Star Trek III: The Search for Spock Retrospective/Review - Star Trek Retrospective, Part 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- Star Trek Retrospective, Part 4: Previously we've chronicled how Star Trek made it to the big screen with The Motion Picture, how it achieved success with The Wrath of Khan and now we come toStar Trek III The Search for Spock.
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00:00 Intro
01:39 Leonard Nimoy and Star Trek
05:27 Development
07:37 Klingons and the Klingon Language
15:33 Production
23:40 Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
27:43 Release and Reception
28:28 Outro
#StarTrek #StarTrekIIITheSearchforSpock #StarTrekRetrospective - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
The language segment of this video was so cool to watch! It must be so cool to invent a language!
Imagine the incredible brains and imagination of JRR Tolkien in making up THREE different languages AND a written alphabet for all 3 of them.
@@indy_go_blue6048 The man loved language, not any one language, but language itself. He enjoyed doing it, and you can tell that from the quality of the results.
Lowkey made me wish that I had become a linguist lol.
@@NixonRules963 There’s still time
"They needed to do something different."
Pitch guy: *So hear me out -- -- time travelling whales!*
Producer guy: Time travelling whales are TIGHT!
Time traveling Pregnant whales.
Yeah, shoot it.
@@MINKIN2 air tight. 🥁
And now all starships have dolphin crew members overseen by a pair of whales. Cetacean Ops.
Hey I like the voyage home... it may be because it’s the first ST film I saw.. well, after generations
5 minutes in and I'm already trying not to tear up about the death of Nemoy
Nimoy, not Nemoy
I have watch WoK countless times and my eyes brim with tears every time.
There are always possibilities, Spock said. He was always our friend. He's not really gone...as long as we remember him.
Ah yes, Lenerd Nemoy, who played Spoque
I just farted.
Even though Spock coming back takes away from Wrath of Kahn's emotional climax. There are a lot of sacrifices and long lasting consequences to bringing Spock back that become issues for the characters in the later films and even to TNG. That's smart writing for a difficult problem.
Bringing him back doesn't lessen the impact of Wrath of Khan in any way. Spock was dead. That happened, and it had far-reaching consequences. One of the consequences is that Kirk and crew risk everything to get him back. Spock is also changed by the experience. He's not the same man. Those around him aren't quite the same either. And in saving him, they lose the Enterprise. I rank the trilogy of films, Star Treks 2-4 to be one of the best story arcs ever put on the big screen.
@@fakecubed One of my favourite all time trilogies too
As a kid when i watched Star Trek III for the first time i only knew Christopher Lloyd as Doc Brown and Judge Doom and was already a fan of him by that point. His performance as Klingon Commander Kruuge was really intense and impressed the living hell out of me as a 8 or 9 year old kid. He did feel dangerous and really like the perfect Klingon commander. Ruthless, tactical and brutal.
I would have preferred James Almos and they said he gave the better screen test.
Yes he was great
Man he was great as Judge Doom, I still get the creeps.
Reverend Jim
He killed Kirk's son!!
The destruction of the Enterprise was one of the most heart-rending moments in Trek history. You could hear the stunned disbelief in the cinema when I saw it on a first showing.
Possibly. But it was just a stunt. And like bringing back Spock, they brought the Enterprise back at the end of the next movie.
@@sandal_thong8631 But it wasn't the same enterprise though - losing the original MEANT something.
@@Paul_1971 If they had gotten a scout-class ship with a crew of 12-20 and did special ops missions, then that might have meant something.
If Yeoman Rand had been the yeoman turned into a block and crushed, in "By Any Other Name" never to return, that would have meant something.
This? No. Just a short-term stunt. Same with them parking inside the space station. If they parked outside, their stealing of the Enterprise wouldn't have meant more than Spock stealing it in _The Menagerie, Part 1._
@@sandal_thong8631 Jesus why can't you just enjoy it for what it is & stop putting a downer on it for other people who do enjoy it.
I love the fact that at 19:52 you show Nimoy directing, cigarette in hand, and immediately cut to the soundstage burning out of control.
I almost wish there was a comic book adaptation of the original Star Trek 3 script, just the idea of Vulcans trying to leave The Federation (due to the Genesis device) just sounds so cool.
Shatter’s performance when Kirk was forced by Sarek to relive watching Spock’s death was just heartbreaking. One of the best moments in the franchise.
The stealing the Enterprise scene is one of the best things in film history.
William shatner lended a hand fighting the flames because...of course he did.
Building up his cred for Rescue 911.
Lol, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who started the fire just for the attention.
