Have my videos have helped you? why not support the channel in some way You can make a one off/ monthy donation here in only one click: www.buymeacoffee.com/MyRetroWatches If you would like to purchase any tools & equipment then please see my Amazon affiliate & eBay (I do earn a small commission from any sales.) Thank you. Link: Link: myretrowatches.co.uk/tool-sale-links/ If you would like to buy any of my T-Shirts then please look here: teespring.com/stores/my-retro-watches
I already kinda knew what happenes when you don't oil and over oil a watch... But nevertheless it was was very interesting to watch someone elses take on this topic especially because oiling is so difficult to get right when you're new to the hobby!
This was extremely useful, thank you! If I may venture a guess, when you over-oiled - the oil probably went on to the hairspring and sort of glued its coils together a bit. This would make the hairspring effectively shorter - the effect is not dissimilar to the one you get when the hairspring is magnetized. And this would result in the significant gaining of the mechanism.
This channel never disappoints. Fantastic topic to cover. I was actually wondering the other day what would happen if I skipped the oiling part on my current restoration. Thanks for covering this. All the best!
I used to always get low amplitude rate after I serviced my watches, after watching your video I'm finally getting 200°+ amplitude. Didn't realize I was over oiling my watch
Interesting and very comprehensive. I thought that paying £35 a gallon for my car was expensive until I bought some 9010 at a discount and worked out its something like £28000 per gallon.
Great video! Very interesting to se what effect the amount of oil has on the amplitude and the speed of the movement. Thank you so mutch for doing this Experiment. Looking foreward to more videoes.
As a hobbyist, I can't tell you how much I appreciate these videos. It's been wonderful to have visual references coupled with a running narrative. Outstanding work, sir.
For some reason I came to wonder how watches were oiled, and thanks to you I got to see it in details!! Very satisfying and relaxing to watch, never thought I'd see nearly three quarters of an hour go this fast :D
Great to 'see' just what happens in any scenario. I recently picked up a book 'A practical guide to modern watch oiling' that I found to be educational and very helpful. Sorry for the AD but as we hobbyist know, getting good info can be tricky. Hope it helps some of you.
Just watched this , it has really helped me to know more about what to use . As I started servicing my own watches I only used a couple of oils 😯 now I know I will upgrade my oils and re service them again. Thanks , really enjoyed this one. 👏👏👊🏻
I am learning all the time (or trying to), so I really appreciate this, as I have over-oiled before - this is very good, thank you. I have a binocular microscope like yours, and I will apply what you have shown. It all looks really easy on the video, but it is not as easy as it looks in reality.
A tip for getting good oil less expensively when you're just starting out: Several vendors on Ali-Express sell sample kits. These kits come with 5 or so 0.5ml bottles with some (very cheap) oilers for around $30. Even with this tiny amount of oil you can oil dozens of movements. Most kits come with 9010B and 9104 at a minimum, but the other three oils can vary so be sure you know what you need so you order the right kit. Then as you run out of oil you can buy replacements in higher quantities (e.g. a 2ml bottle of 9010, for example) without feeling like you need to dump $200 on oil all at once.
This was very interesting! Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this tedious experiment. It's like Goldilocks... "This watch has toooo much lube. This watch doesn't have annnyyyy lube!! This watch is jussst right!" It's interesting to see how similar having no lube and having too much was, at first.
I am not very experienced with watches or clocks but have worked with locks for many years. At this point I dont know if I heard or read this or if it came about from my own experience. That is that with mechanical devices the goal is to make the machine work smoothly first and then add the lubrication. Of course there will be exceptions, but the point is to not rely on the lubrication to make a poorly running machine work well with lubrication. Then the purpose of the lubrication is to control the wear over time.
A watch is made with as little friction as possible so yes the oil is there to aid with wear control but also to make it run optimally. I can see massive jumps in amplitude oiling the balance jewels.
Paul Padilla yes the oil can run down axle etc and get on to parts like the hair spring. Equally oil will thicken over years so will show its effects sooner. Plus attract dirt
Great video, Mike. A fascinating experiment and the results strongly indicate the importance of careful oiling. I use Moebius 8200 instead of D5 and 8300 grease - I’d imagine that the results would be broadly similar. All the best.
Thanks very much I really enjoyed the video and thanks for all the effort as I said before I am only new to this hobby but I am taken it all in. I need more equipment before I start servicing any watches, I'll get there I do have a microscope the same as yours its a great addition and amazing what a difference it shows. Thanks again.
There is a big risk that the excess oil migrates to places like the hairspring or the heavier oils get on the palette fork or the escape wheel, and this can drastically affect the rate. I also suspect that once the various surfaces are oiled, and assuming they are oiled with the correct oil, it should run OK, assuming you are lucky enough to not have it migrate, but the excess will be a far greater dirt magnet, so it will almost certainly require servicing sooner, so perhaps it is not surprising that there wasn't that dramatic a difference between good oiling and chip shop fryer levels of oiling. I try to imagine the surface area of the part that needs oiling, and judge the amount of oil based on that, so obviously a large area needs more oil, and a small pivot needs less. I still tend to dramatically over do it on occasions, but I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it.
