If you would like to purchase any tools & equipment then please see my Amazon affiliate & eBay (I do earn a small commission from any sales.) Thank you. Link: Link: myretrowatches.co.uk/tool-sale-links/ If you would like to buy any of my T-Shirts then please look here: teespring.com/stores/my-retro-watches
As someone who is defnitely still at the 'dipping my toe in the water' stage of this hobby this was absolutely perfectly pitched. The more 'how to' videos the better for me, but appreciate there needs to be balance for the proper enthusiast. Love the channel - thanks for helping me get my first steps into what is a fascinating passtime!
Thank you for this feedback. Pleased you liked it. My how to and review videos are a break for me from the epic restoration videos which take weeks to produce. This video I did all the main part in on take!
I can see why most TH-camrs regulate off camera now. Having done this job several times, I can't imagine trying to do this the way you have just now. Well done Mike.
Thanks. It was almost like doing it blindfolded! however I think the feedback on the video is positive and if it helps someone out there then my job is done.
I was yelling at the screen. You had a rate of 0 and a beat error of 0.2. I kept yelling stop, don't touch it. Thanks for showing us how to do it. Keep up the good work.
Haha, honestly this was damn hard to film as too much filming kit in front of me! Either way I got it to the sweet spot in the end. Even 0.2 to me it too much !
@@MyRetroWatches I hear you on that. If a cased watch is at 0.2ms, it's not worth opening it up...good enough. But if you already have it open and accessible, it's definitely worth working that 0.2ms lower! (Too tempting to pass up the opportunity, anyway). Nicely done.
Fabulous Mike! In nuclear power, we have this saying: “Measure it with a micrometer. Mark it with a piece of chalk. Cut it with a chain saw.” 😀 I think you lived that axiom with great success today. Bravo, Sir!! 👏
Excellent video. I was regulating my Seiko 5 watches ten years ago the old fashioned way, adjusting the regulating arm then checking them 24 hours later. It would take about 15 attempts! After watching your video I can't wait to use the timegrapher.
Great video Mike. Thanks for showing this process, and as always with your ‘good and bad’ bits always included. Real world so perfect for an amateur hobbyist.
amateurs )|!!!! watch is not good condition need a fix- one positiuon -1 sd and another postion 20 seconds, not acceptable.. - enjoy. you will nver have a good watch
Brilliant video, the best explanation so far. Your endeavours matched my own, in the sense that it looks like it’s all going wrong, and then magically it smooths out.
Thank you for posting this demonstration of regulating a movement. Your instruction was very good and I appreciate you keeping things in frame and in focus.
Absolutely superb video. Truly addicted, as a wannabe, although much dismayed at my performance recently changing a watch strap during which I was amazed at the flight path of two pins that ricocheted off my glasses after trying to take my eye out. How I laughed...
This was fascinating! It is amazing how such a infinitesimal change in the angle would change the rate or beat error so much. Can’t wait to try this again now that I have an inkling of a tried and true technique. Thanks for sharing another great video. This is going to help a lot of us.
I really learned a lot from this video about the time grapher You taught me a lot Gave me a much better understanding of the proper technique It’s very hot in Texas but out watches still run Many thanks
It's heartening for a noob to see that sometimes quite big adjustments are required: it's easy to think / worry about adjusting in steps measured in fractions of a millimetre.
Grrreat! Thank you Mike, not so many good people actually show this process as it seems to be obscure or really nerve consuming to film and edit, so yes, as Serge Gainsbourg was singing: 'you're under arrest, because you're the best' ... cheers
I do the same as you and get very frustrated however the rule is, beat error as low as possible sec per day as low as possible, set the time with a reliable reference, then wear it for 24 hours, then I adjust depending if it has gained or lost time, with this method I have most of my watches at -/+ 2 sec a day on the wrist and that's not bad for some older watches
I have minimal experience regulating a watch, so I was pleased to learn what "I know" is somewhat close to correct! But I did pick up some good tips, and I thank you for that. (Number one take-away: Don't regulate with a camera in the way!) Thanks for the effort and lesson.
Hi Mike. Great vid showing how the correlation between regulator arm and stud arm works. Of course as you move the stud arm away from the regulator arm, it will increase the beat rate and moving it toward will decrease the beat rate. I have a 1900 timegrapher and this gives you a red and blue line to help with the beat error adjustment. If the red line is a above the blue and you adjust too far the blue will end up above the red. I would recommend getting a 1900 if you are in the market for buying a timegrapher. Once again thanks for a great vid.
@RSE TE ... thanks for the insight on the 1900 coloured lines. That would come in really handy. I think I need to find a buyer for my 1000 now ... lol.
Nice video, you are maybe the first to show this on camera. But. All the literature I've read say you always need to regulate the beat error first, before regulating the rate. That's the way I do it, and I tend to regulate the beat error with a screwdriver flat against the arm, and tapping it with my finger.
You are probably right but for me I like to get the limes a bit more parallel first to see what I am dealing with. This watch was quite far out which to me at least means someone has tried to move the arms in a vain attempt to make it work. Possibly the owner.
