Some of my thoughts: 1. Why are the background characters not only more diverse, but why do they have better color palettes? Tbh Miss Zilla from HH looks like the main character compared to everyone else’s bland color palette. 2. I hate when fans say, “oh it’s Viv show she can do what she wants” every single time her art is criticized. Isn’t the whole point of a TV show to appeal to an audience? 3. If you’re not going to make the characters’ color palettes anything other than red, could you at least make the hotel another color so the characters don’t blend in with the background? Or at least make it a darker red? 4. The animation in the pilot feels more natural. Idk how to explain it but it feels like the characters are more real. They all have different ways of moving. Charlie moves more slowly while Alastor is energetic. That’s missing in the final show. It feels more corporate. I know that probably wasn’t their choice though Edit: Grammar fix
its because most of the background charecters are based on people who work on the show i know they had a few in helluva boss. also for the animation it wasnt really her choice its more than just her working on it now and its cheaper to use puppetting compaired to her energetic and expressive style
i agree that the pilot is so much better design and animation wise. charlie moves very smoothly and almost no character stands still for more than a second. in the released show you can see characters move very roughly with many animation errors and almost no characters moving a lot at all
I don't know why people angry when someone critisized her show?. Even fans of the said media can have critical point of flaws that they don't like in the show and it is completely normal even good for improving your own work from audience's view
Tell me why the gay and straight pairings can have as much sexual tension as they want but the ONE lesbian couple cant have any romantic OR sexual tension at all
@@ohno7153 Yeah, and honestly thats valid theres enough straight couples in most media. but I dont think theres a single canon pairing in either hazbin hotel or helluva boss that I actually like, every couple seems to have a deep rooted problem that makes them not healthy that is either overlooked or sometimes seen as a good thing
@ohno7153 I don't want to get into the gender war, but how TF does Viv's work feel so sexist yet inclusive at the same time? Like, it seems like the boys are ALWAYS the ones getting the attention.
@@FayeLawnKrack3d Remember how Vivzie said that one imp girl in helluva boss didnt need character development because she was 'mentally healthy'? Or how Hazbin Hotel was going to be more centered around the female characters?
I don't know why but the fact that everyone is in a suit just....bugs me so much. So many characters, from so many decades, some demons, some literal concepts from the 7 deadly sins, but sooo many of them are in suits. As an animation student I just can't.
Yeah, like, there are so many REALLY GOOD and beautiful outfits for men in the 50's, 30's, 40's, 70's, or for more powerful demons, etc, yet all of them have the same suit. Like, c'mon, you have characters from many different decades, etnicities and some are THE 7 DEADLY SINS, having variety is funny and that would make the characters more unique
This is actually so true, every single character is a skinny little twink and then when people go at her for having no plus sized or non skinny characters people are like “Well there was this one character that showed up in this episode-“ and the you check and… they were there for like ten minutes tops. (Like Mimzy) Also tell me why color palate and design wise every single character looks like a twelve year old’s edgy gatchalife oc 😭
help lmao so real 😭 yeah with the diverse characters though its really not enough to just have someone whos plus sized or has darker skin for just a few minutes out of a whole show like she can do better
5:15 you're so real for that Both Hazbin and Helluva are praised for diversity yet it really doesn't go any further from LGBT rep.. the main cast of men are all twinks and with women, sexy hourglass shaped, which is really saddening to see since they tend to be the least talked about characters yet their merch sells in an instant when their sexualized
There's like... no such thing as love in these ships 😭 They barely act like a couple and just exist for... some reason. I guess because they're in hell and ofc LGBTQ couples are in hell 🙄 Like way to make these ships fetishey for the audience :/
@@T_E_G It's pretty funny that the healthiest ship in the show is a heterosexual couple (I'm not trying to say that the writers are homophobic or anything like that, it's just something I find funny in a show that's supposed to have such good lgbt rep)
@@garbageenthusiasm4588SO DAM REAL LIKE HOW ARE YALL MAKING GOOD LGBT REP BUT THE "BEST" (not really best but when it comes to all the other couples in the show they might as well be considered the best) COUPLE IS STRAIGHT LIKE THATS NOT GOOD LGBTQ REP THATS TERRIBLE
@@garbageenthusiasm4588 FR preach bro like I get that you want to make it complex and have drama but atleast have us have A REASON to like the couple itself so we can atleast want them to get together but no instead they all toxic and not enjoyable at all
On the DeviantArt thing, Vivziepop has had most of her characters since she was in high school, and quite a few have barely changed since them, which makes their designs a lot more embarrassing since it seems like she’s so stuck in the past that she didn’t even think to try and improve her designs over time 🤦🏽♀️
thats so frustrating urggg. my characters (who i drew in the vid) are ocs i made in middle school and they’ve changed sm because i’ve changed and gotten better at art, writing, and designing so vivid needs to step up 😭
One reason the designs are the same from high school is because she doesn’t want to change their designs too drastically, to the point that they are completely different characters. A lot of people grew up with those characters. I agree though that the color palettes are way too similar.
That’s why Husk looks so out of place and his desígnales no sense, he was an OC gifted to Vivziepop by a friend (or maybe her sister) so she hasn’t changed him since.
@@lampoest Exactly!!! I myself am a middle schooler, yet I'm confident that I could make some decent designs for this show. I mean, come on! Even I have the sense to redesign my Ocs after a year or so!
the sad thing is that she cut the only diverse character she had from the cast (mimzy), she cut the only blue character she had (baxter), and she cut out not her only, but one of the only non human looking creatures (crymini) she has the ability to create a diverse cast (on her timber project there was three main characters, one of which was a chubbier girl named maggie, she's super adorable too) she just like doesnt lol i still love this show though, and i love the artstyle and that is why i watch videos like this, so i dont make the same mistakes when i draw in her art style
I dont want to sound like Im getting over emotional about nothing but I do want to make a few points. Saying Mimsy is the ONLY diverse character is a bit much. Alastor is indigenous, Vaggie is Salvadorien, Velvette and Carmine are Latino (I think) and there are more. Also, Vox is blue, the two fish girls from the circus episode are blue, Mammon is green, Asmodius is blue, Bee is yellow…these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
@@justfaeriethings that’s fine. I guess you can argue Vaggie is missing an eye, Lute is missing an arm and Fizzeroli is missing most of his body but they lost them as accidents for plot reasons so it might not count. Besides, Lute did it to herself.
As a big fan of hazbin hotel, I think you had a lot of good criticisms. I'm also kinda bothered by almost every character being extremely skinny/lanky, it's even worse that there are other body types in the background because it shows that they *can* draw other body types and features, they just choose not to 💀
Fr like, Husk looks like someone who would've looked good as a chubby/fat character. And the only actual chubby character was ofc a side character that got one episode and was an antagonist. I don't recall any other characters that weren't skinny as hell.
@@kaceydiasok so husk was designed by vivzies sister so Viv probably didn’t wanna change him too much maybe his colours a little but maybe the shapes the same?
@@justarandomperson979 the ONLY charecter i know that has a body type that isnt just skinny or hour glass is mizzy and satan thats about it honestly. i guess you could make the argument that their died and skinnier bodies look creapier but then again we have mimzy
The most painful part is that there are unique and diverse characters in Vivzie’s work they are all just relegated to be one offs or background characters :(
"The art is so bad-" Bro.. her old artstyle was genuinely so pretty and bouncy as an old fan of her YT channel. Like it was coloful and so expressive, but then this artsyle... Like what happened?? 😭
looking back at her old stuff really puts into perspective why she became so popular and even some of her shorter stuff (like her segment in Weird Al's Polkamania) haven't managed to recreate it in any way
Dawg why does a pretty large sum of characters in all of Vivzie's creations have daddy issues? like, I know it's her choice but not every other character needs daddy issues. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever owns Alastor's soul is his dad because of how overused the trope is 💀
It's even worse when you discover that Vivziepop doesn't actually have daddy issues at all and has a wonderful relationship with her own dad, which makes the whole "daddy issues" trend so much shittier than you'd expect. And I say this as someone who _used to_ have daddy issues, and it's still affecting me present day. Nothing is more triggering to me than a touchy topic I relate to that isn't done properly in any media.
she doesn't even do that properly, charlie being a clear example of that. she has daddy issues but her father loves her??? it doesn't even make sense, her father wasn't even supposed to be present in her life if she actually had daddy issues. i fucking hate her writing because of these things, she gives her characters trauma just for them to be "likeable" and "relatable" instead of actually tackling the trauma and work on it throughout the show. it boils my blood actually, since i have daddy issues (might treat it in therapy one day)
@@shushiiiiiiiiii True! If her father is such a deadbeat, why would he even help out at the hotel at all? Vivzie presents Lucifer as though he was never there for Charlie, which clearly isn't true. He was literally trying to help her even early on, booking her a schedule with heaven. There wasn't really anything for him to grow off of if the issue he was supposed to have wasn't there in the first place.
@@shushiiiiiiiiiiYeah I thought that was pretty weird. It seems that her main problem with her dad is he’s a shut-in from his own issues but it’s clear there’s a mutual love there and it doesn’t help that her daddy issues are smoothed over pretty much immediately after he shows up. And that’s ignoring the fact her own mother just up and left one day years ago and hasn’t even bothered to call since. Honestly Vivzie comes off as someone who can’t write women to save her life and probably should’ve stuck to an all male cast. They’re either someone’s mom,a ex/current partner who exists solely to help them through their inner turmoil or an adversary of some kind.
The main issue I have with the character designs is that none of them fit their writing , time periods and backstories (which contradicts the entire point of character design , the designs are meant to be like a map of information about character). For example Alastor , if you told me that he’s meant to be a deer inspired, mixed race person from 1920s without showing me the wiki I WOULDN’T BELIEVE YOU , he looks more like a 2000s whitewashed edgy furry , all of the character designs suck except for the background ones
@@Inky_101 yeah and thats the problem with all her characters theyre so clearly something made by a child and she never updated the designs ever to make them actually fit
@@dreamiinotdream730 I think she claimed he wasn't white to avoid being seen as racist? Not too sure about it though, i heard of it on Twitter somewhere
@@dreamiinotdream730 Tbf race/ethnicity is important to a lot of people and hell is still connected to the real world too I think the character designs would benefit from still including some ethnic features in their characters designs especially the characters that were human once, it makes them feel more real yk?
3:25 literally the only two i could recognize were alastor and angel dust, and that's just because there was the slightly different color like the skin or shirt! I could not recognize the other two!!!
Also I get that they’re in hell and they’re supposed to have like “red” colors but they should at least make them be like colorful or like be unique, not have them be drowned in red colors.
@@haunting_project take for example, Spongebob Squarepants. Tell me, while they are in the ocean, do they have just shades of blue? No. Spongebob is yellow, Patrick is Pink, Squidward is grey-green, Sandy is brown, Mr. Krabs is Red, you get where I’m going
I agree with most of this, but I think her reasoning for lack of diverse/unique main characters is because even before the show, her fictional world had a fandom. People are attached to these characters, and they probably wouldnt like any drastic changes
@@NyehNyeh12No but they can put the effort in to make diverse features. And maybe they’re not white or skinnier, maybe drawing these diverse features are basic art to them because it’s familiar to them.
@@NyehNyeh12 Tbh if she’s not really that good at being a artist or representative. and is just gonna make bad boy Gacha grr don’t touch my tail tv shows. she should have just never made the show or even considered it. art takes lots of time but if I can remember she’s quite old. all artist Arnt good artist at the start but we improve. If it’s something you have heart and desire in you determined yourself to improve, it takes time. But she’s used her art skills for the worst. Like that time she drew cp ( child yk..). She’s already put her reputation in ruins, by being problematic. It’s crazy how she even got a show. ( this is extra edited in bit ) but her show plots are well… not making sense. The way she characterize sins , angles , and overlords, Are cringy. there plots are written poorly and the story seems to always plot change. It’s really terrible. And yk it’s bad if the main character is mostly hated by the fandom.