@JPS JPS .. thus violating the fundamental rules of conservation of mass perhaps, unless of course the oil suddenly and spontaneously turns in to energy, in which case you have far more pressing things to worry about than the lubrication of your wrist watch. The oil in a watch mechanism isn't going anywhere in a hurry. It wont evaporate, if that is what you are expecting, unless the watch heats up dramatically, in which case, perhaps my first observation applies. It wont be absorbed by the metal, as we are not using oilite bronze bearings here, this is all steel or brass, which are completely impervious to oils. The only place the excess can go is onto other surfaces, where it will either sit, nicely attracting dirt, or migrate further, perhaps to the hair spring.
Thank you for the big effort you put here. I'm still having trouble oiling the fork stones under the microscope using a black oiler (not the ergonomic, does it have a different point). I always have to take off a bit of oil using rodico but it still is too much. However I'm getting much better results than before, so not a big deal.
Agustin Aguilar pull through oiler out of the cup fast you get more oil. Slowly less. At 90 degrees on the end and at an angle on the side. As you can see I mess it up many times too . So small the pallet jewels
The extra drag caused by over oiling causes the loss of amplitude. The loss of amplitude causes the increase in rate. Similar to when the mainspring is in a lower state of wind.
Really useful. Always learning. Please, more test videos, they are very interesting. One idea for the next: you can show the difference between the accepted practice of not oiling the pallet fork pivots and lubricating them, and how are the results in the timegrafer. I´m not an expert but oiling the pivots it is supposed to affect very much the amplitude and will slow down the running, doesn´t it? In the other hand it is accepted to always lubricate the pallet jewels, right? In that case I guess the benefit is to reduce wear and increase the movement life time but it will not affect the running of the movement. You can make the test oiling the jewels and leaving them dry to illustrate if there is a difference in the timegrapher . Both test would be very interesting
Thanks for doing this video, I always wonder what the outcome would be if you did not oil or had too much, now we all know. That was fun to see it being done.
A drop in amplitude isn't a good thing and will affect accuracy as you go about your day. Cool videos thank you. You're helping me learn on old Seiko movements 😀
Could you theoretically get away with two oils and a braking grease for the mainspring barrel wall for say a ETA 2836 like Moebius 9010 and Synt-HP-1300 ?
I'm using 8000 and HP1300 but I also use KT-22 grease for the keyless works. However, I am working on vintage watches that run at 18,000 bph, the 2836 runs at 28,800 so you need to be using a high-performance oil on the pallet stones like 941. The high-beat movements are more demanding to work on, I like the vintage movements because they are more tolerant of beginning watchmakers like me.
It's handy to keep 3 automatic oilers, one with fine oil, one more viscous, and one with quartz watch oil. .They can be adjusted to dispence the correct amount of oil each time, and are quick and easy to use...although it does require some practice to get used to them.
Good evening, looking at your experiment to digress I understand bearings races generally should only be greased to 1/3 capacity with grease spread evenly, bearings then turn and do not skid in clog of grease causing friction and slower running. Although oiling imagine excess will do same, clogging causing resistance slowing movement. Droplet spread evenly on mating surfaces.
I'd think if you ensuring the pivots are well clean and smooth will give the best payback for the least amount of work and cost of tools.I think this could be a really cool video series. Wrong oil used on pivots. Like 1300 on escape wheel and fork pivots.Oiling both pallet stones, ect...
Thanks. A nice demonstration - even for Mr Bodger (Me). I have experimented on one of my Chinese clone 6497 watches which I lubricated with 10w 40 synthetic engine oil. It works very well and keeps time to about -20 seconds a day after a year of daily use. I realise this is iconoclastic, but the watch seems perfectly happy and is on my wrist 24/7. I REALLY appreciate questioning by experiment that you have shown here. Did you notice that on the time lapse the amplitude in the over oiled watch was around 220 degrees until it began to run down. I only mention this because we did not see what the amplitude was on the correctly oiled watch after 12 or so hours of running. I wonder if it reduced also, like the over oiled version.
Thanks, engine oil wow. Well I do often say that any oil is better than no oil. As for amplitude, I dont recall now but the experiment is a bit floored because its about how long the oil stays where it should and over years starts to solidify and stop the watch. I have fixed so many stopped watched by just giving them a service. Too much oil will run from where you have put it and could then effect other parts running. less is best is the moral of the story here. Thanks for watching.
Not sure to be honest. You would have to be accurate in its application and you could not submerge whole plates if you wanted to treat other fixed jewels. I just got fixadrop in a 30ml bottle as they now sell this complete with mess basket inside. Was still £30 I believe.
Great set of videos. I'd like to have a go at fixing my ETA mechanism and then reoiling. Had a look at cousins and to get tiny quantities of 9010, d5 and some non synthetic grease would cost more than £70. Clearly not economic. Which weight of fully synthetic motor oil could I use instead of 9010? (it's basically the same stuff but a bit thicker perhaps? I got 5l of fully synthetic 5w30 for £19.95, and as that has to perform at much higher temperature and pressure than watch oil I'm expecting the latter should be no pricier.).
Oil is such a touchy subject in watchmaking. My view is any oil is better than no oil. watch oils are extremely expensive. Moebius do one called 8000 which is £10 and non synthetic which will do jewels and low friction places. D5 there used to be a seller on ebay that decanted the big bottles into much smaller ones and sold much more affordably. Remember that you really dont need much oil. watches are designed to have the least amount of friction possible so too much oil has a damming effect. If they are your watches then its up to you what oil you want ot use.
