I think the main reason Tommen's death had the emotion point it did was because that, in hindsight, Tommen's suicide was the first, last and only decision HE made the entire time he was king, rather than a decision someone else made for him.
@@stevennorris7181 Yeah it was just so quiet and simple. No body, no splat noise so scream of someone finding his body. Just a cold, chilling silent suicide marking the end of the light and innocent Tommen, who would probably have been at least a decent king.
@@Roberta_Trevino decent? Yeah, no. Even with Cersei's death. His upbringing under his mother would have already destroyed his potential future. History has shown that the heirs of many female rulers (many of whom are very dominating in politics and their heir's life) ends up to be considered bad kings by their subjects. Why? All because they're very dominating in their heir's life and sometime even saw them as a threat that they're not even allowed to participate in the kingdom's affair. In Tommen, he's been raised to be Cersei's tool that he lost his identity. He won't make a good, independent king because of how's he was raised.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 I was agreeing with the video. We were all hoping Cercei would leave Tommen be. If she left he would've most probably been a good king. He was kind and I guess wisdom comes with age.
@LagiNaLangAko23 That's actually a character point made explicit in the books - Tommen and Myrcella are noted by other characters to be kinder than Joffrey purely because Cersei focused all her attention on her eldest.
And Dany's death should have had massive fallout, especially since she named all her Dothraki warriors, her bloodriders, so they should have been trying to kill Jon at all costs, including Greyworm and the Unsullied army. It should have been a whole new wave of chaos; you can’t kill a queen and expect no consequences. But there were no consequences for killing Dany, her death is swept under the rug in like five minutes.
@@fingolfinofnoldor3592 not to mention... "we're going to punish her murderer by sending him to where he was happiest and most free and wanted to be in the first place" "okay..we're good. we're going to just get on ships and leave without another word"
"The show ran out of time, they just didn't have enough track." Love the video, but I just wanted to point out; they absolutely did not run out of anything. HBO basically wrote D&D a blank check for as much Game of Thrones as they were willing to make--as many episodes or seasons as they wanted, with whatever budget that required--and this is what they gave us. If they ran out of anything, it was fucks.
@Jumbo Jango They should've, but they're the literal embodiment of Hollywood greed and ego. Cab you even IMAGINE being so selfish and self centered that you don't even care about _money_ anymore!? Like how is it even possible??? They didn't care about the story, they certainly didn't care about the fans, they didn't even care about the millions they would make, but they were so egoistic that instead of handing over the show to anyone else, they'd rather destroy it themselves... And for fucking what? STAR WARS!? I've yet to feel this much disgust towards any director for their directing.
@@Lalvon_Zelpharr well I mean it wasn't for nothing they will forever be known as the idiots that screwed up the final seasons that carries weight to it if I had a show I certainly wouldn't hire someone who screwed up the final season so they could start another project
@@Lalvon_Zelpharr they've basically killed they're careers lost both got and starwars and if I'm not mistaken they tried to direct the upcoming lord of the rings series and got rejected
Ned Stark only had less than 1 season to build his character and when he died, fans can still feel his death. Dany development took 8 seasons to build and her death is shit.
She should have totally told Jon she was pregnant as his knife was cutting into her. Turning one of the least powerful deaths into one of the most tragic.
Dezslock I hate those bosses in games cause I usually prepare and up rage etc for a while, then realize “we’ll crap I could’ve just fought his thing before...”
Cersei having no consequences for blowing up the Sept is one of the biggest writing failures in the entire show. What she did was the equivalent of blowing up the Vatican with the Pope inside, and the show continues without any of the peasants or nobility having a reaction? Noone cared that Queen Margerey, who had been shown as beloved by the people, died there as well? The show just moves along and hopes the audience simply forgets the implications of what happened, so they can conveniently make Cersei queen.
Can't agree more with this. She blew up the Pope, the Vatican, 1000s of people, the commander of her own armed forces, the leader of her most important ally and the most beloved woman in the city. Next season the people of Kings Landing choose to trust and believe Cersi over Danni
@Feli Aslan But that's the problem, it's not what they did, even such simple writing was something D&D avoided, making their creation of GoT worse then their adaptation
@Feli Aslan Yeah, they should've tried to either stick closer to the themes of the book or ask more questions to George, unless George wanted to allow them to try something different from the books so he can still make money of the sales of the book
The biggest difference between the early seasons and the last ones: the first ones also showed the civilians the houses rule over. Simple world-building. In the last season, the protagonists seemed to exist in a vacuum, like they were the only living people in Westeros. They only interacted with each other. It's no wonder the world suddenly felt artificial and empty.
Exactly! I rewatched each season countless amount of times, but now there's just no point, unless I pretend the show ended on season 6 with Jon at least becoming king of something... the white walkers staying as a permanent threat (since according to George RR Martin the represent global warming, and that doesn't go away), and Dany sailing to Westeros.... but I cannot erase the last 2 seasons from my memory, so I'm donde with this story, until I hear that the ending in the books defiers greatly from the show. Bran becoming king is like Having Poly in Rocky getting the world champion title after seeing Rocky rise, fall, train, and struggle... it makes no sense. And the counsel formed by Tyrio, Bronn, Lady Brienne, Sam and Sir Davos, probed not melting the Iron throne meant nothing since all they are discussing are rebuilding hore houses.... That scene only needed those recorder laughs and it would belong to "Friends"... In my opinion the destroyed the show entirely! @the_only_juan_79
@@kickowegranie3200 What if not finishing the books was a 200 iq move by R.R.Martin. because he knew d&d would fail so now everyone want to buy the books to get the better ending
@@KookShanty Season 6 was alright at best imo, had a RIDICULOUSLY stupid battle (aka. battle of the bastards) and bringing Jon to life was also a big mistake. Yes Jon was still alright in Season 6 (had his scenes and his last good Season), but imagine how good the Show could've evolved without him. In hindsight, the story would've been much more interesting without him. But the season wasn't only bad, it had it's good things for sure. It's just more the beginning of the downfall of GoT, at least it felt like that for me.
In the earlier seasons, I remember Sam being in danger and me rooting for him and hoping he gets out alive. Then in S8, I was a bit pissed he didn't die, not because I no longer liked him but because I hated the fact that so many main characters were surviving a horde of undead on top of them. They could have given a reason for his death, like him realizing half-way through the battle about the undead in the crypt, going down there to save Gilly and sacrificing himself.
Same! I used to be in the edge of my Seat during the battle of Castle Black shopping for Sam to not get hot by an barrow but now I cringe when I see him screaming with a pile of wights.
Imagine Sam dies while Jon watches-- knowing his hesitation is what truly caused Sam's death. He runs toward the NK and lunges, not thinking of the consequences. He kills the NK, but not before he too was stabbed. The NK is destroyed, while Jon is on the ground bleeding out. This death causes Dany and Sansa to bicker, ultimately leading to a falling out where Dany does not have the northmen's help for the battle of kingslanding. Arya secretly makes her way down to kingslanding to kill cersi. Jaimie follows as well, for the same purpose. In kingslanding, Dany sees Rhaegal (who was not killed at this point in my version) die from a window-- with Cersi opporating the weapon. This was the final straw-- left with no other alternative, Dany burns kingslanding. Cersi trying to escape with The Mountain by her side, sees Jaimie and is relieved. Arya is standing in the shadows. They hug, and Jaimie stabs Cersi, but it was too shallow. The mountain beheads Jaimie. Arya, realizing Cersi could still live, attacks and gets the final blow on Cersi. The mountain, realizing he was too slow, charges for Arya but is stopped by the hound. The hound and the mountain die in the same way as the show. Arya is trying to escape, but the rubble is too much. She gets caught in the path of dragonfire while trying to safe everyone else in kingslanding, her final words being, "I guess it is today" a callback to "what do we say to death? not today." Dany has taken kingslanding, but not without a cost. Greyworm has died as well, leaving Dany even more distraught and without any of her former friends. Tyrion makes a backhanded deal with Sansa. In the middle of the night, Dany wakes up to both of them staring her down. They each take turns stabbing her, similarly to how Jon was stabbed at the nights watch. They both list the names of their siblings who died at Dany's hand-- or because of her actions. People never find out who killed Dany, and Bran refuses to say anything. Drogon dies a day after, unable to live without his mother and ending the era of dragons. A power vaccum ensues, and infighting begins. The northmen, having had enough time to recover and having escorted Sansa to kingslanding in secret, take over kingslanding in order to maintain peace. everyone is scrambling, asking who will be the new ruler. In fighting once again ensues, and the north is left unguarded, so Sansa pulls out of the running. However, she wrote in a letter who she would vote for to be the new ruler. The people are asked who they want to be lead by, and there is no clear answer. Ultimately, the houses each become their own kingdom, effectively ending the game of thrones. Not the best, but it is better than season 8. This would play out over 15 episodes btw. For unaddressed characters: -Bron dies savnig Jaimie when he charged at Drogon -Misandei dies the same way -Euron dies in the battle of kingslanding -Theon dies in the long night -Juror dies in the long night -Lyanna Mormont dies in the long night -Olenna dies the same -Nymeria dies in the long night, saving Arya -Illaria Sand dies in the battle of kingslanding -Yara Greyjoy dies the same -Brienne is queens guard to Sansa -Littlefinger dies at the beginning of the season, when Bran returns and tells Sansa everything. He dies by public execution. I think that is all.
I had actually forgotten about Varys' death until the clip of him being executed showed up. He was one of my all-time favourite characters, and I completely forgot about his death. Really goes to show how forgettable and unsatisfying his arc's ending was.
@@cybele_m Then there's the fact that a bunch of fanatic Dothraki and extremely loyal Unsullied were surronding Jon Snow's means of escape, that would've certainly led to a second battle where whoever wasn't with Dany fought her fanatically devoted soldiers, rather then the Unsullied sending Jon exactly where he planned to go and commit the equivalent of suicide by sailing to an island infected by the GoT equivalent of the Bubonic Plague
I didn't forget his death. I was too pissed off. He was the ultimate puppet master for most of the show, and makes the stupid mistake of letting all the wrong people know about his true intentions in the last season. Jon is the true heir to the throne and he probably isn't kookoo banana bread crazy pants? "Hey Jon (character that is honorable to the point of stupidity at times)! Want to betray your aunt/lover who you gave up a crown for and swore fealty to? Cause I totes think you should be ruler of the seven kingdoms. But don't tell on me, 'kay?" Insert eye roll here.
Not to mention nonsensical. Varys: I am the best spymaster in the world. Also Varys: I'm going to write treasonous letters in my office right next to the queen for no reason LOL I love how they didn't even bother to have those letters do anything, either. He literally died writing pointless letters.
Jamie’s death annoyed me the most, probably because his arc was one of my favorites. And instead of giving him a satisfying conclusion to his character, they undo multiple seasons of development and send him to King’s Landing for literally no other reason than to die. For one of the most well-developed characters in the series he has one of the most pitiful deaths, in terms of both the reasons behind it and its impact on *anything* else.
they just wanted to have the umm..."cool incest visual".. when all it was was anti-climactic and a LITERAL meme. He's my favorite character, and all he did was.. DIE. I have almost not accepted it as canon because it made no sense. I have been prepared for him to die in both the show and books for 12 years now, but I felt nothing. That may be the most egregious thing to do to such a complex character. What was the point of the (serendipitous) Euron fight? He got stabbed 3 times and just walked around till he (again serendipitously) reunited with Cersei on the floor map. She goes "you're hurt omg that's so sad" when SHE LITERALLY PUT A PRICE ON HIS HEAD. That's when I started LOLing hard.
@@abhinayashankar4201 The worst thing is when he tells Tyrion he never cared about the innocent. The Kingslayer, the guy that earned his status and nickname due to his refusal to watch a king slaughter innocent people never cared about the innocent. That is just bullshit
I was sure he was going to die in winterfell, that would complete his story arc. When that didn't happen I thought he would go to KL to kill Cersei and then die, another great way to end his arc. But nooo, that was too much to ask
Sunbro Adresse not really, that’s more when we were properly introduced to them, along with how big of a threat they were. War didn’t properly start until season 8 with the only battle/conflict being episode 3
@Sunbro Adresse The FotFM was was 300 men of the watch who had no idea white walkers existed. Again, larger attacks against wildlings had been occurring for decades.
To me, the problem is this: when the series started, Game of Thrones was about... well, nobody really. It was about the conflict itself. The series didn't have a "protagonist" in the common sense of the word. Sure, it has a lot of important characters, and it even lead us to the false impression that Ned was the main man, but that's what his death is ultimately telling the audience: there are NO protagonists. This is history, not story. It's in the name: Game of Thrones. It's not about the players, it's about the game itself. That's why GoT was so compelling at the beginning. It really gave the audience the feeling of witnessing something that really happened, in opposing to a moral lesson disguised as tale. Things happened because... well, because things happen. That's the meaning of consequence, some phenomena leads to other phenomena in a series of events, where both will and chance play a role. That's how history works. Although many try to steer the narrative one way or another, shit is always happening that's against or independent of people's wills and hopes, on top of those things people worked to achieve. And even then, multiple purposes interact in intricate and mostly unpredictable ways. But writing in this non-linear multilevel way demands a highly structured thinking pattern, and it's difficult to say the least. Not everybody can pull this off. So, when the adapters started to create, well... they changed it. Beginning with season 5, the show starts to have clear and well defined protagonists. Everyone else is disposable, but we start to get that "plot armor" feeling most fantasies and action driven series have around their main characters. When you can know someone's not gonna die based solely on which actor is playing the role. It stopped being history, and now we're watching some story. And a not very well written one too, at that. Shit, they even RESSURRECT a protagonist. The high stakes are gone; long live the main characters. It was a shock. But affective memory kept the audience levels, so we got that Lost finale, which is already bad as stories go, but, boy, it's even worse when compared to the starting point. It sucked hairy sweaty balls.
It clearly had a protagonist. It was Ned Stark. Only after his death the story revealed itself as this insanely complicated power-play with many protagonists who will die if they make bad decisions. This is mostly due to how GRRM writes this story. He does not have a large overarching main storyline in mind to which every otherone has to adhear. He writes the different stories and sees what they would naturally evolve to and what they could impact, creating new stories or ending old ones where they would make sense to end, regardsless of the big overarching theme. This is also why it takes him ages to write. You could achieve a similar result if you have multiple authors writing just their own storyline updating each others how their story is progressing and applying changes to the world. Only being forced to keep consistency in the world and kinda the same overall theme (not one writing a dark novel while the other story is a disney fable). They must also not be afrait to end their storyline and switching to another one of their colleagues has created by discovering new in their story. The great thing about this is that the result woudl not be one story but rather a world with many stories. You could sell each story individually (at different prices, depending how long they are) so you can only see that part of the world which interests you and skipping stories that you don't care about. Maybe even let people go back in time and read up on a story they skipped early but now is important to another one they are currently interested in. Maybe even spanning multiple medias, kinda like halo. You have a book which reveals the story of one guy, that dies on a battlefield. You have a game that only covers this battle with a different protagonist who kills the first guy in the end, maybe by accident resulting in a revenge plot a movie covers. All while 150km south something completly different is happening in a tv-series which also acknowledes the events of the other books, games, films. This would quickly become a giant world where you are completely unable to follow everything. Like only watching Denaris scenes the whole time, then wondering where the fuck that assin popped out of, going back to watch how and why he was send and suddenly discovering a new plot about a little brat with a hot mother who gets screwed by her brother. Imagine discovering the world of westeros that way. But that would be an lifetime project for multiple people and would also be actual work for the viewers if they wanted to watch everything in a chronological order.
literally in the first... 10minutes of the series.... Ned executes a guy who he acknowledges 5 seconds after killing him could have been crazy... "a mad man sees what he sees"... Then what the fuck did you kill him for? Remember, Ned doesn't know the Walkers are back. He doesn't know for sure this guy has seen one. He then kills him and is questioned by Bran, and he doesn't say 'he was lying.', 'that was just bullshit'., 'A deserter would say anything', he says 'A mad man sees what he sees.'. This underscores that Ned had apparently realized this guy had some severe psychological trauma, but still expected a person who was incapable of meeting the social standard, to meet the social standard. So he killed him. I'm left to assume that Ned had Hodor whipped on occasion as well then. And why not? If a mad man sees what he sees, but is still responsible for the consequences of their actions apparently. And then he uses the execution of the mentally disturbed to pound his chest to his kid about how honorable he is for being the one to kill the mentally disturbed.. It's insanity that this complete moral flexability for Ned gets painted as moral inflexability. Forcing crazy people to stand on a wall is moral to Ned, but when those crazies have visions (which in this case was seeing some real shit), them leaving is immoral. Fucking crazy.
