Despite our obvious differences and completely opposite standpoints, I can't help but feel a fair whack of respect to Josh for coming on the podcast this week. The man stood by his friends and wasn't prepared for anything I was going to ask. He challenged me in a way in which I thought had class, and reason. No matter which way your opinion lies on the matter, drop your comments down below. I'll be sure to respond to as many of you as possible. Much love to all of you. X
Great video. It's so easy in this day and age to get used to voicing our opinion through a keyboard, or a camera, and aiming comments and criticism at anyone we choose without any idea of the conversation that could be had if we did it face to face. We've become entrenched with the belief that we have the right to voice any opinion as a one sided broadcast, but we don't grow as people until we reach out to those who disagree, or those who challenge our ways of thinking, and question our attitudes as much as their's. X
Jessica Campbell ikr ffs every time someone has a disagreement with someone "DISS TRACK COMING OUT SOON" UM NO BITCH GET A LIFE AND STOP TRYING TO FUCKING RAP
kayla stop I opened it, flicked through, and then left it. I threw it away a while ago. It’s supposed to be an activity book but the paper is just normal book quality, it’s actually so bad 😂
To be honest I wasn't expecting this level of maturity when I clicked on this video. I think this was a very decent discussion between two people who have different opinions and are on two almost opposite sides of things. However they discussed the matters without screaming or "throwing shade" and I'm very happy to see this happening because it shows that even though Josh is Oli's friend he still acknowledges Jack'a arguments and vise versa. I would love to see Oli coming to the podcast, I think it would be very interesting. Great video and great talk, props to Josh and Jack.
Maia Fry Yeah I agree, I have no interest in this guy or the main discussion at hand but at least it was a friendly sensible discussion. The world needs more of this.. and less chaos in return for money and attention.
For start, I'm a fan of Joe and Jackmate and I personally can't stand Oli or Zoella or Alfie. (Full disclosure) but I see Josh's points and I agree with a lot of what everyone said however I wish josh would have just agreed that Oli and other TH-camrs ARE exploiting their audiences. It's not a nasty word, he beat around the bush and said it in a roundabout way but won't just straight up admit it. Joe wrote a graphic novel series, and he's selling it but not pushing it- it comes across as genuine excitement. With other TH-camrs (like Oli) it comes across as "support my merch cuz I need more material goods". A lot of people have expensive tastes and there's nothing wrong with that- but Oli and others like him dont come across even a percentile grateful. CaptainSparklez is a wealthy guy with the top sports cars and an LA home but he always comes across like he likes his supporters and his job and not as if he's milking the TH-cam cow for all its worth while the goings good- which Zoella/Alfie/Oli appear to do. Transparency like Joe/JackMate and Pewds would be nice tbh
I agree with you that exploitation isn't necessarily the worst thing to say, but I feel that, in today's PC culture, the minute Josh actually admits it people will question why he remains friends with them if he knows they're exploiting young children. Respect to the guy for subtly admitting it and not blindly defending his friends as much as others have.
Completely agree with Jack on the topic of merchandise. When I first started watching TH-cam when I was around 12 watching people like Alfie and Oli there was always this feeling that you needed to buy the merch to be apart of the 'groups' and I think kids still have that pressure now. And as kid you don't care for quality just being apart of something
I'm lucky now to follow youtubers that actually care about what their viewers think. I own one piece of merchandise from Dodie (6/10 tshirt) it wasn't expensive and got to meet manger josh who was so kind and lovely and actually cared about our opinions
Josh's argument was pretty much solely just that there's worst things in the world cause he's got no real defence for the behaviour of TH-camrs like Oli who exploit their young audience for money.
Josh was basically saying no one’s saint but can you target the really bad guys and give pass to the small bad guys that haven’t done something too horrible. He believes doing wrong things has different levels and Jack should let go of the low level ‘crimes’, what Oli does is no big deal. But Jack thinks what Oli does is high level ‘crime’ to him and he believes it’s worth talking about.
@@CL-yt8kc bruh he is a youtuber not some sort of actavist. He is stopping kids getting exploited, no matter how many videos he makes he cant stop world hunger but he can stop big youtubers emploiting fans. Also if you cant give a pass to the high level 'crimes' then why give it to low level 'crimes'
captin gamer Exactly. I think Jack should keep doing this because this is where he can be of most help, TH-camrs can protect young audience(or they can exploit them like some would do)
Decent. Seen a few of Josh's vids but never thought he was as intelligent as he portrayed himself in this vid Enjoyed both your sides to the arguments brought up
As a designer who works in the U.K. Textile manufacturing industry, I disagree with what josh is saying here. It is definitely possible to make cheap, British-made clothing that competes with the likes of Zara. We supply companies such as missguided and boohoo which are one of the cheapest stores whereas the mid level high street stores do use supplier in china etc. It would be possible for Casper or Alfie or Oli to reduce prices but they don't need to because their fans continue to buy.
In spite of all the drama with Joe and KSI, its good to see that at least some youtubers can have a classy and civilized debate... much respect to you both!
I get Josh's side of the argument, and I respect him for sticking by his friend, but he isn't gonna come on here and say anything bad about him is he, like I feel if he was having this conversation with a youtube who didn't attack HIS friends, he'd be agreeing with Jack
Your so mature and passionate for 24! Well done for this, after all the shit that's been going on on TH-cam lately, this is such a refreshing way to deal with a disagreement. Hat's off to you x
I honestly had no knowledge of Josh's work, not any comment on him I just hadn't seen much of him etc but having seen this and seen what a class act he is, I'm definitely going to check him out - great debate guys 👍
> his channel is decent Surprised you would say that Jaack. Well, I unsubscribed to his channel after the s**t he pulled on you on Twitter & I won't be resubscribing.