This movie has always been one of my favorites, because as much as I love Spock, it's nice to see that the crew can get things done without him. Spock and/or Vulcans were too often a deus ex machina.
And "stealing the Enterprise" may be my favorite sequence ever.
They should have had one more scene with Uhura using her transporters to stop a security team from beaming aboard the Enterprise. That was always a plot hole to me.
We now have the luxury of knowing the entire ST story line and can now watch these movies back to back. However, you have to remember that back in the early 80s, most people did not have a VHS player or cable and other than STARLOG magazine, we had no way of knowing which direction the story was going to go in. So to fans, Spock was dead for 1 1/2 - 2 years until you could go and see ST III. So I think the return of Spock only seems cheap now, but back then after a long time of having no Spock, it was like, "Thank God he's back".
How very true, I figured Spock's conciousness survived to Saavik or something else. But Spock's Gensis rebirth and David Marcus murder was a true cheat as of Enterprise demise.
That's exactly how it was. I remember he was gone and thinking it was over for Spock, how could they do that!
Yeah. tell me abut it. The fans are saying the same thing with the return of a dear friend in Star Trek Picard. I won't mention names :)
Thats not how you look at it. Not even close. When you are involved in a story the time between movies doesn't count at all
Why do people leak spoilers? Just spite and pettiness? Foolishness.
Your retrospective series is an exceptional and enlightening examination of the franchise. The quality of these videos exceeds "professional" documentaries.
Agree! Brilliant documentary! Congratulations
Yes, I agree. Incredibly well done. 🙂
Must agree wholeheartedly
Agreed.
The destruction of the Enterprise is, to this day and for me, one of the most heartbreaking moments in all of Star Trek. I remember seeing it in the trailers as a youth and begging my mother (who knew just as little as I did) to confirm what I was seeing wasn't what I was seeing. That there had to be an explanation for it that didn't end with her (the Enterprise) destruction.
"Don't call me tiny."
"Up your shaft".
"This is fantasy!"
Genuinely baffled at how many leaks there were with the Star Trek films in an age before the internet. Been noticing a pattern with most of your videos. How did the leaks even spread?
Back in the day there were much longer paper chains for memos and script notes etc. If someone in that chain was friendly with a fan group, they could easily pass on copies of those memos or just relay the info to someone in the club. That info would then circulate among the fan club mailing list and spread from there.
Rumor is that a disgruntled Roddenberry was the source of many of the leaks, since his input was being ignored by the production team.
@@astra_official4179 after getting into this series I can definitely see that
Before social media, before blogs, before websites, there were fanzines and newsletters, printed on something called paper.
Nobody cared as much about spoilers back then, I've got some old Starlog and Starburst magazines and it's crazy how casually theyd discuss Star Wars spoilers theyd just be dropped into the article with no warning!
Edward James Olmos would have been a great Klingon.
Yeah! I can’t believe they thought Doc Brown would be imposing. He just looked wiry
@@MartinPittBradley imposing as in theight. Olmos is 5' 9, whereas Lloyd is 6' 1.
Shatner is 5' 10, so I could see why they'd go with a taller actor.
@@paulheap1982 Doc Brown might be 6’1”, but he’s a rail. I think Olmos standing on a box would have worked better. Just my opinion.
@@MartinPittBradley and Olmos is noticeably thicker? Plus the costuming well hid that anyway.
Oh wow, what a thought.
My gosh Christopher Lloyd was so iconic in this. To be honest, this could easily be my favourite role he's played, just because of the unexpected menace and gravitas he puts into the character. And the way he spoke Klingon just really paved the way for all future portrayals, imo.
Fully agree with you on David, he really was so lean on characterization, and it makes full sense why the Enterprise's death hit so much harder, since we'd gotten to know her across decades (even if her form shifted a bit in that time). Kirk's whole extended family plotline felt a bit crowbarred in for me, and that feeling continues until his so-called history with his partner, Antonia, an inclusion that I just never bought (despite how much warmth Shatner tried to put into the scenes). On the other side of the spectrum, whereas, I was fully convinced by Picard's stories of his family, which was given a lot more respect by the writers and was allowed to stretch through many years of stories.
I always assumed that you'd have invested more in David if Kirsty Alley would have remained as Saavik - that extra connection back to the previous film, and the better chemistry between the two actors glimsed in that previous film, would have helped alot I think.
Maybe some additional scenes with David & Kirk, or keeping his mother around would have helped too.
Essentially Kirk & David had too little screen time together & so we (the audience) would have benefitted from either seeing that expanded, or having multiple other characters care about his death, not just Kirk alone - it's a lot for Kirk to carry, which Shatner almost managed, but more help was needed.
