I'm more or less a self taught machinist. I don't do anything very precision but make lots of non-critical stuff. I have learned a lot from your videos. What I really like is that you don't spend 20 minutes talking about useless stuff. You are right to the point and show how it's done. Thank you so much for sharing you vast knowledge of machining.
Hey Joe if you were close enough I'd fix your mill for you. You guys that take the time to share info like this are certainly earning some help from those of us who are able to help. Thanks for your efforts, many people are glad to see you share your experience. Thanks
Joe...Love your videos. I'm 38 years old with 10 years of machining experience. Unfortunately, I started backwards in the machining industry on the CNC mill and lathe machines. Only as recently as this year did I transition to manual machining as a conscious career choice. Essentially, I want to become a better machinist. The amount of respect and awe I have for those trailblazers who plied their craft on Bridgeport mills and Cincinnati lathes is immeasurable (not even calipers can measure it ;) ) Its one thing to push a bunch of buttons and rely on a programmer to plot out your work. From a business owner's standpoint, I'm sure CNC helps to increase productivity and reduce error. However, it's an entirely different level of production when you are forced to do the thinking for yourself and understand why you are implementing certain processes. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Joe I am fitter and machinist by trade here in Australia and the tricks you have shown and the clear and understandable way present them are really great.l am 63 and have worked in large machine shops, toolrooms and general maintenance and have never seen some these great techniques in the other videos, Fantastic work Joe, keep it coming, kind regards Jay
Thanks again, Joe. I always look forward to your videos and watch them first despite having about 50 subscriptions to other channels. Although being new to this, you are one of the best.
It's nice to see someone sharing good tips, a lot of engineers like to keep these to themselves. I've seen over the years the skill level of young engineers drop dramatically due to cnc machining, it seems like all they're getting is just a green button apprenticeship. Keep up the good work! 👍
Here it is Feb 2023, and I am going back 5 yrs to refresh my ole mind as to a round part that needs a 11/64 pass through hole, but at a 2deg angle. Joe knowledge an teaching is better than looking up how-too's I'm my Machinists Handbook any day! Heck, he's still teaching us in 2023 and I owe 98% as a hobbyist from Joe. Keep on Keeping on friend! Bear.
Just started in machining 5 years ago when I met my best dude Randal. He's a tool and die maker for 40 odd years. He has taught me loads of things you could never learn in school! I have been watching your channel for a while now and trying your techniques in the shop. Some he already knows and has taught me such as this OP. And some I even taught him. I was real proud of that you can bet! We do not have any cnc machines. Everything is manual with DROs as our only electronics. Most everything we do is custom one off parts or repairs and sometimes small production runs of say up to 100 parts. Thanks for putting your time and knowledge out there for those who have this passion to make and create. Who would otherwise not have the opportunity to meet someone such as I have to help them learn. You are really giving back. Not only to the community but to the world! LOL! Hook 'em Horns! Formerly Temple/Belton, TX now Fort Wayne, IN.
Mr. Joe Pieczynski, many thanks for sharing your knowledge through his instructive and well explained videos. Besides dedication for the quality of its editions. Again, Thank you very much and greetings from Argentina.
More great info- who the hell puts a thumbs down on this?Evidently they have no idea just how valuable all this stuff is even if you already know a lot of it- small side comments that you make are often quite illuminating- thanks again Joe. Just brilliant
Just found your video channel few days ago, Joe. As an older machinist who is still turning all the dials by hand, I enjoy watching. My shop is very small, and I make mostly one-offs and short runs of parts for various customers. Love seeing you work on the manual machines, but enjoy some of the CNC vids, too. What's really nice is seeing someone who knows some of the older tricks I learned when I was young, working with the old heads in the trade. Thanks for the enjoyable banter, too.
Thanks, Joe. I’m not a machinist, just a wannabe. I tried this on my Bridgeport mill (old round ram with no nod feature). It worked perfectly! Thanks for teaching. Much appreciated.
Hey Joe. Looks like you got things working REALLY well with your new video setup. Well focused and steady, good lighting and good sound. Congrats. Good info on this video. Thanks
I know this is a 4 year old video but I needed to make sure I'm on the right track with drilling and tapping some holes into a few round parts for a race bike I'm building. Yet again you sorted it Joe. I need to counterbore to recess the heads of some cap screws into the parts so this technique is just the job. Oh, and my Bridgeport head rattles like crazy too lol. Thanks again from the UK.
im not a machinist but i have a mill and I have a very specific need to drill an angled hole. Its for gas port in a virgin rifle barrel. This video was very helpful Thanks!
videos get better and better. Great detail. i really like how u focus on oddball things or things that arent usually talked about but happen all the time in the shop. Maybe you can do a video on using endmills in the lathe in the future? Maybe knurling or reaming? I really liked the steady rest video. I always seem to have problems with chatter / endmill cutting way oversize. Sadly, our shop doesnt have the proper tooling for the job a lot of the time and I have to improvise. Thanks for the videos Joe Pi
I just have to thank you again I never thought of making a flat spot or using an end mill, I always used a guide, other part with hole it or I just didn't try to drill at any angle but a 90 degree ! If you every need another Job Please start teaching young people !! Your easy going,simply straight forward way of presenting things is just what this generation badly needs as most seam still lost at 20 - 30 yrs and older ! Your the Solution!
Your absolutely correct, spare the rod spoil the Child-sort of! I never spanked my two Daughters - just cut their privileges & taught them right from wrong, tried to raise them right & show them by example what it's like when 2 people Really Love each as my wife & I do!
That mill sounds as noisy as mine, a cheap Chinese ZX50CA, with geared head. I have tried adding thicker transmission oil but one of these days I will have to take it apart and check the bearings and gear meshing if I want to keep my hearing! Love the videos and have learned alot from them, keep up the good work.
I had to do this in 3/4 S/S nuts for a anti tamper wire. Orders were for 1,000. Came in from the side with a 3/16 4f center cut @ 850-900rpm then set up with the drill bit. Gota love an air vice!
Thanks Joe. I'm glad that I subscribed to your channel. As a newby I've learned quite a few things from you. I'm glad that you are willing to share your knowledge with me.
I so enjoy your videos...I am a retired Aircraft Propeller Blade Technition...I have worked on many different types of Aircraft Propeller, from C130 and P3 Orion, Cessna Aircraft, Pipers, and crop dusters, and the list goes on....I Am fascinated by Your precision and downright incredible ability to make things work...The knocking sound in Your milling machine, is like a set screw has backed out of a rotating shaft and is hitting a stationary metal structure..? I am considering purchasing a small (used) lathe, and making some fun things...there is a video of a gyroscope and a few other things I am looking at also....Henry...keep up the wonderful Work You are doing...
OK well done. This is one of the first techniques I learned as an apprentice journeyman 45 years ago. Make a flat before you drill. In my case it was clearance drilling and counter boring for 4-40 socket head screws on the edge of .75 diameter copper bar clamp. 3/16 dia. end mill (as flat and c'bore), center drill, 1/8 clearance drill. de-burr, done. Point, you can use non-center cutting end mill if you can enter the workpiece from the side, X or Y axis rather than Z axis as shown. in the video'
Joe Pie, thanks for sharing. That technique convinced me. Keep making these vids please. I refer friends to your vids because you demonstrate and explain well.
I think my Bridgeport was even louder. I rebuilt the top end last month. It's probably just a bushing repair. There's plastic bushings on the motor pulley ( on variable speed machines) and the front variable speed pulley. But on my machine nearly every bearing felt like it had sand in it as well, so I was glad I did the whole top end - just a couple hundred dollars in parts, I got a great understanding of how the machine works and the nearly silent running machine was the reward.
I also second Jame's recommendation. It could just be the plastic bushing the spindle drive pulley. I've heard that's a common source of noise in older machines.
Just to go a little further to accommodate an odd sized hole you can trig out in infinite number of offsets from the hole center in order to achieve a near perfect match to the drill size required (if necessary). 3 steps per quadrant will usually suffice if the end mill is close to the desired hole diameter. Thanks, by the way, for giving me an outlet for what has become useless information now that I have retired.
