I just picked up a Weishi 1900 during the 11.11, so this video is definitely helpful. The sheer amount of equipment required and the costs associated with the more expensive items are brutal when trying to break into this hobby.
Having used THAT app, I got a Weishi 1000 a couple years ago - total game changer. I'm not one for stripping mvts down, I'm more into 'making' watches, but I do love to regulate the mvts (usually NHs). Thanks Mike.
Thank you for learning us how to use that timegrapher. I bought one, but I was not sure how to deal with it; then I shall regulate my watches better now !. Great video, thanks !.
Thanks, Mike. I've seen both of these previous videos, but having them combined into one is a great idea. Alas, I currently have but one mechanical watch (NH35 movement) in a sea of quartz. Nonetheless, the microminiaturization of these mechanical marvels continues to astound me. Has it been anyone else's experience that my mechanical watch likes to be worn? That is too say, when I'm wearing it, it keeps great time of
I can’t say I’ve seen that issue before that positional would make the watch more accurate. Dial down is about the least stressful position for a watch to sit a run.
Hi Mike. I am loving your channel..I am a clock person at the moment but hopefully one day will build my confidence to work on watches. A quick question re the Weishi, will it work to regulate clock movements do you know?
Thanks for s great video. I have just ordered the Waishi 1900. Hopefully will get it for Christmas. I have previously been asking different watchmakers to use theirs at shops. But after all the hassle decided to buy my own from China. Duty and shipping included £118 not a bad price
That’s called positional error and it’s normal . The higher quality of movement the better its positional error. My 100 year old Omega stated on the movement tested to two positions . It’s gravity mainly that causes the balance to be pulled more one way same with some wheels.
@@MyRetroWatches Hi Mike, thanks for your prompt response. My vintage 1963 14K solid gold Omega Seamaster De Ville, made for the American market, also, adjusted in two positions. Apparently, the watch is rare. because of the limited numbers produced. I took a bit of a gamble on it when I purchased it In America. Fortunately, all authentic as confirmed by my watchmaker in the the UK. Interesting videos, I always look forward to them. Kind Regards
A useful video, apart from seconds per day, the other stuff I didn't know. I finally got a Red Star 'kakume' a few days ago, I had to buy it again, and Royal Mail didn't care that they caused the first one to be missing.
Last day in the big house m8, should be online soon... the 4R35 I rebuilt I thought was buggered but it turns out I don't move my arms around enough to keep a charge going lol, its actually going on to my Weishi when I get back as it runs jus' a little slow over a week so just needs a post rebuild calibrate as likely the oils have settled, pivots all now in their seatings and its changed the movement dynamics just a hair. Mystery as to why I had a mini stroke explained, they massively messed up my triple bypass and only one of the three "pipes" is functioning, 2 are closed off so its a turn on the table to see if they can stent them into working but doctor seems to think its another bypass /cry
Don't got time to watch this, but in my experience you'll think these things are really defective until you realize that gravity has a huge effect on the watch's speed, and you need to average the speed of it in all orientations, not just face up.
Yep, makes a huge difference. I regulate my watches to four or five positions, then take an average. If that average is sitting somewhere from -5 to +5 sec/day, with minimal beat error, I’m ok with that 🤷♂️
That’s why you check a watch in 4 positions and average them all out. Not something I shown in this particular video but do talk about it in my more in depth video I made a few years ago
I have an old (ish) Seiko SNZG13 which I had the crystal replaced about a year ago. The guy who serviced it said it could probably do with a new (more modern) movement (original is an 7S36) as it's losing about 45 seconds a day. Could this not just be a regulation issue or do you think the movement could really be that shot?
I have a few documents on my website . Not all angles are available some you have to work out. There are videos on other channels showing how this is done. Here is link to my site myretrowatches.co.uk/lift-angles/ Thank
You would need to watch my other video on Timegrapher really to see , watch sits in a holder ( briefly shown in section one) in the holder we can move it to different positions to simulate real world. In the stand is a piezo microphone which listens to the ticking and the software algorithm gives you the real time graph.