Viv has a hardon for Invader Zim and you can see it in how she approaches character design and dark, edgy humour. Only Invader Zim was good because they had to get creative with language and action due to not being able to swear or show graphic violence. Most of the horror of Invader Zim is only ever implied and that makes it creepy in a cool way.
@@PlanetZoidstar That's the biggest problem of "adult animation". When you have all the freedom to not beat around the bush and say things directly, comedy DIES.
@@maravreloaded I blame it on writers for 'adult animation' thinking they HAVE to overcompensate due to this prevalent attitude in the West that animation is primarily FOR KIDS. Except that "Adult" themes go beyond sex, drugs and violence. You can tell "mature" stories that don't rely on you abusing those elements to excess. But it's just easier to abuse them than work hard to tell an "adult" story.
when you were talking about diversity in the cast, one instance i was reminded of was the fact that alastor was supposed to be a creole person.... you can see how that turned out
@@v1rzen yes, but i've seen people mention that they're disappointed about how white he looks. i agree too, and if vivzie wants to diversify her cast, she should portray that better.
I miss her old style honestly, she used a lot of different colors and actually made her characters have diversity in body shapes, not to mention how expressive it was. I find when the show came out all the characters were simplified down from her old style to a more production friendly style, and tbh helluva boss actually seems to have more character diversity than hazbin
I know a lot of people's response to the "too much red thing" is "well, its that layer of Hell's signiture color", but like, that doesnt mean red has to be the MAIN color for practically every character. Why cant some characters have red as like a minor accent but their color scheme be majority blue or purple or i dont know... i didnt know there was a fit check at the gates of hell..
what's worse is they are also wrong about red being the color of hell.... each ring of hell has a different color associated with them in viv's world its Red for wrath, yellow/orange for gluttony, green is greed, neon blue is envy, blue is for Lust, pinks and purple for sloth, and red again for pride. HOWEVER the actual colors are Red for Wrath, Orange for Gluttony, Yellow/Gold for greed, green for Envy, Light blue for sloth, blue for Lust, and Purple for Pride. then its pride on top and then the rest. s TECHNICALLY the hotel SHOULD be purples and have a purple sky.
It's 'cause her shows are literally Tumblr culture made into cartoons. Think about it! The swearing, the angsty fanfic tropes, the horniness, the fanservice, the glorifying meanness/sassiness if the character is cool... and yes, the twinks in suits!
I can vouch for Vox, Alastor, and Charlie being in suits because they're business owners and Alastor is proper and old-fashioned. I guess I could also excuse Husk for wearing slacks and suspenders cause Alastor owns his soul and that might play into it. But why does ANGEL DUST need a suit and bowtie? His line of work isn't professional in the traditional sense, and his boss doesn't even wear a suit. Zestial is supposed to be really old, so ig that's why he wears a suit. I don't know why Lucifer is in a suit, but maybe it's because he's the ruler of the pride ring and has to look professional or something. I feel like they still could've given him something else to wear. Pentious is a wannabe overlord, which might be why he wears a suit (since his aesthetic is steampunk, they could've given him a vest and a button up instead of a suit. I'm not gonna analyze the HB characters cause there's a lot of characters in that show with suits. I guess suits are in style right now in hell, lol)
Gobb legit have muscular built characters, chubby built characters, skinny built characters and even physically disabled characters (such as the bittergiggle clones)
These shows are supposed to be for adults but the way she's having them made for is teenagers specifically edgy teenagers who learned about adult stuff & Viv doesnt even try to truly make it clear the humor and anything is fitting for not these teens.
@@Anika0308 fr and like there are reddish browns she could have used. especially if he's apparently supposed to be a black man too?? like pls viv use some color
by the thumbnail i was expecting an obnoxious loud voice (like me frfr) but your voice is so angelic not to mention how well it compliments the song in the background!!
They don’t even look like demons! They just look like edgy insect-shaped twinks that have wolf faces or horns sometimes 🤦🏾♀️. And don’t even get me started on SATAN’S design. Everything you said in this video was spot on. These shows (Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss) could be good, but the art kinda sucks.
Hey, his design is amazing the snake and apple on his head, the apple cane, Jeremy Jordan, the sort of ringleader outfit since the duck obsession and he owns a park called Loo Loo World
I've always complained when a company interferes with a creator's artistic freedom, but in this case they should have given vivi less creative control. She only did the series of her dreams when she was12 years, the problem? she was 12 years old, she never thought about polishing anything she did when she had the mentality of a goblin, in fact it even got worse like the retcon of vaggie being an angel.
and every single character has parent issues like is that the only way you know how to write tragic backstories orrrr??? It’s literally in 4 characters, probably more. Crazy.
The thing that frustrates me the most about viv’s color palette is how the lack of diversity also harms the characters. There’s a channel on TH-cam by the name of art at midnight who does analysis videos on movies and tv shows, more specifically about a character’s outfits or color palettes and how they’re essential in their stories/arcs. But when you look at viv’s characters, they don’t have a distinct color, it’s all the same. It doesn’t say much about their personality it’s just reds reds and reds and maybe if we’re lucky, there’s a small smudge of blue. Like is she allergic to the ocean or something?? Does she hate winter?? Like girl you aren’t gonna die if you use blues or purples for your characters.
Having an art style that doesn't click with the person can be a huge turn off for some people. Animation is art, and the whole point is looking at it. If you don't like looking at it then it would make sense why you wouldn't watch it. You also do make some good points about character diversity and color diversity. A huge critique about the shows art style is that the character almost blend in the background. The "it's hell" comment is a lame excuse to not explore different color pallets for the characters. Especially since there are demons in folklore that are not red. Heck I think even purples would look amazing and bring diversity while still fitting the vibe. The point is that color diversity and body diversity really is just bare minimum of mastering your art style. Even shows that are extremely stylized have diversity in the characters not only in body and looks but also colors. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is just not one of them. And even so you know what they say about exceptions, they don't make the rule.
BASED!!!!! One thing about it that irks me about it is how cluttered the designs are. Why does Husk need all of those spots on his wings???? It looks like a NIGHTMARE to animate, and I'm surprised that it hasn't caused the death of a poor animator yet. There are just too many useless details that don't translate well into a cartoon like this, and it makes the whole thing an absolute eyesore.
At least make the wings retractable. It's a fantasy hell anyway. Also, don't get me started on how Angel Dust looks like he's eternally facing 3/4 view. Someone even said Hazbin works better as a webtoon comic due to the amount of details.
for real plus his whole thing is he HATES that he's a cat yet there are wings for no damn reason, its so ughhh i heard it's because viv let her younger sister create a character for the show but like make it a background character or one that shows up in billboards and random easter eggs...
Thank you for making mention about the color palette and body shape!! Just because both shows take place in hell doesn't mean that their main colors need to be red, like look at the background characters. Those suckers aren't just red- they are a hole bunch of colors!! Plus the main cast can sometimes just blend in to well. As for the body shape, there isn't anything against making slim/thin characters (I'm saying this as on of my own characters ended up with the vizipop body- I HAVE A REASON BEHIND IT I SWEAR.) but if all of your characters just end up as a copy & paste body shape wise- It's very bothersome and makes it hard to tell them apart.
I LOVE vivsies artstyle, its so unique, even if edgy. And her old sketch designs are so cool!! I just wish the designs were transported into the DAMN SHOW. VIVISIEPOP MORE LIKE VIVSIESTOP WITH THE DAMN RED.
Your art work is very calming. Also I 100% agree with your takes. Especially the part about different facial features and racial groups I'm also so tired of whenever people redesign the character and make it really good. The fandom acts like they dox Vizipop herself Like the characters are fine but it need some work and this is somebody who has watch every ep (so far) of side show hellva boss. For example why is a bounty hunter who also works at a ranch is a twink? Like make that make sense
are you're talking about striker?? idk that's the only character i know but i give him a twink pass bc he was voiced by norman reedus (THE twink) but either way thank you i'm glad you liked my video!
@@lampoest No problem. And also yeah I was talking about striker. I thought since he was a bounty hunter his design will be more intimidating and strong, since I don't know the person who voice act him that much. I probably seen his voice actor or heard it in a movie though I'm not familiar enough with him though
@@SammyRobinson62232 its mostly a joke i have with my friends im a big norman reedus fan and hes such a twink lol but i do understand what you mean, someone on a ranch should never be a twink
These are so true,also vaggie is supposed to be flat chested ig since she is victim of no tits jokes and niffty takes it seriously but her chest is big as every other female character,she not only cant draw fat or even average bodies,she cant draw flat chest either,the most easy thing 😭
Fair. Viv style is something I love but I get why people don’t like it. Great video man, and really great art. It’s a crime you don’t have many subscribers, so I’m going to change that. Take my subscription.
It’s not even the fact that twink bodies are the issue (which in this case they definitely are) but when making a character design the most important thing when making their appearance/body type is to make sure their personality and character fits it! Striker for example, is an assassin and knows his way around a ranch. He easily over powers multiple trained assassins of the show (especially at once), casually lassoed a big ass pig, and can take multiple stab wounds near the kidney. And overall that with his cowboy/western macho persona taken into account as well.. A MAN LIKE THAT WOULD NOT BE A FUCKING TWINK😭😭 there should be some muscle and robust builds for someone like that not someone who’s organs are stored in his forearms and his ribcage not being existent? Holy shit. Husker too. He should at LEAST have a beer belly and at most having a full on chubby (and probably fluffy in that case) dad bod It really makes me thing that Vivziepop makes character designs for which are the most convenient to her and her team to draw rather than any actual passion towards her characters at all. Which might not be the case but she surely knows how to make an impression.
As much as I love her work (in story writing and a few character designs) I can’t disagree w/ the fact that almost everyone looks the same in design, color coding, anatomy, etc. Like for example you look at Alastor in the scene of his radio tower in ep 2 in his fight with Samsung tv. You can barely make out his skinny twink figure in the already red room. While she does add different anatomy to *some* characters, like Vortex, mammon, or Asmodeus, the rest are skinny 5 foot twinks. That’s it. Of course with background characters it’s a bit harder to make designs but most of the Animators have their own hellaverse OCs that they’ll animate into the background. They’re still bland, the imp ocs, hellhound ocs, and Goetia Ocs are all the same just with different haircuts, clothing, and jawlines. While I only have a few characters for little mini comics I like to work on, I still have color and Anatomy Variety. However I do take Inspo from Vivienne’s artstyle in places like the eyes, hands, hair, and *sometimes* I’ll draw the bodies like she does but that’s it.
When I saw hazbin hotel, I was blinded by al the red and pink colors (yeah yada yada they're in hell IDGAF) Its visually blinding and I had to pause every single to see the background characters.
As much as i love her shows this is so real😞 i mean there is a character with an afro but most of the time her hair is styled in different ways and you only see it in one episode.
the whole stolas x blitzo, the whole angel dust's persona, and any other male x male love trope looks like what a 14 y old fujoshi would write in wattpad, or a stereotypical anti-queer, homophobic protrayal of queer relatonships in media done by right wing propaganda, cuz it honestly disgusts me and i root for them all to collapse. Thats how bad the wrting is. Underdevelopped, completely bland female characters. Viv is obsessed with gay men.
@@rottenkittenparvo yeah just looking at it from an outside perspective it reeks of "im a straight woman making all my characters gay but i only know stereotypes"
i like angel dust as a concept but the way they handled the music video for poision just wasn't...needed to me like angel is a very obvious bad person but were supposed to feel awful because he's a victim now i will say you dont have to be an angel to be a victim but he doesnt apologize and they use him being an SA victim as a throw away excuse...i just feel like we should have had more run time with angel and other important plot points
Bro your designs are so nice fr. I love colour coordination and as much as I enjoy Helluva boss (It's more of a junk food sort of thing yk?) I hate the constant use of red. And most of the main cast designs feel like the character artists were having some serious art block when making them.
