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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2024
- Coming out of seemingly nowhere, Bambu Lab has quickly risen to prominence in the 3D printing industry. The once dominant Prusa Research, with dwindling market share, now finds themselves on the ropes. Can the Core One redeem them? Or is it too little too late?
In this video I talk about the recently announced Prusa Core One, how it stacks up against the Bambu X1C (on paper) and what it might mean for the future of Prusa Research and their position in the broader 3D printing landscape.
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Thanks for watching. For the record, I’m not saying the X1Cs are permanent paperweights. They’re just out of commission until I find the time to repair them. I’m perceiving it to be a difficult process given how tightly integrated these machines are, but I might be mistaken. I have reviewed the instructions on the Wiki for replacing the heated bed and it appears to be quite involved, but perhaps it’s easier than it looks. Cost wise, the replacements are very reasonable: around $120 for a full bed assembly.
Bro. You made a video bashing the serviceability of the them without even contacting their support team first? 😂. By stating that nonsense, I assume everything else you said was nonsense.
@ @ it’s all documented on the Wiki, so I know roughly what’s involved. It doesn’t look like an insignificant task which is why I haven’t gotten around to it. Contacting support would just be for a warranty claim to save the cost of the replacement parts.
I do agree with the complexity of disassembly, since I already got the hotend, extruder assembly replaced(after spending couple of hours trying to recover them). The Lidar on X1C makes for a no tune, print anything for prototype purposes(unless you edit a bunch of gcode to bypass unwanted procedures for production). It unnecessarily increases complexity(when lidar/camera error pops up from time to time), and additional time to every print. The best I know was a Lulzbot, with its direct extruder, although it is lost in eternity. I do love P1S's no wifi, no bamboo studio not even registered🤫, but prints like a tank, with just the gcode loaded onto an industrial microsd card, except for one firmware bug(resolved in a later firmware🤯), that can be easily worked around.❤👍
@@ygk3d You also likened Bambu printers to disposable tech, complete with stock footage of shredded circuit boards and allusions to the iPhone's lack of repairability while nuzzling up on Prusa's jock. Then you go after Bambu's "shoddy support" at 10:47, but you said yourself you haven't contacted them.
And if/when Prusa goes out of business, I challenge you to find a complete third party toolhead. Or their PCBs. Go ahead, go find them now even.
Rethink this video. Consider pulling and fixing it.
I won't see anything you ever produce ever again, since I'll be blocking this channel from my recommendations next time I get the chance...
(And I own a P1S, an X1C, and an XL).
Oh, I see - You'd throw out a P1S if you run into the slightest hiccup. Got it.
Dude, you have some brown on your nose. Did Bambu decline to send you review units or something?
@ you’ve misinterpreted. I love Bambu printers. They’re my daily drivers. Perhaps some of my statements were misinterpreted. I wasn’t implying Bambu’s customer service is shoddy, just that Prusa’s is not. And the bit about most tech products being disposable was a general statement of the industry. I’m pretty certain I’ll have sold off all of my current generation printers 5 years from now. They won’t immediately end up as e-waste but eventually the tech will be so dated that nobody will want them. I tried to be pretty even in my assessment here, saying both positive and negative about both brands. If you don’t like my content, that’s your loss.
Wait so rather than simply replace a part and get a Bambu printer working again you'll just toss it? That seems insane! I have 3 X1C's each with over 1000 hours and no major issues at all. So far I have been able to fix and repair anything needed. Bambu has a great detailed Wiki on how to fix anything on the machine. I started with Prusa and loved them but they are just too $$ for what you get and I just want results and Bambu is doing that at the moment. I am still confused why you can't fix those 2 printers though!
This dude is ridiculous. A force bed sensor is $5. He will sideline a $700 or$1200 printer than spend $5 and follow the wiki or $120 for a new heat bed? but he had no issues dropping 4-5k on an XL and build it ?
Me thinks his reasoning is beyond suspect and borders on ridiculous.
a single heatbed tile for the XL is $23 x16= $368
@@damiengvideos4337 definitely not tossing them in the bin. Just saying they are unusable until I find time to repair them and I’m a bit intimidated by the process. I’m probably overthinking it. It might not be as bad as I’m anticipating.
@@No0o0o0o0o0 it’s not an issue of cost. It’s an issue of time. I’m perceiving it to be a difficult process given how tightly integrated the printer is. But I could be mistaken. I’ll tackle it at some point and find out.
Sounds like KTM ;)
@@ygk3dI feel like criticizing Bambu's repairability without having actually experienced it is a bad move for credibility.
The X1's just need some basic maintenance. Not sure how it could not be worth fixing
Right? I am nearing 3000 hours with my X1 and the only thing I've had to change was a hotend. All parts are listed on the website and a simple video watch shows you how to tear them down and put them back together. It's easy.
The entire heatbed is not "basic maintenance".
Prusa needs a 350x350x350 color combo killer and the Core One isn’t it. It’s just a stop gap to a longer term problem. Nobody cares about a nice nook for their filament or a built in tool cabinet. Convenient, but the market doesn’t want gimmicks. They want a bigger build plate and color.
What the community really want is fast and large idex printers. Maybe nobody is saying but till one appear with a volume of +300mm +800mm speed but also doest need any work from the user to align anything and offset is always perfect for both nozzles then everyone will leave these ams systems
@@tired5925ratrig incoming. It's DIY total kit though.
A lot of people want colour without the waste of Bambu or the cost of the Prusa XL. Whoever solves this will be a key player moving forward
@@tagg8233 I fully agree with this comment!
I'm hoping they will scale up the Core One to a larger bed size at some point. But it's pretty sweet that they offer an upgrade from Mk4s to Core One, which explains the print volume. And it's nice that they managed to squeeze out a little extra volume on the same plates.
As for color, the MMU3 has been performing pretty well for me. They need to improve the usability of that thing; compared to the AMS it is a real pain to load filament into that thing. There's a few aftermarket options to do away with the buffer, which makes for easier loading and a smaller footprint.
Has anyone mentioned the fact that the Prusa Core One is much more compact than most (all?) other printers that offer roughly the same build volume? That makes it very attractive to me as a complement to my current Prusa MK4 and Voron V0.
Is it though? Being able to fit a whole spools speaks to how much space in the sides there is. It doesn't seem notably more compact than anything else and they again go with the weird non uniform xy
@@BeefIngot The space on the sides comes from the Stepper motors which makes printers much bigger than the print bed. They optimize space using which makes the total footprint, including the spool smaller and helps with heating. So, quite a good solution.
@bern71 That doesn't check out given many printers use a wrap around design for the motors.
I feel like people bend over to find everything Prusa to be somehow genius
It looks so cheap though, stamp steel sheet and thin clear plastics. Have you forgot how their multi color solution looks? Its all over the place.
interesting, how old are the X1C's? I'm curious if there's a change in quality or just flukes, my two have 2,700+ and 1,900+ hours each and I've only had to replace Bowden tubes, cutters, unjam an extruder because I used old brittle filament in it, and clean the lidar camera a bunch of times (in addition to regular leadscrew lubing and maintenance) I guess I'm lucky, but I know people who have entire X1C farms with similar luck
They're maybe a year and a half old. I have others that are still running strong. It's possible that these units were just lemons, because, like you say, many people have far exceeded 1,000 hours of printing with minimal issues.
