Should You MK3.5??? - Prusa MK3S+ to MK3.5 Upgrade - Prusa Upgrade - Chris's Basement - 2024
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- Is the Prusa MK3S+ to MK3.5 upgrade right for you? We did the upgrade and compared the results so you don't have to!
00:00 Introduction
01:12 MK3S+ Overview
02:16 MK3.5 Overview
03:56 New Mainboard
06:32 Test Case
08:29 Print Speed
11:13 Results
14:44 Bonus Features
18:05 Conclusion
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Short answer yes! The upgrade is well worth it in my opinion, brought a new life to my printer
That's great! Thanks for watching
Upgraded my MK3S MMU2S that was equipped with a Revo hotend to the MK3.5 MMU3 and never looked back. IMHO worth the upgrade.
Thanks!
Or perhaps we should instead add a $15 Raspberry Pi 02W and put Klipper on the mk3 (or re-purpose the one that was already there running Octoprint). Then the 8 bit Einsy board is fine and we get all those new Klipper features like input shaping and all the existing cabling works perfectly. We get a faster network, too, the network speed on the MK4 and XL is not up to the level of even the lowest Pi. Just another option to consider. If you want the best Prusa experience the MK4 and XL are where that is going to be. But the best MK3 might be running Klipper. :)
Definitly a good alternative. Or you might use an external pad with klipper to controll multiple mk3s+.
However, if it comes to ease of use, imho the 3.5 upgrade is an valid upgrade alternative. Esp. if you also want to add the MMU3.
The advantage of the mk3.5 upgrade is everything is dialed in by Prusa. Esp. between Prusa Slicer and the mk3.5. On klipper you might spend more time to optimize profiles. Setting up an MMU is even more tricky. Which is O.K. for tinkering as a hobby. However, if you primary want to print, the mk3.5 upgrade is preferable.
However, the Prusa Mini Board/Display (+external Mosfet for the bed) might be an alternative. As both board and firmware are open source an both mk4 and Prusa share the same firmware base now, you might edit the firmware for the mini hardware to the mk3 values, if you do not need the MMU. You get board+display for the mini for about $70 on Aliexpress...
Does the zero 2w have the processing power for input shaper calculations, or am I thinking of the camera that it has issue with.
@@rembrantsworkshop It doesn’t have problems with neither of those. The Zero 2 W is enough to run 2 Voron trident with input shaper and webcams in both(maybe more, but those 2 are the ones I’m currently using) . The original Zero is the one that struggles because of the cpu. The 2W is basically Rpi 3b with less RAM. The original one was really underpowered.
@@valen961 ah thank you.
@@rembrantsworkshop The Pi 02W is basically a Pi3 but with half the memory and 70% of the CPU clock and 1 USB instead of 4. Cameras are said to be fine but fancy graphing software for setting up input shaping might be better run elsewhere. The 02W's are commonly used for Klipper or Octoprint and are a major step up from the old Pi 0W in processing performance due to quadcore vs single core.
Again, thank you so very much Chris for the work and time put in helping us, the 3D printing community, with your content. I was on the fence for this upgrade to my MK3S+, but thanks to your input, I'm sold. I do have a RPi 4 plugged to my Prusa and that upgrade really helps.
Happy to help! Thanks for watching
As always thanks for a great video
Thanks for watching!
I recently purchased a second used 3S and am thinking of upgrading it. Thanks for the info.
Glad I could help! Thanks for watching
The update to 3.5 is really impressive. I was very pleased after the first prints on mine!!!
I'm glad you are happy with it! Thanks
Likewise !
I also was impressed with the first prints on the 3.5, thanks for inspiring me to do that with your build.
Thanks Sergio! See you Saturday?
The loss of crash detection on my MK3.9 has been really detrimental to the reliablity of my machine. I print pretty much exclusively in PC-CF which can blob up and crash detection had saved the print many times for me. I wish they would give us that option back even if we have to disable input shaping, I would gladly do it to get my reliability back.
I hope that gets added back soon.
Nice solid informative video. Love the classical music! I am running my MK3s+ with a Pi3 3 running Repetier Server Pro. Ever think of doing a Repetier video? I have had zero problems since switching from OctoPrint.
I have reached out but, I haven't heard anything back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well done Chris.
Thanks Zimmy!
