FYI we're getting info that the KT loot pools may be different than originally thought. There's a chance it's 2 loot pools for remaining drops after 2 ring + quest item but no conclusive data yet. I'll update this comment when we get some confirmed info. Got questions? Get answers in our Classic Roguecraft discord - now over 7K+ members: discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
Hey yo. Really appreciate your time spent on this, current near p5 bis rogue, just got TF yayy. Curious what best possible combos for troll would be, or what your opinions are in regards to TF utilization would be! If you don't respond no worries I still love you 😍
One good thing about being daggers is that going into phase 6 with DS makes it very likely you will get your absolute BiS of kingsfall + DS. Sword boys needing two weapons off KT is rough.
@@l.christoffersen7502 rng just sucks. I raided since 4 weeks after launch and never saw perditions blade drop until midway through phase 3. Currently my guild has seen 3 DS
Hi mate nice vids again, I have a question for you, I am gearing my alt rogue and I have 2 bad blue sword with 42 and 40 dps, or arlokk and other set fist weap. It worth to equip that and spec for fist? Or I have to remain sword?
@@ClassicRoguecraft thx for your reply, I see no video on TH-cam, neither a guide on internet on fist weapon rogue, so I'm curious to know why everyone don't even consider the option to make a video about fist weap rogue, i think because sword have 5%chance to proc another attack and dagger have a lot of crit multiplier on backstab, fists only have 5% crit bonus
@@matteoceccherini7810 problem is there's not many good fist options. The only raid level ones are MH from BWL and OH from sapphiron, so the options for competitive level fist weapons are super limited
Hey there!! Thank you for putting this and for doing your content with rogue. I do have 1 question its matter of OH fist weapon from Sapphiron. So I'm currently running UD rogue (sword spec) with both r14 swords I thought about respecing myself into Fist Weapon So the thing is that MH will stood same stats as sword, but major difference is OH. is it worth and is there major upgrade ( DUE talents ) I saw in total dps is increased a lot. But lets say u said to beware of CRIT CAP, so I thought about replacing my OH sword with 15 agi enchant and going 2x fist with 2x crusaders (obviously 1.5 speed will cause a lot procs ) and other off gear that im running atm to push a bit more AP and reduce crit. thanks in advance
You usually want to spec based on your MH, not offhand. Exception is human maces can move some talent points around. Personally I wouldn't go fist if you're r14 swords - it's more good for people catching up in gear, not if you have r14 already.
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks for fast reply, yea the main reason is cause I will wait some period for gressil(que), and ofc I would never do fist over swords. But its currently period when its progressing and things.
So absolute bis for non human is higher dps than human for swords? Gressil + Iblis = 1680.74 dps (human) Gressil + The Hungering Cold = 1694.33 dps (non-human)
what would be a betterr combo for a gnome sword rogue, gressil/maladath or gressil/iblis. I know i need the weapon skill but i doubt ill be next to get the THC, all tanks got it now, and a sword rogue with AQR got the THC last week.
Cool site and all with that info.. but you didnt include fully buffed, for alliance side that will change your stats alot because you get kings (10% Stats) and might.. I have a feeling the sims might look different with that (meaning weapons might be better or worse then what your sim included). Might benefits alot more from crit and hence elemental sharpening stone will be even better the more AP you get if you arent crit capped without elemental sharpening stone. And not to mention the Shout from warrs and druid buff which doesnt do anything for poison, but it buffs kings and sword spec even more. Same with horde if you get agi totem twisting I feel like kingsfall will be further down the list (since it buffs the 5/5 sword spec and elemental sharpening stone, but not poison) Besides, theres a typo which confuses people like me in part 3; Part 3 Swords/Fists: Human Rogue Note: When using dagger/fist offhand, humans should go back to the traditional 2/2 weapon expertise talent build instead of the 1/2 weapon expertise build they normally go with a sword/mace OH. >> TL;DR - Sword bis for non humans is:
ty - yeah looking into double MSA it's not double proccing unfortunately. So sometimes it can trigger procs together BUT proc rate is linked to your character and not the weapon, so you end up with still 2ppm per MSA.