My X1C is on about 2500 and still working like charm. A1 about 1500 and still no problem, A1 mini about 600+ and no problem. And all parts are on bambu store.
My Bambu has been printing no stop for 46 years now, and it still goes great, no problems no maintainance... This is an absolutely organic comment, and it's perfectly natural that every friggin time anyone mentions a problem with a Bambu printer 90% of the comments are "My Bambu was used to build the piramid of Giza and still works no problem."
@@ygk3d Honestly, i'd put a little effort into fixing them as: 1) they are costing you money just sitting there 2) Bambu parts are relatively cheap.
I have 1000 hours and no problems
For me, prusa takes it for a few specific reasons, if prusa stops existing, much of their machines can be replaced with off the shelf parts, bambu on the other hand is majority proprietary. prusa is made in europe with better working regulations and wages. prusa has great customer care and their up gradability is unbeaten in the market.
As well as all that, prusa came from the open-source and built on it. bambu took from the open sauce, made it proprietary, using it to profit for themselves wile giving nothing back. i know my prusa is gonna work and keep printing at a good solid speed reliably, their not the fastest but with relatively little modding they can hold their own. If I need something done quick, i look to my voron .2 that can accelerate at twice the speed of a bambu and is half the price, as well as being completely open source and easily replaceable.
I like the prusa because they don't steal IP and haven't used slave labor
It's not about being first to market, but doing it right.
We've seen multiple Chinese manufactured printers that are fire hazards, and their first response was to downplay the danger, and only did something after being called out on it.
Like with the A1 recall
@@krollmond7544 They react in right way. I wait for bed and get also 128€ bonus on store..
I'm still on a Tevo Tarantula... One of those chinese fire hazards... Altough, I don't remember it shipping back in 2017 with a magnetic print bed, a Hemera XS revo extruder, a Misumi linear rail for the bed or any of the other thousand little things I upgraded.
@@krollmond7544 Bambu didn't downplay the danger at all with the A1. The power coord issues were a rarity and were only recalled as a safety precaution. They probably suffered more reputation damage from an over safe A1 recall versus just downplaying the danger.
@starflexthe2nd I'm just saying they were recalled, I don't know if they downplayed it or not
As a long time sufferer of the unworkable MMU2 (firmware was simply crap) and the MMU3 (endless tip tuning per filament) I can honestly say that comparing it to the Bambu AMS just shows the massive gap Prusa has in the multi material space. Prusa has nothing. Also the Bambu X1C is not throw away at all ... the parts to fix are easily available on the Bambu website and are really cheap. It's also very easy to work on and service and a very robust unit. Bambu parts are much better priced than Prusa parts. Prusa is just unable to compete on price. That said their work in the OpenSource space is to be commended particularly with their slicer.
Prusa has nothing? They have the XL, which is a lot less wasteful and can achieve actual multi material. The bambu is multi-colour, not true multimaterial.
How did prusa fall so far behind, when they appeared to be leading years back? If prusa himself were an engineer, then maybe things could have turned out different. It hard to support or depend prusa these days with what they are charging. Yeah, they really need to make their multicolor less diy looking, and more hassle free. That alone should be no go in 2025 when buying a 3d printer for multicolor.
You can build an entire Prusa XL but replacing a $5 force sensor or even a $120 head bed means you have a paper weight?
Wut? Did you forget hot to hold a screwdriver and follow step by step instructions?
You've obviously never ran a print farm. This dude is constantly going from machine to machine and the downtime of basically none to replace things. He said FOR NOW. Something that you and other commentors seem incapable of recognizing
I have a Bambu X1C with AMs at work, and recommend the Bambu ecosystem to everybody interested in 3D printers because of how incredibly trouble free it has been. The only problems we have had are hot ends breaking when they crash against a part which had failed bed adhesion (but they are cheap to replace) and GF/CF filaments breaking in the AMS a couple times. I should also say that I have only needed to replace hot ends 3-4 times, but that is the failure mode, not wearing out from abrasive filament. We have roughly 2,500 hours on our machine at this point. I ended up buying a P1S w/ AMS for home (and run it in LAN only mode) because of my experience with the X1C. I think my only big reason to go with anybody other than Bambu is to avoid China Cloud Services.
For reference, we run almost exclusively Bambu filament (PETG-CF, PAHT-CF, PA6-GF, ASA, TPU-HF, for production; PLA and PETG-HF for tools/fixtures and quick mock-ups).
Prusa had crash detection since MK3S. Bambu breaking hotend when not that rare printing issue occurs is sign of poor design. Bambu is good printer, but in long term reliability Prusa is the winner.
I have a similar experience. I have an X1C and P1S using Bambu filaments. Apart from minor failures (z height detection failure and failure to retract filament), it has been a joy to use the Bambu Labs ecosystem. The printers come with a bunch of the consumables and replacements are inexpensive (wipers, blade cutters, etc). And if you don't want to print from the Bambu Cloud service, you don't have to. Octoprint has preliminary support for Bambu printers and the old SD card works fine as well.
You really shouldn't be running the abrasive filament through the AMS. At least that was what they said originally. Did that guidance change?
@@jan.bednarik Prusa crash detection has notoriously not worked well since the mk3s. Furthermore, Bambu also has crash detection. Furthermore, the heat break breaking is actually the best point to fail as its the cheapest point to replace.
The 3D printing community we watched grow & develop is in the middle of another evolution. As a former long standing Prusa fan, I've sold off my Prusa products. At the end of the day, the company that gives us the most features for the best price will win. Until someone beats Bambu at their own game, they will continue to rise to the top. Sure, people care about the morals that developed the community - Prusa was at the forefront of that but for how long will people care? Prusa really screwed up with this release IMO. They had an opportunity to respond strong to Bambu's X1C and what did they do instead? Gave us less features for a considerable amount more than the X1C. The community loyalty that shielded Prusa is coming to an end. Eventually people will stop caring about the past and Prusa will be left behind as another company in history that got too comfortable at the top and stopped innovating (see Blackberry).
Hard for a European company to compete with Chinese costs, unfortunately
@@FarrelClement Many people ore prepared to pay a premium to receive premium features (X1C vs P1S is an example). What the OP has said is correct - Prusa are charging a premium without any value-add, and that's why their hole is getting deeper.
Been a longtime Prusa fan. Completely switched to bambulab. The Prusa premium just isnt worth it.
Your MK3's may be old, and slower, but they are reliable, still working, still getting updates, and have confidence you can buy parts for it for a very long time.
I had a heat bed sensor problem on my P1S, contacted support and in about a week I had a new heat bed. Took less than an hour to replace and I’m 1000+ hours with it. I’ll buy your X1Cs if you’re gonna throw them out
Having owned most printers from both Bambu and Prusa, I can confirm both are fantastic - which is best for you depends on use case. If I were to recommend a printer for a home user or even a print farm startup with a budget, I’d probably say pickup a P1S - great quality, speed and ease of use. I also like the ability to chain AMS units for 16 color prints. That being said, I have an issue that requires some of my time to fix on the X1s and P1Ss around once every 100 hours or so (and the purging with the AMS is extremely inefficient - hoping they optimize it more in firmware updates). My XLs and MK4Ss are dead reliable, rarely ever having any kind of issue at all. The experience is a little less user friendly for beginners, but getting better with each update. They are also easy to work on if I do want or need to. If you are more experienced or need as little downtime and material waste as possible, it’s Prusa for me. The upgrade path makes them cheaper in the long run as well. BTW- there is a camera option on the Core One.