@@MyRetroWatches Well thank you for that reply. According to the Moebius catalogue, D5 is a mixture of mineral oil and refined vegetable oil, so the non-synthetic stuff hardly sounds high-tech and gives the impression they went round to the chippies in Zurich looking for old chip fat. They say the 9010 is based on ether and aliphatic alcohol, but don’t say what the HP1300/9104 is made of, though its density at 0.85kg/l is very close to polyalphaolefin. Using ASTM D341 to calculate the kinematic viscosity at 20 and 40C, the closest motor oil to 9010 I think will be 5W30, which will be ~10% more viscous at 20C. For 9104 I will use 20W50 semi-synthetic as I don’t have anything heavier. For 8301 hard grease I will use standard lithium grease. Marginal cost £0. For my timegrapher I’ve removed the sounder from an old smoke alarm and plugged it into a PC running ‘watch o scope’, works fine, marginal cost £0. If I muck it up - which seems likely - then this watch is getting a quartz mechanism. I’m confident that I can hardly make more of a mess of it than Watches of Switzerland Ltd did in 1979 when they managed to scratch the inside of the sapphire crystal.
The biggest problem with over oiling is that it will, over a short period of time, leave the pivot dry and allow component wear to occur. The excess oil will spread, down the staff or across the plate. Then capillary action will draw the rest of the oil out of the pivot.
if you like experimenting, i highly recommend you to try a mix of Teflon/Wax/Thin oil. you can buy a Teflon/Wax bag and mix it (warm) with thin oil for watches. until you get a very thin cream texture when cold. almost liquid. easy to pick up and apply. the best cold lubricant for any metal known to man. drag is significantly reduced. spread less and doesn't dry as fast. highly used in cycling for chains per exemple. they gain a lot of drag reduction.
@@MyRetroWatches btw this video reminds me of Seiko/Hattori movements 4R/NH35 and company. new out of the box, you get 250/270° amplitude for a good one. if you disassemble it and relubricate it with high standards, you get close to 300° amplitude. do you find that nomal form a house like Seiko? even if they are cheap, they could make them better and have a better image. because they're not bad! they are just poorly assembled at factory. which leads people to avoid these movements. at least conoisseurs.
Great video. I’d be interested to see what happens if you come back to an over lubricated watch after 6 months or more. Once the oil has spread everywhere it would make a big difference
Possibly would take longer than that. once the oils get old they can get sticky or even attract small particles of dirt inside which ultimately would have an effect on the performance.
Brilliant video Mike!👍😀 Just what us newbies needed. Thanks for the great work and keep it up. I have an idea for another video for you, where should I contact you?
I like using my black Bergeon oiler for most things, it doesn't flood like the yellow or red does and my yellow one is now doing lume duty. I do have one of them oil pens but find it too copious so just squirt a dab onto a bit of clean plastic and using Del boys adage "a little dab will do yer" as can always add more if need be but taking it off can be tedious lol Put a new vid up last night on my channel, I got this £15 joblot and my it was the gift that kept giving with the star of the show a two tone Accurist GM10 beauty and just so much good stuff and most importantly extra bracelets as I keep running out hehe
Hello, love your channel. Speaking about oiling and maybe too much oiling. I have a watch with the DG2813 movement, I have been told the Miyota 8215 is a direct replacement. Unfortunately, it is not hackable. Will the Seiko NH35 work as well? What do you recommend? Thank you.
Sorry but I cant really advise you. I have no experience with any of these movements. The NH does have hacking and manual wind I believe but then would the dial fit right and that date windows line up with the wheels. Also would it fit the case, and would you need a movement ring. Sorry.
What is the use of that adjustment on the spring the "+" and "-"? It has no effect? I thought with the use of timegrapher you can adjust it as precise as possible. Hope you can read this. Please do not close your mind on restoring/repairing rolex as well though their parts are expensive. Really liked that microscopic details.💥👍✌
Your have the regulator arm which adjusts the rate so you can slow down and speed up. The other is the stud. Some are fixed Which makes adjustment difficult. Others move and this is to adjust the beat error. Only needs tiny adjustment. Each adjustment will show on the Timegrapher
Mike, I know this video is two years old, but this topic never goes out-of-style. May I mention a grease/lubricant I like when lubricating such things as the keyless works?. I know you like Molykote which I also use on occasion, but I mainly use one called _KT-22 microlubricant_ It's a red grease made for watches and other such small mechanisms. Pretty good s**t. Just a thought. I don't know if they have it in the UK or not, but I buy my watch supplies off of an American company named Esslinger. It is very reasonably priced.
I’ve actually moved away from molykote and now use a Seiko S4 grease. It’s black , you can see me use it (badly) in my bullhead assembly video as I bought it for that watch. I do find applying is not easy but the grease itself is very good. Molykote if you open a watch up a few months later seems to have disappeared…
@@MyRetroWatches Cool. I'll remember that. I have all the grease I need for the time being, but I'll keep the Seiko grease in mind. Mike, you're a good egg. You respond to questions and leave comments. There is another very popular watch repair channel with ~500,000 subscribers and he never answers any question or comment...EVER. I have watched piles of his videos and have never seen one comment or reply he left anywhere on any of them. Not a good way to be. But you are a good guy who loves this hobby, interacting with folks, teaching and learning. God Bless and good egg!