Thanks for another excellent video Mike. I really like your warts 'n' all style of filming. It's nice to know that the issues that I have whilst working on watch movements aren't unique to me. Please keep em coming👍👍
That was very informative Mike. That is something I have to get to do this hobby ,and I'm so glad that you showed me how to understand the timegrapher. Great content can't wait to learn more on this wonderful hobby. Take care Mike and we'll see you soon. Cheers
Many channels that I know personally film and then script / do the commentary afterwards. To me that’s even harder to do but also you don’t get the spontaneity. Pleased you enjoyed this one .
That looked effin' difficult to do! I've just ordered a proper timegrapher/mic/clamp from Amazon having strugged with THAT app that everyone uses, mucking about on my desk trying to balance watches on their ends propped up on whatever to line my phone up with the watch, then going back and forth nudging the stud and the regulator then finding that the line meanders everywhere, THEN finding that the movement is magentised, de-magnetising it then repeating everything to the point of wanting to chuck the whole kaboosh against a wall, THEN realising that the watch needed winding ...aagh! I wonder if the term "learning curve" actually came from watch regulating! This helped a great deal, thumbs up/subbed.
Well Mike I enjoyed it.. I think I'll download it and play this again next Halloween night😱 Yes, there were parts that had me screaming in terror at my monitor and others times I was sobbing in frustration. 😭 This goes to show that we are all very different in how we do the same thing to gain the same result. (eventually) There were times when you had a Timegrapher screen full of artefact noise and you wanted to wait and let it clear to see the result of your last adjustment. If you simply go to your red Off/Start button and quickly turn it off and on again, you'll clear the noise and start a whole new sample cycle, thus no frustrating hanging around. You'll get a nice fresh trace without having to wait for what feels like ages. Something else I've discovered when making super micro adjustment to the hairspring stud, if you apply a constant force in the way that you did with your peg-wood and/or screwdriver, it is normal to increase pressure until it moves and 9 out of 10 times it'll move too far and the air turns blue😂... 🤬 Try the tapping method, just tap it VERY LIGHTLY with the screwdriver in the direction of choice and wait, you cannot perceive how little you moved it, but you did!!! Does wonders for the blood pressure...🤬 Thanks for this wonderfully entertaining video and the chance to add our own hints and tips.👍
Thanks I have often turned it on and off before but if you saw how hampered I was with two cameras on tripods and a Mic all on my tiny desk I dont think I could have got to the on/off button easily. As I say this is my method and it works for me, I am usually applying pressure at a different angle to how I filmed which I am more confident in my adjustments. I was solely worried about damaging the hairspring on a watch that is not mine! also to put on a good show for all you guys! Thanks for your feedback and thanks for watching.
Good video so far but with a fixed hair spring stud you would take the balance off the movement and turn the hair spring collet with a screw driver one way or another to correct the beat error. Usually you would undo and release the hair spring stud first but if you are clever enough you can do it with it still attached by stretching the hair spring.
Nice recovery on the chrono runner. It looked done for. I was clenching a bit at 25min when you rotated the mic clamp as the movement looks like it's popping out of the holder a bit. Thankfully all stayed put.
@@MyRetroWatches It was most likely holding the pushers, it was just the slight tilt made it look like it was popping up on one side and made me go 'Aaaaah' and reach out to grab it as you rotated it sideways. lol
Thanks for your feedback. So if I understood you correctly, you are placing the watch dial face down on the stand? If I placed a watch on the stand, I should be looking at the exhibition crystal? I have the same timegraph as you, been testing it on my mechanical watches. Like to learn how to regulate my new cheap watches.
Very useful video. Keep doing this kind of test videos. One question from my side: sometimes i found a big difference between the readings of the different positions. Not just a few seconds in the rate but also in the look of the lines with more erratic readings in some positions. I believe it could has to do with a not enough cleaning process but also with the wear of some specific pieces. In this situation, would you repeat the cleaning and test again or maybe it has more to do with the wear of some piece or jewel and strip down and rebuild again is just a waste of time? Thanks
Yes, its why you should test in different positions. So much can happen, from hairspring touching something, wear to pivots of balance, escape & pallets. spotless cleaning of your shock jewels and settings makes a big difference to. Over oiling of the pallet or jewels can cause fluctuation too. Always start with your jewels and work you way back into the movement.
thank you for your video, very imformative, very interested in buying one of these timers, but will the timer holder be ok for pocketwathes? thanks in advance mike, great videos
I understand the concept of the lift angle adjustment but what I wanted to know is how to determine what to set it to. How did you know to set it to 54.5 for this watch?
I haven't as yet put my first rebuild movement on the timegrapher I got here as I have been just wearing it and I haven't had to correct the time once since putting it on, for a 1970's Soviet Slava I am gonna call that a win all day long. The only fly in the ointment is the first couple days the day wheel worked fine then last wed-thurs the day wheel got caught halfway and I really was quite demoralised but then thought "do I really need to know what day it is?" as my brain does that all day long so not a 100% success but my first down to its knickers and back again rebuild and a close on 45 year old watch working lovely on me wrist...
I would hasten to add I would never have gotten there without yourself, Ratfaced Git (Soviet watch god on TH-cam), Vince who got me started on watches and Nekkid too, got to give you all kudos in educating this old dog here, next job is to replace the automatic works on my 7009, do another rare Kinetic capacitor (Lorus Fusion aka the "Blakes 7" Lorus as it has a Blakes 7 logo shaped case and bezel) and finish off my very early eighties Amphibia with a NOS dial and hands.
