Can definitely tell these take a lot of research and time to make these videos but this is definitely my favorite series you do. Keep up the good work thank you for all you do!
Thanks Matt! There's definitely a lot more research on my part that goes on in this series .. I think the most time consuming part is figuring out how to make it easy to digest and not mind numbing😂
s90v has been here all along - for some time now. It gained a reputation for being hard to sharpen (likely before diamond abrasives were widely available for a decent price). Shiny new steels came along and overshadowed it's stellar properties. Knife destruction videos became popular and toughness became super important - why? - who knows - most EDC uses don't come close to approaching the "lower" toughness of s90v. Now it's becoming discovered again and I'm glad. It's a fantastic EDC steel - even for non-knife folks as it will simply stay sharp forever for them.
S90V is the queen of folder steels. This controversy in the comments is why cruwear is actually the King though. You can get a crazy keen edge with a smooth piece of quartz while being a fine grain powder metallurgy steel in a survival situation. It’s a low alloy steel like 3V and 4V at only 14% alloy to 86% Iron. While S30V and its evolutions are roughly 23% carbide formers and grain refiner alloying elements. 20CV and its sisters are 28%, and S110V and Maxamet are 35% alloy. This explains the chippyness as it goes higher. Even magnacut is 21% impure, yet it’s very tough. That 2% niobium was interesting when I first saw it because I always assumed the 3% Niobium in S110V was very unique are required to give it a usable amount of toughness. Tungsten seems to help retain toughness the most though with K390 and especially Rex 45 being high alloy AND tough. Cruwear however is also rather stainless to the point where it really matters at the apex. It’s similar to Magnacut in having an element ratio intended for minimal Chromium carbides. With 25% more purity in comparison. This is the reason people gravitate towards Cruwear despite looking mediocre on paper. It literally has a potential to just be sharper than most other powder steels with less chunky big carbides at the apex. This also why many still love 1095.
How do you compare cru-wear to magnacut? magnacut has almost the toughness as cru-wear. a % or so better or same edge retention, and better stainless by far. Cru-wear does holds it's own in the stainles area, Almost a low end stainless. my buddy loves cruwear, gets keen edges on his pm2's and m2's. I find I get a better edge on my 20cv and m390 than anything. I have s30v's, S110v's, 4 zdp-189 (very good fine edge), maxamet and a couiple of newer rex121 g10 and lightweight sagae5's. I am getting cruwear in m2 next. then magnacut when it comes out in m2's I like the toughness on larger blades. and edge ret on smaller (s90v on lil native). 3v holds it's own vs cru-wear. not as new. but just barely less edge ret, and tougher. I think the new king now is magnacut it's a high stainless w cruwear specs.
Something I find is usually left out of this sort of discussion is that a tough steel can be sharpened at a more acute angle before chipping becomes an issue. A more acute angle considerably increases edge retention.
I remember a university saying they found a cobalt nickel alloy that is a super material. It's is 10s across the board. Wouldn't be surprised to find knives being made of it in 20 years.
I love Maxamet , Magnacut and S90v. I think most people just want the newest super steel. Most don't even use the knives in these steels to there potential because they are expensive for the most part and are scared of breaking them.
I like maxamet too I'm just skeptical of its durability when properly heat treated and magnacut is amazing if the manufacturer hardens the steel past 62(which is happening just not across the board).. I also have a bit of a love affair with s45vn..hard to explain why but it's been a favorite as well😂
We're in such a special time when it comes to knife steels. I think that steels like S90V and S45VN just didn't get enough traction in the luxury knife market as M390, Magnacut, or even CPM-20CV did/do. A lot of people were still hyper focused on figuring out whether they should want S30VN or S35VN, when these other steels were being waived in front of them. On the business side if you just bought a ton of M390, because you got a good deal on it, that's what you're using. Now it's just a matter of sorting knife makers by their heat treatments for specific steels. It's to the point where I'm all in if one guy is working with a steel they do amazing work with, but I maybe don't want to be an early adopter if they're using something like Magnacut for the first time.
I almost bought a Maximet Manix 2 LW two weeks ago, but decided against it. I don't demand a lot of toughness out of my knives and I only tend to use them for cutting tasks, but the thought of getting an expensive knife with such low toughness was too much for me. I went with the S110V specifically to get just a bit more toughness back while still having really good edge retention and better corrosion resistance. Being slightly cheaper was a nice bonus. If there was one available in S90V, I would have chosen that as it seems to be superior to S110V in just about every metric.