What we need is a sort of Peace Corp where retired guys can fan out and share their tons of information with younger guys wanting to learn. It is a shame the amount of hard won information that is lost every day in the world as guys exit the work force, no matter how well deserved.
I don't think it will ever be useless information. We hobbyist are always in need of tips from you old masters. Any tip you guys can give is priceless information to pass on to the next generation of machinist.
Super useful. I have done the mill cutter in a Jacob's chuck and had it pull into the job and ruin it, causing me to invest in an er collet which has been a blessing.
Everyone is different, but I am not a fan of endmills in chucks. I do it once in a while if I am counterboring aluminum and there is already a hole, but otherwise, you are not going to catch me finishing an 80% lower on a drill press.
I’m a new subscriber and very new at machining. A hobby in my retirement. Love your way of thinking and vast experience. I own a very low end King mill, belt drive with stacked pully,s. On one occasion while changing speeds, I encountered the exact same rattle. Turned out I over tightened the belts. After the tension on the belts was adjusted, the rattle was gone. Who know, maybe something to check. Thanks for the videos.
If your mill has one of those sliding levers in the front of the head up top for back gear, sometimes the bushing that rides in the inclined slot can wear down and cause the gears to rub inside. If you have that type, check that bushing.
Joe, I use this trick often but I would make sure and give a caution. Not everyone out there has a Milling Machine and my try this on a Drill Press. It's not a good idea to do this in a Drill Press as the Endmill will often walk, reach the edge of the hole, dig in and break off. You used a Center Drill after the Endmill as one of your steps. For Drill Press users, try the same thing except skip the Endmill and use the Center Drill as step one. You can go deep enough with the Center Drill if you use frequent Peck cycles to let the captured chips fly out of the short Flutes on a Center Drill. If you go deep enough, you will have a full circle to start your cut with a Drill and there is the starter hole created by the Center Drill to keep everything centered up.
You will have to be very patient. The centerdrill 2 flute design will have a greater tendency to walk than an end mill. Its the angled tip of the centerdrill and angled surface that will increase deflection potential.
Great tip!! I have used the end mill trick. But using the knee to control the feed is priceless.. P.S. I had a drill press making same noise, ended up the set screw on motor pulley backed off allowing it to rattle on the key way...
Hey Joe, I just caught this video today; figure you've got that noisy milling machine sorted by now... but if you've got any other maintenance/repairs needed, I'm moving to central Texas this year and would be happy to give a hand in appreciation for the fine content you keep putting up
Another Great video Joe- the head on my mill sounds similar. When you find out what it is - let us all know with a repair video. That's exactly how I do angled holes or holes on round stock - you need a flat.
...Nice to be the first... Hi Joe - thanks for this video. I knew to make a starting pocket for this holes, but to use the quill for a better "feeling" is new to me. Thanks again and keep going on. Tom
Joe Pieczynsk: This is one of those, "I thought everyone knew that" subjects. However, there might be some that will experience an 'ah ha' moment and benefit from this video. I'm not so proud that I can't admit I've learned or have had my memory jogged from some of your videos.
I will support Martin Vernon's comment concerning the spline and spline socket rattling. Probably caused by a slightly bent spline shaft. This will cause the knocking your mill is making. Good video and well explained.
Joe I would have done it the same way you did.... With one variation. Even if I were using a face cutting end Mill, I would plunge cut only down to the point of where I had a full diameter flat..... And then I would have walked it out to the side in order to ensure that the surface the center drill would encounter would be dead flat. I'm used to working to aircraft tolerances and I would have to minimize any chance at the center drill would walk even a couple of thousands off center if it encountered a convex surface left by a simple end Mill plunge. Also, to minimize the drill walking as it broke through the backside I might have pre-drilled a 1/8" pilot hole all the way through, and I would make sure that the final sized drill would have a split point..... So that the linear pressure on the drill would be reduced. This would help to minimize it from walking as it broke through the other side. All in all, you've made a great video here!
Hi Joe, Great video as usual. Just one comment...... Since I stopped using centre drills for anything other than drilling holes in which I'm going to use a centre, I've never had the tip break on one. Spotting drills all the way!
Good Tip, thats how I do it. Can I request a video? One area I am very uneducated in is the naming of different metals. I often hear people on TH-cam refer to '4140' or '316' or in this video '17.4'. Can you give any explanation as to the where the numbers are derived from and how you would go about choosing what grade to use for a component. At home I just use what ever I can get hold of and at work we don't use any common materials so ive never had to study it. Cheers
I'll look into this one Crispin. Good suggestion. Coming from a medical background, I can say the 17-x series stainless steels are heat treatable. I was surprised at that one. 17-4 cuts great and heat treats easily. Ends up at around 44C rockwell.
Great video, I like the tip, Id probably try to finish the whole with the end mill, that should be interesting. As far as the noise goes, I got the same one, and I finally fixed it! Ear plugs...take care and keep making vids!
What would you do if you had an odd size hole like say 17/64" or 9/32" for which you don't have an end mill of the same diameter? Would you be forced to use a 5/16" end mill to do the 'footprint' and then switch to the desired drill bit or is there another technique? BTW I really enjoy that you use manual machines to do your videos instead of relying on NC/CNC machines. Knowing how to use manual machinery provides a solid foundation for a person to move to computerized machines. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Nice tip.....the best message to me was "take your time" "take your time".....as a young man working as a mechanic it was beat into me beat flat rate.....I am always going TOO FAST.......
Useful tip for drilling on an offset. I to don't like the idea of using an end mill in a drill chuck as I've been told the vibration set up in the cutting process is enough to work the chuck or the end mill loose. I've never tried this but can always remember my instructor tell us about this. I had a bench drill given to me a long time ago - it too sounded like your machine, when I looked for where the noise was coming from I found the belt had been repaired with a metal link joining the belt. The belt had been repaired with a twist in it. I ordered a new belt but in the meantime I flipped out the link and replaced it with out the twist. The machine ran quietly without the vibration.
Yes, I tried it Outlooker 251 - despite reading a warning about not using an end mill in a drill chuck. I had just started to learn engineering and had a brand new small drill/mill. I had a very small flat to put in the side of a piece of drill rod (for a set screw engagement). I would use a very SMALL end mill, so what would be the harm - I reasoned. I could have easily mounted my end mill chuck - but I had been drilling holes you understand. Anyway, I had hardly touched the work when the chuck let go of its arbor.... There is an old saying that says that experience is what you get when you get noting else out of an endeavor. I have a little round gouge on the top of my mill vice's front jaw (where the end mill hit it) that I call my "experience mark"! Every time I see it I remind myself to listen when experience speaks. Joe has the experience and that is why I have subscribed. Thanks Joe!
All good stuff Joe ....... I guess a quill helps ! Be great to see a video of your mill head tear down and refit .....I'm sure there are Kent of noisy mill heads out there. All the best Mat
Interesting technique Joe. How would you suggest actually locating the hole in the angled piece of stock? With the round stock an edge finder can be used and the position of the hole set using the DRO. Say you wanted to drill a hole 2" in from the end of the angled stock, how would you proceed?
Hi Joe. Please excuse the dumb question, but is there any reason why you couldn't do the whole job with the end-mill, and save on the tool changes? I would have thought that it would break through cleaner on the back side than the drill bit would.
There is no reason you couldn't finish the hole with an end mill, but plunging an end mill is historically not known to give a precision hole if its the first tool to cut. Following a drilled hole with an end mill to true up the hole is not unusual.
Hi Cap'n Thanks for another nice practical problem solving Video. Had done this before, but U explain and do it lots better Feeding with the Knee. Will give Your method a shot in future. Would have been nice to see how U would centred on the Cylindrical without the DRO, which most of us don't have. I know U would say use the Centre Finders and the Mill Dials, but is there another method ??? Just thinking out aloud. Don't mind me. Oh well, we have the CDC Tool for that. All the best aRM
You can use a dial indicator to sweep either the body of your cylinder, or the surfaces if you have a stop to use. Just be sure to pickup the high spots both vertically and radially on each side. Easy.