@@ClassicRoguecraft i see! was kinda hyped coz i got an MSA couple of days ago and went maces for now just for it. Have had some awful luck with weapon drops/rolls and i have been stuck with Perd/Corehound Tooth. Thought it will be a good idea to go maces for now since im last on my guilds rogues for the good weapons and we havent had a single rogue sword/dagger drop yet.
as rogue hits max crt / cap. Couldnt they switch those 5 dagger points to something like maces or swords and use that as a off hand ? Extra sword swing off hand dagger main hand? only time you can ever do it?
It's 2ppm per weapon, no extra procs from what we've seen (they can proc each other but the ppm is linked to character not weapon so it's still averaging out to 2ppm)
@@mkoplan30 basically the sims listed on the text page are all correct so you can use those (since there's no additional dps gained from any extra procs off procs)
Your scoring on the fist weapons makes me wonder what you've been testing on? Because you dont have any extra weapon skill with fists. Did you factor this in?
yes I did. They're simmed as fist spec (same as sword spec but 5 sword spec swapped to 5 fist spec). You offset a bit of the loss weapon skill dps with the 5% crit gained from fist spec - it's not as great as sword spec but it still perform well when you have high end fists such as r14 and/or offhand claw from saph.
anyone tested 2x MSA by now???? i have one right now and just want to know if I should go Claw of Saph or Anub hammer from AQ as offhand now or a second MSA. (I wont take daggers or swords for now)
Dps, stats and weapon speed matter too, so while you lose dps in sword spec procs, you gain in stats and weapon speed (if you don't have a good sword offhand with high dps/stats/good speed).
@@ClassicRoguecraft Ah I get you, as faster swings for poisons/stats/dps increase on kingsfall. I think il still try for iblis, as looks/stats. thanks for the info :)
No extra procs. It can proc both together sometimes, but ppm seems to be linked to character and not the weapon so in the end it's still 2ppm base rate per weapon.
Hey Sno, you know if human wars can be content with maces? And non-human wars content with fistweps? My perspective is top performers should get bis prio, but every lesser performer(rogue or war) is making maces/fists out to be so much worse than they really are. And stop ganking Saucerboy my dude.
if ur talking between a pumper rogue and an average warrior yes the maces are 100% viable for human warrior, castigator + iblis or MSA oH is very strong if u arent getting KT weapons, infact its what im going to run on my alt warrior cause im definitely not getting KT prio there
@@ClassicRoguecraft ended up going 2x crusader with Kings and deaths sting. I just enjoy the double crusader proc so much. Then lining it up with blood fury, blade flurry and AR. Big dmg
New drinking game: 1. drink every time he comes back to 'yea so we're still waiting for MSA procrate data' 2. avoid dying from intoxication :D Jokes aside, how come human swords' bis 'Gressil + Iblis = 1680.74 dps' is less dps than non-human swords 'Gressil + The Hungering Cold = 1694.33 dps' ? Humans have to get higher numbers.
The non-human sims are that of an undead rogue, so it would have windfury on the main hand weapon. Humans are stuck with just instant poison on their main hand.
@@willbarclay3172 well then those non-human sims are named incorrectly, because all the other alliance races are non-human too (obviously)bbut without WF, so essentially not only they don't have a DPS representation, but the one they assume they relate to is actually not theirs.
FYI we're getting info that the KT loot pools may be different than originally thought. There's a chance it's 2 loot pools for remaining drops after 2 ring + quest item but no conclusive data yet. I'll update this comment when we get some confirmed info. Got questions? Get answers in our Classic Roguecraft discord - now over 7K+ members: discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
Incredible amount of work! Thanks for the guide and all the other content you share with us!
Thank you for all the work you do! I really appreciate all of the guides
When I lived in Seoul there was a similar store. Those places are awesome! 메로나
Hey yo. Really appreciate your time spent on this, current near p5 bis rogue, just got TF yayy.