Just bought a Spyderco PM 2 in S90V. have several knives in Magnacut. I do love both these steels. next will be a Spderco PM 2 in 110v. I want to know how it compares to the S90V. I figure it might be a little bit better in edge retention but give up a little in corrosion resistance.
I think one of the things holding back s90v is misconceptions. It has become the norm for people to think a knife is dull if it doesn't shave cleanly. noting could be further from the truth. It only counts if you use your knife for actual shaving day in and day out. Impressing your friends is nothing more than a snake oil salesman parlor trick. A blade that shaves cleanly very rarely can cut anything that is actually tough as most things we have to use a knife for daily are. S90v's course vanadium carbides do not like to shave well and if it does, not for long. What it does do is obtain a very aggressive edge able to laser thru very tough materials and do it over and over again for a tremendously long time. It isn't for impressing people for show. It is for actual hard work and excels At IT! For impressing your friends, stick to a steel designed originally for making razor blades such as 14c28n. Shaving is what it is made for. It just won't cut anything real world for long. As far as not doing well in abuse test, I'll tell you the same thing that R.W. loveless or Jim Merritt would. A man who abuses his fine tools doesn't deserve fine tools. You need a pry bar, use a pry bar, need an ax, they make those. Screw driver, they make those too. A craftsman uses the proper tool for the job. A fool doesn't care. KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ years in the Craft in association with the Loveless Shop
S90v is my preferred steel for a folder, which doesn't need extreme toughness. On the other hand, I would not use it in a fixed blade or in salt water.
Great video bro. I love s90v despite only having 3 knives with it. Not easy to sharpen but I don’t care. I enjoy sharpening. I like s45vn & Magnacut as well. If treated well of course
Thanks brotha!! I also don't have many pieces in thos steel but so far it's been my favorite regardless..I do wish it was more common and less boutique but hey you never know..I'm starting to see more and more knives with it🙌
Congrats! That's going to be a great carry! For stropping s90v this is what I recommend 1. Use diamond compound (I prefer gunny juice and I'd suggest no lower than 1 micron) 2. Strop in the same direction the edge striations are going..if sharpened at an angle stropping at that angle if the striations are factory vertical than strop straight back and forth 3. Don't apply pressure at the edge, this will cause an indent in your strop and roll your edge.
@@Rollshambo I find that the high vanadium content enjoys a course edge such as 325 to 500 cbn or diamond and strop very lightly only one or two passes with 3/7 or slightly courser grit in diamond or cbn paste. This allows the vanadium to perform for a vey long time and very aggressively. KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ years in the Craft.
S90V is not just a first class EDC steel... It is a great bushcraft steel in a stout (4 mm +) "fixed Blade" Knife. It is Fine-grained, is tougher than 440-C & as tough as D2 & M2 steels with better edge apex stability and compressive strength (60-61 HRC). It handles a 16-17 degrees / Side "angle of attack" Edge, without chipping... & I do baton with it... (precisely & judiciously)
I love hearing about people's real world experiences with these steels..I hadn't thought of it in bushcrafting terms though so that's fantastic to hear🙌🔥🔥
The only S90V knife I have is a SBD Apex... So I'm kind of hesitant to put it to work. I also found it has a dull spot near the heel so that makes me even more nervous about sharpening it before using it. I suppose I could go for one of the Pyrites with S90V as a way to use the steel at a lower cost but still... it eludes me at the moment.
So far my para 2 in s90v has been great. Im cutting cardboard and tape a lot at work and in the 4 months of having it all it has touched is a stop. I did have to order an atoma to eventually sharpen it though. That's a downside
The only other one than s90v for me is my Manix 2 in s110v! To be honest, i can't tell one bit of difference in them. I know where the differences are, but for my edc task cant tell a bit of difference
That's a great question..magnacut with sub 63 hrc is essentially going to perform like d2 with better corrosion resistance..at 63-64 however it spikes that edge retention dramatically without losing a ton of toughness and at that point I'd say it would be better as an all around steel than s90v...However its not these individual scenarios that I like to judge steels on, it's based on what we can expect on a consistent basis..and because people aren't as informed as they could be I have a hard time reccomending magnacut knowing that I could just be encouraging people to buy trumped up D2 at a premium pricetag when they could have gotten s90v and even at 59 hrc experience super steel level wear resistance
@@Rollshambo Thanks. Definitely makes sense. Makes me happy on my 31 and Zaan and wary for the time being of any MagnaCut without a disclosed HRC. I don’t have any S90V yet but my collection is relatively small. More 20CV than anything else - seems to be on everything along with its twin M390!😂 Love these videos man.