I never really saw them as twinks tbh, I just see them as cartoony bodies with different shape language and stuff. (Though the shape language can be a bit samey too) Even when I tried to interpret the characters bodies the only ones I really see as a twink are Moxie and Angeldust mainly because of the way they act more than how they look. Could just be because of the way my brain works though so whatever. That’s really the only part I really have a different opinion on though, it gets a little ridiculous with the constant lgbtq (mainly man x man) ships with almost no casual straight ships
husker is also a heavy drinker, WHERE IS HIS DAMN BEER BELLY BRO?? like no heavy drinking guy has NO beer belly whatsoever. like the man is all BONES, PLEASE. it also pisses me off on how..feminine every guy looks and why is everyone GAY?! like pls for the love of god, it's actually suffocating, i need some straight couples in there please, i have no probably with gay relationships...if it weren't for the fact it would be shoved in my face 24/7. like holy hell, even straight people act gay, like lucifer, he is soooo gay coded, yet he's married to lilith. i can't, and because of that, people are making gay ships WITH lucifer who is MARRIED?? also the constant unnecessary scenes in hazbin hotel makes my brain scramble because i literally do not know what's happening. i don't know what the plot is even supposed to be. it's so messy, i can't stand it at all. the only character i actually enjoy in that show is rosie. she's quite literally the only character who is not so obnoxiously dense (ahem charlie), doesn't have daddy issues that is flat out shoved into our faces, and lives up to be her own character and isn't just some accessory for their partner (AHEM VAGGIE). also her character design is absolutely gorgeous, i love her and she's also not so brightly colored red like charlie and alastor is. idk, this was just my little rant on hazbin hotel (the same goes for helluva boss).
@@ilovecats4499 I think what they mean is there should be more diversity when it comes to the relationships within the show, there isn't a problem with gay people :)
I adore the shows viv has made but SO MUCH can be improved, and you said a lot in the most chill way ever and I love you for that dude, everything about this video is so therapeutic despite it being a rant
good points yet man cant even lead by example i am not even a fan of hazbin but the sht about diversity is such a non issue, nobody is obligated to draw everything and while it is mostly appreciated to have this shit isnt necessary. and my guy be sayin this while having ocs with no distinctive body type or features.
Glad someone else shares the same views on this video. No hate to this guy ofc but a lot of his comments rubbed me the wrong way and felt, I guess picky and comes off as nonsense most of thr time
Ok to be fair, as much as i agree that it's not great when artists don't vary their body types, it's also...not straight up a requirement for artists to vary? Don't get me wrong, it's A LOT BETTER when there's a variation (culturally as well), because of representation for different people, but the whole "deviantart art style" or "too many twinks" argument- it's not your world and we can't force artists to draw anything. Should the palette be a little more varied? Probably yeah, but even there, if someone doesn't like what she creates, instead of trying to stigmatize her whole style and choices, why not just avoid her work? I don't think she's being offensive when she chooses not to make bigger body types for her main cast, hell I'm chunky and I still don't mind the twinks or not seeing more characters like me in there (also she isn't thin either for most standards, so maybe she has my same problem with art - I'm uncomfortable with my body shape - or simply didn't want to change her ogs too much, not all artists like to redesign the same characters 50 times like i do lmao). Obvious statement, but this really all boils down to opinions and preferences, of course, still as an artist with my own reasons to not be super varied (body type wise at least, even if i have 0 problems drawing characters that belong to others that are beautifully chubby), it's not super great to see someone else getting always criticised about the same things about her art style (click on any video talking about hazbin and there's the same 5 points repeated with different wording). If you dont like the show or the artist, ignore it-. I'd understand hate or exposure if she was doing something offensive, but she (for now) isn't.
I would like to politely disagree. I personally have not seen the show, only a few clips from edits and such. But I do know that there is a reason why Vivzipop chose to use a strict color palette and shape language! The red characters that you have been talking about are in h3ll. They have darker colors, and are desaturated besides the bright reds and magentas. However, the other main ppl (the antagonists im pretty sure) are angels, they are in heaven. The angels use more light colors and blues and purples. They also have much more soft and round shape language! The reds and blues are easy to distinguish and can therefore portray clearly and aesthetically, the two different sides. There is a reason the characters are designed that way, the designers know what they are doing, it was not a mistake. Also, the characters are not meant to be distinguished by color or shape. They are distinguished by body language which I find really interesting as a beginner animator myself. I can see why you wouldn’t know that because you haven’t watched it, but the characters can easily be told apart simply by how they move and interact with others. At least that is my opinion from the little I have seen from the show. I haven’t watched it since I know the plot is messy and I also just don’t agree with some of the messages in the film, but I have nothing against the art. Plus, even if you don’t enjoy the art, that doesn’t mean others can’t! Vivzipop has chosen to express their characters in their own unique style! There is nothing wrong with that. And I have a question, why does someone’s artstyle make you hate them? There are artists whose artstyle I dont like, but that isn’t a reason for me to hate the artist themself…. So I don’t really understand that bit, could you elaborate more on that?
So, a few notes. Whether or not you like the style is up to you and that’s fine. I agree Vivziepop could have done a lot more in terms of colour pallet and shape language and surface stuff but (While I am not a superfan) I seem to have watched more of the show than you said you did and I enjoy watching the lore videos. The reason for all the red; they are in hell. It’s the pride ring. Everything is red themed. Other rings have different colours. The fish ring (I forget what sin) is all a turquoise/blue colour and the characters (while still skinny) have different themes and shape language. I think Viv really wanted to stick to the theme and make that clear which limited her choices a lot. It could have been better but whatever. For the ethnicities thing, I think Viv did a decent job. Once again, its not perfect, but she put effort into it. I feel like I have to be careful here because I don’t want to be accidentally racist but characters do have features from their ethnicities. In Hazbin hotel, Vaggie is Salvadorian, has darker skin and a hooked nose. Velvette also has darker skin and at one point is shown “dressed down” and naturally has really curly hair. There are others but I cant mention everything about everyone. It’s harder to talk about the diversity in Hellova boss because most of the characters are not and have never been human so they aren’t tied to human places of origin. There is diversity within types of demon, such as Loona being a hell hound, Stolas being Goetia, whatever Striker is, etc, and they all have different character designs, shape language and themes. Beyond physical design choice, the voice acting is really good and the character’s personalities are interesting. The plots are fine and the songs have good moments and bad. I personally like hazbin hotel better than hellova boss. In the end, your opinion is still up to you. Honestly I’m just playing devil’s advocate (lol) and giving Vivziepop a bit of defence.
As well as this sometimes it’s easier to animate lanky bodies I believe? (That’s my personal opinion) because not everything is too close together- As well as this it’s a good show overall ppl shouldn’t berate someone’s artstyle I mean no one is berating Disney or Pixar when their artstyle is shitty People like to complain. That’s what people do but at the same time they need to stop because sometimes complaining abt something that’s alreDy happened will 1.either stop the show entirely ruining the creators Job and the fandom 2.or it’ll just knock a lot of ppls confidence down for liking it
here's the issue charecters having a speciifc pallet is FINE but it needs to be blananced out when you have primarly red backgrounds with red charecters it can make things seem off. for example the way it was done in the pilot was perfectly fine charlie has a lighter shade of red, her eyes were black wich kinda broke things up, ect but now they just made most of them red even in helluva boss we see SO MANY rings and things and the colors work just fine
Real😭also nifty is Japanese and she was literally yellow in pilot??also none of them have racial features,viv probally thinks being poc is a accessory lol
Sorry if I sound dense, but why is that bad? None of the demons have human skin tones, most are shades of grey. The white coded characters are either literally paper white, or also grey. There’s plenty of legitimate criticism to have towards Vivziepop’s art, but at a certain point I feel like people just make stuff up because they want something new to criticise 🤷♀️
@ it isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s just something to think about. most, if not all, of her POC characters in ALL of her works are either animals or literally aren’t a natural color. again, not necessarily a bad thing, but in the scope of things it makes u wonder
@@SchtuSchtu22 Sure, but isn’t that the case for everything she does? I’m not familiar with much of Vivziepop’s work aside from Hazbin, but again, it seems like she just really likes drawing everyone as having unnatural skin tones or as animals. I’m not even a fan of Hazbin Hotel, but this just feels like such a redundant critique. Nobody in Hazbin has natural skin tones, and she apparently really really likes drawing furries. Angel Dust was white and is now animal, and the snake guy isn’t coded any specific way to my knowledge. You could criticise how she delegates anyone with curly or textured hair to the sideline, but what you are specifically saying here does not make sense, and does not hold up to scrutiny. (Edit: ok so from a quick Google search, her only other notable work is a comic called zoo phobia, and from a glance, almost all characters are animal, of the few that aren’t there is at least one person of colour.)
I agree with the body diversity and using just a little more green and blue but the only thing is that all of these characters are set in hell and if you look more at the angels in hasben hotel they are a lot more but still very chill rant
Another thing that just ruins the show in general is the excessive interaction she has with the 'Fandom', things the show SHOULD tell us, you can only find out from a tweet, and things from the show blurry the line dangerously into fanfiction (Made by ppl NOT working in the show) fanfiction has always had beef with the law ever since it's conception, I'm talking abt ALL the way back into OG Star Trek, authors with copyrighted media (Books, series, movies, etc) DO NOT, MUST NOT, interact with fanfiction, and if they do, NO ONE MUST KNOW, because you're one tweet/comment from creating a Legal problem, Copyright issues and more, another thing is that she let's herself get influenced by Twitter SO FK MUCH it stomps on the little potential the show has, instead of complex, fleshed out characters you get instead short Tiktok edits with glitter on top, she wants the hype that has ppl making full on cinematic edits, AMVs, fan animations inspired by the show but she doesn't want to put on the effort to it. Don't get me started with the whole 'Uwu, Stolas is a precious little gay bean that can't do no wrong' bc I'll be here ALL DAY and we all know it at this point
@@zabirdy181 omg yeah its so interesting seeing how fandom and canon interact if/when that happens. long running shows i fear always end up falling victim to just becoming fan service by the end of their run (the walking dead im looking at you)
I feel like all of her characters have this "same face syndrome" to them, but not at the same time. Like, if you have eyes/an eye, it's going to look very similar in shape to all other eyes in the show with the most diversity being eyelashes. If you have a nose, chances are it's going to be pointy unless it's Charlie, but she's an exception because her mother had a pointy nose and Lucifer didn't have a nose. If you have a mouth, chances are it's going to have pointy teeth. There's some exceptions, and I haven't watched Helluva, but I at least see this in Hazbin so far. Even when it comes to body type diversity, I remember her saying she's frightened of drawing muscular or fat characters. If she doesn't think she's good at it, she could just research how to do it and practice. If she at least TRIED to draw them for yher show, I'm sure most fans will at least see she tried, even if they don't think it looks good, and be happy that she attempted to show more diversity. I'm not good at drawing diverse bodies because I'm mostly self-taught and got stuck into a habit of drawing one body type, but I'm still actively trying to improve and diversify my range. Viv is actively stagnating herself in that because she's "too scared" to try.
@SoonSilverthe person who made the storyboard for poison literally romanticizes SA, and viv supports his r{}pe k{}nk. Her reasoning? “He’s a victim”; he was not, in fact, a victim.’ As someone who was SA’d, I immediately noticed it.
aw thank you!! i made a bunch more refs recently so ill probably make another video soon! someone had actually asked for an oc lore video so that might be coming soon
As a bisexual who has a preference for skinnier guys and femboys, I'd like to say that viz's designs are too skinny and flimsy looking to be attractive to me.
I mean I wouldnt normally be for forcing diversity in a cast of characters, people can do what they want with their art- but for gods sake the show takes place in HELL not in some magority white people state in Europe! There are all kinds of people that died somewhere on Earth in different culture in different time and have different views on life, this would literally be the most logical opportunity to have a very diverse cast of characters and how their life before hell shaped them into who they are!! They dont do that in the show AND ITS SUCH A MISSED OPPORTUNITY and makes 0 sense if you think about it logically (in my opinion at least).