First of all thanks a lot for this ver useful vid. Question, is there an interaction between the regulator and the stud due to direct friction? Another question that comes to my mind is how solid are the stud and the regulator fixed. It looks like they are rather easy to adjust. I mean should a tennis player for instance better not wear his/her watch?
The hairspring passes through the regulator without touching so there is no friction. If the stud or the regulator arm could move by sudden movements then they would be faulty. They are stiffer than you think.
I think stranno wonders whether moving the stud arm will move the regulator arm and of course they should move as one unit in that case but moving the regulator arm shouldn't move the stud arm at all. In practice I sometimes find moving the regulator does slightly move the stud arm a fraction because of the friction between the two
I have a 1961 Timex Marlin I'm trying to restore. I am having trouble with the manual mechanism. It randomly stops and starts running throughout the day even when completely wound. Any thoughts?
Could be so much going on from balance issues to dirt in the mechanism. Sometimes it’s the second hand touching something too. Start monitoring when it stops , is the hands in the same position etc.
Different lift angles for different movements, the standard is 52 so the machine defaults to that. There is also ways to determine a lift angle visually but I am not that good. I just Google the makers mark and find it out from there. If there is not one then 52 will do.
On the weishi What are those smaller sized 2nd line values in each column? (small white font -2, -4, -1, -2 etc.) The ones below the 1st line, (highlighted, larger font) actual values?
Beat error is error and over days weeks months the accuracy will be lost. 0.1-0.0 is where I like them to be. It can be achieved on most watches with careful regulation.
That was great, buddy!. I wish you were able to put out videos more often, but I know it's a pain to do all this recording, editing, posting , etc. But, may I relate my horological bugaboo?.: I have gotten many old Bulova (and other brands, of course, but vintage Bulovas are plentiful in America) from the 1940s-70s running again. Cleaned, oiled, and ticking away after who knows how long lying around. BUT...a large part of the time my biggest issue is, after servicing, they run super fast. I mean at least 10 minutes per day fast!. Way more than a regulator adjustment can deal with. No, it is not magnetism. I wish that is all it was. Once in a while there will be a slow one, but most of the time they run fast...I mean way fast!. I am thinking they may be in need of a balance poising (yet more tools and supplies one needs. Do they even make timing washers anymore?). If I could get past this issue and get them looking halfway decent on the timegrapher, for the most part, I would have it made. Has anyone else experienced this or is it just me?. I see videos of guys restoring old watches, putting them on the timegraoher, and they're wonderful except for some minor regulator adjustment. Not me!. They run and tick fine but 90% of the time they run insanely fast. Besides magnetism, what else is there?. It has to be the balance/hairspring?.
Is there any magnet in the timeograph where watch is attached? I use mobile phone apps working like tümeograph. I tape the mobile phone headset microphone to watch glass and attach the other end to mobile phone. Can the microphone of the headset magnetize the watch?
how difficult would you say regulating a watch is for the average person? i want to regulate a watch with a nh36a movement and I'm worried about damaging it. Id say I have a fairly steady hand and would go at it with a toothpick, is that a good idea? Are there things you can do to reduce the risk of damaging anything? Can the rate be adjusted at the other side of the ring, there's a little gap there? Cheers
That’s a tough question to answer as I can also get the blame if it all went wrong. I never found regulating difficult but you have to be very very careful not to slip off and hit the hairspring as that is then catastrophic. It is why many watches have regulator adjusters on the bridge like a needle as it prevents accidents. Seiko unfortunately never did this from what I have seen. The small gap you see you could try but that is also how the regulator is attached to the cock. A toothpick would be too thin and a point means you will slip. This is why I use a very small screwdriver around 1mm on the flat end as it gives me more grip. Most people use pegwood from what I can tell.
Hi mike ,my seiko king turtle is running 15 seconds slow over 24 hours ,having trouble getting the back case off .I have a back case tool but nothing to hold the watch while i try apart from holding the case with my other hand.any suggestions?.great info thanks carl from cov.
As Michael Bradley said or just buy a case holder. They have 4 pins in which when you tighten the nut grip the case. This often gives enough to then undo with the caseback tool.
Don't want to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but I always adjust the beat error before the rate. I am generally happy with 0.5 or less, although many manufactures are happy with anything less than 1. I can't believe that at one stage you had the beat error at .2, and the rate at 0, but you kept going, From experience, I find most Seiko movements are at their most accurate when dial up on a timegrapher they read about +7spd
Okay yes beat should be done first but I like to bring the lines down a bit first. Sometimes on watches I have them running almost vertically which is hard to adjust anything at that point. The lift angle does change amplitude as I demonstrated at the end.
Some can be fixed within a few minutes others can take much much longer and lots of trial and error. I believe the key thing to regulating a watch is NOT how close to zero you get. But how close you can get to zero without alternate dial positions being too far off.
Hi Mike, My understanding of a high beat error is that it will not affect rate, but will cause a problem with getting a watch to start; i.e., need to shake it. Do you agree? Thanks; interesting video.
