I’ve been using Spare with Loaded Question for the last week and it’s a combo that works really well. I see a lot of content creators using spare but not taking advantage of its origin trait whenever possible and that trait seriously boosts it. Also it’s less of a laning weapon like some people use it as and more of a charge in and hit or finish someone off with. In that regard it does a fantastic job, it’s not the same as Austringer or Rose and I wouldn’t use them the same way, they each excel at their own thing.
The downfall that happens when you have devs that are also your play-testers. Things that get nerfed is whatever rolled them for straight matches, skill issue notwithstanding.
I have a rapid hit/opening shot Waking Vigil that feels so crisp but then I try to duel outside of its range and I might as well be blowing bubbles at my opponent.
Back in Witch Queen they updated the stats of some of the old 150s, Spare Rations got +4 range, +4 stability, and -9 aim assist. Those plus fours aren't doing much, but what I find surprising is it's still archetype high aim assist after a -9.
ngl it needs a bigger stat bump than rose, rose has grips, and spare doesnt. imo +5 or MAYBE +10 more range would be good, and maybe reduce the aim assist a bit to be more inline with 140s
Mind benders was always a shit inconsistent shotty .... nostalgia is a hell of a drug .. that thing hardly ever one hit ..but it had old qd so it felt so good ..as soon as felwinters came out ...mb was in the vault ..and u could feel a night and day difference... All the people who kept their godroll mb it's still shit today.... Even with the og perks ...wanna know why ?....figure it out 😂
@@kenzilbaptiste2519maybe because they nerf shotty range every 6 months by like a meter each time? Mindbenders was only used for QuickDraw and because it was in the archetype it was in.
@@andrewlance5471that’s kind of his point though. People cry about the fact that mindbenders was ruined when it was going to be bad since they replace QuickDraw with surplus on aggressives. I’d say it’s fine nowadays with the buff fragile focus got with threat detector being one of the best perks for shotguns too.
That’s me with Lodbrok, cause I know 360 autos aren’t meta in any part of the game but something about it gels with me in a way I can’t explain! lol The firing rhythm, the range that often surprises pulse and scout users, flinching them all over, love it. I try other autos or pulses and do worse with much better guns, so I’ve accepted that it’s just more fun to use what you like and not be a slave to what’s the best~
Do keep in mind that rangefinder is getting changed to no longer actually give a range boost. It won’t make this the best hand cannon still, I’d say that goes to fatebringer whenever the changes go live. But it will be definitely more competitive
Anything with Explosive Rounds, or Zen Moment to counter EP flinch, are going to be the new kings. Unfortunately for Spare and Fatebringer, that includes Rose and Nation of Beasts.
Austringer still my favourite by far. Just the feel of the gun and being craftable. Rose with elemental capacitor and stability masterwork comes close though.
@democreus Just try ones you got you might be surprised. My god roll ended up being elemental capacitor and eye of the storm. I use void hunter to buff stability and I got lucky with hammer forged, accurized, and range masterwork so it ended up being a complete all arounder.
I said this same thing on TVs review of Spare Rations, but I got the 5/5(Full bore/Hammer-forged, ricochet, range MW, slideshot, opening shot) god roll on my first drop of the weapon(I never have good RNG so this made me really happy), and it feels fantastic to me. And I'm not a HC user normally, the only other ones that I've really enjoyed at all are Cantata and Exalted, but compared to those, it just feels SO good.
I've reassessed how I view range overall and it's made finding the weapon I need for a particular loadout way easier and opens up a ton of options at the same time. All I care about now when I use a HC is, "can it hit 30m". If it can, great. I can work with that range and it opens up a ton of other perks besides OS and RF. If I want to hit 30m-40m, Pulse. >40m, Scout. 15m-20m, SMG.
I think the issue with Spare Rations isn't so much how it was refreshed but that the meta has just shifted a lot in the past 4 years, even if it came back 1 to 1 as it was before not much would really change because all the new version is missing is Rangefinder which won't even matter in a few months. (Though I will say I wish it could get the old curated combo of Overflow/Explosive Payload, which would have synergized with the new trait it has.) Somebody else also already mentioned this but what's funny is you said that they should've bumped up the Range for being a 140 now but that's exactly what they did back around Witch Queen giving it +4 Range +4 Stability and -9 Aim Assist, though I don't disagree that Spare along with other previous 150s should still have their Lightweight Frame like Rose does now to differentiate them a bit more. (I mean if we can have two difference kinds of 900 SMGs then I don't see why not have two different types of 140 HCs as well.) Though at the end of the day I'll still address the elephant in the room and agree that part of the problem is that Rose is just better, technically doesn't have as much Handling as Spare but the Grip traits on Rose can make up that difference, but I think there's more nuance to it than just "Spare Rations bad" with everything that's been changed and added to the game overtime.
I got one with full bore, ricochet rounds, slideshot, opening shot, and a stability masterwork, and it feels amazing in the crucible. Despite the fact that it has less range Spare Rations still feels so freakin good to use in pvp.
Them taking away rangefinder feels personal and intended, like bungo really hated Spare (mind benders too) and wanted them to just be talked about for hype for the game and then forgotten about
Took away Rangefinder, took away Rampage, took away Explosive Payload... Took away Opening Shot from Sole Survivor, took away Quickdraw and Slideshot from MIndbender's... Someone at bungie just really hates bringing back anything that's not Ménagerie-related me thinks
There's a pretty funny thing you can do with spare with solar subclasses. Any spare with swash*5 + radiant buff will give you a guaranteed 2 tap (102 crit damage). So you can sort of make a gimmicky build around this using peregrine greaves on solar titan with the shoulder charge melee, get your 1 hit shoulder charge and then have the ability to 2 tap for 4.5 seconds, refreshing on kill. You could also do it with solar hunter with the weighted knife. This is really the only way I see it having any sort of use in PvP and even then it's a very gimmicky setup, more of a "for fun" build. That being said, ancient gospel (from GoS raid) can do the same thing but is also solar so can refresh the radiant buff timer if you have that fragment equipped. Albeit with less handling and aim assist, but with more range.
Corkscrew, ricochet, moving target, and kinetic tremors with a range masterwork. I used this in the Lightblade GM and it worked out great especially when kiting the boss
There was always something really nice about this gun - some combination of the appearance, sight, sound design, the ornament, it just had that flair that I liked. So I made it work; it's my kinetic confetti gun. I have an old Palindrome with subsistence/rampage, and as long as it has a mag size over 10 you can reload two bullets for a kill and it one-taps to the head in low-end content. It's incredibly silly and irritating with the Sweaty Confetti mod. NOW I can do this with Spare Rations too, with swashbuckler replacing rampage. Solid 69/10 meme gun for low level content, now in kinetic flavor.