I agree and omg i also wanna add thing,no poc character haves ethnic features,before yall say "but velvette haves afro!" Her hair is not afro its looks like 3a hair,and showed in one scene,also ethnic features outside of hair and skintone exists,also its not only facial features,you also can show characters being poc by how they dress,how they talk etc ,viv is just racist tbh
This man has the most calming lullaby like voice that can put even an insomniac to sleep but still calls this an "absolutely unhinged rant." Like, my guy, how does one sound so angry but so calming at the same time, subscribed :)
I hate how it looks like every character has the same color palette and what makes it worse is that my own character designs tend to have one main color that's associated with them
There are many reason I don't like viv and her shows and it generally makes me so mad how she literally creates a hellscape and can't create hellish creatures. Please make one of them unconventionally "attractive"for the freakin internet's eyes.I'm begging you there will be people who will like it
Hm…well…the art style is a subjective so I have no comments 🤔. For color, the palettes a based on location: Pride: Green Lust: Pink/red Envy: Blue Sloth: Pink Etc. I’ll continue to watch but I do recommend watching not to like it, but to properly construct it. It’s like saying “I hate driving” but you’ve never drove before, y’know?
"Diversity is not obligation !" While I agree, viv promise her fans the rep they wanted, she said she wanted to represent her lgbt+ fans and her SA victims. So, this new strawmen y'all are throwing doesn't excuse the fact she openily made the choice to do so. Instead, she decided to fetishze gay men. So why are y'all coming to a video to say "representation is non-issue" when one of the topics in the video is that, and that's one of the reasons is she wanted to represent queer people?
I was originally a fan that lost interest, and mostly the personality and voices are the easiest way to tell the twink army apart. But Vivzie has an obession with making every character have like an hour glass figure, no matter the gender. And I know she’s bisexual, but it’s like she purposefully using the gay men characters more to tease ships over actual female characters in queer relationships, which is baiting the audience
Good video! I was listening to your thoughts while cleaning my desk. Only thing I would change is the background music. I think it's a bit distracting sometimes. Or it could be just me who got distracted by it :D Otherwise very, very good video! Keep up the good work!
@@mirhilleyanimations thank you! audio mixing isn’t my strong suit i’ve definitely been learning and hopefully getting better, my next video i really want to focus on audio first and foremost!
See I love her artstyle but I am not a fan of her in hazbin hotel using pink, red and white a lot But in helluvaboss they’re are more different colours which make the characters stand out like the deadly sins But overall I love her artstyle it’s just the colours :>
Okay I´ll gotta be honest. lets start with the first point of that video. Color pallets. Yeah you are right that they seem to have all the same Color pallet, but this doesnt necessarily need to be bad. because it kinda makes sense that most characters have red in there, it takes places in Hell afterall, and the color pallet guessing game, doesnt tell how good character design is. a character could have the exact same color pallet like Peter Griffin, and people would still say it is peter griffin bc he`s known more. besides i can debunk your statement that you cant do the same with Hazbin Hotel, because if you know the characters, you could tell them appart by those color pallets, upper left is Alastor, lower left is nifty, lower Right is charlie, okay upper right is a bit tricky, but my guess is Husk. Color pallet is important indeed, but much more when it comes to esthetics and the world the characters are set in. if we are talking about unique characters, sillhouette is much more important, and vivziepop does quite a good job when it come to those. the only thing I 100000% agree on from this video is that there isnt enough variation when it comes to body type. but other than that i think she does a pretty good job. This is really simply just criticism, or much rather my take on this. nice video, still liked.
the issue is having red is fine since their in the red pride ring but having red on red makes it harder to see it was fine when she used black eyes for charlie but chaning everything to red was so...bad in my opinion but the rest i agree
I am a fan of the show, but seeing this has opened my eyes a bit to how similar it all looks in terms of the body shapes and colour pallets mentioned... I have always found the amount of twink body types a bit much, so it would be nice to see more variety with that. I will say though, Helluva Boss specifically explores the other rings in Hell that all have different colours pallets to compliment them. However, since the main cast are residents of Pride (and so is Hazbin Hotel), that's why there's so much red. There definitely is more variety in colours and body shapes as the show progresses, but I think it could still use some work.
2:24, 7:52 The colour pallets is to keep matching with hell it’s intentional so it’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t have read in their design because their demons. Heaven follows the same but with whites and golds. They do some variation with the colour pallets as well. 4:40 ima agree they need more body types :”)
You got em crying in the comments. Interesting how diversity is suddenly a choice, but basing on how anything that doesn't star a glass of milk is the center of outrage. Cute. And the show is filled with twinks, but I love my Lucifer. He's literally the only character out of both shows I like.
Cohesive colours are good but its super easy to slip into the habit of using the same 3 colours 😭 ive slipped into it by accident and now im working hard to get out
idk but i think the reason why the color palette is so similar to the other characters is to make sure the audience knows which ring they are from. Because maybe if the colors were more diverse it would be hard to tell what ring they are from. also rings is like where they live, and all rings are different from each other containing different species of demon.
literally almost all of them look like they were made in one of those paper doll flash games or in picrew with the same body base and like maybe 6 torso and leg variants. the majority are the exact same tall legs, tiny torso, long arms, big hands, shoujo slenderman build. and it wouldn't even bother me as much if they drew EVERYONE like that, but no, there are members of the supporting cast who have thicker legs and more meaty bodies. so why can't she do any of that for the main cast? is it bias? is it unwillingness to actually use body shape language in a meaningful way? what's going on? imo it kind of aligns with how the characters are written, too. in a vacuum. not to be in a story, not to be around people, not to react, not to interact with things. a bunch of cool and edgy ideas slapped on a base, then made to have a bunch of funny one-liners and the occasional angsty backstory drop.
to be clear i used to be a fan of both of these stories. but i was 12. i didn't really care about the bigger picture, i didn't care if anything was going anywhere, i just cared about having a reaction to a thing happening and then moving on
@@dr00g35 i'd say the most straight forward way is through hair, hair carries a lot of power and depending on someone's ethnicity/culture it is worn and styled in many different ways
I’m gonna nicely disagree with you and part two because it could just be by chance that they all seem to be thin and for curly hair velvet has curly hair in the last episode. I also do agree for Hasman hotel they might have some problems with the color. But for hell of a boss first of all they’re him so they all have red skin and they go to different parts of the hell which have different background colors.
Hiii I’m new to your channel and you probably won’t see this comment but I love your art! It’s so yummy and scrumptious and the colors are just ahhhhh!
@ElliotThegoblin thank you so much! i try to read all my comments as my channel is still relatively small and i really appreciate anyone who goes out of their way to leave a nice comment! i’m glad you enjoy it and tysm for supporting!
personally idc about diversity or that the characters all look the same. like not that i dont find it good to have diverse characters (talking abt helluva) but the show is eally good and im all the way up to apology tour (so basically the most recent episode) anywho beside that hazbin has a really good storyline AND its a bittt more color inclusive. anyways great video keep it up
The only reason background characters are so diverse is because they are oc made by animators and fans who were put as easter eggs.
omg i didnt know thats wild 😭
WOA THATS COOL
HELP WHAT
Thats actually so sweet
I had managed to recognize some oc's because I follow them on twitter or ig, the truth is that it is something quite nice from the animators
She's married to the colours pink & red
More like she's "married" to HIM from "The Powerpuff Girls."
Seriously, both of her shows are basically a world she build for her muse to live in.
i mean, both show ARE located in hell, right? so i mean like you would see a lot of red/pink or black (no hate, just pointing out!)
And adding bowties to every attire
Its an eye sore to see red and pink everything , including the backgrounds
@fristi_201 well, they could think hell is not only a red place and that, many interpretations of hell have a variety of colors
Some of my thoughts:
1. Why are the background characters not only more diverse, but why do they have better color palettes? Tbh Miss Zilla from HH looks like the main character compared to everyone else’s bland color palette.
2. I hate when fans say, “oh it’s Viv show she can do what she wants” every single time her art is criticized. Isn’t the whole point of a TV show to appeal to an audience?
3. If you’re not going to make the characters’ color palettes anything other than red, could you at least make the hotel another color so the characters don’t blend in with the background? Or at least make it a darker red?
4. The animation in the pilot feels more natural. Idk how to explain it but it feels like the characters are more real. They all have different ways of moving. Charlie moves more slowly while Alastor is energetic. That’s missing in the final show. It feels more corporate. I know that probably wasn’t their choice though
Edit: Grammar fix
According to someone, the bg characters are animator and fan ocs
its because most of the background charecters are based on people who work on the show i know they had a few in helluva boss. also for the animation it wasnt really her choice its more than just her working on it now and its cheaper to use puppetting compaired to her energetic and expressive style
i agree that the pilot is so much better design and animation wise. charlie moves very smoothly and almost no character stands still for more than a second. in the released show you can see characters move very roughly with many animation errors and almost no characters moving a lot at all
I don't know why people angry when someone critisized her show?. Even fans of the said media can have critical point of flaws that they don't like in the show and it is completely normal even good for improving your own work from audience's view
Me when the other half of the color wheel is gone and I have to make a TV show :(
worst feeling ever smh
They used up all the other colors in their music videos.😂
HELPPP
Welp, good thing most of my OC palettes lean towards the cold colors of the wheel 😃
I lost the other three quarters of the color wheel in the divorce
calmest most relaxing rant ive ever heard
a little soothing guitar goes a long way 🙏
@@lampoest it does man
@@hookb8 glad you liked it, i played it myself!
@@lampoest holy shit u played that?? thats so awesom..keep up the good work :3
@@hookb8 thanks! i've been teaching myself guitar for quite a while now its great fun!
Bro I saw a fanart of striker's scraped desing and OMG.
DUDE WE COULD HAVE HAD DILF STRIKER 😭😭😭😭
Same with crimson in the pre-viz state (They're purely for visualization but still, crimson could've not been a twink 😭)
@@Ich_Bin_Clover bro we sireously need to get rid of the twinks in HB and HH 😭😭😭😭
WAIT WHERE PLS.... LET ME SEE!! HES MY FAVORITE 😭😭
what scrapped design? im trying to find any concept art but most of them look similar to him tbh
PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN FIND THE SCRAPPED STRIKER DESIGN
Tell me why the gay and straight pairings can have as much sexual tension as they want but the ONE lesbian couple cant have any romantic OR sexual tension at all
I can't wrap my mind around the fact that Vivz was able to butcher down "grumpy x sunshine". It should be criminal 💀
viziepop really only likes her male ships. even the straights ones barely get much attention. only male x male.
@@ohno7153 Yeah, and honestly thats valid theres enough straight couples in most media. but I dont think theres a single canon pairing in either hazbin hotel or helluva boss that I actually like, every couple seems to have a deep rooted problem that makes them not healthy that is either overlooked or sometimes seen as a good thing
@ohno7153 I don't want to get into the gender war, but how TF does Viv's work feel so sexist yet inclusive at the same time? Like, it seems like the boys are ALWAYS the ones getting the attention.
@@FayeLawnKrack3d Remember how Vivzie said that one imp girl in helluva boss didnt need character development because she was 'mentally healthy'?
Or how Hazbin Hotel was going to be more centered around the female characters?
I don't know why but the fact that everyone is in a suit just....bugs me so much. So many characters, from so many decades, some demons, some literal concepts from the 7 deadly sins, but sooo many of them are in suits. As an animation student I just can't.
Suits are overrated tbh
Yeah, like, there are so many REALLY GOOD and beautiful outfits for men in the 50's, 30's, 40's, 70's, or for more powerful demons, etc, yet all of them have the same suit. Like, c'mon, you have characters from many different decades, etnicities and some are THE 7 DEADLY SINS, having variety is funny and that would make the characters more unique
@@Archimedes-v2oAgreed
This is actually so true, every single character is a skinny little twink and then when people go at her for having no plus sized or non skinny characters people are like “Well there was this one character that showed up in this episode-“ and the you check and… they were there for like ten minutes tops. (Like Mimzy) Also tell me why color palate and design wise every single character looks like a twelve year old’s edgy gatchalife oc 😭
help lmao so real 😭 yeah with the diverse characters though its really not enough to just have someone whos plus sized or has darker skin for just a few minutes out of a whole show like she can do better
AND EVERYONE HATES MIMZY LOL LIKE BRUH WHY???
