix potholes and a significant minority of drivers not caring for other people's lives in order to save a few seconds.
Don’t give up! The more cyclists there are the safer it gets. I’ve definitely noticed a change for the better in London.
The push to get more people cycling in Wales has resulted in some great car free routes between towns to the cities, 80% of my regular 40 mile ride is no longer road. Still though the nearest one is 6 miles away after a hilly single lane road.
Also for a cyclist one should consider the unnecessary stress caused by the sound of a vehicle approaching at speed from behind with no intention of stopping, very unnerving.
Hand signals need to be large, definite and unmistakable as in "see my arm, I AM TURNING/MOVING RIGHT!"
I report close passes that are close enough to touch and really risk my safety, but it is a postcode lottery how seriously the Police forces respond to the reports. Kent Police told me they dont have the resources to view the footage and prioritize only when there is an injury. I think your riding is exemplary in this case and I have learned from you in that your body movements really show other road users what your intentions are, its so easy to just sit in the saddle and enjoy your ride without thinking about how drivers can read you.
I was under the impression that in England there is a reporting video portal set up for dashcam footage to be uploaded? I'd got that from cycling UK org club lobbyists.
I'm still awaiting Scotland to catch up.
I heard that Police Scotland require you to hand over physical copies of the video (USB drive or burned to DVD) and are unable to accept videos online. Note that this was over 6 months ago and it might have changed since.
@@BigDavie2000 MET Police, have portal to upload the video, might be some legal requirement to have the original footage, they do ask if the video has been enhanced electronically. I have had to send USB sticks to Kent police
@@mikgold not in my experience, each Police force is different, although the actual website to report is common the ability to attach the video is different.
@@BigDavie2000 They also require you to have two polis call round at your home to take a statement. The whole system is convoluted. They also don’t offer awareness courses and if you haven’t been injured the Fiscal won’t progress it.
Thank you for making these videos. As both a driver and a cyclist I really appreciate your fair and reasoned approach.
I got close-passed by a massive lorry a few weeks ago. I was in secondary position as there was enough room for it to make a safe pass, but it came so close that I had to swerve onto the pavement and almost fell over. If I hadn’t done that, I reckon I’d have been under one of the wheels. I don’t think the driver even noticed. It really shook me up.
Good vid mate, well explained, sometimes people's films are confusing if you aren't aware of lens distortion. The front view where we can see how close the van is to your bar is very revealing, perhaps making it clear to the casual viewer how close it really is.
Close passing is getting rarer, but a minority of drivers still do it and in some cases it is getting more aggressive.
Unfortunately locally to me, the police have stopped following up and prosecuting offenders. West Midlands force .... others are doing better.
Ashley rarely rides and this still happened. It happens very often
Thanks for highlighting this Ashley and glad you're OK. I think the majority of drivers are OK but out for 2 hours and you'll always come across one. I believe police are issuing points/driver awareness on basis of conclusive video evidence. But varies by force. You only know conclusively if it goes to court. I believe a lot of drivers are ignorant of what a close pass feels like and the reason cyclists ride defensively in middle of the lane. Maybe an on-road cycling awareness course should be part of all driver pre-test training? There are bad cyclists and bad drivers but we shouldn't drive differently based on someone's chosen mode of transport. Drivers also need educating that there hasn't been road tax since the 1930s and roads are paid for out of council tax and general taxation. Most cyclists are car drivers too but both have equal rights to use the roads and equal obligation to follow the highway code but cyclists are more vulnerable from transgressions or misdirected road rage.
That van was approaching quite quickly when you had signalled, then moved out. Also quite close to rear of bus when undertook & swerved out.
Now imagine if someone got off and crossed the road Infront of that bus..they wouldn't stand a chance with that driver 😳
Great analysis/supporting evidence -- stay safe.
I’m a cyclist and find this very common with van drivers, car drivers in general are great, van drivers not so much
Thanks for the video. I never thought about reporting because I've not known when it's too close. I now know I could report at least once a week.
I hope you can make a video about what the best way to film and report is, so it will have a higher chance of success.
It seems to vary force to force. Some forces are really hot on it (Devon and Cornwall even sends out Twitter videos of bad offences) and some can't be bothered.
I've sent in a lot of videos over the last few years to both Merseyside and Cheshire police. As a general rule, if the vehicle comes within touching distance (i.e. arm's length of about 0.7m), they will send a warning letter. My experience is that they only prosecute if the vehicle is dangerously close (say within 0.3m) or there are other considerations (e.g. oncoming traffic is forced to swerve or stop). I've also been advised that including part of the bike within the video enables the police to determine the distnce more accurately and hence is more likely to lead to a prosecution. That's difficult with a helmet camera and I prefer the helmet rather than the handlebar location as, in the event of a collision, it shows whether I've nade shoulder checks etc. I'm also not looking to get drivers prosecuted as I believe a warning letter will usually be sufficient for a driver to take more care in the future.