@@wildernessofzinn17 I know the channel. He was smaller than me last year.. I envy his success on this platform as he is now able to do it full time and will he making serious return from it. Done in two years what it’s taken me 5 so far to get to this stage. I will never understand how this platform works but I guess some people want the polished performance and super edited videos over my home made “this is how I do it” approach. My goal is 100k subs as I will feel I have made it on the platform. This will most likely take me another 5 years of hard work. I enjoy the comments and like to reply and help where I can. It’s the reason I started in the first place to show people it’s possible to do this as a hobby. Your comment here is really appreciated so thank you.
I started an experiment six years ago on my Seagul M177 automatic. I stripped and cleaned it and then oiled the whole thing with two stroke oil. It keeps time perfectly - varying by under five seconds a day and I never touched it since. It is worn and operated about half the week. I have now used the same treatment on three Seagul 6497 clones with the same results. They work fine. Am I an iconoclast? Yes. I just can't bring myself to pay £20 for one cl of fancy oil and smell bullshit when people tell me that's what I must do or my watches won't work.
The oil is a real contentious issue for us hobbyists . Far too expensive for what it is and then they slap use by dates on them. I have to say I’ve had a bottle of 9010 for 3 years and barely used half. I’m that time I’ve done 100s watches . So for the price it’s good. D5 on the other hand is crazy money but fortunately there is an eBay seller rebottling it into small vials and selling much cheaper. My rule of thumb is thin oil for jewels , thicker oil for hi friction and greases for keyless so they stay put in place. It’s time that will test oil. After 10 years or if it’s not used or too much has been applied it will eventually start to gum up and hurt performance. Watches are made to run with as least friction as possible without oil . So even no oil the thing will run and perform okay just that the parts will wear quicker.
@@MyRetroWatches Thanks for the considered reply and for the video. IT was most interesting to see the erratic performance from the watch with no oiling. I did wonder if the over oiled watch would have had better amplitude if you'd wound it up - I think you said the spring had run down when you came back to it. I only use synthetic oil which will not gum up. Thanks again.
I guess I am not doing it right. Right now I am learning on old pocket watches. The reason I looking for service manuals is it shows all the parts as it comes apart. The way it shows me where a part goes if I forget. Besides may need to order parts by original number.
So I’m on the journey of comfortable vision and working distance/posture. Do you ultimately need a microscope and if so can you recommend a good entry level one?
I do not work under a scope with tools and do not recommend you do. I use two scope one an optical and one a digital. The digital I did a full review on recently. To work on watches you should use either a optivisor or loupes because you have then plenty of access for tools plus some peripheral vision. If you are new to the hobby then you will have "ping" moments where parts fly out of your tweezers. On a scope you will have no idea of where they went and in which direction. using loupes for a visor you will. I just inspect and oil under either of my microscopes.
Have my videos have helped you? why not support the channel in some way
You can make a one off/ monthy donation here in only one click: www.buymeacoffee.com/MyRetroWatches
If you would like to purchase any tools & equipment then please see my Amazon affiliate & eBay (I do earn a small commission from any sales.) Thank you.
Link: Link: myretrowatches.co.uk/tool-sale-links/
If you would like to buy any of my T-Shirts then please look here: teespring.com/stores/my-retro-watches
My Retro Watches have you recived my email i cant answer your reply on my old ipad so i had to go around the problem this way
I’m a newbie, and learning, such videos are treasures for people like me ! Thank you to spending time and share with us! Great job
Thanks for watching!
Here here . Or is it hear hear maybe.
I already kinda knew what happenes when you don't oil and over oil a watch... But nevertheless it was was very interesting to watch someone elses take on this topic especially because oiling is so difficult to get right when you're new to the hobby!
This was extremely useful, thank you! If I may venture a guess, when you over-oiled - the oil probably went on to the hairspring and sort of glued its coils together a bit. This would make the hairspring effectively shorter - the effect is not dissimilar to the one you get when the hairspring is magnetized. And this would result in the significant gaining of the mechanism.
I'm new to wrist watch/pocket watch repair and I love your videos because of how carefully you do your comparisons/analysis. Keep up the great work.
Thanks, will do!
I've been looking for this kind of demonstration, I guess you are the first posting this oilings behaviour. Thanks.
This channel never disappoints. Fantastic topic to cover. I was actually wondering the other day what would happen if I skipped the oiling part on my current restoration. Thanks for covering this. All the best!
Much appreciated!
I used to always get low amplitude rate after I serviced my watches, after watching your video I'm finally getting 200°+ amplitude.
Didn't realize I was over oiling my watch
That is awesome! glad this helped. Its amazing the effect of oil, especially on shock jewels.
Interesting and very comprehensive. I thought that paying £35 a gallon for my car was expensive until I bought some 9010 at a discount and worked out its something like £28000 per gallon.
I’ve always been curious about the effects of oiling but too lazy to experiment for myself. Thanks for the video!
Great video! Very interesting to se what effect the amount of oil has on the amplitude and the speed of the movement. Thank you so mutch for doing this Experiment. Looking foreward to more videoes.
As a hobbyist, I can't tell you how much I appreciate these videos. It's been wonderful to have visual references coupled with a running narrative. Outstanding work, sir.
For some reason I came to wonder how watches were oiled, and thanks to you I got to see it in details!! Very satisfying and relaxing to watch, never thought I'd see nearly three quarters of an hour go this fast :D
Thank You for taking time to do this, I myself been wondering about this for a long while now and this video overwhelmingly satisficed my curiosity.