Correct. If a watch with a high enough beat error for some reason (like gotten a slight shock) stops, the watch doesn't start by itself, but needs a nudge or shake to start ticking again. With beat error the pendulum mechanism is out of balance, like a cabinet clock which stays on a slanted floor. 🤪
I wonder about the influence of temperature on the time keeping. When I do not wear my watch and I put it in a rather cool place it runs faster. I checked with a IR thermometer: skin temperature under the back shield is 36°C. On the crystal I read 34°C. That is rather a significant difference of 14°C with the ambient temperature. I suggest one should consider this when regulating a watch. BTW, quartz movements run faster in hot conditions.
It is a good question but not one I know the answer for, I do my work in the garage where its cold in the winter but I dont see any real drop in accuracy.
As a hobbyist with more interest in old pocketwatches, I can tell you long before we had this technology they used to test them in different temperatures and positions and sign them as such. The more tests the more engravings and of course, higher prices. With today's movements I'm not sure tho.
Thank You! Untill now I thought that this is a 1 min adjustment on the end of a work, because watch is already cleaned up, mounted again with lubrication.... (Silly me). Just from curiosity, when you look at mechanism trough the lens do You see it more 3D than when it's projected on lcd via camera? (I've heard it from guy who's making wall projections on concerts). All best and Merry X-mas to whole Family !!!
Sometimes regulation is a matter of minutes because if it was setup correctly on the previous service or from the factory then there is not much adjustment needed. What you tend to find though is owners without proper equipment move them when the watch starts to run slow(indicating it needs a service). So they move the regulator and quite often the stud.
@@basarGAL96 I have a few documents on my website . Not all angles are available some you have to work out. There are videos on other channels showing how this is done. Here is link to my site myretrowatches.co.uk/lift-angles/ Thank
I bought one two weeks ago and I don't know that is possible put the movement with the holder. I have difficult to found the lift off some movements is my main problem.
When a watch manufacturer advertises that a watch is regulated in multiple positions, do you know what numbers they report? Best numbers, average numbers, or numbers from dial up or some other specific orientation?
Now I don’t know. I do know that once I was in a professional watch repair workshop and they had a timegrapher that would move positions automatically every 10-15 (from memory) it would plot all positions to give an average of each position
I've watched a number videos about this Timegrapher and have yet to hear anyone explain what the row of numbers is underneath the 4 measurements shown at the top. Anyone?
They are the timings. The machine takes a reading every 12 seconds and displays them. Hence the plus or minus. From that it will average out the rate at the top left.
If you would like to purchase any tools & equipment then please see my Amazon affiliate & eBay (I do earn a small commission from any sales.) Thank you.
Link: Link: myretrowatches.co.uk/tool-sale-links/
If you would like to buy any of my T-Shirts then please look here: teespring.com/stores/my-retro-watches
As someone who is defnitely still at the 'dipping my toe in the water' stage of this hobby this was absolutely perfectly pitched. The more 'how to' videos the better for me, but appreciate there needs to be balance for the proper enthusiast. Love the channel - thanks for helping me get my first steps into what is a fascinating passtime!
Thank you for this feedback. Pleased you liked it. My how to and review videos are a break for me from the epic restoration videos which take weeks to produce.
This video I did all the main part in on take!
I can see why most TH-camrs regulate off camera now. Having done this job several times, I can't imagine trying to do this the way you have just now. Well done Mike.
Thanks. It was almost like doing it blindfolded! however I think the feedback on the video is positive and if it helps someone out there then my job is done.
I was yelling at the screen. You had a rate of 0 and a beat error of 0.2. I kept yelling stop, don't touch it.
Thanks for showing us how to do it. Keep up the good work.
Haha, honestly this was damn hard to film as too much filming kit in front of me!
Either way I got it to the sweet spot in the end. Even 0.2 to me it too much !
My Labrador was messing with a cushion as I was watching this video, and I was shouting “leave it!” both to the dog and the screen 😂
@@MyRetroWatches I hear you on that. If a cased watch is at 0.2ms, it's not worth opening it up...good enough. But if you already have it open and accessible, it's definitely worth working that 0.2ms lower! (Too tempting to pass up the opportunity, anyway). Nicely done.
Fabulous Mike! In nuclear power, we have this saying: “Measure it with a micrometer. Mark it with a piece of chalk. Cut it with a chain saw.” 😀 I think you lived that axiom with great success today. Bravo, Sir!! 👏
Oh I'm using this saying at the first opportunity. Thanks!
Excellent video. I was regulating my Seiko 5 watches ten years ago the old fashioned way, adjusting the regulating arm then checking them 24 hours later. It would take about 15 attempts! After watching your video I can't wait to use the timegrapher.
Amazing and thank you. This is what every hobbyist needs to see first hand and many of us are visual learners, myself included.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, thanks Mike! I ordered a Weishi 1000 last night with a view to attempting some regulation, so this helped heaps!
Glad it helped!
This video is one of the best to understand how to use the timegrapher.
Great video Mike.
Thanks for showing this process, and as always with your ‘good and bad’ bits always included. Real world so perfect for an amateur hobbyist.
amateurs )|!!!!
watch is not good condition need a fix- one positiuon -1 sd and another postion 20 seconds, not acceptable.. - enjoy. you will nver have a good watch
The fact that you struggled helped me understand the mechanics. Thank you!
Brilliant video, the best explanation so far. Your endeavours matched my own, in the sense that it looks like it’s all going wrong, and then magically it smooths out.
It can get worse before it gets better. Can be said for allot of things in this hobby.