I love your channel it's easy to understand the content! Could you do one on running 4 printers of 1 pi 4 4gb? I have 4 printers that I need to setup for wireless to run them from.
Thank you! I have done these before, check this one out. th-cam.com/video/nDwW3eNxp2k/w-d-xo.html
@@ChrisRiley Thanks for the link, it was great. I forgot to tell you that I am running Mainsail not Octoprint. Is the installation process the same using Kiauh?
Yes, same process, just select which one you want.
I upgraded to the 3.5 and it was a great move. I kept the nylon lock nut modification for the bed and used the bed mesh output in Octoprint to dial it in again. The Prusa bed level plugin didn't work with the new board, hence the method I used. The print quality is much improved and the little bit of fiddling around that was sometimes required for the first layer is not something I have to do anymore. The primary reason I opted for the 3.5 vs the 3.9 was because I previously installed the Revo 6 hotend and wanted to keep using it.
I totally get it! That Revo is a great hotend
You forgot a major feature. Object Cancel. It was rolled out on the Mini as well. On my Mini, i had a plate full of small parts. 1 detached and proceeded to take out the next one. I paused the print and cancelled the 2 objects and then resumed the rest. For people with a print farm this is a huge added feature. Now that the MMU3 is supported by 3.5, this is on my list as future upgrade.
That is true, that is an awesome feature. I'm sure I forgot a lot of them.
Nice video. I've got a RPi 4 running octoprint and Obico, and the whole thing is on a UPS, so I've got a lot of sunk cost. The faster/better with input shaping is intriguing, but $250 looks like a lot of money on top of what I've got now.....
Thanks! I hear that, with some setups, like the one you list, I wouldn't mess with success.
I love the upgrade to MK3.5. Screen and overall interface is awesome. Even with touch now, I'm still using the wheel. I run the revo with it. Would be nice if nozzle size was in same menu as changing the steel sheet. My only gripe is that the beep is too quiet. Can't hear it upstairs from the basement.
I'm glad your happy with it! Thanks for your insight
I'm happy with my MK3s+ as is. I already have it set up with Home Assistant to monitor and notify me when prints are done. The speed increase is a tempting factor, but I have a faster printer if I need something quick-ish.
Ain't nothin' wrong with that! Thanks for your input!
I've been orienting prints like this one on a 45 so both x and y motors are necessary for all the movements. For CoreXY I place it parallel for A and B. Seems to be able to print faster with better quality. Much less VAF.
That is a great tip, I do this my self on some parts.
Hey Chris awesome video! I am looking at the 3.5 upgrade but would also love to get the new X-y motors on the 4 once Prusa starts to sell them as parts. Have you heard about anything that would stop compatibility with the 3.5 firmware?
Great Video. however you forgot to mention the extra $100 needed for new power supply and new print bed, for older MK3 machines. The $350 upgrade price for older power supply MK3s is a show stopper.
Absolutely! This upgrade may not be worth it on older Prusa machines
I just checked out the Prusa users map and saw you are located in liberty mo, thats where I live.
Yay, Team Liberty!
Love my 3.5, just got the cable so I can use my MMU3 on it. It just keeps printing with way less ticketing than the MK3. Love sending files via Wi-Fi
Nice! I love all the little features it adds to the machine.
l upgraded to 3.9 and is really good and would recommend upgrading to
🙂👍 Thanks for watching!
It'd be pretty cool to see a timelapse of all your i3 versions running side by side and a print comparison. Log, vs mk3, vs mk4 vs Bear.
That's a great idea!
Excellent video to demonstare the capabilites of the MK3.5 upgrade. I just ordered the upgrade kit from PRUSA. An unrelated question; does anyone know by any chance what's the music we can hear during the printing part? Many thanks!
Thanks! We subscribe to a video creator site called Artlist. The music is from there.
Chris, good review. Having Prusa Connect as an option and not needing Micro SD cards is a big benefit. Since I don't have a MK3, I had to do some checking, it seems like they don't sell a MK3.5 it is just the upgrade kit for the MK3. I looked at the MK4 and it is $800 for the kit from Prusa or $950 from Printed Solid. It might be worth getting a MK4 for the $550 price difference and have two printers the MK3 and a new MK4.
Space might be an issue for a lot of people.