Glad you enjoyed it. was a difficult one to film but seems to be worth it.
Great to 'see' just what happens in any scenario. I recently picked up a book 'A practical guide to modern watch oiling' that I found to be educational and very helpful. Sorry for the AD but as we hobbyist know, getting good info can be tricky. Hope it helps some of you.
Just watched this , it has really helped me to know more about what to use . As I started servicing my own watches I only used a couple of oils 😯 now I know I will upgrade my oils and re service them again. Thanks , really enjoyed this one. 👏👏👊🏻
I am learning all the time (or trying to), so I really appreciate this, as I have over-oiled before - this is very good, thank you. I have a binocular microscope like yours, and I will apply what you have shown. It all looks really easy on the video, but it is not as easy as it looks in reality.
Very informative, nice too see the proper amount of oil is essential to a proper running watch.
Thanks for the video.
A tip for getting good oil less expensively when you're just starting out: Several vendors on Ali-Express sell sample kits. These kits come with 5 or so 0.5ml bottles with some (very cheap) oilers for around $30. Even with this tiny amount of oil you can oil dozens of movements. Most kits come with 9010B and 9104 at a minimum, but the other three oils can vary so be sure you know what you need so you order the right kit.
Then as you run out of oil you can buy replacements in higher quantities (e.g. a 2ml bottle of 9010, for example) without feeling like you need to dump $200 on oil all at once.
Very informative. Thanks. The 9010 is my default oil for almost everything except mainsprings and mainspring arbors. Great stuff.
Thanks. 9010 is the staple oil although D5 is important too.
Enjoyed the video! Still have a lot to learn! I would probably “over oil” and have residue throughout the movement !
This was very interesting! Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this tedious experiment. It's like Goldilocks... "This watch has toooo much lube. This watch doesn't have annnyyyy lube!! This watch is jussst right!" It's interesting to see how similar having no lube and having too much was, at first.
I am not very experienced with watches or clocks but have worked with locks for many years. At this point I dont know if I heard or read this or if it came about from my own experience. That is that with mechanical devices the goal is to make the machine work smoothly first and then add the lubrication. Of course there will be exceptions, but the point is to not rely on the lubrication to make a poorly running machine work well with lubrication. Then the purpose of the lubrication is to control the wear over time.
To add to my post, over oiling in watches can cause migration of the oil away from the intended target.
A watch is made with as little friction as possible so yes the oil is there to aid with wear control but also to make it run optimally. I can see massive jumps in amplitude oiling the balance jewels.
Informative and good to see the oiling done on camera!
Great video! I imagine the issues with over oiling would not show up until the oil wicks away from the friction surfaces.
Paul Padilla yes the oil can run down axle etc and get on to parts like the hair spring. Equally oil will thicken over years so will show its effects sooner. Plus attract dirt
Always a pleasure to watch your progress in this hobby, have a nice day
Thank you Sir. Progress is very slow but steady.
Great video, Mike. A fascinating experiment and the results strongly indicate the importance of careful oiling. I use Moebius 8200 instead of D5 and 8300 grease - I’d imagine that the results would be broadly similar. All the best.
GREAT topic!! Thanks. I DID learn something! I learned that i need to redo some of my watches!
Thanks very much I really enjoyed the video and thanks for all the effort as I said before I am only new to this hobby but I am taken it all in. I need more equipment before I start servicing any watches, I'll get there I do have a microscope the same as yours its a great addition and amazing what a difference it shows. Thanks again.
There is a big risk that the excess oil migrates to places like the hairspring or the heavier oils get on the palette fork or the escape wheel, and this can drastically affect the rate.
I also suspect that once the various surfaces are oiled, and assuming they are oiled with the correct oil, it should run OK, assuming you are lucky enough to not have it migrate, but the excess will be a far greater dirt magnet, so it will almost certainly require servicing sooner, so perhaps it is not surprising that there wasn't that dramatic a difference between good oiling and chip shop fryer levels of oiling.
I try to imagine the surface area of the part that needs oiling, and judge the amount of oil based on that, so obviously a large area needs more oil, and a small pivot needs less. I still tend to dramatically over do it on occasions, but I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it.
@JPS JPS .. thus violating the fundamental rules of conservation of mass perhaps, unless of course the oil suddenly and spontaneously turns in to energy, in which case you have far more pressing things to worry about than the lubrication of your wrist watch.
The oil in a watch mechanism isn't going anywhere in a hurry.
It wont evaporate, if that is what you are expecting, unless the watch heats up dramatically, in which case, perhaps my first observation applies.
It wont be absorbed by the metal, as we are not using oilite bronze bearings here, this is all steel or brass, which are completely impervious to oils. The only place the excess can go is onto other surfaces, where it will either sit, nicely attracting dirt, or migrate further, perhaps to the hair spring.
Great video. Thanks for showing. It helps me a lot as a starting matchmaker hobbyist.
Glad to help
Lovely cabinet!
That was an interesting experiment and fun to watch. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for the big effort you put here. I'm still having trouble oiling the fork stones under the microscope using a black oiler (not the ergonomic, does it have a different point). I always have to take off a bit of oil using rodico but it still is too much. However I'm getting much better results than before, so not a big deal.