Curious what best possible combos for troll would be, or what your opinions are in regards to TF utilization would be! If you don't respond no worries I still love you 😍
if you have TF would make sense to aim for gressil first, that'd be the best/easiest combination to start with
Do you know the DPS increase of the Seal of the Dawn versus HOJ or BB for Naxx? Love the intro!
if I recall correctly it's about 15 or so dps. Definitely better than both BhB or HoJ.
Always good work mate! I cant wait for some TBC data next year :)
Huge work, thanks for all of it for all the players
I love the intro! Where I live that place would be cleaned out by robbers day 1 lolol
Awesome video, ty for all the content. Love my new hoodie too
Fantastic video as usual. One item I have been trying to find is the optimum build for Naxx. What build did you use for Horde Sword build?
Thanks man! Great video as always.
One good thing about being daggers is that going into phase 6 with DS makes it very likely you will get your absolute BiS of kingsfall + DS. Sword boys needing two weapons off KT is rough.
How is that good given that the dagger never drops? I've missed 1 reset on my server and never seen it.
@@l.christoffersen7502 rng just sucks. I raided since 4 weeks after launch and never saw perditions blade drop until midway through phase 3. Currently my guild has seen 3 DS
@@nathanrebello300 i even got ds on my gnome warrior 😄
THANKS SNOOOOOOOO you are the best rogue YT channel out there. keep up the stellar work!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome store! That wouldn't fly in the US of A. People suck.
You're a beast. Thank you.
Hi mate nice vids again, I have a question for you, I am gearing my alt rogue and I have 2 bad blue sword with 42 and 40 dps, or arlokk and other set fist weap. It worth to equip that and spec for fist? Or I have to remain sword?
Arlokk is not bad if you 2 fist weapons, but I'd replace it as soon as I have a half decent sword/dagger
@@ClassicRoguecraft thx for your reply, I see no video on TH-cam, neither a guide on internet on fist weapon rogue, so I'm curious to know why everyone don't even consider the option to make a video about fist weap rogue, i think because sword have 5%chance to proc another attack and dagger have a lot of crit multiplier on backstab, fists only have 5% crit bonus
@@matteoceccherini7810 problem is there's not many good fist options. The only raid level ones are MH from BWL and OH from sapphiron, so the options for competitive level fist weapons are super limited
My guild is super cursed, haven't seen any C'thun weapons, cleared since week 1.
Saaaaaaame. It’s insane! Better change to the opposite in naxx
Same. Even before AQ was released, I was going to be first in line for DS, still haven't seen any wep drop...
Atleast the amount of weapons basically double with naxx :p
@@FlyToSafety still sucks that u gotta wear those shitty aged core leather gloves for all of classic even if you get decent daggers from naxx
@@l.christoffersen7502 same
Hey there!!
Thank you for putting this and for doing your content with rogue.
I do have 1 question its matter of OH fist weapon from Sapphiron.
So I'm currently running UD rogue (sword spec) with both r14 swords
I thought about respecing myself into Fist Weapon
So the thing is that MH will stood same stats as sword, but major difference is OH.
is it worth and is there major upgrade ( DUE talents ) I saw in total dps is increased a lot.
But lets say u said to beware of CRIT CAP, so I thought about replacing my OH sword with 15 agi enchant and going
2x fist with 2x crusaders (obviously 1.5 speed will cause a lot procs )
and other off gear that im running atm to push a bit more AP and reduce crit.
thanks in advance
You usually want to spec based on your MH, not offhand. Exception is human maces can move some talent points around. Personally I wouldn't go fist if you're r14 swords - it's more good for people catching up in gear, not if you have r14 already.
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks for fast reply, yea the main reason is cause I will wait some period for gressil(que), and ofc I would never do fist over swords.
But its currently period when its progressing and things.
You managed to test Double MSA ?
If that shop is unmanned how does the security work that no one just takes the goods? Do you have to give your id to enter the shop or?
So absolute bis for non human is higher dps than human for swords?
Gressil + Iblis = 1680.74 dps (human)
Gressil + The Hungering Cold = 1694.33 dps (non-human)
got the same reaction instantly
Don't forget non human sims are done with windfury as undead. So you're not meant to compare between the different sets of human/non-human like that.