Hi Ashley, please correct me if I'm wrong but are you wearing a backpack and if so what does it look like to the traffic behind you?
No offense, but how can someone correct you if you haven't made a statement?
Lord that was so so close and to gain what?
With the requirement now being 1.5m at up to 30mph, I'm wondering if there is going to be any pressure put on local councils to increase the width of cycle lanes, as many in the UK are barely wide enough to keep the handlebars inside the lines. Even less so when you consider the state of many of our roads, with either sunken drains and/or erosion damage to the tarmac at the very edge of the road surface. I can't recall where I heard it, and it may very well be in one of your videos or a comment on them, but someone said recently: If vehicles need to be road-worthy, then surely roads should have to be vehicle-worthy.
True, many roads are not necessarily wide enough, but that is something which also needs addressing via some joined-up thinking between all of those responsible for our roads. Whether by road widening where possible, or the introduction of one-way systems where it isn't, the roads generally need improvement and better infrastructure. If the government wants to get people out of cars, then provisions for cycling and public transport need to be _massively_ improved, and new-build housing estates and towns need to be designed with cycle accommodation in mind.
6 weeks is a bit long, i normally hear back from Northumbria police in a week, and nearly always they get a FPN, the Garmin radar is also good at recorded the speed of the approaching vehicle , which submit if they are over the speed limit and also shows they drivers intent
It's a shame you didn't get better feedback from the police. Justice needs to be seen to have been served in order for the public to have confidence in the criminal justice system. Would you consider contacting the police and asking for the outcome? Too many forces treat cyclists exposed to criminal driving like this as a witness, when you are in fact a victim. The UK has a 'victims charter' that states victims of crime have the right to be informed of the outcome, so it is your right to be informed.
Sorry to see this for you Ashley, I think the move out you did was well timed and well checked. You did well to not overreact to the sound of the approaching van too.
One thing I notice is that your indicating 'style' is a little atypical, I wonder what you think it communicates?
I'm glad that the issue of camera distortion has been highlighted because even the standard GoPro has an ultra wide angle (120deg) lens that any photographer will confirm will distort distances quite badly. The analysis using official data provides a good assessment. Too often shock/horror knee jerk reactions on seeing footage on a video is ill-thought out and superficial judgements are made.
I will say however, that the right hand signal was somewhat apologetic and any following traffic could have mis-interpreted it, especially as motorcyclists use the dropped hand as a thank you gesture. Right from cycle proficiency training at a young age, through motorbike and car tuition (when it was a mandatory part) I was always told to be clear and concise with hand signals.
I am both a cyclist and a driver.
I always give cyclists space (this is also important for large vehicles), and try and cycle off the road if it is legal. If overtaking at a high speed, it is always best to give space and slw down. I would say that overtaking a car and a cyclist are both different. This means by using cycke lanes ana paths, as well as pavements if signs tell me cyclists can use it. I also pull over to allow vehicles to overtake if it would be unsafe for them to do so for a while (i have learned this from tractors doing the same). This is what cyclists and drivers of slow vehicles need to do.
From reading the traffic signs manual chapter 8, it tells me that the width of the lane should either be narrow enough to prevent overtaking cyclists, while still being wide enough for large vehicles to pass, or wide enough to allow cyclists to overtake safely without crossing the line. I think drivers may also consider reading traffic signs manual and traffic signs regulations and general directions (TSRGD) alongside know your traffic signs but keep in mind that the former is intended for local authorities.
I'd be cautious about cycling off the road whenever there is a cyclepath or lane available. There are some very good cyclepath/lanes, but some are far more dangerous than the road and the accident statistics prove it. In particular, many shared use (pedestrian/cyclist) paths which are really just pavements with a few signs and some white paint are, in my opinion, best avoided. There is just too much risk of colliding with a pedestrian, particularly children and the elderly, or dogs. There is also added risk crossing minor roads and additional hazards posed by blind driveways, an inferior road surface and street furniture. Obviously it's a personal choice, which will depend on how quickly you cycle and individual paths/lanes. If you feel less safe using a cyclepath compared to the road though, you probably are!
Certainly a valid point about the close pass and vulnerable users. I ride a bike a lot, though, and for the sake of safety always wear both gloves and eye protection. You really should too. You only ever get two eyes, no replacements. And if you fall, skinned hands may end you ride when gloves would have saved it.