This podcast has really changed my opinion on Josh Pieters. I watched a few of his videos ages ago and I thought he was really unoriginal and just did 'challenge' videos as an easy way to gain views from kids. Now, I can tell he's really committed to producing quality videos and moving away from the whole 'he's only got subs because of Caspar' stigma. Literally have so much more respect for him now! Really interesting podcast, this type of thing is super important for viewers to understand more about the person behind a TH-cam channel! Jack, you just keep getting better, congrats x
I don't know anything about Ollie's upbringing but my girlfriend lives opposite Ollie whites parents house and trust be where he grew up is a lovely beautiful village. So as for the ginger guy saying 'have you seen where Ollie grew up?' Like wtf it's in the top 10 nicest villages in the country. This guy is making out that Ollie is from a low class background, which is bullshit. Also it takes 20 minutes to get into town not 20. Get the facts right.
Haha exactly what I thought. The fact it has no shops tells me it’s some sleepy village somewhere, which doesn’t sound like hardship to me. Bizarre that he uses the fact it has no shops to try and say it was hard place to grow up. I grew up on a council estate with plenty of shops and it was a shit hole haha
Understand both sides however, I have to disagree with Josh's points on Oli's creativity... A name on a Tshirt isn't creative at all. NO TWO FUCKING WAYS ABOUT IT... let's be real
I guess it’s because it’s his brand. This comparison may be a bit out there and maybe you don’t even but clothing from them but I’ll say it anyway - when you look at clothing by brands like Nike or Calvin Klein do you think their stuff is creative? Most of the time it is just a plain top with their name or logo stuck on it yet people will still buy it, however expensive. Is there really that much of a difference?
Jack is my favourite youtuber, because he speaks the truth. His real opinion. Not some sugar coated crap. I’m ngl, I used to be a small fan off oli, maybe about 2 years ago. but he’s changed, a lot. Found your channel about a year ago, been watching you ever since:)
Evie Lewis same, when oli white was smaller I was a genuine fan of him, but now i don’t really care about his content anymore. He’s almost become this cookie cutter TH-camr, which personally I don’t appreciate.
this guys logic is stupid... just because theres something worse doesn't make what you or your friend does okay... - literally a child's logic " but mum my friends at school do way worse" sort of thing.
He's not comparing them to worse things to justify it. All he's saying is it's not worth making a big deal about when there are bigger things we should be paying attention to. He acknowledges Jack's points and understands that he's got a point, but... this is like saying you'd put a kid on a time-out for spilling juice on his shirt while completely ignoring the kid beating up his mates. Know what I mean?
I think we need to pay attention to both the big and small issues. If you let the small stuff fly under the radar then things will never improve, but the biggest problems still need their due attention because they're generally more pressing matters. To use Rachna Prasad's analogy, need to punish both children but with the more severe misbehaviour needs a more severe punishment (though I don't see how spilling a drink is something that needs disciplinary action, because it tends to be an accident).
Josh’s logic : "well like Oli and Alfie dont have any rape allegations, like the president of South Africa, so then aren’t doing anything wrong. There are worse things in the world to talk about.” He didnt have any valid arguments, apart from saying “yeah creativity is subjective” and “why dont you talk about other things. He made a mistake in coming to the podcast completely unprepared and he knew that, which is why he looked so bothered in the beginning and the whole way through.
Philosophy I mean, it's not like Jack told him exactly what they were going to be discussing. I feel like it's better for his answers to be less scripted as both can put out their raw opinions and have a genuine discussion. Obviously he's going to be under pressure when he's up against an audience built to dislike Oli White's business choices as well as potentially outnumbered as he was there (though of the two of them Jack was the one who explicitly expressed his opinon).
personally, I think Josh seemed so unwilling to see Jack's point of view for a real conversation, so he stayed in one state of mind that he was right after saying that Jack's opinion isn't always going to be right, it seemed almost hypercritical to me which I think is a shame considering it seemed like he had a great counter argument.
Josh is obviously going to be biased because he's friends with a lot of big youtubers, he's not going to come on a podcast and slag off what his friends are doing. Even if that's truly what he thinks. I have a lot of respect for Josh purely for coming on the podcast however some of the things he said about Oli becoming accustomed to a luxurious lifestyle annoyed me, as he owes everything to his fans and without them he wouldn't be where he is.
Josh was so defensive and completely misunderstanding the point of Jack. Jack is criticising the content of you tubers who exploit young children. Even if jacks content was utterly shit, he isn't doing it at the cost of small children buying rip off emoty books. And dragging the South African president in this? Argumentative fallacy much.
q9216 I don't understand why he keeps bringing up the blank book because it's only £4 and there's other books that are similar but much more expensive. But the Oli merch is ridiculous
Daniel Mullins TH-camr are in a position of power within an emerging industry that is still yet to be fully regulated and criticised. Their practices should be analysed and evaluated (is it appropriate or acceptable to respect a TH-camr who looks to exploit their young, impressionable and dependant fan base so as to line their pockets.) Josh tries to compare the branding with that of Nike. Nike exist to create stylish and functional sports wear and street wear. They are a multi national corporation. You are buying into a huge brand and lifestyle. Nike isn't a TH-camr with a largely underage following shilling cheap merch. There are ways of making money as a TH-camr, even ways that are annoying like irrelevant or lame sponsors and adsense. Selling merch or things like the pointless book are ways of making money for the sake of it. It's a money making venture, directly from your young fans (let's face it what adults are buying this shit). I do believe that everyone can have their own fair and valid opinion on it. And I wish jack stood his ground more rather than allowing Josh to waste podcast time with straw man fallacies and all the aggressive hand gestures. Either answer the question or move on, you're not the one under fire JP and you'll probably regret siding with the same practices and principles as people like Alfie Deyes or Oli white. It's also unfortunate that Jack tried to point out that he was the same as Oli, in the sense of growing up with little action in his locality/small town opportunities or lack thereof. And instead of recognising or picking up on it you simply ignored it and defend Oli using the logic of his upbringing but not apply your own logic about jack's upbringing when criticising him. He also brought up plus background as if living in a small town was so awful. And maybe it was. But imagine being a child (like many in the UK today) who lives on or below the poverty line. Who might be in that audience and feel as tho they owe it to their idol TH-camr to support or want for merch. You can't deny that you aren't targeting teens with this exclusive club member merch club or "army's" or "Jake paulers" - it's like a cult leader mated with a Fit Tea salesperson and from that Gleam talent is born. You can't pick and choose your empathy to suit and defend your friends behaviour. Josh also made me uncomfortable when he wanted everyone to 'stop the negativity' so basically telling us to not think and judge the right and wrong of a TH-camrs actions. "Oh I dislike that you point out all the shitty stuff that TH-camrs do, why can't we all just smile and be positive " he may as well be saying bend over and silently take it. If we don't criticise or evaluate our current system of TH-camr practices then we don't improve them Josh. If we just hush and "allow it bruv" then how do we get better. It's industry critics that bring positive change whether it's reporters criticising the BBC or people criticising MP expenses. If something is wrong in the eyes of many then Jack is right to criticise it and hold people accountable. If they can defend themselves then good. If not then maybe what they are doing should be debated.
