What do you think about vertical "wings"? Well not wing, i don't know the word for it. Like the pagani one, just not on the top but on the side. Would have little affect on wheel load if executed properly, but i think it could redefine things. Cornering G load and tire wear also. While "downforce" just adds to tire wear. This moveable rear wing this vid is about is half way there.... Why not go all in, i might never know. Race cars could be steered like a plane with little to no downforce.
@@mateerdei3218 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
@@alunesh12345 may i ask what is your religion? Also, if Gods love is unconditional, then why not send me to heaven anyway? Whats the alternative? Im not messing with you im genuinely curious.
@@metadata4255 Wings don't make the car go faster anyway (Downforce is drag, hence hiding the wing is DRS), this one makes the car go faster around corners though, allegedly xD
The interesting thing about a movable wing like that is the way it adds traction to the inner rear tire. It’s not pushing down more on the inside tire. It’s actually sucking the entire rear end into the corner. A rear wing on a car is an inverted airfoil that pushes down perpendicular to the width if the wing. If you tilt it at a crazy angle then you can I react that force into the turn instead of straight down. This allows for more traction and greater rotation in the corner, creating higher speeds cornering speeds. There reason you don’t really see it in other cars is because of aesthetics and it’s complexity. It is what happens when a small car company is willing to take a risk and try something new.
Any gains you get from lateral aero force aren't as important as downforce. Racing tyres can have a coefficient of friction as high as 1.7. You could either have 100N of lateral force from aero or put that 100N into the ground and have 170N more lateral force. It's a little counterintuitive, but tyres are so important to cars that the benefit of weight transfer is probably much more important than the lateral force gained from tilting the wing.
@@jonahgetz5882 It doesn't quite work like that because we are dealing with angles and the components of downforce involving sines and cosines. Using your given coefficient of friction of 1.7, if I havent fucked up, there's an ideal angle for the wing of around 30.5 degrees where the combined force of the tires and the aerodynamics of the wing is highest.
From an engineering standpoint just like you, the weight shift from back to front in the cross diagonal pattern may not be such a big issue as trying to plant 1200 horsepower to rear wheels. Maybe the car had a massive oversteer problem, and this would help correct part of it so as horsepower gains shifting to help keep weight balanced in corners and good traction you might have to take different approaches.
@Daniel Sebastian Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
Exactly, have the chassis set up for oversteer, so low speed corners are fast. Then use the wing to balance it in high speed situations. It's what the thing is for. I think the main drawback is the added weight. There's no way this isn't massively heavier than a normal wing negating any performance gains from the wing itself. If there even are any.
Zenvo eventually came back on TopGear and finished their lap. The car was about as fast around the TopGear track as your average family hatchback. They had a LOT of work to do back then.
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According to Wikipedia, the Zenvo did its lap while the track was very wet, so its a little misleading to compare it to similar lap times done on a dry track.
I remember driving the Zenvo in Forza Horizon 3 or 4, can't remember which one, but when I saw the wing tilt as I went round corners I was like "whoa wtf"
@@RR-us2kp Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
In the 1970-1980 Porsche had already coupled it kinematically to the suspension, which to this day is more fail-safe than electronic measurements and hydraulics. It was so successful that it was banned in motorsport at the time.
@@joldsaway3489 Just look up all the banned technologies from motorsports. As you'll see, many of those techs could be used in modern cars but for some odd damn reason is not.
it's definitely more grip focused but i could see there being an anti-roll aspect considering the opposite forces would somewhat even out the weight distribution on tight turns.
it's about looking different and getting attention, both for the buyer at a trackday and for Zenvo on "craziest supercar" listicles. The reason nobody else has a wing like this, is because it doesn't work. A functional active aero system is either adjusting the wing angle (up and down, not rolling the wing) or opening/closing flaps through which air can flow and interact with aerodynamic elements like the diffuser/wing/etc.
@@bananasplease666 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
Right but his point what that it has a similar effect as anti-roll and when you use downforce to put more load the LR tire during a left hand turn, you also take some load off of the right front wheel which could induce understeer. However, it could still benefit the car if its able to improve the overall attitude of the car in a corner which will depend heavily on how they tune the active aero.
Disregarding the potential benefits from shifting the weight balance, it sacrifices overall grip. For racing tires, the coefficient of friction is generally above 1, meaning its more efficient for the wing to push the tires into the ground and let the tires handle the cornering than for the wing to try and generate the necessary inwards turning force.
@@Marz2695 No, this is basic racing knowledge. If you don't understand this then you don't understand basic racing or the dynamics of it. This is the simplest breakdown you're going to get. The tyres can handle everything asked of them, the wing changing the weight shifting would just screw everything up and it also likely would not feel good to the driver who cannot predict what will happen.
@@Marz2695 You could probably find more information following some intro physics courses to get an idea of how friction relates to other forces. The more car specific stuff is somewhat covered on youtube channels like Kyle.Engineers and Engineering Explained.
@@Delimon007 This is such a poor attitude to go after someone with. Were you born with the knowledge of vehicle dynamics? Everyone has to start somewhere, so there is no point in jumping down someones throat for literally asking for places where they can learn more.
@@pyreaurum676 thank you for answering. I know its basic knowledge that downforce is better in a race car. and sure the cf for a big slick tyre might be >1 but what about superlight road/race cars or motorcycles with skinny tyres? my thinking is that the lighter the vehicle is and smaller the friction from the tyres, the greater benefit you have from sideforces, as the added downforce is not overloading the tyres
The only part not made in house is the infotainment screen, it’s just a iPad Pro, which is pretty clever if you ask me. I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do that.
because then how will they charge you the price of an iPad pro for the "super ultra infotainment package" that will make the car obsolete and costs them 20$ to make
4:20 NO! Anti-roll bars don't actually change the steady-state load transfer. This wing does. Edit: yes changing the front or rear ARB without changing the other does move steady-state lateral load transfer forward or rearward, but the total amount is the same. This wing (and things like sharkfins, etc) change the total.