The only thing about this that wasn't done right, in my opinion, is that it should've been a Lightweight frame. Its perks are serviceable, but second to some of the best 140s. If it was a lightweight, it'd have a purpose. Lightweight 140s that trade range for handling, reload, and aim assist should be their own archetype beyond Rose. Spare should've been the second. edit: and, it would've allowed Rose to still be the 'better' one and warrant being a comp reward with its origin perk being the way it is. edit2: Oh, and they should convert some of the other old 150s to lightweight 140s as well. edit3: And to be clear, a lightweight 140 hand cannon would be better for my playstyle than any high-range adaptive. With Rose, I find myself making better plays, having better positioning, just playing better. Problem is, I hate the sights on rose, I miss half my shots. I land my shots with Spare. This being a lightweight would have been perfect for me, perks aside. Plus, I never got my godroll rose anyways. Grinded a ton. It never dropped. Either zero range, or the wrong perks. So my best Spare is better than my best Rose.
You are 100% right for right now but I think that's a big part of why they turned all lightweight 150s in to 140s. Apart from them having almost no disadvantages compared to 140s, very mobile and skilful players were too dominant. Right now with the huge range advantage standard 140s have it would be prime time to make Spare a lightweight again but then when they "standardise" range next season it sounds like they'd be back to the same old problem and adaptives would have nothing to offer.
@@MrMightyZ I disagree. Simply put, the lower range stat would hurt quite a bit. In fact, it would probably make more of a difference than currently, particularly with something like a rangefinder rose, since the zoom would be less impactful than the range stat itself.
@@MrMightyZ The effective range of hand cannons is going up to be closer to rangefinder levels, but less than that of rangefinder, with the effect of the range stat itself not being changed, but zoom/rangefinder no longer being a significant factor on it. How the effective range scales relative to the range stat is not changing - if we just ignore zoom as a stat, they are quite literally just giving hand cannons a flat range buff across the board, which means that a 100 range hand cannon still has way more range than one with like 50-60
It’s crazy how the pinnacle role for PvE back then was still outlaw rampage. Now a days legendary weapons can cause room clearing nukes and give you instant over-shields.
I’ve actually had a lot of fun with Swashbuckler on dawnblade. Once you get the first kill, the little bump extends the effective range to make up for the lower stat. And if you land a celestial fire kill, radiant + swash x5 will 2-tap a lot of people. My roll has smallbore, ricky rounds, rapid hit, swash, and a range masterwork.
I got one with subsistance/focused fury. Range masterwork, high cal, but then has fluted barrel. I cant use other rolls, it just feels too good! i had the slideshot/opening and the rapid hit/kinetic tremors, and dismantle both after thying them! For some reason that subsistence/ff just feels like all i need! flcused fury procs every single life in PvP, becomes a 2h1b and makes up for a bit of the range, subsistence works well with ff and the kill chain potencial skyrockets, i haven't lost a 2v1 for runing out of bulets since i've started using this thing. Then high cal/mw for the range and fluted is great to play to the strength, 86 handling. another thing is the origin trait, it gets way too little credit, extra range and flinch res for 1.5sec, aka more than the bodyshot ttk so it gets value all the way to the worst case! Its a super agressive handcannon and above all, it still feels like spare rations. I vaulted a fully crafted austringer, a 10/10 rose, and a 10/10 fatebringer (timelost), thats how good the weapon feels. defenetly different than all these top tier HCs, but it has his place
Personally, I’m exhausted with 140s and really wish 180s got more love. Umless you have Posterity from DSC (and even then I wish it had something else), you next best option is Frontier’s Cry-both are stat monsters, but one is “difficult” to acwuire and the other is missing stronger perks. Really hoping we get a strong, craftable, easily acceptable 180 in an upcoming season. That said, I think of SP as a discount Thorn. If it had a column 3 Encore, I think it would’ve made a lot of difference.
My favorite 180 is Trust. I love using it, but I do feel like it needs something to be more competitive. I don't know what, because I'm not that deep into knowing how these things work, but... something.
@@jedimike7622 having looked at the stats and pool, I think it comes down to decent combos. For PvE, it shines with Rampage and Incandescent….but there are other craftable HC that can do it better; for PvP, you are hoping for range perks + a good column 3 like Opening Shot or Rapid Hit + a column 4 dmg perk like Rampage, GT, or Junkie. Overall, because of the perk pool size, getting a perfect Trust is hard. Even then, it’s competiting with a lot of guns, mostly 140s, for that slot in either content.
@@jedimike7622 I had my Y2 Trust and Spare Rations for a long time. I’m still grinding for a perfect Trust but I’d love a good 180 craftable next season. Preferably a kinetic that can flex pvp and pve
The feel of Spare Rations is still there - snappy as all hell and a sticky shot overall. Where range isn't as important (PvE like you said), it still feels great. But it isn't there currently in the PvP sandbox. I'd rather just use Ace.
Honestly, it's a sidearm to me, and it's great with exotics that you'd use sidearms with. I took a handling mw and slideshot swash with mine, it crushes in a sweet spot specifically between pulse and smg range that's really effective to play. It hits 3 heads like it's nothing, and sliding left and right every few bullets to throw people off is really rewarding to me. If it had shipped as a different hand cannon it would have got traction, honestly. But it never would have been what it was, obviously, because it doesn't exist anymore for a good reason. I don't need my hand cannon to duel with pulses, I don't really care about dueling against ranged players, after a regular kill swash puts it to 75, it condends, the origin trait is a free opening shot, it pairs well with a shotgun, I honestly don't understand why people don't appreciate it for what it is.
It's absolutely infuriating that it shipped the way it did. Just a harsh reminder that bungie completely removed an entire family of hand cannons from the game.
It's also a harsh reminder that bungie literally want to kill the PvP community for some reason. Surely it couldn't have been that hard to give it 5 extra base range or something or make it lightweight.
@@terribletimes902 How do you balance it out then? It has the same (slightly faster) time to kill as 140s did at the time, and even though 140s were better for dueling, it was easier to spam 150s.
@@terribletimes902 even worse, converting all existing 150’s to 140’s but not adjusting they’re base stats and removing the lightweight benefits, effectively turning all of them into the shittiest 140’s you can find.