@@NineSun001 as a writer what you describes sounds fucking crazy, i don't like to say it would be imposible, but at the very least you would need to found some pretty specific people to pull something like that up and i can see real world drama or creative diferences fucking such story hard, all it takes is one disagreament
@@NineSun001 @carso1500 You ever read stuff from the Star Wars EU? Hell, american comics love this formula. I've always found diving into them super fascinating, though the inherit flaws are pretty obvious as well. Those are major franchises so I'm sure they don't carry the exact feeling you're imagining and spring from traditional stories, but you can't argue the fact they fit that description.
When Jon was resurrected: Yes! My boy lives! Season 7&8 happened: ... maybe he was better off dead than be a kneeling parrot for his lover/aunt... Ygritte's death by Ollie: Had me bawling like a child Daenerys' death by Jon: K. This is why you should have at least two guards with you -_- Jamie: I sacrificed my honor as a Kingsguard and killed the Mad King because he is a threat to everyone! I will find a way to avoid bloodshed or at least offer to compromise like I did with the Blackfish. Jamie in Season 8: I don't really care about other people, I just love my sister lol D&D: Jamie kinda forgot he had character development.
Jon Snow should have never been resurrected. He's a horribly boring character. His death is meant to be one of the best parts of the story. But because Kit Harington he has to be kept alive. Which ruins the story.
I don't get why people bash Jamie for this. All he's wanted his entire life is to be by Cersei's side. Yes, he has disagreements with her but at the end of the day, he still loved her. He knew Dany was going to defeat her so he went to try and save her life or die by her side. After making his way back to King's Landing after all the character development becoming a better person he still threatens Edmure to catapult his baby boy into the side of a fucking castle. What Jamie did at the end of season 8 was 100% what his character development pushed him towards.
No it wasn’t. It was a slap in the face to his development over the years. He said he never cared about innocents, when I remember him saying that he did in Season 3. His love for Cersei is beyond nonsensical by now because of the faces he has shown throughout.
It's been 2 years and 2 months, respectively, and I'm still not over the dragon deaths. The episodes they died in only existed to kill them (and later, Missandei) off, which sucked. I grew tired of the whole, "let's tear down Dany's world so that she can remember she's still strong on her own" bs seasons ago. It's just the same ol, rinse and repeat until crazy routine, which adds to the list of how rewatching this series will be less enjoyable.
Ikr? When the first dragon died during that mindbafflingly stupid "kidnap a zombie" quest I thought "Oh shit! This is big! It will be a huge deal to both Dany's war plans and her psyche" but nope, banging your neffew apparently makes more sense...
@@Ellisepha ahhahahaah, nothing like nephew banging to get over your child's death in the world of Dumb and Dumber! Goodness they really crapped on these characters.
I never stopped talking about rickon. I am still so bitter about this character that had so much potential to be amazing. A stark raised by a wildling.
PEACE OUT seems like he will be important in the next book, the Manderlys and Glovers among others tasked Davos with finding Rickon so they can rally around him as Lord of Winterfell
Thank you for mentioning Jamie running at the Dragon and both him and a ton surviving. That was THE moment that took me out of the show after that I couldn’t unsee how bad the show was getting.
Even worse when he comes back to Winterfell later to fight against the Night King and Dany conveniently forgets that he's the man that tried to kill her and Drogon like how many episodes earlier.
@@elfodelputoinfierno I don't know, to me it made sense that Drogon didn't kill Jon. Dragons are smart, he knew that Dany had totally lost it and had become a danger to everyone.
It was like who? Oh right. Almost forgot. If we cared about him more, if he had a true story line, then his death would have been emotional. Instead of just...oh right we don't really have a story for him so he'll die.
@@THEPELADOMASTER I kinda like this. Not everyone gets to play a huge world altering part. Maybe he was that, just a kid loved by his family. Maybe we should have seen him a little more often, just being loved and cared for, that would've helped.
@@NineSun001 but he does have a story or a start of a story anyway in the books, in the books he’s on an island full of cannibals and unicorns and Lord manderly (one of the northern lords) sent Davos to go get rickon so the north can rally round him and make him lord of winterfell in exchange they will be loyal to Stannis in the next book we’ll probably get a POV from Rickon or Orsha
That was some serious plot armor + Deus ex machinas. Guess they had to live so that they could have the Disney ending where they all lived happily ever after minus Daenerys and Jon Snow.
Honestly, as much as I love Sam and want the sweet boy to be happy, imagine if he had died because Jon ran by him in order to fight the night king. COULDA BEEN A REALLY GOOD DEATH.
I felt so cynically happy to see those two bozos didn't have an 'inside the episode' bit after the last episode. They know they can't fucking justify that dung heap.
The Night King winning, especially after the ending we got, would have been heavenly. "You played your game of thrones until there was no one left to protect it, let alone claim it. Despite the warnings and the signs, your petty squabbles led to your demise. It was just, it was true, it was inevitable. The song is sung."
@@anna-flora999 To quote J.R.R. Tolkien, "victory is victory, however small, nor is its worth only from what follows after." Some people tried to protect others, and the fact that they ultimately failed doesn't take away from that. As for everything else: yes. They spent so much time and resources and caused so much tragedy squabbling over a worthless throne while ignoring the threat from the North, meaning they didn't do anything that was worth doing, and a show that reflects that would be incredible (especially if they wanted to subvert expectations).
@@samueldimmock694 to quote sir Terry Pratchett: "Let there be goblin hordes, let there be terrible environmental threats, let there be giant mutated slugs if you really must, but let there also be hope. It may be a grim, thin hope, an Arthurian sword at sunset, but let us know that we do not live in vain.”
@@anna-flora999 Well, some of the people really did live in vain, but I suppose giving them some last-minute redemption isn't a problem. And for those who fought to protect others: sure, why not? Let them die as they have lived. Perhaps a desperate last battle to hold off the forces of the Night as long as possible and buy time for civilians to evacuate, fleeing across the ocean to find refuge perhaps in that quasi-kingdom that Dany set up (if that's accurate; I haven't actually watched the show or read the books), perhaps just wherever they can find it? But yes. I do like a bit of hope in my stories. Sometimes, the hope of trying where success is impossible, if well-executed, will work, but it's usually nice to have something a bit more than that. Otherwise the story isn't really worth telling.
I think that would've been the most GoT thing ever. I honestly wish that happened. We watch the downfall of humanity because of their own selfish mistakes. Death is inevitable.
butterpastor The original anime adaptation of Fullmetal Alchemist didn’t have the completed manga source material to work with, so Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was made years later to actually follow it. This is a turn of phrase based on that.
Rodrigo Monteiro Animated Series. Casterly Rock, Storm’s End, the real Eyrie, Lady Stoneheart, Hightower, Real Euron, Young Griff, all Starks Warging... so much things animation could bring to live
Hearing the Stark music when you talked about Ned gave me serious chills reminding me how good the show was. The last two seasons don't exist in my eyes.
Hi How Are Ya are you kidding me? Season 7 is arguably just as if not worse than Season 8, Season 6 has worse writing than the first 4 seasons but it’s still the best season since season 4.
I've spent a lot of time thinking about a parallel universe where this show ended well. Imagine how incredible of an accomplishment it would have been to take this marathon-length series telling one of the most highly-produced and daring stories ever and wrap it up neatly. It seems like fantasy shows don't get the privilege of having that kind of finale - it's ten years on and the internet's discourse surrounding Lost is still primarily "show good, but ending bad?". Maybe we'll get that satisfaction one day.
I would recommend Preston Jacobs "How to Fix" series about Game of Thrones, he takes the same plot points and start to end of the season he did it, but good god, not half assing the story make a hell of difference.
I still cant believe people thought Jon would die the same season he was revived. The battle of the bastards just had me waiting to see how he would get out of harm's way. All my friends thought I was insane for not feeling the danger for jon. But HE JUST CAME BACK TO LIFE.
Same for me, what's the poit pf reviving a character just to die few episodes later, what it bothers me is the fact that Jon resurrection never brought back again .
Honestly, if Dany's turn to the Mad Queen were better done, her giving her whole fire and blood speech would have been a great end to the show. Everybody thought she would be the one to save Westeros, so ending on her becoming queen, ushering in a new era of evil royalty would be kind of poetic.
@@razbuten Renly's a total narcissist. He probably would've been a half decent ruler at best but he shoulda stuck with Stannis instead playing into his own ego for his boyfriend.
The books won't ever be finished and you won't hear from Rickon again, anyway. George can't even figure out what to do with Jon , Dany and Tyrion, ayra, Cersei,Jaime, tommen , Littlefinger (my fave character) , margaery and the Tyrells (other faves of mine), let alone Varys and samwell, Davos etc... Rickon is so far down that list!!! He doesn't give a fuck ! He can't even manage his main characters and worse, he's added way more!!! And now the story has changed entirely! Now it's all about Dorne etc and it proves all we invested in was just filler and red herrings, he is a soap writer, not a true narrative /tome writer. He writes short stories and this is like a bunch of those .. he never expected people like you to actually expect an ending. He never intended for one. You're not an artist or a writer, you don't understand the mind of an escapist , hyper sensitive artist...he's just a regular dude. He's not a genius at all. You just have no creativity which is why you don't understand how it is to have a great talent but not the ability to follow it through... It's something some creative talents struggle with. I'm one of them and Grrm mist feel this pressure x10000, Ican see that people put Grrm on a pedestal ,which feels good but also sucks cause then you have to live up to the expectations. To put it simply.. George's hype has exceeded his abilities. That's it. It's self explanatory. There's nothing deeper going on.with George. He just can't finish. And he should have outlined his story instead of adding filler and bullshit new characters... But it's too late now and if he admits he screwed up, he loses.. he can't win because he also won't ever finish. He's actually said he won't ever fiNish. He said it was never meant to end and used Tolkien (pathetic, he's obsessed with his idol... ) As an example , to suit himself. He's just a mediocre writer who lucked out with HBO ny meeting Dan anddabe. George was not very famous before Hbo. Unlike most book authors.. That says alot. .. think.about it. He's no rowling or even 50 shades of grey lol.. he's just another nerd who got lucky. His scripts for 1980s twilight also sucked and are the worst rated in the series. He's overrated as heck.
Doran Martell, the Prince of Dorne, is killed. All the houses of Dorne do...nothing. The assassin's "House Sand?!" meet with great houses like Tyrell. The assassins are killed by the Lannisters and the houses of Dorne...just pick a new Prince. This is how the show broke for me. The world ceased to be a lived in real one and events only mattered as was convenient for Benioff and Weiss.
Dorne was such a hack job. "Yeah, uh, these bastards killed all of the ruling family because they thought the ruling family wasn't making enough power moves, despite the fact that every single one of the bastards being related to the ruling family, making them kin slayers. But we will just wave it off as weird Dornish culture, which we rarely explore or give an explanation to in the show, that allows the other Dornish nobles to fall in line."
"In stead it asks viewers to fill in the gaps that the show didn't have time to explore" You mean 'didn't care to explore'. They could have had all the time in the world but they just wanted to get it over with
Honestly, knowing that they literally had all the time and money they could ever need for the show available, just makes the end result all the more infuriating. It angered me in the same way finding out Bojack Horseman was cancelled by Netflix for no reason did. GoT ended badly because those two idiots are fucking inconsiderate, greedy and narcissistic ass holes. I will never forget it.
@@Jack-kx5rf Yes because I said they have to include *every single thing in the books*, and not that they should at least fill in the gaps they leave in the writing of the show. Fuck off with this strawmannery, if you're gonna respond to comments try to understand what the comment says please.
Ned's death also helped to establish Joffrey's character. In the beginning of the show, Ned has to execute a man for the crime of abandoning the Night's Watch. Ned explains to Jon that the person who passes down the judgement should be the one to swing the sword: Honor is in accountability and taking responsibility for decisions you make, not just ordering those decisions in a way where you don't have to get your hands dirty. The fact that Joffrey ordered Ned to be executed, bur ordered someone else to actually execute him shows him to be dishonorable, it shows him to be a liar, because he told Sansa and his mother that he would spare Ned's life. It shows that he likes to use his power, but that he doesn't care about accountability. He doesn't want to lead the nation into prosperity, he doesn't care what other people think about a situation, he doesn't follow advice, and he strikes down the moral center of the show, which shows that he doesn't care about morality or what the "right" thing to do is.
I think this whole "he who order should also be the one who smite" isn't applicable here. We are talking about a child even Theon isn't able to execute a man in one swing. So that brat would not have been able to kill Ned properly.
@@NineSun001 Sure, I mean he probably lacked the physical strength to do it. Whats more important though, is even if he had the physical strength, he lacks honor and would never dirty his own hands. He is the total opposite of everything Ned stood for. Establishing that is what makes him such a great and hate-able character
They also didnt introduce most of the new characters the last couple books did so the world got smaller and the story more simplistic with each character death
I can admit that I didn't hate his or Jorah's, I just felt like those characters kind of did nothing for 2 seasons JUST so they could die in the Battle of Winterfell
But let's say he didnt die, and arya finished night king before he finished off theon...how does that change the story at all given the last 4 episodes?
Yeah I thought Theon was going to be a far more major character in the later seasons, the idea of him standing up to Ramsay to save Sansa is so compelling, but the show felt so rushed at that point it lacked emotional payoff
The best way to end the NK's story line would have been to have him win in the North. Not necessarily at winterfell (because that feels like an unecessary, all-in battle that would preclude retreat, and which neither side would have wanted), but in some kind of pitched battle. Characters die. the Northern/Targaeryen army is decimated (not destroyed, because they sacrifice their rearguard to cover a retreat). They flee south, losing men along the way, knowing that if they do reach the south, Cersei will just order them executed and then (likely) die to the NK. That's where Arya comes in. Not fighting Wights like an anime ninja, not teleporting to the NK to kill him, but using the actual assassination skills that she has developed for several seasons to infiltrate the Red Keep, kill Cersei, and take her place to order the Lannister army to fight alongside the Starks/Targaryens. This creates the potential for tension with Jaime, who probably wouldn't condone murdering Cersei for any reason, Jon (who probably isn't down with assassination, period), and raises the potential for Arya to be killed by one of Cersei's enemies seeking revenge. Then we get the final battle between the living and the dead, at King's Landing, not at Winterfell. Maybe something happens that causes Dany to burn the city (for instance, the NK raises the dead from the city's graves and charnel pits, and they start to overwhelm and turn the civilians, so Dany burns the city rather than have it turned into Wights. Some characters may interpret this as madness. Some characters may not be willing to follow a Queen who can sacrifice thousands of civilians to win a war (even if the sacrifice was necessary). Again, potential for future tension and conflict. The living likely win, but the earlier losses (and deaths, which should include major characters) raise the possibility that they might not. Oh, and Euron chokes on a fishbone and dies a humiliating and preventable death, as befits his terrible character.