q9216 What a fantastic, well thought out comment highlighting many of the contradictions of Josh's arguments. I think it boils down to the fact that Jack has upset Oli and so Josh is put out by that. However, nobody should be under any illusions when trying to build a career in the public eye - you immediately open yourself up to criticism. And Jack's ridicule is to be expected, especially when you're acting in the way that Oli clearly has been. If you put videos of yourself on the Internet and promote them, as one would do for TH-cam, then you are fair game for criticism (as you are in any profession- and as you should be.) That being said, I would refrain from being *too* hard on Josh because it takes great character to come into the lion's den and take on a debate head-first. If more TH-camrs, and people in general, resolved issues in that way then the world would be a much better place.
sorry Josh, can't compare Oli's simple logo to Nike's. Because Nike has built that brand for over a decade and it has value behind it that people all over the world look for. Oli on the hand...hasn't built that much of a reputation and so his plain tshirt "design" comes off as....lazy and only done for money.
I have to say that Josh Peiters conducted himself very well. He comes across as knowledgeable and calm and he held up far better than I would under questions that would feel quite personal to him being they are about his friend's videos/merch/livelihoods. I have a lot of respect for him. I also really loved that he talked a bit about his past with being a bully and how he regrets it. It kind of shows how people grow and change and, in light of the recent revelation of Zoella's past transphobic, slut shaming, and rude tweets it's really relevant now (obviously this was filmed some months ago, but still) in showing how people change and grow. I do agree with you on the integrity thing, however, I think a lot of the way that Oli in particular behaves is due to his young age and naivety rather than malicious, money-grubbing intent. He probably hasn't really thought about what constitutes as good value and the impact that requests to buy merch regularly can have on impressionable children. Obviously, this isn't a huge excuse, but I think we are seeing a shift from viewers/consumers to wanting a justification for certain things like price and paying more attention to value. Good examples being the outrage at HelloWorld and Zoella's new advent calendar. I'm a new subscriber (found your video today when someone posted a tweet about your zoella calendar vid) and I've found you really interesting so far. As a Dan and Phil fan I would love to know what you think of them and see them on the podcast some time. :)
Where Oli grow up is a lovely place, one of the top 10 villages in the country. I know the house he grew up in, my girlfriend lives opposite it. So sorry but wtf is he on about??
yeah i grew up in a little village with no shops at all and it was a very rich place most people were lawyers or pilots around there so idk what small villages have to do with being poor lol
I'm so here for this. Honest, reasoned debate is the one. I lean more towards Jack's opinion, and i do think Josh is heavily biased- seeing that his friends are under "attack". But more respect to him for participating. so lovely and refreshing to see.
I haven't finished the podcast yet; but I can tell you now - I so wanted dislike Josh, but I can't. I don't necessarily agree with him, but respect him.
Oli White is a prat, and you're right regarding his character. However, the merch isn't the thing to go after him for. You'll lose the debate by worrying too much about a logo on a tshirt. It's not really exploitation and Josh is right. Loved the podcast, anyway, Jack. Props to josh for coming on
I know this is 2 years ago but it’s the price of the shirt. If the shirt was £5 it wouldn’t be exploiting but because it’s £40 for a shirt with a small circle.
As a mum of the younger up and coming generation of new watchers, I would love to be on a podcast. I worry so much about what these youtubers represent, what they are selling my Kids, what messages they are sending. All that shit! As someone who watches myself, I fall for some of these people, but I'm really, stick up my arse type parent when it comes to what they watch on youtube!
Anyone else think that this is a madly refreshing video? So mature. Two people with polar opposite opinions LISTENING to each other and talking openly and honestly. No shouting, mimicking or little jibes. Excellent. Thank you to both Josh and Jack for this.
Your channel is gaining subscribers very quickly which is good because we need a TH-camr who speaks their mind . And I hope that joe weller batters the shit out of ksi because of him taking the piss out of depression. Would you try to do a collab with Mehbob for 300k subs?
One of the best videos i've seen in a long time. An actuall discussion. I'm from Germany so I really don't care about the topic, but seeing this kind of respect on youtube is rare.
I really love this podcast series! Every week it keeps getting better and better and because I live in Australia, and you post these podcasts during the middle of the night for me, I wake up really early and really excited to see what happens in that podcast. It's a great way to start my weekend and I'm so excited for upcoming videos! Keep up the great work Jack & Nozzer!!
It was actually really refreshing to watch a civil discussion between you two. It brought both points of view to light in an amazing way and it also made the video very thought provoking and easy to watch
Really respected this video. Unfortunately Josh hasn't changed my opinions on bigger youtubers 'expoliting' young people into profit, just my opinion. It was nice to see both guys from a real sense rather than playing up to a camera. Enjoyed the vid! x
And that is how civilised adult debate is done! Nice work, Jack. I love how this channel is evolving, the podcasts are excellent and the inclusion of Nozzer for additional perspective and laughs is a great idea. 👍
I’m a massive fan of Jack but I honestly feel like in this video Josh has some really strong arguments. I respect him for coming on the podcast, being himself and defending his friends with no hesitations.