These are great points and observations, especially that the plug and play of Bambu appears somewhat of a gimmick where they downstream-ed the time and efforts to keep them running on the back end no one thinks about when impulse buy vs the front end where most consumers keep their undying focus.
This is likely the only wave Bambu can keep all the features and specs affordable and competitive.
The purge in Bambu can be manually tuned with test prints as it is filament specific the the particular spools and order you print in. Options are in bs/orca
@ The flaw is in the lack of retraction and the cut point leaving so much in the heatbreak to purge - that needs a firmware fix. They did one fix recently, but it wasn’t enough.
-Longevity
-Customer service
-You can just buy the upgrade kit to transform your Mk4 to the Core One so you get the machine for half the price of a comparable new machine
I totally see the selling point. Especially professionals who value customer service can't overlook this.
U completely disregard the fact that the Mk4 itself is a overpriced machine. So u in total paying as much as an x1c with the ams. I dont think it is possible prusa fan are all this ignorant, im guessing most are bots now so 010010101101010101
Pretty sure there Core One upgrade is only for the 4S. No direct 4 to core
A lot of people ignore these, but the reliability, ease of repair, and expectations of future compatibility from Prusa is amazing.
People say they're expressive, and they are, not for someone who just wants to tinker with a 3d printer. But, for someone who wants that quality and the brand behind it, it's worth it. There's no reason so many print farms would have Prusa if they weren't worth it to at least some people.
@@tired5925 The MK4 is expensive yes, but not overpriced for what it offers. They offer an amount of service, quick repairability, and customer service you don't quite get from other 3d printers.
I will say, these benefits make it more of a print-farm style printer, than one many people would want as their only printer. It doesn't have the same versatility as an enclosed and multicolor 3d printer, but that's not their target with the device. Their target are people who repeatably want to print quality on the few things they do print, and be able to make repairs and upgrades in the future.
@@dfwdweghom8902 This is correct as stated by Prusa so far. It would be upsetting if there wasn't a specific upgrade kit from MK4 to Core One. You CAN buy the MK4S upgrade for the MK4, but surely a MK4 to Core One conversion shouldn't cost the entire extra 100 USD to do.
It's crazy that an industry this huge didn't have any companies truly innovating and a brand new company was able to come in and immediately become the new standard of which even the established companies are now chasing.
Because market was not big enough.
Yep. Fear that shows that Open Source does not automatically mean that innovation really fosters.
Did they innovate? I see nothing in Bambu that wasn't already created in open-source projects. They took all of that, and contributed nothing back.
The innovation happened in the Voron project years before Bambu came about.
Unreal take to say they didn’t innovate. They were the first to do force bed probing, lidar, and ams. Not to mention the welded chassis and rfid tags. And before you find some obscure example of someone who did these things first, they clearly integrated it better and refined it since there the first widespread use of any of these. It is the first and borderline still only printer in the world that simply works, and that is what the mass market desired. It went from a toy hobbies used to make little gizmos to a true engineering tool (and also print a hell of a lot more gizmos lol)
there is one show stopping deal breaking make or break killer issue for me - closed sourced dependance on a Chinese web service is a hard no
all BambuLab printers support a LAN-only mode where it is not connected to anything outside of your own local network. You can still send prints over to your printer via the local network but don't have any cloud capability (the App becomes useless). You can also just use the micro SD-card.
Please explain what you're so afraid of? No conspiracy theories - just evidence-backed facts please.
just put it on a VLAN like all your other IOT devices
Just don't give it network connectivity then, and move on with your day.
@@Denis_v1.0_beta China steals IP.
I hate downtime. Prusa gives me the confidence that I will always get my printers up up and running if they ever go down. I also know I can always get ahold of Prusa support.
The problem is for a given comparable prusa machine you can buy 2 Bambu machines so the confidence (not based in evidence as multiple print farms have shown the Bambus to be just as if not more reliable) dies with the fact you can just have more.
The concept of a disposable printer just does not work for me. None of my Prusa printers have become paper weights.
@@narlyb1500 The problem is that it's a myth that it's disposable vs non disposable.
Ignore that guy, hes a certified bambu shill that has zero experience with prusa. Bambu's are referred to as "easy bake vorons" for the very reason that they are considered throwaways when broken.
I think Prusa needs some kind of VVD system or a compact MMU inside a box. That way it could compete with X1C (not P1S). To compete with k2 plus and new generation of big size printer they need something like a “CORE ONE XL” (just a bigger core one with the bed from the XL and that “VVD” multimaterial system). Oh, please add a damm nozzle wiper
LOL, I have no skin in this game. I'm an engineer who uses 3D printers and used to love PRUSA, but theyve been left far behind by Bambu and dare I say it, Qidi and Creality isnt too far. The new printer is not really worth it compared to the Bambu.. Once the X2 comes out they will be blown out of the water.
The competition between Bambu and Prusa has been great for the 3d print community as a whole. Bambu really shook the foundations and in doing so this has led to a great flood of printers hitting the markets these past two years.
I think we have all witnessed many costly mistakes also. Bambu and Qidi and many other companies I do believe have shown us that they need to test more before releasing machines to the market. I do think the machines that get designed in 2025 and beyond will be some extraordinary machines. Will the manufacturers listen to us?
I want to see multihead, multicolor, chamber heater, bed temps increased, nozzle temps reaching 450c. Minimum footprint of 380-400 with height of 600. I want to see premium component options for guaranteed accuracy. I would like to see thick solid build plates and fast and easy nozzle changes. Auto bed calibration and flow calibration the norm. Give me those features and take the time and use high quality components and take pride in the wiring job and use a top tier power supply. Surely one of these companies will make it happen.
I challenge a company to design a two head solution that can use up to a dozen filaments per head. This can be done, is anyone up to the challenge? How about variable bed angle? So many features I would love to see. Please, before you bring it to market just ensure it is well built and any part is readily available on market launch date as a spare. Quality and the ability to easily repair a machine is the other end of the equation very few get right.
@JTs3DPrints I think the new Bambu HD will be the answer to your questions. Maybe CES.l, but you would know more than me as I'm just an end user. I'm waiting for the new bambu. Ready to pre order. Take my money!
"I have no skin in this game" is a useless statement used to try to trick people into valuing your opinion more as if somehow you're 8mmune for bias.
You literally directly go on to describe your "skin in the game". If that's no skin in the game, no one has skin in the game outside of the companies themselves.
Completely lost me at Creality. To even mention Creality in the same paragraph is amusing, given how awful that company is. Their printers tend to be poorly thought out, poorly tested, full of lemons and usually need quite a bit of fixing. Support is sketchy too.