@@Isabuggaboo idk who that is like i said i dont watch the show lol
@@lampoestit’s one of the only plus sized characters, and they made her so short ;-;
@@ZXChloe oh yikes
5:15 you're so real for that
Both Hazbin and Helluva are praised for diversity yet it really doesn't go any further from LGBT rep.. the main cast of men are all twinks and with women, sexy hourglass shaped, which is really saddening to see since they tend to be the least talked about characters yet their merch sells in an instant when their sexualized
There's like... no such thing as love in these ships 😭 They barely act like a couple and just exist for... some reason. I guess because they're in hell and ofc LGBTQ couples are in hell 🙄
Like way to make these ships fetishey for the audience :/
@@T_E_G It's pretty funny that the healthiest ship in the show is a heterosexual couple
(I'm not trying to say that the writers are homophobic or anything like that, it's just something I find funny in a show that's supposed to have such good lgbt rep)
@@garbageenthusiasm4588SO DAM REAL LIKE HOW ARE YALL MAKING GOOD LGBT REP BUT THE "BEST" (not really best but when it comes to all the other couples in the show they might as well be considered the best) COUPLE IS STRAIGHT LIKE THATS NOT GOOD LGBTQ REP THATS TERRIBLE
@@Sillybook_faires They were too focused on making the relationships "complex" instead of enjoyable
@@garbageenthusiasm4588 FR preach bro like I get that you want to make it complex and have drama but atleast have us have A REASON to like the couple itself so we can atleast want them to get together but no instead they all toxic and not enjoyable at all
On the DeviantArt thing, Vivziepop has had most of her characters since she was in high school, and quite a few have barely changed since them, which makes their designs a lot more embarrassing since it seems like she’s so stuck in the past that she didn’t even think to try and improve her designs over time 🤦🏽♀️
thats so frustrating urggg. my characters (who i drew in the vid) are ocs i made in middle school and they’ve changed sm because i’ve changed and gotten better at art, writing, and designing so vivid needs to step up 😭
One reason the designs are the same from high school is because she doesn’t want to change their designs too drastically, to the point that they are completely different characters. A lot of people grew up with those characters.
I agree though that the color palettes are way too similar.
That’s why Husk looks so out of place and his desígnales no sense, he was an OC gifted to Vivziepop by a friend (or maybe her sister) so she hasn’t changed him since.
@@lampoest VIVID LMAO
@@lampoest Exactly!!! I myself am a middle schooler, yet I'm confident that I could make some decent designs for this show. I mean, come on! Even I have the sense to redesign my Ocs after a year or so!
the sad thing is that she cut the only diverse character she had from the cast (mimzy), she cut the only blue character she had (baxter), and she cut out not her only, but one of the only non human looking creatures (crymini)
she has the ability to create a diverse cast (on her timber project there was three main characters, one of which was a chubbier girl named maggie, she's super adorable too) she just like doesnt lol
i still love this show though, and i love the artstyle
and that is why i watch videos like this, so i dont make the same mistakes when i draw in her art style
Baxter and Crymini are still in the show they'll just be introduced in the next season. And Mimzy is still in the show?
@@DaVickster1078 Ooh i didn't know that, i can't wait to see them!! And yeah, but Viv still cut her from the main cast lol
I dont want to sound like Im getting over emotional about nothing but I do want to make a few points. Saying Mimsy is the ONLY diverse character is a bit much. Alastor is indigenous, Vaggie is Salvadorien, Velvette and Carmine are Latino (I think) and there are more. Also, Vox is blue, the two fish girls from the circus episode are blue, Mammon is green, Asmodius is blue, Bee is yellow…these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
@@GhostKingDeAngelo oh, i meant bodily diverse, apologies !!!
@@justfaeriethings that’s fine. I guess you can argue Vaggie is missing an eye, Lute is missing an arm and Fizzeroli is missing most of his body but they lost them as accidents for plot reasons so it might not count. Besides, Lute did it to herself.
As a big fan of hazbin hotel, I think you had a lot of good criticisms. I'm also kinda bothered by almost every character being extremely skinny/lanky, it's even worse that there are other body types in the background because it shows that they *can* draw other body types and features, they just choose not to 💀
Fr like, Husk looks like someone who would've looked good as a chubby/fat character. And the only actual chubby character was ofc a side character that got one episode and was an antagonist. I don't recall any other characters that weren't skinny as hell.
Apparently idk if this is confirmed but Vivzie seems to be scared of drawing or defining muscles and is the reason most of the characters are lanky
Vivzie’s characters always appear lanky or skinny even in the zoophobia comics aswell.
@@kaceydiasok so husk was designed by vivzies sister so Viv probably didn’t wanna change him too much maybe his colours a little but maybe the shapes the same?
@@justarandomperson979 the ONLY charecter i know that has a body type that isnt just skinny or hour glass is mizzy and satan thats about it honestly. i guess you could make the argument that their died and skinnier bodies look creapier but then again we have mimzy
That rant with the calm music playing in the background is a vibe lol
@@abacaxigomes4416 i tried to stick to more calming major chords lol
The most painful part is that there are unique and diverse characters in Vivzie’s work they are all just relegated to be one offs or background characters :(
"The art is so bad-"
Bro.. her old artstyle was genuinely so pretty and bouncy as an old fan of her YT channel. Like it was coloful and so expressive, but then this artsyle... Like what happened?? 😭
looking back at her old stuff really puts into perspective why she became so popular
and even some of her shorter stuff (like her segment in Weird Al's Polkamania) haven't managed to recreate it in any way
tbf it was animated by a team and not just her 🙏
Because the studio had to change it.
It's too complex, they made the designs for animating. (In short),
@any.user.allowed. The show lost the life especially with voice acting, Idc if it's complex, it was fun and lively.
Dawg why does a pretty large sum of characters in all of Vivzie's creations have daddy issues? like, I know it's her choice but not every other character needs daddy issues. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever owns Alastor's soul is his dad because of how overused the trope is 💀
I think it’s cuz vivzie has something to unpack in therapy-
It's even worse when you discover that Vivziepop doesn't actually have daddy issues at all and has a wonderful relationship with her own dad, which makes the whole "daddy issues" trend so much shittier than you'd expect.
And I say this as someone who _used to_ have daddy issues, and it's still affecting me present day. Nothing is more triggering to me than a touchy topic I relate to that isn't done properly in any media.
she doesn't even do that properly, charlie being a clear example of that. she has daddy issues but her father loves her??? it doesn't even make sense, her father wasn't even supposed to be present in her life if she actually had daddy issues. i fucking hate her writing because of these things, she gives her characters trauma just for them to be "likeable" and "relatable" instead of actually tackling the trauma and work on it throughout the show. it boils my blood actually, since i have daddy issues (might treat it in therapy one day)
@@shushiiiiiiiiii True! If her father is such a deadbeat, why would he even help out at the hotel at all? Vivzie presents Lucifer as though he was never there for Charlie, which clearly isn't true. He was literally trying to help her even early on, booking her a schedule with heaven. There wasn't really anything for him to grow off of if the issue he was supposed to have wasn't there in the first place.
@@shushiiiiiiiiiiYeah I thought that was pretty weird. It seems that her main problem with her dad is he’s a shut-in from his own issues but it’s clear there’s a mutual love there and it doesn’t help that her daddy issues are smoothed over pretty much immediately after he shows up. And that’s ignoring the fact her own mother just up and left one day years ago and hasn’t even bothered to call since. Honestly Vivzie comes off as someone who can’t write women to save her life and probably should’ve stuck to an all male cast. They’re either someone’s mom,a ex/current partner who exists solely to help them through their inner turmoil or an adversary of some kind.
The main issue I have with the character designs is that none of them fit their writing , time periods and backstories (which contradicts the entire point of character design , the designs are meant to be like a map of information about character). For example Alastor , if you told me that he’s meant to be a deer inspired, mixed race person from 1920s without showing me the wiki I WOULDN’T BELIEVE YOU , he looks more like a 2000s whitewashed edgy furry , all of the character designs suck except for the background ones
@@Inky_101 yeah and thats the problem with all her characters theyre so clearly something made by a child and she never updated the designs ever to make them actually fit
Alastor isn’t a white guy? That’s news to me. Though if it’s not in the show, I don’t go out of my way to find this stuff.
@@dreamiinotdream730 I think she claimed he wasn't white to avoid being seen as racist? Not too sure about it though, i heard of it on Twitter somewhere
@xenanimates3188 Lmao I can believe it. Though when nobody in hell has human skin tones I really didn’t think race would matter?
@@dreamiinotdream730 Tbf race/ethnicity is important to a lot of people and hell is still connected to the real world too I think the character designs would benefit from still including some ethnic features in their characters designs especially the characters that were human once, it makes them feel more real yk?
Vivzie clearly has favorite types (bow tie and suits) but man. Wish she could vary.
3:25 literally the only two i could recognize were alastor and angel dust, and that's just because there was the slightly different color like the skin or shirt! I could not recognize the other two!!!
thats wild omg crazy to see it actually work lol
I'm guessing the other two are Charlie and Vaggie.
I think its nifty and charlie(i might watch this show too much)
I recognized all of them…
Niffty Charlie angel and alastor
I don't want to hear anyone say " because they're demons" have a look at smt then
Also I get that they’re in hell and they’re supposed to have like “red” colors but they should at least make them be like colorful or like be unique, not have them be drowned in red colors.
@@haunting_project take for example, Spongebob Squarepants. Tell me, while they are in the ocean, do they have just shades of blue? No. Spongebob is yellow, Patrick is Pink, Squidward is grey-green, Sandy is brown, Mr. Krabs is Red, you get where I’m going
This small channel is so good, these rants are actuallt so calming to listen too while i paint or animate, thank you for blessing my ears!!
thanks! glad to calm folks 🙏
I agree with most of this, but I think her reasoning for lack of diverse/unique main characters is because even before the show, her fictional world had a fandom. People are attached to these characters, and they probably wouldnt like any drastic changes
she could have just made them diverse originally… back when i was like 12 making my ocs i made them diverse just bc its good practice to do
@@lampoestright, but most people at 12 aren’t very good artists or at least don’t diversify their characters, so I really get why.
But couldn’t she also have just added more people to the cast?
@@NyehNyeh12No but they can put the effort in to make diverse features. And maybe they’re not white or skinnier, maybe drawing these diverse features are basic art to them because it’s familiar to them.
@@NyehNyeh12 Tbh if she’s not really that good at being a artist or representative. and is just gonna make bad boy Gacha grr don’t touch my tail tv shows. she should have just never made the show or even considered it. art takes lots of time but if I can remember she’s quite old. all artist Arnt good artist at the start but we improve. If it’s something you have heart and desire in you determined yourself to improve, it takes time. But she’s used her art skills for the worst. Like that time she drew cp ( child yk..). She’s already put her reputation in ruins, by being problematic. It’s crazy how she even got a show. ( this is extra edited in bit ) but her show plots are well… not making sense. The way she characterize sins , angles , and overlords, Are cringy. there plots are written poorly and the story seems to always plot change. It’s really terrible. And yk it’s bad if the main character is mostly hated by the fandom.
Viv has the taste of a Tumblr 15 year-old
In comedy and character design.
Viv has a hardon for Invader Zim and you can see it in how she approaches character design and dark, edgy humour.
Only Invader Zim was good because they had to get creative with language and action due to not being able to swear or show graphic violence.
Most of the horror of Invader Zim is only ever implied and that makes it creepy in a cool way.
@@PlanetZoidstar it's one of the reasons why I like Gumball so much.
@@maravreloaded Yeah, it takes talent and wit to write suggestive jokes and situations into kids' shows without making it too on the nose.
@@PlanetZoidstar That's the biggest problem of "adult animation".
When you have all the freedom to not beat around the bush and say things directly, comedy DIES.
@@maravreloaded I blame it on writers for 'adult animation' thinking they HAVE to overcompensate due to this prevalent attitude in the West that animation is primarily FOR KIDS.
Except that "Adult" themes go beyond sex, drugs and violence. You can tell "mature" stories that don't rely on you abusing those elements to excess.
But it's just easier to abuse them than work hard to tell an "adult" story.