Someone asked me, how do you ever sharpen it??? My answer is to never let it get dull. Many manufacturers will use a belt sharpener which will heat the edge making it brittle. After you sharpen on a whetstone by hand it won't chip as bad.
Exactly. Factory edges comes "burned". I usually never ever create burr when sharpening. One stroke one side, one stroke other side and repeat. Doing that way even my maxamet never had issues.
Yep, same here using a 1k/6k whetstone, then strop (or only strop occasionally). Nothing ever gets dull in my house :). If it's not popping hairs, it's getting the stone or the strop.
It's all about using the right stone, the right grit, and having patience. Diamond stones are definitely a must but also the more you reprofile the edge the longer it takes to reach the apex on each side to create a bur, and then once you do adequately removing that bur..outdoor55 channel has some really good content on this topic, check them out!
I've sharpened s90v more than a few times. It almost feels as if you need to "warm up" the steel before stones will cut. If you have a low grit and it feels like it's just skating switch to a higher grit until you feel the stones bite and then go back to low and do your progression.
Great vid!! Been using the PM2 S90V more and more, and I'm loving the edge retention. I've dropped it and was happy it didn't chip. That being said, i haven't sharpened it yet, and i worry about the ease of sharpening. I've got experience with V10, s30v, m390 and magnacut in sharpening. Thusfar magnacut was one of my favorites to sharpen and easier to remove the burr. I'm going to try with S90V but im also curious like you said, why this isn't more marketed
Magnacut and S90v are just different. S90v has more than double the vanadium. Significantly more wear resistance. There is no other option for a stainless steel with top tier edge retention and reasonable toughness. There is a cost - magnacut is more stainless, tougher and easier to sharpen. It just depends on what you want. I like magnacut when it's treated hard. But if someone wants to sell e a $300 magnacut knife at 60-62 HRC, why not just get a $50 14c28n knife for more toughness, same corrosion resistance and little less edge retention.
MagnaCut would be good at 60-62, but maybe not as much as it could shine, since it loses very little toughness at 64. But yeah hardness before wear resistance imo, or the apex wear is often from deformation.
It is likely that the scarcity of CPM S90V is due to the difficulty in machining it. Knife makers prefer a steel that is easier to work with as a business decision, to pump out more knives. Extremely wear resistant steels require specialized materials for sharpening (more expense), and more time required.
Some people don’t enjoy sharpening a knife for an hour and it can be a chippy steel so it can be frustrating for people getting into the knife community to sharpen
Oh for sure but there's a couple different ways to look at it. A steel like aus 8 will sharpen up much quicker, but youl have to sharpen it far more often, the more often you sharpen it the less life you get out of it and the quicker those steel particles clog your sharpening stones..meaning that you have to replace your sharpening stones more frequently. Maybe that's preferable to some but honestly with high quality diamond stones this is less of an issue these days than it used to be, I prefer less sharpening sessions and an edge that lasts far longer personally
So far I have 2 benchmades in s90v. I love the satin finishes but can’t attest to the quality of the steel because so many benchmades are so dang blunt out of the box! I loathe to put my gorgeous 940-1 Osborne on the sharpener… I don’t want to mess it up
Knife steel variation discussions are a waste of time if knife usage and tasks are not equally represented in the valuation. Too many people debating steel formulations without the critical context of use. S90V is good for some work, and shit at other types of work.
In more recent episodes I include cut test results on steels tested by Pete from Cedric and Ada who does the same tests on the same materials with different steels, it's definitely eye opening
@@croatialives Crucibal industries states that optimal hrc is 59 but 56-59 will retain 90 percent of the edge retention and actually increase toughness by %40
We will have to agree to disagree on this..while magnacut had the potential to be absolutely amazing that is highly dependant on manufacturers hardening the steel passed 62..a few manufacturers have got on board with this but the rest lean on the name without disclosing hrc..I do think this will change with time though!🙌🤙
Survive! Knives might disagree… at least in part due to quality control at Crucible. Really has me questioning the value of Magnacut if it’s potentially full of inclusions.