You can understand Nicholas Meyer's stance on the idea of bringing Spock back. He had invested so much effort to give him a great death, there's no way he would want to see it undone.
That being said, part III really is more about the solidarity of the crew and their willingness to risk their careers and lives to get their friend back.
I would agree with Nicholas if they just ham-fistedly explained away why Spock was alive, but it was really well executed to my mind.
Also, Imagine Christopher Lloyds dismay on walking in and discovering that some maniac had created an actual working language that he needed to learn phonetically.
No chance to just make a few grunts and noises! 🤣
STIII is right behind Wrath of Khan for me, the 2nd best Trek movie. It feels most like a good TOS episode. Nimoy understands Trek better than Meyer; he also gets a better performance out of Shatner. This movie is really a character study of James T. Kirk, showcasing his best qualities and his swashbuckling tendencies (including a Kirk-fu fight). It is also a demonstration that the best part of humanity is its illogical, emotional side--things like loyalty and friendship--and it's really perfect that without this humanity, Spock would never have been saved. STII demonstrates the heroism of Spock, embedded in his logic: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. In STIII, this is turned on its head. The complementarity of Spocks' logic and Kirk's humanity, as depicted in STII and III (neither Spock nor Kirk would be alive without the other, nor would evil have been defeated without both of them) encompasses why Kirk and Spock make such a great team.
I think it was a mistake to introduce an alien philosophy: Vulcan Logic, and then tear it down at every opportunity. In many ways it is a better way than ours. While it saved the Vulcan people from brutal warfare, it could be partially used to control humanity's rampant illogic and emotionalism.
Ending religious fanaticism comes to mind. I liked to say the difference between a barbarian and a fanatic is that the barbarian reads no books, but the fanatic reads one. But then the fanatic doesn't really read one book, but just believes what the preachers say.
Also today we have people who reject mainstream media as a source for facts and news. Just yesterday I said that violent crime in the 1970s and 1980s was high, but dropped pretty much every year in the 1990s, and 2000s, but the other person didn't believe me. During COVID the rise in crime rates has returned to the 2010s, not the 1980s, but ever since the 1990s, the local media has presented the news by the phrase, "if it bleeds, it leads" making people think crime rates are still high. Too many don't want to know facts that contradict their feelings, or don't know where to get them.
@sandal_thong8631 but then you have the flip side "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - the central message people gladly take away from The Wrath of Khan - unless you have emotion & empathy, which instead lead people to, as part of the majority, be willing to make sacrifices they can more readily afford, in order to help those less fortunate (rather than turn everything into a matter of "majority rules").
That's the message of the 3rd film, as conveyed by Kirk to Spock at the end - "you sacrificed for us out of logic, we sacrificed for you out of love" (because they could, and their irrational emotions dictated that if they could, they should) - it was not "logical" for them to have risked their own lives for him, but it was human.
I agree, that David wasn’t very well developed and we weren’t really attached to him, since he was kind of a pain in the ass for most of the previous film, then now revealed to be kind of a dick in this one. But that Death scene, that spine-chilling scream and of course Shatner‘s heartbreaking reaction to it... that was moviemaking gold imo. Plus it also triggers Kirk’s master plan of sacrificing the Enterprise. If this were a baseball game, it would have been a close one, but there are definitely two legendary home runs in here (stealing the enterprise and the entire sequence from David‘s death to the destruction of the Enterprise) that will be forever remembered... well, until they are eventually drowned in time. Like tears in the rain, eh?
I've seen things you people couldn't possibly imagine. Starfleet cruisers on fire beside the Eye of Mutara. I've seen transwarp drives sputtering in the dark by the Spacedock gates.
@@BogeyTheBear Something like that. :o)
@Sprocket List 🇬🇧 Yeah. All this is made all the more tragic by Merrit Buttrick‘s Death a few years later. Even after he had made a guest appearance on TNG alongside the actor who played Joakim in TWOK.
Nexis 6.
Odd that they were so interested in the idea of Starfleet Academy or a Next Generation, and killed off two of three such characters introduced: Scotty's nephew and Kirk's son, but not Spock's apprentice, Savick.
Shatner's reaction to David's death is some of the best acting in the whole franchise
I love this new retrospective series, always so happy to see the latest episode up.
Thank you for this one. To the even number thing: I love Star Trek and have not only thought of this movie as good but an essential part of a trilogy. This movie being the middle of a story. Star Trek 2, 3, & 4 are essential together as a story. Then, 6 as a post trilogy 4th movie. I like the story continuity and call backs to in all four movies. The Motion Picture and 5th movie are, to me, extended TOS episodes like TV movies.