Went through years of fighting their rubbish machines, spending most of my time troubleshooting, tuning and fixing, with lots of frustration and months long breaks from printing. Went to Prusa at last, smooth sailing.
@@skywardsoul1178 Lost in translation.. Im saying even a shite company like creality isnt too far behind. I would never buy their garbage FYI.
For me as a somewhat advanced home user the volume is the deal breaker on the core one. Even 250 cubed is jus limiting, and for small things I run a a1 mini in parallel. Looking forward to that H2D.
For EU citizens it really make sense to buy EU products such as Prusa.
Bambu, with their Chinese roots, is to avoided at any cost.
This is how I feel and do.
The lack of any justification for this strongly stated opinion, I think is a big part of what the problem with Prusa is
When your main selling points are vague fearmongering, that's a problem.
The core1 shares a lot of components with the MK4s. It is kind of an mixture of their AFS printers and the MK4s. The AFS is Prusa's fully automated printfarm which can run up to 18 printers 24/7 (see th-cam.com/video/82ww7ZTpDus/w-d-xo.html).
Personally I do not like Bambu's closed and patented system and the fact you must use the cloud to be able to use the printers. Printers are build in a way the are hard to repair, but cheap to replace, creating more e-waste than necessary. I'm more a guy of generating the least waste possible. I think the Core1 fits me better than a BambuLab. With the price for the Core1 it is not a bad investment, but for single colour only. For multi colour the Bambu with AMS is better. For multi material with different printing temperatures the Prusa XL is unbeatable.
Du you own a Prusa XL?
Would have liked to see Prusa use the AFS build plates instead of the i3 build plates. That would have really given them the build volume to outdo Bambu. But they are looking to slot the Core One into their print farm, sounds like they didn't have the space for a larger footprint.
From what I've heard, parts for Bambu are just as easy to obtain as parts for Prusa, and both are priced reasonably. However, I've also heard that Prusa will be able to provide better support when it comes to repair and trouble shooting advice. If you know how to repair 3D printers, either company will still be a good choice in that regard. Now as far as which brand is more reliable, that honour may belong to Prusa. I tend to think of Bambu printers as being more hobbyist friendly, while Prusa might be the more go-to choice for print farms. Especially, when you realize that Prusa 3D prints parts for their own printers ON their own printers. This means they are doing the beta testing on their new products not their customers. So, it probably comes down to what you want and need in a 3D printer. With Prusa printers and parts now made in the USA (Printed Solid) and possible tariff increases on goods from China, the cost difference between the two is going to evaporate.
The Bambu Wiki is pretty comprehensive actually, so while you may not have an actual human walking you through stuff, information is easy to obtain. Basically every part is available in the shop, at mostly reasonable prices. Bambu does a far better job than most other companies in this regard.
BBL parts are available when in stock, and it seems they’re never in stock, always the “Notify when Available” even then when you do find the time to order its out of stack again.
Funny enough, I currently have an Elegoo Neptune 4 pro. Works beautifully and at $210, I would argue better value than the A1 mini. My problem with the market currently is that a few years ago, we talked about every manufacturer. Now we act like there are only 2.
Great comment. I also have a Neptune 4 Pro and it's been an excellent and very reliable printer, and a great value.
My first 3D printer was an Ultimaker 2e+, hugely expensive, but at the time, it really seemed like the best thing out there. Around the time MK3s came out, I got an Ultimaker 3e, again, hugely expensive, but it really seemed like something else back then! Now, 5 years later, my UM3e is mostly forgotten, it's still here, I still have some 2.85mm filament for it, it still works, but it's features just aren't there. I honestly got jealous when I saw Prusa send out major firmware updates for older printers, heck even the Mini got major boost in performance, yet Ultimaker has abandoned older printers long ago. I'm pretty sure that once I spend my 2.85mm filament, I'll take out all the proprietary parts from that UM3e, and give it a single nozzle head with Trianglelab parts or something like that. I did something similar with UM2e+, and it's still being used. Way back when, I also bought some (much much much) cheaper CR-10s pro's, and with cheap upgrades, they are still running, very reliably. The whole experience thought me to avoid expensive and proprietary stuff. Core One looks super cool, if someone gifted it to me, I'd gladly use it, but I would never buy it. Not when I can get an Infimech Tx and get all the performance I need from it, right out of the box, and if it starts falling behind, it will be very easy to change/upgrade what I feel like. Prusa has its audience, and many fans, so I have no doubt that Core One will sell well, but I fell it's just not interesting enough to justify that price in the current market.
The force sensors in the X1C are a user replaceable (and pretty inexpensive - $5) parts, so your paper weight could be printing in no time and (almost) no money, the heated bed is also a user serviceable part but its not cheap (around $150, but so are Prusa's heated beds). The real issue with the X1C serviceability is the motion system, there are user-serviceable parts but they are expensive and there are some parts (like the Y axis bearing for example) that are not serviceable at all. Bottom line is - the serviceability of the Prusa printers is unparalleled, but the Bambu is mostly user serviceable but there are some parts that will render you printer useless if worn out.
WTF? Why do I get a artificial, hard to listen to German voice on this video?
I want to listen to the Englisch version, as with all other videos.
It's a new ‘feature’ on TH-cam and I hate it. You can select the audio track in the video's settings, but you can't set a default value.
I have an X1C with AMS, it has around 550 print hours. It's been collecting dust for weeks because I keep getting the Tool Head has fallen off error message for no reason. In addition the AMS is no longer recognized. I got a lot of spare parts from Bambu but replacing them is a pain and most of them are not fixing my issues (got my third toolhead cover, why?). I ordered a Core One now as its fitting my needs even better (e.g. printing fully closed PLA/PETG and active temperature control) and i hope for better/more effektiv support.
Brace yourself, a thousand people are about to start replying to you saying that their Bambu works just fine and has a million hours of printing no problem.
" I ordered a Core One now as its fitting my needs even better"
Wow you ordered and got a Core one BEFORE they even started shipping(jan 2025). This is $100% a real user...lmao. There are zero reviews, no active printer shipments, but somehow you have one....ok buddy.
Which version of unreleased Prusa slicer are you using that has Core One profiles?
Josef train your bots better, this is just embarrassing.
@@AmericanVirus-rf1rn He didn't say he'd received it. He said he ordered it. Put on your reading glasses.
@@warwickshaw155 lol
@@AmericanVirus-rf1rn I think you missed a "I hope" in their comment.
It's probably just bad luck but after owning a Prusa mini and building a voron I bought a a1 mini on black friday and the quality has been terrible. Very unclean layer stacking. Might return it to be honest.
It feels a little disingenuous to call the X1Cs paperweights because they require maintenance, and then compare them to printers that you have actually performed maintenance on? (Purely on the maintenance/replacement parts, not the speed etc)
Maybe I’m misreading that though?
How can i disable the voice translation?
The Core One looks really cool, but I think they are missing the mark, too many people want something bigger.
While I do too, I do think it might be a vocal minority bevauce people fine with smaller aren't speaking up as they have no complaints.
International the Bambu is WAY cheaper and easier to get than Prusa machines (in Canada anyways).