The problem with active aero (in racing at least) is that it increases the dirty air effect in the corners, and decreases the slipstream effect on the straights.
Because they're worse than a horizontal wing on anything with reasonable performance tyres on. Angling the wing gives less improvement to cornering than just directing that through some sticky tyres that give you ~120-140kg of grip for every 100kg of downforce. Plus they're heavier, less efficient and can cause stalling issues. Basically it's a one trick pony, it looks fancy, and nothing else.
@@Rippthrough Yes I was just thinking that it it should be more effective to just do it the old way and make more downforce to give grip, and go even faster trough the corners...
The Pagani Huayra has two rear and two front aero surfaces which do something similar: th-cam.com/video/T1zXCAPbJYk/w-d-xo.html Only car that comes to mind though, and I'm surprised it's not more common.
@@metadata4255 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
I had a Zenvo ST1 as my wallpaper back in 2011. A few days ago I finally saw Shmee in his TSR-S. Awesome looking car and to see the Aurora unveiled this week in Monterey really shows their growth. Not a fan of the centripetal wing but it is a clever idea.
I appreciate their effort but this simply looks incredibly goofy. Plain and simple. If I was in a position to buy this I'd rather get something more elegant.
Most people that buy those car do it to look better than other rich people. You're saying that if you had that kind of money you wouldn't choose this one, but the people that are ready to spend this much on a car often do it so that they could say "pff, look at that looser with his fixed wing. It's so old, i wonder how anyone can still drive a fixed wing design" even though they probably can't do laps on a racetrack without actually dying
@@InformatrIIcks you dont know anything about people do you? Or ur just mad that it exists. Its not just snobbery,what ur saying is the mindset of Tesla owners,
The early 917s had moving flaps on their rear wings. They were connected to the rear suspension. The setup was banned because it was not "mounted to the body", and the cars were even less controllable as a result.
I find that hard to believe. All 911s have a ballast mounted to the transaxle to increase grip. With a racecar, you just add more weight where it's needed
@@luislongoria6621 -- Where did you hear that?? There's no ballast in a 911, except for the very very early ones that had a couple of lead weights in the front bumper. Even when 911 racers are forced to add ballast by series rules, they add it in the most central and lowest place possible, generally bolted on top of the passenger side floor.
@@davedarling4316 The official explanation was to control vibration, but its mere presence suggests that more weight could be added without violating FIA homologation rules
In 1968/69 Brabham ran two high wings with this concept. Before the high wings were banned after the 68 Spanish GP. Their system was less dramatic and used cables controlled by the steering, with the wings attached directly to the suspension.
They need to take this to the next level. For instance putting “hot wires/Intake air temp,” type sensors on the wing to measure compression (added heat from AAT < IAT), and how much is flowing over each section of surface. They move the wing in an formula to try and learn and increase airflow/reduce the temp being sensed until you want resistance (braking).
6:04 well the simple answer would be weight. having motorized active wing will weight more due to the mechanism compared to simple carbon fixed wing when it comes to racing weight is a big benefactor as well is weight balance
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
@@alunesh12345 Pretty sure God's not going to turn away good people simply for not believing. That would be a pretty dick move. Also, I imagine they're *much* higher on the entry list than blind evangelicals... Take care!
I contacted Williams (F1 team) back in 2015 discussing an active aero front and rear spoiler for their cars to help improve handling in the corners. My email was passed on to their engineers and i never heard back from them. With strict F1 rules i fully understand a movable spoiler might be against the rules but i have no doubt in my mind this was passed on to several companies as a foot note to development. I did contact Ferrari a few years later with a similar email. It's nice to see people with the money and know-how putting the devices to the test and not slowing on development for safety, speed and handling.
I'm really quite surprised the concept of far more active-airflow-management has not already been developed, considering what Dodge did with their Chargers and Plymouth GTX's over half a century ago. Whether it be applied to racing cars or higher end highway cruisers, this air-management department certainly has a lot of room for further potential development. :)
There was an aircraft engineer who applied a similar design on a relatively slow experimental glider as means of steering it. He called it vector-steering and on paper its looked like a good idea. The plane crashed and he died. Unsurprisingly we still have conventional steering surfaces on aeroplanes. The main problem was rotating the steering surface around the longitudinal axis of the plane - it was just impossible to move it fast enough to achieve directional stability in turbulent air.
Huh ? That's exactly what this video is about... One aileron lowers and the wing go up, and one aileron goes up so the wing goes down... Unless you're talking about a completely different thing were the aircraft tails rotate on itself, in which case is what is the plane called, who's the guy, is there pictures and videos of because that sounds insane and crazy ? Googling vector steering plane just give me png of steering wheels...
This is an advanced modern adaptation of what Porsche did in 1968 with their 908 Langhecks that had airfoils that moved up and down depending on the roll of the car linking the machanism to the rear suspensions at each side of the rear wing, where these airfoils were placed. For example, in a right-handed corner, the left airfoil went down to create lift, and it's right partner went up to generate drag and a little amount of downforce, creating a momentum that was supposed to rotate the car in the direction it was moving to.
I'd argue Pagani did it best, because they also has the individual flaps in the front as well, which would help combat the understeer generated from the rear downforce.
Well hats off to Zenvo for making the turbo charger/super charger hybrid mainstream. It's an engineering feat found on only a few specialist sports cars like the Lancia Delta S4.