Thanks Dave! Two is always faster and who doesn't need another machine. :)
@Chris Riley Did you make in the future a Video about the Nevermore Stealthmax?
No, I haven't done anything in that yet.
mine sits under the desk, with the bed level doing a prop old school and the new mK4 bed level I just do not mess with it. sometimes putting money into old tech is like I just keep fixing the old car when at the end of the day you still have a old printer and old car
Thanks for watching!
I did the 3.5 upgrade on my Prusa. Nice speed improvement. Only issue is that I have a Bondtech extruder with a 0.9 deg stepper. The combination requires 1660 steps per mm since microsteps are 32 instead of 16 as it was on the MK3. The maximum that can be saved is 1000 steps per mm. The work around is to include an M92 command in the print start gcode. Not a big deal but would be better if it could be saved or if I could change microsteps back to 16.
Oh wow! I didn't know that, this is great information for folks to have.
Hmmm, I also have a Bondtech extruder. Are there any other gotchas ?
@@johnpeters4214 The other thing I noticed is that the SuperPINDA probes partially off the right side of the bed. My bed has always been closer to the left side of the frame opening than right. The initial setup no longer looks for the target points on the bed so it doesn't compensate for the misalignment. This results in some extra "squish" if I print close tot the right side of the bed.
@@johnpeters4214 I'm using OctoPrint & send gcode script "After serial connection to printer is established" to correct the E-steps.
Which Bondtech extruder? The MK3s or LGX? I currently have a MK3s+ with Mosquito Magnum which has different stepping than the LGX version.
Great review as usual. This upgrade is not for every owner. If I was invested in the Prusa Ecosystem with several printers for production prints, the speed improvement would be worth it if you get the payback in a reasonable amount of time. If you own a single Prusa 3.0 or any other 2XX by 2XX bedslinger and are doing volume printing, I suggest saving your money and buying an enclosed fast core xy when the price is right for you. The speed improvement with higher print output and print quality is undeniably worth it and you still have your old printer to run parts or use for one-offs and development while your core xy is printing.
I agree 💯 Thanks for your insight!
Dear Chris, could you please elaborate on those expansion nuts holding bed? I'm looking to build some fixed bed for my 3d printer....
I need to do some testing with and with out them. I will see if I can get this done soon. These are the nuts. www.prusa3d.com/en/product/expansion-joints-set/
I wasn't going to upgrade my MK3+, but now I'm considering because I print RC planes and they take a v long time to print. Nice video thanx!
Thank you! Good luck with your projects!
@@ChrisRiley I did end up upgrading, and I’m very happy with the results.
Wen you are comparing the speeds also look at the accelerations, those are all increased with the MK3.5 profile.
That's a great point! Thanks for watching
I upgraded the print bed from the plain steel to the powder coated. Way better :)
🙂👍
Great vid, I really appreciate the comparison. My Mk3S prints just a well, with the settings adjusted, obviously much slower. For the cost of the upgrade I can buy an entire printer from another brand. My MK3S has been awesome, but the cost is out of alignment these days and you don't get anything better in quality for spending any more $ from Prusa. I had pre-ordered the XL on day 1 and then later canceled, gen 1 XL is a fail. The MK4 is nothing impressive compared to the market. Prusa slicer is even falling behind. Hopefully they rebound. Till then, the Mk3S still gets it done well.
Thanks for watching! I appreciate your insight!
It's a tempting upgrade at $250, but unfortunately an additional $100 for me since my printer was an early MK3, which will require a complete bed replacement and additional wiring for the PSU.
It's definitely up to the user and their individual needs. Thanks for watching
I just put klipper and stuff on mine and it’s even better! But I doubt Bambu would do the same with upgrades
👍🙂
I have a Bondtech extruder on a MK3. Are there any challenges or gotchas in going to a MK3.5 ? I know I also need the MK3 -> MK3S+ kit.
Someone listed it here, looks like you need to use the start gcode to change the steps for the bondtech.
Chris, (or any other who reads this) Where can i find a forum for an issue with my Geeetech GT 2560 board..? Suddenly it started 'burning' the heatbed fuse. Do i need a new mobo, or is it something else ???
It's usually the mosfet that is causing an issue like this. Boards are very inexpensive now, I would replace it.