Some of the cast were upset with the anti-Klingon racism in the story. I can imagine Kirk's bitterness about the Klingon's being pretty much in denial for the death of his son and destruction of Starship Grissom. But it totally overlooks his experience in the first Klingon story, "Errand of Mercy" where they are forced to resolve their differences peacefully and Kirk is told that one day humans and Klingons will become fast friends. Kirk didn't need to be that way to advance the story.
I'm glad they brought Spock back. It gave me his favourite line and epitomizing his stern focus on the mission in the face of almost guaranteed failure.
"I've been dead before..."
Paramount: Let's increase security to prevent plot leaks. / Marketing: Oh, we put the scene of the Enterprise exploding in trailers. Was that wrong? Joking aside I truly enjoy TSFS it has some of the best lines in Trek film that showcase the depth and heartbreak these characters experience in making decisions in the moment. Kirk: My God Bones...what have I done? Bones: What you had to do...what you always do...turn death into a fighting chance to live. / Sarek: At what cost...your ship...your son. Kirk: If I hadn't tried..the cost would have been my soul. Powerful stuff Trekkies.
Looking back, it's like Spock's death: Just a stunt to excite audiences, but undone in the next movie. I liked to imagine instead of getting the Enterprise back, Kirk and his crew are given a Starfleet version of the Bird of Prey: a scout class vessel to cross space, go in, get a dirty job done, and get out.
Another excellent retrospective Rowan, well done. Looking forward to your retro on The Voyage Home, and The Final Frontier, which I hope you'll go to town on.
i've been watching these back to back - this is so much work and dedication - a great series- super interesting
Watching these after Ivory watched all the movies except for I can't find Star Trek the first one so I'll be digging around for that
This video is a ton of fun to watch. I very much Enjoyed the break down of the early development of the Klingon language. Great job digging up that old footage, and thank you for doing it!
The Search for Spock is an incredible film.
it really is. easily my favorite trek film. christopher lloyd was incredible.
Yes it is. My favorite. Because the various complexities of interplanetary brotherhood and trust beyond uniform and oath, drives me forward in the face of these uncertain times, full of liars and narcissists, I am emboldened still at how resolute Spocks colleagues were dedicated in restoring him to life, and in so doing, sacrificing storied vessel of livery, family, even duty, to make it happen even though chances were slim for their success. If only I had people of good character such as these in my life. I'm not even sure that they even fucking exist anymore...
No way! Three is a dud. It that was a commercial follow up to the best star trek movie ever: Wrath of Kahn.
Star Trek Three was a money making venture whereas Two was the artistic redemption of the failed Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Two was a distillation of the very best of the 3 season of the original series. Two is sheakspheren in nature. Three is akin to a Disney fairytale where dead returns to life -- fantasy.
@@joeboxter3635 - You’re clearly suffering from a Mugatu bite. Star Trek III is epic. It gives us a story of loyalty and friendship. Friends who will sacrifice their careers and even their lives if necessary, to save one of their own. It gives us the Bird of Prey. It gives us the death of Kirk’s son. It gives us the destruction of the Enterprise, the greatest portrayal of a Klingon ever (as well as a great fight to the death with him), and the triumphant return of Spock.
By the way, TMP is fantastic too. Star Trek 1 through 4 are awesome.
@@joeboxter3635 - I neglected to mention that 3 also gave us the Excelsior. What a design. The movie is packed with goodness.
Shame Olmos didn't get the role involving the new language. He worked very hard to develop the street language featured in Blade Runner and obviously had a passion for such things.
He would've been a better Klingon.
Like most I have seen countless Trek docs. However, this was incredibly engaging. Your love of Trek is infectious so much so I wanted to watch the movie straight after, even though I could recite the script.
Thanks for posting. This is my favorite TOS Movie. I never understand why its not more highly regarded. It features one of the best segements in a Trek film (Stealing the Enterprise) and it cements that these aren't just commanding officer and subordinates but actual friends off duty. Love this film.
These retrospectives are fantastic and so well put together. Thank you!