Thank you for posting this demonstration of regulating a movement. Your instruction was very good and I appreciate you keeping things in frame and in focus.
Thank you sir. Glad you found it useful.
Absolutely superb video. Truly addicted, as a wannabe, although much dismayed at my performance recently changing a watch strap during which I was amazed at the flight path of two pins that ricocheted off my glasses after trying to take my eye out. How I laughed...
This was fascinating! It is amazing how such a infinitesimal change in the angle would change the rate or beat error so much. Can’t wait to try this again now that I have an inkling of a tried and true technique. Thanks for sharing another great video. This is going to help a lot of us.
Glad you enjoyed it! yes small movements make a big difference.
I really learned a lot from this video about the time grapher
You taught me a lot
Gave me a much better understanding of the proper technique
It’s very hot in Texas but out watches still run
Many thanks
You have the patience of the Saints ! especially on camera ! Well done
It's heartening for a noob to see that sometimes quite big adjustments are required: it's easy to think / worry about adjusting in steps measured in fractions of a millimetre.
Grrreat! Thank you Mike, not so many good people actually show this process as it seems to be obscure or really nerve consuming to film and edit, so yes, as Serge Gainsbourg was singing: 'you're under arrest, because you're the best' ... cheers
I do the same as you and get very frustrated however the rule is, beat error as low as possible sec per day as low as possible, set the time with a reliable reference, then wear it for 24 hours, then I adjust depending if it has gained or lost time, with this method I have most of my watches at -/+ 2 sec a day on the wrist and that's not bad for some older watches
You've answered MANY questions I've had about these adjustments! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I have minimal experience regulating a watch, so I was pleased to learn what "I know" is somewhat close to correct! But I did pick up some good tips, and I thank you for that. (Number one take-away: Don't regulate with a camera in the way!) Thanks for the effort and lesson.
Haha thanks
Great video, I've tossed a good few movements due to lack of understanding of how to sort regulate them. One of the main issues is bodgers having a go
Thanks Mike. I've had one of these for over a year now and it's nice to get a refresher now and then on this.
Well done Mike! You displayed and explained the regulation process very well. Thanks!
Hi Mike. Great vid showing how the correlation between regulator arm and stud arm works. Of course as you move the stud arm away from the regulator arm, it will increase the beat rate and moving it toward will decrease the beat rate. I have a 1900 timegrapher and this gives you a red and blue line to help with the beat error adjustment. If the red line is a above the blue and you adjust too far the blue will end up above the red. I would recommend getting a 1900 if you are in the market for buying a timegrapher. Once again thanks for a great vid.
Yes I have often thought about upgrading to the 1900. Maybe in the New Year as Christmas is expensive this year!
@RSE TE ... thanks for the insight on the 1900 coloured lines. That would come in really handy. I think I need to find a buyer for my 1000 now ... lol.
Nice video, you are maybe the first to show this on camera. But. All the literature I've read say you always need to regulate the beat error first, before regulating the rate. That's the way I do it, and I tend to regulate the beat error with a screwdriver flat against the arm, and tapping it with my finger.
By flat I mean at a 90 degree angle to the regulator arm.
You are probably right but for me I like to get the limes a bit more parallel first to see what I am dealing with. This watch was quite far out which to me at least means someone has tried to move the arms in a vain attempt to make it work. Possibly the owner.
Thank you for posting this. I am hoping to acquire a timegrapher and to regulate my mechanical watches.
Very insightful, thank you.. I'd love to see a workstation tour of your tools and equipment.
Very informative Mike, appreciate the time you spend on this to get it on camera, give comment and edit the video...👍👍
Thank you SO MUCH for this video! Just in time for my Certina regulation project.
Thank you and good luck k with the Certina. I’ve never worked on one of those.
Great video! i learned a lot. Thanks! ❤
Very interesting for a beginner like me. Keep it coming .
Wow Mike, I didn't know I could hold my breath for so long!
Haha , !!
Thank you so much for this! This was so helpful! Great video! definitely subscribing!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for another excellent video Mike. I really like your warts 'n' all style of filming. It's nice to know that the issues that I have whilst working on watch movements aren't unique to me. Please keep em coming👍👍
Thank you so much Mark. Lovely feedback that will keep me motivated!
Great informational video Mike, and since I was the exact position as depicted on the shirt, many many times during my first rebuild, I bought 3. Lol
You bought my TShirt ? Thank you if you did!
Great explanation of the time grapher.
thanks
That was very informative Mike. That is something I have to get to do this hobby ,and I'm so glad that you showed me how to understand the timegrapher. Great content can't wait to learn more on this wonderful hobby. Take care Mike and we'll see you soon. Cheers
A big thank Something I was waiting to see .Cheers.
Excellent Mike - another piece of equipment I now require!! 😜🙄
Thanks for that , now I know why other channels never show this.
Commentary ahead of pictures unfortunately.
Many channels that I know personally film and then script / do the commentary afterwards. To me that’s even harder to do but also you don’t get the spontaneity.
Pleased you enjoyed this one .
Thanks Mike, another very useful video. Merry Christmas to you and your family
Thank you. Same to you.
This was super helpful.
Thank you!
That looked effin' difficult to do!