Speaking of new features.... Touch screen has been introduced with the most recent firmware 🥳
Sweet!
Faced with this decision, I got a Bambu P1S.
Thanks for watching
I am underwhelmed by the upgrade paths from Prusa. I love my Mk3S and have upgraded two times over the years. For $250 US you could have a Pi that runs klipper, a new hotend and extruder and maybe some pulltruded carbon rods for the gantry or some better steppers. Dual fan setup on the hotend.
If I want to do this on my own, I will no longer be in the Prusa eco system. I need my printer to just work and not have to do lots of tinkering. So I am holding off on an upgrade to 3.5 or 4 and considering getting a P1P
If the printer works, don't mess with it I say.
My RPi also handles the camera streaming - used for Obico monitoring as well as allowing me to visually check what's going on in the other room. Does the upgrade kit allow for a camera? Or do I need to still use my RPi for that functionality?
The Prusa board does not support camera. But for simple preview, an ESP32cam might be enough (just 640by480, but less than $10 and using webcam, not IPcam protocoll, so directly viewable in any browser).
👍🙂
are you gonna do one of these for the 3.9 and the full 4.0 upgrades?
No 3.9 but 4.0 is in the works!
Chris while you are talking about input shaper, flashing Ender 3 with Marlin 2.1.2 works okay but when you uncomment input shaper it won't flash is there a reason for this, board is SKR mini E3 V1.2 with 2209, thanks
Huh, that's odd, sounds like a bug. Maybe try the bugfix version to see if it's been resolved.
Many thanks for your prompt reply, will give it go over the weekend, regards Rob,
I just love that we do have an option to upgrade, that said my 3.9 is a great upgrade ! Happy extruding !
Totally agree!
Prusa always doing it best
💯
Upgrading to Klipper using a 18€ Raspberry Pi Zero 2W and a 6€ ADXL345 accelerometer for input shaping makes more sense. I even removed the display and only use the Mainsail. You get the best of both worlds, great hardware and reliability of the legendary mk3s+ and all the latest and modern Klipper Features.
Thanks for sharing!
Will Octoprint still be able to control my Mk3 after the conversion? I can't find a answer to this in any of the documentation.
Yes. I went to 3.9 and am also using Octoprint with no problems
3.5 also still Works with octoprint
Yes, as others have said, octoprint is all good.
Does it also get noticeably louder due to the the speed increase?
It doesn't actually, I think it might even be quieter some how.
I don't think it's worth sinking that much more money into the MK3S, especially if you have it hooked up to a Raspberry Pi with Octoprint. I think bed slingers have had their glory years, but should be put out to pasture for stationary beds or beds that only move on the Z axis. And the reason I say that is the bed moving back and forth is basically fanning your print with the ambient air around it, which can cause a lot more warping and also, when the beds start moving very quickly, tall prints can have issues.
What I would like to see, if I may be so bold to make a suggestion, (I don't think you have videos of this specifically) is to take a Prusa MK3S with RPi running Octoprint and make it run Klipper with input shaper and other bells and whistles that Klipper gives you. It's been a while, so I don't recall if the Einsy board needs replaced or not. But, I know there are some 32-bit replacement board that are cheap and getting an accelerometer board is cheap.
Or adding bed leveling with a load cell. But, I think those are pricey from Prusa right now. Then 3.9 kit includes it, but that's even more money...
That said, still being part of the Prusa ecosystem has value that shouldn't be ignored. They are doing the testing and firmware maintenance for you. So staying in Prusa's ecosystem means they'll keep you updated for some years or going with your own cheaper solution means you need to be the tech support for it.
I hope to do a lot of what you are suggesting here with the bear build we are currently working on.
For the price of all of these prusa upgrades you could buy a better printer from a competitor outright and have 2 good printers.
Given my stance on Prusa not being as open as people say they are, I just cant see the justification for such high prices for such minor upgrades.
This upgrade isn't for everyone. It may not be worth it on older Prusa printers
My one issue with the flashing via prusa connect (which I did with 6.0) is that it can flash the firmware. It can reboot the printer, but it gets stuck at the "would you like to program the wifi module?". I don't even know if this is necessary. I had to replace it recently. The original one died on me. But it's been working solidly. So.......why does it need to reprogram the module? If it needs to, it should just do it. If it doesn't need to, then why ask? Oh well. Oh and I kind of hate the touch screen. lol It reminds me of the old windows mobile phones before windows phone came out. It's not very fluid at all. And honestly it feels like it needs a stylus. lol I prefer the knob.......at least in 6.0. Maybe that will change.