Anyone who ever owned a FIAT can tell you Italians CAN'T build engines. Honestly, what was Ferrari thinking when he said this? The world may never know.
The McLaren Senna has front and rear active aero, w/hydraulic shocks, for the street. Then they went to a big fixed splitter and massive active wing, w/coil over shocks, for the track The latter said to be more predictable, with better weight shift.
it looks backwards, but think of it like a weight hanging from the wing in a bar. then it makes sense, that the weight of the wing is moved towards the inner wheel :-)
I dont think that it will lose grip on the front, cuz it is a force not a moment, it wont cause weight transfer, just add more downforce in total, only directionaly
@@saltyitalianguy3243 and as the inside tires get more grip thus creating more friction on the inside of the car it will contribute to more understeer.
Depends on where the wing is on the car in relation to the rear axle. If it's placed behind it will create a moment with the rear axle as the pivot, and it will lift the front of the car slightly. If the wing is directly above or in front of the rear axle it won't have the same effect.
@@tacticalpotato5665 Yes, but the whole point is to prevent the inner wheel sliping, not putting so much force on it that it kicks out the front axle. Im sure the software takes care of it
Since everyone as for gotten the very first active aero was on the 1936 Genesis Cord 810.... As crank up headlights this reduced drag by putting the ginormous round lights inside those beautiful flowing fenders during day time driving... Genesis is also first car company to have front wheel drive the Cord 810 was equipped with front-wheel drive but not the first one for Genesis who were based out of India
When you tilt a wing you are adding a vector pulling the car to the outside of the corner/ increasing side loading of the tires. And tilting a wing with no dihedral has a lower performance than the flap system of Lamborghini or Pagani. It relies on the AoA to create a difference in loading
@@nade5557 in a level downforce wing you have 2 vectors resulting from the interaction with the air: drag (backwards) and downforce (down) If you tilt the wing then the downforce doesn't go straight down but rather perpendicular to the wing. Or in other words, unaligned with the road surface. A byproduct, although small, is a side vector in the opposite direction of the tilt (outwards). The other stuff is rather complicated for me to explain, you would need to learn a bit about airplanes, namely dihedral and angle of attack.
@@almerindaromeira8352 What is that byproduct force caused by? The way I understand it, if you tilt the wing 15 degrees clockwise (looking from the back of the car) then the downforce vector will also be tilted 15 degrees clockwise. Assuming this is a left turn, then the resultant downforce vector would include a side force component towards the inside of the corner. I'm not sure where the force towards the outside comes from. I know about dihedral and angle of attack, I'm just not sure why a tilted wing without dihedral has a lower performance than the flap system the Huayra uses. Thanks for your explanation.
@@nade5557 yes, if you are tilting in the opposite direction of the corner, than you are right. The pagani produces the downforce alsmost directly above the tires, meaning the downforce only needs to go straight down to do its job. In this car, because its tilting you have that side vector and it's just slightly more inefficient. Also the pagani can regulate how much downforce you produce and the ratio between left and right. In this one you only tilt and change those vector's forces
I imagine someone driving such a Zenvo with this wing somewhere in Germany. It's more or less guaranteed you get pulled over and the officers will have a hard time to believe this is factory...
Automotive Designers for million dollar "hypercars": What if the wing tilted to provide more lateral grip? Dodge: Just give the ACR a bigger wing and throw skidplate sized canards for all the lateral and conventional grip one could ever need. Also Dodge: Is substantially faster, sounds better, looks better and costs less than a 1/10th to own and operate as you can also just bring it to your local dodge Man, I just don't get the hype with some of these exotics lmao
Since 1968 Porsche introduced the active rear spoilers in their models 909 Bergspider and 910 Bergspider, being pretty useful in hillclimb races. That year 1968, that system was also used in the new 908 LH for endurance races, continuing on the following year with the same car as on the new 917. However, the results were not very positive in long circuits. FIA also banned the system and from 1970 all moving aerodynamic systems were forbidden.
Im not sure what wheel it send the load to but i was infornwd the wing tilts in the corner to maintain more downforce as the wind is traveling sideways over the wing.
My vote for the maddest wing award (stock, on a road legal car) goes to the RUF CTR2 sport's crazy double decker. Honourable mentions: Ferrari F40, ford escort cosworth, Plymouth superbird, 993gt2.
Brilliant video! I have one complaint though I'm a life long skateboarder, and have spent plenty of time on longboards too. Your point about standing on the back of a longboard and turning, while not a bad representation, is not actually correct in the real world when it comes to (specifically) turning on a longboard. In most cases, longboarders keep their weight to the front, however this is to desensitise steering response and therefore technically improve stability, but its actually more dangerous as the added friction in the front when turning hard can lead to your bodyweight diving forward, adding more grip, which leads to an exponential growth of what I call "getting slapped off the concrete" While steering from the back feels a lot more scary, that's only because it's quicker and people arent used to it. By steering from the back, you can dig your weight in a lot more, and you have a lot more wiggle room to have your weight thrown forward unexpectedly - on top of this you can build significant speed simply by throwing your weight down and to the side - this is what carving and pumping are. To a beginner I do recommend keeping your weight forward, however if you want maximum stability you need to invest the time into getting used to the snappiness of carving from the back. All that being said, if you're just cruising around, chilling and going about the place, you should be standing towards the front as you dont need that snappiness! I'm primarily a skateboarder, and we keep our weight to the back at all times to avoid dying :)
I think pagani did something like this with the huayra, it has folds on the front that come up at speed, and tilt while cornering, it could be completely different but it seems cool.