YES that last part would've been the most satisfying death for him. I literally hated him. Not because he was a hatable character like Jeoffry though, but because he was such an insufferable bore to watch.
my story would go like this. jon is face to face with the knight king. and he is clearly losing the battle. just keep this in the back of ur mind, but if u remember that one scene where samwell tarly is in the snow, a white walker passes him and keeps going. not sure why but they seem to kind of pay him no mind. while snow and NK are battling, samwell comes from behind and uses a obsidian dagger to stab him in the heart, similar to jojen reed killing the best fighter in the land, Arthur Dayne, from behind and "giving" the kill to Ned Stark during the tower of joy scene. Samwell always wanted to be a wizard, and just as he was able to heal mormont from his stone sickness, he would heal all those white walkers from their "sickness". Afterall, he did save little Samwell from becoming a white, now he finishes the job and saves them all. the first guy to kill a white walker, the first to kill a then, and first to "kill" the knight king. this next part is a bit out there, but jon snow was good at converting ppl. he was able to take a bunch of misfits and law-breakers to join him and believe in the cause of the night watch of the wall. remember at first they didnt like him, but then he became Commander. Then he was also able to have the wildlings north of the wall join his side to help protect lives from the much bigger threat of the white walkers. after samwell had turned the white walkers back into normal humans, he would, as he did before, have these "bad guys" come join him and fight the powers of king's landing. even as crazy as that sounds, its still better than the show.
I thought Rickon was becoming quite wild, as is shown in his wolf. They dropped the ball on this, but it could have been quite compelling. We'll see what happens in the books.
Well what they truly dropped the ball on was not including the Stark siblings warging which only Bran can do in the show, all siblings can warg in the books with Arya being the most gifted besides Bran as she can warg into multiple cats at the same time in Braavos when she is blinded(no problem for her) and even able to warg into Nymeria across the sea in Westeros. George was asked by a fan if it was possible to warg into a dragon, that would have been cool in the show but nope. Rickon was as wild as Shaggydog because of their close bond and youth.
It would have been great if the northerners found Rickon and wanted him to be heir and then realized he was too wild. So then some corrupt turncloaks give him to Ramsey. That would have been spicy
@Sebastian Hackembruch Grrm said himself the ending is the same. He has no end point for most Characters . GEORGE HIMSELF says this.. Rickonis another throw away who means nothing. There's like 1000 characters, and Grrm abandoned Rickon long ago.. like he has with many characters. He's a soap opera writer , he doesn't finish arcs. Ever.
Your vid speaks volumes. We see the let down and sloppy, lazy writing. (D&D) wanted to end it and they shifted characters around to fit their means. It was sooo disappointing. Could have been so much more.
The books won't ever be finished and you won't hear from Rickon again, anyway. George can't even figure out what to do with Jon , Dany and Tyrion, ayra, Cersei,Jaime, tommen , Littlefinger (my fave character) , margaery and the Tyrells (other faves of mine), let alone Varys and samwell, Davos etc... Rickon is so far down that list!!! He doesn't give a fuck ! He can't even manage his main characters and worse, he's added way more!!! And now the story has changed entirely! Now it's all about Dorne etc and it proves all we invested in was just filler and red herrings, he is a soap writer, not a true narrative /tome writer. He writes short stories and this is like a bunch of those .. he never expected people like you to actually expect an ending. He never intended for one. You're not an artist or a writer, you don't understand the mind of an escapist , hyper sensitive artist...he's just a regular dude. He's not a genius at all. You just have no creativity which is why you don't understand how it is to have a great talent but not the ability to follow it through... It's something some creative talents struggle with. I'm one of them and Grrm mist feel this pressure x10000, Ican see that people put Grrm on a pedestal ,which feels good but also sucks cause then you have to live up to the expectations. To put it simply.. George's hype has exceeded his abilities. That's it. It's self explanatory. There's nothing deeper going on.with George. He just can't finish. And he should have outlined his story instead of adding filler and bullshit new characters... But it's too late now and if he admits he screwed up, he loses.. he can't win because he also won't ever finish. He's actually said he won't ever fiNish. He said it was never meant to end and used Tolkien (pathetic, he's obsessed with his idol... ) As an example , to suit himself. He's just a mediocre writer who lucked out with HBO ny meeting Dan anddabe. George was not very famous before Hbo. Unlike most book authors.. That says alot. .. think.about it. He's no rowling or even 50 shades of grey lol.. he's just another nerd who got lucky. His scripts for 1980s twilight also sucked and are the worst rated in the series. He's overrated as heck.
Wont lie I was expecting a scene when after kingslanding was taken they show ellaria being released from a cell with the bones of her daughter sitting across from her (probably gone slightly insane). But nope. She was forgotten and probably crushed in rubble along with cerci.
The death that had the most effect on everything was Tywin's he was the only man that was capable of holding everything together. Not a single person was as capable as he was
Nah Tywin relied too much as brutality and fear and should've treated Tyrion better. Ironic. He cared so much about public image and legacy, yet left his house, that he committed so many atrocities for, to his insane daughter and underqualified son. In the books, were it not for Kevan, it would've completely fallen apart with Cersei.
@@vynonyoutube1418 Yeah cuz they wanted to make a Star Wars show that's not even going to happen now. So they basically rushed the last two seasons of the show for nothing fucking idiots
In a way I think I'm glad it was over with quickly. These guys seem too incompetent to make the show correctly no matter how many seasons they'd be given. Better a quick clear failure than a long drawn out decline into mediocrity.
I started reading the books before I watched the show, even though it was about to air the third season, and when Joffrey called for Ned's execution, I _knew_ Robb would show up with an army to save him like Theoden did in Return of the King to save Gandalf from the Witch King. It would have been perfect. Then Ned gets his head cut off and and Robb dies 2,000 pages later. I look back at that and think to myself what a sweet summer child I was. George created Beric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart because Gandalf leveling up pissed him off so much. Two of the most tragic and brutal characters in the books.
Yes I remember his death. My hearth just sacked. Imagine someone so could at telling stories that you feel the loss of a fictional character. I still rember it to this day, that is insanly good writing.
I was hoping there would be a twist. Like they would destroy King's Landing because it's such a sinful messed up place, and then they would go back to the North again. An implication that they have some sort of morality. It was never explained why they spared Sam in Season 2, for example.
Considering the odd relationship between Martin and FromSoftware it would be amusing if The Others were a bulwark against a force of magic Westeros knew nothing about because of the interference of the Maesters and that they have to cut a swath through the living to reach it because it risks extinction if tapped.
I'm pretty sure thats how GRRM will end the books. He said that the white walkers are an allegory for climate change, and jon snow and the nights watch are basically the scientist that nobody will listen too, and the threat grows unstoppable while the leadership wastes time with frivolous politics.
What if the Night Walkers won, but not everyone died? I think an incredible ending would have been if the Night Walkers won, and after crushing every army in their path and absorbing it, a small band of survivors flees south and takes a rowboat to sea-maybe Arya and Tyrion are the only main characters who survive since she mentioned wanting to see what was South beyond the map. The show could end with Arya, Tyrion and a couple others drifting at sea in a tiny boat, starving and dying of dehydration, when they spot land in the distance and the show ends. Or maybe have Sam as a survivor too and have it hinted that he’s the only scribe who bore witness to the events of Westeros.
I like how when you went through all of the 'bad' stuff you didn't shit all over it. You carefully picked out every mistake and tried to find the hidden meaning behind it, you didn't just call it bad and not give a valid reason and at its worst everything in the last season is actually okay and I feel you conveyed that very well. Great video!
Thank you! I still think the later seasons are better than most tv shows, they just lack the detail of the earlier seasons, and that’s what I wanted to examine. I’m glad that that idea got across.
The actor was also pissed about Barristan's ridiculous death. He said something along the lines of "I read the books and I was expecting to have more to do in the story"
As an aspiring writer, this video is massively informative! I often met these standards of character deaths creating cause and effect already, but you gave me insight into how that happens, and thus how to specifically funnel my story that way. I know I'm late, but I just want to say; I appreciate it.
@@Frogface91 you noticed that they just decided to kill off characters they had no use for anymore? or characters that they didn't know what to do with or were too complicated to write? lol
THANK YOU! When friends asked me what I thought of season 8, first thing I said was the night king should’ve won, at _least_ the battle of winter fell. It just feels like the most logical conclusion that viewers would’ve refused to see coming.
the cavalry rushing into their death, the trebutchets on the front line, the DITCHES BEHIND THE FORCES. I feel like they did all this stupid shit just to make it more one sided for the night king. What shouldve happened, they used all of their intellect and wit to properly lay defenses, traps, and procedures. They try their hardest to man a defense, and then still lose. To show the hopelessness of fighting head to head against an absurd power. Then, they resort to assassination attempts from that point on.
@@wicketman2339 Oh man this would have been so good :( Especially the showing hopelessness part. What we got instead was side characters that were expendable dying and basically every main character covered by plot armor and the night king defeated in the most anticlimatic way possible. Oh well..
@@wicketman2339 Yes! They could have lost the massive battle at Winterfell, resulting in the deaths of Jaime, Pod and Sam (or similarly popular characters). Then Cersei attacks to take advantage of the loss but gets beaten by the Night King too, finally being killed by a wight version of Jaime. This leaves a last desperate attack on the White Walkers by Jon and Dany on their dragons, which they barely manage to win. Jon faces down the Night King and kills him, but dies in the process - regardless, he dies with a smile on his face. You could then have Dany go mad and actually have a reason for it...or you could have her die instead of Jon, and Jon rules fairly. Either ending would have been so much better.
One of my biggest queries about the show was the lack of attention given to Jon's death. This was a guy that died and came back to life. Everyone in the nights watch and the wildling's saw this or knew this. They traveled into the north so they would've had interactions with other people. How did word not spread about this news of Jon. This would've been a crucial argument for Jon sitting on the iron throne, not only is he the rightful heir, but he's the man that came back from the dead, the man that overcame death incarnate (the night king). Just the fact that Jon died and came back to life and everyone was just meh about it screams inconsistency in the later seasons of the show. Actions and major events have little to no consequences, when the long night was overcome (in just one night lol) every single character forgot about it, I can't even remember it being mentioned after it was all over, just straight on to the next battle like they had some sort of checklist.
Got: *implies you lose a bit of your soul when you come back to life and that Jon would become much darker and ruthless after being betrayed by his own brothers* Also Got: Lol nah anyways here's Jon letting everyone and anyone walk over him while saying "I don't want it"
I mean, there's was this other guy who got resurrected a couple of times in the books, and noone really made a big deal out of it beyond "oh yeah, these eternal flame priests have some pretty need abilities"
You present an amazing alternative to the Night King's ending. How AMAZING would it have been if the significance of the Three Eyed Raven was really revealed, having an immense weight to it, and then the Night King kills him, ridding the world of the Three Eyed Raven forever? Even if he was immediately killed after that, it would have resonated (with me, at least) far more, as he achieved one of his main goals and stole a miracle to humanity... and then they all had to deal with that afterwards.DAMM! Bran felt useless and the Three Eyed Raven felt not all-powerful, just simply all-creepy.
What a great video instead of regurgitating the same thing everyone has been saying for clicks and views you say an explore something that I haven’t seen, bravo sir
the ending you explained to be better with jon dying in the battle against the night king, with sansa not helping dany and dany losing it gave me chills, i so wish it ended like that, so much better 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Jaime and Varys and Dany some of my favorite characters and I literally forgot they died and how badly done it was versus I remember so well more minor characters deaths because they actually mean something. You raise really good point
So the deaths and reason and impacts of them got weaker after season 5 ... You know there is a reason why it takes George so long to write the damn books!
Two of my biggest disappointments (other than season 8): 1. No consequences for cersei destroying the sept 2. Jon Snow didn't stay dead. He became the most annoying character to me because he could get into any situation and escape unscathed
@@animecatalog9194 Yeah, but this just creates plot armour, which goes against the whole identity of GoT. If he has to live, don't kill him in the first place.
@@animecatalog9194 But in the series, John snow clearly avoids death in many occasions when it made little sense. If he would be brought back from the dead, smd then returned to normal that would be fine. But sadly he just received his brand new set of plot armor.
I hated season 7 and hadn't got high expectations about the final season, but still... it was much disappointed. The worst episode for me was the Battle of Winterfell. There were so many scenes when a character was in a life threatening situation, (like a few second from a definate death stab/bite), and that moment the camera cut to another character who was soon in the same situation, and so on, so on... frustrating. All of the extras die like flies but none of the main characters is even seriously wounded. Not even Sam. And then the most underwhelming death in the series, the death of the big baddie of GoT, the King of the mysterious Others, a necromancer who lived thousands of years for this moment, who was presented to us from the beggining of the series as the prime evil force in that universe... and this guy got stabbed by a teen girl who somehow passed unnoticed by his highly skilled soldiers and jumped on him out of thin air screaming like crazy. Oh, and she didn't froze the moment he touched her because... she's Arya Stark. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, she could do to die in the last 4 seasons. Basically an immortal. And that's the end of the battle, the and of the war, the end of winter... an the end of GoT for me.
It was stupid Ayra killing the NK the way she did, but it would have been just as stupid Jon doing it. That's unfortunately the way the show was going. Jon had escaped death in the most stupid ways in previous episodes and seasons and even in that particular episode, that's why they didn't give it to him, it would have been too much. It was better it being Ayra than Jon. Besides, it was silly anyway how killing the NK killed all the other WW and wights, it was just dumb after 8 seasons of build up. In the books I'm sure it'll be handled very differently if GRR ever finishes them.
@@thefirebreathingleftist8648 You're welcome. Now try watching his streams on the MooLer channel, specifically EFaP 40 and 41. Twelve hours should be enough to test your endurance.
This is probably the best analysis of Game of Thrones I've ever seen. So many of these videos fall into the trap of nitpicking and blaming characters for actions rather than writers. But this video is simply fantastic
You proved you know what you're talking about by teasing the clip of Catelyn's death the entire video and finally playing it at the perfect moment. Bravo.
You, good sir, just multiplied the workload i have writing my groups own D&D campaign. I'm not complaining, as it's now gona be a much better plottprogression, i just wanted you to know. Thank you and good day sir.
Nes from my own experience, “writing” a D&D campaign will doom it to failure, especially if you’re trying to do so in a way at all similar to something like GoT S1-4; playing a ttrpg is not at all the same as writing a book. Do as you wish, obviously, and you know your table better than I do, but keeping the players near the crossroad of every major event and decision is far more often a formula for success than any plot point set in stone.
@@deProfundisAdAstra Thanks for the concern. ^^ I think i'm fine tho, as i give them initial qwests wich sett up the timer for campaign X. I basicaly use the Skyrimm qwest format where the players have to deal with the fallout of those initial qwests at some point. I just use this video as reference for dramatic conseqwences. I don't write the whole campaign in stone, i just plan the rough shape and polish pices wich gett in range. And this vid showed me how to finetune potential plotttwists. Sorry iff my writing's off. My native language is Ger and im on the device.
To further your point, Razbuten: I was legit sad in the first part of this video concerning major death, the later deaths actually spurred some anger in me, rather than heartbreak
Shireen’s death did have fallout though. It lead to Selyse killing herself, and Stannis’s men leaving in mass with the horses directly leading to his loss against Ramsey’s forces and his death, bringing an end to the War of the Five Kings.
One thing im glad you pointed out that i feel goes overlooked is Rickon. Yeah he may not have been important in the early seasons but how he was killed just shows the disrespect the writers had for characters they felt werent the essential main characters. They couldnt even give Rickon one line of dialogue all throughout the season. They couldnt of had Ramsey have a conversation with him, trying to threaten him, and have Rickon be like “Fuck you ima stark, ill never bend to you,” they couldnt of had him said something like that at the least? But instead his death was all for the purpose of giving Jon the motive to attack early (which was horrible for him as a strategy) and still he suffered no consequences from it, still won the battle and got named king in the north.
And to add to that, they disrespected him even more by not even having his siblings seem to care about him. Throughout all of seasons 7 and 8 with the starks, Rickon might have gotten like one line and them talking about him (if that). I understand that most fans didnt care about him but that doesnt matter when you look at the characters themselves. Even if Rickon had even less screen time, if your little brother dies, you are going to be sad and mourn him for more than two seconds or just simply acknowledge him through a throwaway line and nothing else. Im not even sure Arya knew about Rickons death and if she did, the writers did a horrible job of the letting the viewers see it. It just shows that they didnt see Rickon as an actual character or human being and his death was meaningless other than the fact to help them tie up loose ends.