Hi Joe, great vid as per usual. I'm not trained as, nor do I work as a machinist. I call myself a "machinist as required", haha! I'm wondering how you calculate positioning the end mill so the center of the hole is where you want it. I can figure it out on the round bar by touching of on the side with an edge finder and moving to the correct spot (hopefully called out on the drawing). But how is it done on a flat piece set at an angle if the hole has to be positioned to line up with a mating hole? As the angle changes this mystery calculation also changes. Hope that is clear as mud!
Thanx Joe, I knew you'd know how. I just got a new pair of glasses today. Your ear pieces look really short to me, what's up with that? Are they comfortable that way?
Good sir let me say first you are bible of knowledge,keep doing videos like that-little tips and tricks and some common knowledge maybe not so avalable to everyone ! my question to you is gow do you drill a 90° hole in a pipe without a dividing table ?I cant go trough with a drill since i will encounter second curve,if i move it to do it from top side it wont be 90° anymore,and my starting drill or endmill are not long enough to hit the second wall of pipe to make flat spot.Any idea?
That is a problem for all of us, but I believe there is a tool called an elipto-master that addresses this problem. www.deburrmasterinc.com/elipto-master I have never used one, but hear they yield favorable results.
Joe, maybe you mentioned this and I missed it but why couldn’t you side mill into the angled surface to create the step or pocket for the drill bit. I am new to machining, just got an import lathe and mill and I’m fascinated by machining. You and TOT are amazing resources. Thanks!
Hey Joe, thanks. I just have a Grizzly mini mill and cant raise up the table, I have a ER 20 setup and can use the fine adjustment instead of drill press style operation, any tips or just peck at it? Don't know about your mill but sounds like some excess backlash of gears in drive, and it sounds like $$$, good luck. God Bless Ya, Dave
Thank´s for sharing your experience. I´m a beginer chinistma , well almost, just 5 years in the trade. that noise on your mill may be the bearings. on another subject, I see you´ve been in Nayarit Mexico at "el Gordo" , I live in Mexico at a 4 hour drive to Nayarit. Saludos desde Mexico
Am I correct in thinking that if you needed a “land,” or maybe it’s a “shoulder,” for the head of a fastener to rest on could you use an appropriately sized end mill to create the “land” and then drill the hole in the center of that area?
Joe, I don't know where to ask this, so here goes :- I am being asked at work to machine an awkward part. It is an aluminium CNC machined car gearchange paddle from a steering wheel, and it needs a tiny bit of cosmetic machining to change a - sign to a + sign. They want me to stick it onto a flat surface with body filler to hold it in the correct attitude and then clamp the flat surface to the bed. Then manually machine the alteration on our shop Bridgeport clone. Is this normal practice? Sounds like a shortcut to get out of a hole to me rather than machine another one. Would you describe this as standard practice, as I have not seen this clamping system mentioned anywhere!
You would be surprised at how many different ways I have seen and personally held a part. Epoxy in a baggie, a sand bag....you name it. As long as the cutter load doesn't out shine the setup, it should work. Id personally let the body filler harden up first, and probably suggest a perimeter ring of some sort so it doesn't crack when you clamp down the paddle. Take small cuts and good luck.
Roger Crier- Jewelers, Gunsmiths, Bladesmiths and Engravers of these small, random-shaped items grip them in their vices using a product called Thermo Loc. According to the MSDS, Thermo Loc is a blend of proprietary thermoplastics distributed by Glendo Corp and available for sale on their website www.grs.com. Thermo Loc is produced in round sticks approximately 0.25" in diameter & approximately 8" in length. It softens to a pliable "putty when heated in a microwave oven to between 140-158*F. Once shaped around the object, the margins of the Thermo Loc and be fashioned to create edges that can be firmly gripped in a vise after the thermoplastic cools to a hardened state at room temp. This should offer you a very flexible solution for work-holding on small/irregular parts that need to be machined. Cheers- John Visalia, CA
Nice demo, Joe. Question: why is using a center drill instead of a spotting drill common practice? I seem to recall hearing that center drills were designed for drilling the hole to support the tailstock center. The purpose of the smaller diameter hole to prevent the tip of the center from bottoming out and keeping the center from seating as well as providing a reservoir for lubricant. Are spotting drills a more modern invention perhaps? Just seems curious because the small diameter of the center drill can be fragile, especially if used to try to start a hole on an inclined or round part without milling the flat as you demonstrated. Are your pulleys tight on the shaft? Sounds like a setscrew has loosened and some play has developed between a pulley and a shaft.
I use both. If you have a hand ground drill and the center is off, it may be the first thing to make contact on a spotted drilled feature and jump around. I think the center drill has the edge because the starting load is farther out and its not a full cut until a reasonable depth is achieved. Just my opinion and experiences talking.
Joe, had the same noise on a Mitoyo knee mill last week. It was the bearings on the motor side of the head, on the spring side of the variable pulley. They develop that odd noise from bad wear or completely dry of oil. The Mitoyo mill had oil spouts I soaked with medium weight oil and ran the machine without load for roughly 30 minutes. Turns out all spouts were bone dry which made the bearings noisy. I suggest a heavier weight oil in your oil spouts followed by running the machine at varying rpms without load (goes without saying check the health of the belt as a flat spot makes the same noise). Let me know if it work.
Hi Joe, great video as always. Great tip but however, not everyone has a milling machine and endmills. How would you go about doing it with a standard pillar drill or even by hand if the need arose. Say you needed to do it on your trailer or caravan chasis ?
Hi Dave. If I had to do that, I'd drill a hole in a piece of material and mill the angle on that part. Clamp that part to the area where you need the angle hole and use your clamped piece as a guide. It may take some prep, but it would get the job done. Is a pillar drill a drill press?
Hi Joe, Yes Sorry I forgot you Yanks call things differently. A Pillar drill here in England and Australia is what you call a drill press. Available in floor mounting versions as well as bench mounting. We also have them called Radial Drills, where the base is mounted on the floor and the arm with the chuck and motor on swings radially about the column and is also adjustable in and out. The work is clamped to the table and the drill can be positioned anywhere within the table area and quite often outside to parts that are on the floor. Thanks for the reply, but you still mention having to make a block using a milling machine that a lot of people do not own. Regards from a HOT Adelaide in Australia @ 42 C.
I play with both for a living. 2" hole, or under 1/16" in Nasty! Joe, We have the same lathe, just generations apart. I always went towards the chuck. One lathe needed direct reverse. I was young, but made it work. Basics are gone in schools. It takes dedication from a teacher, to keep up with the latest. We don't need computer guru's Just a kid that thinks this is cool!
great video Joe could this technique be used on a drill press and if so how would we go about doing it scene you can't put a end mill in a drill chuck thanks for sharing your knowledge
raymond woodring. if you have the means you could make an end mill holder/collet. basically a sleeve made out of something like mild steel so the hardened chuck jaws can grab it. use a set screw to secure the end mill. but remember, a drill press uses a taper to secure the chuck, side pressure like you will get in this operation will likely cause it to come apart at speed.
I wish I could suggest an alternate method, but drill chucks on drill presses weren't designed for end mill loads. It may work for you if you creep down to depth by small adjustments on your quill adjustment nut. I am going to guess it will jump around quite a bit. You won't know unless you try it, but its really not good for the machine.
Or, redefine your end mill as a flat ended drill and carry on regardless. Loads are axial, so a drill chuck will work just fine, it is any side thrust that is the big NO-NO for drill chucks, not only for holding problems but also you tend to loosen Morse tapers. edit I just read some more comment/replies and see you have mention tapers.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge, you mentioned its a bad idea to stick an end mill into a chuck, can you tell me why that's a bad idea. I get that you would loose some accuracy but what else would be the problem. Thank you
End mills have hardened shanks which will dull the jaws of a drill chuck. And because you've got hard against hard the mills tend to spin in the jaws. The damage done lessens the chuck's ability to hold drill bits with sufficient locking force.