S90V is a soft steel. Abrasion resistance catra numbers should not be confused with edge retention. For cardboard and foam, OK, but for general use, hardness is as important. And toughness also dictates how thin of a geometry you can have along with hardness. So for edge stability, I think that around 64 Magnacut and K390 are kings. Also S90V is not that tough, I think it should not be use in thinner knives like bugout or pyrite. I any way, cheap Chinese companies know how to treat around 60, so we can have nice S90V knives for good prices. (I have the Kubey Dandy, a prybar sharpened at 25dps like this steel should be. It's of no use, too thick, but it will certainly no chip)
S90V is less popular because its really hard to manufacture and its actully not as tuff as you keep making it out to be. Throwing out names is one thing, but actully putting two steels to the test head to head is another. If you want to prove somthing is better, then do it by actully abusing 2 different steels.
It's actually been gaining in popularity recently..it's more likely that up until now it's been used less because manufacturers buy these steels in huge bulk quantities and aim for what they think will be more popular, then they have to use up all that steel all while watching the market shift and sometimes that can take years...the issue with abusing knives for testing is that you prove a lot about that specific knife and only a little about the steel since at that point I'd be testing the heat treat of that specific piece and the geometry/build quality of that specific piece while testing a different knife made of the same steel could yield vastly different results...so at that point your left just testing steel blanks which is what Larrin did..but most non metallurgists don't have the equipment and space to accurately do that..if you do I'd love to drop by and do some testing
I do believe the highest rating for that category on larrin thomases list is 10..that said its the same toughness rating as m390 which hasn't been reported to have issues breaking and shattering like maxamet or Rex 121 who both have lower toughness ratings.. also when considering how sturdy a steel is going to be things like blade stock thickness, edge geometry and blade shape will all play an important roll as well.. the screenshots of the list were based off high edge retention super steels, the common tradeoff for high edge retention is low toughness, that said if it's toughness you seek 14c and lc200n as well as 3v would all be excellent choices
Can definitely tell these take a lot of research and time to make these videos but this is definitely my favorite series you do. Keep up the good work thank you for all you do!
Thanks Matt! There's definitely a lot more research on my part that goes on in this series .. I think the most time consuming part is figuring out how to make it easy to digest and not mind numbing😂
s90v has been here all along - for some time now. It gained a reputation for being hard to sharpen (likely before diamond abrasives were widely available for a decent price). Shiny new steels came along and overshadowed it's stellar properties. Knife destruction videos became popular and toughness became super important - why? - who knows - most EDC uses don't come close to approaching the "lower" toughness of s90v. Now it's becoming discovered again and I'm glad. It's a fantastic EDC steel - even for non-knife folks as it will simply stay sharp forever for them.
S90V is the queen of folder steels. This controversy in the comments is why cruwear is actually the King though. You can get a crazy keen edge with a smooth piece of quartz while being a fine grain powder metallurgy steel in a survival situation. It’s a low alloy steel like 3V and 4V at only 14% alloy to 86% Iron. While S30V and its evolutions are roughly 23% carbide formers and grain refiner alloying elements. 20CV and its sisters are 28%, and S110V and Maxamet are 35% alloy. This explains the chippyness as it goes higher. Even magnacut is 21% impure, yet it’s very tough. That 2% niobium was interesting when I first saw it because I always assumed the 3% Niobium in S110V was very unique are required to give it a usable amount of toughness. Tungsten seems to help retain toughness the most though with K390 and especially Rex 45 being high alloy AND tough. Cruwear however is also rather stainless to the point where it really matters at the apex. It’s similar to Magnacut in having an element ratio intended for minimal Chromium carbides. With 25% more purity in comparison. This is the reason people gravitate towards Cruwear despite looking mediocre on paper. It literally has a potential to just be sharper than most other powder steels with less chunky big carbides at the apex. This also why many still love 1095.
How do you compare cru-wear to magnacut? magnacut has almost the toughness as cru-wear. a % or so better or same edge retention, and better stainless by far. Cru-wear does holds it's own in the stainles area, Almost a low end stainless.
my buddy loves cruwear, gets keen edges on his pm2's and m2's. I find I get a better edge on my 20cv and m390 than anything. I have s30v's, S110v's, 4 zdp-189 (very good fine edge), maxamet and a couiple of newer rex121 g10 and lightweight sagae5's.