I reaaly Like the Touch and ITS really Fluid, maybe you got a Bad one?
@@MaxMichel89 part of it is that the interface is too damn small. That certainaly doesn't help.
Thanks for your insight!
What firmware are you on? I just upgraded to 6.0 and it got rid of the preview picture for me.
That's strange, I'm on 6.0. Try updating Slicer
@@ChrisRiley Yeah i've been using some pre update g-code, maybe that is making the difference.
How would an MK3 switched to Klipper compare to the MK3.5 upgrade?
I have a couple Prusa Bears running on SKR 1.4 & 1.4 Turbo with Klipper. They are pretty close to the same as my MK3.5 upgrade but have z auto level which is an enhancement that the 3.5 can't do.
Interesting
This might have just sold me... Darn it Chris
Good luck with your projects!
No one will pay me the time & stress - so i would buy a MK4 😇
Question: Are the faster printed parts as robust as the MK3s+ ?
Fast must not be better ....
I have 5x MK3s+, so i can use them all for larger projects / more parts at the same time
Thanks for your insight!
Faster is straight up better all around. You can get to a place where you exceed your hotends ability obviously but this idea that slow is better isnt actually based on anything but gut feeling.
Like many things in life you push till yoy hit a bottleneck and going slower than that is just a waste of potential.
I always forget 1 advantage on any of the mk3 upgrades. No mored SD Card, and no more card readers.
💯
So yeah for now I intend to stick with my mk3. It doesn't get a lot of use. The mk4 is my main machine. I did a lot of multi-color prints and sometimes it was annoying that I had something that wasn't visible that I had to "waste" a print time on just to hold things together. I expect the mk3 will get used for that. I'm obsessed with quality. I don't give a crap about speed. In fact very early on I was not happy with my mk3s+ quality. I'm like....what's with these artifacts? They are on all my mk3 prints. I have stuff here at work that I love for decorations, yet part of me is irritated they have VFAs. (I didn't know what VFA's were when I started 2 years ago). I've been very happy with my mk4 since day one.....other than its lack of color. I just got both my mmu3 and mmu3 upgrade in yesterday. I even inserted the PTFE tubes in the front, backwards just like I told you I would. They either should be beveled on both sides or they should be facing the filament source not the extruder. lol I figured for $90 I might as well upgrade my mmu2, which has certainly given me headaches. I'm excited to get going again on color prints this weekend. I have a huge list of stuff that was put on hold. lol The mk3 will probably get used for the less important things. But for the "your focus goes here", they will be 100% mk4 parts. First up will be a senko model I found for $10. She's on a bridge with some trees. I might print the trees on the mk3. Maybe even the ground as well. It's a combination of rock and grass. So it doesn't need to be a clean print.
I'm glad your happy with your MK4! Yeah, if you have an older Prusa, the upgrade may not be worth it.
@@ChrisRiley MMU3 is done, the required nextruder mod will probably happen tomorrow. Unlike building the MMU3 itself, I can't mod the printer on the couch. LMAO (and yes I lost a bearing at one point, but I found it LMAO)
I upgraded all of my Prusa printers with P1S printers. 🤣
Too bad Bambu is closed source.
@@ChrisRileyThey print objects quicker and with better surface finishes than Prusa and do it cheaper. That’s all I require to make money from them. 🤷🏼♂️
@@ChrisRileyPeople say this, but how true is it really. That sounds silly at first, but look at Prusa's current stances on open source and their actions.
My take: Prusa is open source where they have to be and only technically speaking.
Obviously that requires further explanation so to put it succinctly:
Prusa Slicer: Based on much gpl code. No way they could go closed without rewriting from scratch and theyve complained about it being forked which is ridiculous as they forked slic3r themselves.
Prusa firmware: Marlin, but in a way that makes it difficult to merge their work back into marlin proper and vice versa because its a very different, custom, old version which I think is a big reason input shaper came so much longer after marlin had it.
Hardware: They haven't released hardware source like step files, gerbers or boms for their last 2 printers and have openly said they make their boards difficult to replicate defeating the purpose of being open source in the first place.