Props to you both for this, it was great to see someone from that youtube 'gang' go on and address/stand up to criticisms and to you for standing by your opinions and explaining them to someone who would obviously disagree with some things
I love this because you were both respectful and talked about interesting stuff. However, I feel like Josh excusing Oli saying "there are worse things in the world", is straight up stupid. Just because some more horrible things happen, doesn't mean everything else is just fine and needs to be ignored. Mainly since he himself doesn't really do what he is preaching. IDK, thats my opinion anyway. Mad respect to both of you guys
I really enjoyed this podcast. I liked that even though you didn't see eye to eye on most topics you both stayed calm and was very professional on your approach. I sat and watched the whole thing with my full attention. Keep it up man
I'm one of those people who enjoy Jaack Maate's content but also Josh's and his side of TH-cam that usually Jaack takes a piss out of. I really enjoyed watching this video. I think it's a good discussion, thank you guys!
I know I’m watching this a tad late but Why is this debate better then the presidential debate? Much respect for both Jack and Josh, Josh’s will to stand for his friends and Jack’s persistence and and honest facts is just something that needs to be seen a lot more on TH-cam. I’m subscribed to Josh, Jack and Oli and enjoy all their content. Hats off to the both of you for the mass respect, mature conversation and honest communication between the two of you... plus y’all are both wicked, I slightly fan girled when I saw the both of you in the one thumbnail, much love
Despite our obvious differences and completely opposite standpoints, I can't help but feel a fair whack of respect to Josh for coming on the podcast this week.
The man stood by his friends and wasn't prepared for anything I was going to ask. He challenged me in a way in which I thought had class, and reason.
No matter which way your opinion lies on the matter, drop your comments down below. I'll be sure to respond to as many of you as possible.
Much love to all of you. X
JaackMaate #GingerDuel
Found a mad respect for Josh for doing this! Sticks to his guns & top guy for backing his friends
Great video. It's so easy in this day and age to get used to voicing our opinion through a keyboard, or a camera, and aiming comments and criticism at anyone we choose without any idea of the conversation that could be had if we did it face to face. We've become entrenched with the belief that we have the right to voice any opinion as a one sided broadcast, but we don't grow as people until we reach out to those who disagree, or those who challenge our ways of thinking, and question our attitudes as much as their's. X
JaackMaate this was a really good idea and interesting keep up the good work!
JaackMaate that oli t-shirt looks like one of those cheap shirts you get from primark and forget to take the label off .
THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE A DEBATE! No petty behavior or screaming, just getting it all out there in a civil manor, well done boys
Casper or making a fucking diss track 😂😂😂
Jessica Campbell ikr ffs every time someone has a disagreement with someone "DISS TRACK COMING OUT SOON" UM NO BITCH GET A LIFE AND STOP TRYING TO FUCKING RAP
Casper x
Casper no banging on the table :)
Very different to Alfie deyes video
Actually did not expect josh to be this upfront and ballsy
ik what a chad
Josh looks like he really doesn't want to be there at the start lol.
Linton Jr exactly what I thought hahaha
+Linton Jr nobody forced to him to come on
JaackMaate yeah I know lol I'm sure he was very happy to be there.
Linton Jr Are you Bipolar ?
Lynxchillin08 why you saying something like that?
Did anyone get exam anxiety when he said AQA😂
Sheldon Coops yeee me 😂😂
Me 😂😂
I’m watching this instead of revising for my exams...fml
pees n lurve yes ik I’m a year late but I’m literally meant to be revising now
Best profile pic btw
Let's not forget that Alfie's book was literally just a low rate version of wreak this journal tho 🙄
i had the alfies book and had the wreck this journel and i ended up burning alfies book in a bonfire
@@ash-dy2dm love that
kayla stop I opened it, flicked through, and then left it. I threw it away a while ago. It’s supposed to be an activity book but the paper is just normal book quality, it’s actually so bad 😂
I can see both sides tbh and I respect them both so much for doing this
+Sophie Blunt :)
Same
Sophie Blunt but lets face it which side are you on
I never would have thought Josh would have come on your podcast but fair play to him. I genuinely look forward to watching these podcasts!
He got saltyyyyy
To be honest I wasn't expecting this level of maturity when I clicked on this video. I think this was a very decent discussion between two people who have different opinions and are on two almost opposite sides of things. However they discussed the matters without screaming or "throwing shade" and I'm very happy to see this happening because it shows that even though Josh is Oli's friend he still acknowledges Jack'a arguments and vise versa.
I would love to see Oli coming to the podcast, I think it would be very interesting.
Great video and great talk, props to Josh and Jack.
J SA in comparison to Alfie deyes’ video with INabber this video is so respectful and communicative !
They did a good job 🤓🤓
Please try and get Alfie Deyes on. That would be v interesting
he'd be PC all the way through it
Alfie would refuse
Yesss
HRBFC Josh hahah probably
The moment he said “he gets up a 9 everyday” to describe great work ethic killed me. Glad I didn’t watch this one on my 6am commute.
@@phoenix0547 do you even work. School is a privillege really.
@@EikSike school is NOT a privilege it's a human right to education that everyone deserves and needs.
isnt aqa an exam board?
Fraser Nixon yup😂
that's what I thought
Fraser Nixon yeah 😂
It's the GCSE I'm taking 😂
Jack Paul that means nothing to me
Jack is one of the most honest TH-camr going, his content is fucking class, I respect the guy.
+Lewis Jones much love
You can't say that from seeing someone on a screen and that's whole point of his videos.
This is such a diplomatic discussion about opposing views unlike nasty backstabbing and shitty immature distracks
+Maia Fry agreed
Maia Fry but it's less entertaining..
Maia Fry Yeah I agree, I have no interest in this guy or the main discussion at hand but at least it was a friendly sensible discussion. The world needs more of this.. and less chaos in return for money and attention.
Will brazil fc till i die man said Geordie shore 😂😂😂😂 it's true Geordie mate
For start, I'm a fan of Joe and Jackmate and I personally can't stand Oli or Zoella or Alfie. (Full disclosure) but I see Josh's points and I agree with a lot of what everyone said however I wish josh would have just agreed that Oli and other TH-camrs ARE exploiting their audiences. It's not a nasty word, he beat around the bush and said it in a roundabout way but won't just straight up admit it. Joe wrote a graphic novel series, and he's selling it but not pushing it- it comes across as genuine excitement. With other TH-camrs (like Oli) it comes across as "support my merch cuz I need more material goods". A lot of people have expensive tastes and there's nothing wrong with that- but Oli and others like him dont come across even a percentile grateful. CaptainSparklez is a wealthy guy with the top sports cars and an LA home but he always comes across like he likes his supporters and his job and not as if he's milking the TH-cam cow for all its worth while the goings good- which Zoella/Alfie/Oli appear to do. Transparency like Joe/JackMate and Pewds would be nice tbh
17RUNT
17RUNTIE couldn't agree more!