For through holes,l would it be appropriate to use an annular cutter for this kind of thing? Seems like it would cut as a plunging endmill rather than a drill so it wouldn't walk to the side.
awesome vid Joe, ill have to try this on my mill :) 2 questions though.... 1st: my mill is only a quill feed, there is no knee on the mill so I have to unlock the head from the main support and crank it up or down and then tighten it back up, there is the quill for the z axis... for my mill, is my only option to use the quill and set the lock for a little bit of drag to help with hop and chatter? or is there another method you recommend? 2nd: ive been looking for a DRO kit for a while but would like to hear if you have any good recommendations....? and where to get it. thanks. mike.
Hi Mike. Keeping heavy drag on the quill and stepping down slowly sounds like your only option. I have always had AccuRite digitals and trust them. Check MSCdirect.com or go directly to AccuRite for a quote. There is also a thing called a Trav-A-Dial if the DRO proves to be our of your price range. I think Southwestern industries sells them.
If you have bad problems with chatter, despite the drag, you might try the folded square of rag (denim works well) soaked in cutting oil trick. You put this on the workpiece and mill through it. It preloads everything and adds damping as well, because the tool cannot easily cut through it: it has to be worn away, so it fills up the relief angles. Works a treat for other tricky ops, like big countersinks or counterbores in stainless steel, or using a conventional twist drill through thin sheet metal (without the rag, you get a lobed hole like a Wankel rotor shape)
Once the pocket is formed using an end mill do you continue (for center drill & twist drill) to use the pressure on the quill but advance into the material via table lift or simply advance using the quill alone? Thanks
I know this was published almost 2 years ago, but have you figured out & fixed the mill noise yet? My draw bar has a slight bend in it & it makes quite the knocking noise, more with some collets than others. Pull the draw bar out and turn on the mill. If the noise goes away you've found yourself a cheap fix with zero down time. Here's hoping it's that easy.
Joe, I understand that using a mill of a different size than the drill bit would leave a trace detail. Would there be a problem in using a smaller sized mill and bit, as a pilot hole, then follow up with the correct sized drill bit to remove the trace and end up with the intended dimension? Would there still be a tendency for the bit to wander on the second drill pass?
The single sided contact caused by the slanted surface and the smaller hole would still cause the drill to walk. Unless its very soft material and your drill is very rigid. Overall, go bigger.
So then how would you tap an angled hole like this? Especially for a small tap, getting it started on-axis and cutting the first angled section seems like it would be a real challenge.
Hey Joe does your machine rattle as much as it sounds piece. Any chance we may see you do some changing out of what ever. Really like you vids. Cheers Ian
Hello Ian. I am sure its the plastic bushings on the front vari drive shaft. Its a bit different procedure than the rear, but the rear is posted under my "mill repair video" It wasn't a bad project, just a bunch of unknowns. The second time would be a walk in the park.
Hi Joe, another great informative vid. I don’t know how old it is but have you fixed that noisy drilling machine yet? I had one with similar rattle and difficult to say but the one I was using had a loose cooling fan on the motor.
Joe, I do not own a Milling machine, only a Drill Press. Can I use the End Mill without doing damage in my Drill Press? I like your method! I do happen to own many End Mills from an old Lathe my Dad used to have - most brand new.
You risk disengaging the chuck from the morse shank from the interrupted side load. I would think your handle would bounce considerably. If your setup is rigid and you have a guide hole of some sort, you could probably get away with it.
Can you elaborate on not using a end mill in a drill chuck? I didn’t know that would be an issue. I bought some end mills so I could drill a flat bottom hole in copper. Would the end mill work in a cordless drill if the drill was in the screw/clutch mode?
Normally chucks are seated on tapered arbors intended for direct inline axial loads. End mills produce side loads and may unlock the taper. Chucks also don't offer the support an end mills requires so the chatter or dancing around will be amplified, not to mention the unintended load on the chuck jaws. Its just not a good practice.
I know about the side load on drill chucks and the end mill being used in them, but even if your "drilling" as you did here with vertually no side loading on the chuck or mill, you still dont abvise it?
@@timenlow443 Although there is no linear side load, there is an impact side load from the interrupted cut on the angled surface. Its a problem waiting to happen for taper lock chucks.
Probably way over thinking this but if you are making this hole to put a fastener through don't you run into issues with the head of the fastener protruding above the surface? I am assuming the hole fits the body of the fastener not the head. Now IF that is the case, do you go in with a larger end mill to do the counter-bore or to create a flat so as to counter-sink? IF you are creating a counter-bore does a regular counter-bore tool have enough length on its pilot to center in the hole as the angle maybe such it can only engage a small part and not be centered. What can go wrong if you are threading an angled hole, for example the sample Joe did on the round, only the middle part of the hole would have full threads...
Answers... Hardware sticking out would definitely depend on the hardware, but usually it does. Yes to the larger end mill for the counter-bore. A standard counter-bore tool may have enough lead if the offset isn't too far off center And..true on the threaded hole observation. Only the full diameter section of the hole will yield full threads. Most shaft collars are made this way and the design has been the same forever. Select your threaded hardware carefully and you should be OK.
I'm more or less a self taught machinist. I don't do anything very precision but make lots of non-critical stuff. I have learned a lot from your videos. What I really like is that you don't spend 20 minutes talking about useless stuff. You are right to the point and show how it's done. Thank you so much for sharing you vast knowledge of machining.
Thank you.
Hey Joe if you were close enough I'd fix your mill for you. You guys that take the time to share info like this are certainly earning some help from those of us who are able to help. Thanks for your efforts, many people are glad to see you share your experience. Thanks
I finally tore the head down last week. I'll post a video of the fix.
Joe...Love your videos. I'm 38 years old with 10 years of machining experience. Unfortunately, I started backwards in the machining industry on the CNC mill and lathe machines. Only as recently as this year did I transition to manual machining as a conscious career choice. Essentially, I want to become a better machinist.
The amount of respect and awe I have for those trailblazers who plied their craft on Bridgeport mills and Cincinnati lathes is immeasurable (not even calipers can measure it ;) )
Its one thing to push a bunch of buttons and rely on a programmer to plot out your work. From a business owner's standpoint, I'm sure CNC helps to increase productivity and reduce error. However, it's an entirely different level of production when you are forced to do the thinking for yourself and understand why you are implementing certain processes. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Joe
I am fitter and machinist by trade here in Australia and the tricks you have shown and the clear and understandable way present them are really great.l am 63 and have worked in large machine shops, toolrooms and general maintenance and have never seen some these great techniques in the other videos, Fantastic work Joe, keep it coming, kind regards Jay
Thanks again, Joe. I always look forward to your videos and watch them first despite having about 50 subscriptions to other channels. Although being new to this, you are one of the best.
Thank you very much. I appreciate the compliment.
It's nice to see someone sharing good tips, a lot of engineers like to keep these to themselves.
I've seen over the years the skill level of young engineers drop dramatically due to cnc machining, it seems like all they're getting is just a green button apprenticeship.
Keep up the good work! 👍
Thanks Joe as an old frustrated hobby machinist it is awesome to have somebody of your caliber give up the tidbits of a lifetime in the industry
Here it is Feb 2023, and I am going back 5 yrs to refresh my ole mind as to a round part that needs a 11/64 pass through hole, but at a 2deg angle. Joe knowledge an teaching is better than looking up how-too's I'm my Machinists Handbook any day! Heck, he's still teaching us in 2023 and I owe 98% as a hobbyist from Joe. Keep on Keeping on friend! Bear.
Thanks for stopping by Bear.
Just started in machining 5 years ago when I met my best dude Randal. He's a tool and die maker for 40 odd years. He has taught me loads of things you could never learn in school! I have been watching your channel for a while now and trying your techniques in the shop. Some he already knows and has taught me such as this OP. And some I even taught him. I was real proud of that you can bet! We do not have any cnc machines. Everything is manual with DROs as our only electronics. Most everything we do is custom one off parts or repairs and sometimes small production runs of say up to 100 parts. Thanks for putting your time and knowledge out there for those who have this passion to make and create. Who would otherwise not have the opportunity to meet someone such as I have to help them learn. You are really giving back. Not only to the community but to the world! LOL! Hook 'em Horns! Formerly Temple/Belton, TX now Fort Wayne, IN.