Long and short, Prusa uses open source all over their branding but when it comes down it, they are only a bit more open than the elephant in the room.
@@BeefIngot Here's where I'm at, do you want to use your 3D printer as a hammer? Meaning, it gets the job done. Do I care if my toaster is open source? Please, do what you want, I would never stop you or look down on you for making awesome things, no matter what tool you use. My channel is based on a community. The 3D printing community that I know and love is based on the sharing of ideas. Prusa is not perfect, being open source makes it really hard for anyone to compete, but that isn't an excuse. I don't get paid by any 3d printing company. All I want is to see people and companies come to the table and participate. Open source is extremely important and it has gotten our community to where it is today. The rules of it are really hard to follow. I do my best to instill the values of open source because great things can come of it. In my book, again personal opinion, there is a difference between companies that fear giving away everything they have worked so hard for and companies that use all of that work and then turn to spit in our communities face. The average user wouldn't even know, but my family, this community does.
@@ChrisRiley I get the sentiment, I think if I put what I was saying differently it would be that I feel like projects like ratrigs, vorons, vzbots more accurately represent open source while Prusa hasnt really since the early stages of the mk3.
I suppose more open source is better than less, and I get that perspective, but to me and I do appreciate being able to have different opinions, If I want an open printer Ill build one and if I want a tool, well thats currently Bambu.
Its the elephant but I ultimately think they pushed the needle forward and respected licenses which is above the vast majority of 3d printer manufacturers.
I would love if other companies pushed user experience as hard as they do, but they just dont seem to and Prusa seems to be tripping over their laurels at least for now.
That said, I get the sentiment, the feeling like what was once basically always open (at least in the consumer space) now isnt (though Creality has shown its only due to laziness multiple times.... but thats another story...). I feel that happening all over like a tide.
All that said, I get that pragmatically, building any of the truly open source projects I mentioned is big work; even something like the rook is big work, so I can get Prusa coming across as a middle ground between the 2 ends.
Also, I lowkey totally get the fear of Bambulabs doing what DJI has for drones, though that can only happen in a space where other companies repeatedly continue not to get that the big advancement is actually user experience rather than just speed. Unlike DJI, at least right now, they arent patent heavy, so I think there is a chance for coexistence if companies just test things for ux before sending them out for once or like prusa used to be a great example of.
Upgrade will cost more depending on bed and power supply you currently have. It could cost $359. At that its almost not worth it as you can buy another brand and get the bells and whistles.
If you have an older Prusa model, the upgrade probably isn't worth it. 🙂
These upgrades could be the way Prusa stays relevant for 2-3 more years BUT they would have to more then Half the price or MORE on the upgrades. If Prusa continues at current pace they are an Ender 3 v1, blackberry or Toys r US in two years. It is not like they will disappear but views will drop to 10% of what they were 2 years ago while Bambu and others 10 fold viewership.
I guess time will tell.
In my opinion the upgrade is very good but also very much overprized. 279,-€ in EU for a new Board an a Display plus few cabels. Much to expensive. For this money I can buy a hole new printer. Prusa will save the mk4 sales with this. I hope China will make a klon Board and Display. 😊 when the price is around 150 I would instand upgrade.
Thank you for your insight!
@13:00 Seriously? 🤔 Sure, it _does_ look better than the previous one, but holy crap does it _still_ look bad ( depending on one's standards ) 🤨
Considering the Upgrade Costs you'd honestly be better off just buying a *_Bambulab_*_ A1 mini_ which costs €4 less than the Upgrade Kit / €120 more if you get it with the MMU.
Too bad Bambulab is closed source
Not my bowl of rice. Can’t justify Prusa prices.
You bet! To each their own
They both print with bad quality of walls, imho
I black really shows the imperfections.
"...it's the fastest, cheapest way to add input shaping to a MK3."
.... for $250...
You can klipperize a mk3 for under $70, including accelerometers for both bed and toolhead, which mk4 doesnt even include. Spending $250 on a 32 bit mainboard&LCD that doesn't even run klipper/RRF is way overpriced. You can get a 32 bit mainboard that runs klipper w/out needing a raspberry pi for
Thanks for your insight!
3.5 old garbage
Thanks for watching