I have a 4 out of 5 Spare with 66 range with Fullbore, Light Mag and range MW and Moving Target and Kinetic Tremors and even though I only have 40 stability it feels phenomenal but yes I agree I could out-duel myself at least 90% of the time with any of my Outlasts, Horror’s Leasts or Ogmas. But it feels SO GOOD and as the 120 Taken version proves, that could be 50% just the sound. SOOO GOOD!
For me slide shot focused fury is the only reason to run this. I absolutely loved finite impactor with slideways FF and this beats that. Being able to keep FF up pretty much permanently with either radiant or empowering rift is a lot of fun. Slightly disappointing it did not get the dire promise treatment though. hopefully this perk combo comes again on a better stats HC
Honestly, I think the best way to fix this hand cannon would be to make it a lightweight like Rose is, now. Same 140 rpm and all that, just more maneuverable.
this season have you noticed the spawn changes they made in control? I haven't seen anything on it, but while holding B that team seems to spawn further forward on larger maps, because of this the Bless team is getting backed into spawn like they're on dead cliffs, and like dead cliffs it seems like even if they've pushed into your spawn the game won't flip the spawns.
Dunno if ill ever use it now with my own personal god roll rose, rangfinder and elemental capacitor, steady rounds, hammer forge, heavy grip! I could have 80 stabilty on arc and 100 handling, 48 range with rangfinder... or go void and have 100 stability and 50 handling, add armor mods and it is crisp, doesnt get flinched, handles well, and has that lightweight bonus while hitting pretty far for my aggressive style. I run sealed ahamkara grasps and a rapid fire fusion, zeolots reward, the one from gos. Smoke people on void and get the 50 ae and now more jump height. On arc, can tempest strike around cornors and clean up in the air. Got both these guns last season and put 500 plus pvp kills om each.
Got a spare with hammerforged, ricochet round, slideshot, swashbuckler and range masterwork. I prefer swash over opening because swash times 1 allowes you to kill a T9 or below resil guardian in 2 headshots and 1 body. If you get swash times 5 it even deals more damage than ace with memento mori
I have a number of roles with Fluted Barrel and a Handling MW making the stat a 96. If range is normalized on Hand Cannons in a way that makes its low range not as much of a factor, having a 96 Handling Hand Cannon could be nuts.
I thought the thumbnail meant the barrel on spare was getting neutered because of its awful range, meanwhile the other 140s are like gigachad and didnt get neutered.
I have to think the non-updated stats on Spare Rations is a oversight, but even then, the kinetic slot now has the likes of Austringer, Eyasluna and Fatebringer. Spare Rations would need something REALLY standout to hang with those monsters.
I think a lot of the non-updated stats has to come down to the origin trait. It boosts almost all of the stats when you activate it, which you do by picking up ammo. It’s just a different playstyle then a lot of streamers have been using but it’s really helpful in stuff like Control and Iron Banner
Ironically this stat problem is the case for "older" weapons Like judgments sittings at a base 42 stability and range this with Hand cannon sights makes it feel like garbage even when you're meant to build craft into Judgment's stats
They could have kept the 150 archetype in general if they made it to where the range was absolutely abysmal. The biggest issue was always that 150's had the same TTK at the same ranges as a 140 but it just did it 10 RM faster. They did 150's right in Destiny. 150's in Destiny had similar TTK to 140's but their range was absolutely terrible and the drop off as horrible.
@@QudoRS 150's had a very similar ttk their range was just kept to extreme close ranges which is where shotguns thrive. In their optimal ranges 150's actually did really well.
this is the only weapon from this season's engrams that i haven't gotten to drop a single one of. still. i've crafted a couple of the taken themed ones, but have never gotten a spare 2.0
I'd say that barrel and mag needs to be ricochet and full bore. This is the only hand cannon I've taken full bore on but honestly the handling can take the hit for a little extra range. Even with that it's still best used very aggressively
They did that to ALL returning reckoning weapons. All the weapons returned with a much worse perk selection for the most part. Example: Sole survivor once got 4th times/ firing line. No longer possible.
Im so glad someone finally acknowledges that healing rifts are a thing in pvp. Im so tired of seeing people callout void overshields while they pretend like a healing rift doesnt do the same thing but better.
I don't know how you hit anything with 47 stability on controller. Completely unviable for me. I need 65+ stability to use a Hand Cannon because I'm bad.
Pull the stick down more as recoil climbs higher. Learn the shot rhythm and recoil becomes more manageable. I used to roll near max stability. But after the changes i no longer go for 50+ stability. Depends on the feel of the weapon too, I got 5/5 god roll of most iconic HCs, but never use any because it blocks my sight or the feel is trash
The lack of unique/creative PvP rolls is really what disappointed me the most. I’ll fight through mid stats if it means I can do something cool/unique, like kindled orchid - still the only kill clip + rampage hand cannon. I was a little surprised you didn’t highlight the Disaster Plan intrinsic a little more. Would’ve been interested to see exactly how much range falloff it adds, because that feels like it could be its saving grace if they buff it a little. Unfortunately it’s almost worthless in elim-style game modes. I’ve been using my rapid hit + focused fury and RH + KC rolls, each with 54 range
I've said it before, and i'll say it again here: withold your judgement until next season people. Because it really feels like quite a few hcs now have been made in preparation for the rangefinder nerf next season, the two big ones being epochal and now spare rations
Is it in the cards for bungie to give spare like +7 range to make it competitive like they did before introducing it? Maybe if it's still underwhelming after the zoom standardization
I’m admittedly not great with hand cannons, but I got a really good roll so I tried it out and got eviscerated. Didn’t even make it a whole game before switching to austringer and immediately got a 10 streak
I like to think I’m not coping, but slide focused fury makes spare have a permanent damage buff, which makes it the most forgiving 140 in the game. Cammy talked about finite impact or and how slideways focused fury was a mild breaker, and here is a better version of that hand cannon….
A roll I see nobdoy mentioning; Slideshot + Swashbuckler. You need Slideshot for the range. Swashbuckler is where it becomes interesting. Throwing Knifes, Celestial Fire etc. Getting a kill with those gives you Radiant on top of Swashbuckler X5 which let’s you 2 tap with this 140 rpm!