This is a great video on the thematic failures of G.O.T. I feel like my own views on writing have been massively changed by the catastrophe that was this show
the endind of Game of Thrones made me actually hate the Starks and root for Daenerys and the Targaryens. Also the Night King winning is now probably what everyone'd be fine with considering how the show actually ended lol
Thank the seven I'm not alone in hating the Starks after that atrocity of a season. I've always hated Sansa, but good lord, did her happy ending not feel earned in any way. And the way she had to belittle Edmure to show the audience that she's a "Strong Female Character (c)" was disgusting, just like every asanine word out of Arya and Bran's mouths. I'm okay with the Night King losing; I just wish he had killed at least *one* of them.
@@Silburific I always hated Sansa too lol, can't believe she turned out to be a Cersei/Littlefinger lovechild though. I wish the Night King didn't turn out to be such a joke, after seasons and seasons of build up the conclusion to his arc felt dissappointing af. I wish the people in King's Landing and the south would have felt the danger that comes from the NK and the white walkers, literally nobody was aware of the threat besides the main characters.
@@TheAkwarium I don't know if you know Preston Jacobs, but he's outlining how he would have written the final season, and he mentions how in his version, Cersei sends her army to The Neck to try and trap Dany and Jon's forces between them and the army of the dead. Now that they're on Dragonstone, the NK's army is en route to meet Cersei's (because they WON the battle at Winterfell, like an army of hundreds of thousands of corpses *should* against a handful of mortals). Imagine THAT conflict, these arrogant southron knights realizing that all the scary bedtime stories were true, running for their lives as their comrades are cut down only to stand back up and start attacking their former brothers in arms. Cersie getting a raven that her forces have been decimated, and that those who weren't killed have deserted... and now, the forces that wiped out her army, wiped out Winterfell... are coming for her. Just thinking about that makes me hype, whereas I've literally forgotten huge chunks of the actual season 8.
@@Silburific dude that would have made a lot more sense and would have been such a hype. Cersei should never have been the final boss, I have no idea what these idiot showrunners were thinking. The biggest mistake they made was not bringing the Army of the Dead into the South, also Arya ex Machina randomly killing the NK lol
So many GoT videos that are being made from a place of hate. This video reminded my why I loved game of thrones. Even the ridiculous mistakes are given time to be explained, rather than torn apart or being made into a meme. This felt, cathartic. I know I’m going to have to get over how awfully this show ended eventually. But it really was everything to me.
Honestly, A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones changed my life. It is definitely hard to have the franchise be in the place it is in right now. I’m glad you found something in this.
I had a dream before season 8 began where the white walkers swept through Winterfell and killed Sansa, Arya, and Bran, all three, within the span of a few minutes, they killed them off unceremoniously, cut through them like an unstoppable force, then the walkers headed south. Thats probably how it would have gone if GRRM was still running the show.
He haven't even finished the story yet. Sure, the writers are dumb dumbs, but don't blame it wholly on them. Blame also the writer of the books behind the show. Without new materials, they don't know how to write the new seasons except set up an endgame and cherry pick from other fantasy tropes.
You summed up how I felt about Dany in legit 3 sentences, I'm so happy someone else gets it. I'm not just a crazy Dany fan. It was kinda dumb. It just wasn't worth it.
How the show should’ve ended “All Hail The Night King The First of His Name, Conqueror of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Master Of Dragons, Bringer of Winter, Lord of the Vast White North and Necromancer of Westeros” - dead eyed Wights applause
I remember that I got to have the crazy idea that Aerys shouted "burn them all", because he had a vision of the king of the night coming to king's landing, vision that left him insane (like hodor), so he filled the city with wild fire to stop it, haha
The only good way that the show would have ended would have been the Night King living. It'll teach us that while we're too busy worrying about politics the real threats are going almost completely unnoticed, not worry about politics and ( global warming for example ) would just go away.
The NK would absolutely never win in the siege for KL. KL had oil pots (we know from when Dany showed up and Bronn told them to get more), they have ballistae which can be tipped with dragon glass, they have the Golden Company (which are supposed to be good fighters unlike the show portrayed), and the absolutely most important thing is Eurons fleet. With the fleet simply have to steer the battle semi-close to the ocean where Euron can throw constant arrow volley's and use those fancy fireball trebuchets. Assuming that Jon's guess of 100k wights is true, and they only lost 20k at the battle of Winterfell (they got to reanimate a ton which is why they lost so few) then it makes sense that after conquering all of the cities down on the way, they would have probably 1.5-2m wights. And with all of the prep and soldiers that they'd have, as well as fighting in a better climate than they did up north, I think they would pull through with a win, though suffering many, many casualties.
What made me really pissed about NK being so irrelevant was the hype material they published for the last season. Basically that material showed different main characters sitting on the Iron Throne and one of them was Night King. It made me so excited of the different possibilities of who's going to end up on the Iron Throne. In the end none of that hype material mattered since they never even gave NK the possibility to reach King's Landing in the first place.
In the novels, it was clear that Dany was tilting hard as things progressed. The show gave her character an entirely different tone and then whipped right back to the mental break. It was disorienting for me.
There were moments in the early seasons where Dany's "heroics" are played up in a positive light, but you can still see that she is becoming more ruthless without developing into a mature ruler. She's still impulsive and childlike in how she deals with many people. The show's biggest fault in dealing with Dany's character development is that it never actively shows that she's a bad guy, or has negative characteristics. She gets nothing but praise for almost everything she does, and people worship her incessantly. All it needed was some breadcrumbs, like the books, to make it more believable. They could've used Tyrion, who they decided to retain as a moral compass character instead of the jaded, deadly asshole he is in the books, to look at Dany objectively and say that she was becoming more cruel, considering they made every major character around her love her so much. He could've at least been the one PoV to see that she was getting worse.
Long summary short: Setups with no payoff. Expected payoff without setups. What early got did well was establishing the cycle of Setup and Payoff through death. Setup leads to payoff (death) and those death then leads to more setups.
With regard to the Night King, I think there were 2 ways for his end to be satisfying. The first way would require him be the final bad guy in the entire show. Killing him off in the 4th episode does not match the caliber of the threat he poses, the show needed to resolve all the petty conflicts with humans first and then face him as the final enemy. This would have also fit what the Night King represents: an existential threat. It should have been that any characters who are selfish enough to care more about the own power than the White Walkers would be killed while only those who unite to fight the larger threat should live. It is infuriating that Cersei does not care about the Night King but she suffers no consequence. She gets off scot-free because Jon, Dany, and the rest save her only for her (and later Dany) to be the final bad guys. No sir, if Cersei did not take the Night King seriously she should have been punished for her hubris and died to him. I think it would have been enormously satisfying and purposeful for the Night King to make it all the way down to Kings Landing and kill Cersei and everyone else who didn't take him seriously. I don't think the Night King wants to sit on the Iron Throne (or maybe he does, he does seem intelligent) but the image of him doing would feel so symbolic. The living didn't do anything so now death rules. And then if you don't want that to be the ending (because that's too dark, even for Game of Thrones) then you can have all the remaining people finally unite to defeat him. Now is the time for the characters to realize that all their petty disagreements are useless and in the aftermath of his defeat, I think all the characters can finally realize that fighting is wrong to establish a more peaceful future. I know there's problem with how the Night King making it so far south as that would mean like half of Westeros would either be refugees or dead (thus adding to the Night King's army) but I still think it's more satisfying and doable than him only making it to Winterfell with no impact on the story's greater plot. The second option besides defeating the Night's King is, dare I say it, simply talking to him. In a story about how no one is truly good or truly evil I think showing that even the White Walkers can be reasoned with is especially powerful when up to this point, they are depicted as an ultimate evil. Give us a reason for what the White Walkers marched South in the first place. Maybe they felt threatened by Westeros, maybe the First Men broke a treaty with them and they are seeking justice, maybe the Night King is like any other King and just wants more land under his rule. Show us that the White Walkers are ironically human and defeating them requires treating them like humans. And while other armies were defeated with wars, that is not feasible when it comes to the Night King since he is too powerful. Make it so the Night King is not killed by leaves because they negotiate a treaty with him or something. It would be so powerful to not end a war with violence but with word. It would also prove the show's core themes of the pointlessness of violence and force the characters who survived to build a better future. And of course it also futures the theme of unity and existentialism because the people of Westeros only win when they put aside their differences and work together to talk to and come to terms with the White Walkers. (And in case the idea of negotiating with the White Walkers seems too out there, there is precedent for it in the books. Craster clearly has some kind of deal with the White Walkers which is why they don't kill him. And ancient legends in Westeros seems to imply that the First Men had some sort of deal with them too. Perhaps this forgotten deal is why the White Walkers march south, they are seeking retribution for a broken treaty.)
Razbuten is one of the best in the genre and is a huge inspiration to me for my own video essays. The sound editing, the analysis and script writing, the editing and effects. Overall just a fantastic channel
Love how you did this vid man. Resonated with me totally. I hope they teach this in film schools aswell, so nobody has to make the same errors as those befallen to our beloved show. You've got yourself a new sub :)
I think the main reason Tommen's death had the emotion point it did was because that, in hindsight, Tommen's suicide was the first, last and only decision HE made the entire time he was king, rather than a decision someone else made for him.
and it actually was shocking, I remember the first time I saw it it was like. "wait.....WHAT?!!!!".
@@stevennorris7181 Yeah it was just so quiet and simple. No body, no splat noise so scream of someone finding his body. Just a cold, chilling silent suicide marking the end of the light and innocent Tommen, who would probably have been at least a decent king.
@@Roberta_Trevino decent? Yeah, no. Even with Cersei's death.
His upbringing under his mother would have already destroyed his potential future. History has shown that the heirs of many female rulers (many of whom are very dominating in politics and their heir's life) ends up to be considered bad kings by their subjects. Why? All because they're very dominating in their heir's life and sometime even saw them as a threat that they're not even allowed to participate in the kingdom's affair.
In Tommen, he's been raised to be Cersei's tool that he lost his identity. He won't make a good, independent king because of how's he was raised.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 I was agreeing with the video. We were all hoping Cercei would leave Tommen be. If she left he would've most probably been a good king. He was kind and I guess wisdom comes with age.
@LagiNaLangAko23 That's actually a character point made explicit in the books - Tommen and Myrcella are noted by other characters to be kinder than Joffrey purely because Cersei focused all her attention on her eldest.
"and Rickon is... Not important."
Why did that sting
Magi V Literally the funniest thing I’ve heard all day
Came here for this
even his own family forgot he existed lol
hell i forgot he existed
It's sad and true. Poor little dude got thrown away like nothing by even his own family. Kid deserved at least something of an arc or a character.
i looked directly to the comments to see if i was the only one :D
I feel like Lady's death had more impact than Dany's. That says a lot
And Dany's death should have had massive fallout, especially since she named all her Dothraki warriors, her bloodriders, so they should have been trying to kill Jon at all costs, including Greyworm and the Unsullied army. It should have been a whole new wave of chaos; you can’t kill a queen and expect no consequences.
But there were no consequences for killing Dany, her death is swept under the rug in like five minutes.
@@fingolfinofnoldor3592 not to mention... "we're going to punish her murderer by sending him to where he was happiest and most free and wanted to be in the first place" "okay..we're good. we're going to just get on ships and leave without another word"
@@margisama More specifically, go to an island that holds the equivalent of the Black Death making sure we die the moment we step foot there
Emilia Clark: Am I a joke to you
Writers: *she sOrTa fOrgOt aBOut tHe irOn fLeEt*
@@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595 no they were going to the summer isles
"The show ran out of time, they just didn't have enough track."
Love the video, but I just wanted to point out; they absolutely did not run out of anything. HBO basically wrote D&D a blank check for as much Game of Thrones as they were willing to make--as many episodes or seasons as they wanted, with whatever budget that required--and this is what they gave us. If they ran out of anything, it was fucks.
@Jumbo Jango They should've, but they're the literal embodiment of Hollywood greed and ego.
Cab you even IMAGINE being so selfish and self centered that you don't even care about _money_ anymore!?
Like how is it even possible???
They didn't care about the story, they certainly didn't care about the fans, they didn't even care about the millions they would make, but they were so egoistic that instead of handing over the show to anyone else, they'd rather destroy it themselves... And for fucking what? STAR WARS!?
I've yet to feel this much disgust towards any director for their directing.
@Mae McCardle Yeah so basically they rushed the last two seasons for nothing, fuckin retards.
@Mae McCardle Talk about consequences lol. At least there was some in rl, if there wasn't any in the show
@@Lalvon_Zelpharr well I mean it wasn't for nothing they will forever be known as the idiots that screwed up the final seasons that carries weight to it if I had a show I certainly wouldn't hire someone who screwed up the final season so they could start another project
@@Lalvon_Zelpharr they've basically killed they're careers lost both got and starwars and if I'm not mistaken they tried to direct the upcoming lord of the rings series and got rejected
Ned Stark only had less than 1 season to build his character and when he died, fans can still feel his death.
Dany development took 8 seasons to build and her death is shit.
She should have totally told Jon she was pregnant as his knife was cutting into her. Turning one of the least powerful deaths into one of the most tragic.
Anjelica Snorcket because season 8 didn't actually mean anything, it was a joke and I couldn't emotionally attach to anything that happened
By the time I got to the last episode, I was just like "Can we just finish this shit?"
@@usul573 pretty sure the directors said the same thing.
it felt so rushed i seriously don’t understand why they couldn’t round both season 7 and 8 to 10 episodes each
Best line: Night King was a sidequest.
He felt more like that boss you defeat at the end of an RPG's tutorial to me.
@@6ixlxrd Like the first boss you see and you think 'Man, that would be hard and scary' but it ends up being easy af xD
Dezslock I hate those bosses in games cause I usually prepare and up rage etc for a while, then realize “we’ll crap I could’ve just fought his thing before...”
ayy haha I know this was kind of an insult but honestly you’re kinda right 🤣
In some alternate reality GOT's last season was so epic people can't stop talking about how good it was. I need interdimensional cable so bad!
Cersei having no consequences for blowing up the Sept is one of the biggest writing failures in the entire show. What she did was the equivalent of blowing up the Vatican with the Pope inside, and the show continues without any of the peasants or nobility having a reaction? Noone cared that Queen Margerey, who had been shown as beloved by the people, died there as well? The show just moves along and hopes the audience simply forgets the implications of what happened, so they can conveniently make Cersei queen.
Can't agree more with this. She blew up the Pope, the Vatican, 1000s of people, the commander of her own armed forces, the leader of her most important ally and the most beloved woman in the city.
Next season the people of Kings Landing choose to trust and believe Cersi over Danni
@Feli Aslan But that's the problem, it's not what they did, even such simple writing was something D&D avoided, making their creation of GoT worse then their adaptation
@Feli Aslan Yeah, they should've tried to either stick closer to the themes of the book or ask more questions to George, unless George wanted to allow them to try something different from the books so he can still make money of the sales of the book
The biggest difference between the early seasons and the last ones: the first ones also showed the civilians the houses rule over. Simple world-building. In the last season, the protagonists seemed to exist in a vacuum, like they were the only living people in Westeros. They only interacted with each other. It's no wonder the world suddenly felt artificial and empty.
Her son died
The worst part about the ending is that it ruins rewatching cuz u know how many story beat are dropped and ruined
That's what really kills me. I used to rewatch it all the time. Now I don't want to, even a little bit. The last season is just so off.