Some day you will be that dude. Learn all you can, while you can, then pass it on. Thanks for the comment.
Mr. Joe Pieczynski, many thanks for sharing your knowledge through his instructive and well explained videos. Besides dedication for the quality of its editions.
Again, Thank you very much and greetings from Argentina.
Thanks for your comment and support.
Over 5 years after you posted this but want to say thank you for the lessons and I always learn something from your videos.
Glad to help
More great info- who the hell puts a thumbs down on this?Evidently they have no idea just how valuable all this stuff is even if you already know a lot of it- small side comments that you make are often quite illuminating- thanks again Joe. Just brilliant
Just found your video channel few days ago, Joe. As an older machinist who is still turning all the dials by hand, I enjoy watching. My shop is very small, and I make mostly one-offs and short runs of parts for various customers. Love seeing you work on the manual machines, but enjoy some of the CNC vids, too.
What's really nice is seeing someone who knows some of the older tricks I learned when I was young, working with the old heads in the trade.
Thanks for the enjoyable banter, too.
Thanks for watching.
Three channels seem to answer all my machining question. Joe Pie, This Old Tony and Blondihacks. But Joe Pie is quickly becoming my favorite.
Thanks, Joe. I’m not a machinist, just a wannabe. I tried this on my Bridgeport mill (old round ram with no nod feature). It worked perfectly! Thanks for teaching. Much appreciated.
that's all well when you are in the shop ! how would you do the some on a job in situ
Thanks Joe, every time I watch you I learn something good, thank you!
Hey Joe. Looks like you got things working REALLY well with your new video setup. Well focused and steady, good lighting and good sound. Congrats. Good info on this video. Thanks
Thanks. I'm figuring it out slowly.
I know this is a 4 year old video but I needed to make sure I'm on the right track with drilling and tapping some holes into a few round parts for a race bike I'm building. Yet again you sorted it Joe. I need to counterbore to recess the heads of some cap screws into the parts so this technique is just the job.
Oh, and my Bridgeport head rattles like crazy too lol.
Thanks again from the UK.
im not a machinist but i have a mill and I have a very specific need to drill an angled hole. Its for gas port in a virgin rifle barrel. This video was very helpful Thanks!
Alfred Clemency make sure you take deburring into consideration.
videos get better and better. Great detail. i really like how u focus on oddball things or things that arent usually talked about but happen all the time in the shop. Maybe you can do a video on using endmills in the lathe in the future? Maybe knurling or reaming? I really liked the steady rest video. I always seem to have problems with chatter / endmill cutting way oversize. Sadly, our shop doesnt have the proper tooling for the job a lot of the time and I have to improvise.
Thanks for the videos Joe Pi
I just have to thank you again I never thought of making a flat spot or using an end mill,
I always used a guide, other part with hole it or I just didn't try to drill at any angle but a
90 degree ! If you every need another Job Please start teaching young people !!
Your easy going,simply straight forward way of presenting things is just what this
generation badly needs as most seam still lost at 20 - 30 yrs and older ! Your the Solution!
IgotHeliFever it's not the generations fault it's their parents. It's the generation that this generation had their examples set by
Your absolutely correct, spare the rod spoil the Child-sort of! I never
spanked my two Daughters - just cut their privileges & taught them
right from wrong, tried to raise them right & show them by example
what it's like when 2 people Really Love each as my wife & I do!
That mill sounds as noisy as mine, a cheap Chinese ZX50CA, with geared head. I have tried adding thicker transmission oil but one of these days I will have to take it apart and check the bearings and gear meshing if I want to keep my hearing! Love the videos and have learned alot from them, keep up the good work.
Thank you
I had to do this in 3/4 S/S nuts for a anti tamper wire. Orders were for 1,000. Came in from the side with a 3/16 4f center cut @ 850-900rpm then set up with the drill bit. Gota love an air vice!
Thanks Joe. I'm glad that I subscribed to your channel. As a newby I've learned quite a few things from you. I'm glad that you are willing to share your knowledge with me.
I had many quality guys help me along the way. Just paying it back.
I so enjoy your videos...I am a retired Aircraft Propeller Blade Technition...I have worked on many different types of Aircraft Propeller, from C130 and P3 Orion, Cessna Aircraft, Pipers, and crop dusters, and the list goes on....I Am fascinated by Your precision and downright incredible ability to make things work...The knocking sound in Your milling machine, is like a set screw has backed out of a rotating shaft and is hitting a stationary metal structure..? I am considering purchasing a small (used) lathe, and making some fun things...there is a video of a gyroscope and a few other things I am looking at also....Henry...keep up the wonderful Work You are doing...
OK well done. This is one of the first techniques I learned as an apprentice journeyman 45 years ago. Make a flat before you drill. In my case it was clearance drilling and counter boring for 4-40 socket head screws on the edge of .75 diameter copper bar clamp. 3/16 dia. end mill (as flat and c'bore), center drill, 1/8 clearance drill. de-burr, done. Point, you can use non-center cutting end mill if you can enter the workpiece from the side, X or Y axis rather than Z axis as shown. in the video'
Joe Pie, thanks for sharing. That technique convinced me. Keep making these vids please. I refer friends to your vids because you demonstrate and explain well.
Thank you.
I think my Bridgeport was even louder. I rebuilt the top end last month. It's probably just a bushing repair. There's plastic bushings on the motor pulley ( on variable speed machines) and the front variable speed pulley. But on my machine nearly every bearing felt like it had sand in it as well, so I was glad I did the whole top end - just a couple hundred dollars in parts, I got a great understanding of how the machine works and the nearly silent running machine was the reward.
Time is my enemy. I'd love to do that. That machine hasn't been quiet for some time.
I also second Jame's recommendation. It could just be the plastic bushing the spindle drive pulley. I've heard that's a common source of noise in older machines.
It is, but getting the motor off is a BITCH
Just to go a little further to accommodate an odd sized hole you can trig out in infinite number of offsets from the hole center in order to achieve a near perfect match to the drill size required (if necessary). 3 steps per quadrant will usually suffice if the end mill is close to the desired hole diameter. Thanks, by the way, for giving me an outlet for what has become useless information now that I have retired.
What we need is a sort of Peace Corp where retired guys can fan out and share their tons of information with younger guys wanting to learn. It is a shame the amount of hard won information that is lost every day in the world as guys exit the work force, no matter how well deserved.
I don't think it will ever be useless information. We hobbyist are always in need of tips from you old masters. Any tip you guys can give is priceless information to pass on to the next generation of machinist.
Super useful. I have done the mill cutter in a Jacob's chuck and had it pull into the job and ruin it, causing me to invest in an er collet which has been a blessing.
Everyone is different, but I am not a fan of endmills in chucks. I do it once in a while if I am counterboring aluminum and there is already a hole, but otherwise, you are not going to catch me finishing an 80% lower on a drill press.
I’m a new subscriber and very new at machining. A hobby in my retirement. Love your way of thinking and vast experience. I own a very low end King mill, belt drive with stacked pully,s. On one occasion while changing speeds, I encountered the exact same rattle. Turned out I over tightened the belts. After the tension on the belts was adjusted, the rattle was gone. Who know, maybe something to check. Thanks for the videos.
If your mill has one of those sliding levers in the front of the head up top for back gear, sometimes the bushing that rides in the inclined slot can wear down and cause the gears to rub inside. If you have that type, check that bushing.
Joe, I use this trick often but I would make sure and give a caution. Not everyone out there has a Milling Machine and my try this on a Drill Press. It's not a good idea to do this in a Drill Press as the Endmill will often walk, reach the edge of the hole, dig in and break off. You used a Center Drill after the Endmill as one of your steps. For Drill Press users, try the same thing except skip the Endmill and use the Center Drill as step one. You can go deep enough with the Center Drill if you use frequent Peck cycles to let the captured chips fly out of the short Flutes on a Center Drill. If you go deep enough, you will have a full circle to start your cut with a Drill and there is the starter hole created by the Center Drill to keep everything centered up.