This is the problem I’ve seen with a lot of hand cannons lately and it’s lacking in range department except when u kill the stability for extra range. Hand cannons are a harder gun for me to duel with as I am not the best aim with them while a pulse rifle u can map from almost any range and do it with 40 bullets . I think they have nerfed hand cannons to the point it’s only good for mid range or peak shooting. If I duel someone and miss a couple shots it’s usually game over
It’s great follow-up Hc for sniping. Sure, you don’t have the range as others, but all you need to do is stay out of those ranged gunfights. Handling is king (for me)
Got Rapid Hit/KC for pvp and I like it a lot. I’m on console and I prefer stability and recoil control over range. I almost prefer it over my Rose with Rapid Hit/Explosive Payload. I also have Rapid Hit/Kinetic Tremors and it feels great in pve, I need to see if Lucky Pants affects the tremor’s damage.
I personally, despite it being just mid, really enjoy spare rations. It doesn’t always has to be the best weapon that is really fun to use. I wish people came back to this attitude. Even in casual PvP people nowadays sweat their balls off with meta weapons equipped. Great vid 👌
I just don’t think we had other weapons that could compete with it at the time and now it falters. But at the end of the day, the best feeling gun is what people will choose and it’s why I use Austringer over Rose because of that
bungie needs to bring back lightweight for these low stat 140s. im not saying 150s should return (contrary to what the handcannon/shotty/stompees hunters are saying on twitter), but +2 mobility can both help you mid gunfight and let you close the gap easier when fighting against higher range handcannons. I just feel lightweight would be more interesting and easier than buffing every one of the low stat handcannons, like waking vigil, finite impactor, and spare rations (ironically finite impactor was always adaptive, its stats are just ass to begin with)
The Austringer i used 4 years ago to compete with Spare Rations, i can now, just craft. Fluted High Cal Eye of the Storm Opening Shot. with a Masterwork its Matches the stability of spare rations and its got better Handling and aim assist. no kills needed for the ease of use, it just wont miss in a dual. soooooooooo... meh I'm good. you are right, they kinda forgot to update the gun lol
I don't know why they never changed the stats of the previous 150. Even the exotics have bad range, it was that trade off but now they need to remove that.
A bit pointless to revive a lot of these Gambit Prime weapons when what made them unique or top tier pretty much has gotten outclassed by the progression of time and addition of new loot. File it under "don't burn a conventional good-god roll, but don't go nuts trying to chase one or expect the world" Funniest thing and it honestly gives more credit's due to Bungie's loot curation is how something like the world pool sniper Fugue is practically better than Sole Survivor. Lastly on the subject of old HC that had high aim assist, I'm reminded how the last time we had Swashbuckler+Demo on a HC was Season of Dawn's reboot of the stone cold classic Jack Queen King 3. I genuinely miss that combo as I feel it plays super nice for wombo combo solar hunter with YAS.
First mind bender now spare
My exact comment.
Who's next? Dust Rock Blues?
Perfectly objective and informative video bud.
Sole Survivor got just as shafted. So depressing man :(
I’ve been using Spare with Loaded Question for the last week and it’s a combo that works really well. I see a lot of content creators using spare but not taking advantage of its origin trait whenever possible and that trait seriously boosts it. Also it’s less of a laning weapon like some people use it as and more of a charge in and hit or finish someone off with. In that regard it does a fantastic job, it’s not the same as Austringer or Rose and I wouldn’t use them the same way, they each excel at their own thing.
Somebody over there at Bungie really hated Spare-Benders and reprised both of them as PVE guns out of spite.
Lol but for real is there a single old 150 now 140 thats still good?
@@reynauldwhistles2338rose lol other then that tho....
The downfall that happens when you have devs that are also your play-testers.
Things that get nerfed is whatever rolled them for straight matches, skill issue notwithstanding.
@@uncoveredkhan09gaming38rose is still a proper 150. Really wish SR was one still
@@reynauldwhistles2338sunshot I believe is the only one besides Rose?
Waking Vigil was also left behind with the Lightweight range stat when updated.
It's the saddest thing; it's got one of the coolest-looking designs of any of the 140's but it just feels terrible to use.
I have a rapid hit/opening shot Waking Vigil that feels so crisp but then I try to duel outside of its range and I might as well be blowing bubbles at my opponent.
I’m surprised(I guess I’m not really surprised) that Bungie didn’t adjust the old 150 stats.
Still one of the best feeling hand cannons in the game to this day for dueling
Back in Witch Queen they updated the stats of some of the old 150s, Spare Rations got +4 range, +4 stability, and -9 aim assist. Those plus fours aren't doing much, but what I find surprising is it's still archetype high aim assist after a -9.
Shows you how power crept it was back then. 150’s NEEDED to be kept in check with bad stats like waking vigil was.
ngl it needs a bigger stat bump than rose, rose has grips, and spare doesnt. imo +5 or MAYBE +10 more range would be good, and maybe reduce the aim assist a bit to be more inline with 140s
funnily enough they reverted the stat change except they left the aim assist lower
It almost feels personal what Bungie did to Spare Rations and Mindbenders when they were re-introduced
Missed out on being craftable right when they were gonna make less weapons craftable
Mind benders was always a shit inconsistent shotty .... nostalgia is a hell of a drug .. that thing hardly ever one hit ..but it had old qd so it felt so good ..as soon as felwinters came out ...mb was in the vault ..and u could feel a night and day difference...
All the people who kept their godroll mb it's still shit today.... Even with the og perks ...wanna know why ?....figure it out 😂
@@kenzilbaptiste2519maybe because they nerf shotty range every 6 months by like a meter each time? Mindbenders was only used for QuickDraw and because it was in the archetype it was in.
@@andrewlance5471that’s kind of his point though. People cry about the fact that mindbenders was ruined when it was going to be bad since they replace QuickDraw with surplus on aggressives. I’d say it’s fine nowadays with the buff fragile focus got with threat detector being one of the best perks for shotguns too.
The kinetic tremors one might be really good after/if the HC buff they announced goes through.
I kept a couple rolls with kinetic trem just for this reason
How many shots to proc tremors? Hopefully not 12 like sidearms.