THE MOST CRAZY THING IS SHE WENT TO A ART SCHOOL O.o
Even worse
SHE GRADUATED
What…I..no your lying she is not an art graduate were her teachers on literal crack..????
when you were talking about diversity in the cast, one instance i was reminded of was the fact that alastor was supposed to be a creole person.... you can see how that turned out
he's still canonically mixed though..
@@v1rzen yes, but i've seen people mention that they're disappointed about how white he looks. i agree too, and if vivzie wants to diversify her cast, she should portray that better.
in reality it wasn't in the plans for him to be Creole, she just _changed_ his ethnicity because of the controversies regarding Voodoo
there is no way he’s meant to be creole 😭
@@intoxicatedfather9307 he was originally i think 😭
I hate all of the characters with daddy issues like omg
Like all characters in this show?
@@СветланаОбрывкова-б4д like 98% of them yeah
@@СветланаОбрывкова-б4д I really like Vivziepops work (Helluva Boss & Hazbin Hotel), but in Helluva boss, 4/5 of the main cast have daddy issues
I like the series but literally name one (1) character who doesn't have any sort of relationship issue
@@spacecowboy5486 Millie maybe?
I miss her old style honestly, she used a lot of different colors and actually made her characters have diversity in body shapes, not to mention how expressive it was. I find when the show came out all the characters were simplified down from her old style to a more production friendly style, and tbh helluva boss actually seems to have more character diversity than hazbin
finally see someone talk abt the lack of different body shapes in vivziepops art 🤩
that's the main thing she's flamed for lmao
@@sillyfluffysheep well i mean......... yeah
tbh i just wanted to contribute, but i didn't know what to say without sounding like a little nerd 😭
@@SUNNY_SID3_UP OH THAT'S FAIR LMAO
I know a lot of people's response to the "too much red thing" is "well, its that layer of Hell's signiture color", but like, that doesnt mean red has to be the MAIN color for practically every character. Why cant some characters have red as like a minor accent but their color scheme be majority blue or purple or i dont know... i didnt know there was a fit check at the gates of hell..
what's worse is they are also wrong about red being the color of hell.... each ring of hell has a different color associated with them in viv's world its Red for wrath, yellow/orange for gluttony, green is greed, neon blue is envy, blue is for Lust, pinks and purple for sloth, and red again for pride. HOWEVER the actual colors are Red for Wrath, Orange for Gluttony, Yellow/Gold for greed, green for Envy, Light blue for sloth, blue for Lust, and Purple for Pride. then its pride on top and then the rest. s TECHNICALLY the hotel SHOULD be purples and have a purple sky.
My biggest gripe with the artsyle is the 8 twink in suit designs we have. Like why are so many of them Twinks in suits lol.
It's 'cause her shows are literally Tumblr culture made into cartoons. Think about it! The swearing, the angsty fanfic tropes, the horniness, the fanservice, the glorifying meanness/sassiness if the character is cool... and yes, the twinks in suits!
I can vouch for Vox, Alastor, and Charlie being in suits because they're business owners and Alastor is proper and old-fashioned. I guess I could also excuse Husk for wearing slacks and suspenders cause Alastor owns his soul and that might play into it. But why does ANGEL DUST need a suit and bowtie? His line of work isn't professional in the traditional sense, and his boss doesn't even wear a suit. Zestial is supposed to be really old, so ig that's why he wears a suit. I don't know why Lucifer is in a suit, but maybe it's because he's the ruler of the pride ring and has to look professional or something. I feel like they still could've given him something else to wear. Pentious is a wannabe overlord, which might be why he wears a suit (since his aesthetic is steampunk, they could've given him a vest and a button up instead of a suit.
I'm not gonna analyze the HB characters cause there's a lot of characters in that show with suits. I guess suits are in style right now in hell, lol)
Unpopular opinion: garten of banban has a more diverse cast then hazbin hotel or helluva boss tbh
bro the og star trek show from the 60s has better rep than hazbin 💀
Literally any Kirby game has a more diverse cast than Hazbin hotel.
(And 90% of the characters are literal SPHERES)
Gobb legit have muscular built characters, chubby built characters, skinny built characters and even physically disabled characters (such as the bittergiggle clones)
@@lampoest I love that show 😭
@@Aman1ta_Muscar1a its so good bro
These shows are supposed to be for adults but the way she's having them made for is teenagers specifically edgy teenagers who learned about adult stuff & Viv doesnt even try to truly make it clear the humor and anything is fitting for not these teens.
i swear i watched this video in a dream and idk how to explain it😭😭
the mindcasting streaming os working ig
i didn't even know that alastor is supposed to be a deer because he's fucking red! his color should've been brown
@@Anika0308 fr and like there are reddish browns she could have used. especially if he's apparently supposed to be a black man too?? like pls viv use some color
Also hes a cannibal. It would've been so much better if they used a dark bloody red instead of that ugly bright color
Sorry if this is unrelated, but the thumbnail is so freaking hilarious for no reason.😂❤
glad people like it lmao 😭
by the thumbnail i was expecting an obnoxious loud voice (like me frfr) but your voice is so angelic not to mention how well it compliments the song in the background!!
@@nia_luvv thank you! i rlly like country music lol so i played a little something simple for the background music!
You can REALLY tell all the designs (mainly in hazbin) she made were made in highschool, it brings them and the shows their in down by a lot
They don’t even look like demons! They just look like edgy insect-shaped twinks that have wolf faces or horns sometimes 🤦🏾♀️. And don’t even get me started on SATAN’S design. Everything you said in this video was spot on. These shows (Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss) could be good, but the art kinda sucks.
U mean Lucifer?? Cuz Satan has not made an official appearance on the show
Hey, his design is amazing the snake and apple on his head, the apple cane, Jeremy Jordan, the sort of ringleader outfit since the duck obsession and he owns a park called Loo Loo World
@@YandelColon69Yeah but why two apples though?(One in the hat, other on cane)
@@bigjok3929 maybe that’s his signature or his logo
@@YandelColon69 I mean why they couldn't put one apple as reference to fruit of knowledge?
I've always complained when a company interferes with a creator's artistic freedom, but in this case they should have given vivi less creative control. She only did the series of her dreams when she was12 years, the problem? she was 12 years old, she never thought about polishing anything she did when she had the mentality of a goblin, in fact it even got worse like the retcon of vaggie being an angel.
vaggie, a angel who got wounded by exorcist weapons, doesnt know that said weapons can harm angels. 10/10 plot!
and every single character has parent issues like is that the only way you know how to write tragic backstories orrrr??? It’s literally in 4 characters, probably more. Crazy.
The thing that frustrates me the most about viv’s color palette is how the lack of diversity also harms the characters.
There’s a channel on TH-cam by the name of art at midnight who does analysis videos on movies and tv shows, more specifically about a character’s outfits or color palettes and how they’re essential in their stories/arcs.
But when you look at viv’s characters, they don’t have a distinct color, it’s all the same. It doesn’t say much about their personality it’s just reds reds and reds and maybe if we’re lucky, there’s a small smudge of blue. Like is she allergic to the ocean or something?? Does she hate winter?? Like girl you aren’t gonna die if you use blues or purples for your characters.
Having an art style that doesn't click with the person can be a huge turn off for some people. Animation is art, and the whole point is looking at it. If you don't like looking at it then it would make sense why you wouldn't watch it. You also do make some good points about character diversity and color diversity. A huge critique about the shows art style is that the character almost blend in the background. The "it's hell" comment is a lame excuse to not explore different color pallets for the characters. Especially since there are demons in folklore that are not red. Heck I think even purples would look amazing and bring diversity while still fitting the vibe. The point is that color diversity and body diversity really is just bare minimum of mastering your art style. Even shows that are extremely stylized have diversity in the characters not only in body and looks but also colors. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is just not one of them. And even so you know what they say about exceptions, they don't make the rule.
BASED!!!!!
One thing about it that irks me about it is how cluttered the designs are. Why does Husk need all of those spots on his wings???? It looks like a NIGHTMARE to animate, and I'm surprised that it hasn't caused the death of a poor animator yet. There are just too many useless details that don't translate well into a cartoon like this, and it makes the whole thing an absolute eyesore.
real lmao my friend i was talking to while brainstorming this idea also mentioned how awful it looks to animate lol
What's sad is that Husk's design used to be even worse in the pilot. He had full on card suits all across his wings.. 😭
At least make the wings retractable. It's a fantasy hell anyway.
Also, don't get me started on how Angel Dust looks like he's eternally facing 3/4 view.
Someone even said Hazbin works better as a webtoon comic due to the amount of details.
for real plus his whole thing is he HATES that he's a cat yet there are wings for no damn reason, its so ughhh i heard it's because viv let her younger sister create a character for the show but like make it a background character or one that shows up in billboards and random easter eggs...
Thank you for making mention about the color palette and body shape!!
Just because both shows take place in hell doesn't mean that their main colors need to be red, like look at the background characters. Those suckers aren't just red- they are a hole bunch of colors!! Plus the main cast can sometimes just blend in to well.
As for the body shape, there isn't anything against making slim/thin characters (I'm saying this as on of my own characters ended up with the vizipop body- I HAVE A REASON BEHIND IT I SWEAR.) but if all of your characters just end up as a copy & paste body shape wise- It's very bothersome and makes it hard to tell them apart.
I LOVE vivsies artstyle, its so unique, even if edgy. And her old sketch designs are so cool!! I just wish the designs were transported into the DAMN SHOW. VIVISIEPOP MORE LIKE VIVSIESTOP WITH THE DAMN RED.
THIS IS WHY TIMBER WAS HER BEST CONCEPT BC IT WAS COLOURFUL, IT HAD OWLPEOPLE AND DINOSAURS, AND IT WAS FAMILY FRIENDLY
oh my god this is a great take. also i love ur art and characters
thank you!!
I totally agree with you. Also I love your OCs and their stories! I want to know more about them.
i'm thinking of dropping a lore vid lol
Its the fact in vivzies old art, it was way more expressive and loose, (like that time she drew Rodger from AD looked actually so good)
Your art work is very calming.
Also I 100% agree with your takes. Especially the part about different facial features and racial groups
I'm also so tired of whenever people redesign the character and make it really good. The fandom acts like they dox Vizipop herself
Like the characters are fine but it need some work and this is somebody who has watch every ep (so far) of side show hellva boss.
For example why is a bounty hunter who also works at a ranch is a twink? Like make that make sense
are you're talking about striker?? idk that's the only character i know but i give him a twink pass bc he was voiced by norman reedus (THE twink) but either way thank you i'm glad you liked my video!
@@lampoest
No problem. And also yeah I was talking about striker. I thought since he was a bounty hunter his design will be more intimidating and strong, since I don't know the person who voice act him that much. I probably seen his voice actor or heard it in a movie though I'm not familiar enough with him though
@@SammyRobinson62232 its mostly a joke i have with my friends im a big norman reedus fan and hes such a twink lol but i do understand what you mean, someone on a ranch should never be a twink
These are so true,also vaggie is supposed to be flat chested ig since she is victim of no tits jokes and niffty takes it seriously but her chest is big as every other female character,she not only cant draw fat or even average bodies,she cant draw flat chest either,the most easy thing 😭
Fair. Viv style is something I love but I get why people don’t like it. Great video man, and really great art. It’s a crime you don’t have many subscribers, so I’m going to change that. Take my subscription.
thank you i really appreciate it! hopefully i’ll have a new video rolling out soon
It’s not even the fact that twink bodies are the issue (which in this case they definitely are) but when making a character design the most important thing when making their appearance/body type is to make sure their personality and character fits it!
Striker for example, is an assassin and knows his way around a ranch. He easily over powers multiple trained assassins of the show (especially at once), casually lassoed a big ass pig, and can take multiple stab wounds near the kidney. And overall that with his cowboy/western macho persona taken into account as well..
A MAN LIKE THAT WOULD NOT BE A FUCKING TWINK😭😭
there should be some muscle and robust builds for someone like that not someone who’s organs are stored in his forearms and his ribcage not being existent? Holy shit.