You will have to be very patient. The centerdrill 2 flute design will have a greater tendency to walk than an end mill. Its the angled tip of the centerdrill and angled surface that will increase deflection potential.
Hello Joe,
I have enjoyed all of your videos and learned a lot from them too. You also have a good presentational style. Keep 'em coming.
Ian.
Great tip!! I have used the end mill trick. But using the knee to control the feed is priceless.. P.S. I had a drill press making same noise, ended up the set screw on motor pulley backed off allowing it to rattle on the key way...
Hey Joe, I just caught this video today; figure you've got that noisy milling machine sorted by now... but if you've got any other maintenance/repairs needed, I'm moving to central Texas this year and would be happy to give a hand in appreciation for the fine content you keep putting up
Another Great video Joe- the head on my mill sounds similar. When you find out what it is - let us all know with a repair video. That's exactly how I do angled holes or holes on round stock - you need a flat.
This was good lesson for me. Thank you and greetings from Poland.
The auto-generated closed captions referred to the mill rattle as 1) Music, 2) Applause
Nice video, exactly what I needed to know. Thanks!
cool stuff, thanks for sharing this.
can I ask though why will and end mill wreck a drill chuck?
Cheers
oh and what was the knocking?
...Nice to be the first...
Hi Joe - thanks for this video. I knew to make a starting pocket for this holes, but to use the quill for a better "feeling" is new to me.
Thanks again and keep going on.
Tom
Will do. Thanks.
I like the tip that you made for bringing your work up to the End Mill to eliminate the chattering, great idea, thanks for sharing
It works very well. The quill bounce is almost entirely eliminated.
Great tip (using an end mill) for drilling on a slanted piece, Joe. I never would've thought of that. Thank you!
I just got my grizzly 16x31 combo last week setting up and truing up this week love your videos learning a lot from your videos thanks
Good job Joe. Why would you want to go slower with the center drill than the end mill considering surface fpm at the center drill?
Good stuff Joe! Congratulations on passing 10k subs.
ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin. I am flattered by the support. I enjoy the contact with the world. Pretty cool.
Joe Pieczynsk: This is one of those, "I thought everyone knew that" subjects. However, there might be some that will experience an 'ah ha' moment and benefit from this video. I'm not so proud that I can't admit I've learned or have had my memory jogged from some of your videos.
I will support Martin Vernon's comment concerning the spline and spline socket rattling. Probably caused by a slightly bent spline shaft. This will cause the knocking your mill is making. Good video and well explained.
Thanks again Joe. This helped out greatly with some Sten gun builds and tube holes that are required.
Joe I would have done it the same way you did.... With one variation. Even if I were using a face cutting end Mill, I would plunge cut only down to the point of where I had a full diameter flat..... And then I would have walked it out to the side in order to ensure that the surface the center drill would encounter would be dead flat. I'm used to working to aircraft tolerances and I would have to minimize any chance at the center drill would walk even a couple of thousands off center if it encountered a convex surface left by a simple end Mill plunge.
Also, to minimize the drill walking as it broke through the backside I might have pre-drilled a 1/8" pilot hole all the way through, and I would make sure that the final sized drill would have a split point..... So that the linear pressure on the drill would be reduced. This would help to minimize it from walking as it broke through the other side.
All in all, you've made a great video here!
Hi Joe,
Great video as usual.
Just one comment......
Since I stopped using centre drills for anything other than drilling holes in which I'm going to use a centre, I've never had the tip break on one.
Spotting drills all the way!
What ever works, stick with it.
Thank you Joe, another clever solution to a problem often encountered!
Good Tip, thats how I do it. Can I request a video? One area I am very uneducated in is the naming of different metals. I often hear people on TH-cam refer to '4140' or '316' or in this video '17.4'. Can you give any explanation as to the where the numbers are derived from and how you would go about choosing what grade to use for a component. At home I just use what ever I can get hold of and at work we don't use any common materials so ive never had to study it. Cheers
I'll look into this one Crispin. Good suggestion. Coming from a medical background, I can say the 17-x series stainless steels are heat treatable. I was surprised at that one. 17-4 cuts great and heat treats easily. Ends up at around 44C rockwell.
Great video, I like the tip, Id probably try to finish the whole with the end mill, that should be interesting. As far as the noise goes, I got the same one, and I finally fixed it! Ear plugs...take care and keep making vids!
What would you do if you had an odd size hole like say 17/64" or 9/32" for which you don't have an end mill of the same diameter? Would you be forced to use a 5/16" end mill to do the 'footprint' and then switch to the desired drill bit or is there another technique? BTW I really enjoy that you use manual machines to do your videos instead of relying on NC/CNC machines. Knowing how to use manual machinery provides a solid foundation for a person to move to computerized machines. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Use the next size up if the part allows.
Nice tip.....the best message to me was "take your time" "take your time".....as a young man working as a mechanic it was beat into me beat flat rate.....I am always going TOO FAST.......
Do it nice, or do it twice. The way of the universe. Good to hear from you Chuck.
Thank you for the great technique. What is the best way to de-burr/chamfer those holes?
I use a flat file to address the surface and usually a 3 corner scraper or a buffer to break the edges.
Joe, Thanks for the video, another new tool in the box. I think my mill is a sister to yours... she's a rattler too! :) Take Care
Useful tip for drilling on an offset. I to don't like the idea of using an end mill in a drill chuck as I've been told the vibration set up in the cutting process is enough to work the chuck or the end mill loose. I've never tried this but can always remember my instructor tell us about this. I had a bench drill given to me a long time ago - it too sounded like your machine, when I looked for where the noise was coming from I found the belt had been repaired with a metal link joining the belt. The belt had been repaired with a twist in it. I ordered a new belt but in the meantime I flipped out the link and replaced it with out the twist. The machine ran quietly without the vibration.
Yes, I tried it Outlooker 251 - despite reading a warning about not using an end mill in a drill chuck.
I had just started to learn engineering and had a brand new small drill/mill. I had a very small flat to put in the side of a piece of drill rod (for a set screw engagement). I would use a very SMALL end mill, so what would be the harm - I reasoned. I could have easily mounted my end mill chuck - but I had been drilling holes you understand. Anyway, I had hardly touched the work when the chuck let go of its arbor....
There is an old saying that says that experience is what you get when you get noting else out of an endeavor. I have a little round gouge on the top of my mill vice's front jaw (where the end mill hit it) that I call my "experience mark"! Every time I see it I remind myself to listen when experience speaks. Joe has the experience and that is why I have subscribed. Thanks Joe!
What a pleasure to watch this. Good job!
Thank you.
All good stuff Joe ....... I guess a quill helps ! Be great to see a video of your mill head tear down and refit .....I'm sure there are Kent of noisy mill heads out there. All the best Mat
Thats a good idea. I've never done it before, so it might be a good project.
Curious how you would find the center (x axis) to drill the hole in the right spot on the angled piece?? Great videos! 221
th-cam.com/video/wS1043KWm-M/w-d-xo.html I hope this helps.
Interesting technique Joe. How would you suggest actually locating the hole in the angled piece of stock? With the round stock an edge finder can be used and the position of the hole set using the DRO. Say you wanted to drill a hole 2" in from the end of the angled stock, how would you proceed?
I did a video on that a while back. Check the library for the the same title. locating the hole in the angled piece of stock
I'm just getting started - have really enjoyed your videos so far. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thanks for watching!
Joe, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Great video!
Hi Joe. Please excuse the dumb question, but is there any reason why you couldn't do the whole job with the end-mill, and save on the tool changes? I would have thought that it would break through cleaner on the back side than the drill bit would.
I only asked an hour ago, so give the man a chance ;-) He has a day job after all.
I would say it's down to cost of end mill vs twist drill and length of tool available also maybe
There is no reason you couldn't finish the hole with an end mill, but plunging an end mill is historically not known to give a precision hole if its the first tool to cut. Following a drilled hole with an end mill to true up the hole is not unusual.