I am getting cruwear in m2 next. then magnacut when it comes out in m2's I like the toughness on larger blades. and edge ret on smaller (s90v on lil native).
3v holds it's own vs cru-wear. not as new. but just barely less edge ret, and tougher. I think the new king now is magnacut it's a high stainless w cruwear specs.
Something I find is usually left out of this sort of discussion is that a tough steel can be sharpened at a more acute angle before chipping becomes an issue. A more acute angle considerably increases edge retention.
Great video, it was the first one that popped up when i searched s90v so you're definitely in my algorithm brother! Keep up the great work!
I remember a university saying they found a cobalt nickel alloy that is a super material. It's is 10s across the board. Wouldn't be surprised to find knives being made of it in 20 years.
Never say never right?!
I love Maxamet , Magnacut and S90v. I think most people just want the newest super steel. Most don't even use the knives in these steels to there potential because they are expensive for the most part and are scared of breaking them.
I like maxamet too I'm just skeptical of its durability when properly heat treated and magnacut is amazing if the manufacturer hardens the steel past 62(which is happening just not across the board).. I also have a bit of a love affair with s45vn..hard to explain why but it's been a favorite as well😂
We're in such a special time when it comes to knife steels. I think that steels like S90V and S45VN just didn't get enough traction in the luxury knife market as M390, Magnacut, or even CPM-20CV did/do. A lot of people were still hyper focused on figuring out whether they should want S30VN or S35VN, when these other steels were being waived in front of them. On the business side if you just bought a ton of M390, because you got a good deal on it, that's what you're using.
Now it's just a matter of sorting knife makers by their heat treatments for specific steels. It's to the point where I'm all in if one guy is working with a steel they do amazing work with, but I maybe don't want to be an early adopter if they're using something like Magnacut for the first time.
I almost bought a Maximet Manix 2 LW two weeks ago, but decided against it. I don't demand a lot of toughness out of my knives and I only tend to use them for cutting tasks, but the thought of getting an expensive knife with such low toughness was too much for me. I went with the S110V specifically to get just a bit more toughness back while still having really good edge retention and better corrosion resistance. Being slightly cheaper was a nice bonus. If there was one available in S90V, I would have chosen that as it seems to be superior to S110V in just about every metric.
Just bought a Spyderco PM 2 in S90V. have several knives in Magnacut. I do love both these steels. next will be a Spderco PM 2 in 110v. I want to know how it compares to the S90V. I figure it might be a little bit better in edge retention but give up a little in corrosion resistance.
Just rewatching this gem to retain more of it. Great job RSB
Best knife steel is what I can afford. I would love magnacut or even S90v but I only have one or two in 14c and one or two in D2
14c is such a phenomenal steel..it's essentially lc200n masquerading as a budget steel😂
@@Rollshambo thanks for the informative content/video 👍
I know im late here, but 14c and d2 perform as well as s30v and 20cv in my opinion, for half the price. They are good steels
I think one of the things holding back s90v is misconceptions. It has become the norm for people to think a knife is dull if it doesn't shave cleanly. noting could be further from the truth. It only counts if you use your knife for actual shaving day in and day out. Impressing your friends is nothing more than a snake oil salesman parlor trick.
A blade that shaves cleanly very rarely can cut anything that is actually tough as most things we have to use a knife for daily are. S90v's course vanadium carbides do not like to shave well and if it does, not for long. What it does do is obtain a very aggressive edge able to laser thru very tough materials and do it over and over again for a tremendously long time. It isn't for impressing people for show. It is for actual hard work and excels At IT!
For impressing your friends, stick to a steel designed originally for making razor blades such as 14c28n. Shaving is what it is made for. It just won't cut anything real world for long.
As far as not doing well in abuse test, I'll tell you the same thing that R.W. loveless or Jim Merritt would. A man who abuses his fine tools doesn't deserve fine tools. You need a pry bar, use a pry bar, need an ax, they make those. Screw driver, they make those too. A craftsman uses the proper tool for the job. A fool doesn't care.
KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ years in the Craft in association with the Loveless Shop
Rough abusers should stick with Mtech and Smith&Wesson folders. There already shit out of the box.
Bob 🎉
This is where I come to enjoy my knives and get real world, honest information from a cool AF based knife bro🎉
For me, is s90v, magnacut,14c28n. Depending on what i want. But i also like cruwear ,3v, k390 and 10v
Really enjoyed this video. Keep it up!