Husker too. He should at LEAST have a beer belly and at most having a full on chubby (and probably fluffy in that case) dad bod
It really makes me thing that Vivziepop makes character designs for which are the most convenient to her and her team to draw rather than any actual passion towards her characters at all. Which might not be the case but she surely knows how to make an impression.
As much as I love her work (in story writing and a few character designs) I can’t disagree w/ the fact that almost everyone looks the same in design, color coding, anatomy, etc. Like for example you look at Alastor in the scene of his radio tower in ep 2 in his fight with Samsung tv. You can barely make out his skinny twink figure in the already red room. While she does add different anatomy to *some* characters, like Vortex, mammon, or Asmodeus, the rest are skinny 5 foot twinks. That’s it.
Of course with background characters it’s a bit harder to make designs but most of the Animators have their own hellaverse OCs that they’ll animate into the background. They’re still bland, the imp ocs, hellhound ocs, and Goetia Ocs are all the same just with different haircuts, clothing, and jawlines.
While I only have a few characters for little mini comics I like to work on, I still have color and Anatomy Variety. However I do take Inspo from Vivienne’s artstyle in places like the eyes, hands, hair, and *sometimes* I’ll draw the bodies like she does but that’s it.
When I saw hazbin hotel, I was blinded by al the red and pink colors (yeah yada yada they're in hell IDGAF) Its visually blinding and I had to pause every single to see the background characters.
As much as i love her shows this is so real😞 i mean there is a character with an afro but most of the time her hair is styled in different ways and you only see it in one episode.
bruh always having a person with super curly hair constantly changing their hair like it's nothing is crazy 😭
With her it actually makes sense though since she’s the demon of social media and fashion
the whole stolas x blitzo, the whole angel dust's persona, and any other male x male love trope looks like what a 14 y old fujoshi would write in wattpad, or a stereotypical anti-queer, homophobic protrayal of queer relatonships in media done by right wing propaganda, cuz it honestly disgusts me and i root for them all to collapse. Thats how bad the wrting is. Underdevelopped, completely bland female characters. Viv is obsessed with gay men.
@@rottenkittenparvo yeah just looking at it from an outside perspective it reeks of "im a straight woman making all my characters gay but i only know stereotypes"
@@lampoest i actually think viv is bisexual but yk doesnt erase it
i like angel dust as a concept but the way they handled the music video for poision just wasn't...needed to me like angel is a very obvious bad person but were supposed to feel awful because he's a victim now i will say you dont have to be an angel to be a victim but he doesnt apologize and they use him being an SA victim as a throw away excuse...i just feel like we should have had more run time with angel and other important plot points
Bro your designs are so nice fr. I love colour coordination and as much as I enjoy Helluva boss (It's more of a junk food sort of thing yk?) I hate the constant use of red. And most of the main cast designs feel like the character artists were having some serious art block when making them.
I never really saw them as twinks tbh, I just see them as cartoony bodies with different shape language and stuff. (Though the shape language can be a bit samey too) Even when I tried to interpret the characters bodies the only ones I really see as a twink are Moxie and Angeldust mainly because of the way they act more than how they look. Could just be because of the way my brain works though so whatever.
That’s really the only part I really have a different opinion on though, it gets a little ridiculous with the constant lgbtq (mainly man x man) ships with almost no casual straight ships
husker is also a heavy drinker, WHERE IS HIS DAMN BEER BELLY BRO?? like no heavy drinking guy has NO beer belly whatsoever. like the man is all BONES, PLEASE. it also pisses me off on how..feminine every guy looks and why is everyone GAY?! like pls for the love of god, it's actually suffocating, i need some straight couples in there please, i have no probably with gay relationships...if it weren't for the fact it would be shoved in my face 24/7. like holy hell, even straight people act gay, like lucifer, he is soooo gay coded, yet he's married to lilith. i can't, and because of that, people are making gay ships WITH lucifer who is MARRIED?? also the constant unnecessary scenes in hazbin hotel makes my brain scramble because i literally do not know what's happening. i don't know what the plot is even supposed to be. it's so messy, i can't stand it at all. the only character i actually enjoy in that show is rosie. she's quite literally the only character who is not so obnoxiously dense (ahem charlie), doesn't have daddy issues that is flat out shoved into our faces, and lives up to be her own character and isn't just some accessory for their partner (AHEM VAGGIE). also her character design is absolutely gorgeous, i love her and she's also not so brightly colored red like charlie and alastor is. idk, this was just my little rant on hazbin hotel (the same goes for helluva boss).
Damn, I have never seen someone so butthurt over simply having gay characters. I don't think you would care if the cast was only straight, would you?
@@ilovecats4499 I think what they mean is there should be more diversity when it comes to the relationships within the show, there isn't a problem with gay people :)
@@_KiraDoge_ Then why are they so offended when à straight guy act "gay". Lucifer is not gay and doesn't act like it.
@@_KiraDoge_ And I know what they meant to say, it's just weird to be mad at the cast being queer.
I personally HATE the Lucifer and Alastor fanart. I don't give a shit about the coveted Ace, stop putting him with Lucifer.
I adore the shows viv has made but SO MUCH can be improved, and you said a lot in the most chill way ever and I love you for that dude, everything about this video is so therapeutic despite it being a rant
good points yet man cant even lead by example
i am not even a fan of hazbin but the sht about diversity is such a non issue, nobody is obligated to draw everything and while it is mostly appreciated to have this shit isnt necessary. and my guy be sayin this while having ocs with no distinctive body type or features.
Glad someone else shares the same views on this video. No hate to this guy ofc but a lot of his comments rubbed me the wrong way and felt, I guess picky and comes off as nonsense most of thr time
Thank God, a logical person.
Ppl can draw what they want, they are not obligated to give representation to anyone.
i mean nobody is saying she HAS to it would just help also if the show is trying to be diverse...maybe listen to people?
Ok to be fair, as much as i agree that it's not great when artists don't vary their body types, it's also...not straight up a requirement for artists to vary?
Don't get me wrong, it's A LOT BETTER when there's a variation (culturally as well), because of representation for different people, but the whole "deviantart art style" or "too many twinks" argument- it's not your world and we can't force artists to draw anything.
Should the palette be a little more varied? Probably yeah, but even there, if someone doesn't like what she creates, instead of trying to stigmatize her whole style and choices, why not just avoid her work?
I don't think she's being offensive when she chooses not to make bigger body types for her main cast, hell I'm chunky and I still don't mind the twinks or not seeing more characters like me in there (also she isn't thin either for most standards, so maybe she has my same problem with art - I'm uncomfortable with my body shape - or simply didn't want to change her ogs too much, not all artists like to redesign the same characters 50 times like i do lmao).
Obvious statement, but this really all boils down to opinions and preferences, of course, still as an artist with my own reasons to not be super varied (body type wise at least, even if i have 0 problems drawing characters that belong to others that are beautifully chubby), it's not super great to see someone else getting always criticised about the same things about her art style (click on any video talking about hazbin and there's the same 5 points repeated with different wording). If you dont like the show or the artist, ignore it-. I'd understand hate or exposure if she was doing something offensive, but she (for now) isn't.
I would like to politely disagree. I personally have not seen the show, only a few clips from edits and such. But I do know that there is a reason why Vivzipop chose to use a strict color palette and shape language! The red characters that you have been talking about are in h3ll. They have darker colors, and are desaturated besides the bright reds and magentas. However, the other main ppl (the antagonists im pretty sure) are angels, they are in heaven. The angels use more light colors and blues and purples. They also have much more soft and round shape language! The reds and blues are easy to distinguish and can therefore portray clearly and aesthetically, the two different sides.
There is a reason the characters are designed that way, the designers know what they are doing, it was not a mistake.
Also, the characters are not meant to be distinguished by color or shape. They are distinguished by body language which I find really interesting as a beginner animator myself. I can see why you wouldn’t know that because you haven’t watched it, but the characters can easily be told apart simply by how they move and interact with others. At least that is my opinion from the little I have seen from the show.
I haven’t watched it since I know the plot is messy and I also just don’t agree with some of the messages in the film, but I have nothing against the art. Plus, even if you don’t enjoy the art, that doesn’t mean others can’t! Vivzipop has chosen to express their characters in their own unique style! There is nothing wrong with that.
And I have a question, why does someone’s artstyle make you hate them? There are artists whose artstyle I dont like, but that isn’t a reason for me to hate the artist themself…. So I don’t really understand that bit, could you elaborate more on that?
So, a few notes. Whether or not you like the style is up to you and that’s fine. I agree Vivziepop could have done a lot more in terms of colour pallet and shape language and surface stuff but (While I am not a superfan) I seem to have watched more of the show than you said you did and I enjoy watching the lore videos.
The reason for all the red; they are in hell. It’s the pride ring. Everything is red themed. Other rings have different colours. The fish ring (I forget what sin) is all a turquoise/blue colour and the characters (while still skinny) have different themes and shape language. I think Viv really wanted to stick to the theme and make that clear which limited her choices a lot. It could have been better but whatever.
For the ethnicities thing, I think Viv did a decent job. Once again, its not perfect, but she put effort into it. I feel like I have to be careful here because I don’t want to be accidentally racist but characters do have features from their ethnicities. In Hazbin hotel, Vaggie is Salvadorian, has darker skin and a hooked nose. Velvette also has darker skin and at one point is shown “dressed down” and naturally has really curly hair. There are others but I cant mention everything about everyone.
It’s harder to talk about the diversity in Hellova boss because most of the characters are not and have never been human so they aren’t tied to human places of origin. There is diversity within types of demon, such as Loona being a hell hound, Stolas being Goetia, whatever Striker is, etc, and they all have different character designs, shape language and themes.
Beyond physical design choice, the voice acting is really good and the character’s personalities are interesting. The plots are fine and the songs have good moments and bad.
I personally like hazbin hotel better than hellova boss.
In the end, your opinion is still up to you. Honestly I’m just playing devil’s advocate (lol) and giving Vivziepop a bit of defence.
As well as this sometimes it’s easier to animate lanky bodies I believe? (That’s my personal opinion) because not everything is too close together-
As well as this it’s a good show overall ppl shouldn’t berate someone’s artstyle I mean no one is berating Disney or Pixar when their artstyle is shitty
People like to complain. That’s what people do but at the same time they need to stop because sometimes complaining abt something that’s alreDy happened will
1.either stop the show entirely ruining the creators Job and the fandom
2.or it’ll just knock a lot of ppls confidence down for liking it
here's the issue charecters having a speciifc pallet is FINE but it needs to be blananced out when you have primarly red backgrounds with red charecters it can make things seem off. for example the way it was done in the pilot was perfectly fine charlie has a lighter shade of red, her eyes were black wich kinda broke things up, ect but now they just made most of them red even in helluva boss we see SO MANY rings and things and the colors work just fine
not to mention her only 2 POC/POC Coded characters is HH are literally grey
if you’re wondering, Alastor is Mixed Black and White, Vaggie is coded to be Latina
Real😭also nifty is Japanese and she was literally yellow in pilot??also none of them have racial features,viv probally thinks being poc is a accessory lol
Sorry if I sound dense, but why is that bad? None of the demons have human skin tones, most are shades of grey. The white coded characters are either literally paper white, or also grey.
There’s plenty of legitimate criticism to have towards Vivziepop’s art, but at a certain point I feel like people just make stuff up because they want something new to criticise 🤷♀️
@ it isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s just something to think about. most, if not all, of her POC characters in ALL of her works are either animals or literally aren’t a natural color. again, not necessarily a bad thing, but in the scope of things it makes u wonder
@@SchtuSchtu22 Sure, but isn’t that the case for everything she does? I’m not familiar with much of Vivziepop’s work aside from Hazbin, but again, it seems like she just really likes drawing everyone as having unnatural skin tones or as animals.
I’m not even a fan of Hazbin Hotel, but this just feels like such a redundant critique. Nobody in Hazbin has natural skin tones, and she apparently really really likes drawing furries. Angel Dust was white and is now animal, and the snake guy isn’t coded any specific way to my knowledge.
You could criticise how she delegates anyone with curly or textured hair to the sideline, but what you are specifically saying here does not make sense, and does not hold up to scrutiny.