Agustin Aguilar pull through oiler out of the cup fast you get more oil. Slowly less. At 90 degrees on the end and at an angle on the side. As you can see I mess it up many times too . So small the pallet jewels
The extra drag caused by over oiling causes the loss of amplitude. The loss of amplitude causes the increase in rate. Similar to when the mainspring is in a lower state of wind.
Very practical video, thanks 👍
Very interesting demonstration; thanks!
I love this experiment. Great video. Thank you for sharing it !
Really useful. Always learning. Please, more test videos, they are very interesting. One idea for the next: you can show the difference between the accepted practice of not oiling the pallet fork pivots and lubricating them, and how are the results in the timegrafer. I´m not an expert but oiling the pivots it is supposed to affect very much the amplitude and will slow down the running, doesn´t it? In the other hand it is accepted to always lubricate the pallet jewels, right? In that case I guess the benefit is to reduce wear and increase the movement life time but it will not affect the running of the movement. You can make the test oiling the jewels and leaving them dry to illustrate if there is a difference in the timegrapher . Both test would be very interesting
This is fantastic work! Thank you, thank you!
Thanks for doing this video, I always wonder what the outcome would be if you did not oil or had too much, now we all know. That was fun to see it being done.
A drop in amplitude isn't a good thing and will affect accuracy as you go about your day. Cool videos thank you. You're helping me learn on old Seiko movements 😀
Very nice tests. Thanks a lot for It.
Great stuff Mike thank you for making this video!
one of the better videos. new subscriber and I'm going to watch that again and try the experiment myself. dig the music too! thanks buddy.
Thanks Mike. This was SUPER informative. A really good study
Watch Me Build It thank you
Great experiment Mike!
Really interesting. A little goes a long way.
Awesome video, thank you for taking the time to make it
Great work Mike Great.
Awsome experience you gote there! Thank you for the entertaining!
Awesome video! Thanks for taking the time to do this experiment.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Could you theoretically get away with two oils and a braking grease for the mainspring barrel wall for say a ETA 2836 like Moebius 9010 and Synt-HP-1300 ?
I'm using 8000 and HP1300 but I also use KT-22 grease for the keyless works. However, I am working on vintage watches that run at 18,000 bph, the 2836 runs at 28,800 so you need to be using a high-performance oil on the pallet stones like 941. The high-beat movements are more demanding to work on, I like the vintage movements because they are more tolerant of beginning watchmakers like me.
Great video Mike, cheers
Thanks mate
It's handy to keep 3 automatic oilers, one with fine oil, one more viscous, and one with quartz watch oil. .They can be adjusted to dispence the correct amount of oil each time, and are quick and easy to use...although it does require some practice to get used to them.
I have the Bergeon 1A that I use from time to time but don’t really get on with auto Oiler’s that much .
24:50 amazing how this reminds of a heart
Good evening, looking at your experiment to digress I understand bearings races generally should only be greased to 1/3 capacity with grease spread evenly, bearings then turn and do not skid in clog of grease causing friction and slower running. Although oiling imagine excess will do same, clogging causing resistance slowing movement. Droplet spread evenly on mating surfaces.
As a hobbyist I use 9010, 9104 and KT22.
exelente trabajo, muy educativo , le agradesco mucho., un saludo desde Chile.
I'd think if you ensuring the pivots are well clean and smooth will give the best payback for the least amount of work and cost of tools.I think this could be a really cool video series. Wrong oil used on pivots. Like 1300 on escape wheel and fork pivots.Oiling both pallet stones, ect...
Thanks. A nice demonstration - even for Mr Bodger (Me). I have experimented on one of my Chinese clone 6497 watches which I lubricated with 10w 40 synthetic engine oil. It works very well and keeps time to about -20 seconds a day after a year of daily use. I realise this is iconoclastic, but the watch seems perfectly happy and is on my wrist 24/7. I REALLY appreciate questioning by experiment that you have shown here. Did you notice that on the time lapse the amplitude in the over oiled watch was around 220 degrees until it began to run down. I only mention this because we did not see what the amplitude was on the correctly oiled watch after 12 or so hours of running. I wonder if it reduced also, like the over oiled version.
Thanks, engine oil wow. Well I do often say that any oil is better than no oil. As for amplitude, I dont recall now but the experiment is a bit floored because its about how long the oil stays where it should and over years starts to solidify and stop the watch. I have fixed so many stopped watched by just giving them a service. Too much oil will run from where you have put it and could then effect other parts running. less is best is the moral of the story here. Thanks for watching.
Great video!
Where did you get your big yellow watch parts holder?
Cousins uk
Thanks@@MyRetroWatches
Really loving the videos, learning lots from you. Thanks.
Really interesting video, thanks for sharing
Great information, I wonder what would happen if you tried using " dry slide" moly treatment ? That way it would never migrate
Not sure to be honest. You would have to be accurate in its application and you could not submerge whole plates if you wanted to treat other fixed jewels.
I just got fixadrop in a 30ml bottle as they now sell this complete with mess basket inside. Was still £30 I believe.
Brilliant video, thanks.
Thank you so much!... this is extremely useful for me!
Great set of videos. I'd like to have a go at fixing my ETA mechanism and then reoiling. Had a look at cousins and to get tiny quantities of 9010, d5 and some non synthetic grease would cost more than £70. Clearly not economic. Which weight of fully synthetic motor oil could I use instead of 9010? (it's basically the same stuff but a bit thicker perhaps? I got 5l of fully synthetic 5w30 for £19.95, and as that has to perform at much higher temperature and pressure than watch oil I'm expecting the latter should be no pricier.).