I've reported one close pass. I thought for quite a long time about whether or not to do it, and the reason I eventually did was how it made me feel. I'm a relatively experienced and confident rider but this pass left me rattled for the rest of the day, and I reckon could put someone newer off riding again. No action was taken, possibly because I didn't have the correct date and time set on my camera after a recent reset
I wouldn't feel guilty about sending videos in. You're not deciding on whether the driver will be prosecuted, the police will decide that. I think it's likely that the lack of the correct date/time would be the reason the police didn't at least send a warning letter. Although it's rare, when there is video evidence, the driver could have contested the evidence on the basis the date was wrong. This would then mean the case would go to court and a savvy lawyer would be able to get the driver off as the date was incorrect.
The number one reason non-cyclists give for not taking up cycling is safety and close passes are probably the most unsettling of experiences for new cyclists. Drivers that close pass once will continue to do so unless they're stopped. In fact, they are likely to move even closer over time. You are doing the driver a favour, as well as existing and future cyclists by reporting them. A close pass can easily become an accident. The cyclist will be injured or possibly killed and the driver is very likely to lose their licence and possibly endup in jail. It only takes a gust of wind, a pothole, a problem with the bike or something similar to cause the cyclist to change path suddenly and result in a collision. The 1.5m might seem excessive to some drivers, but it does mean that, should the cyclist suddenly change path or even fall from their bike, they are far more likely to be able to do so without being hit.
I had a manic behind me in a van East Kilbride Scotland 🤬🤬🤬🤡
Yeah I don’t blame you for reporting that
if the lane is 3m wide, don't forget your handle bars might be 80cm across , so add 1.5m to 40cm gives 1.9m from the CENTRE LINE of your bike...he should be well into the nearside lane, to give a minimum CLEARANCE of 1.5m
I agree it was "close" and the Vans approaching speed compared to your own was quite high. But even taking those things into consideration the Van was in the other Lane when it passed.
Personally I would have been aware that the Van was travelling at a much higher speed than I was and would have waited for the Van to pass before I would have attempted to go around the Bus, which would have easily been accomplished as the Van passed the Bus a long time before you did.
In my humble opinion you yourself unnecessarily placed yourself in a risky position in the endeavour to get passed the bus.
When you say 'a long time',,, about 1:16 to 1:18 ?
& Ashley passed the bus @ 1:20
On a race track that's a big amount of time but not here.
No, this is 100% the van driver's fault. There was more than enough time for the driver to slow down. Pulling out to pass stopped vehicles is always risky, and you have to do your best to do it safely. If he had waited until after the van had passed, he then has to hope that the following Merc will let him pull out; if they then force their way past too, he's likely to have to stop behind the bus. If he stops behind the bus, he then has to pull out into traffic from a standing start, which is massively more risky.
To pull out when he did was easily the safest option. There was a good gap, and when using a slow vehicle, you have to take advantage of gaps when they present themselves in order to conserve kinetic energy. It's not an issue of laziness, it's an issue of safety. Much better to maintain speed than to have to pass that bus from a standing start.
Definitely the van driver’s fault, you gave a clear signal and moved unambiguously into the centre of lane 2
But I think Ashley failed to heed his own advice and “make it a non issue”. By backing off and letting him go before you moved out.
No, he shouldn’t have to. But it would have been safer
To find out what the outcome was you can submit a Freedom of Information request asking if anyone was prosecuted or issued a FPN for a road traffic offence that took place at the exact time and location of this incident, and what the penalty was. They won't name the driver but they'll give you the information you need.
It’s in these situations where you need dedicated cycle lanes, in your vid the road goes from a single lane to 2 lanes to a 3 lane carriageway junction and back into a single lane.
[Middle lane goes straight and the two either side turn off]
The moment you move to the middle lane to go straight on you are in effect in the middle of a 2 or 3 lane carriageway and are extremely vulnerable no matter what precautions you take.
At the bus stop it is in effect a dual carriageway where you are moving out into the outside lane to get past the stationary bus.
You don't need cycle lanes. People simply need to be a bit more courteous.
@@wrightwoodwork no cycle lanes are still needed, to completely remove fast heavy vehicle traffic from the lane. Too much traffic is in too much of a constant fast rush.
@@wrightwoodwork
I agree, but also…
I’ve had double hip replacement surgery and have been told by the surgeon am extremely vulnerable to a hip fracture if I have a fall, I am happy to ride my bike around town in singe lane roads because the traffic is slow moving but as soon as you get larger roads like this there is no way I gonna rely on the diligence of others to look after my safety.
If you have the room to widen the road up to create multiple lane junctions then you usually also have the room to add cycle lanes as well.
@@mikewade777 people have brakes and can just bloody wait till the cyclist clears the danger and pulls back to make safe. If people drove with theier eyes open would.
@@wrightwoodwork most of my routes because i don't live in a city are car free. Not passing parked cars, not stopping or pulling in to allow faster vehicles to pass. Much more pleasant than the alternative, the road.
Ashley, did you ask the police what "a positive outcome" means?