Exactly! I rewatched each season countless amount of times, but now there's just no point, unless I pretend the show ended on season 6 with Jon at least becoming king of something... the white walkers staying as a permanent threat (since according to George RR Martin the represent global warming, and that doesn't go away), and Dany sailing to Westeros.... but I cannot erase the last 2 seasons from my memory, so I'm donde with this story, until I hear that the ending in the books defiers greatly from the show. Bran becoming king is like Having Poly in Rocky getting the world champion title after seeing Rocky rise, fall, train, and struggle... it makes no sense. And the counsel formed by Tyrio, Bronn, Lady Brienne, Sam and Sir Davos, probed not melting the Iron throne meant nothing since all they are discussing are rebuilding hore houses.... That scene only needed those recorder laughs and it would belong to "Friends"... In my opinion the destroyed the show entirely! @the_only_juan_79
Hopefully books will justify *this* ending and re-reading them will be pleasing
@@kickowegranie3200 What if not finishing the books was a 200 iq move by R.R.Martin. because he knew d&d would fail so now everyone want to buy the books to get the better ending
@@SveenxHD Yeah, this and not making the same mistakes D&D made
The most heartbreaking death in Game of Thrones was Season 8.
If that's what you think, then I don't know how you didn't see it coming since the shit show that was season 6.
@@THEPELADOMASTER nah, the last season wasn't as bad. It was the worst.
@@ChristopherWanha But it got progressively worse each season since season 5, culminating in the abysmal failure that is season 8
Cheap Tactics Season 6 was amazing, in my opinion the second best season. 7 is where I think it fell off the rails
@@KookShanty Season 6 was alright at best imo, had a RIDICULOUSLY stupid battle (aka. battle of the bastards) and bringing Jon to life was also a big mistake. Yes Jon was still alright in Season 6 (had his scenes and his last good Season), but imagine how good the Show could've evolved without him. In hindsight, the story would've been much more interesting without him. But the season wasn't only bad, it had it's good things for sure. It's just more the beginning of the downfall of GoT, at least it felt like that for me.
In the earlier seasons, I remember Sam being in danger and me rooting for him and hoping he gets out alive. Then in S8, I was a bit pissed he didn't die, not because I no longer liked him but because I hated the fact that so many main characters were surviving a horde of undead on top of them. They could have given a reason for his death, like him realizing half-way through the battle about the undead in the crypt, going down there to save Gilly and sacrificing himself.
Same! I used to be in the edge of my Seat during the battle of Castle Black shopping for Sam to not get hot by an barrow but now I cringe when I see him screaming with a pile of wights.
Sifix same with Tormund like he was a good character but fucking hell the fact he didn’t die is just stupid
Imagine Sam dies while Jon watches-- knowing his hesitation is what truly caused Sam's death. He runs toward the NK and lunges, not thinking of the consequences. He kills the NK, but not before he too was stabbed. The NK is destroyed, while Jon is on the ground bleeding out.
This death causes Dany and Sansa to bicker, ultimately leading to a falling out where Dany does not have the northmen's help for the battle of kingslanding. Arya secretly makes her way down to kingslanding to kill cersi. Jaimie follows as well, for the same purpose.
In kingslanding, Dany sees Rhaegal (who was not killed at this point in my version) die from a window-- with Cersi opporating the weapon. This was the final straw-- left with no other alternative, Dany burns kingslanding.
Cersi trying to escape with The Mountain by her side, sees Jaimie and is relieved. Arya is standing in the shadows. They hug, and Jaimie stabs Cersi, but it was too shallow. The mountain beheads Jaimie. Arya, realizing Cersi could still live, attacks and gets the final blow on Cersi. The mountain, realizing he was too slow, charges for Arya but is stopped by the hound. The hound and the mountain die in the same way as the show.
Arya is trying to escape, but the rubble is too much. She gets caught in the path of dragonfire while trying to safe everyone else in kingslanding, her final words being, "I guess it is today" a callback to "what do we say to death? not today."
Dany has taken kingslanding, but not without a cost. Greyworm has died as well, leaving Dany even more distraught and without any of her former friends. Tyrion makes a backhanded deal with Sansa. In the middle of the night, Dany wakes up to both of them staring her down. They each take turns stabbing her, similarly to how Jon was stabbed at the nights watch. They both list the names of their siblings who died at Dany's hand-- or because of her actions. People never find out who killed Dany, and Bran refuses to say anything. Drogon dies a day after, unable to live without his mother and ending the era of dragons.
A power vaccum ensues, and infighting begins. The northmen, having had enough time to recover and having escorted Sansa to kingslanding in secret, take over kingslanding in order to maintain peace.
everyone is scrambling, asking who will be the new ruler. In fighting once again ensues, and the north is left unguarded, so Sansa pulls out of the running. However, she wrote in a letter who she would vote for to be the new ruler.
The people are asked who they want to be lead by, and there is no clear answer. Ultimately, the houses each become their own kingdom, effectively ending the game of thrones.
Not the best, but it is better than season 8. This would play out over 15 episodes btw. For unaddressed characters:
-Bron dies savnig Jaimie when he charged at Drogon
-Misandei dies the same way
-Euron dies in the battle of kingslanding
-Theon dies in the long night
-Juror dies in the long night
-Lyanna Mormont dies in the long night
-Olenna dies the same
-Nymeria dies in the long night, saving Arya
-Illaria Sand dies in the battle of kingslanding
-Yara Greyjoy dies the same
-Brienne is queens guard to Sansa
-Littlefinger dies at the beginning of the season, when Bran returns and tells Sansa everything. He dies by public execution.
I think that is all.
A show known for killing anyone, main characters included, not killing anyone during a fight against zombies?
there was no way Sam could've survived that battle
I had actually forgotten about Varys' death until the clip of him being executed showed up. He was one of my all-time favourite characters, and I completely forgot about his death. Really goes to show how forgettable and unsatisfying his arc's ending was.
@@cybele_m Then there's the fact that a bunch of fanatic Dothraki and extremely loyal Unsullied were surronding Jon Snow's means of escape, that would've certainly led to a second battle where whoever wasn't with Dany fought her fanatically devoted soldiers, rather then the Unsullied sending Jon exactly where he planned to go and commit the equivalent of suicide by sailing to an island infected by the GoT equivalent of the Bubonic Plague
I forgot about everyone's death in season 8 tbh, it was just so bad that it had no impact on me.
@@quetz6335 "I forgot about -everyone's death in- season 8 tbh, ..."
I didn't forget his death. I was too pissed off. He was the ultimate puppet master for most of the show, and makes the stupid mistake of letting all the wrong people know about his true intentions in the last season. Jon is the true heir to the throne and he probably isn't kookoo banana bread crazy pants? "Hey Jon (character that is honorable to the point of stupidity at times)! Want to betray your aunt/lover who you gave up a crown for and swore fealty to? Cause I totes think you should be ruler of the seven kingdoms. But don't tell on me, 'kay?" Insert eye roll here.
Not to mention nonsensical.
Varys: I am the best spymaster in the world.
Also Varys: I'm going to write treasonous letters in my office right next to the queen for no reason LOL
I love how they didn't even bother to have those letters do anything, either. He literally died writing pointless letters.
Jamie’s death annoyed me the most, probably because his arc was one of my favorites. And instead of giving him a satisfying conclusion to his character, they undo multiple seasons of development and send him to King’s Landing for literally no other reason than to die. For one of the most well-developed characters in the series he has one of the most pitiful deaths, in terms of both the reasons behind it and its impact on *anything* else.
Darth Jami I really thought Jamie would kill her and that would’ve been so much better. I’m really disappointed about that
I literally forgot he died
they just wanted to have the umm..."cool incest visual".. when all it was was anti-climactic and a LITERAL meme. He's my favorite character, and all he did was.. DIE. I have almost not accepted it as canon because it made no sense. I have been prepared for him to die in both the show and books for 12 years now, but I felt nothing. That may be the most egregious thing to do to such a complex character. What was the point of the (serendipitous) Euron fight? He got stabbed 3 times and just walked around till he (again serendipitously) reunited with Cersei on the floor map. She goes "you're hurt omg that's so sad" when SHE LITERALLY PUT A PRICE ON HIS HEAD. That's when I started LOLing hard.
@@abhinayashankar4201 The worst thing is when he tells Tyrion he never cared about the innocent.
The Kingslayer, the guy that earned his status and nickname due to his refusal to watch a king slaughter innocent people never cared about the innocent.
That is just bullshit
I was sure he was going to die in winterfell, that would complete his story arc. When that didn't happen I thought he would go to KL to kill Cersei and then die, another great way to end his arc. But nooo, that was too much to ask
Stark Lannister War - 4 Seasons
Lannister Tyrell War - 1 Scene
Undead living War - 1 Night
Like D + D were saying “I know GRRM says we could go at least 13 seasons... but nah, let’s crunch it into the length of a Pixar short!”
David Perrier
Stark-Lannister War - 3 seasons
Targaryen-Lannister War - 1 seasons
Undead War - 1 episode
Sunbro Adresse not really, that’s more when we were properly introduced to them, along with how big of a threat they were. War didn’t properly start until season 8 with the only battle/conflict being episode 3
@Sunbro Adresse i guess what he means is at that point it's closer to a skirmish between the crows and the undead rather than a war with the living
@Sunbro Adresse The FotFM was was 300 men of the watch who had no idea white walkers existed. Again, larger attacks against wildlings had been occurring for decades.
To me, the problem is this: when the series started, Game of Thrones was about... well, nobody really. It was about the conflict itself. The series didn't have a "protagonist" in the common sense of the word. Sure, it has a lot of important characters, and it even lead us to the false impression that Ned was the main man, but that's what his death is ultimately telling the audience: there are NO protagonists. This is history, not story.
It's in the name: Game of Thrones. It's not about the players, it's about the game itself.
That's why GoT was so compelling at the beginning. It really gave the audience the feeling of witnessing something that really happened, in opposing to a moral lesson disguised as tale. Things happened because... well, because things happen. That's the meaning of consequence, some phenomena leads to other phenomena in a series of events, where both will and chance play a role. That's how history works. Although many try to steer the narrative one way or another, shit is always happening that's against or independent of people's wills and hopes, on top of those things people worked to achieve. And even then, multiple purposes interact in intricate and mostly unpredictable ways.
But writing in this non-linear multilevel way demands a highly structured thinking pattern, and it's difficult to say the least. Not everybody can pull this off. So, when the adapters started to create, well... they changed it. Beginning with season 5, the show starts to have clear and well defined protagonists. Everyone else is disposable, but we start to get that "plot armor" feeling most fantasies and action driven series have around their main characters. When you can know someone's not gonna die based solely on which actor is playing the role. It stopped being history, and now we're watching some story. And a not very well written one too, at that. Shit, they even RESSURRECT a protagonist.
The high stakes are gone; long live the main characters.
It was a shock. But affective memory kept the audience levels, so we got that Lost finale, which is already bad as stories go, but, boy, it's even worse when compared to the starting point. It sucked hairy sweaty balls.
It clearly had a protagonist. It was Ned Stark. Only after his death the story revealed itself as this insanely complicated power-play with many protagonists who will die if they make bad decisions.
This is mostly due to how GRRM writes this story. He does not have a large overarching main storyline in mind to which every otherone has to adhear. He writes the different stories and sees what they would naturally evolve to and what they could impact, creating new stories or ending old ones where they would make sense to end, regardsless of the big overarching theme. This is also why it takes him ages to write.
You could achieve a similar result if you have multiple authors writing just their own storyline updating each others how their story is progressing and applying changes to the world. Only being forced to keep consistency in the world and kinda the same overall theme (not one writing a dark novel while the other story is a disney fable). They must also not be afrait to end their storyline and switching to another one of their colleagues has created by discovering new in their story.
The great thing about this is that the result woudl not be one story but rather a world with many stories. You could sell each story individually (at different prices, depending how long they are) so you can only see that part of the world which interests you and skipping stories that you don't care about. Maybe even let people go back in time and read up on a story they skipped early but now is important to another one they are currently interested in. Maybe even spanning multiple medias, kinda like halo. You have a book which reveals the story of one guy, that dies on a battlefield. You have a game that only covers this battle with a different protagonist who kills the first guy in the end, maybe by accident resulting in a revenge plot a movie covers. All while 150km south something completly different is happening in a tv-series which also acknowledes the events of the other books, games, films.
This would quickly become a giant world where you are completely unable to follow everything.
Like only watching Denaris scenes the whole time, then wondering where the fuck that assin popped out of, going back to watch how and why he was send and suddenly discovering a new plot about a little brat with a hot mother who gets screwed by her brother. Imagine discovering the world of westeros that way.
But that would be an lifetime project for multiple people and would also be actual work for the viewers if they wanted to watch everything in a chronological order.
literally in the first... 10minutes of the series.... Ned executes a guy who he acknowledges 5 seconds after killing him could have been crazy... "a mad man sees what he sees"... Then what the fuck did you kill him for? Remember, Ned doesn't know the Walkers are back. He doesn't know for sure this guy has seen one. He then kills him and is questioned by Bran, and he doesn't say 'he was lying.', 'that was just bullshit'., 'A deserter would say anything', he says 'A mad man sees what he sees.'. This underscores that Ned had apparently realized this guy had some severe psychological trauma, but still expected a person who was incapable of meeting the social standard, to meet the social standard. So he killed him. I'm left to assume that Ned had Hodor whipped on occasion as well then. And why not? If a mad man sees what he sees, but is still responsible for the consequences of their actions apparently.
And then he uses the execution of the mentally disturbed to pound his chest to his kid about how honorable he is for being the one to kill the mentally disturbed.. It's insanity that this complete moral flexability for Ned gets painted as moral inflexability.
Forcing crazy people to stand on a wall is moral to Ned, but when those crazies have visions (which in this case was seeing some real shit), them leaving is immoral. Fucking crazy.
Op
@@NineSun001 as a writer what you describes sounds fucking crazy, i don't like to say it would be imposible, but at the very least you would need to found some pretty specific people to pull something like that up and i can see real world drama or creative diferences fucking such story hard, all it takes is one disagreament
@@NineSun001 @carso1500 You ever read stuff from the Star Wars EU? Hell, american comics love this formula. I've always found diving into them super fascinating, though the inherit flaws are pretty obvious as well. Those are major franchises so I'm sure they don't carry the exact feeling you're imagining and spring from traditional stories, but you can't argue the fact they fit that description.
When Jon was resurrected: Yes! My boy lives!
Season 7&8 happened: ... maybe he was better off dead than be a kneeling parrot for his lover/aunt...
Ygritte's death by Ollie: Had me bawling like a child
Daenerys' death by Jon: K. This is why you should have at least two guards with you -_-
Jamie: I sacrificed my honor as a Kingsguard and killed the Mad King because he is a threat to everyone! I will find a way to avoid bloodshed or at least offer to compromise like I did with the Blackfish.
Jamie in Season 8: I don't really care about other people, I just love my sister lol
D&D: Jamie kinda forgot he had character development.
Jon Snow should have never been resurrected. He's a horribly boring character. His death is meant to be one of the best parts of the story.
But because Kit Harington he has to be kept alive.
Which ruins the story.
I don't get why people bash Jamie for this. All he's wanted his entire life is to be by Cersei's side. Yes, he has disagreements with her but at the end of the day, he still loved her. He knew Dany was going to defeat her so he went to try and save her life or die by her side.
After making his way back to King's Landing after all the character development becoming a better person he still threatens Edmure to catapult his baby boy into the side of a fucking castle. What Jamie did at the end of season 8 was 100% what his character development pushed him towards.
No it wasn’t. It was a slap in the face to his development over the years. He said he never cared about innocents, when I remember him saying that he did in Season 3. His love for Cersei is beyond nonsensical by now because of the faces he has shown throughout.
@@Jack-kx5rf Fuck Steve Shives
@@TwinBrosGaming ikr he's a total dick
19:13 “to have less characters to worry about.
Stannis: Fewer
Nice.
That moment was the absolute zenith of Stannis' popularity on the show, and that season would also be its lowest point.
AAAAYYYYYYYYYY
Stannis approves!
Lol
i’m glad you talked about the dragon deaths. they were so upsetting to me and then they were just immediately forgotten and it just felt wrong
It's been 2 years and 2 months, respectively, and I'm still not over the dragon deaths. The episodes they died in only existed to kill them (and later, Missandei) off, which sucked. I grew tired of the whole, "let's tear down Dany's world so that she can remember she's still strong on her own" bs seasons ago. It's just the same ol, rinse and repeat until crazy routine, which adds to the list of how rewatching this series will be less enjoyable.