@@marcusone1 the shipping fees and import taxes/duties really hit you when buying a Prusa. And hello from a fellow Canadian 👋
@@ygk3d Not just that, our excange rate. Bambu X1C currently listed at 1,299.00 Canadian. Prusa Core One is 1199 USD, which is over $1,700 CAD without shipping and duty yet! by the time I get a Core One, I could almost buy 2 Bambu X1Cs. I love Prusa... but the need to stand out on more than reliability at that price difference.
Prusa has partnered with Printed Solid in the US to combat this issue, hopefully that comes true
@@dfwdweghom8902 won't matter for us Canadians i'm afraid. Again, where bambu has crushed Prusa. Setup of local wharehouses in many contries to offer free shipping, incluidng no extra duty charges!
@@ygk3d What hurts the most is that Prusa's business model makes it so to have their machines UL (or similar internationally recognized) certification, either a local importer or the end user needs to do it themselves. I wanted our uni department to get one but the safety and hazards office refused any machine that didn't have a cert to be plugged in the building's outlets, with good reason (insurance). That would have cost us 500-800$. For one machine.
We got a Intertek certified Troodon 2.0 from 3D Printing Canada that was only marginally more expensive than bought direct from Formbot.
It seems to be, as far as I know, the same with Bambu though. The local dealers do the certification themselves. I would never buy any consumer-grade 3D printer that's not certified and use it at home because if it did fail and burn my house down, I'd like my insurance to not deny a claim because of it.
IMO this is indefensible, both from Bambu and Prusa.
Honestly, if they wanted to make a competitive coreXY today, it should have had a bigger build volume. Not a wonky stupid one.
The Core One isn't competing with the X1C, it's competing effectively with the P1S since feature for feature they are pretty much identical.... For the price of the XL you can also get pretty much 2 PROFORGE tool change printers which are made in the UK so that also removes the other "excuse" to go with Prusa.... Prusa should be led to pasture they've dug their own grave and they should lay in it.
I got a p1s earlier this year and just picked up an almost brand new mk3s for $200 just because i wanted a prusa.... options and competition are awesome there is a place for both.
The only thing I am scared of is that we will kill off all open source friendly companies because the other companies have better products for now but will become just as bad as 2d printers if they don't have anyone to compete with.
If that's your thought support Sovol, because they're the only semi big 3d printer company shipping fully open source printers right now.
3:05 Sorry don't by your comment that it is probably not worth fixing ... Bambu sells most parts relatively cheaply... I gladly take them off you lol
@@K8Stuff I’m hoping I’m wrong about that. It’s just an intimidating thought of having to take it apart.
@@ygk3d Honestly, it's not any worse that disassembling a desktop or laptop computer. Just keep track of your screws and take photos as you go for reference.
Bambu also have preety good how to guides.
@@ygk3d Intimidating that you'll lose Prusameters when Josef finds out you took a screwdriver to a printer other than his own brand?
You come across as an absolute goddamned shill.
@@ygk3d If you are running a print farm and you are afraid to open a printer, you might need to find someone to do it for you, or perhaps its not the right business for you.
If Prusa can solve the Bambu waste problem without costing over 4 grand they will eat into Bambu in a big way. More european buyers cannot stomach all the needles waste the bambu machines are deigned to produce
There is just no real way to not have a lot of wast with color printing and just 1 nosel . Prusa wont chang that and its also not mean to be used in big scal for that you need a tool changer were BambuLab will kill them in ever matric if they make one
A multi-head system seems indeed like the only option. Question is whether that can be made affordable..
Except its never reliable. Different moisture contents, different ambient temps, Different levels of water retention. Different ages. There are infinite variables to account for. You see those strings from the removed filament? They cause issues... period. Only way to have a reliable experience is to cut your losses. Still has a ton lower waste than CNC
They already have, It's called the MMU3
I had 4 different printers from 3 different companies to start out with. Creality, Anker, Elegoo. All the printers worked reasonably well. After I got my X1C, I sold all of the other printers. I’ve tinkered less with my Bambu printers and have had far less catastrophic failures. Apart from basic maintenance, they just work. Can’t wait for the new printer announcement in 2025!
Bambu lab still has an issue of availability outside of US and EU. In the meanwhile, it's easier to find either a Prusa or a clone kit, so finding the printer and the spare parts would be cheaper and easier
I have both an MK4(s) and a p1s, and I have some thoughts.
If you want your stuff to just be printed effortlessly then both are quite nice. I'd personally say go for the bambu, as it's cheaper and has a heated chamber so it can print more stuff and is more consistent in the winter if you keep your printers in a cold room like me.
If you actually like the act of 3D printing... Man the prusa is better. I like my stuff to behave how I want it to behave, and it's much easier to with the prusa. You can feel the different approach in firmware design and the rnd behind making it a proven reliable thing you can also modify as you please.
You might also not care in the slightest about all this and just hit print in bambu handy. Uh, new print is ready!
Two different printers for different kinds of people. I know I'm selling the mk4s to get a core one, it's expensive yeah, but I like that they think like I think. Working with the bambu for stuff that isn't the defaults sometimes feels like you're fighting with the firmware engineers lol. It feels nore unpolished on the software side. As old-school feeling as the prusa interface is, it is quite intuitive and not clunky. Bambu's feels a bit unfinished, even if it's more modern looking. Oh well, it's good at what it does. I'm keeping it :D
Competition is great! I agree this would have been like $1500 if bambulab didn't exist.
I hate the fanboyism of the whole prusa vs bambu thing with a passion, as it's held on by people that are convinced that their priorities of what a printer should be are the correct priorities. They aren't.
Both brands make printers that are great at what they are set to do. They focus on different things, and different people weigh them differently. IT'S FINE! A good thing, even. If everyone did, thought, feeled the same way about everything we'd be extinct. You want the app and the ecosystem? GOOD! You want the reliability and value openness? GOOD! I have both :D
As I mentioned, I'm selling the Mk4s to get a core one. A few considerations:
-the upgrade doesn't make sense financially compared to "flipping" the mk4, especially if you bought a kit and can now sell the printer assembled for close to what you bought it for
-with prusa the smart thing to do is go for the kits, not only they are great fun if you already like Legos and similar stuff, but they make these upgrades make more justifiable. Prusa is undeniably expensive, but not that much more expensive if you get the kits.
-if you're actually financially smart and want to try a prusa, get a used one right before launch of the next one lol
I agree with you. If you get joy from 3D PRINTERS, get the Prusa. You'll have a better time. Definitely go for the kit, so you build it out and fundamentally understand how everything works and know how to troubleshoot in case anything goes wrong (not saying it will, but knowing how it goes together mechanically should give you more confidence in the system). If you just use a 3d printer as a tool in a larger workflow, I'd lean on a Bambu machine, myself. You can get it right now, it's a known experience, and in the US especially, if you're close to a microcenter, you can get the Bambu-tuned filament with RFID super fast (and if not, Bambu's shipping to the US is a lot less onerous than Prusa's US shipping). I wouldn't say just use Makerworld or Bambu Handy and print something; I only print my own designs and have a bunch of different printers, including two vorons (v0, v2.4 350). The v2.4 takes too long to heat soak to print, and the v0 is often not quite big enough for all of my models (but will get the nod when it is). The X1C gets probably 80% of my design iteration workload because I can get something out fast, I don't have to spend time manually swapping different filaments (I use the AMS for storing different types of filament and different colors, but don't do many multi-color prints), and a print will usually be done by the time I'm ready with the next thing I need to print. My other printers, including an older MK3S, are used for final parts runs.