Oil is such a touchy subject in watchmaking. My view is any oil is better than no oil. watch oils are extremely expensive. Moebius do one called 8000 which is £10 and non synthetic which will do jewels and low friction places. D5 there used to be a seller on ebay that decanted the big bottles into much smaller ones and sold much more affordably. Remember that you really dont need much oil. watches are designed to have the least amount of friction possible so too much oil has a damming effect. If they are your watches then its up to you what oil you want ot use.
@@MyRetroWatches Well thank you for that reply. According to the Moebius catalogue, D5 is a mixture of mineral oil and refined vegetable oil, so the non-synthetic stuff hardly sounds high-tech and gives the impression they went round to the chippies in Zurich looking for old chip fat. They say the 9010 is based on ether and aliphatic alcohol, but don’t say what the HP1300/9104 is made of, though its density at 0.85kg/l is very close to polyalphaolefin. Using ASTM D341 to calculate the kinematic viscosity at 20 and 40C, the closest motor oil to 9010 I think will be 5W30, which will be ~10% more viscous at 20C. For 9104 I will use 20W50 semi-synthetic as I don’t have anything heavier. For 8301 hard grease I will use standard lithium grease. Marginal cost £0. For my timegrapher I’ve removed the sounder from an old smoke alarm and plugged it into a PC running ‘watch o scope’, works fine, marginal cost £0. If I muck it up - which seems likely - then this watch is getting a quartz mechanism. I’m confident that I can hardly make more of a mess of it than Watches of Switzerland Ltd did in 1979 when they managed to scratch the inside of the sapphire crystal.
The biggest problem with over oiling is that it will, over a short period of time, leave the pivot dry and allow component wear to occur. The excess oil will spread, down the staff or across the plate. Then capillary action will draw the rest of the oil out of the pivot.
What is the tune called, during the over oiling sequence?
if you like experimenting, i highly recommend you to try a mix of Teflon/Wax/Thin oil. you can buy a Teflon/Wax bag and mix it (warm) with thin oil for watches. until you get a very thin cream texture when cold. almost liquid. easy to pick up and apply. the best cold lubricant for any metal known to man. drag is significantly reduced. spread less and doesn't dry as fast. highly used in cycling for chains per exemple. they gain a lot of drag reduction.
JayB29 This sounds interesting. Might have to look into that one thanks
@@MyRetroWatches btw this video reminds me of Seiko/Hattori movements 4R/NH35 and company. new out of the box, you get 250/270° amplitude for a good one. if you disassemble it and relubricate it with high standards, you get close to 300° amplitude. do you find that nomal form a house like Seiko?
even if they are cheap, they could make them better and have a better image. because they're not bad! they are just poorly assembled at factory. which leads people to avoid these movements. at least conoisseurs.
Great video. I’d be interested to see what happens if you come back to an over lubricated watch after 6 months or more. Once the oil has spread everywhere it would make a big difference
Possibly would take longer than that. once the oils get old they can get sticky or even attract small particles of dirt inside which ultimately would have an effect on the performance.
Amazing, thankyou for this!
Brilliant video Mike!👍😀 Just what us newbies needed.
Thanks for the great work and keep it up.
I have an idea for another video for you, where should I contact you?
Jon Cooke I have too many ideas for videos believe me . Michael@myretrowatches.com
So the DG2813 hand size differ from the Miyota 8215?
Just in time, just received my oiling kit and Im going to oil a watch tomorrow.
h3kufc good luck
Your the Boss. Thank you so much
I actually never oil the mainspring, just grease the barrel walls if automatic. There is no friction on the spiral to lubricate, i think
What was the grease you used? You refuted to it as Molly coat. What is is it exactly?
It is molykote
To be more precise it is Molykote DX paste
I like using my black Bergeon oiler for most things, it doesn't flood like the yellow or red does and my yellow one is now doing lume duty. I do have one of them oil pens but find it too copious so just squirt a dab onto a bit of clean plastic and using Del boys adage "a little dab will do yer" as can always add more if need be but taking it off can be tedious lol Put a new vid up last night on my channel, I got this £15 joblot and my it was the gift that kept giving with the star of the show a two tone Accurist GM10 beauty and just so much good stuff and most importantly extra bracelets as I keep running out hehe
Excellent, thank you very much.....!
Very good Video! Thanks
michael, what is that grey gum you're using to clean up the excess? i notice you also use it to rest watch hands, etc.
It’s called Rodico , grey is the premium , green is standard.
Grey is just a bit more sticky
I’ve been reading about silicone oil (viscosity 50) as an oil,for watches. Will it be ok for Accutron/Accuquartz watches?
I use Moebius 9010 on my 218 bulova all the time.
Hello, love your channel. Speaking about oiling and maybe too much oiling. I have a watch with the DG2813 movement, I have been told the Miyota 8215 is a direct replacement. Unfortunately, it is not hackable. Will the Seiko NH35 work as well? What do you recommend? Thank you.
Sorry but I cant really advise you. I have no experience with any of these movements. The NH does have hacking and manual wind I believe but then would the dial fit right and that date windows line up with the wheels. Also would it fit the case, and would you need a movement ring. Sorry.