S90v is my preferred steel for a folder, which doesn't need extreme toughness. On the other hand, I would not use it in a fixed blade or in salt water.
Great video bro. I love s90v despite only having 3 knives with it. Not easy to sharpen but I don’t care. I enjoy sharpening. I like s45vn & Magnacut as well. If treated well of course
Thanks brotha!! I also don't have many pieces in thos steel but so far it's been my favorite regardless..I do wish it was more common and less boutique but hey you never know..I'm starting to see more and more knives with it🙌
Awesome video and breakdown. Apparently i only have one s90v and thats the Tuya Caladan.
I have a lot of 20cv and only a few in s90v..this needs to change😂
Should be getting my s90v pm2 today.... what is best stroping methods for s90v?
Congrats! That's going to be a great carry! For stropping s90v this is what I recommend
1. Use diamond compound (I prefer gunny juice and I'd suggest no lower than 1 micron)
2. Strop in the same direction the edge striations are going..if sharpened at an angle stropping at that angle if the striations are factory vertical than strop straight back and forth
3. Don't apply pressure at the edge, this will cause an indent in your strop and roll your edge.
Great question and awesome answer, thank you both.
@@Rollshambo I find that the high vanadium content enjoys a course edge such as 325 to 500 cbn or diamond and strop very lightly only one or two passes with 3/7 or slightly courser grit in diamond or cbn paste. This allows the vanadium to perform for a vey long time and very aggressively.
KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ years in the Craft.
S90V is not just a first class EDC steel... It is a great bushcraft steel in a stout (4 mm +) "fixed Blade" Knife. It is Fine-grained, is tougher than 440-C & as tough as D2 & M2 steels with better edge apex stability and compressive strength (60-61 HRC). It handles a 16-17 degrees / Side "angle of attack" Edge, without chipping... & I do baton with it... (precisely & judiciously)
I love hearing about people's real world experiences with these steels..I hadn't thought of it in bushcrafting terms though so that's fantastic to hear🙌🔥🔥
What!? So 90v for battening?? It would shatter. I feel lien it’s not nearly tough enough for bushcraft
The only S90V knife I have is a SBD Apex... So I'm kind of hesitant to put it to work. I also found it has a dull spot near the heel so that makes me even more nervous about sharpening it before using it. I suppose I could go for one of the Pyrites with S90V as a way to use the steel at a lower cost but still... it eludes me at the moment.
I'm jumping the gun here since I haven't recorded my episode on it yet but I'm going to put this out there...Divo Nip..
@@Rollshambo Oooh, good call, gotta go check if I have any money left in the hobby fund.
Agree 100%, S90V for me by far!
I have always liked s90v, and Elmax, M4, but no matter what the steel I have found the most important part is the heat treat
I love elmax , and CTS-XHP also , they are up the top of the charts for me , with the rest …
So far my para 2 in s90v has been great. Im cutting cardboard and tape a lot at work and in the 4 months of having it all it has touched is a stop. I did have to order an atoma to eventually sharpen it though. That's a downside
S90V, huh? I can support that. 👐
When making this video I realized I needed more knives in s90v and less in m390😂 actually got a good one in s90v coming tomorrow! Stoked for that🙌
@@Rollshambo all my knives either sit in a case or cut Amazon tape. I honestly don't care what steel it is 🤣🤣🤣
@@OreoDave
Made a great video man.keep up the great work
The only other one than s90v for me is my Manix 2 in s110v! To be honest, i can't tell one bit of difference in them. I know where the differences are, but for my edc task cant tell a bit of difference
There's no replacement for experience!!
Great video, keep them coming please. 🔥🔥🔥
So do you think a CRK in MagnaCut at 63-64 is a better overall EDC steel or would it just be more of a draw?
That's a great question..magnacut with sub 63 hrc is essentially going to perform like d2 with better corrosion resistance..at 63-64 however it spikes that edge retention dramatically without losing a ton of toughness and at that point I'd say it would be better as an all around steel than s90v...However its not these individual scenarios that I like to judge steels on, it's based on what we can expect on a consistent basis..and because people aren't as informed as they could be I have a hard time reccomending magnacut knowing that I could just be encouraging people to buy trumped up D2 at a premium pricetag when they could have gotten s90v and even at 59 hrc experience super steel level wear resistance
@@Rollshambo Thanks. Definitely makes sense. Makes me happy on my 31 and Zaan and wary for the time being of any MagnaCut without a disclosed HRC. I don’t have any S90V yet but my collection is relatively small. More 20CV than anything else - seems to be on everything along with its twin M390!😂 Love these videos man.