I remember reading somewhere (possibly in the book about the making of "Star Trek2:The Wrath of Khan") that during the principle filming of that movie, that at one point director Nicholas Meyer went up to Nimoy at Spock's station on the Enterprise's bridge and squatted down in front of the seated Nimoy and said to him, "Is there some way we can leave the door just slightly open?" (for the return of Spock that is). And during their talk, Nimoy suggested that Spock could do a mind-meld on Dr.McCoy and then when Meyer asked Nimoy what would Spock say in that situation, Nimoy after thinking a moment simply said, "Remember". So although Nicolas Meyer was upset that Harve Bennett had decided to bring back Spock for a third film by having the additional footage filmed at the end of "Star Trek2:The Wrath of Khan" (footage which Meyer objected to the inclusion of at the end of the film), Meyer apparently went along with the decision by asking Nimoy prior to the completion of principle filming on "Star Trek2:The Wrath of Khan" if there was a way to leave the door slightly ajar for a possible return of Spock for a third Star Trek film and what would Spock say as Spock mind-melded with McCoy.
This information is in Nimoy's second autobiography _I Am Spock._
Nicholas Meyer has mentioned that a useful element of storytelling is ambiguity, a tendril of possibility from which the audience can latch onto and develop their own theories. Famously expressed by the mystery over why Khan keeps one glove on for the entire story.
Keeping the door open is just another way to engage the audience into the possibilities.
No, seen the photo never happened. Meyer was not involved in pick up shots on McCoy or genisis. They offered him "Trek 3" and Meyer refused because couldnt see re-viving Spock again. Nimoy looked for his oppurtunity
@@soupful . Wrong!
I learned more about language structure in the description of Klingon than in all my schooling.
At 25:07 at the top left corner of the spacedock interior you can see the model for what was meant to be the refit design for the enterprise in the motion picture but later became the crossfield class in star trek discovery. Though I may be wrong.
Perhaps it IS a Crossfield class ;)
Another brilliant retrospective video. These are so well put together and informative. Keep up the great work
I’m brand new to Star Trek (currently binging everything in release date order) and I gotta say I LOVED this movie. The pacing felt flawless, the action was enticing, the plot exciting, the acting at its peak, dare I say it might be my favorite movie yet? I’ve also been loving your videos and I’ve been looking forward to your retrospectives each time I finish a project.
Every time a new part comes out I rewatch your whole series. Another great review, thanks mate. I’ve only recently got into Star Trek, and your retrospectives are bringing me deeper into the Original Series stuff 👍
Star Trek 3: Making Boys and Men cry before it was mainstream.
Hank Hill: I didn't cry, it was just water in the exhaust
Surely Star Trek 2 is what was making everyone cry?
@@HOTD108_ ST2 made me feel agony and pain
ST3 made me cry.
@@AncestorEmpire1 I thank you Kirk...What you have done.... What I have done, I had to do, BUt at what cost? Your ship? Your son?...If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul...
I was waiting for Lloyd's Klingon character to slip in an, " Okee doke".
Or a “Great Scott”!
Man I can’t wait for your retrospective for Star Trek IV: The Whale One it’s my personal favourite Star Trek movie
Followed by Star Trek V: The Bad One
I still cry every time I watch Wrath of Kahn and I always knew he survived. I don't cry at the Kelvin timeline one though.
Horner’s score for this movie is just sublime.
I saw _Krull_ on TV a month or so ago, and it sounded like _Star Trek_ because he scored them both and made them too similar.
The fact about the Klingon ship originally meant to be a Romulan Bird of Prey Upgraded is so funny. I watched 2, 3, and 4 today (I have loved all of these just because of how connected I was to the characters of TOS watching it for the first time for the past couples months) and when I first saw that ship my mind immediately said "Wait a second, that looks way more like a Romulan ship. I wonder if these Klingon stole it with the camoflauge tech." I don't think ive ever been as nerdy but now also so proud to be nerdy lol.
I guess they decided the Klingons traded warp drive for cloaking technology and the bird of prey ship design. I thought at the time they were just being lax with regard to the mythology, like saying "Klingons don't take prisoners," when it was Romulans who didn't because they didn't have the technology in that war.
One criticism of the special effects...the scale of the Bird of Prey was off when in close up nose to nose with the Enterprise...it looks like a D7 in scale, rather than the smaller size it actually was and shown in later movies and shows.
that linguist dude is a genius for inventing a language like that
Great work again Mr. Coleman. I found your presentation of the evolution of the Klingons and their language especially insightful. Thanks.
1701 and you're doing a Start trek video.
Holy shit, didn't even notice that haha
„My god, bones… what have I done…?“
„What you had to… What you always do. Turning death into a fighting chance to live.“
My favorite trek film
Great review🫡🖖
I'll always find it funny Nimoy got to direct the movie where one of his characters was resurrected lol
I'll also always love fictional languages that had the effort put into them to make them real, learnable languages you could use in real conversations. Klingon, the Dragon Language from Skyrim, etc.