Excellent
What is the use of that adjustment on the spring the "+" and "-"? It has no effect? I thought with the use of timegrapher you can adjust it as precise as possible. Hope you can read this. Please do not close your mind on restoring/repairing rolex as well though their parts are expensive. Really liked that microscopic details.💥👍✌
Your have the regulator arm which adjusts the rate so you can slow down and speed up. The other is the stud. Some are fixed Which makes adjustment difficult. Others move and this is to adjust the beat error. Only needs tiny adjustment.
Each adjustment will show on the Timegrapher
@@MyRetroWatches oh my I think have to study more 7🙀
Really a great video, unfortunately you haven't test oiling on the 2824 mvt. I would like to see that on a hight beat. Regards.
شكرآ لك على هذه المعلومات القيمة 👍
GREAT VIDEO! 💚💚💚
the over-oiling lol
it made me physically uncomfortable lol
the part where you press the jewel and the oil squishes around : )
Thanks
Great video
Thank you for the great demonstration! That microscope seems like a game changer, might have to pick one of those up :)
Mike, I know this video is two years old, but this topic never goes out-of-style. May I mention a grease/lubricant I like when lubricating such things as the keyless works?. I know you like Molykote which I also use on occasion, but I mainly use one called _KT-22 microlubricant_ It's a red grease made for watches and other such small mechanisms. Pretty good s**t. Just a thought. I don't know if they have it in the UK or not, but I buy my watch supplies off of an American company named Esslinger. It is very reasonably priced.
I’ve actually moved away from molykote and now use a Seiko S4 grease. It’s black , you can see me use it (badly) in my bullhead assembly video as I bought it for that watch. I do find applying is not easy but the grease itself is very good. Molykote if you open a watch up a few months later seems to have disappeared…
@@MyRetroWatches Cool. I'll remember that. I have all the grease I need for the time being, but I'll keep the Seiko grease in mind. Mike, you're a good egg. You respond to questions and leave comments. There is another very popular watch repair channel with ~500,000 subscribers and he never answers any question or comment...EVER. I have watched piles of his videos and have never seen one comment or reply he left anywhere on any of them. Not a good way to be.
But you are a good guy who loves this hobby, interacting with folks, teaching and learning. God Bless and good egg!
@@wildernessofzinn17 I know the channel. He was smaller than me last year.. I envy his success on this platform as he is now able to do it full time and will he making serious return from it. Done in two years what it’s taken me 5 so far to get to this stage.
I will never understand how this platform works but I guess some people want the polished performance and super edited videos over my home made “this is how I do it” approach.
My goal is 100k subs as I will feel I have made it on the platform. This will most likely take me another 5 years of hard work.
I enjoy the comments and like to reply and help where I can. It’s the reason I started in the first place to show people it’s possible to do this as a hobby.
Your comment here is really appreciated so thank you.
I started an experiment six years ago on my Seagul M177 automatic. I stripped and cleaned it and then oiled the whole thing with two stroke oil. It keeps time perfectly - varying by under five seconds a day and I never touched it since. It is worn and operated about half the week. I have now used the same treatment on three Seagul 6497 clones with the same results. They work fine. Am I an iconoclast? Yes. I just can't bring myself to pay £20 for one cl of fancy oil and smell bullshit when people tell me that's what I must do or my watches won't work.
The oil is a real contentious issue for us hobbyists . Far too expensive for what it is and then they slap use by dates on them. I have to say I’ve had a bottle of 9010 for 3 years and barely used half. I’m that time I’ve done 100s watches . So for the price it’s good. D5 on the other hand is crazy money but fortunately there is an eBay seller rebottling it into small vials and selling much cheaper.
My rule of thumb is thin oil for jewels , thicker oil for hi friction and greases for keyless so they stay put in place.
It’s time that will test oil. After 10 years or if it’s not used or too much has been applied it will eventually start to gum up and hurt performance.
Watches are made to run with as least friction as possible without oil . So even no oil the thing will run and perform okay just that the parts will wear quicker.
@@MyRetroWatches Thanks for the considered reply and for the video. IT was most interesting to see the erratic performance from the watch with no oiling. I did wonder if the over oiled watch would have had better amplitude if you'd wound it up - I think you said the spring had run down when you came back to it. I only use synthetic oil which will not gum up. Thanks again.
Thank you!
Where do you get the service manuals?
anywhere on the internet if you Google. I do have a selection on my own site in the "reference" tab. www.myretrowatches.co.uk
I guess I am not doing it right. Right now I am learning on old pocket watches. The reason I looking for service manuals is it shows all the parts as it comes apart. The way it shows me where a part goes if I forget. Besides may need to order parts by original number.
@@bobpowell2058 manuals are not available for every movement and I would not know at all about pocket watches.
Hi, what microscope do you use?
So I’m on the journey of comfortable vision and working distance/posture. Do you ultimately need a microscope and if so can you recommend a good entry level one?
Sorry, just seen you tool page
How do you fit screwdrivers etc under the microscope on top the movement? A video or pic of your setup would be massively useful
I do not work under a scope with tools and do not recommend you do. I use two scope one an optical and one a digital. The digital I did a full review on recently. To work on watches you should use either a optivisor or loupes because you have then plenty of access for tools plus some peripheral vision. If you are new to the hobby then you will have "ping" moments where parts fly out of your tweezers. On a scope you will have no idea of where they went and in which direction. using loupes for a visor you will.
I just inspect and oil under either of my microscopes.