I have been looking for a video like this. I actually sent my Seiko turtle in to my local watch guy, since the watch was picking up at least two minutes a day. He did something to it I guess. Now it is running about 1 min fast a day. I know the watch can do better. My Samurai runs about 30 sec slow per month. Same movement, so I know I can get it better. Santa will be bringing me a timegrapher for Christmas. Thanks very much for posting this.
Its probably magnetised or has been and overlapped the balance spring, hitting the watch sideways into your palm a few times in defferent directions could fix it. After you demagnetize it. I expect your watch guy did it demagnetize
Usually hairspring related if it’s running fast. You can try demagnetising it but unless the caseback is off the tool might not have enough effect. Sadly there seem to be too many bandits out there who will repair watches but not to a high standard. Just watch my Seiko Turtle video I recently posted as it shows what Seiko authorised repairer did to a watch
Hi Mike, great video. Just a point of interest, on vitage watches you can have low amplitude values. On my vintage Omega Seamaster, after a professional service by a Master Watchmaker I was getting readings of 230. When I checked with Omega for my specific watch movement, they quoted a minimum reading of 170 as being acceptable. Interesting. Kind Regards
Not sure I totally buy that. Amplitude equals health and how frictionless it is. With proper cleaning , polished pivots and accurate oiling coupled with a new mainspring for instance will give good readings regardless of age unless something is really worn. My mentor a local watchmaker will watch my videos and then tell me the amplitude is too low and how he would not give a watch back to the customer unless it was 260+ To me 170 is far too low. Although the watch would run and be fairly accurate not having the full swing of the balance would lead to a shorter period before needing to service again.
@@MyRetroWatches Hi Mike, Thanks for your prompt response. I tend to agree with you and it makes sense. Just a little surprised at the Omega response. I wanted to make sure that damage was not being caused not having a service history. However, I do take some comfort in the fact that I had the watch fully serviced, including main spring replacement, cleaning, lubricating using different vicosity oils etc by a Masterwatchmaker. Amplitude is running at +/- 240. Kind Regards and thanks for sharing your videos.
@ watches are generally pretty resilient. People don’t service them and they stop. Sit in a draw until turning vintage. In many respects buying a 60 year old watch that’s had 6 services old cause you more trouble as it will be well used and wear to parts could have happened. Marks in the caseback can mean a service but it could also mean it’s had a repair. Sadly you will never now .
Mike where did you get that tool block on your bench? I didn't see it in your tool listing. Also my ultrasonic machine died on me so I ordered a new one from your link. Thanks and great vid as always. 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Just use watch o scope with piezo mic (acoustic guitar players use this to transfer the audio to speaker). They're 10 times cheaper and still gives the same result
The problem is when the telegrapher does nor pick up the beat, at all or there is just snow. The Seiko 4205 is a particular nightmare - have you had any experience. There are two versions of this movement
@@serialcoins not with that one particularly. Turning the gain down helps. I’ve had issues with some movements when I have them in the holder rather than the case as there can be some reverb. I have had this tool for 6-7 years now and I’ve never had a watch I can’t regulate.
One thing I'd add is keeping the lift angle on 52° isn't "playing it safe" timegraphers are by design precision instruments. Best practice is always to check the lift angle of any movement yourself (be it online where thewatchguy has an incredibly comprehensive list or via the technique demonstrated by Watch Repair Tutorials). This is especially important for WeiShi machines as tests have shown that running with the correct lift angle, they can be off by as much as 25°. You want as accurate a reading as humanly possible at any given time
@@ciaranwatchrepair well yes and in another video I did a few years back I go into detail about this . When you don’t know the angle and have not worked out how do calculate it then 52 will do. Lift does not seem to change beat or rate in my experience
@MyRetroWatches ampltude is always the most important reading when it comes to regulation though. Each change to the horizontal positions affects the vertical ones. So if your amplitude is reading as higher than it is (or lower than it is) due to incorrect lift angle, you may end up chasing your tail trying to regulate a watch that has a fault that needs to be addressed
@@parrot2457 watch is put in a holder that can be moved into different positions, the stand has a piezo microphone in it that listens to the beat , tick tock. Software and an algorithm plot this into a graph to interpret what it’s hearing .