Top gear often creates car drama to improve the show. I haven’t seen the episode, but I don’t believe the car was at fault for the fire. They did the same thing with the Tesla Model S
This is an interesting concept. If anyone out there has ever driven go karts competitively, they would have noticed that weight distribution is very important when cornering. Allowing weight to load up on the outside rear wheel always got me through corners much faster than if I lent into the corner like a bike (creating more weight on the inside rear tyre) it was much slower, you lost so much grip with the outside tyres- did not translate well into go-karting
K so I have a degree in aerospace engineering and know a thing or two about aero, this system doesn't have a downside because it doesn't actually shift load from corner to corner. What's happening is the force of the wing is being split into 2 components, think of it as an x and y component. The y component is the traditional downforce, but the x component is pushing the car towards the inside line of the corner. So basically you're sacrificing some downforce for some into the corner force, this would keep the rear of the car from stepping out and over steering. However the load on the rear axle is actually lower than in a fixed wing car, so in actuality it loads up the front end because of weight transfer and so on. Hope this made any sense 😅😂.
Easy fix for the issue with the front wheels, active suspension, make the front right soften and the front left stiffen when turning left. Vice versa for turning right. This only works in a rwd car, dunno how you’d do it with a awd one.
As a physicist I believe that should not work if the body is not preventing somehow the lower plate to get full force. Even then, you only introduce some short of minor torque for the same amount of downforce. You can achieve the same by lifting the inner flap more and be much more efficient. I can think a few much more efficient systems, eg brake steering, 4 wheel steering, rear wheel toe.
enzo was referring to aerodynamics in the way it is used to make the car go faster on a straight line, since the concept of downforce wasnt really a thing back then
I think the biggest problem with that wing is that it looks like its programed to move with the steering wheel rather than the xyz g-forces acting on it. having the areo balance moving around that way looks like it would make for a very unpredictable car to drive
The reason this won't stick I would say the price of manufacturing and the difficulty of it! Witch is a shame because these wings are already iconic as hell! I only got to know this company because of this car
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I want this on my car! This Zenvo looks absolutely mental!
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What do you think about vertical "wings"? Well not wing, i don't know the word for it. Like the pagani one, just not on the top but on the side. Would have little affect on wheel load if executed properly, but i think it could redefine things. Cornering G load and tire wear also. While "downforce" just adds to tire wear. This moveable rear wing this vid is about is half way there.... Why not go all in, i might never know. Race cars could be steered like a plane with little to no downforce.
P1 gtr has DRS and a big chassis mounted wing
5:30 to that I say: “Full send it. Active Adjustable everything, boom”. True flyby wire like a true mad scientist should.
@@mateerdei3218 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
@@alunesh12345 may i ask what is your religion? Also, if Gods love is unconditional, then why not send me to heaven anyway? Whats the alternative? Im not messing with you im genuinely curious.
Can't wait in 20 years for the entire car to change shape like a transformer when going around corners
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
Better yet, like Lightning McQueen.
@@shadmansudipto7287 drift around every corner?
Have you seen SRT's Tomahawk concept?
@@DJAizakku My first thought too
The moving rear diffuser and wing actually appeared on the Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO VR4 in the mid 90's and blew my 12 year old mind.
Only 24 sold in the UK
VW Corrado also had a moving wing, same time period
wings that move up and down make sense, this thing doesn't make the car go faster, I suspect they consulted an 11 year old
@@metadata4255 Wings don't make the car go faster anyway (Downforce is drag, hence hiding the wing is DRS), this one makes the car go faster around corners though, allegedly xD
Epic
The interesting thing about a movable wing like that is the way it adds traction to the inner rear tire. It’s not pushing down more on the inside tire. It’s actually sucking the entire rear end into the corner. A rear wing on a car is an inverted airfoil that pushes down perpendicular to the width if the wing. If you tilt it at a crazy angle then you can I react that force into the turn instead of straight down. This allows for more traction and greater rotation in the corner, creating higher speeds cornering speeds. There reason you don’t really see it in other cars is because of aesthetics and it’s complexity. It is what happens when a small car company is willing to take a risk and try something new.
Yeah driven media's takes are ussually pretty basic honestly.
Any gains you get from lateral aero force aren't as important as downforce. Racing tyres can have a coefficient of friction as high as 1.7. You could either have 100N of lateral force from aero or put that 100N into the ground and have 170N more lateral force.
It's a little counterintuitive, but tyres are so important to cars that the benefit of weight transfer is probably much more important than the lateral force gained from tilting the wing.
@@jonahgetz5882 It doesn't quite work like that because we are dealing with angles and the components of downforce involving sines and cosines. Using your given coefficient of friction of 1.7, if I havent fucked up, there's an ideal angle for the wing of around 30.5 degrees where the combined force of the tires and the aerodynamics of the wing is highest.
From an engineering standpoint just like you, the weight shift from back to front in the cross diagonal pattern may not be such a big issue as trying to plant 1200 horsepower to rear wheels. Maybe the car had a massive oversteer problem, and this would help correct part of it so as horsepower gains shifting to help keep weight balanced in corners and good traction you might have to take different approaches.
Oversteer?
@Daniel Sebastian Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
@@alunesh12345 Lay off the juice will ya?
Exactly, have the chassis set up for oversteer, so low speed corners are fast. Then use the wing to balance it in high speed situations. It's what the thing is for. I think the main drawback is the added weight. There's no way this isn't massively heavier than a normal wing negating any performance gains from the wing itself. If there even are any.
Make it awd?
Zenvo eventually came back on TopGear and finished their lap. The car was about as fast around the TopGear track as your average family hatchback. They had a LOT of work to do back then.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
And now?
According to Wikipedia, the Zenvo did its lap while the track was very wet, so its a little misleading to compare it to similar lap times done on a dry track.
@@ufvnjg6 pretty sure jewish, christian and muslim scholars agree you all worship the same god, just in different ways...