Hi Cap'n
Thanks for another nice practical problem solving Video. Had done this before, but U explain and do it lots better Feeding with the Knee.
Will give Your method a shot in future.
Would have been nice to see how U would centred on the Cylindrical without the DRO, which most of us don't have. I know U would say use the Centre Finders and the Mill Dials, but is there another method ??? Just thinking out aloud. Don't mind me.
Oh well, we have the CDC Tool for that.
All the best
aRM
You can use a dial indicator to sweep either the body of your cylinder, or the surfaces if you have a stop to use. Just be sure to pickup the high spots both vertically and radially on each side. Easy.
Sounds like a good video.
Hi Joe, great vid as per usual. I'm not trained as, nor do I work as a machinist. I call myself a "machinist as required", haha! I'm wondering how you calculate positioning the end mill so the center of the hole is where you want it. I can figure it out on the round bar by touching of on the side with an edge finder and moving to the correct spot (hopefully called out on the drawing). But how is it done on a flat piece set at an angle if the hole has to be positioned to line up with a mating hole? As the angle changes this mystery calculation also changes. Hope that is clear as mud!
th-cam.com/video/wS1043KWm-M/w-d-xo.html This is one way. A tooling ball gets the job done too.
Thanx Joe, I knew you'd know how. I just got a new pair of glasses today. Your ear pieces look really short to me, what's up with that? Are they comfortable that way?
They are. They fit my head like a glove.
Hey Joe, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! thanks Mike
Simple well explained solutions, great channel, thanks Joe ;-)
A rising table is also “a wonderful thing” but lots of mills don’t have them. How does the technique adapt to that?
Walk it down with the quill stop/ A little at a time.
Any tips on chamfering the eliptical hole equally all the way around ?
Thats a nagging problem. There is a tool for that, but I've never tried it. Its called something like an elipto bur.
Found it... Elipto Master...for $200-300 I think I will skip that step :)
Good sir let me say first you are bible of knowledge,keep doing videos like that-little tips and tricks and some common knowledge maybe not so avalable to everyone !
my question to you is gow do you drill a 90° hole in a pipe without a dividing table ?I cant go trough with a drill since i will encounter second curve,if i move it to do it from top side it wont be 90° anymore,and my starting drill or endmill are not long enough to hit the second wall of pipe to make flat spot.Any idea?
another great piece of info! a follow up question - how to chamfer an elliptical hole (other than manually filing/stoning)?
That is a problem for all of us, but I believe there is a tool called an elipto-master that addresses this problem. www.deburrmasterinc.com/elipto-master I have never used one, but hear they yield favorable results.
Joe, maybe you mentioned this and I missed it but why couldn’t you side mill into the angled surface to create the step or pocket for the drill bit. I am new to machining, just got an import lathe and mill and I’m fascinated by machining. You and TOT are amazing resources. Thanks!
That would absolutely work, but that type of feature has to be acceptable for the part. Creating a shelf leaves a safer perimeter than a plunge cut.
Thank You for taking the time to teach .
Hey Joe, thanks. I just have a Grizzly mini mill and cant raise up the table, I have a ER 20 setup and can use the fine adjustment instead of drill press style operation, any tips or just peck at it? Don't know about your mill but sounds like some excess backlash of gears in drive, and it sounds like $$$, good luck. God Bless Ya, Dave
Thank´s for sharing your experience. I´m a beginer chinistma , well almost, just 5 years in the trade. that noise on your mill may be the bearings. on another subject, I see you´ve been in Nayarit Mexico at "el Gordo" , I live in Mexico at a 4 hour drive to Nayarit.
Saludos desde Mexico
If you go there, bring your own bottle opener. Great seafood. Thanks for the comment.
Am I correct in thinking that if you needed a “land,” or maybe it’s a “shoulder,” for the head of a fastener to rest on could you use an appropriately sized end mill to create the “land” and then drill the hole in the center of that area?
Yes.
Joe, I don't know where to ask this, so here goes :- I am being asked at work to machine an awkward part. It is an aluminium CNC machined car gearchange paddle from a steering wheel, and it needs a tiny bit of cosmetic machining to change a - sign to a + sign. They want me to stick it onto a flat surface with body filler to hold it in the correct attitude and then clamp the flat surface to the bed. Then manually machine the alteration on our shop Bridgeport clone. Is this normal practice? Sounds like a shortcut to get out of a hole to me rather than machine another one. Would you describe this as standard practice, as I have not seen this clamping system mentioned anywhere!
You would be surprised at how many different ways I have seen and personally held a part. Epoxy in a baggie, a sand bag....you name it. As long as the cutter load doesn't out shine the setup, it should work. Id personally let the body filler harden up first, and probably suggest a perimeter ring of some sort so it doesn't crack when you clamp down the paddle. Take small cuts and good luck.
Thanks for the prompt answer and reassurance. I will use common sense and small cuts, and shed loads of well mixed filler.
Roger Crier- Jewelers, Gunsmiths, Bladesmiths and Engravers of these small, random-shaped items grip them in their vices using a product called Thermo Loc. According to the MSDS, Thermo Loc is a blend of proprietary thermoplastics distributed by Glendo Corp and available for sale on their website www.grs.com. Thermo Loc is produced in round sticks approximately 0.25" in diameter & approximately 8" in length. It softens to a pliable "putty when heated in a microwave oven to between 140-158*F. Once shaped around the object, the margins of the Thermo Loc and be fashioned to create edges that can be firmly gripped in a vise after the thermoplastic cools to a hardened state at room temp. This should offer you a very flexible solution for work-holding on small/irregular parts that need to be machined. Cheers- John Visalia, CA
Nice demo, Joe.
Question: why is using a center drill instead of a spotting drill common practice? I seem to recall hearing that center drills were designed for drilling the hole to support the tailstock center. The purpose of the smaller diameter hole to prevent the tip of the center from bottoming out and keeping the center from seating as well as providing a reservoir for lubricant.
Are spotting drills a more modern invention perhaps? Just seems curious because the small diameter of the center drill can be fragile, especially if used to try to start a hole on an inclined or round part without milling the flat as you demonstrated.
Are your pulleys tight on the shaft? Sounds like a setscrew has loosened and some play has developed between a pulley and a shaft.
Richard Freeze, I was always taught to use spotting drills for pilots as well.
I use both. If you have a hand ground drill and the center is off, it may be the first thing to make contact on a spotted drilled feature and jump around. I think the center drill has the edge because the starting load is farther out and its not a full cut until a reasonable depth is achieved. Just my opinion and experiences talking.
That makes sense, letting the lips of the drill align rather than the point.
Joe, had the same noise on a Mitoyo knee mill last week. It was the bearings on the motor side of the head, on the spring side of the variable pulley. They develop that odd noise from bad wear or completely dry of oil.
The Mitoyo mill had oil spouts I soaked with medium weight oil and ran the machine without load for roughly 30 minutes.
Turns out all spouts were bone dry which made the bearings noisy.
I suggest a heavier weight oil in your oil spouts followed by running the machine at varying rpms without load (goes without saying check the health of the belt as a flat spot makes the same noise).
Let me know if it work.
It turned out to be the plastic spline shaft bushings on the motor drive shaft.
Hi Joe, great video as always. Great tip but however, not everyone has a milling machine and endmills. How would you go about doing it with a standard pillar drill or even by hand if the need arose. Say you needed to do it on your trailer or caravan chasis ?
Hi Dave. If I had to do that, I'd drill a hole in a piece of material and mill the angle on that part. Clamp that part to the area where you need the angle hole and use your clamped piece as a guide. It may take some prep, but it would get the job done. Is a pillar drill a drill press?
Hi Joe, Yes Sorry I forgot you Yanks call things differently. A Pillar drill here in England and Australia is what you call a drill press. Available in floor mounting versions as well as bench mounting. We also have them called Radial Drills, where the base is mounted on the floor and the arm with the chuck and motor on swings radially about the column and is also adjustable in and out. The work is clamped to the table and the drill can be positioned anywhere within the table area and quite often outside to parts that are on the floor. Thanks for the reply, but you still mention having to make a block using a milling machine that a lot of people do not own. Regards from a HOT Adelaide in Australia @ 42 C.