Agreeeee
I agree with you that exploitation isn't necessarily the worst thing to say, but I feel that, in today's PC culture, the minute Josh actually admits it people will question why he remains friends with them if he knows they're exploiting young children. Respect to the guy for subtly admitting it and not blindly defending his friends as much as others have.
damn what a comment my dude, 1y on and it's still spot on
Never been more impressed by two TH-cam's having a proper chat for once, absolute quality 👌👌
+Ben Foston :)
Completely agree with Jack on the topic of merchandise. When I first started watching TH-cam when I was around 12 watching people like Alfie and Oli there was always this feeling that you needed to buy the merch to be apart of the 'groups' and I think kids still have that pressure now. And as kid you don't care for quality just being apart of something
I'm lucky now to follow youtubers that actually care about what their viewers think. I own one piece of merchandise from Dodie (6/10 tshirt) it wasn't expensive and got to meet manger josh who was so kind and lovely and actually cared about our opinions
Totally agree on how kids care more about feeling they belong opposed to quality
Josh's argument was pretty much solely just that there's worst things in the world cause he's got no real defence for the behaviour of TH-camrs like Oli who exploit their young audience for money.
In this case, every TH-camr who sells merch exploits their young audience
@@seabass0795 who sells overpriced merch with no creativity to an impressionable younger audience*
Josh was basically saying no one’s saint but can you target the really bad guys and give pass to the small bad guys that haven’t done something too horrible. He believes doing wrong things has different levels and Jack should let go of the low level ‘crimes’, what Oli does is no big deal. But Jack thinks what Oli does is high level ‘crime’ to him and he believes it’s worth talking about.
@@CL-yt8kc bruh he is a youtuber not some sort of actavist. He is stopping kids getting exploited, no matter how many videos he makes he cant stop world hunger but he can stop big youtubers emploiting fans. Also if you cant give a pass to the high level 'crimes' then why give it to low level 'crimes'
captin gamer Exactly. I think Jack should keep doing this because this is where he can be of most help, TH-camrs can protect young audience(or they can exploit them like some would do)
It's refreshing to see people who don't quite meet eye to eye. Fully respect this podcast.
Josh out here talking about "bigger issues" like his channel is so focused on humanitarian stuff
Zoella sells a calender for £50...How can Josh use labour costs as an excuse...
Max Scardanelli advent calendar ....
seriously?? wtf that's disgusting man
Serious? I had a calendar business and the most expensive one was 30$ Australian
LukePingu it is an ADVENT CALENDAR. Not a month calendar.
mfchamp that's there way to make money and?
Decent. Seen a few of Josh's vids but never thought he was as intelligent as he portrayed himself in this vid
Enjoyed both your sides to the arguments brought up
Jack, this is a phenomenal piece of content. You're always so well spoken and well researched. Keep it up 💕
+Catie Kersley thank you Catie!
Catto wow. You're cool
I love this confrontation. Like how civilised and calm and reasoned it was. Great content!
As a designer who works in the U.K. Textile manufacturing industry, I disagree with what josh is saying here. It is definitely possible to make cheap, British-made clothing that competes with the likes of Zara. We supply companies such as missguided and boohoo which are one of the cheapest stores whereas the mid level high street stores do use supplier in china etc. It would be possible for Casper or Alfie or Oli to reduce prices but they don't need to because their fans continue to buy.
In spite of all the drama with Joe and KSI, its good to see that at least some youtubers can have a classy and civilized debate... much respect to you both!
+Robbie CARTY :)
I get Josh's side of the argument, and I respect him for sticking by his friend, but he isn't gonna come on here and say anything bad about him is he, like I feel if he was having this conversation with a youtube who didn't attack HIS friends, he'd be agreeing with Jack
Watched for fucking ages, stopped for a bit and now rewatching all your shit cause these podcasts are reeling me back in. Keep up the good work!
+Maarksy :)
Your so mature and passionate for 24! Well done for this, after all the shit that's been going on on TH-cam lately, this is such a refreshing way to deal with a disagreement. Hat's off to you x
Fair play to all of you, lads. This is the most honest and open discussion we've seen on TH-cam in a long time. We're positively *shook*.
This is class, well balanced & both come across really well.
Just brought an Oli White T-Shirt.
+SPORF FC cheers Sporf!
*bought 😂
SPORF Same thought. appreciate it!
@Keven Chapman cant you tell hes joking? thats really sad bro
I honestly had no knowledge of Josh's work, not any comment on him I just hadn't seen much of him etc but having seen this and seen what a class act he is, I'm definitely going to check him out - great debate guys 👍
+Chase's Channel his channel is decent
JaackMaate I'll head over and take a look! Great podcast btw mate 👌
> his channel is decent
Surprised you would say that Jaack. Well, I unsubscribed to his channel after the s**t he pulled on you on Twitter & I won't be resubscribing.
Big respect the effort you put into these jack
+Maybe thank you man!
This podcast has really changed my opinion on Josh Pieters. I watched a few of his videos ages ago and I thought he was really unoriginal and just did 'challenge' videos as an easy way to gain views from kids. Now, I can tell he's really committed to producing quality videos and moving away from the whole 'he's only got subs because of Caspar' stigma. Literally have so much more respect for him now! Really interesting podcast, this type of thing is super important for viewers to understand more about the person behind a TH-cam channel! Jack, you just keep getting better, congrats x
I don't know anything about Ollie's upbringing but my girlfriend lives opposite Ollie whites parents house and trust be where he grew up is a lovely beautiful village. So as for the ginger guy saying 'have you seen where Ollie grew up?' Like wtf it's in the top 10 nicest villages in the country. This guy is making out that Ollie is from a low class background, which is bullshit. Also it takes 20 minutes to get into town not 20. Get the facts right.