One other note -- neither the X1 nor P1 have heated chambers, IIRC. The X1E (the super expensive enterprise version with an ethernet port) may, and I suspect the new big printer may, but not the stock X1C people are buying. I forget if the Core One has a heater, but if it does that may be a plus in that column too. To counter that, though, another negative of the Core One is that it will probably take a bit for the firmware to be up to snuff, given all the hassle early adopters had with the XL. I wouldn't compare a printer that's not even available right now to a printer that has been around for almost 3 years -- the Core One by all rights SHOULD be better than the X1, and I hope it is! Competition is how we as consumers win.
I agree with most of your statements but quite a lot of people need a bigger printbed (300 to 350) and want multi color. I want 2 printheads so i can print models with disolvable support rel. fast. Prusa XL is too expensive in a 2 print head configuration. The only printer i could find which i can pay for is a RatRig 400 IDEX.
I am at 1.7k hours and 774 hours across my two x1c printing mostly pretty harsh ABS, ASA, and CF- materials and have needed very minimal maintenance compared to any other printer I have worked with from two Formlabs Fuse 1's, dozens of Lulzbot, dozens of Creality Ender's, several Voron, and a Trumpf TruPrint 5000
The Bambu Lab X1C has needed the least service and has been the most fire and forget of any printer I have experienced, the worst part is greasing the back lead screw, while even on machines that are coming close to $1,000,000 when you factor in all of the accessories, installation, shipping and training, the amount of down time is truly unreal, sometimes 2+ weeks to have a service technician come to service the equipment.
Prusa core one doesn't appear to have anything better than the competition, while still trying to charge an arm and leg for it. Prusa needs to face reality, this isn't what consumers want. Their multicolor solution too bulky, and the size of the core one is too small. Prusa missed the mark on this one. I don't know if the prusa fanboys can save prusa this time.
The reason its so divided is the prusa fanboys are the only ones who care and comment. Prusa clearly aren't selling as well as they use to, if they have to release a new printer every year.
The Core 1 would probably sell better if it had a printbed of 300mm2 or 3200mm2 and a better multi-color solution, Maybe optional second print head like the RatRigs.
Consisentcy is the Selling point of Prusas, a lot businesse i know have prusas despite them being smaller volume or slower, but theyve had better consistency print to print.
@@DanielLopez-up6os so I guess they havent upgraded to bambulab yet? That's like what I've been seeing a lot of prusa owners doing from the mk3. From a consumer friendly product, well its night and day with multicolor involved. Having a good multicolor printer is the future.
I don't mind old school 3d printers, as I'm a tinkerer. For a consumer friendly product, well you need to over a competitive product at a competitive price. Prusa ain't it anymore. They are turning into boutique 3d printers, for the fanboys. They are losing marketshare, because they've priced themselves out of the market.
@DanielLopez-up6os so I guess they havent upgraded to bambulab yet? That's like what I've been seeing a lot of prusa owners doing from the mk3. From a consumer friendly product, well its night and day with multicolor involved. Having a good multicolor printer is the future.
I don't mind old school 3d printers, as I'm a tinkerer. For a consumer friendly product, well you need to over a competitive product at a competitive price. Prusa ain't it anymore. They are turning into boutique 3d printers, for the fanboys. They are losing marketshare, because they've priced themselves out of the market.
Dumb question:
Why is on your golden Pruse some "Prague" sticker on it? Havenrt seen this before.
Is it because of the special edition?
There is no magic sauce in Bamba. It's the cost and features that matter. All Prusa has to do is build a comparable machine and be profitable and they will sell machines. I can't wait for the clones.
To be fair, Prusa has always had something of a price premium. It just didn't keep up with the technology and lost the race to the X1C.
Finally a prusa that doesn't look like a DIY project a high school kid made in his garage.
Core one looks really cheap with the stamped sheet metal. It is still a diy kit. I don't mind it being that, but it definitely not the level of manufacturing that other 3d printer companies have now. 3d printers nowadays don't have to cost a lot to make them print well.
@ I agree but it’s a step in the right direction. Prusa greatly undervalues product aesthetics imo.
Bambu has all parts easily available through their online store. They have a full wiki to guite you through troubleshooting and repairs. They are absolutely repairable, much more so than most other companies. I really dont get why nobody seems to bother looking if the statements they make actually align with reality.. Sure, open source is noce to have, but not necessary to get a repairable product. I like what Prisa does ethics wise, but that doesn't mean Bambu has to be bad by default.
My main concern is about how long Bambu will provide the replacement parts. While most hobbyists might just buy a new printer in 3-4 years, companies don't want to replace a whole farm if they can't get the replacement parts anymore.
I hope that Bambu will keep providing these, but they don't have a track record yet.
Do a google search - "X1C Y axis bearing replacement" and you will understand why the X1C is not fully user serviceable. Its a pity Bambu chose to assemble some parts of their products in a way that prohibits user serviceability, I really hope they will deviate from this path in the future.
"I'm going to assert a definitive negative statement about something I'm telling you I have no knowledge about" Said every reasonable unbias person ever...
Seriously though... did you honestly edit this video and think "Gee Im honestly representing the facts and helping people buy printers" or "Im totally okay parroting off something someone else said, that will help people make a good decision"
I cannot see a European company being happy about the waste the Bambu spits out. Theres a reason the Prusa XL exists. When they bring multicolour for less than 4 grand I have a feeling it will be targeting exactly that issue, and that would absolutely make me sit up. I HATE the waste involved in colour 3D printing like Bambu does it
You would need to print over a ton of just WASTE to get the break even cost of the XL.
And this is before the XL pushing out a gram of plastic.
The Waste argument has be debunked, with math for a while now.
If you hate waste print single color and paint., Tf you truly hate plastic waste stop FDM printing altogether as all printers waste filament in some capacity. From the plastic the rolls come in, to purge lines, skits, brims, supports, failed prints, benchies and so on.
Even a Prusa fanboy like me, must accept the fact that Prusa just ain't leading the market at this point.
They still have many good aspects, but they have been sitting on their hands for too many years until they released the MK4.
The relase of Core One isn't a fix to the challenges they face.
However, I hope it's the beginning of a new chapter that MIGHT bring them back to a place among the leading pack.
I hope that improvements to Core One will follow in rapid succession with features like:
- A native and integrated camera,
- automated flow calibration,
- actively heated chamber,
- higher extruder and bed temperatures.
- Prusa LINK functionality at the level of Prusa Connect.
Also, a lot of great features have existed in Orca for some time and only a few are slowly finding their way to Prusa Slicer (Alpha).
Tools for easier filament tuning are still missing in Alpha, but it is nice to finally have multi-beds and paint-on fuzzy skin.
I have a friend who buys 3D printers for work, and I recommended them the Bambu Lab X1C or P1S/P, but they couldn't do it because they cannot connect it to the internet. It is actually a feature worth mentioning.