@Jayscott75 thanks for the support Jay! We have so many more of these Steel Snobs episodes to make I am just getting started🙌🔥🔥
@Jayscott75 thanks for the support Jay! We have so many more of these Steel Snobs episodes to make I am just getting started🙌🔥🔥
Someone asked me, how do you ever sharpen it??? My answer is to never let it get dull. Many manufacturers will use a belt sharpener which will heat the edge making it brittle. After you sharpen on a whetstone by hand it won't chip as bad.
Exactly. Factory edges comes "burned". I usually never ever create burr when sharpening. One stroke one side, one stroke other side and repeat. Doing that way even my maxamet never had issues.
Yep, same here using a 1k/6k whetstone, then strop (or only strop occasionally). Nothing ever gets dull in my house :). If it's not popping hairs, it's getting the stone or the strop.
@@sinepari9160 hahahaha same here i always find excuse for sharpening🤭
I searched S90v and it showed you first... lol nice
S90v all day baby!👊🏼
All facts! S90v is by far my favorite steel in my collection🖕🏽
I have a nice S90V blade but can’t figure out how to sharpen it to save my life. Have watched many videos and used diamond and regular stones.
It's all about using the right stone, the right grit, and having patience. Diamond stones are definitely a must but also the more you reprofile the edge the longer it takes to reach the apex on each side to create a bur, and then once you do adequately removing that bur..outdoor55 channel has some really good content on this topic, check them out!
I have a 20€ amazon diamond stone.400/1000 grit then leather strop.
Shaves pretty good
I've sharpened s90v more than a few times. It almost feels as if you need to "warm up" the steel before stones will cut. If you have a low grit and it feels like it's just skating switch to a higher grit until you feel the stones bite and then go back to low and do your progression.
Great vid!! Been using the PM2 S90V more and more, and I'm loving the edge retention. I've dropped it and was happy it didn't chip. That being said, i haven't sharpened it yet, and i worry about the ease of sharpening. I've got experience with V10, s30v, m390 and magnacut in sharpening. Thusfar magnacut was one of my favorites to sharpen and easier to remove the burr. I'm going to try with S90V but im also curious like you said, why this isn't more marketed
Magnacut and S90v are just different. S90v has more than double the vanadium. Significantly more wear resistance. There is no other option for a stainless steel with top tier edge retention and reasonable toughness. There is a cost - magnacut is more stainless, tougher and easier to sharpen. It just depends on what you want. I like magnacut when it's treated hard. But if someone wants to sell e a $300 magnacut knife at 60-62 HRC, why not just get a $50 14c28n knife for more toughness, same corrosion resistance and little less edge retention.
MagnaCut would be good at 60-62, but maybe not as much as it could shine, since it loses very little toughness at 64. But yeah hardness before wear resistance imo, or the apex wear is often from deformation.
Another great video 🤙
It is likely that the scarcity of CPM S90V is due to the difficulty in machining it. Knife makers prefer a steel that is easier to work with as a business decision, to pump out more knives. Extremely wear resistant steels require specialized materials for sharpening (more expense), and more time required.
I do love s90v
I bought a maxamet spyderco a while back and couldn't tell any real difference in use vs something like a sog cryo d2.
Best steel 1095 or O1.
Not if you look at the charts.. 1084 and 80CrV2 do better for cheap steels.
hi，where is that Dr's website's link?
This isn't a link, but do a search for knife steel nerds. That's the name of the website. Should be the first result in Google.
Some people don’t enjoy sharpening a knife for an hour and it can be a chippy steel so it can be frustrating for people getting into the knife community to sharpen
Oh for sure but there's a couple different ways to look at it. A steel like aus 8 will sharpen up much quicker, but youl have to sharpen it far more often, the more often you sharpen it the less life you get out of it and the quicker those steel particles clog your sharpening stones..meaning that you have to replace your sharpening stones more frequently. Maybe that's preferable to some but honestly with high quality diamond stones this is less of an issue these days than it used to be, I prefer less sharpening sessions and an edge that lasts far longer personally
So far I have 2 benchmades in s90v. I love the satin finishes but can’t attest to the quality of the steel because so many benchmades are so dang blunt out of the box! I loathe to put my gorgeous 940-1 Osborne on the sharpener… I don’t want to mess it up
Knife steel variation discussions are a waste of time if knife usage and tasks are not equally represented in the valuation.