@@daveyattenborough4115 a good example of why there is no good reason to believe in any of them.
I remember driving the Zenvo in Forza Horizon 3 or 4, can't remember which one, but when I saw the wing tilt as I went round corners I was like "whoa wtf"
Same lol me and my friend were challeging eachother and he suggested we try the Zenvo
Boy were we surprised 😂
It was 4, I don't think zenvo was in 3
Yup, it's the 4th game. I tried making a race tune with it
I have it in forza horizon 5 now. I was very surprised when i seen it move. Found it very hard to drive as well
@@LegitDucks thing was a weapon in s1 for Goliath in FH4...
Before even watching I'd say reliability seems like an issue, it just seems like another expensive thing that's going to break or get broken
It's a hypercar. It's already expensive. Reliability or practicality of the wing doesn't matter. It makes it special. That's all that matters.
@@RR-us2kp fair point
The development of specialty technologies only makes them cheaper and more practical!
Yea i think Lamborghini have a better take on this onw with their aero vectoring. This looks impractical.
@@RR-us2kp Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
In the 1970-1980 Porsche had already coupled it kinematically to the suspension, which to this day is more fail-safe than electronic measurements and hydraulics. It was so successful that it was banned in motorsport at the time.
Which car? I’m curious to learn more
@@joldsaway3489
Just look up all the banned technologies from motorsports. As you'll see, many of those techs could be used in modern cars but for some odd damn reason is not.
@@joldsaway3489 Porsche 908 LH or the early 917 (1969)
@@Delimon007 brabham bt46 🥺
Cool story bro.
I don't think its about anti-roll, i think it is about generating force towards the inside of the turn, generating in some sense an aerodynamic grip.
it's definitely more grip focused but i could see there being an anti-roll aspect considering the opposite forces would somewhat even out the weight distribution on tight turns.
it's about looking different and getting attention, both for the buyer at a trackday and for Zenvo on "craziest supercar" listicles. The reason nobody else has a wing like this, is because it doesn't work. A functional active aero system is either adjusting the wing angle (up and down, not rolling the wing) or opening/closing flaps through which air can flow and interact with aerodynamic elements like the diffuser/wing/etc.
@@bananasplease666 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
Right but his point what that it has a similar effect as anti-roll and when you use downforce to put more load the LR tire during a left hand turn, you also take some load off of the right front wheel which could induce understeer. However, it could still benefit the car if its able to improve the overall attitude of the car in a corner which will depend heavily on how they tune the active aero.
@@alunesh12345 … Tomorrow is too late then?
This is brilliant, I can definitely see these getting used. Imagine having an active front spoiler to allow more force in the front aswell
Pagani right
I still admire the active Aero on the 1990 Mitsubishi GTO/ 3000 . Not to forget about active suspension and 4wheel steering
4 wheel steering on that car suck ass.
The Pagani huayra bc still has those adjustable flaps on the rear and front. They weren't removed the rear wing was added
4:58 SAI DE FRENTE, GUEDES!
wasn't at all expecting a Portuguese classic, here
That big hit from 2011 never gets old :D
I really hope this works out well for zenzo I personally think the overall design of there cars are gorgeous so I hope they don’t fade away
Disregarding the potential benefits from shifting the weight balance, it sacrifices overall grip. For racing tires, the coefficient of friction is generally above 1, meaning its more efficient for the wing to push the tires into the ground and let the tires handle the cornering than for the wing to try and generate the necessary inwards turning force.
is theres some source that could explain this in depth?
@@Marz2695
No, this is basic racing knowledge. If you don't understand this then you don't understand basic racing or the dynamics of it. This is the simplest breakdown you're going to get.
The tyres can handle everything asked of them, the wing changing the weight shifting would just screw everything up and it also likely would not feel good to the driver who cannot predict what will happen.
@@Marz2695 You could probably find more information following some intro physics courses to get an idea of how friction relates to other forces. The more car specific stuff is somewhat covered on youtube channels like Kyle.Engineers and Engineering Explained.
@@Delimon007 This is such a poor attitude to go after someone with. Were you born with the knowledge of vehicle dynamics? Everyone has to start somewhere, so there is no point in jumping down someones throat for literally asking for places where they can learn more.
@@pyreaurum676 thank you for answering. I know its basic knowledge that downforce is better in a race car. and sure the cf for a big slick tyre might be >1 but what about superlight road/race cars or motorcycles with skinny tyres? my thinking is that the lighter the vehicle is and smaller the friction from the tyres, the greater benefit you have from sideforces, as the added downforce is not overloading the tyres
4:57 classic portuguese "SAI DA FRENTE GUEDES!"
The only part not made in house is the infotainment screen, it’s just a iPad Pro, which is pretty clever if you ask me. I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do that.
because then how will they charge you the price of an iPad pro for the "super ultra infotainment package" that will make the car obsolete and costs them 20$ to make
Because apple products are generally shit
Because when you buy a car you want the whole car in one go. You dont wanna have to buy a bunch of shit separately for it
@@adrianwelgemoed9562 they meant pre-installed on the car
@@lumityandowlhousefan well then it makes sense.
4:20 NO! Anti-roll bars don't actually change the steady-state load transfer. This wing does.
Edit: yes changing the front or rear ARB without changing the other does move steady-state lateral load transfer forward or rearward, but the total amount is the same. This wing (and things like sharkfins, etc) change the total.
420
The problem with active aero (in racing at least) is that it increases the dirty air effect in the corners, and decreases the slipstream effect on the straights.
Cool story bro.
0:45 Folding the mirrors or how I like to call it - DRS.
"Folding in the mirrors on Your fiesta doesn't count"
Whole of London is pissed now 😂
Is that really a thing?