Star Trek II is my favorite of all the Trek films. The reason is simple. It's about The Friendship. Kirk destroys his career and willingly will go to prison to save his friend. That is the true strength of the film.
For me it was an Odyssey just to view Star Trek Wrath of Khan and I sat through Annie the matinee double feature , to watch Star Trek II twice that day. I had already read the novel before the movie same as SW The Emipre Strikes Back.
My friend and I bicycled to his neighborhood theater to view Star Trek III.
We stayed for a second viewing, to jeer, boo and pelt the screen with Jordan almonds.
It was a semi love but hate,feeling for the movie.
It set the formula for even numbered sequels being the better ones.
Absolutely incredible series...just amazing. Thank you for all for your hard work!
Currently re watching your retrospective series and enjoying even more second time around. I agree. There is a lot to like about this movie and it also gets a thumbs up from me............
Definitely my favorite in the movie lineup
Watching the Search for Spock as a young child is one of the most formative viewing experiences of my life. I still remember the sense of awe and mystery it inspired. Star Trek TOS was the first show I was a true fan of and I was not yet jaded towards the trope of bringing back "dead" characters. Even looking back on it now, it holds a special place in my heart. While I can acknowledge that leaving Spock dead might have been the stronger artistic choice, I just can't agree with that emotionally and I'm certainly glad we got to keep the character for many more years.
I grew up watching Star trek,Love it even to this day 2022 I remmber What age I was As time moves on great memories and what I was doing at that time in my life beautiful such a impact Its amazing , Now Make a new team William
This is the first retrospective video of yours I've seen, funnily enough for the first Star Trek movie I had ever seen. It's a great video, really well researched and explained, and well presented.
Looking forward to the next few ones, especially The Undiscovered Country - the film which in my opinion is closest in spirit to DS9 in hindsight in terms of tone and other subtle ways, and coincidentally planned and produced at around the same time (and also at the time of Gene Roddenberry's death)...
I can't believe that in all the decades I've been a Star Trek fan, I didn't know anything about the royalties dispute. That explains so much about Nimoy's seeming ambivalence.
Olmos would have been awesome. That's a missed chance. I love Lloyd a lot but I never really got behind him as a Klingon. I loved John Larroquette as the "calm" Klingon, especially after watching him later when he was on Night Court.
I am among those who don't care much for this movie, but stealing the Enterprise is one of my favorite sequences in all of the Star Trek movies. The music and SFX just all came together perfectly for that.
As always, this is an excellent retrospective. I have been looking forward to each of these after I came across the first, and so far I have not been disappointed. Please keep up the excellent work, Rowan.
This is a brilliant analysis of Star Trek III. Thank you! I was 12 when I saw it in the cinema and Spock's death had myself and my father both teary and even though I've seen this movie so much I know the lines, just seeing segments of that scene makes me tear up. Your love of and knowledge of Star Trek shines through and I'm looking forward to your future videos on Star Trek.
I always think it's such a shame that Kirstie Alley didn't return, her Saavik is the better interpretation of the character with a subtle strength that drove the young Vulcan/Romulan (though her backstory never officially included this titbit, it is still an interesting idea to include with the character) forward.
Somebody didn't know how to negotiate. Possibly when she signed on to _Star Trek II_ they didn't expect it to be any better than the previous. Once it was, they deserved a raise, but how much?
Yes, David's death does feel a little sudden and does not have the emotional impact that it should have. If David would have had one more movie, the audience would have had more time to bond with him and making the loss of him feel even harder. HOWEVER.... his death still has the right impact in full context because this film deals with loss. BIG losses. Kirk cannot get over the loss of his best friend and to get him back he risks EVERYTHING. His Ship, his Career, his Son... he loses it all and almost loses his crew too. Everyone in his crew share the same loss, except for Kirk's Son but of course they feel for him. It shows the bond the crew had for each other and how much the word Loyalty means to them. What i find more sad is that we never really saw Kirk being that much affected by David's dead afterwards in Star Trek IV and V. It wasn't until Star Trek VI when we see Kirk actually mourn his dead Son in a computer log entry.
Something however brief should have been included in Star Trek V during their engage with Sybok in the observation lounge.
@@BronzeAgeBryon Yeah! Oh man... talk about huge missed opportunity.