Ikr? When the first dragon died during that mindbafflingly stupid "kidnap a zombie" quest I thought "Oh shit! This is big! It will be a huge deal to both Dany's war plans and her psyche" but nope, banging your neffew apparently makes more sense...
@@Ellisepha ahhahahaah, nothing like nephew banging to get over your child's death in the world of Dumb and Dumber! Goodness they really crapped on these characters.
George RR MArtin: "Mature Dragons are practically indestructible, the shot that killed one in the past was one in a million"
D&D: "Hold Euron's Beer"
Lamiria *nephew
I never stopped talking about rickon. I am still so bitter about this character that had so much potential to be amazing. A stark raised by a wildling.
Rickon also don't play a major role in books, I haven't read about him in the last 3 books, seems like he is not a important character
PEACE OUT seems like he will be important in the next book, the Manderlys and Glovers among others tasked Davos with finding Rickon so they can rally around him as Lord of Winterfell
@@ER-pp6dz but they don't develop sansa or Arya or Jon, they have them just say random shit, make stupid choices and take away their Dept.
@@ER-pp6dz He's developed more in the books. And he's got a bigger role in the next book
@LagiNaLangAko23 They got unicorns on the island
Thank you for mentioning Jamie running at the Dragon and both him and a ton surviving. That was THE moment that took me out of the show after that I couldn’t unsee how bad the show was getting.
Even worse when he comes back to Winterfell later to fight against the Night King and Dany conveniently forgets that he's the man that tried to kill her and Drogon like how many episodes earlier.
And Jon screamed at one, killed it's mother and NOTHING. The epitome of plot armor
@@elfodelputoinfierno I don't know, to me it made sense that Drogon didn't kill Jon. Dragons are smart, he knew that Dany had totally lost it and had become a danger to everyone.
FINALLY SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY DONT LET DANY CARE ABOUT HER DRAGONS I HATED THAT SO MUCH
Maybe she thought they were powerful enough to take care of themselves?
“And Rickon is not important”
Literally I kept forgetting him throughout the show so whenever he turned up I was just so confused.
I seriously only knew it was Rickon because I remembered Shaggydog's pelt.
It was like who? Oh right. Almost forgot. If we cared about him more, if he had a true story line, then his death would have been emotional. Instead of just...oh right we don't really have a story for him so he'll die.
Tbh, the same thing happens in the books.
@@THEPELADOMASTER I kinda like this. Not everyone gets to play a huge world altering part. Maybe he was that, just a kid loved by his family. Maybe we should have seen him a little more often, just being loved and cared for, that would've helped.
@@NineSun001 but he does have a story or a start of a story anyway in the books, in the books he’s on an island full of cannibals and unicorns and Lord manderly (one of the northern lords) sent Davos to go get rickon so the north can rally round him and make him lord of winterfell in exchange they will be loyal to Stannis in the next book we’ll probably get a POV from Rickon or Orsha
Also, episodes 3 and 4 gave me serious whiplash. I thought Sam and Brienne were dead. Sam was getting swarmed by zombies... I felt a bit robbed.
zombies?
@@wakkjobbwizard Reanimated undead are zombies, don't start with semantics
That was some serious plot armor + Deus ex machinas. Guess they had to live so that they could have the Disney ending where they all lived happily ever after minus Daenerys and Jon Snow.
You were starkly Robbed of your expectations.
Honestly, as much as I love Sam and want the sweet boy to be happy, imagine if he had died because Jon ran by him in order to fight the night king. COULDA BEEN A REALLY GOOD DEATH.
It still bothers me that D&D went silent and never adress the fans disapoinment
We're talking about the dudes who've said “Themes are for eighth-grade book reports".
Surprise, surprise.
I felt so cynically happy to see those two bozos didn't have an 'inside the episode' bit after the last episode. They know they can't fucking justify that dung heap.
Romi Smirnoff cowards.
@@TheRAH1
More like rich and influential guys who don't give a Fuck about rabble not enjoying some shit, why would they waste their time?
The just didn't give a shit about a satisfying conclusion. They were hired to do a few Star Wars movies and just gave up on GOT.
The Night King winning, especially after the ending we got, would have been heavenly.
"You played your game of thrones until there was no one left to protect it, let alone claim it. Despite the warnings and the signs, your petty squabbles led to your demise. It was just, it was true, it was inevitable. The song is sung."
So, you would have preferred an ending where truly and absolutely nothing that happened during the show mattered?
@@anna-flora999 To quote J.R.R. Tolkien, "victory is victory, however small, nor is its worth only from what follows after." Some people tried to protect others, and the fact that they ultimately failed doesn't take away from that. As for everything else: yes. They spent so much time and resources and caused so much tragedy squabbling over a worthless throne while ignoring the threat from the North, meaning they didn't do anything that was worth doing, and a show that reflects that would be incredible (especially if they wanted to subvert expectations).
@@samueldimmock694 to quote sir Terry Pratchett: "Let there be goblin hordes, let there be terrible environmental threats, let there be giant mutated slugs if you really must, but let there also be hope. It may be a grim, thin hope, an Arthurian sword at sunset, but let us know that we do not live in vain.”
@@anna-flora999 Well, some of the people really did live in vain, but I suppose giving them some last-minute redemption isn't a problem. And for those who fought to protect others: sure, why not? Let them die as they have lived.
Perhaps a desperate last battle to hold off the forces of the Night as long as possible and buy time for civilians to evacuate, fleeing across the ocean to find refuge perhaps in that quasi-kingdom that Dany set up (if that's accurate; I haven't actually watched the show or read the books), perhaps just wherever they can find it?
But yes. I do like a bit of hope in my stories. Sometimes, the hope of trying where success is impossible, if well-executed, will work, but it's usually nice to have something a bit more than that. Otherwise the story isn't really worth telling.
I think that would've been the most GoT thing ever. I honestly wish that happened. We watch the downfall of humanity because of their own selfish mistakes. Death is inevitable.
I’m always down for another 30 minute youtube thesis slamming Thrones
Maybe we will get game of thrones brotherhood when the books are finished
At first I thought you meant the Brotherhood without banners until I remembered lol
What is brotherhood?
butterpastor The original anime adaptation of Fullmetal Alchemist didn’t have the completed manga source material to work with, so Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was made years later to actually follow it. This is a turn of phrase based on that.
that would be great, the only problem is what about the cast of the show ? at this point it wouldn't be got without most of them
Rodrigo Monteiro Animated Series. Casterly Rock, Storm’s End, the real Eyrie, Lady Stoneheart, Hightower, Real Euron, Young Griff, all Starks Warging... so much things animation could bring to live
Hearing the Stark music when you talked about Ned gave me serious chills reminding me how good the show was. The last two seasons don't exist in my eyes.
Season 7 is better than season 6 lol
Hi How Are Ya are you kidding me? Season 7 is arguably just as if not worse than Season 8, Season 6 has worse writing than the first 4 seasons but it’s still the best season since season 4.
Last 4 seasons for me.
@@bbarrettgriffith lol no
Hi How Are Ya Season 7 is hot garbage
I've spent a lot of time thinking about a parallel universe where this show ended well. Imagine how incredible of an accomplishment it would have been to take this marathon-length series telling one of the most highly-produced and daring stories ever and wrap it up neatly. It seems like fantasy shows don't get the privilege of having that kind of finale - it's ten years on and the internet's discourse surrounding Lost is still primarily "show good, but ending bad?". Maybe we'll get that satisfaction one day.
Try Avatar Last Airbender the TV series
Game of thrones: Brotherhood?
@@javaterry1661 The Last Airbender is good, but according to a lot of people Korra is bad and stains the original series.
@no one The fantasy show part of that was important, there are lot of dramas with great endings.
I would recommend Preston Jacobs "How to Fix" series about Game of Thrones, he takes the same plot points and start to end of the season he did it, but good god, not half assing the story make a hell of difference.
I still cant believe people thought Jon would die the same season he was revived. The battle of the bastards just had me waiting to see how he would get out of harm's way. All my friends thought I was insane for not feeling the danger for jon. But HE JUST CAME BACK TO LIFE.
Same for me, what's the poit pf reviving a character just to die few episodes later, what it bothers me is the fact that Jon resurrection never brought back again .
Honestly, if Dany's turn to the Mad Queen were better done, her giving her whole fire and blood speech would have been a great end to the show. Everybody thought she would be the one to save Westeros, so ending on her becoming queen, ushering in a new era of evil royalty would be kind of poetic.
Dude, you fixed the plot with a bunch of simple changes. BRILLIANT.
Did he bring Stannis back?
@FORREST GUMP Yes, but I was in a rush so I didn't have time to type the whole thing
This video should've been called
*"Game of Thrones: To Kill Or Not To Kill"*
Still a great video though
FUCK. GOD DAMN THAT IS GOOD
@@razbuten OMG HE RESPONDS! Thnx I'm glad you liked it😂😂
@@razbuten IIRC you can rename it. Seems like algorithms didn't picked up the video which is strange.
@@razbuten Renly's a total narcissist. He probably would've been a half decent ruler at best but he shoulda stuck with Stannis instead playing into his own ego for his boyfriend.
Funny how Ned, Robert and Tywin were soo important even after death while some other characters disappeared from the plot's importance after death.
lmao some even didnt die before their disappearence. Seriously fuck DD
The books won't ever be finished and you won't hear from Rickon again, anyway. George can't even figure out what to do with Jon , Dany and Tyrion, ayra, Cersei,Jaime, tommen , Littlefinger (my fave character) , margaery and the Tyrells (other faves of mine), let alone Varys and samwell, Davos etc... Rickon is so far down that list!!! He doesn't give a fuck ! He can't even manage his main characters and worse, he's added way more!!! And now the story has changed entirely! Now it's all about Dorne etc and it proves all we invested in was just filler and red herrings, he is a soap writer, not a true narrative /tome writer. He writes short stories and this is like a bunch of those .. he never expected people like you to actually expect an ending. He never intended for one. You're not an artist or a writer, you don't understand the mind of an escapist , hyper sensitive artist...he's just a regular dude. He's not a genius at all. You just have no creativity which is why you don't understand how it is to have a great talent but not the ability to follow it through... It's something some creative talents struggle with. I'm one of them and Grrm mist feel this pressure x10000, Ican see that people put Grrm on a pedestal ,which feels good but also sucks cause then you have to live up to the expectations.
To put it simply.. George's hype has exceeded his abilities.
That's it.
It's self explanatory. There's nothing deeper going on.with George. He just can't finish. And he should have outlined his story instead of adding filler and bullshit new characters... But it's too late now and if he admits he screwed up, he loses.. he can't win because he also won't ever finish. He's actually said he won't ever fiNish. He said it was never meant to end and used Tolkien (pathetic, he's obsessed with his idol... ) As an example , to suit himself. He's just a mediocre writer who lucked out with HBO ny meeting Dan anddabe.
George was not very famous before Hbo. Unlike most book authors..
That says alot. .. think.about it. He's no rowling or even 50 shades of grey lol.. he's just another nerd who got lucky. His scripts for 1980s twilight also sucked and are the worst rated in the series. He's overrated as heck.
@@doxasophosmoros kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
all the Starks continuously talked about Ned’s death and to a lesser extent Robb’s but it seemed like they didn’t care about Catelyn at all lmfao
Deep inside we know that “Hotpie” is the prince who was promised
Sujit Thapa Exactly
All hail Hotpie
Doran Martell, the Prince of Dorne, is killed. All the houses of Dorne do...nothing. The assassin's "House Sand?!" meet with great houses like Tyrell. The assassins are killed by the Lannisters and the houses of Dorne...just pick a new Prince.
This is how the show broke for me. The world ceased to be a lived in real one and events only mattered as was convenient for Benioff and Weiss.
Dorne was such a hack job.
"Yeah, uh, these bastards killed all of the ruling family because they thought the ruling family wasn't making enough power moves, despite the fact that every single one of the bastards being related to the ruling family, making them kin slayers. But we will just wave it off as weird Dornish culture, which we rarely explore or give an explanation to in the show, that allows the other Dornish nobles to fall in line."
"In stead it asks viewers to fill in the gaps that the show didn't have time to explore"
You mean 'didn't care to explore'. They could have had all the time in the world but they just wanted to get it over with
Honestly, knowing that they literally had all the time and money they could ever need for the show available, just makes the end result all the more infuriating.
It angered me in the same way finding out Bojack Horseman was cancelled by Netflix for no reason did.
GoT ended badly because those two idiots are fucking inconsiderate, greedy and narcissistic ass holes.
I will never forget it.
If they included everything in the books it wouldn't have ended for 20 seasons, plus more once the last two are brought out.
@@Jack-kx5rf Yes because I said they have to include *every single thing in the books*, and not that they should at least fill in the gaps they leave in the writing of the show. Fuck off with this strawmannery, if you're gonna respond to comments try to understand what the comment says please.
Ned's death also helped to establish Joffrey's character. In the beginning of the show, Ned has to execute a man for the crime of abandoning the Night's Watch. Ned explains to Jon that the person who passes down the judgement should be the one to swing the sword: Honor is in accountability and taking responsibility for decisions you make, not just ordering those decisions in a way where you don't have to get your hands dirty. The fact that Joffrey ordered Ned to be executed, bur ordered someone else to actually execute him shows him to be dishonorable, it shows him to be a liar, because he told Sansa and his mother that he would spare Ned's life. It shows that he likes to use his power, but that he doesn't care about accountability. He doesn't want to lead the nation into prosperity, he doesn't care what other people think about a situation, he doesn't follow advice, and he strikes down the moral center of the show, which shows that he doesn't care about morality or what the "right" thing to do is.
Krysten Cabbage I noticed you typed “bur” instead of “but” between “executed” and “ordered.”
" Ned explains to Jon..." Wasn't Bran?
I think this whole "he who order should also be the one who smite" isn't applicable here. We are talking about a child even Theon isn't able to execute a man in one swing. So that brat would not have been able to kill Ned properly.
@@NineSun001 Sure, I mean he probably lacked the physical strength to do it. Whats more important though, is even if he had the physical strength, he lacks honor and would never dirty his own hands. He is the total opposite of everything Ned stood for. Establishing that is what makes him such a great and hate-able character
Damn man you made me realize exactly why deaths in the later seasons felt so hollow. Great job this really is something incredible.
They also didnt introduce most of the new characters the last couple books did so the world got smaller and the story more simplistic with each character death
I DID like Theon's death. It came right at the end of his arc, and was the only one I felt sorry for
I can admit that I didn't hate his or Jorah's, I just felt like those characters kind of did nothing for 2 seasons JUST so they could die in the Battle of Winterfell
But let's say he didnt die, and arya finished night king before he finished off theon...how does that change the story at all given the last 4 episodes?
I still think that should have been Jaime instead. Maybe have Theon protect Rickon (who lived in this version) and the people in the crypt?
Yeah I thought Theon was going to be a far more major character in the later seasons, the idea of him standing up to Ramsay to save Sansa is so compelling, but the show felt so rushed at that point it lacked emotional payoff
Did we even get a reaction from his sister to his death? I don´t remember.
I still remember how sad I was when Ygritte or Ned died. Daenys death should have been even more intense than those two combined yet I felt nothing
The best way to end the NK's story line would have been to have him win in the North. Not necessarily at winterfell (because that feels like an unecessary, all-in battle that would preclude retreat, and which neither side would have wanted), but in some kind of pitched battle. Characters die. the Northern/Targaeryen army is decimated (not destroyed, because they sacrifice their rearguard to cover a retreat). They flee south, losing men along the way, knowing that if they do reach the south, Cersei will just order them executed and then (likely) die to the NK.
That's where Arya comes in. Not fighting Wights like an anime ninja, not teleporting to the NK to kill him, but using the actual assassination skills that she has developed for several seasons to infiltrate the Red Keep, kill Cersei, and take her place to order the Lannister army to fight alongside the Starks/Targaryens. This creates the potential for tension with Jaime, who probably wouldn't condone murdering Cersei for any reason, Jon (who probably isn't down with assassination, period), and raises the potential for Arya to be killed by one of Cersei's enemies seeking revenge.