I've just ordered a proper timegrapher/mic/clamp from Amazon having strugged with THAT app that everyone uses, mucking about on my desk trying to balance watches on their ends propped up on whatever to line my phone up with the watch, then going back and forth nudging the stud and the regulator then finding that the line meanders everywhere, THEN finding that the movement is magentised, de-magnetising it then repeating everything to the point of wanting to chuck the whole kaboosh against a wall, THEN realising that the watch needed winding ...aagh!
I wonder if the term "learning curve" actually came from watch regulating!
This helped a great deal, thumbs up/subbed.
Great! Thanks a lot for showing us the use of a timegrapher. It surely took some time...
Well Mike I enjoyed it.. I think I'll download it and play this again next
Halloween night😱
Yes, there were parts that had me screaming in terror at my monitor and
others times I was sobbing in frustration. 😭
This goes to show that we are all very different in how we do the same thing
to gain the same result. (eventually)
There were times when you had a Timegrapher screen full of artefact noise
and you wanted to wait and let it clear to see the result of your last adjustment.
If you simply go to your red Off/Start button and quickly turn it off and on again,
you'll clear the noise and start a whole new sample cycle, thus no frustrating
hanging around.
You'll get a nice fresh trace without having to wait for what feels like ages.
Something else I've discovered when making super micro adjustment to the
hairspring stud, if you apply a constant force in the way that you did with your
peg-wood and/or screwdriver, it is normal to increase pressure until it moves
and 9 out of 10 times it'll move too far and the air turns blue😂... 🤬
Try the tapping method, just tap it VERY LIGHTLY with the screwdriver in the
direction of choice and wait, you cannot perceive how little you moved it, but you did!!!
Does wonders for the blood pressure...🤬
Thanks for this wonderfully entertaining video and the chance to add our own hints and tips.👍
Thanks I have often turned it on and off before but if you saw how hampered I was with two cameras on tripods and a Mic all on my tiny desk I dont think I could have got to the on/off button easily.
As I say this is my method and it works for me, I am usually applying pressure at a different angle to how I filmed which I am more confident in my adjustments. I was solely worried about damaging the hairspring on a watch that is not mine! also to put on a good show for all you guys! Thanks for your feedback and thanks for watching.
Good video so far but with a fixed hair spring stud you would take the balance off the movement and turn the hair spring collet with a screw driver one way or another to correct the beat error. Usually you would undo and release the hair spring stud first but if you are clever enough you can do it with it still attached by stretching the hair spring.
Pretty cool. I googled "lift angle" as I was wondering what it was. 👍
That was a very helpful video. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Dude u had it at about 16:53…I was yelling at the screen…lol
Nice recovery on the chrono runner. It looked done for. I was clenching a bit at 25min when you rotated the mic clamp as the movement looks like it's popping out of the holder a bit. Thankfully all stayed put.
30 mins boil in Renata at 50c in the ultrasonic. I never saw the movement move but with the 4040 holder it could have been pinching the pushers
@@MyRetroWatches It was most likely holding the pushers, it was just the slight tilt made it look like it was popping up on one side and made me go 'Aaaaah' and reach out to grab it as you rotated it sideways. lol
Thanks for your feedback. So if I understood you correctly, you are placing the watch dial face down on the stand? If I placed a watch on the stand, I should be looking at the exhibition crystal? I have the same timegraph as you, been testing it on my mechanical watches. Like to learn how to regulate my new cheap watches.
Very useful video. Keep doing this kind of test videos. One question from my side: sometimes i found a big difference between the readings of the different positions. Not just a few seconds in the rate but also in the look of the lines with more erratic readings in some positions. I believe it could has to do with a not enough cleaning process but also with the wear of some specific pieces. In this situation, would you repeat the cleaning and test again or maybe it has more to do with the wear of some piece or jewel and strip down and rebuild again is just a waste of time? Thanks
Yes, its why you should test in different positions. So much can happen, from hairspring touching something, wear to pivots of balance, escape & pallets. spotless cleaning of your shock jewels and settings makes a big difference to. Over oiling of the pallet or jewels can cause fluctuation too.
Always start with your jewels and work you way back into the movement.
Mike great vid. This is a pain in the ass normally man I would be throwing cameras
Very good video thankyou.
You are welcome!
Good one.👍
Interesting. I have a time grapher and need to know how to use it. Thanks
Did You demagnetized the hairspring first?
thank you for your video, very imformative, very interested in buying one of these timers, but will the timer holder be ok for
pocketwathes? thanks in advance mike, great videos
The jaws of the microphone open up 60mm so as long as your watch : movement is not bigger it would go on.
I understand the concept of the lift angle adjustment but what I wanted to know is how to determine what to set it to. How did you know to set it to 54.5 for this watch?
I haven't as yet put my first rebuild movement on the timegrapher I got here as I have been just wearing it and I haven't had to correct the time once since putting it on, for a 1970's Soviet Slava I am gonna call that a win all day long. The only fly in the ointment is the first couple days the day wheel worked fine then last wed-thurs the day wheel got caught halfway and I really was quite demoralised but then thought "do I really need to know what day it is?" as my brain does that all day long so not a 100% success but my first down to its knickers and back again rebuild and a close on 45 year old watch working lovely on me wrist...