Yeah that's just windfury papo. Human swords will do more dmg than nonhuman swords on alliance period.
what would be a betterr combo for a gnome sword rogue, gressil/maladath or gressil/iblis. I know i need the weapon skill but i doubt ill be next to get the THC, all tanks got it now, and a sword rogue with AQR got the THC last week.
Gressil + iblis. Iblis beats maladath in all situations (big gain on trash, small gain on bosses)
Cool site and all with that info.. but you didnt include fully buffed, for alliance side that will change your stats alot because you get kings (10% Stats) and might.. I have a feeling the sims might look different with that (meaning weapons might be better or worse then what your sim included). Might benefits alot more from crit and hence elemental sharpening stone will be even better the more AP you get if you arent crit capped without elemental sharpening stone.
And not to mention the Shout from warrs and druid buff which doesnt do anything for poison, but it buffs kings and sword spec even more.
Same with horde if you get agi totem twisting I feel like kingsfall will be further down the list (since it buffs the 5/5 sword spec and elemental sharpening stone, but not poison)
Besides, theres a typo which confuses people like me in part 3;
Part 3 Swords/Fists:
Human Rogue Note: When using dagger/fist offhand, humans should go back to the traditional 2/2 weapon expertise talent build instead of the 1/2 weapon expertise build they normally go with a sword/mace OH.
>> TL;DR - Sword bis for non humans is:
I'll get the typo fixed. The sims are actually done fully buffed though, as noted at the top of the page.
@@ClassicRoguecraft Oh my bad then, it only says you're including full world buffs and windfury totem.. Not full buffs :p
Have you checked the double MSA? how does it proc? Really great videos btw so much info!
ty - yeah looking into double MSA it's not double proccing unfortunately. So sometimes it can trigger procs together BUT proc rate is linked to your character and not the weapon, so you end up with still 2ppm per MSA.
@@ClassicRoguecraft i see! was kinda hyped coz i got an MSA couple of days ago and went maces for now just for it. Have had some awful luck with weapon drops/rolls and i have been stuck with Perd/Corehound Tooth. Thought it will be a good idea to go maces for now since im last on my guilds rogues for the good weapons and we havent had a single rogue sword/dagger drop yet.
how about human rogue? is iblis better than THC ?
as rogue hits max crt / cap. Couldnt they switch those 5 dagger points to something like maces or swords and use that as a off hand ? Extra sword swing off hand dagger main hand? only time you can ever do it?
It's never worth doing that generally, you're better off making gear adjustments than swapping free crit from talents out like that
haha loving the irl content man
Great info on all the different combos, thank you
Any update on 2x MSA dps? Is it worth using 2x MSA or should you use some other OH mace?
It's 2ppm per weapon, no extra procs from what we've seen (they can proc each other but the ppm is linked to character not weapon so it's still averaging out to 2ppm)
@@ClassicRoguecraft so we are looking at 69,52dps (65,36 from flat dmg and 4,17 from proc) per mace?
Thank you for quick response :) love your content
@@mkoplan30 basically the sims listed on the text page are all correct so you can use those (since there's no additional dps gained from any extra procs off procs)
@@ClassicRoguecraft thank you :D
i'd like to have a store like that around here but... wouldn't exist for very long i'm afraid :(
korea looks pretty dope
Your scoring on the fist weapons makes me wonder what you've been testing on? Because you dont have any extra weapon skill with fists. Did you factor this in?
yes I did. They're simmed as fist spec (same as sword spec but 5 sword spec swapped to 5 fist spec). You offset a bit of the loss weapon skill dps with the 5% crit gained from fist spec - it's not as great as sword spec but it still perform well when you have high end fists such as r14 and/or offhand claw from saph.