Then you could just get the X1E for that exact reason. 🤷🏻♂️
He said if a bambu fails after 1000 hours he will just replace it. I have an mk3s+ with 274 days of printing, that is 6500 hours and as far as I'm concerned it is better than it was when I bought it, because it arrived as an mk3, then upgraded to s, then s+ not to mention firmware updates over the years. 1000 hours is a joke for a machine to become a paperweight.
Exactly, 1000hr is a joke, I'm glad that most people with bambu are easily over 5k hours with no problems. I'm glad people never extrapolate the results of small sampling to talk about things in general!
Oh
He said that but he didn't call support yet either.
Yeah, its a joke that his two $1500 printers are now paperweights with under 1k hrs. What is this? Creality?
@@LilApe true!! don't buy them, buy prusa for 2x-3x the price of p1s and it will deeeeeeeefinitely outlive p1s, and all these crowds of people that are happy with bambu lab are just wrong, and don't understand that they don't like the thing they say they like. They are saying that p1s works great and reliable, but it doesn't. We, prusa users know better. Totally!!
It is funny Prusa is "lagging behind", but I am not really sure what that is supposed to mean? Both Babu and Prusa are on non-generative platforms, while Prusa rather should focusing on Printables, as that is their real edge. Even if they lost their entire printer production, but managed to move over to Printables and work with industry to grow that, as a business, they will be king. By far. The question is if they grab that chance, while they still can.
"Non-generative platforms"? Huh?
How is Printables an advantage? Bambu's Maker World is growing steadily, it's just a matter of time before the user base is equal or even larger.
@@builditwithadam No. The facts say otherwise. Might change in a few years, but that is simply flat out false, as of now.
@@Jürgen-u5o Sure. Generative platforms stimulate innovation as in people improving the platform in new and unexpected ways. Babu is only succeeding, because of lack of vision and innovation in the business. but their platform is locked down, and them logg files, leaves an absolute ton to be desired. The orange team has their own issues. I cannot use a REVO on my MKIII, because that would mess the PID up. Everything is getting locked down.
Klipper is the platform that currently drives almost all innovation in the field. Because it is generative.
yeah, maker world is already damn near as big as printables in this short amount of time. Next.
Dead bed = new fear unlocked. Just measured my P1S bed and it is plus or minus 0.015mm @ 55°C for all 36 probing points.
Picked up a MK4 kit early last year, then learned about Bambu Labs while my MK4 was shipping.
I hadn't super been into the hobby since mid-end 2020 (IDK when Bambu started / got popular), but if I learned about them sooner, it would've made my decision to get a MK4 harder.
Currently, I'm happy with my MK4, now upgraded to the MK4S (Still unsure if the upgrade was worth 100 bucks though)
I'm going to do the Core1 conversion, but unless I happen to get a great tax return, I'll wait till next BlackFriday, or for the 1-year anniversary to get it on some kind of sale (or maybe some kind of filament bundle)
My first printer was an Anet A8, second a Monoprice Select Mini V2 (as a cheap second-hand backup printer), and third was an Anycubic 4Max.
About 2-3 years ago I got a used Prusa Mini, and quickly fell in love with how reliable it was, so that pushed me to get a MK4 earlier this year. I've definitely moved away from tinkering, and now just wanting a machine that works.
it's irrelevant to weigh in on the buying options before the printer is in the wild and properly reviewed. Ideally, one would wait to see Bambu's next printer also. And the whole reparability is not worth it angle ... yeah, that's bad, really bad.
I started on an ender3 V1, but after many years of that love/hate relationship, it was time to upgrade. My deciding factors were build size and ability to print more exotic filaments. I decided on a Qidi Plus4 and so far, its been flawless. I did replace my SSR board since I live in the US, but that was super easy. I knew about the flaw before I bought it, so it was a nonissue. Multi color is coming next month!
I have had literally the same issues with my machines. New heatbed took me 17-20 mins to replace (i took my time and cleaned a few bits at the back and inside). Force sensor i had to change a cable once second time a board at the back and some extra bits. However you can just change the whole heatbed it you want to be quick and lazy. I got one free and one i just purchased from their shop. 20 minutes each if your a first timer (me) but you are waaay more experienced
@@alycapo3391 that’s really good to know! Thank you for sharing.
I like the Maraton 3D printer with the IDEX, but I am not a fan of the extruder. (I don't have a Maraton).
I was happy to see the possibility of upgrading from a MK4 to a Core one. And I have to say, that most of the time the buildplate area is enough. And the printer just works out of the box.
While I view the Prusa as premium product, I actually think they managed to keep the price reasonable considering the feature set. Is it the best deal on the market? Definitely not. I think Qidi probably has the sweet spot for price to high performance. That said, for printing mostly PLA and easier filaments, there are many better deals. Pros and cons to every brand, but I think the Prusa should be in consideration for anyone who wants a well supported, reliable, repairable machine which isn't totally made in China.
Prusa was a industry leader with their bedslingers. Their tech support is 2nd to none. Their open source commitment is unrivaled. However I could never justify their costs as just an average guy. I got tired of fixing/upgrading my bedslingers to better hotends, motherboards, software etc and quit 3d printing a few years ago. I just ordered my new printer to try it again. I ordered a new Creality K2+ Its as close as I can to what I want. I get a 350 sqaured volume heated chamber and high quality core X-Y and get Creality's mostly open source commitment. I'm not tied to their slicer or their "cloud", unlike Bambu. Its much less money than a Core One and yet much larger build volume, heated for newer hi temp filaments, etc. I expect Bambu's New model coming in 2025 will be a monster. We shall see. Im no pro just a guy that likes making things for myself and friends. I am probably not Prusa's customer target.
My big issue is that to get a core one here in the states its something like 1500 dollars. That's like 2-3 p1's. You could print a lot with with those extra printers, and as a consumer you don't need the X1c's extra fancy stuff. As a business, 3 p1's is a lot more potential throughput. The value proposition just isn't there anymore. A few years ago when I got my first ender 3 my dream machine was a prusa, but its hard to justify now. I recently got my hands on a P1 and am happy with its performance so far, my days of dreaming about an mk3 are behind me now
ive been torn on trying to make this decision myself.
i have been leaning toward the Core One simply because of Prusa's overwhelmingly positive reputation and their incredible support ...
however, money is always a factor, no matter what anyone tries to say. obviously, everyone wants to get the most bang for the buck, which is where the Bambu Lab X1C shines brightly.
the S upgrade for the Prusa XL will be the deciding factor. if they can keep the cost to upgrade an existing XL minimal they will certainly keep their lead. Personally I preferred Prusa always due to upgradability and support. Bambu is just a chinese company who used already developed open-source technologies in their closed system and sweatshop labor to keeps prices low. If you care about literally anything other than the price Prusa is still the long term victor. Hopefully for them this is only a temporary setback that forces the to speed up whatever innovation they have in development.
My situation is. I have a ratrig. 300x300. It's fast and reliable but I'm relying on myself for diagnosing issues. I was about to buy an x1c but a few local people had issues right from the box. One person had the issue of the printer restarting during the night and wrecking the toolhead. They still haven't been sent replacement parts.