But HOW does it work? Does it sense the watch using acoustics? Lift Angle, haven't heard anybody explain what it means. And I don't know what it means.
Piezo microphone that is listening to the clicks of the impulse jewel swinging through the pallet fork. It then calculates the difference for the “tick and tock “ Lift angle is the degrees of travel the impulse jewel enters and leaves the pallet fork crown. My older video on Timegrapher I talk about this more. This video is just two clips from restoration videos I’ve made. Just thought they might be useful to people out there.
This is one of the most fascinating videos I’ve watched in ages. Often wondered how things like this are done. Love your calm style too!
I just picked up a Weishi 1900 during the 11.11, so this video is definitely helpful. The sheer amount of equipment required and the costs associated with the more expensive items are brutal when trying to break into this hobby.
I will be posting a video this week on watch tools from AliExpress so stay tuned for that one .
Having used THAT app, I got a Weishi 1000 a couple years ago - total game changer. I'm not one for stripping mvts down, I'm more into 'making' watches, but I do love to regulate the mvts (usually NHs). Thanks Mike.
Your a super star indeed thanks for this video, l now can practise this on a couple of my Seiko 5s bought at car boot sales 😀
Another great informative video, Thank you Mike.
Thank you for that instruction Mike. Very interesting.
Great video, now I understand how the timegrapher works 👍👍
Thank you for learning us how to use that timegrapher. I bought one, but I was not sure how to deal with it; then I shall regulate my watches better now !. Great video, thanks !.
Thanks, Mike. I've seen both of these previous videos, but having them combined into one is a great idea. Alas, I currently have but one mechanical watch (NH35 movement) in a sea of quartz. Nonetheless, the microminiaturization of these mechanical marvels continues to astound me.
Has it been anyone else's experience that my mechanical watch likes to be worn? That is too say, when I'm wearing it, it keeps great time of
I can’t say I’ve seen that issue before that positional would make the watch more accurate. Dial down is about the least stressful position for a watch to sit a run.
@@NoNonsense316 interesting. I also find that my Omega Seamaster is far more accurate when worn than when off the wrist.
Great Video
Thank you very much that was extremely helpful
Thank you very much. A very helpful video. 🎉
Hi Mike. I am loving your channel..I am a clock person at the moment but hopefully one day will build my confidence to work on watches. A quick question re the Weishi, will it work to regulate clock movements do you know?
Thank for show and tell. Where the best place to find the lift angle for caliber? Also what do you think about pocket watches lift angles.
Well put together video… I got a weishi 6000 MkIII awesome machine…
Thanks for s great video. I have just ordered the Waishi 1900. Hopefully will get it for Christmas. I have previously been asking different watchmakers to use theirs at shops. But after all the hassle decided to buy my own from China. Duty and shipping included £118 not a bad price
thats decent for thee 1900 which I want to upgrade to.
I think you would love to see my WORKING 1948 all TUBE timegrapher still working like the day it was made….
I enjoy your videos. We appreciate you Mike! 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 🇺🇸
@@donnyboon2896 thank you
Hi Mike, I also found thst the values can vary quite a bit, depending on the positioning of the watch.
That’s called positional error and it’s normal . The higher quality of movement the better its positional error. My 100 year old Omega stated on the movement tested to two positions .
It’s gravity mainly that causes the balance to be pulled more one way same with some wheels.