@@andrewlance5471 6 shots for tremors
@@96ayasakibruh i'm never putting that on a hc
I have a slideshot tremors that feels great. Still hunting the rapid hit/tremors one
I have played 10 crucible matches in the last 2 seasons. I still watch all your videos because of how good your in depth reviews are
Same here, though you've got way more crucible games on me lol
He does touch on PvE rolls too, admittedly to a lesser degree.
just like me fr
I feel that. Only time I will go into pvp is solely for weapon roll farming
0:25...Retribution. God I miss that map. I remember the chaos that map turned into during the Hard Light meta
Unfortunately, I still love how it feels, despite rose, nation and fatebringer being infinitely better stats and perk wise
Better range but spare has it elsewhere. It's a total stat monster and with range changes coming it could be even better
To be fair, that's alot about what weapons are like in this game! Which is weird if u think about it!! 🤣🤣🤣
Same. Austringer and Spare are the best feeling hand cannons for me, and I’ll choose them over the stat monsters any day.
That’s me with Lodbrok, cause I know 360 autos aren’t meta in any part of the game but something about it gels with me in a way I can’t explain! lol The firing rhythm, the range that often surprises pulse and scout users, flinching them all over, love it.
I try other autos or pulses and do worse with much better guns, so I’ve accepted that it’s just more fun to use what you like and not be a slave to what’s the best~
It's because of its super high handling, reload and aim assist
Do keep in mind that rangefinder is getting changed to no longer actually give a range boost. It won’t make this the best hand cannon still, I’d say that goes to fatebringer whenever the changes go live. But it will be definitely more competitive
Anything with Explosive Rounds, or Zen Moment to counter EP flinch, are going to be the new kings.
Unfortunately for Spare and Fatebringer, that includes Rose and Nation of Beasts.
@@ShaoShaoMienshaofatebringer has ep…
What will Rangefinder actually do then?
@@chubbubdreamer6904 no range bonus, it will give an aim assist bonus or something like that I think
@@thecupcakelord5103 Sounds like that will be too weak or too strong.
This should have been a craftable weapon, not to mention it should have been fixed in the 150 merge
Austringer still my favourite by far. Just the feel of the gun and being craftable. Rose with elemental capacitor and stability masterwork comes close though.
Honestly try out eyasluna if you get a good roll
I was an Austringer boi, but then I got a Moving Target + Rangefinder Eyasluna.
@@VAVORiALGod luck with that roll once the rework to rangefinder comes in
@democreus Just try ones you got you might be surprised. My god roll ended up being elemental capacitor and eye of the storm. I use void hunter to buff stability and I got lucky with hammer forged, accurized, and range masterwork so it ended up being a complete all arounder.
I said this same thing on TVs review of Spare Rations, but I got the 5/5(Full bore/Hammer-forged, ricochet, range MW, slideshot, opening shot) god roll on my first drop of the weapon(I never have good RNG so this made me really happy), and it feels fantastic to me. And I'm not a HC user normally, the only other ones that I've really enjoyed at all are Cantata and Exalted, but compared to those, it just feels SO good.
a well rolled Cantata feels really good, ain't gonna lie
I'm just surprised they didn't update the stats, they did it for others, you'd think they'd remember to do that
I've reassessed how I view range overall and it's made finding the weapon I need for a particular loadout way easier and opens up a ton of options at the same time. All I care about now when I use a HC is, "can it hit 30m". If it can, great. I can work with that range and it opens up a ton of other perks besides OS and RF. If I want to hit 30m-40m, Pulse. >40m, Scout. 15m-20m, SMG.
I think the issue with Spare Rations isn't so much how it was refreshed but that the meta has just shifted a lot in the past 4 years, even if it came back 1 to 1 as it was before not much would really change because all the new version is missing is Rangefinder which won't even matter in a few months. (Though I will say I wish it could get the old curated combo of Overflow/Explosive Payload, which would have synergized with the new trait it has.)
Somebody else also already mentioned this but what's funny is you said that they should've bumped up the Range for being a 140 now but that's exactly what they did back around Witch Queen giving it +4 Range +4 Stability and -9 Aim Assist, though I don't disagree that Spare along with other previous 150s should still have their Lightweight Frame like Rose does now to differentiate them a bit more. (I mean if we can have two difference kinds of 900 SMGs then I don't see why not have two different types of 140 HCs as well.)
Though at the end of the day I'll still address the elephant in the room and agree that part of the problem is that Rose is just better, technically doesn't have as much Handling as Spare but the Grip traits on Rose can make up that difference, but I think there's more nuance to it than just "Spare Rations bad" with everything that's been changed and added to the game overtime.
I got one with full bore, ricochet rounds, slideshot, opening shot, and a stability masterwork, and it feels amazing in the crucible. Despite the fact that it has less range Spare Rations still feels so freakin good to use in pvp.
4:32 I didn’t get the thumbnail reference or details until you mentioned it
I got rapid hit tremors last night. Been using it on my strand hunter with lucky pants. Seems alright.
Them taking away rangefinder feels personal and intended, like bungo really hated Spare (mind benders too) and wanted them to just be talked about for hype for the game and then forgotten about
Took away Rangefinder, took away Rampage, took away Explosive Payload...
Took away Opening Shot from Sole Survivor, took away Quickdraw and Slideshot from MIndbender's...
Someone at bungie just really hates bringing back anything that's not Ménagerie-related me thinks
There's a pretty funny thing you can do with spare with solar subclasses. Any spare with swash*5 + radiant buff will give you a guaranteed 2 tap (102 crit damage). So you can sort of make a gimmicky build around this using peregrine greaves on solar titan with the shoulder charge melee, get your 1 hit shoulder charge and then have the ability to 2 tap for 4.5 seconds, refreshing on kill. You could also do it with solar hunter with the weighted knife.
This is really the only way I see it having any sort of use in PvP and even then it's a very gimmicky setup, more of a "for fun" build.
That being said, ancient gospel (from GoS raid) can do the same thing but is also solar so can refresh the radiant buff timer if you have that fragment equipped. Albeit with less handling and aim assist, but with more range.
Corkscrew, ricochet, moving target, and kinetic tremors with a range masterwork. I used this in the Lightblade GM and it worked out great especially when kiting the boss
There was always something really nice about this gun - some combination of the appearance, sight, sound design, the ornament, it just had that flair that I liked.
So I made it work; it's my kinetic confetti gun. I have an old Palindrome with subsistence/rampage, and as long as it has a mag size over 10 you can reload two bullets for a kill and it one-taps to the head in low-end content. It's incredibly silly and irritating with the Sweaty Confetti mod. NOW I can do this with Spare Rations too, with swashbuckler replacing rampage. Solid 69/10 meme gun for low level content, now in kinetic flavor.
As someone who has a 1k of crucible kills on spare I will uncomfortably use my god roll eyasluna.