They used the wrong actor. Im sure he's great in a lot of things but you needed someone with a lot of screen presence. Someone who walks on screen and fascinates you
Love this movie - but I remember my brother and I sitting in the theater as the opening credits rolled and saw "Staring Leonard Nimoy" and we turned to each other and asked.. "Do you think they will find Spock?" and "I bet when they do that he will be as old as Nimoy" :)
If you think bringing Spock back in this was rather cheeky than I am curious about something. And Star Trek into darkness they kill Kurt and bring him back within 10 minutes. If that isn’t cheeky and cheap I don’t know what it is. It makes what they did with Bob here look absolutely awesome.
Good thing about watching these two years later is that I think, all the parts are done here in the future.
Space Seed, wrath of khan and search for spock IS STAR TREK for me
Well done. Can't wait for Voyage Home. Great work.
buddy on the phone; “so my wife said she needed to talk to me about something so guess I should go, man”
me; “GET OUT! GET OUT OF THERE!!!”
the language building segment is incredible! seeing him improvise new grammar is amazing
This was absolutely wonderful! Thank you so much. I've rewatched this movie so many times and never tire of it. As always Spock and The Enterprise are the most beloved characters so they had to come back for the fans. Great video and research. I love your channel. 😊
Just popped in to say I discovered this channel and retrospective series a couple of weeks ago, I love this work and I'm happily chuntering my way through the whole series. Great work Rowan, look forward to more!
True. I will never forget the destruction of the Enterprise, but totally forgot about Kirk's son.
This is one of my favourite trek movies. I could never understand why people were not that keen on it. The stealing Enterprise section of the film is brilliant.
The Destruction of the Enterprise was a truly superb work of SFX.
2:59 and yet by publishing an autobiography with such a title, and front cover, he clearly sends the message of "I am Spock"
Really of two minds about bringing Spock back. Yes it's cheap from a storytelling standpoint and should never be done under any circumstance, but it was great having him around in all following movies and TNG. The number of iconic Spock moments we'd lose made it worthwhile.
Reviving a dead character is only cheap if it comes without consequence. Spock’s revival required the crew to become fugitives and the destruction of the Enterprise itself. That’s a fairly steep cost.
Please continue these all the way through to modern Star Trek movies
I plan to :) There will be one new one once a month up to Star Trek Beyond.
It was a shame that Kirstie Alley wasn’t recast, as was the decision to film everything indoors. Some of the scenes are extremely obvious! Also, Chekov’s civilian clothes were a crime against humanity!
ILM leapt forward by lightyears, in their use of motion control and compositing. The Enterprise destruction matches or tops ANYTHING done by CG in modern films. It was also a treat to have James Horner return, with his incredible score! 🖖😀
Civilian clothes in Star Trek began a sharp descent after this haha
Same here. I never understood what the hell they were thinking when they came up with that outfit for Chekov.
Excellent video! I'm genuinely amazed how much info I did not know is in this retrospective. Thank you!
Clear from any ST fan that Christopher Lloyd's incredible performance, turned around the Klingons' as we know it today. What an actor!!
I definitely get the the concerns of bringing a character back after having them killed in such an emotional manner. I think one thing that they did well here, in that regard, was having there be a cost to bringing him back. The destruction of the Enterprise is the cost to bring him back. David's death is supposed to be part of that as well, but I don't know that it really hits very hard. A bit of this is undone with the Enterprise A showing up at the end of the next film. But the Enterprise's destruction is so well done, that I think it still works.
I was going to say, this wasn't like Into Darkness where ten seconds later the cast member was back and everything was the status quo. They didn't get out of jail free. Kirk lost his Son, he lost his position in Star Fleet forever and they all lost the Enterprise. Even having the "new" Enterprise reveal isn't really the same though. The interiors all look different and it doesn't function the same. It's broken. And Star Trek V really hammers home home how much the replacement is not the same ship. The exterior design may look similar but it doesn't function the same way and never does again, which they leverage to their advantage in STVI. Come to think of it I like how 2-6 all carry-over.
...not to mention the bridge crew throwing their careers in the toilet for a cause bigger than themselves. Yeah...it works for me. 🖖
I believe that Sarek imploring Kirk to get Spock back and the problems McCoy has after the meld and all the struggles to do the right thing for their friend and the sacrifices are well played and meted out....and it changes the arc of Spock life obviously, in so many ways.
I reeeeeeeeally didn't care too much for this one but I see why people love it
When The Wrath Of Khan was first shown in England the Chernobyl disaster had just happened and made Spock's death by radiation poisoning especially relevant. 🖖
Completely false. WOK was 82 Chernobyl was 86.
@@paulheap1982 It took a long time for films to appear on the TV in those days! It was being shown on ITV during the same week as Chernobyl.