Jkinsg92 because they are arrogant arseholes
Haha exactly what I thought. The fact it has no shops tells me it’s some sleepy village somewhere, which doesn’t sound like hardship to me. Bizarre that he uses the fact it has no shops to try and say it was hard place to grow up. I grew up on a council estate with plenty of shops and it was a shit hole haha
This is what TH-cam is about. Mature and well educated debates without the hint of a boxing match.
Josh did soo well! Such good valid points and still being polite and keeping the calm.
LOOOL if he didn't Oli's fans would see through the bs
Josh is way more intelligent than I thought he would be. He holds himself very well! Props to all involved.
Josh's argument = there are bigger problems in the world and other people do it so that makes it okay
Thought aqa was an exam board
Tom Cash hahah yeh it acc is that's joke asf
Tom Cash it is 😂
i've never had a problem with josh, big respect for coming on the podcast
Understand both sides however, I have to disagree with Josh's points on Oli's creativity... A name on a Tshirt isn't creative at all. NO TWO FUCKING WAYS ABOUT IT... let's be real
Alex GreenwayFitness 👏👏👏
Agreee
I guess it’s because it’s his brand. This comparison may be a bit out there and maybe you don’t even but clothing from them but I’ll say it anyway - when you look at clothing by brands like Nike or Calvin Klein do you think their stuff is creative? Most of the time it is just a plain top with their name or logo stuck on it yet people will still buy it, however expensive. Is there really that much of a difference?
Jack is my favourite youtuber, because he speaks the truth. His real opinion. Not some sugar coated crap. I’m ngl, I used to be a small fan off oli, maybe about 2 years ago. but he’s changed, a lot. Found your channel about a year ago, been watching you ever since:)
Evie Lewis same, when oli white was smaller I was a genuine fan of him, but now i don’t really care about his content anymore. He’s almost become this cookie cutter TH-camr, which personally I don’t appreciate.
11:36 he says his most viewed video is on immigration with 34 million views, is that truth?
this guys logic is stupid... just because theres something worse doesn't make what you or your friend does okay... - literally a child's logic " but mum my friends at school do way worse" sort of thing.
tom brown I agree, you shouldn't compare a bad thing to a worse thing to justify it
He's not comparing them to worse things to justify it. All he's saying is it's not worth making a big deal about when there are bigger things we should be paying attention to. He acknowledges Jack's points and understands that he's got a point, but... this is like saying you'd put a kid on a time-out for spilling juice on his shirt while completely ignoring the kid beating up his mates. Know what I mean?
I think we need to pay attention to both the big and small issues. If you let the small stuff fly under the radar then things will never improve, but the biggest problems still need their due attention because they're generally more pressing matters. To use Rachna Prasad's analogy, need to punish both children but with the more severe misbehaviour needs a more severe punishment (though I don't see how spilling a drink is something that needs disciplinary action, because it tends to be an accident).
I've said it once in Twitter and I'll say it again "I can't believe he wore oli white merch on a podcast with you" 😂
H4R1TH 4L1 Ye I'm alright lad thanks for asking
This was so well done, the conversation was so well managed and explored some really relevant and thoughtful topics. Really enjoyed watching!
"that way I'm taking money from a business, not taking money from the pockets of children" couldn't have said it better 👏
Josh’s logic : "well like Oli and Alfie dont have any rape allegations, like the president of South Africa, so then aren’t doing anything wrong. There are worse things in the world to talk about.” He didnt have any valid arguments, apart from saying “yeah creativity is subjective” and “why dont you talk about other things. He made a mistake in coming to the podcast completely unprepared and he knew that, which is why he looked so bothered in the beginning and the whole way through.
Philosophy I mean, it's not like Jack told him exactly what they were going to be discussing. I feel like it's better for his answers to be less scripted as both can put out their raw opinions and have a genuine discussion. Obviously he's going to be under pressure when he's up against an audience built to dislike Oli White's business choices as well as potentially outnumbered as he was there (though of the two of them Jack was the one who explicitly expressed his opinon).
personally, I think Josh seemed so unwilling to see Jack's point of view for a real conversation, so he stayed in one state of mind that he was right after saying that Jack's opinion isn't always going to be right, it seemed almost hypercritical to me which I think is a shame considering it seemed like he had a great counter argument.
Josh is obviously going to be biased because he's friends with a lot of big youtubers, he's not going to come on a podcast and slag off what his friends are doing. Even if that's truly what he thinks. I have a lot of respect for Josh purely for coming on the podcast however some of the things he said about Oli becoming accustomed to a luxurious lifestyle annoyed me, as he owes everything to his fans and without them he wouldn't be where he is.
Josh was so defensive and completely misunderstanding the point of Jack. Jack is criticising the content of you tubers who exploit young children. Even if jacks content was utterly shit, he isn't doing it at the cost of small children buying rip off emoty books. And dragging the South African president in this? Argumentative fallacy much.
q9216 Ya I think Josh thinks he's Christopher Hitchens with the confidence he has in some of his nonsensical arguments. Seems a decent lad, though.
q9216 I don't understand why he keeps bringing up the blank book because it's only £4 and there's other books that are similar but much more expensive. But the Oli merch is ridiculous
Daniel Mullins TH-camr are in a position of power within an emerging industry that is still yet to be fully regulated and criticised.
Their practices should be analysed and evaluated (is it appropriate or acceptable to respect a TH-camr who looks to exploit their young, impressionable and dependant fan base so as to line their pockets.)
Josh tries to compare the branding with that of Nike. Nike exist to create stylish and functional sports wear and street wear. They are a multi national corporation. You are buying into a huge brand and lifestyle. Nike isn't a TH-camr with a largely underage following shilling cheap merch.
There are ways of making money as a TH-camr, even ways that are annoying like irrelevant or lame sponsors and adsense. Selling merch or things like the pointless book are ways of making money for the sake of it. It's a money making venture, directly from your young fans (let's face it what adults are buying this shit).