Too many people debating steel formulations without the critical context of use.
S90V is good for some work, and shit at other types of work.
In more recent episodes I include cut test results on steels tested by Pete from Cedric and Ada who does the same tests on the same materials with different steels, it's definitely eye opening
Shoulda stayed 420v
Not when some spyderco s90v comes in at less than 58 rockwell
But it does well with lower HRC
@@Elmax17.5dps ideal range is far fromm 58 at that range you might as well have 14c28
@@croatialives per crucible's tech, 56-59 rockwell is target and ideal. Stop playing
@@croatialives You're confusing cpm S90V with M390. That composition is what suffers extremely below 59 hrc.
@@croatialives Crucibal industries states that optimal hrc is 59 but 56-59 will retain 90 percent of the edge retention and actually increase toughness by %40
Cpm cruwear anyday of the week , the real deal compared to s90v
Cruwear is good, no doubt, but 90v will hold an edge longer. but cruwear is not junk and good. plus tougher than most.
Me who carries both everyday.
MAGNACUT Everyday, allday, anyday, anywhere........sorry, s90v just is not as good......OnWard.......
We will have to agree to disagree on this..while magnacut had the potential to be absolutely amazing that is highly dependant on manufacturers hardening the steel passed 62..a few manufacturers have got on board with this but the rest lean on the name without disclosing hrc..I do think this will change with time though!🙌🤙
@@Rollshambogot an extra spyderco paramilitary 2 tanto if you are interested in a trade
Yeah, the creator of Magnacut itself said many of times on video that s90v is his favorite steel 😊
Survive! Knives might disagree… at least in part due to quality control at Crucible. Really has me questioning the value of Magnacut if it’s potentially full of inclusions.
@@WTF-Cubing survive knives is full of 💩
S90V is a soft steel. Abrasion resistance catra numbers should not be confused with edge retention. For cardboard and foam, OK, but for general use, hardness is as important. And toughness also dictates how thin of a geometry you can have along with hardness. So for edge stability, I think that around 64 Magnacut and K390 are kings.
Also S90V is not that tough, I think it should not be use in thinner knives like bugout or pyrite. I any way, cheap Chinese companies know how to treat around 60, so we can have nice S90V knives for good prices. (I have the Kubey Dandy, a prybar sharpened at 25dps like this steel should be. It's of no use, too thick, but it will certainly no chip)
S90V is less popular because its really hard to manufacture and its actully not as tuff as you keep making it out to be. Throwing out names is one thing, but actully putting two steels to the test head to head is another. If you want to prove somthing is better, then do it by actully abusing 2 different steels.
It's actually been gaining in popularity recently..it's more likely that up until now it's been used less because manufacturers buy these steels in huge bulk quantities and aim for what they think will be more popular, then they have to use up all that steel all while watching the market shift and sometimes that can take years...the issue with abusing knives for testing is that you prove a lot about that specific knife and only a little about the steel since at that point I'd be testing the heat treat of that specific piece and the geometry/build quality of that specific piece while testing a different knife made of the same steel could yield vastly different results...so at that point your left just testing steel blanks which is what Larrin did..but most non metallurgists don't have the equipment and space to accurately do that..if you do I'd love to drop by and do some testing
youre just regurgitating some shit you heard a youtuber/commenter say lol
@@peen2804 Exactly, OP’e comments are pure regurgitation not a valid, informed opinion
Doesn't look like any of the blades you showed have much toughness. 3.5 was the highest.I believe. Is that out of 10?
I do believe the highest rating for that category on larrin thomases list is 10..that said its the same toughness rating as m390 which hasn't been reported to have issues breaking and shattering like maxamet or Rex 121 who both have lower toughness ratings.. also when considering how sturdy a steel is going to be things like blade stock thickness, edge geometry and blade shape will all play an important roll as well.. the screenshots of the list were based off high edge retention super steels, the common tradeoff for high edge retention is low toughness, that said if it's toughness you seek 14c and lc200n as well as 3v would all be excellent choices
It's tough a my benchmade bug out