I would hasten to add I would never have gotten there without yourself, Ratfaced Git (Soviet watch god on TH-cam), Vince who got me started on watches and Nekkid too, got to give you all kudos in educating this old dog here, next job is to replace the automatic works on my 7009, do another rare Kinetic capacitor (Lorus Fusion aka the "Blakes 7" Lorus as it has a Blakes 7 logo shaped case and bezel) and finish off my very early eighties Amphibia with a NOS dial and hands.
Excellent
First of all thanks a lot for this ver useful vid. Question, is there an interaction between the regulator and the stud due to direct friction?
Another question that comes to my mind is how solid are the stud and the regulator fixed. It looks like they are rather easy to adjust. I mean should a tennis player for instance better not wear his/her watch?
The hairspring passes through the regulator without touching so there is no friction. If the stud or the regulator arm could move by sudden movements then they would be faulty. They are stiffer than you think.
I think stranno wonders whether moving the stud arm will move the regulator arm and of course they should move as one unit in that case but moving the regulator arm shouldn't move the stud arm at all. In practice I sometimes find moving the regulator does slightly move the stud arm a fraction because of the friction between the two
Great info. So it’s best to try to adjust the beat error out first, then do the timing regulation?
Thank you! Please link to this video from the App vs. Timegrapher video (where you mention that it will come)!
Good point. I will do that
I just received a Weishi 1000 for Christmas. How did you determine the angle to be set?
There are documents on the lift angles of movements all over th internet. You have to know the movement you are testing.
I have a 1961 Timex Marlin I'm trying to restore. I am having trouble with the manual mechanism. It randomly stops and starts running throughout the day even when completely wound. Any thoughts?
Could be so much going on from balance issues to dirt in the mechanism. Sometimes it’s the second hand touching something too.
Start monitoring when it stops , is the hands in the same position etc.
Is the lift angle different for dofferent calibres in the watch? So we can find that on the caliber spec or what?
Different lift angles for different movements, the standard is 52 so the machine defaults to that. There is also ways to determine a lift angle visually but I am not that good. I just Google the makers mark and find it out from there. If there is not one then 52 will do.
Hi Mike where can you find info on lift angle as i assume every watch is different
Over the internet there a documents listing many calibres . I think there is one on my own site too in the reference section
How does one know what the correct lift angle is for any particular watch?
Did you demagnetize the watch? The acquired magnetisim can cause erratic beat error and erratic speed.
Great vid Mike...and I thought that was just a volume control for the speaker! Just assumed it didn't work 😁
You learn something new every day!
On the weishi
What are those smaller sized 2nd line values in each column? (small white font -2, -4, -1, -2 etc.)
The ones below the 1st line, (highlighted, larger font) actual values?
Very good
Never seen a something like this! 10x
Wow thanks. Makes it worth me filming when I get good feedback
Painstaking ❤
Isn't beat error of 0.2 very good? Why chasing the 0ms?
Beat error is error and over days weeks months the accuracy will be lost. 0.1-0.0 is where I like them to be. It can be achieved on most watches with careful regulation.
@@MyRetroWatches Ok thanks.
That was great, buddy!. I wish you were able to put out videos more often, but I know it's a pain to do all this recording, editing, posting , etc.
But, may I relate my horological bugaboo?.:
I have gotten many old Bulova (and other brands, of course, but vintage Bulovas are plentiful in America) from the 1940s-70s running again. Cleaned, oiled, and ticking away after who knows how long lying around.
BUT...a large part of the time my biggest issue is, after servicing, they run super fast. I mean at least 10 minutes per day fast!. Way more than a regulator adjustment can deal with. No, it is not magnetism. I wish that is all it was.
Once in a while there will be a slow one, but most of the time they run fast...I mean way fast!.
I am thinking they may be in need of a balance poising (yet more tools and supplies one needs. Do they even make timing washers anymore?).
If I could get past this issue and get them looking halfway decent on the timegrapher, for the most part, I would have it made.
Has anyone else experienced this or is it just me?. I see videos of guys restoring old watches, putting them on the timegraoher, and they're wonderful except for some minor regulator adjustment. Not me!. They run and tick fine but 90% of the time they run insanely fast. Besides magnetism, what else is there?. It has to be the balance/hairspring?.
Is there any magnet in the timeograph where watch is attached? I use mobile phone apps working like tümeograph. I tape the mobile phone headset microphone to watch glass and attach the other end to mobile phone. Can the microphone of the headset magnetize the watch?
@@basarGAL96 no magnets it has a sliding spring clamp. Magenta can’t go anywhere near mechanical watches
@MyRetroWatches I couldnt understand your last sentence "magenta can't go anywhere"?
@@basarGAL96 sorry typo. Magnets can’t go anywhere near mechanical watches. Magnetism will make watches run really bad.
how difficult would you say regulating a watch is for the average person? i want to regulate a watch with a nh36a movement and I'm worried about damaging it. Id say I have a fairly steady hand and would go at it with a toothpick, is that a good idea? Are there things you can do to reduce the risk of damaging anything? Can the rate be adjusted at the other side of the ring, there's a little gap there? Cheers
That’s a tough question to answer as I can also get the blame if it all went wrong.
I never found regulating difficult but you have to be very very careful not to slip off and hit the hairspring as that is then catastrophic. It is why many watches have regulator adjusters on the bridge like a needle as it prevents accidents. Seiko unfortunately never did this from what I have seen. The small gap you see you could try but that is also how the regulator is attached to the cock.