Then we get the final battle between the living and the dead, at King's Landing, not at Winterfell. Maybe something happens that causes Dany to burn the city (for instance, the NK raises the dead from the city's graves and charnel pits, and they start to overwhelm and turn the civilians, so Dany burns the city rather than have it turned into Wights. Some characters may interpret this as madness. Some characters may not be willing to follow a Queen who can sacrifice thousands of civilians to win a war (even if the sacrifice was necessary). Again, potential for future tension and conflict. The living likely win, but the earlier losses (and deaths, which should include major characters) raise the possibility that they might not.
Oh, and Euron chokes on a fishbone and dies a humiliating and preventable death, as befits his terrible character.
YES that last part would've been the most satisfying death for him. I literally hated him. Not because he was a hatable character like Jeoffry though, but because he was such an insufferable bore to watch.
This is the first "mad queen" arc I've heard that actually makes sense in the context of her character
my story would go like this. jon is face to face with the knight king. and he is clearly losing the battle. just keep this in the back of ur mind, but if u remember that one scene where samwell tarly is in the snow, a white walker passes him and keeps going. not sure why but they seem to kind of pay him no mind. while snow and NK are battling, samwell comes from behind and uses a obsidian dagger to stab him in the heart, similar to jojen reed killing the best fighter in the land, Arthur Dayne, from behind and "giving" the kill to Ned Stark during the tower of joy scene. Samwell always wanted to be a wizard, and just as he was able to heal mormont from his stone sickness, he would heal all those white walkers from their "sickness". Afterall, he did save little Samwell from becoming a white, now he finishes the job and saves them all. the first guy to kill a white walker, the first to kill a then, and first to "kill" the knight king. this next part is a bit out there, but jon snow was good at converting ppl. he was able to take a bunch of misfits and law-breakers to join him and believe in the cause of the night watch of the wall. remember at first they didnt like him, but then he became Commander. Then he was also able to have the wildlings north of the wall join his side to help protect lives from the much bigger threat of the white walkers. after samwell had turned the white walkers back into normal humans, he would, as he did before, have these "bad guys" come join him and fight the powers of king's landing. even as crazy as that sounds, its still better than the show.
I like your ending much better, Spencer. That's good work. Write us a novel, you've got a good sense of story.
Spencer Gillespie yes this is beautiful and perfect. Why does your comment not have more likes?
I thought Rickon was becoming quite wild, as is shown in his wolf. They dropped the ball on this, but it could have been quite compelling. We'll see what happens in the books.
His dog is named "shaggydog" which has its implications.. I dont think much will pan out with rickon
Well what they truly dropped the ball on was not including the Stark siblings warging which only Bran can do in the show, all siblings can warg in the books with Arya being the most gifted besides Bran as she can warg into multiple cats at the same time in Braavos when she is blinded(no problem for her) and even able to warg into Nymeria across the sea in Westeros. George was asked by a fan if it was possible to warg into a dragon, that would have been cool in the show but nope. Rickon was as wild as Shaggydog because of their close bond and youth.
It would have been great if the northerners found Rickon and wanted him to be heir and then realized he was too wild. So then some corrupt turncloaks give him to Ramsey. That would have been spicy
Lmao you think he'll actually finish
@Sebastian Hackembruch Grrm said himself the ending is the same. He has no end point for most Characters . GEORGE HIMSELF says this.. Rickonis another throw away who means nothing. There's like 1000 characters, and Grrm abandoned Rickon long ago.. like he has with many characters. He's a soap opera writer , he doesn't finish arcs. Ever.
Your vid speaks volumes. We see the let down and sloppy, lazy writing. (D&D) wanted to end it and they shifted characters around to fit their means. It was sooo disappointing. Could have been so much more.
Honestly the best I've seen attempting to dissect in depth the fall of GoT
The books won't ever be finished and you won't hear from Rickon again, anyway. George can't even figure out what to do with Jon , Dany and Tyrion, ayra, Cersei,Jaime, tommen , Littlefinger (my fave character) , margaery and the Tyrells (other faves of mine), let alone Varys and samwell, Davos etc... Rickon is so far down that list!!! He doesn't give a fuck ! He can't even manage his main characters and worse, he's added way more!!! And now the story has changed entirely! Now it's all about Dorne etc and it proves all we invested in was just filler and red herrings, he is a soap writer, not a true narrative /tome writer. He writes short stories and this is like a bunch of those .. he never expected people like you to actually expect an ending. He never intended for one. You're not an artist or a writer, you don't understand the mind of an escapist , hyper sensitive artist...he's just a regular dude. He's not a genius at all. You just have no creativity which is why you don't understand how it is to have a great talent but not the ability to follow it through... It's something some creative talents struggle with. I'm one of them and Grrm mist feel this pressure x10000, Ican see that people put Grrm on a pedestal ,which feels good but also sucks cause then you have to live up to the expectations.
To put it simply.. George's hype has exceeded his abilities.
That's it.
It's self explanatory. There's nothing deeper going on.with George. He just can't finish. And he should have outlined his story instead of adding filler and bullshit new characters... But it's too late now and if he admits he screwed up, he loses.. he can't win because he also won't ever finish. He's actually said he won't ever fiNish. He said it was never meant to end and used Tolkien (pathetic, he's obsessed with his idol... ) As an example , to suit himself. He's just a mediocre writer who lucked out with HBO ny meeting Dan anddabe.
George was not very famous before Hbo. Unlike most book authors..
That says alot. .. think.about it. He's no rowling or even 50 shades of grey lol.. he's just another nerd who got lucky. His scripts for 1980s twilight also sucked and are the worst rated in the series. He's overrated as heck.
Wont lie I was expecting a scene when after kingslanding was taken they show ellaria being released from a cell with the bones of her daughter sitting across from her (probably gone slightly insane). But nope. She was forgotten and probably crushed in rubble along with cerci.
The death that had the most effect on everything was Tywin's
he was the only man that was capable of holding everything together. Not a single person was as capable as he was
Yes. All of that, only to get killed in a privy by his son he despises the most.
robert held things togheter aswell tbh
True but he's the only one with money power and intelligence enough to scare most into submission.
Nah Tywin relied too much as brutality and fear and should've treated Tyrion better.
Ironic. He cared so much about public image and legacy, yet left his house, that he committed so many atrocities for, to his insane daughter and underqualified son.
In the books, were it not for Kevan, it would've completely fallen apart with Cersei.
@@concept5631 tywins only failure were his kids
28:03 that is a KILLER edit. Fire, literally.
The show was simply too rushed at the end. They needed a couple more seasons to deal with the Night King, Cersei and the Three-eyed Raven properly.
HBO even offered more seasons to D&D, but they refused.
@@vynonyoutube1418 Yeah cuz they wanted to make a Star Wars show that's not even going to happen now.
So they basically rushed the last two seasons of the show for nothing fucking idiots
In a way I think I'm glad it was over with quickly. These guys seem too incompetent to make the show correctly no matter how many seasons they'd be given. Better a quick clear failure than a long drawn out decline into mediocrity.
@@vynonyoutube1418 D&D wanted to “wrap up” the show in 7 seasons, but HBO compelled them to make an 8th.
@@Void_Dweller7 You've gotta be fucking kidding me. They wanted to rush EVEN MORE?!
I remember when I read the first book, and had to re-read Ned's death because I was sure I read it wrong.
I watched the show first and run to buy the first book bc i refused to believed that "the hero" died
When I first read the book Ned's death made me so upset and mad at GRRM I refused to keep reading and it was a year before I picked up the next book!!
I started reading the books before I watched the show, even though it was about to air the third season, and when Joffrey called for Ned's execution, I _knew_ Robb would show up with an army to save him like Theoden did in Return of the King to save Gandalf from the Witch King. It would have been perfect.
Then Ned gets his head cut off and and Robb dies 2,000 pages later.
I look back at that and think to myself what a sweet summer child I was. George created Beric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart because Gandalf leveling up pissed him off so much. Two of the most tragic and brutal characters in the books.
Yes I remember his death. My hearth just sacked. Imagine someone so could at telling stories that you feel the loss of a fictional character. I still rember it to this day, that is insanly good writing.
*1 minute of Tyrion rearranging chairs*
This video puts into words many feelings I have clearly had about Game of Thrones but could never articulate to others.
The white walkers winning would have been so good
I was hoping there would be a twist. Like they would destroy King's Landing because it's such a sinful messed up place, and then they would go back to the North again.
An implication that they have some sort of morality. It was never explained why they spared Sam in Season 2, for example.
Considering the odd relationship between Martin and FromSoftware it would be amusing if The Others were a bulwark against a force of magic Westeros knew nothing about because of the interference of the Maesters and that they have to cut a swath through the living to reach it because it risks extinction if tapped.
That's how I probably would have ended the show
I'm pretty sure thats how GRRM will end the books. He said that the white walkers are an allegory for climate change, and jon snow and the nights watch are basically the scientist that nobody will listen too, and the threat grows unstoppable while the leadership wastes time with frivolous politics.
What if the Night Walkers won, but not everyone died? I think an incredible ending would have been if the Night Walkers won, and after crushing every army in their path and absorbing it, a small band of survivors flees south and takes a rowboat to sea-maybe Arya and Tyrion are the only main characters who survive since she mentioned wanting to see what was South beyond the map.
The show could end with Arya, Tyrion and a couple others drifting at sea in a tiny boat, starving and dying of dehydration, when they spot land in the distance and the show ends. Or maybe have Sam as a survivor too and have it hinted that he’s the only scribe who bore witness to the events of Westeros.
I like how when you went through all of the 'bad' stuff you didn't shit all over it. You carefully picked out every mistake and tried to find the hidden meaning behind it, you didn't just call it bad and not give a valid reason and at its worst everything in the last season is actually okay and I feel you conveyed that very well. Great video!
Thank you! I still think the later seasons are better than most tv shows, they just lack the detail of the earlier seasons, and that’s what I wanted to examine. I’m glad that that idea got across.
I too am very pissed about Barristan's ridiculous death
Also I'm super glad that I'm not the only one who wanted The Night King to win
The actor was also pissed about Barristan's ridiculous death. He said something along the lines of "I read the books and I was expecting to have more to do in the story"
@@lasagna312 He even tried to convince D&D to remain true to the books. And as you can tell it didn't work.
@@vynonyoutube1418 D&D "don't really see the value in listening to others' opinions".
Dude, you really explain the domino effect of character deaths really well in this video, great job.
As an aspiring writer, this video is massively informative! I often met these standards of character deaths creating cause and effect already, but you gave me insight into how that happens, and thus how to specifically funnel my story that way. I know I'm late, but I just want to say; I appreciate it.
The deaths from S5 onward were all hollow and lacking consequences. Cause and effect matters.
I'm still bitter about Ser Barristan, he died so quickly and randomly, it was disappointing
@@TheAkwarium The actor was upset too, he'd read the books and was completely shocked.
@@Frogface91 you noticed that they just decided to kill off characters they had no use for anymore? or characters that they didn't know what to do with or were too complicated to write? lol
@@TheAkwarium Haha, yup. Good writing went out the bloody window.
@@TheAkwarium Same, him and Stannis
THANK YOU! When friends asked me what I thought of season 8, first thing I said was the night king should’ve won, at _least_ the battle of winter fell. It just feels like the most logical conclusion that viewers would’ve refused to see coming.
the cavalry rushing into their death, the trebutchets on the front line, the DITCHES BEHIND THE FORCES.
I feel like they did all this stupid shit just to make it more one sided for the night king.
What shouldve happened,
they used all of their intellect and wit to properly lay defenses, traps, and procedures.
They try their hardest to man a defense, and then still lose.
To show the hopelessness of fighting head to head against an absurd power.
Then, they resort to assassination attempts from that point on.
@@wicketman2339 Oh man this would have been so good :( Especially the showing hopelessness part. What we got instead was side characters that were expendable dying and basically every main character covered by plot armor and the night king defeated in the most anticlimatic way possible.
Oh well..
@@wicketman2339 Yes! They could have lost the massive battle at Winterfell, resulting in the deaths of Jaime, Pod and Sam (or similarly popular characters).
Then Cersei attacks to take advantage of the loss but gets beaten by the Night King too, finally being killed by a wight version of Jaime.
This leaves a last desperate attack on the White Walkers by Jon and Dany on their dragons, which they barely manage to win. Jon faces down the Night King and kills him, but dies in the process - regardless, he dies with a smile on his face.
You could then have Dany go mad and actually have a reason for it...or you could have her die instead of Jon, and Jon rules fairly. Either ending would have been so much better.
He should have won given how idiotic those battle plans were.
He should have won given how idiotic those battle plans were.
One of my biggest queries about the show was the lack of attention given to Jon's death. This was a guy that died and came back to life. Everyone in the nights watch and the wildling's saw this or knew this. They traveled into the north so they would've had interactions with other people. How did word not spread about this news of Jon. This would've been a crucial argument for Jon sitting on the iron throne, not only is he the rightful heir, but he's the man that came back from the dead, the man that overcame death incarnate (the night king).
Just the fact that Jon died and came back to life and everyone was just meh about it screams inconsistency in the later seasons of the show. Actions and major events have little to no consequences, when the long night was overcome (in just one night lol) every single character forgot about it, I can't even remember it being mentioned after it was all over, just straight on to the next battle like they had some sort of checklist.
Got: *implies you lose a bit of your soul when you come back to life and that Jon would become much darker and ruthless after being betrayed by his own brothers*
Also Got: Lol nah anyways here's Jon letting everyone and anyone walk over him while saying "I don't want it"
I mean, there's was this other guy who got resurrected a couple of times in the books, and noone really made a big deal out of it beyond "oh yeah, these eternal flame priests have some pretty need abilities"
"I dun wunt it"
You present an amazing alternative to the Night King's ending. How AMAZING would it have been if the significance of the Three Eyed Raven was really revealed, having an immense weight to it, and then the Night King kills him, ridding the world of the Three Eyed Raven forever? Even if he was immediately killed after that, it would have resonated (with me, at least) far more, as he achieved one of his main goals and stole a miracle to humanity... and then they all had to deal with that afterwards.DAMM!
Bran felt useless and the Three Eyed Raven felt not all-powerful, just simply all-creepy.
that's a great idea!! much better than anything bran did in the last two seasons
@@semicolon.advocate Thank you!
Season 1-4: Gods the writing was strong then.
What a great video instead of regurgitating the same thing everyone has been saying for clicks and views you say an explore something that I haven’t seen, bravo sir
Everything in the show started with the death of Jon Arryn, rather than the death of Eddard Stark.
Rickard Karstark was a very important death too which had consequences to Rob's war.
Yeah they lost the Karstark Army
the ending you explained to be better with jon dying in the battle against the night king, with sansa not helping dany and dany losing it gave me chills, i so wish it ended like that, so much better 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Jaime and Varys and Dany some of my favorite characters and I literally forgot they died and how badly done it was versus I remember so well more minor characters deaths because they actually mean something. You raise really good point
"Jon is walking the thin line of posing to be a wildling and being one and Rickon is... not important" this killed me lmao
Jesus christ, the GOT soundtrack is so good it makes me sad over how it ended
So the deaths and reason and impacts of them got weaker after season 5 ...
You know there is a reason why it takes George so long to write the damn books!
The real question _is_ will A Dream of Spring stay a dream?
Two of my biggest disappointments (other than season 8):
1. No consequences for cersei destroying the sept
2. Jon Snow didn't stay dead. He became the most annoying character to me because he could get into any situation and escape unscathed
Anjelica Snorcket lmao like I’m sure the Stannis loyalists at Storm’s End will just happily step aside for their new lord 😂
I think he’s supposed to live, even in the books. Everything points to that
@@animecatalog9194 Yeah, but this just creates plot armour, which goes against the whole identity of GoT. If he has to live, don't kill him in the first place.