I do believe that everyone can have their own fair and valid opinion on it. And I wish jack stood his ground more rather than allowing Josh to waste podcast time with straw man fallacies and all the aggressive hand gestures. Either answer the question or move on, you're not the one under fire JP and you'll probably regret siding with the same practices and principles as people like Alfie Deyes or Oli white.
It's also unfortunate that Jack tried to point out that he was the same as Oli, in the sense of growing up with little action in his locality/small town opportunities or lack thereof. And instead of recognising or picking up on it you simply ignored it and defend Oli using the logic of his upbringing but not apply your own logic about jack's upbringing when criticising him.
He also brought up plus background as if living in a small town was so awful. And maybe it was. But imagine being a child (like many in the UK today) who lives on or below the poverty line. Who might be in that audience and feel as tho they owe it to their idol TH-camr to support or want for merch. You can't deny that you aren't targeting teens with this exclusive club member merch club or "army's" or "Jake paulers" - it's like a cult leader mated with a Fit Tea salesperson and from that Gleam talent is born.
You can't pick and choose your empathy to suit and defend your friends behaviour.
Josh also made me uncomfortable when he wanted everyone to 'stop the negativity' so basically telling us to not think and judge the right and wrong of a TH-camrs actions. "Oh I dislike that you point out all the shitty stuff that TH-camrs do, why can't we all just smile and be positive " he may as well be saying bend over and silently take it.
If we don't criticise or evaluate our current system of TH-camr practices then we don't improve them Josh. If we just hush and "allow it bruv" then how do we get better. It's industry critics that bring positive change whether it's reporters criticising the BBC or people criticising MP expenses. If something is wrong in the eyes of many then Jack is right to criticise it and hold people accountable. If they can defend themselves then good. If not then maybe what they are doing should be debated.
q9216 What a fantastic, well thought out comment highlighting many of the contradictions of Josh's arguments.
I think it boils down to the fact that Jack has upset Oli and so Josh is put out by that.
However, nobody should be under any illusions when trying to build a career in the public eye - you immediately open yourself up to criticism. And Jack's ridicule is to be expected, especially when you're acting in the way that Oli clearly has been.
If you put videos of yourself on the Internet and promote them, as one would do for TH-cam, then you are fair game for criticism (as you are in any profession- and as you should be.)
That being said, I would refrain from being *too* hard on Josh because it takes great character to come into the lion's den and take on a debate head-first.
If more TH-camrs, and people in general, resolved issues in that way then the world would be a much better place.
q9216 not true at all just that josh had a different part of the story
Oli White is a drip
Dean Alexander SUCH a drip!!!!
Nah mate that’s a strong word I mean yes I’m a fan of oil but everyone has an opinion and that’s ok. But that’s such an unfair strong word
Bethany Woodcock OIL IS DRIPPY AND HE DOESNT EVEN MIX WITH WATER!
sorry Josh, can't compare Oli's simple logo to Nike's. Because Nike has built that brand for over a decade and it has value behind it that people all over the world look for. Oli on the hand...hasn't built that much of a reputation and so his plain tshirt "design" comes off as....lazy and only done for money.
A decade? You know that's only 10 years. Nike hasn't been around for only 10 years. But i get your point
Roberto Sobreiro technically they aren’t wrong it’s been over a decade since they started
Josh looks like he'd give a good hug
this is painfully awkward. respect to josh for coming on the podcast though
Phoebe Diana be awkward if it was with Zoe, Alfie, Oli..
When he said "aqa" I thought he meant the Exam Board in Devon
Edit: or wherever the hell they use that board
Afsana Raja it's not just in Devon it's all over, I have AQA in London :)
Charlotte Duffield Ahh okeh! I did not know that, thanks
Afsana Raja i live in the middle east and we have AQA too :)
Yara Alawi Woooaaaah, seriously?
Afsana Raja it's a full UK things I remember it doing my GCSEs 3 years ago
I have to say that Josh Peiters conducted himself very well. He comes across as knowledgeable and calm and he held up far better than I would under questions that would feel quite personal to him being they are about his friend's videos/merch/livelihoods. I have a lot of respect for him.
I also really loved that he talked a bit about his past with being a bully and how he regrets it. It kind of shows how people grow and change and, in light of the recent revelation of Zoella's past transphobic, slut shaming, and rude tweets it's really relevant now (obviously this was filmed some months ago, but still) in showing how people change and grow.
I do agree with you on the integrity thing, however, I think a lot of the way that Oli in particular behaves is due to his young age and naivety rather than malicious, money-grubbing intent. He probably hasn't really thought about what constitutes as good value and the impact that requests to buy merch regularly can have on impressionable children. Obviously, this isn't a huge excuse, but I think we are seeing a shift from viewers/consumers to wanting a justification for certain things like price and paying more attention to value. Good examples being the outrage at HelloWorld and Zoella's new advent calendar.
I'm a new subscriber (found your video today when someone posted a tweet about your zoella calendar vid) and I've found you really interesting so far. As a Dan and Phil fan I would love to know what you think of them and see them on the podcast some time. :)
That scratch jack and his mate did at 24:22 WAS SO OBVIOUSLY A SIGNAL TO MOVE THE SUBJECT ON😂😂
Jodie Marie I wish we were that calculated. But watching it back it looks 100% like that haha
Nozzer hahah it so does 😂😂🙌🏻
Where Oli grow up is a lovely place, one of the top 10 villages in the country. I know the house he grew up in, my girlfriend lives opposite it. So sorry but wtf is he on about??
yeah i grew up in a little village with no shops at all and it was a very rich place most people were lawyers or pilots around there so idk what small villages have to do with being poor lol
Why was this not called 50 shades of ginger?
"Let's not talk about Oli anymore" It always comes back to Oli :D
I'm so here for this. Honest, reasoned debate is the one. I lean more towards Jack's opinion, and i do think Josh is heavily biased-
seeing that his friends are under "attack". But more respect to him for participating. so lovely and refreshing to see.
lol imagine finding a t-shirt for £5.99 at Zara
Yeah.. that's Primark prices not Zara😂
I haven't finished the podcast yet; but I can tell you now - I so wanted dislike Josh, but I can't. I don't necessarily agree with him, but respect him.
his videos are quite good compared to the rest
Oli White is a prat, and you're right regarding his character. However, the merch isn't the thing to go after him for. You'll lose the debate by worrying too much about a logo on a tshirt. It's not really exploitation and Josh is right.