Do they override the controls for the mirror?
@@redslate fiesta boys are desperate
2:25 Looks kinda like a Lexus LFA from the back.
No way the LFA is more boxy and skinny
i like how you gave us an entire history of active aero and told us everything about the zenvo wing except why it won't catch on...
Because they're worse than a horizontal wing on anything with reasonable performance tyres on. Angling the wing gives less improvement to cornering than just directing that through some sticky tyres that give you ~120-140kg of grip for every 100kg of downforce.
Plus they're heavier, less efficient and can cause stalling issues. Basically it's a one trick pony, it looks fancy, and nothing else.
@@Rippthrough makes sense
@@Rippthrough Yes I was just thinking that it it should be more effective to just do it the old way and make more downforce to give grip, and go even faster trough the corners...
I’ve kind of wondered why no cars have a flap on the side to create push towards the inside of the turn.
The Pagani Huayra has two rear and two front aero surfaces which do something similar: th-cam.com/video/T1zXCAPbJYk/w-d-xo.html
Only car that comes to mind though, and I'm surprised it's not more common.
@@metadata4255 Thanks man!
Lamborghini aero vectoring does something similar
@@metadata4255 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
@@alunesh12345 your voice is deep af, unlike your theology HAYOOOO I'll be here all week
Didn't know about Zenvo but love this design.
I had a Zenvo ST1 as my wallpaper back in 2011. A few days ago I finally saw Shmee in his TSR-S. Awesome looking car and to see the Aurora unveiled this week in Monterey really shows their growth. Not a fan of the centripetal wing but it is a clever idea.
I appreciate their effort but this simply looks incredibly goofy. Plain and simple. If I was in a position to buy this I'd rather get something more elegant.
Most people that buy those car do it to look better than other rich people.
You're saying that if you had that kind of money you wouldn't choose this one, but the people that are ready to spend this much on a car often do it so that they could say "pff, look at that looser with his fixed wing. It's so old, i wonder how anyone can still drive a fixed wing design" even though they probably can't do laps on a racetrack without actually dying
@@InformatrIIcks you dont know anything about people do you? Or ur just mad that it exists. Its not just snobbery,what ur saying is the mindset of Tesla owners,
@@InformatrIIcks People buy it because it's different, unique and supports a small rather new company they see potential in, kinda like Koenigsegg.
The early 917s had moving flaps on their rear wings. They were connected to the rear suspension. The setup was banned because it was not "mounted to the body", and the cars were even less controllable as a result.
I find that hard to believe. All 911s have a ballast mounted to the transaxle to increase grip. With a racecar, you just add more weight where it's needed
@@luislongoria6621 -- Where did you hear that?? There's no ballast in a 911, except for the very very early ones that had a couple of lead weights in the front bumper.
Even when 911 racers are forced to add ballast by series rules, they add it in the most central and lowest place possible, generally bolted on top of the passenger side floor.
@@davedarling4316 The official explanation was to control vibration, but its mere presence suggests that more weight could be added without violating FIA homologation rules
Another Callum video!!!!
In 1968/69 Brabham ran two high wings with this concept. Before the high wings were banned after the 68 Spanish GP. Their system was less dramatic and used cables controlled by the steering, with the wings attached directly to the suspension.
That was a NICE Fiesta!
They need to take this to the next level. For instance putting “hot wires/Intake air temp,” type sensors on the wing to measure compression (added heat from AAT < IAT), and how much is flowing over each section of surface. They move the wing in an formula to try and learn and increase airflow/reduce the temp being sensed until you want resistance (braking).
6:04 well the simple answer would be weight. having motorized active wing will weight more due to the mechanism compared to simple carbon fixed wing
when it comes to racing weight is a big benefactor as well is weight balance
Exotic aero coupled with a reliable engine sounds like the perfect combo.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗
@@alunesh12345 Pretty sure God's not going to turn away good people simply for not believing. That would be a pretty dick move.
Also, I imagine they're *much* higher on the entry list than blind evangelicals...
Take care!
@@alunesh12345 if God wanted you to believe wouldn't he have given more signs than just believing the word of other people
Zenvo just use that wing for handling by tilting the wing by up to 20 degrees, it can move downforce from side to side and increase cornering grip
Any time a P1 is mentioned I just go crazy damn I love that car
damn! what a great video! very detailed technicaly for a short youtube video and yet i managed to understand everything. you got urself a sub m8
With the long board fall you showed one of the classic Portuguese memes! "Sai da frente Guedes!" 😂
Would be good to see Mclaren bring out a new and improved version of the P1
That car is discontinued..
I contacted Williams (F1 team) back in 2015 discussing an active aero front and rear spoiler for their cars to help improve handling in the corners.
My email was passed on to their engineers and i never heard back from them. With strict F1 rules i fully understand a movable spoiler might be against the rules but i have no doubt in my mind this was passed on to several companies as a foot note to development. I did contact Ferrari a few years later with a similar email.
It's nice to see people with the money and know-how putting the devices to the test and not slowing on development for safety, speed and handling.
Very high production for a channel with 90k subs, great video subbed
I bought one from Zenvo and mounted it on my 2008 Ford Focus. Night and day difference.
I'm really quite surprised the concept of far more active-airflow-management has not already been developed, considering what Dodge did with their Chargers and Plymouth GTX's over half a century ago. Whether it be applied to racing cars or higher end highway cruisers, this air-management department certainly has a lot of room for further potential development. :)
There was an aircraft engineer who applied a similar design on a relatively slow experimental glider as means of steering it. He called it vector-steering and on paper its looked like a good idea. The plane crashed and he died.