@@MyRetroWatches Hi Mike, thanks for your prompt response. My vintage 1963 14K solid gold Omega Seamaster De Ville, made for the American market, also, adjusted in two positions. Apparently, the watch is rare. because of the limited numbers produced. I took a bit of a gamble on it when I purchased it In America. Fortunately, all authentic as confirmed by my watchmaker in the the UK. Interesting videos, I always look forward to them. Kind Regards
A useful video, apart from seconds per day, the other stuff I didn't know.
I finally got a Red Star 'kakume' a few days ago, I had to buy it again, and Royal Mail didn't care that they caused the first one to be missing.
Glad I could help!
Last day in the big house m8, should be online soon... the 4R35 I rebuilt I thought was buggered but it turns out I don't move my arms around enough to keep a charge going lol, its actually going on to my Weishi when I get back as it runs jus' a little slow over a week so just needs a post rebuild calibrate as likely the oils have settled, pivots all now in their seatings and its changed the movement dynamics just a hair. Mystery as to why I had a mini stroke explained, they massively messed up my triple bypass and only one of the three "pipes" is functioning, 2 are closed off so its a turn on the table to see if they can stent them into working but doctor seems to think its another bypass /cry
Don't got time to watch this, but in my experience you'll think these things are really defective until you realize that gravity has a huge effect on the watch's speed, and you need to average the speed of it in all orientations, not just face up.
Yep, makes a huge difference. I regulate my watches to four or five positions, then take an average. If that average is sitting somewhere from -5 to +5 sec/day, with minimal beat error, I’m ok with that 🤷♂️
That’s why you check a watch in 4 positions and average them all out.
Not something I shown in this particular video but do talk about it in my more in depth video I made a few years ago
I have an old (ish) Seiko SNZG13 which I had the crystal replaced about a year ago. The guy who serviced it said it could probably do with a new (more modern) movement (original is an 7S36) as it's losing about 45 seconds a day. Could this not just be a regulation issue or do you think the movement could really be that shot?
How do you know about the 54* lift angle?
I have a few documents on my website . Not all angles are available some you have to work out. There are videos on other channels showing how this is done.
Here is link to my site
myretrowatches.co.uk/lift-angles/
Thank
Does the TIMEGRAPH work on sound? How does it get it’s values it not physically hooked up to watch?
You would need to watch my other video on Timegrapher really to see , watch sits in a holder ( briefly shown in section one) in the holder we can move it to different positions to simulate real world. In the stand is a piezo microphone which listens to the ticking and the software algorithm gives you the real time graph.
@ Fascinating
I have been looking for a video like this. I actually sent my Seiko turtle in to my local watch guy, since the watch was picking up at least two minutes a day. He did something to it I guess. Now it is running about 1 min fast a day. I know the watch can do better. My Samurai runs about 30 sec slow per month. Same movement, so I know I can get it better. Santa will be bringing me a timegrapher for Christmas. Thanks very much for posting this.
Its probably magnetised or has been and overlapped
the balance spring, hitting the watch sideways into your palm a few times in defferent directions could fix it. After you demagnetize it. I expect your watch guy did it demagnetize
Or just take it to a better watchmaker. I can service/maintain watches in the UK if interested.
Usually hairspring related if it’s running fast. You can try demagnetising it but unless the caseback is off the tool might not have enough effect.
Sadly there seem to be too many bandits out there who will repair watches but not to a high standard.
Just watch my Seiko Turtle video I recently posted as it shows what Seiko authorised repairer did to a watch
Hi Mike, great video. Just a point of interest, on vitage watches you can have low amplitude values. On my vintage Omega Seamaster, after a professional service by a Master Watchmaker I was getting readings of 230. When I checked with Omega for my specific watch movement, they quoted a minimum reading of 170 as being acceptable. Interesting. Kind Regards
Not sure I totally buy that. Amplitude equals health and how frictionless it is. With proper cleaning , polished pivots and accurate oiling coupled with a new mainspring for instance will give good readings regardless of age unless something is really worn.