A toothpick would be too thin and a point means you will slip. This is why I use a very small screwdriver around 1mm on the flat end as it gives me more grip. Most people use pegwood from what I can tell.
Hi mike ,my seiko king turtle is running 15 seconds slow over 24 hours ,having trouble getting the back case off .I have a back case tool but nothing to hold the watch while i try apart from holding the case with my other hand.any suggestions?.great info thanks carl from cov.
I wear a thick leather glove to hold the watch more tightly and protect my hand (just in case) if the back is on insanely tight.
As Michael Bradley said or just buy a case holder. They have 4 pins in which when you tighten the nut grip the case. This often gives enough to then undo with the caseback tool.
You were doing good at 0 sec and .3. I think I would have left it alone.
question-
Why don’t you dial in the beat error first, then dial in the rate?
Don't want to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but I always adjust the beat error before the rate. I am generally happy with 0.5 or less, although many manufactures are happy with anything less than 1. I can't believe that at one stage you had the beat error at .2, and the rate at 0, but you kept going, From experience, I find most Seiko movements are at their most accurate when dial up on a timegrapher they read about +7spd
Okay yes beat should be done first but I like to bring the lines down a bit first. Sometimes on watches I have them running almost vertically which is hard to adjust anything at that point.
The lift angle does change amplitude as I demonstrated at the end.
@@MyRetroWatches Nice to have watched someone else struggle to get it right. Can't tell you the amount of times I have pulled my hair out.
Some can be fixed within a few minutes others can take much much longer and lots of trial and error. I believe the key thing to regulating a watch is NOT how close to zero you get. But how close you can get to zero without alternate dial positions being too far off.
Thank you sar
Hi Mike,
My understanding of a high beat error is that it will not affect rate, but will cause a problem with getting a watch to start; i.e., need to shake it. Do you agree?
Thanks; interesting video.
Correct. If a watch with a high enough beat error for some reason (like gotten a slight shock) stops, the watch doesn't start by itself, but needs a nudge or shake to start ticking again.
With beat error the pendulum mechanism is out of balance, like a cabinet clock which stays on a slanted floor. 🤪
I wonder about the influence of temperature on the time keeping. When I do not wear my watch and I put it in a rather cool place it runs faster. I checked with a IR thermometer: skin temperature under the back shield is 36°C. On the crystal I read 34°C. That is rather a significant difference of 14°C with the ambient temperature. I suggest one should consider this when regulating a watch. BTW, quartz movements run faster in hot conditions.
It is a good question but not one I know the answer for, I do my work in the garage where its cold in the winter but I dont see any real drop in accuracy.
As a hobbyist with more interest in old pocketwatches, I can tell you long before we had this technology they used to test them in different temperatures and positions and sign them as such. The more tests the more engravings and of course, higher prices. With today's movements I'm not sure tho.
Thank You!
Untill now I thought that this is a 1 min adjustment on the end of a work, because watch is already cleaned up, mounted again with lubrication.... (Silly me).
Just from curiosity, when you look at mechanism trough the lens do You see it more 3D than when it's projected on lcd via camera? (I've heard it from guy who's making wall projections on concerts).
All best and Merry X-mas to whole Family !!!
Sometimes regulation is a matter of minutes because if it was setup correctly on the previous service or from the factory then there is not much adjustment needed.
What you tend to find though is owners without proper equipment move them when the watch starts to run slow(indicating it needs a service). So they move the regulator and quite often the stud.
What height should a watch work surface be from a seated position?
How can we learn the lift angle of our watch? How did you learn yours?
@@basarGAL96 I have a few documents on my website . Not all angles are available some you have to work out. There are videos on other channels showing how this is done.
Here is link to my site
myretrowatches.co.uk/lift-angles/
Thank
What is that little screw on the stud arm?
It’s what holds the brass stud in place. Remove that to remove the hairspring
12:03 "I'm dreading slipping to be honest with you because that would be a disaster on film cause this isn't my watch." 😆
Haha! Yep chose the wrong watch to video this on because if the driver slipped into the hairspring it would have caused me a massive headache!
I bought one two weeks ago and I don't know that is possible put the movement with the holder. I have difficult to found the lift off some movements is my main problem.
Yes, you have to think that if a watch is in a case , why not in a holder? The Bergeon 4040 holder fits just nicely in the mic holder thingy.
@@MyRetroWatches Because the separation with the microphone. In the end after all the metal of cases transmitting the sound.
Very very scared to tackle this as a novice. Baby steps!
When a watch manufacturer advertises that a watch is regulated in multiple positions, do you know what numbers they report? Best numbers, average numbers, or numbers from dial up or some other specific orientation?
Now I don’t know. I do know that once I was in a professional watch repair workshop and they had a timegrapher that would move positions automatically every 10-15 (from memory) it would plot all positions to give an average of each position
Ive got same machine and its fine
I've watched a number videos about this Timegrapher and have yet to hear anyone explain what the row of numbers is underneath the 4 measurements shown at the top. Anyone?
They are the timings. The machine takes a reading every 12 seconds and displays them. Hence the plus or minus. From that it will average out the rate at the top left.
Looks very rustic ;)
Unbelievable I didn't know it had a column wheel.🤯🤯🤯
How can we puchase it