@@Ruzzky_Bly4t there are multiple characters that return to life in the books. Its not plot armor, its just plot
@@animecatalog9194 But in the series, John snow clearly avoids death in many occasions when it made little sense. If he would be brought back from the dead, smd then returned to normal that would be fine. But sadly he just received his brand new set of plot armor.
This analysis is spot on and summarizes a lot of my own thoughts and feelings of the series! Well done
I hated season 7 and hadn't got high expectations about the final season, but still... it was much disappointed. The worst episode for me was the Battle of Winterfell. There were so many scenes when a character was in a life threatening situation, (like a few second from a definate death stab/bite), and that moment the camera cut to another character who was soon in the same situation, and so on, so on... frustrating. All of the extras die like flies but none of the main characters is even seriously wounded. Not even Sam. And then the most underwhelming death in the series, the death of the big baddie of GoT, the King of the mysterious Others, a necromancer who lived thousands of years for this moment, who was presented to us from the beggining of the series as the prime evil force in that universe... and this guy got stabbed by a teen girl who somehow passed unnoticed by his highly skilled soldiers and jumped on him out of thin air screaming like crazy. Oh, and she didn't froze the moment he touched her because... she's Arya Stark. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, she could do to die in the last 4 seasons. Basically an immortal. And that's the end of the battle, the and of the war, the end of winter... an the end of GoT for me.
Theon isn’t an extra.
Lol theon's death was horrible bran could a just been like theon just stand still aryan coming but naw
It was stupid Ayra killing the NK the way she did, but it would have been just as stupid Jon doing it. That's unfortunately the way the show was going. Jon had escaped death in the most stupid ways in previous episodes and seasons and even in that particular episode, that's why they didn't give it to him, it would have been too much. It was better it being Ayra than Jon. Besides, it was silly anyway how killing the NK killed all the other WW and wights, it was just dumb after 8 seasons of build up. In the books I'm sure it'll be handled very differently if GRR ever finishes them.
Arya's plot armor turned out to be stronger than the wall
The New Khan z
The dislikes are from D and D
And fanatics
And people who know that not every death has to be a massive turning point.
@@warbler1984 and Who are so shit at writing that they dont recognise bad writing when they see it
And their clones apparently.
@@ForsakenDreamer7 Ay, their clones
Sees tittle. Sees video length. Uh oh. Buckle up.
lol yeah take your time with it. It is a long one that obviously contains a handful of complaints. I just had a lot of thoughts so uh I went for it
Try watching MauLer some time.
Steel Xcaliber just watched a few videos. Thanks for the recommendation
@@thefirebreathingleftist8648 You're welcome. Now try watching his streams on the MooLer channel, specifically EFaP 40 and 41. Twelve hours should be enough to test your endurance.
Didn't even realize it had been that long when it finished. Quality content
This is probably the best analysis of Game of Thrones I've ever seen. So many of these videos fall into the trap of nitpicking and blaming characters for actions rather than writers. But this video is simply fantastic
You proved you know what you're talking about by teasing the clip of Catelyn's death the entire video and finally playing it at the perfect moment.
Bravo.
I forgot about half the deaths from seasons 5 to 7
They aren’t memorable, aren’t they?
I forgot Daeneryus died, I think thats saying something
Dany was so messed up by D&D
So did you her name.
@@derekhofstetler3998 ?? What do you mean?
@@nizunia864 In modern English, one would say, "You forgot her damn name."
@@derekhofstetler3998 But I didn't.
You, good sir, just multiplied the workload i have writing my groups own D&D campaign.
I'm not complaining, as it's now gona be a much better plottprogression, i just wanted you to know.
Thank you and good day sir.
Nes from my own experience, “writing” a D&D campaign will doom it to failure, especially if you’re trying to do so in a way at all similar to something like GoT S1-4; playing a ttrpg is not at all the same as writing a book.
Do as you wish, obviously, and you know your table better than I do, but keeping the players near the crossroad of every major event and decision is far more often a formula for success than any plot point set in stone.
@@deProfundisAdAstra Thanks for the concern. ^^ I think i'm fine tho, as i give them initial qwests wich sett up the timer for campaign X. I basicaly use the Skyrimm qwest format where the players have to deal with the fallout of those initial qwests at some point. I just use this video as reference for dramatic conseqwences.
I don't write the whole campaign in stone, i just plan the rough shape and polish pices wich gett in range. And this vid showed me how to finetune potential plotttwists.
Sorry iff my writing's off. My native language is Ger and im on the device.
@@nes819 sheißa, broeter. Good luck with that
To further your point, Razbuten: I was legit sad in the first part of this video concerning major death, the later deaths actually spurred some anger in me, rather than heartbreak
Shireen’s death did have fallout though. It lead to Selyse killing herself, and Stannis’s men leaving in mass with the horses directly leading to his loss against Ramsey’s forces and his death, bringing an end to the War of the Five Kings.
One thing im glad you pointed out that i feel goes overlooked is Rickon. Yeah he may not have been important in the early seasons but how he was killed just shows the disrespect the writers had for characters they felt werent the essential main characters. They couldnt even give Rickon one line of dialogue all throughout the season. They couldnt of had Ramsey have a conversation with him, trying to threaten him, and have Rickon be like “Fuck you ima stark, ill never bend to you,” they couldnt of had him said something like that at the least? But instead his death was all for the purpose of giving Jon the motive to attack early (which was horrible for him as a strategy) and still he suffered no consequences from it, still won the battle and got named king in the north.
And to add to that, they disrespected him even more by not even having his siblings seem to care about him. Throughout all of seasons 7 and 8 with the starks, Rickon might have gotten like one line and them talking about him (if that). I understand that most fans didnt care about him but that doesnt matter when you look at the characters themselves. Even if Rickon had even less screen time, if your little brother dies, you are going to be sad and mourn him for more than two seconds or just simply acknowledge him through a throwaway line and nothing else. Im not even sure Arya knew about Rickons death and if she did, the writers did a horrible job of the letting the viewers see it. It just shows that they didnt see Rickon as an actual character or human being and his death was meaningless other than the fact to help them tie up loose ends.
This is a great video on the thematic failures of G.O.T.
I feel like my own views on writing have been massively changed by the catastrophe that was this show
Same.. Exactly this for me too!
the endind of Game of Thrones made me actually hate the Starks and root for Daenerys and the Targaryens. Also the Night King winning is now probably what everyone'd be fine with considering how the show actually ended lol
Thank the seven I'm not alone in hating the Starks after that atrocity of a season. I've always hated Sansa, but good lord, did her happy ending not feel earned in any way. And the way she had to belittle Edmure to show the audience that she's a "Strong Female Character (c)" was disgusting, just like every asanine word out of Arya and Bran's mouths. I'm okay with the Night King losing; I just wish he had killed at least *one* of them.
@@Silburific I always hated Sansa too lol, can't believe she turned out to be a Cersei/Littlefinger lovechild though. I wish the Night King didn't turn out to be such a joke, after seasons and seasons of build up the conclusion to his arc felt dissappointing af. I wish the people in King's Landing and the south would have felt the danger that comes from the NK and the white walkers, literally nobody was aware of the threat besides the main characters.
@@TheAkwarium I don't know if you know Preston Jacobs, but he's outlining how he would have written the final season, and he mentions how in his version, Cersei sends her army to The Neck to try and trap Dany and Jon's forces between them and the army of the dead. Now that they're on Dragonstone, the NK's army is en route to meet Cersei's (because they WON the battle at Winterfell, like an army of hundreds of thousands of corpses *should* against a handful of mortals).
Imagine THAT conflict, these arrogant southron knights realizing that all the scary bedtime stories were true, running for their lives as their comrades are cut down only to stand back up and start attacking their former brothers in arms. Cersie getting a raven that her forces have been decimated, and that those who weren't killed have deserted... and now, the forces that wiped out her army, wiped out Winterfell... are coming for her. Just thinking about that makes me hype, whereas I've literally forgotten huge chunks of the actual season 8.
@@Silburific dude that would have made a lot more sense and would have been such a hype. Cersei should never have been the final boss, I have no idea what these idiot showrunners were thinking. The biggest mistake they made was not bringing the Army of the Dead into the South, also Arya ex Machina randomly killing the NK lol
I also changed sides. I was a Stark fan along the entire series and at the end I really started to hate the northerners and the Starks.
Wow, I legit didn’t even realize none of the stark kids mentioned Rikon at all when they meet again
100% spot-on. I hope they remake the series in 2037 when the books are finally complete.
*2077
So many GoT videos that are being made from a place of hate. This video reminded my why I loved game of thrones.
Even the ridiculous mistakes are given time to be explained, rather than torn apart or being made into a meme.
This felt, cathartic. I know I’m going to have to get over how awfully this show ended eventually. But it really was everything to me.
Honestly, A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones changed my life. It is definitely hard to have the franchise be in the place it is in right now. I’m glad you found something in this.
I had a dream before season 8 began where the white walkers swept through Winterfell and killed Sansa, Arya, and Bran, all three, within the span of a few minutes, they killed them off unceremoniously, cut through them like an unstoppable force, then the walkers headed south.
Thats probably how it would have gone if GRRM was still running the show.
He haven't even finished the story yet.
Sure, the writers are dumb dumbs, but don't blame it wholly on them. Blame also the writer of the books behind the show. Without new materials, they don't know how to write the new seasons except set up an endgame and cherry pick from other fantasy tropes.
You summed up how I felt about Dany in legit 3 sentences, I'm so happy someone else gets it. I'm not just a crazy Dany fan. It was kinda dumb. It just wasn't worth it.
How the show should’ve ended “All Hail The Night King The First of His Name, Conqueror of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Master Of Dragons, Bringer of Winter, Lord of the Vast White North and Necromancer of Westeros” - dead eyed Wights applause
Ie, nothing and nobody we cared about mattered and it was all a huge waste of time
I remember that I got to have the crazy idea that Aerys shouted "burn them all", because he had a vision of the king of the night coming to king's landing, vision that left him insane (like hodor), so he filled the city with wild fire to stop it, haha
The only good way that the show would have ended would have been the Night King living. It'll teach us that while we're too busy worrying about politics the real threats are going almost completely unnoticed, not worry about politics and ( global warming for example ) would just go away.
Well it wouldn’t go away but it would be much more focused on so that it can be stopped
The NK would absolutely never win in the siege for KL. KL had oil pots (we know from when Dany showed up and Bronn told them to get more), they have ballistae which can be tipped with dragon glass, they have the Golden Company (which are supposed to be good fighters unlike the show portrayed), and the absolutely most important thing is Eurons fleet. With the fleet simply have to steer the battle semi-close to the ocean where Euron can throw constant arrow volley's and use those fancy fireball trebuchets.
Assuming that Jon's guess of 100k wights is true, and they only lost 20k at the battle of Winterfell (they got to reanimate a ton which is why they lost so few) then it makes sense that after conquering all of the cities down on the way, they would have probably 1.5-2m wights. And with all of the prep and soldiers that they'd have, as well as fighting in a better climate than they did up north, I think they would pull through with a win, though suffering many, many casualties.
@@potatoesaregood5127 yup, and the ground around KL would look like Verdun's aftermath for decades to come
@@potatoesaregood5127 yes he would have. The NK would be too intelligent to allow himself being hit by dragonglass ballistas.
What made me really pissed about NK being so irrelevant was the hype material they published for the last season. Basically that material showed different main characters sitting on the Iron Throne and one of them was Night King. It made me so excited of the different possibilities of who's going to end up on the Iron Throne.
In the end none of that hype material mattered since they never even gave NK the possibility to reach King's Landing in the first place.
Long story short: death must have consequences.
And it's logical ,
In the novels, it was clear that Dany was tilting hard as things progressed. The show gave her character an entirely different tone and then whipped right back to the mental break. It was disorienting for me.
There were moments in the early seasons where Dany's "heroics" are played up in a positive light, but you can still see that she is becoming more ruthless without developing into a mature ruler. She's still impulsive and childlike in how she deals with many people. The show's biggest fault in dealing with Dany's character development is that it never actively shows that she's a bad guy, or has negative characteristics. She gets nothing but praise for almost everything she does, and people worship her incessantly.
All it needed was some breadcrumbs, like the books, to make it more believable. They could've used Tyrion, who they decided to retain as a moral compass character instead of the jaded, deadly asshole he is in the books, to look at Dany objectively and say that she was becoming more cruel, considering they made every major character around her love her so much. He could've at least been the one PoV to see that she was getting worse.
Long summary short: Setups with no payoff. Expected payoff without setups.
What early got did well was establishing the cycle of Setup and Payoff through death. Setup leads to payoff (death) and those death then leads to more setups.
With regard to the Night King, I think there were 2 ways for his end to be satisfying. The first way would require him be the final bad guy in the entire show. Killing him off in the 4th episode does not match the caliber of the threat he poses, the show needed to resolve all the petty conflicts with humans first and then face him as the final enemy.
This would have also fit what the Night King represents: an existential threat. It should have been that any characters who are selfish enough to care more about the own power than the White Walkers would be killed while only those who unite to fight the larger threat should live. It is infuriating that Cersei does not care about the Night King but she suffers no consequence. She gets off scot-free because Jon, Dany, and the rest save her only for her (and later Dany) to be the final bad guys. No sir, if Cersei did not take the Night King seriously she should have been punished for her hubris and died to him.
I think it would have been enormously satisfying and purposeful for the Night King to make it all the way down to Kings Landing and kill Cersei and everyone else who didn't take him seriously. I don't think the Night King wants to sit on the Iron Throne (or maybe he does, he does seem intelligent) but the image of him doing would feel so symbolic. The living didn't do anything so now death rules.
And then if you don't want that to be the ending (because that's too dark, even for Game of Thrones) then you can have all the remaining people finally unite to defeat him. Now is the time for the characters to realize that all their petty disagreements are useless and in the aftermath of his defeat, I think all the characters can finally realize that fighting is wrong to establish a more peaceful future. I know there's problem with how the Night King making it so far south as that would mean like half of Westeros would either be refugees or dead (thus adding to the Night King's army) but I still think it's more satisfying and doable than him only making it to Winterfell with no impact on the story's greater plot.
The second option besides defeating the Night's King is, dare I say it, simply talking to him. In a story about how no one is truly good or truly evil I think showing that even the White Walkers can be reasoned with is especially powerful when up to this point, they are depicted as an ultimate evil. Give us a reason for what the White Walkers marched South in the first place. Maybe they felt threatened by Westeros, maybe the First Men broke a treaty with them and they are seeking justice, maybe the Night King is like any other King and just wants more land under his rule. Show us that the White Walkers are ironically human and defeating them requires treating them like humans.
And while other armies were defeated with wars, that is not feasible when it comes to the Night King since he is too powerful. Make it so the Night King is not killed by leaves because they negotiate a treaty with him or something. It would be so powerful to not end a war with violence but with word. It would also prove the show's core themes of the pointlessness of violence and force the characters who survived to build a better future. And of course it also futures the theme of unity and existentialism because the people of Westeros only win when they put aside their differences and work together to talk to and come to terms with the White Walkers.
(And in case the idea of negotiating with the White Walkers seems too out there, there is precedent for it in the books. Craster clearly has some kind of deal with the White Walkers which is why they don't kill him. And ancient legends in Westeros seems to imply that the First Men had some sort of deal with them too. Perhaps this forgotten deal is why the White Walkers march south, they are seeking retribution for a broken treaty.)
Robs death made me sad. He was one of my fav characters
Edit: totally forgot about Rickon Stark till you mentioned him
Razbuten is one of the best in the genre and is a huge inspiration to me for my own video essays.
The sound editing, the analysis and script writing, the editing and effects. Overall just a fantastic channel
That Moment When a fantastic TH-camr comments on another fantastic TH-camr's video
that moment when Varys' character and legacy overshadows his death.
Love how you did this vid man. Resonated with me totally. I hope they teach this in film schools aswell, so nobody has to make the same errors as those befallen to our beloved show. You've got yourself a new sub :)
You really explained how I felt about the whole series, good video thanks man.