The only thing about this that wasn't done right, in my opinion, is that it should've been a Lightweight frame.
Its perks are serviceable, but second to some of the best 140s.
If it was a lightweight, it'd have a purpose.
Lightweight 140s that trade range for handling, reload, and aim assist should be their own archetype beyond Rose. Spare should've been the second.
edit: and, it would've allowed Rose to still be the 'better' one and warrant being a comp reward with its origin perk being the way it is.
edit2: Oh, and they should convert some of the other old 150s to lightweight 140s as well.
edit3: And to be clear, a lightweight 140 hand cannon would be better for my playstyle than any high-range adaptive. With Rose, I find myself making better plays, having better positioning, just playing better. Problem is, I hate the sights on rose, I miss half my shots. I land my shots with Spare. This being a lightweight would have been perfect for me, perks aside.
Plus, I never got my godroll rose anyways. Grinded a ton. It never dropped. Either zero range, or the wrong perks. So my best Spare is better than my best Rose.
You are 100% right for right now but I think that's a big part of why they turned all lightweight 150s in to 140s. Apart from them having almost no disadvantages compared to 140s, very mobile and skilful players were too dominant.
Right now with the huge range advantage standard 140s have it would be prime time to make Spare a lightweight again but then when they "standardise" range next season it sounds like they'd be back to the same old problem and adaptives would have nothing to offer.
@@MrMightyZ I disagree. Simply put, the lower range stat would hurt quite a bit.
In fact, it would probably make more of a difference than currently, particularly with something like a rangefinder rose, since the zoom would be less impactful than the range stat itself.
@@tenacity25 You may be right. I may have misinterpreted what the changes to range are going to be.
@@MrMightyZ The effective range of hand cannons is going up to be closer to rangefinder levels, but less than that of rangefinder, with the effect of the range stat itself not being changed, but zoom/rangefinder no longer being a significant factor on it. How the effective range scales relative to the range stat is not changing - if we just ignore zoom as a stat, they are quite literally just giving hand cannons a flat range buff across the board, which means that a 100 range hand cannon still has way more range than one with like 50-60
It’s crazy how the pinnacle role for PvE back then was still outlaw rampage. Now a days legendary weapons can cause room clearing nukes and give you instant over-shields.
I’ve actually had a lot of fun with Swashbuckler on dawnblade. Once you get the first kill, the little bump extends the effective range to make up for the lower stat. And if you land a celestial fire kill, radiant + swash x5 will 2-tap a lot of people. My roll has smallbore, ricky rounds, rapid hit, swash, and a range masterwork.
My biggest gripe is how Spare Rations and the other Season 6 reprised weapons aren’t even craftable.
I do not know if anyone said it but WOW, what a snipe with the Cloudstrike in that clip. Great work on the video, CG
I got one with subsistance/focused fury. Range masterwork, high cal, but then has fluted barrel. I cant use other rolls, it just feels too good! i had the slideshot/opening and the rapid hit/kinetic tremors, and dismantle both after thying them! For some reason that subsistence/ff just feels like all i need! flcused fury procs every single life in PvP, becomes a 2h1b and makes up for a bit of the range, subsistence works well with ff and the kill chain potencial skyrockets, i haven't lost a 2v1 for runing out of bulets since i've started using this thing. Then high cal/mw for the range and fluted is great to play to the strength, 86 handling. another thing is the origin trait, it gets way too little credit, extra range and flinch res for 1.5sec, aka more than the bodyshot ttk so it gets value all the way to the worst case! Its a super agressive handcannon and above all, it still feels like spare rations. I vaulted a fully crafted austringer, a 10/10 rose, and a 10/10 fatebringer (timelost), thats how good the weapon feels. defenetly different than all these top tier HCs, but it has his place
Personally, I’m exhausted with 140s and really wish 180s got more love. Umless you have Posterity from DSC (and even then I wish it had something else), you next best option is Frontier’s Cry-both are stat monsters, but one is “difficult” to acwuire and the other is missing stronger perks. Really hoping we get a strong, craftable, easily acceptable 180 in an upcoming season.
That said, I think of SP as a discount Thorn. If it had a column 3 Encore, I think it would’ve made a lot of difference.
My favorite 180 is Trust. I love using it, but I do feel like it needs something to be more competitive. I don't know what, because I'm not that deep into knowing how these things work, but... something.
@@jedimike7622 having looked at the stats and pool, I think it comes down to decent combos. For PvE, it shines with Rampage and Incandescent….but there are other craftable HC that can do it better; for PvP, you are hoping for range perks + a good column 3 like Opening Shot or Rapid Hit + a column 4 dmg perk like Rampage, GT, or Junkie.
Overall, because of the perk pool size, getting a perfect Trust is hard. Even then, it’s competiting with a lot of guns, mostly 140s, for that slot in either content.
@@DrStunJosh I know. I just love the way it feels, more than any other HC.
@@jedimike7622 I had my Y2 Trust and Spare Rations for a long time. I’m still grinding for a perfect Trust but I’d love a good 180 craftable next season. Preferably a kinetic that can flex pvp and pve
@@DrStunJosh same here. Reset Gambit like three times in one week this season.
i'm liking Spare Rations, though i think we'll definitely see a significant change in the overall landscape once the range/zoom change goes thru
The feel of Spare Rations is still there - snappy as all hell and a sticky shot overall. Where range isn't as important (PvE like you said), it still feels great. But it isn't there currently in the PvP sandbox. I'd rather just use Ace.
Still haven’t gotten a hand cannon to clear my Eyasluna.. hitmark,ricochet,rangefinder,snapshot and range MW. Target mod gets you 90 AA. Absolute unit
Honestly, it's a sidearm to me, and it's great with exotics that you'd use sidearms with. I took a handling mw and slideshot swash with mine, it crushes in a sweet spot specifically between pulse and smg range that's really effective to play. It hits 3 heads like it's nothing, and sliding left and right every few bullets to throw people off is really rewarding to me. If it had shipped as a different hand cannon it would have got traction, honestly. But it never would have been what it was, obviously, because it doesn't exist anymore for a good reason. I don't need my hand cannon to duel with pulses, I don't really care about dueling against ranged players, after a regular kill swash puts it to 75, it condends, the origin trait is a free opening shot, it pairs well with a shotgun, I honestly don't understand why people don't appreciate it for what it is.