My mentor a local watchmaker will watch my videos and then tell me the amplitude is too low and how he would not give a watch back to the customer unless it was 260+
To me 170 is far too low. Although the watch would run and be fairly accurate not having the full swing of the balance would lead to a shorter period before needing to service again.
@@MyRetroWatches Hi Mike,
Thanks for your prompt response. I tend to agree with you and it makes sense. Just a little surprised at the Omega response. I wanted to make sure that damage was not being caused not having a service history. However, I do take some comfort in the fact that I had the watch fully serviced, including main spring replacement, cleaning, lubricating using different vicosity oils etc by a Masterwatchmaker. Amplitude is running at +/- 240.
Kind Regards and thanks for sharing your videos.
@ watches are generally pretty resilient. People don’t service them and they stop. Sit in a draw until turning vintage.
In many respects buying a 60 year old watch that’s had 6 services old cause you more trouble as it will be well used and wear to parts could have happened.
Marks in the caseback can mean a service but it could also mean it’s had a repair. Sadly you will never now .
Thanks Mike. It is great to have a real watch enthusiast like you that one can bounce things off. I am a beginner, but learning. 👍
Mike where did you get that tool block on your bench? I didn't see it in your tool listing. Also my ultrasonic machine died on me so I ordered a new one from your link. Thanks and great vid as always. 🇬🇧🇺🇸
@@machinistmikethetinkerer4827 cousins uk but I’ve seen similar ones in AliExpress
@@MyRetroWatches thanks!
How is the watch connected to the reference?
Just use watch o scope with piezo mic (acoustic guitar players use this to transfer the audio to speaker). They're 10 times cheaper and still gives the same result
The problem is when the telegrapher does nor pick up the beat, at all or there is just snow. The Seiko 4205 is a particular nightmare - have you had any experience. There are two versions of this movement
@@serialcoins not with that one particularly. Turning the gain down helps. I’ve had issues with some movements when I have them in the holder rather than the case as there can be some reverb. I have had this tool for 6-7 years now and I’ve never had a watch I can’t regulate.
@@MyRetroWatchesVery impressive - but if you're looking for a challenge👍
Nice shirt sir.
Thanks! will be on sale in my store (opens next week) www.time-tees.com/
One thing I'd add is keeping the lift angle on 52° isn't "playing it safe" timegraphers are by design precision instruments.
Best practice is always to check the lift angle of any movement yourself (be it online where thewatchguy has an incredibly comprehensive list or via the technique demonstrated by Watch Repair Tutorials).
This is especially important for WeiShi machines as tests have shown that running with the correct lift angle, they can be off by as much as 25°. You want as accurate a reading as humanly possible at any given time
@@ciaranwatchrepair well yes and in another video I did a few years back I go into detail about this . When you don’t know the angle and have not worked out how do calculate it then 52 will do. Lift does not seem to change beat or rate in my experience
@MyRetroWatches ampltude is always the most important reading when it comes to regulation though. Each change to the horizontal positions affects the vertical ones. So if your amplitude is reading as higher than it is (or lower than it is) due to incorrect lift angle, you may end up chasing your tail trying to regulate a watch that has a fault that needs to be addressed
But how does a timegrapher actually work?
@@parrot2457 watch is put in a holder that can be moved into different positions, the stand has a piezo microphone in it that listens to the beat , tick tock. Software and an algorithm plot this into a graph to interpret what it’s hearing .
But HOW does it work? Does it sense the watch using acoustics? Lift Angle, haven't heard anybody explain what it means. And I don't know what it means.
Piezo microphone that is listening to the clicks of the impulse jewel swinging through the pallet fork. It then calculates the difference for the “tick and tock “
Lift angle is the degrees of travel the impulse jewel enters and leaves the pallet fork crown. My older video on Timegrapher I talk about this more. This video is just two clips from restoration videos I’ve made. Just thought they might be useful to people out there.
@@MyRetroWatches Excellent, better appreciation of that now! I thank you.