(Edit: ok so from a quick Google search, her only other notable work is a comic called zoo phobia, and from a glance, almost all characters are animal, of the few that aren’t there is at least one person of colour.)
I'm just addicted to this show cuz I like to imagine how better I could do lol
I agree with the body diversity and using just a little more green and blue but the only thing is that all of these characters are set in hell and if you look more at the angels in hasben hotel they are a lot more but still very chill rant
Another thing that just ruins the show in general is the excessive interaction she has with the 'Fandom', things the show SHOULD tell us, you can only find out from a tweet, and things from the show blurry the line dangerously into fanfiction (Made by ppl NOT working in the show) fanfiction has always had beef with the law ever since it's conception, I'm talking abt ALL the way back into OG Star Trek, authors with copyrighted media (Books, series, movies, etc) DO NOT, MUST NOT, interact with fanfiction, and if they do, NO ONE MUST KNOW, because you're one tweet/comment from creating a Legal problem, Copyright issues and more, another thing is that she let's herself get influenced by Twitter SO FK MUCH it stomps on the little potential the show has, instead of complex, fleshed out characters you get instead short Tiktok edits with glitter on top, she wants the hype that has ppl making full on cinematic edits, AMVs, fan animations inspired by the show but she doesn't want to put on the effort to it.
Don't get me started with the whole 'Uwu, Stolas is a precious little gay bean that can't do no wrong' bc I'll be here ALL DAY and we all know it at this point
@@zabirdy181 omg yeah its so interesting seeing how fandom and canon interact if/when that happens. long running shows i fear always end up falling victim to just becoming fan service by the end of their run (the walking dead im looking at you)
Its insane to me how I’ve seen roblox games have more diversity than hazbin hotel 😭
I feel like all of her characters have this "same face syndrome" to them, but not at the same time. Like, if you have eyes/an eye, it's going to look very similar in shape to all other eyes in the show with the most diversity being eyelashes. If you have a nose, chances are it's going to be pointy unless it's Charlie, but she's an exception because her mother had a pointy nose and Lucifer didn't have a nose. If you have a mouth, chances are it's going to have pointy teeth. There's some exceptions, and I haven't watched Helluva, but I at least see this in Hazbin so far.
Even when it comes to body type diversity, I remember her saying she's frightened of drawing muscular or fat characters. If she doesn't think she's good at it, she could just research how to do it and practice. If she at least TRIED to draw them for yher show, I'm sure most fans will at least see she tried, even if they don't think it looks good, and be happy that she attempted to show more diversity. I'm not good at drawing diverse bodies because I'm mostly self-taught and got stuck into a habit of drawing one body type, but I'm still actively trying to improve and diversify my range. Viv is actively stagnating herself in that because she's "too scared" to try.
tbh my worst beef with hazbin is how it romanticizes SA (also whats up with vizie hating lackadaisy? girlie....)
It doesn't romanticize s.a., did you hear that from someone?
@@jennifertattershall9141 i've heard it from, several SA victims. also i've seen a bit of it..its just not....
Nope that's completely not true dude.
@SoonSilverthe person who made the storyboard for poison literally romanticizes SA, and viv supports his r{}pe k{}nk.
Her reasoning? “He’s a victim”; he was not, in fact, a victim.’
As someone who was SA’d, I immediately noticed it.
Help I love your characters so much i got *so* interested in the speedpaints
aw thank you!! i made a bunch more refs recently so ill probably make another video soon! someone had actually asked for an oc lore video so that might be coming soon
@@lampoest hheheheehheheh yippiee!! Thank you good sir
As a bisexual who has a preference for skinnier guys and femboys, I'd like to say that viz's designs are too skinny and flimsy looking to be attractive to me.
I mean I wouldnt normally be for forcing diversity in a cast of characters, people can do what they want with their art- but for gods sake the show takes place in HELL not in some magority white people state in Europe! There are all kinds of people that died somewhere on Earth in different culture in different time and have different views on life, this would literally be the most logical opportunity to have a very diverse cast of characters and how their life before hell shaped them into who they are!! They dont do that in the show AND ITS SUCH A MISSED OPPORTUNITY and makes 0 sense if you think about it logically (in my opinion at least).
I agree and omg i also wanna add thing,no poc character haves ethnic features,before yall say "but velvette haves afro!" Her hair is not afro its looks like 3a hair,and showed in one scene,also ethnic features outside of hair and skintone exists,also its not only facial features,you also can show characters being poc by how they dress,how they talk etc ,viv is just racist tbh
This man has the most calming lullaby like voice that can put even an insomniac to sleep but still calls this an "absolutely unhinged rant." Like, my guy, how does one sound so angry but so calming at the same time, subscribed :)
glad you like my calming voice lol, this is how i sound when i don't really care about the topic at hand lmao
vivziepop aside I LOVE your artstyle and OCs bro
@@larkspurrblue thank you! ngl i kinda retired this set of characters but i have plenty more in the works!
I know this is off topic, but I love your voice. I wish i sounded like this.
@@electric_is_going_crazy this is what monotone white guy syndrome and a few years of testosterone does to a man
I hate how it looks like every character has the same color palette and what makes it worse is that my own character designs tend to have one main color that's associated with them
There are many reason I don't like viv and her shows and it generally makes me so mad how she literally creates a hellscape and can't create hellish creatures. Please make one of them unconventionally "attractive"for the freakin internet's eyes.I'm begging you there will be people who will like it
Hm…well…the art style is a subjective so I have no comments 🤔.
For color, the palettes a based on location:
Pride: Green
Lust: Pink/red
Envy: Blue
Sloth: Pink
Etc. I’ll continue to watch but I do recommend watching not to like it, but to properly construct it. It’s like saying “I hate driving” but you’ve never drove before, y’know?
"Diversity is not obligation !" While I agree, viv promise her fans the rep they wanted, she said she wanted to represent her lgbt+ fans and her SA victims. So, this new strawmen y'all are throwing doesn't excuse the fact she openily made the choice to do so. Instead, she decided to fetishze gay men. So why are y'all coming to a video to say "representation is non-issue" when one of the topics in the video is that, and that's one of the reasons is she wanted to represent queer people?
I agree with the ethnicities part. It's Hell... Everyone who sinned on Earth goes there, right?
I was originally a fan that lost interest, and mostly the personality and voices are the easiest way to tell the twink army apart. But Vivzie has an obession with making every character have like an hour glass figure, no matter the gender. And I know she’s bisexual, but it’s like she purposefully using the gay men characters more to tease ships over actual female characters in queer relationships, which is baiting the audience
Good video! I was listening to your thoughts while cleaning my desk. Only thing I would change is the background music. I think it's a bit distracting sometimes. Or it could be just me who got distracted by it :D Otherwise very, very good video! Keep up the good work!
@@mirhilleyanimations thank you! audio mixing isn’t my strong suit i’ve definitely been learning and hopefully getting better, my next video i really want to focus on audio first and foremost!
See I love her artstyle but I am not a fan of her in hazbin hotel using pink, red and white a lot
But in helluvaboss they’re are more different colours which make the characters stand out like the deadly sins
But overall I love her artstyle it’s just the colours :>
@Lilbob-lt8lm ive seen a very common thread in the comments saying her color/art has gone downhill a lot since her old art days/helluva era
Okay I´ll gotta be honest. lets start with the first point of that video. Color pallets. Yeah you are right that they seem to have all the same Color pallet, but this doesnt necessarily need to be bad. because it kinda makes sense that most characters have red in there, it takes places in Hell afterall, and the color pallet guessing game, doesnt tell how good character design is. a character could have the exact same color pallet like Peter Griffin, and people would still say it is peter griffin bc he`s known more. besides i can debunk your statement that you cant do the same with Hazbin Hotel, because if you know the characters, you could tell them appart by those color pallets, upper left is Alastor, lower left is nifty, lower Right is charlie, okay upper right is a bit tricky, but my guess is Husk. Color pallet is important indeed, but much more when it comes to esthetics and the world the characters are set in. if we are talking about unique characters, sillhouette is much more important, and vivziepop does quite a good job when it come to those. the only thing I 100000% agree on from this video is that there isnt enough variation when it comes to body type. but other than that i think she does a pretty good job. This is really simply just criticism, or much rather my take on this. nice video, still liked.
the issue is having red is fine since their in the red pride ring but having red on red makes it harder to see it was fine when she used black eyes for charlie but chaning everything to red was so...bad in my opinion but the rest i agree
I am a fan of the show, but seeing this has opened my eyes a bit to how similar it all looks in terms of the body shapes and colour pallets mentioned... I have always found the amount of twink body types a bit much, so it would be nice to see more variety with that.
I will say though, Helluva Boss specifically explores the other rings in Hell that all have different colours pallets to compliment them. However, since the main cast are residents of Pride (and so is Hazbin Hotel), that's why there's so much red.
There definitely is more variety in colours and body shapes as the show progresses, but I think it could still use some work.
2:24, 7:52 The colour pallets is to keep matching with hell it’s intentional so it’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t have read in their design because their demons. Heaven follows the same but with whites and golds. They do some variation with the colour pallets as well.
4:40 ima agree they need more body types :”)
You got em crying in the comments. Interesting how diversity is suddenly a choice, but basing on how anything that doesn't star a glass of milk is the center of outrage. Cute. And the show is filled with twinks, but I love my Lucifer. He's literally the only character out of both shows I like.
real bro the amount of cope in the comments is insane
Exactly this! Vivziepop fans are such goal post movers, I swear!!
Cohesive colours are good but its super easy to slip into the habit of using the same 3 colours 😭 ive slipped into it by accident and now im working hard to get out
idk but i think the reason why the color palette is so similar to the other characters is to make sure the audience knows which ring they are from. Because maybe if the colors were more diverse it would be hard to tell what ring they are from. also rings is like where they live, and all rings are different from each other containing different species of demon.
literally almost all of them look like they were made in one of those paper doll flash games or in picrew with the same body base and like maybe 6 torso and leg variants. the majority are the exact same tall legs, tiny torso, long arms, big hands, shoujo slenderman build. and it wouldn't even bother me as much if they drew EVERYONE like that, but no, there are members of the supporting cast who have thicker legs and more meaty bodies. so why can't she do any of that for the main cast? is it bias? is it unwillingness to actually use body shape language in a meaningful way? what's going on?
imo it kind of aligns with how the characters are written, too. in a vacuum. not to be in a story, not to be around people, not to react, not to interact with things. a bunch of cool and edgy ideas slapped on a base, then made to have a bunch of funny one-liners and the occasional angsty backstory drop.
to be clear i used to be a fan of both of these stories. but i was 12. i didn't really care about the bigger picture, i didn't care if anything was going anywhere, i just cared about having a reaction to a thing happening and then moving on
can someone explain to me how to add non-european features to characters that are not human? genuine question
@@dr00g35 i'd say the most straight forward way is through hair, hair carries a lot of power and depending on someone's ethnicity/culture it is worn and styled in many different ways
@@lampoest oh yeah, thats actually pretty straight forward, thanks a lot. any other ideas are also appreciated
I’m gonna nicely disagree with you and part two because it could just be by chance that they all seem to be thin and for curly hair velvet has curly hair in the last episode. I also do agree for Hasman hotel they might have some problems with the color. But for hell of a boss first of all they’re him so they all have red skin and they go to different parts of the hell which have different background colors.
Yeah
Hiii I’m new to your channel and you probably won’t see this comment but I love your art! It’s so yummy and scrumptious and the colors are just ahhhhh!
@ElliotThegoblin thank you so much! i try to read all my comments as my channel is still relatively small and i really appreciate anyone who goes out of their way to leave a nice comment! i’m glad you enjoy it and tysm for supporting!
Not to mention, the boring outfits choices they have are always just tuxedos and bowties.
personally idc about diversity or that the characters all look the same. like not that i dont find it good to have diverse characters (talking abt helluva) but the show is eally good and im all the way up to apology tour (so basically the most recent episode) anywho beside that hazbin has a really good storyline AND its a bittt more color inclusive. anyways great video keep it up