Unsurprisingly we still have conventional steering surfaces on aeroplanes. The main problem was rotating the steering surface around the longitudinal axis of the plane - it was just impossible to move it fast enough to achieve directional stability in turbulent air.
Huh ? That's exactly what this video is about... One aileron lowers and the wing go up, and one aileron goes up so the wing goes down... Unless you're talking about a completely different thing were the aircraft tails rotate on itself, in which case is what is the plane called, who's the guy, is there pictures and videos of because that sounds insane and crazy ?
Googling vector steering plane just give me png of steering wheels...
Making downforce on the whole rear will pitch-up the front anyway so I guess any company putting rear downforce just want more traction
This is an advanced modern adaptation of what Porsche did in 1968 with their 908 Langhecks that had airfoils that moved up and down depending on the roll of the car linking the machanism to the rear suspensions at each side of the rear wing, where these airfoils were placed. For example, in a right-handed corner, the left airfoil went down to create lift, and it's right partner went up to generate drag and a little amount of downforce, creating a momentum that was supposed to rotate the car in the direction it was moving to.
But doesn't the Pagani Huayra act on the same premise ? With its Flaps both front and back ?
I'd argue Pagani did it best, because they also has the individual flaps in the front as well, which would help combat the understeer generated from the rear downforce.
If! In the future cars become faster and safer and perhaps more autonomous; then I can see control surfaces playing a bigger role in stabilization.
Well hats off to Zenvo for making the turbo charger/super charger hybrid mainstream. It's an engineering feat found on only a few specialist sports cars like the Lancia Delta S4.
Anyone who ever owned a FIAT can tell you Italians CAN'T build engines. Honestly, what was Ferrari thinking when he said this? The world may never know.
4:56 "Sai da frente Guedes" oh the nostalgia
Zenvo’s spoiler blew me away when i first saw it 😍
The McLaren Senna has front and rear active aero, w/hydraulic shocks, for the street. Then they went to a big fixed splitter and massive active wing, w/coil over shocks, for the track The latter said to be more predictable, with better weight shift.
Awesome video! Made my day 👏🏻
Looks so funny. Leaning against the corners looks strange to me. The other way around would look much better.
Probably not effective though.
it looks backwards, but think of it like a weight hanging from the wing in a bar. then it makes sense, that the weight of the wing is moved towards the inner wheel :-)
@@MC-Racing
True
I imagine fixing the front downforce with some neat “death race” style knife wings that pop out of the front fender.
Move the snow plow from the front bottom to the rear top? Genius !
That Fiesta was hella clean can't even lie
Good on them for getting some attention
The last statement 👍 Zenvo got completely new stuff inbound 😉
btw, the "more performance oriented versions having more conventional wing for some reason" - the reason is that most motorsports ban active aero
I dont think that it will lose grip on the front, cuz it is a force not a moment, it wont cause weight transfer, just add more downforce in total, only directionaly
could cause understeer nonetheless as the back would be pushed toward the inside of the corner
@@saltyitalianguy3243 and as the inside tires get more grip thus creating more friction on the inside of the car it will contribute to more understeer.
Depends on where the wing is on the car in relation to the rear axle. If it's placed behind it will create a moment with the rear axle as the pivot, and it will lift the front of the car slightly. If the wing is directly above or in front of the rear axle it won't have the same effect.
@@tacticalpotato5665 Yes, but the whole point is to prevent the inner wheel sliping, not putting so much force on it that it kicks out the front axle. Im sure the software takes care of it
@@tacticalpotato5665 Sure, but the lever is soo much shorter on that it is not important
Since everyone as for gotten the very first active aero was on the 1936 Genesis Cord 810.... As crank up headlights this reduced drag by putting the ginormous round lights inside those beautiful flowing fenders during day time driving...
Genesis is also first car company to have front wheel drive the Cord 810 was equipped with front-wheel drive but not the first one for Genesis who were based out of India
When you tilt a wing you are adding a vector pulling the car to the outside of the corner/ increasing side loading of the tires.
And tilting a wing with no dihedral has a lower performance than the flap system of Lamborghini or Pagani. It relies on the AoA to create a difference in loading
Can you please explain this in more detail?
@@nade5557 in a level downforce wing you have 2 vectors resulting from the interaction with the air: drag (backwards) and downforce (down)
If you tilt the wing then the downforce doesn't go straight down but rather perpendicular to the wing. Or in other words, unaligned with the road surface. A byproduct, although small, is a side vector in the opposite direction of the tilt (outwards).
The other stuff is rather complicated for me to explain, you would need to learn a bit about airplanes, namely dihedral and angle of attack.
@@almerindaromeira8352 What is that byproduct force caused by? The way I understand it, if you tilt the wing 15 degrees clockwise (looking from the back of the car) then the downforce vector will also be tilted 15 degrees clockwise. Assuming this is a left turn, then the resultant downforce vector would include a side force component towards the inside of the corner. I'm not sure where the force towards the outside comes from.
I know about dihedral and angle of attack, I'm just not sure why a tilted wing without dihedral has a lower performance than the flap system the Huayra uses.
Thanks for your explanation.
@@nade5557 yes, if you are tilting in the opposite direction of the corner, than you are right.
The pagani produces the downforce alsmost directly above the tires, meaning the downforce only needs to go straight down to do its job. In this car, because its tilting you have that side vector and it's just slightly more inefficient. Also the pagani can regulate how much downforce you produce and the ratio between left and right. In this one you only tilt and change those vector's forces
@@almerindaromeira8352 OK thank you I understand it now
I can't get over how different you look after the shave.
I imagine someone driving such a Zenvo with this wing somewhere in Germany. It's more or less guaranteed you get pulled over and the officers will have a hard time to believe this is factory...
Automotive Designers for million dollar "hypercars": What if the wing tilted to provide more lateral grip?