I play with both for a living. 2" hole, or under 1/16" in Nasty! Joe, We have the same lathe, just generations apart. I always went towards the chuck. One lathe needed direct reverse. I was young, but made it work. Basics are gone in schools. It takes dedication from a teacher, to keep up with the latest. We don't need computer guru's Just a kid that thinks this is cool!
great video Joe could this technique be used on a drill press and if so how would we go about doing it scene you can't put a end mill in a drill chuck thanks for sharing your knowledge
raymond woodring. if you have the means you could make an end mill holder/collet.
basically a sleeve made out of something like mild steel so the hardened chuck jaws can grab it. use a set screw to secure the end mill.
but remember, a drill press uses a taper to secure the chuck, side pressure like you will get in this operation will likely cause it to come apart at speed.
I wish I could suggest an alternate method, but drill chucks on drill presses weren't designed for end mill loads. It may work for you if you creep down to depth by small adjustments on your quill adjustment nut. I am going to guess it will jump around quite a bit. You won't know unless you try it, but its really not good for the machine.
Or, redefine your end mill as a flat ended drill and carry on regardless. Loads are axial, so a drill chuck will work just fine, it is any side thrust that is the big NO-NO for drill chucks, not only for holding problems but also you tend to loosen Morse tapers.
edit I just read some more comment/replies and see you have mention tapers.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge, you mentioned its a bad idea to stick an end mill into a chuck, can you tell me why that's a bad idea. I get that you would loose some accuracy but what else would be the problem. Thank you
End mills have hardened shanks which will dull the jaws of a drill chuck. And because you've got hard against hard the mills tend to spin in the jaws. The damage done lessens the chuck's ability to hold drill bits with sufficient locking force.
True....and most drill press chucks are pressed onto a tapered shaft intended for direct axial load. Any side load could cause the taper to release.
I've been thinking about this the past couple days. Glad this video popped up
For through holes,l would it be appropriate to use an annular cutter for this kind of thing? Seems like it would cut as a plunging endmill rather than a drill so it wouldn't walk to the side.
I've never tried that. Its worth a shot.
awesome vid Joe, ill have to try this on my mill :) 2 questions though.... 1st: my mill is only a quill feed, there is no knee on the mill so I have to unlock the head from the main support and crank it up or down and then tighten it back up, there is the quill for the z axis... for my mill, is my only option to use the quill and set the lock for a little bit of drag to help with hop and chatter? or is there another method you recommend? 2nd: ive been looking for a DRO kit for a while but would like to hear if you have any good recommendations....? and where to get it. thanks. mike.
Hi Mike. Keeping heavy drag on the quill and stepping down slowly sounds like your only option. I have always had AccuRite digitals and trust them. Check MSCdirect.com or go directly to AccuRite for a quote. There is also a thing called a Trav-A-Dial if the DRO proves to be our of your price range. I think Southwestern industries sells them.
If you have bad problems with chatter, despite the drag, you might try the folded square of rag (denim works well) soaked in cutting oil trick. You put this on the workpiece and mill through it. It preloads everything and adds damping as well, because the tool cannot easily cut through it: it has to be worn away, so it fills up the relief angles. Works a treat for other tricky ops, like big countersinks or counterbores in stainless steel, or using a conventional twist drill through thin sheet metal (without the rag, you get a lobed hole like a Wankel rotor shape)
Your drill chatters less than my wife, so that's a blessing to hear.
Once the pocket is formed using an end mill do you continue (for center drill & twist drill) to use the pressure on the quill but advance into the material via table lift or simply advance using the quill alone? Thanks
Once you have established a flat plane using the end mill, drill it normally using the quill.
I know this was published almost 2 years ago, but have you figured out & fixed the mill noise yet? My draw bar has a slight bend in it & it makes quite the knocking noise, more with some collets than others. Pull the draw bar out and turn on the mill. If the noise goes away you've found yourself a cheap fix with zero down time. Here's hoping it's that easy.
These machines have plastic shims around the drive splines. When they go, it knocks.
Joe, I understand that using a mill of a different size than the drill bit would leave a trace detail. Would there be a problem in using a smaller sized mill and bit, as a pilot hole, then follow up with the correct sized drill bit to remove the trace and end up with the intended dimension? Would there still be a tendency for the bit to wander on the second drill pass?
The single sided contact caused by the slanted surface and the smaller hole would still cause the drill to walk. Unless its very soft material and your drill is very rigid. Overall, go bigger.
So then how would you tap an angled hole like this? Especially for a small tap, getting it started on-axis and cutting the first angled section seems like it would be a real challenge.
Make the starting counter bore the size of the tap major diameter. The tap will then start on a flat surface with full perimeter contact.
Hey Joe does your machine rattle as much as it sounds piece. Any chance we may see you do some changing out of what ever.
Really like you vids.
Cheers
Ian
Hello Ian. I am sure its the plastic bushings on the front vari drive shaft. Its a bit different procedure than the rear, but the rear is posted under my "mill repair video" It wasn't a bad project, just a bunch of unknowns. The second time would be a walk in the park.
Hi Joe, another great informative vid. I don’t know how old it is but have you fixed that noisy drilling machine yet? I had one with similar rattle and difficult to say but the one I was using had a loose cooling fan on the motor.
I replaced the rear spline bushings, but the front is more involved.
Hi Joe,
Nice holes... My mill also needs some maintenance work in the head... :(
Cheers, Pierre
Hello Pierre. I may dig into it when the dust settles. Video material.
Excellent video. I am learning lots...
Joe,
I do not own a Milling machine, only a Drill Press. Can I use the End Mill without doing damage in my Drill Press? I like your method! I do happen to own many End Mills from an old Lathe my Dad used to have - most brand new.
You risk disengaging the chuck from the morse shank from the interrupted side load. I would think your handle would bounce considerably. If your setup is rigid and you have a guide hole of some sort, you could probably get away with it.
Best videos on the web. Ever thought about selling some of those advanced innovations shirts on your site? Would happily rep in NC!
really enjoy the great vids. you are doing a service to the world. and dont worry about that machine it will let ya know when its time to fix it.
Thats what I'm afraid of. That usually happens at the worst possible time too.
Joe, Thanks again for the exposure. 135 degrees included for stainless steel?
I like them better than the 118
Can you elaborate on not using a end mill in a drill chuck? I didn’t know that would be an issue. I bought some end mills so I could drill a flat bottom hole in copper.
Would the end mill work in a cordless drill if the drill was in the screw/clutch mode?
Normally chucks are seated on tapered arbors intended for direct inline axial loads. End mills produce side loads and may unlock the taper. Chucks also don't offer the support an end mills requires so the chatter or dancing around will be amplified, not to mention the unintended load on the chuck jaws. Its just not a good practice.
I know about the side load on drill chucks and the end mill being used in them, but even if your "drilling" as you did here with vertually no side loading on the chuck or mill, you still dont abvise it?
@@timenlow443 Although there is no linear side load, there is an impact side load from the interrupted cut on the angled surface. Its a problem waiting to happen for taper lock chucks.
Probably way over thinking this but if you are making this hole to put a fastener through don't you run into issues with the head of the fastener protruding above the surface?
I am assuming the hole fits the body of the fastener not the head.
Now IF that is the case, do you go in with a larger end mill to do the counter-bore or to create a flat so as to counter-sink?
IF you are creating a counter-bore does a regular counter-bore tool have enough length on its pilot to center in the hole as the angle maybe such it can only engage a small part and not be centered.
What can go wrong if you are threading an angled hole, for example the sample Joe did on the round, only the middle part of the hole would have full threads...
Answers...
Hardware sticking out would definitely depend on the hardware, but usually it does.
Yes to the larger end mill for the counter-bore.
A standard counter-bore tool may have enough lead if the offset isn't too far off center
And..true on the threaded hole observation. Only the full diameter section of the hole will yield full threads.
Most shaft collars are made this way and the design has been the same forever. Select your threaded hardware carefully and you should be OK.