I feel bad for you , we have 7 death’s sting in the guild, im a human sword rogue and got the last one since every dagger rogue/dagg warr got it
3 weeks after this comment - my guild still hasn’t seen a single DS drop
*cries in horde dagger rogue*
Got 2 Gressils and 2 Hungering Colds in 4 kills on KT. Crazy.
msa + tf with specifiek procc gear can be very high on dps as you can get the proc to become 40%
what you eman by specific procc gear? thx
Keep it up!
anyone tested 2x MSA by now???? i have one right now and just want to know if I should go Claw of Saph or Anub hammer from AQ as offhand now or a second MSA. (I wont take daggers or swords for now)
It does proc together sometimes, but no increase in the 2 ppm per weapon (ppm is linked to character and not weapon)
@@ClassicRoguecraft ok thx man :) Love your content. Thumbsup
Surely having a dagger in the off hand in sword spec removes a lot of the dps, seeing as your missing out on the double swing procs
Dps, stats and weapon speed matter too, so while you lose dps in sword spec procs, you gain in stats and weapon speed (if you don't have a good sword offhand with high dps/stats/good speed).
@@ClassicRoguecraft Ah I get you, as faster swings for poisons/stats/dps increase on kingsfall. I think il still try for iblis, as looks/stats. thanks for the info :)
Wonder if kingsfall luck will be similar to deathsting luck haha. Hope not!
It wont, KT drops mostly weapons if you look at his loot table. The swords are what are rare to get from him
man I wish you had made a war :p My rogue is an alt and my war is my main and I love watching your content
Only for the intro was worth to watch xD
harbinger of doom or pugio in MH?
if you click the link in description it lists all the weapons 1 by 1 and shows you how much dps you gain/lose
R14 MH Mace (3/5) and R14 OH Sword (1/2 expertise) ?
Thanks for your hard work!
I was able to farm double MSA and it does not double proc.
can you test it with darkmoon card
also vanilla rumours say it procs from lifesteal enchant
does it proc same as if you were using just 1 or is it slightly higher? :o
any info on the 2xMSA?
No extra procs. It can proc both together sometimes, but ppm seems to be linked to character and not the weapon so in the end it's still 2ppm base rate per weapon.
Hey Sno, you know if human wars can be content with maces? And non-human wars content with fistweps? My perspective is top performers should get bis prio, but every lesser performer(rogue or war) is making maces/fists out to be so much worse than they really are. And stop ganking Saucerboy my dude.
Maces might be decent for them still, but I'm not 100% sure for warriors, you'd have to ask fightclub to be sure there
if ur talking between a pumper rogue and an average warrior yes the maces are 100% viable for human warrior, castigator + iblis or MSA oH is very strong if u arent getting KT weapons, infact its what im going to run on my alt warrior cause im definitely not getting KT prio there
What to enchant on kings fall????
same old, +5, crusader or 15agi are all decent options. It's in the faq in my discord
@@ClassicRoguecraft ended up going 2x crusader with Kings and deaths sting. I just enjoy the double crusader proc so much. Then lining it up with blood fury, blade flurry and AR. Big dmg
pog
he doesnt talk about the faerlina sword :(
You live in Korea?? That’s awesome! Me too!
Nice spreadsheet ! Could you also make one for warriors??😀
Fuck warriors Yellow boys all day
commenting for algorithm
Yo sno, u know any good hunter/mages that make content like you do for rogue?
had no idea u lived in Korea bro
For our guild zero AQR and zero Death's sting. Cleared every week. Top kek.
Oof sorry to hear that man. We've only seen one of each (and DS rogue quit the game, RIP)
holy shit free candy Pog
뭐야 형 한국인이었어?
Sno vlog anyone??
헐! 스노 한국분이신가? 억양이 특히함
동남아신줄
머야 한쿡인이었네
New drinking game:
1. drink every time he comes back to 'yea so we're still waiting for MSA procrate data'
2. avoid dying from intoxication :D
Jokes aside, how come human swords' bis 'Gressil + Iblis = 1680.74 dps' is less dps than non-human swords 'Gressil + The Hungering Cold = 1694.33 dps' ?
Humans have to get higher numbers.
The non-human sims are that of an undead rogue, so it would have windfury on the main hand weapon. Humans are stuck with just instant poison on their main hand.
@@willbarclay3172 well then those non-human sims are named incorrectly, because all the other alliance races are non-human too (obviously)bbut without WF, so essentially not only they don't have a DPS representation, but the one they assume they relate to is actually not theirs.