Loved the podcast, anyway, Jack. Props to josh for coming on
I know this is 2 years ago but it’s the price of the shirt. If the shirt was £5 it wouldn’t be exploiting but because it’s £40 for a shirt with a small circle.
this is such a civil conversation and tbh i appreciate it so much. the world, and the internet especially, needs more of this
As a mum of the younger up and coming generation of new watchers, I would love to be on a podcast. I worry so much about what these youtubers represent, what they are selling my Kids, what messages they are sending. All that shit!
As someone who watches myself, I fall for some of these people, but I'm really, stick up my arse type parent when it comes to what they watch on youtube!
Anyone else think that this is a madly refreshing video? So mature. Two people with polar opposite opinions LISTENING to each other and talking openly and honestly. No shouting, mimicking or little jibes. Excellent. Thank you to both Josh and Jack for this.
Your channel is gaining subscribers very quickly which is good because we need a TH-camr who speaks their mind . And I hope that joe weller batters the shit out of ksi because of him taking the piss out of depression. Would you try to do a collab with Mehbob for 300k subs?
Peter Griffin he is growing because he is focusing on drama
Kyle Merson First of all, learn how to speak English. And second, KSI effectively called people with depression insane.
IEATMEXICANKIDS Dramatic? For correcting him? Grow the fuck up
Kyle Merson shut the *fuck* up
IEATMEXICANKIDS for fuck sake get your triggered ass out of this thread
One of the best videos i've seen in a long time. An actuall discussion. I'm from Germany so I really don't care about the topic, but seeing this kind of respect on youtube is rare.
When he mentioned AQA I had a panic attack. revision is haunting me smh.
I really love this podcast series! Every week it keeps getting better and better and because I live in Australia, and you post these podcasts during the middle of the night for me, I wake up really early and really excited to see what happens in that podcast. It's a great way to start my weekend and I'm so excited for upcoming videos! Keep up the great work Jack & Nozzer!!
+Victoria Anne that's lovely! Thank you so much.
This is how TH-camrs should squash beef rather than just throwing lawsuits at eachother left, right and centre.
Only video over 40mins that i’ve sat all the way through and generally enjoyed
Honestly, new found respect for Josh. He was very passionate and well spoken when providing his opinion whilst sticking up for his friends, big up.
It was actually really refreshing to watch a civil discussion between you two. It brought both points of view to light in an amazing way and it also made the video very thought provoking and easy to watch
Really respected this video. Unfortunately Josh hasn't changed my opinions on bigger youtubers 'expoliting' young people into profit, just my opinion. It was nice to see both guys from a real sense rather than playing up to a camera. Enjoyed the vid! x
Can't wait to give this a listen, should be interesting!
And that is how civilised adult debate is done! Nice work, Jack. I love how this channel is evolving, the podcasts are excellent and the inclusion of Nozzer for additional perspective and laughs is a great idea. 👍
Great Podcast, sat through the whole thing
I’m a massive fan of Jack but I honestly feel like in this video Josh has some really strong arguments. I respect him for coming on the podcast, being himself and defending his friends with no hesitations.
Props to you both for this, it was great to see someone from that youtube 'gang' go on and address/stand up to criticisms and to you for standing by your opinions and explaining them to someone who would obviously disagree with some things
Jack where can I watch your 34 million view video ?😮
+Charlie Sheppard Facebook.
JaackMaate cheers mate loving these podcasts btw
cannot believe I have watched all of this on a sat night. hats off to you I've never watched a full podcast. valid points down to earth I like it.
+Lauz Healy :)
#nozzerforprimeminister
Quality video with two genuine lads. Very glad this became a thing :) Well done x
Favourite podcost I've probs ever watched, I've seen most of true geordies and this tops them tbh
I respect it when two people with contrasting views can sit down and talk
Jack would you consider inviting Kevin Bridges or Frankie Boyle onto the podcast?
Secular Scot That would be amazing haha
PLEASE FRANKIE BOYLE PLEASE
Kevin Bridgessssss
Yes to Kevin Bridges! His bus stop joke is one of my top favourite
Ive met frankie, he’s a fucking great guy, would love to see him on the podcast
Such a civilised debate, really interesting and shows how important talking things through with people is. Really rate ya all having this podcast.
I love this because you were both respectful and talked about interesting stuff. However, I feel like Josh excusing Oli saying "there are worse things in the world", is straight up stupid. Just because some more horrible things happen, doesn't mean everything else is just fine and needs to be ignored. Mainly since he himself doesn't really do what he is preaching. IDK, thats my opinion anyway. Mad respect to both of you guys
I really enjoyed this podcast. I liked that even though you didn't see eye to eye on most topics you both stayed calm and was very professional on your approach. I sat and watched the whole thing with my full attention. Keep it up man
It's 3am in Australia but I can't stop watching because everyone is making interesting arguments and making me think
+Alice Kate THINK ALICE
I'm one of those people who enjoy Jaack Maate's content but also Josh's and his side of TH-cam that usually Jaack takes a piss out of. I really enjoyed watching this video. I think it's a good discussion, thank you guys!
I feel like I have been waiting for this video for so long 😂❤️so much respect for you and your videos
Really enjoy these podcasts there just very honest talking and down to earth I'm all about it keep it going jack
Josh is extremely well spoken, great podcast and discussion.
Intelligent conversation, I feel like you're all being very honest and you're listening to each other and this is GOOD CONTENT well done.
Best podcast ever x
I know I’m watching this a tad late but
Why is this debate better then the presidential debate? Much respect for both Jack and Josh, Josh’s will to stand for his friends and Jack’s persistence and and honest facts is just something that needs to be seen a lot more on TH-cam. I’m subscribed to Josh, Jack and Oli and enjoy all their content. Hats off to the both of you for the mass respect, mature conversation and honest communication between the two of you... plus y’all are both wicked, I slightly fan girled when I saw the both of you in the one thumbnail, much love