"i can't tell y- ITSEVERYGAME"
i'm dead 💀bungie pls buff the range stat on my boy
They actually did adjust the stats a while back. Reduced the aim assist and added some range amd stability
I still have mine (The OG one) with chamber compensator, AP rounds, rapid hit, RF and range MW. It slaps
It's absolutely infuriating that it shipped the way it did. Just a harsh reminder that bungie completely removed an entire family of hand cannons from the game.
Still their worst decision by far. Too lazy to balance an archetype so just remove it
It's also a harsh reminder that bungie literally want to kill the PvP community for some reason. Surely it couldn't have been that hard to give it 5 extra base range or something or make it lightweight.
@@samuelmeecham1951this.
@@terribletimes902 How do you balance it out then? It has the same (slightly faster) time to kill as 140s did at the time, and even though 140s were better for dueling, it was easier to spam 150s.
@@terribletimes902 even worse, converting all existing 150’s to 140’s but not adjusting they’re base stats and removing the lightweight benefits, effectively turning all of them into the shittiest 140’s you can find.
Sideshot and Focus fury can turn this thing into a baby Hawkmoon.
I recommend trying it out
I got one of these with 67 range, 50 stability with 60 handling. It has sliding shot and focused fury
I have a 4 out of 5 Spare with 66 range with Fullbore, Light Mag and range MW and Moving Target and Kinetic Tremors and even though I only have 40 stability it feels phenomenal but yes I agree I could out-duel myself at least 90% of the time with any of my Outlasts, Horror’s Leasts or Ogmas.
But it feels SO GOOD and as the 120 Taken version proves, that could be 50% just the sound. SOOO GOOD!
I feel like they will buff it considering it’s an adaptive with lightweight stats. Probably reduce handling and give it more range. Hopefully.
Bungie removing 150 rpm handcannons really hurts more than they intended I feel like
For me slide shot focused fury is the only reason to run this. I absolutely loved finite impactor with slideways FF and this beats that. Being able to keep FF up pretty much permanently with either radiant or empowering rift is a lot of fun. Slightly disappointing it did not get the dire promise treatment though. hopefully this perk combo comes again on a better stats HC
I can intellectually understand its shortcomings, but it just got me my first and only "We Ran," so it is my favourite "new" HC.
I just got one with offhand strike and opening shot, range masterwork. I will let you know how it plays.
Honestly, I think the best way to fix this hand cannon would be to make it a lightweight like Rose is, now. Same 140 rpm and all that, just more maneuverable.
How do you feel about Targeted Redaction? I just crafted it and I’m just using base Well-Rounded + Keep Away and it feels really nice
this season have you noticed the spawn changes they made in control? I haven't seen anything on it, but while holding B that team seems to spawn further forward on larger maps, because of this the Bless team is getting backed into spawn like they're on dead cliffs, and like dead cliffs it seems like even if they've pushed into your spawn the game won't flip the spawns.
I dislike that when they bring old weapons back, they almost never correct the stats to reflect the archetype change
Dunno if ill ever use it now with my own personal god roll rose, rangfinder and elemental capacitor, steady rounds, hammer forge, heavy grip!
I could have 80 stabilty on arc and 100 handling, 48 range with rangfinder... or go void and have 100 stability and 50 handling, add armor mods and it is crisp, doesnt get flinched, handles well, and has that lightweight bonus while hitting pretty far for my aggressive style.
I run sealed ahamkara grasps and a rapid fire fusion, zeolots reward, the one from gos. Smoke people on void and get the 50 ae and now more jump height. On arc, can tempest strike around cornors and clean up in the air. Got both these guns last season and put 500 plus pvp kills om each.
Got a spare with hammerforged, ricochet round, slideshot, swashbuckler and range masterwork. I prefer swash over opening because swash times 1 allowes you to kill a T9 or below resil guardian in 2 headshots and 1 body. If you get swash times 5 it even deals more damage than ace with memento mori
I have a number of roles with Fluted Barrel and a Handling MW making the stat a 96. If range is normalized on Hand Cannons in a way that makes its low range not as much of a factor, having a 96 Handling Hand Cannon could be nuts.
i miss 150s so much
I thought the thumbnail meant the barrel on spare was getting neutered because of its awful range, meanwhile the other 140s are like gigachad and didnt get neutered.
I have to think the non-updated stats on Spare Rations is a oversight, but even then, the kinetic slot now has the likes of Austringer, Eyasluna and Fatebringer. Spare Rations would need something REALLY standout to hang with those monsters.
I think a lot of the non-updated stats has to come down to the origin trait. It boosts almost all of the stats when you activate it, which you do by picking up ammo. It’s just a different playstyle then a lot of streamers have been using but it’s really helpful in stuff like Control and Iron Banner
Ironically this stat problem is the case for "older" weapons
Like judgments sittings at a base 42 stability and range this with Hand cannon sights makes it feel like garbage even when you're meant to build craft into Judgment's stats
All 140s that use to be 150s need a +5 to +10 buff in range and stability and range finder for sure even when its gets nerfed again
They could have kept the 150 archetype in general if they made it to where the range was absolutely abysmal. The biggest issue was always that 150's had the same TTK at the same ranges as a 140 but it just did it 10 RM faster. They did 150's right in Destiny. 150's in Destiny had similar TTK to 140's but their range was absolutely terrible and the drop off as horrible.
and 150s were hot trash in destiny. 140s were superior in almost everyway. id rather not have 150s if they are just gonna be delete fodder
@@QudoRS 150's had a very similar ttk their range was just kept to extreme close ranges which is where shotguns thrive. In their optimal ranges 150's actually did really well.
this is the only weapon from this season's engrams that i haven't gotten to drop a single one of. still. i've crafted a couple of the taken themed ones, but have never gotten a spare 2.0
I'd say that barrel and mag needs to be ricochet and full bore. This is the only hand cannon I've taken full bore on but honestly the handling can take the hit for a little extra range. Even with that it's still best used very aggressively
Spare rations just feels amazing hopefully it gets a bit range buff
Spare rations is Lighting Mcqueen in Cars 3
I want fluted, handling mw, snapshot and opening shot, for bow swapping. I usually use a sidearm, but it's nice to have a snappy hc on hand.
I play about 10 rumble games a year. I matched with you the other day and was totally stoked. Before I got Bungied to Orbit loading in....grrrr!
Joker's Wild footage in appropriate B&W
Bug out bag might be meta when rangefinder get nerf if you want a good smg
They did that to ALL returning reckoning weapons. All the weapons returned with a much worse perk selection for the most part.