@@grahamturner1290ah right, wasn't that clear in your comment.
i know. We didn't even get TNG til 1990. lol.
@@paulheap1982 indeed, I saw the first episodes of TNG on rental video before they came out on retail VHS and were eventually broadcast (sometimes edited) on the BBC. Good times! 🖖
@@paulheap1982 damn ... that was a fast pounce on some one .... sheesh !
Thank you so much for these documentaries! They are really fantastic!
This movie had my favorite line spoken by Shatner. "The word is no. I am therefore going anyway". This line sums up and crystalizes the character of James T Kirk. Bold, decisive, and unapologetic!
In the past he had "personal authority as captain of the Enterprise" to overrule decisions he disagreed with from ambassadors, Federation officials, and superior officers. Here it's just mutinous. And do they really need to go to Genesis? My understanding was they just needed to take McCoy to Vulcan. They didn't know Spock's body was still intact on Genesis or reincarnated.
@@sandal_thong8631 Spock knew. His consciousness inside McCoy compelled him to GO to Genesis. He attempted to hire a ship to take him there and got arrested by Federation Security and locked up in the facility that Kirk and Sulu broke him out of.
Can't wait for the the voyage home retrospective, it's my favorite star trek movie!
Workin on it now 😁
@@RowanJColeman 🖖
The final straw for Nimoy was an advert for Heineken that portrayed 3 Spocks and he only found out when a barman offered him a Heineken.
The replayability of the "Stealing the Enterprise" scene cannot be discounted. Geez, I still watch that regularly. They shoulda had Rand on-shift to see it go just as she saw it coming in... shaking her head, hehheh.
I heard it really tore up the actress when she was written out of TOS. They gave her different reasons, like Majel Barret was blonde so they didn't need two, (although Majel changed her hair in season 3), or that Kirk needed to be free to play the field.
@Rowan J Coleman - Thanks for doing these; I'm really enjoying them. Well done, sir.
Revival of dead characters always feels cheap but in hindsight I’m glad that we were able to get more Spock as a result. I had almost forgot that original Romulan Bird of Prey was painted with a bird. Great video. 🖖
But if you look at the later films, did they gain that much from him returning?
A few good laughs in Voyage Home, a couple of campfire scenes in Final Frontier (and a half brother we never really needed), only Undiscovered Country really did much with him (mainly in his scenes with Valeris).
TNG arguably did better.
In the Kelvinverse Film's he was a cheap nostalgia cameo.
Would it have been better to let his best scene (his death) stand?
Klingon security guards at the Paramount stage set heh !
I really love hearing about Star Trek III : The Search for Spock.
I don't skip III when doing a Trek rewatch. However, unlike say II, VI and VI, I also never get the urge to just watch it in a vacuum.
I love the kligon language wxplanation
Thank you for all the insights into those great movies!
I was in the theater for both Star Treks II and III, not a dry eye when Spock died. And yes, watching David die was a little lacking. But watching the countdown of the destruct sequence, everyone was kind of laughing that Kirk fooled the Klingons again. . . . we even cheered as the Klingons were lauched over the helm console. . . . . then the pan out, watching the bridge explode, seeing the iconic NCC-1701 disintegrate before our eyes, followed by the saucer section exploding. The theater was silent. . . you could hear a pin drop. Slowly you would hear muffled sobs. Then the line. . . My god Bones, what have I done. What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live. as we watched the Enterprise burn up in the atmosphere. . . . by that time, everyone was crying. It's this moment that made the reveal of the Enterprise A so impactful in the following film. We lost Spock, got him back only to lose the Enterprise, then finally we had the family back together on their home, the place where they belonged.
It looked nice, but it was supposed to be powerful enough to destroy V-Ger, like the Genesis torpedo exploding. Maybe there was a systems malfunction so the matter-antimatter didn't erupt?
@@sandal_thong8631 This is a thing, depending on which canon is followed, one destruct sequence happens as just a means to destroy the computer core and ship without leaving an incredible amount of fallout. The other is the releasing of the matter pods into the anti matter pods causing the massive destruction on which you speak
The thing about ST3 is, there was every chance of it being exactly what the voiceover said at the beginning; like, "oops, just kidding, here he is, folks, alive and well". But The Search For Spock did it right. It used the already established Genesis machine as a plot device to bring back a character who was so integral to Star Trek that I suspect that going on without Spock would have made anything after ST2 very much lesser successes. And using the Genesis device in that regard, it also sort of made 2 and 3 very interlinked, strengthening the bonds between the stories to a point where NOT bringing Spock back would have been impossible.