Dodge: Just give the ACR a bigger wing and throw skidplate sized canards for all the lateral and conventional grip one could ever need.
Also Dodge: Is substantially faster, sounds better, looks better and costs less than a 1/10th to own and operate as you can also just bring it to your local dodge
Man, I just don't get the hype with some of these exotics lmao
Since 1968 Porsche introduced the active rear spoilers in their models 909 Bergspider and 910 Bergspider, being pretty useful in hillclimb races. That year 1968, that system was also used in the new 908 LH for endurance races, continuing on the following year with the same car as on the new 917. However, the results were not very positive in long circuits. FIA also banned the system and from 1970 all moving aerodynamic systems were forbidden.
Idc my favorite active aero ever on any car is the huayra those front and back flaps 😍😍
Im not sure what wheel it send the load to but i was infornwd the wing tilts in the corner to maintain more downforce as the wind is traveling sideways over the wing.
I like this new presenter. Hope you stick around!
*0:00* Why not both?
Well u look great and the Freeway meme was so great 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍
That fiesta though……. Sweeeet!
12 years is a new boy
Great video!
My vote for the maddest wing award (stock, on a road legal car) goes to the RUF CTR2 sport's crazy double decker. Honourable mentions: Ferrari F40, ford escort cosworth, Plymouth superbird, 993gt2.
That’s cool, thought I had seen it all
New host is cool. Love the video
Brilliant video!
I have one complaint though
I'm a life long skateboarder, and have spent plenty of time on longboards too.
Your point about standing on the back of a longboard and turning, while not a bad representation, is not actually correct in the real world when it comes to (specifically) turning on a longboard.
In most cases, longboarders keep their weight to the front, however this is to desensitise steering response and therefore technically improve stability, but its actually more dangerous as the added friction in the front when turning hard can lead to your bodyweight diving forward, adding more grip, which leads to an exponential growth of what I call "getting slapped off the concrete"
While steering from the back feels a lot more scary, that's only because it's quicker and people arent used to it. By steering from the back, you can dig your weight in a lot more, and you have a lot more wiggle room to have your weight thrown forward unexpectedly - on top of this you can build significant speed simply by throwing your weight down and to the side - this is what carving and pumping are.
To a beginner I do recommend keeping your weight forward, however if you want maximum stability you need to invest the time into getting used to the snappiness of carving from the back.
All that being said, if you're just cruising around, chilling and going about the place, you should be standing towards the front as you dont need that snappiness!
I'm primarily a skateboarder, and we keep our weight to the back at all times to avoid dying :)
This looks like it would induce a torque on the whole car opposite of the turn. The wing needs to be centered over the rear axle
I think pagani did something like this with the huayra, it has folds on the front that come up at speed, and tilt while cornering, it could be completely different but it seems cool.
I still can't unsee that the host is basically a UK Trevor Collins from teeth.
I was really really paying attention and then I saw the Williams F1 logo :x
Top gear often creates car drama to improve the show. I haven’t seen the episode, but I don’t believe the car was at fault for the fire. They did the same thing with the Tesla Model S
You haven't seen the episode but you have an opinion
This is an interesting concept. If anyone out there has ever driven go karts competitively, they would have noticed that weight distribution is very important when cornering. Allowing weight to load up on the outside rear wheel always got me through corners much faster than if I lent into the corner like a bike (creating more weight on the inside rear tyre) it was much slower, you lost so much grip with the outside tyres- did not translate well into go-karting
I'm a simple human. i hear a Fiesta ST reference ... I SMASH that like button.
K so I have a degree in aerospace engineering and know a thing or two about aero, this system doesn't have a downside because it doesn't actually shift load from corner to corner. What's happening is the force of the wing is being split into 2 components, think of it as an x and y component. The y component is the traditional downforce, but the x component is pushing the car towards the inside line of the corner. So basically you're sacrificing some downforce for some into the corner force, this would keep the rear of the car from stepping out and over steering. However the load on the rear axle is actually lower than in a fixed wing car, so in actuality it loads up the front end because of weight transfer and so on. Hope this made any sense 😅😂.
Also wanted to add that the other cars you spoke about work in the way you described the zenvo. It's all about force vectors.
Easy fix for the issue with the front wheels, active suspension, make the front right soften and the front left stiffen when turning left. Vice versa for turning right. This only works in a rwd car, dunno how you’d do it with a awd one.
As a physicist I believe that should not work if the body is not preventing somehow the lower plate to get full force. Even then, you only introduce some short of minor torque for the same amount of downforce. You can achieve the same by lifting the inner flap more and be much more efficient. I can think a few much more efficient systems, eg brake steering, 4 wheel steering, rear wheel toe.
enzo was referring to aerodynamics in the way it is used to make the car go faster on a straight line, since the concept of downforce wasnt really a thing back then
0:00 thank you, I thought I was overdosing my cocaine intake.
great video!
Enzo was definitely right with his quote.
I think the biggest problem with that wing is that it looks like its programed to move with the steering wheel rather than the xyz g-forces acting on it. having the areo balance moving around that way looks like it would make for a very unpredictable car to drive
I still can't believe bugatti weighed down the divo with that active blister system
The reason this won't stick I would say the price of manufacturing and the difficulty of it! Witch is a shame because these wings are already iconic as hell! I only got to know this company because of this car
Cool video but you didn't answer the question, or really even attempt to.
4:46
@@brandongao3675 That is a non-argument because it's not inherent to the design but depends on how the wing is set up.
@@Aggnog okay but your original comment implied that they didn't "even attempt to" answer the question.
@@brandongao3675 I mean if the title of the video implies an explanation and the explanation is a 10 second assumption that's not really good enough.