Example:
Sole survivor once got 4th times/ firing line. No longer possible.
Sunset spare rations from ages ago feels better than the current one, waiting for a 5/5 to give the bigggest benefit of the doubt.
Looking for that Nation of Beets review
Im so glad someone finally acknowledges that healing rifts are a thing in pvp. Im so tired of seeing people callout void overshields while they pretend like a healing rift doesnt do the same thing but better.
you didnt mention the origin trait, as long as players drop bricks i feel like the origin trait is goated if youre kill chaining
I don't know how you hit anything with 47 stability on controller. Completely unviable for me. I need 65+ stability to use a Hand Cannon because I'm bad.
Pull the stick down more as recoil climbs higher. Learn the shot rhythm and recoil becomes more manageable. I used to roll near max stability. But after the changes i no longer go for 50+ stability. Depends on the feel of the weapon too, I got 5/5 god roll of most iconic HCs, but never use any because it blocks my sight or the feel is trash
I have snapshot killclip with 61 range spare and I love it tbh
The lack of unique/creative PvP rolls is really what disappointed me the most. I’ll fight through mid stats if it means I can do something cool/unique, like kindled orchid - still the only kill clip + rampage hand cannon.
I was a little surprised you didn’t highlight the Disaster Plan intrinsic a little more. Would’ve been interested to see exactly how much range falloff it adds, because that feels like it could be its saving grace if they buff it a little. Unfortunately it’s almost worthless in elim-style game modes.
I’ve been using my rapid hit + focused fury and RH + KC rolls, each with 54 range
Maybe it's just me but I don't do well with high range rolls. Then again I play closer alot.
The title to this video honestly made me laugh so hard hahaha
I've said it before, and i'll say it again here: withold your judgement until next season people. Because it really feels like quite a few hcs now have been made in preparation for the rangefinder nerf next season, the two big ones being epochal and now spare rations
😢😭😭 My boy my boy look what they did to my boy I don't want his mother to see him like this 😢😫😭😭😭
Is it in the cards for bungie to give spare like +7 range to make it competitive like they did before introducing it? Maybe if it's still underwhelming after the zoom standardization
I’m admittedly not great with hand cannons, but I got a really good roll so I tried it out and got eviscerated. Didn’t even make it a whole game before switching to austringer and immediately got a 10 streak
I'll watch the video, but this is a godlike thumbnail that says everything already hahahaha
I like to think I’m not coping, but slide focused fury makes spare have a permanent damage buff, which makes it the most forgiving 140 in the game. Cammy talked about finite impact or and how slideways focused fury was a mild breaker, and here is a better version of that hand cannon….
A roll I see nobdoy mentioning; Slideshot + Swashbuckler.
You need Slideshot for the range. Swashbuckler is where it becomes interesting.
Throwing Knifes, Celestial Fire etc. Getting a kill with those gives you Radiant on top of Swashbuckler X5 which let’s you 2 tap with this 140 rpm!
Even at x1 you can 2h1b most ppl
@@Szerniel jup! And X5 without Radiant you can 3 body ppl. I really believe Swash is being slept on
This is the problem I’ve seen with a lot of hand cannons lately and it’s lacking in range department except when u kill the stability for extra range. Hand cannons are a harder gun for me to duel with as I am not the best aim with them while a pulse rifle u can map from almost any range and do it with 40 bullets . I think they have nerfed hand cannons to the point it’s only good for mid range or peak shooting. If I duel someone and miss a couple shots it’s usually game over
It’s great follow-up Hc for sniping. Sure, you don’t have the range as others, but all you need to do is stay out of those ranged gunfights. Handling is king (for me)
Got Rapid Hit/KC for pvp and I like it a lot. I’m on console and I prefer stability and recoil control over range. I almost prefer it over my Rose with Rapid Hit/Explosive Payload. I also have Rapid Hit/Kinetic Tremors and it feels great in pve, I need to see if Lucky Pants affects the tremor’s damage.
3:51 seeing you hit 56 to a crit from that close is honestly heartbreaking
He had woven mail
I personally, despite it being just mid, really enjoy spare rations. It doesn’t always has to be the best weapon that is really fun to use. I wish people came back to this attitude. Even in casual PvP people nowadays sweat their balls off with meta weapons equipped. Great vid 👌
I just don’t think we had other weapons that could compete with it at the time and now it falters. But at the end of the day, the best feeling gun is what people will choose and it’s why I use Austringer over Rose because of that
Dire Promise retained all the benefits of a 150 (AA, handling) while still having high range and stability. It’s so much better than SR.
"I can't tell ya' how many t... IT'S EVERY GAME!" Lmao
Indeed.
bungie needs to bring back lightweight for these low stat 140s. im not saying 150s should return (contrary to what the handcannon/shotty/stompees hunters are saying on twitter), but +2 mobility can both help you mid gunfight and let you close the gap easier when fighting against higher range handcannons. I just feel lightweight would be more interesting and easier than buffing every one of the low stat handcannons, like waking vigil, finite impactor, and spare rations (ironically finite impactor was always adaptive, its stats are just ass to begin with)
The problem is weapons like rose and fatebringer is better reward. Also some 140 handcannon's are craftable.
The Austringer i used 4 years ago to compete with Spare Rations, i can now, just craft.
Fluted High Cal Eye of the Storm Opening Shot. with a Masterwork its Matches the stability of spare rations and its got better Handling and aim assist. no kills needed for the ease of use, it just wont miss in a dual.
soooooooooo... meh I'm good. you are right, they kinda forgot to update the gun lol
I don't know why they never changed the stats of the previous 150. Even the exotics have bad range, it was that trade off but now they need to remove that.
And yet somehow, this is the best performing Hand Cannon in the Crucible. Wild.
ironic that the most iconic gambit weapon is merely a Shell of What Was
A bit pointless to revive a lot of these Gambit Prime weapons when what made them unique or top tier pretty much has gotten outclassed by the progression of time and addition of new loot. File it under "don't burn a conventional good-god roll, but don't go nuts trying to chase one or expect the world" Funniest thing and it honestly gives more credit's due to Bungie's loot curation is how something like the world pool sniper Fugue is practically better than Sole Survivor.
Lastly on the subject of old HC that had high aim assist, I'm reminded how the last time we had Swashbuckler+Demo on a HC was Season of Dawn's reboot of the stone cold classic Jack Queen King 3. I genuinely miss that combo as I feel it plays super nice for wombo combo solar hunter with YAS.