I've always seen prusa as stability and reliability with good support. I wish the prusa was 250x250. But due to the bed size. I might have to keep my ratrig.
Another plus for the core one is the size. It's a good form factor. No wasted space. It has a significantly smaller foot print which is a big seller for me. The bambu labs is massive in x and y size. Maybe not in stats but it can't fit on my desk but the prusa can.
11:52 What are you talking about @YGK3D ?
the whole Core machine has every lesson learned from the XL in its design and firmware.
Is the reason they are now so proud of how simple and rigid the tiny CoreXY on the Core is, because is more challenging to take apart the XL gantry.
The Core It cannot be a toolchanger (yet, I hope) but the whole buddy electronics, load cell, input shaper, phase stepping calibration, the Core XY gantry, were all first developed and tested in the XL and the AFS.
The Prussa support and upgrade ability are the main pros. Prussa won’t “Apple” you.
While I love the Prusa upgrade path that they do (presuming continues with the Core 1) and the open source nature... I hear maintenance and repairs of the Bambu really isn't that bad.
X1C is reasonably repairable. I’ve replaced micro lidar and camera. The only problem is that you’ve to do a bit of digging yourself unlike Prusa where info is super available.
0:34 Happy to see my B-Roll being put to good use :) Excited to watch the rest of the video :)
Wish he would refuse to ever mention your channel given your endorsement of geno-side.
With the incoming tarrif on goods imorted from china, and that the Prusa will soon be build is the US these price points may become a mute point.
I would like to see your customer service experiences with trying to repair those faulty Bamboo, most people do not have the option of just throwing away a printer.
@@garytfish that will tip the scale for sure. Will be interesting to see how the prices compare once the dust settles.
I definitely wouldn’t just throw the printers in the bin but might consider selling them for cheap as is to someone with more time that is willing to repair them. I might consider making a video about the repair process if there’s interest in it.
@@ygk3d The force sensor is $5 and the heat bed is $120. There are step by instructions linked on the product page.
You have videos showing the Prusa XL build so I can imagine it isnt a skill issue. Michael from teaching tech has a fantastic debunking video on Bambu repairs so to give up without even an attempt is odd. Would you toss your Prusa machines if a part fails? If I remember you went through a ton of videos troubleshooting,repairing and even kludging together fixes for your Prusa machines.
@ thanks. Definitely not giving up. Just saying they’re not usable without repairs and haven’t had time or desire to dive into that yet. I didn’t mean to imply that they are permanent paperweights.
If they (Prusa) can make a better MMU/AMS setup, I’m in but the AMS is just soooo easy to use, or at least have 2 heads on a changer at a reasonable price….
My Ender 6 and Troodon get very little use these days…. They may be on the chopping block…..
My point of view: The MMU is less wasteful and more flexible than the AMS. It doesn't limit you in regards to spool sizes or materials. You can keep sensitive filaments in their dryboxes and you don't have to take it apart if humid PLA breaks in the tubes. Filament changes are also a lot faster with an MMU.
@@ulaB The MMU3 works great and is fast, but they need to get rid of that janky buffer. Loading the MMU is a PITA. I've removed the buffer and added Filamentalist self-rewinding spool holders. Makes loading as easy as the AMS even if your spools are sitting in a dry box, and they are motorless, driven by the filament itself using a one-way bearing. Not gonna work well with TPU I suppose, but you can't have it all.
@@kaasmeester5903 Get rid of the buffer and use gravity instead. I had my spools on the floor for a long time and the buffer was the space between table and floor. Worked better than any other solution. :-)
@@ulaB Heh, I did that too for a while. But I wanted my spools in a dry box, and using gravity will expose some filament to moist air when retracted. Unless I am doing actual color printing, I use the MMU to be able to select from my most often used filaments, or do inlaid text. Also, having the drybox on the wall behind the printer makes it very easy to swap spools. The Filamentalist spool holders have worked very well so far.
not even trying to repair the x1 is insane
Both my Bambu A1 and A1 mini are just north of 1000 hours with no issues. I just want to print stuff and not futz with the hardware, so I'm super happy with my printers. The only thing I've had to replace is the original .4 mm nozzle that shipped with my mini, although a couple of the loaders on my AMS lite are getting harder to load, but I already purchased replacements for them. Seems like there are plenty of spare parts you can purchase and replace, so I don't expect to just throw them away when I do run into issues...
Now, that Prusa is here with an affordable Corexy machine, and knowing it will bring the Prusa quality AND if the print-quality will be as good as the A1's, I would buy the Core One.
Be interesting to see what happens to the market in the US if any of the tariffs come into effect.
What the market needs is competition. If the leading company in a market can afford to stagnate, they often will-- look at what Intel did before AMD came out with Ryzen
I think for me, I'd go with the Prusha. I have a P1S that is my go to workhorse, so if I'm going to spend the extra cash for a new printer, I'd want it to at least be a more modern offering.
That being said, as much as I respect Prusha, Bambu has absolutely earned their praise. TLDR: Prusha for new, until Bambu offers newer.
Barely hinted at in this Bambu v. Prusa religious war video is the other manufacturers who have been seriously upping their game recently - Elegoo, Sovol, Creality, etc. I don't own a FlashForge but they're making good quality, innovative and reliable printers as well. What I want to see is an open source upgrade to add 1-5 tool heads to an open source SV08 for fast and little to no poop filament swap.
so how exactly does the core one have better longevity ?
you can literally repair the entire bambulab, you just have to get the parts from bambulab, and considering the Core one is now closed source you'll have to buy majority of the parts directly from Prusa.
you'll have to explain that one to me.
While it’s not perfect I have been really happy with my Prusa xl 5 head with the enclosure. The ability to have very different temperatures, nozzles, and frankly redundant print heads. (I admit I melted the petg parts when I tried a long polycarbonate print in a third party enclosure.) But it was simple to print replacements with a remaining head out of pc-cf and be back printing in no time. And after getting the official enclosure it’s been smooth sailing. To me Prusa while not perfect has been my go to. Most of my complaints are me missing things that I had on my voron. Which has been in a perpetual state of upgrade since I got it to learn 3d printing while waiting for the xl to release. I have nothing against the bambu printers or company but I would rather buy a Prusa for the old school support. I worry that without a Prusa around Bambu might choose to go the inkjet printer route further undercutting everyone on the printer but making up for that loss by doing everything possible to keep you using their filaments. Which could stifle innovation in the consumer market.
Already have a Mk4S - so yeah upgrading to the Core One. I do like having a device I can modify and repair easily. Hopefully with future models Prusa can make a better case for their printers with the general public.
5:57 - I don't get the point of saying this. The conversion kit is for people who already have a Mk4S. Why would anybody consider buying both the Mk4S and the conversion kit together?
I feel like it would make more sense just to sell the MK4S (or keep it) and buy a new Core One. It seems like you’re overpaying for a Core One going the upgrade route.
@@ygk3d I see. I guess I don't want to go to the hassle of selling my printer, and I don't really print in volumes that justify owning two printers. It's for personal use, I'm not running a farm or a business.
Therefore - I consider the cost of the Mk4S I already own as "sunk." I already own the Mk4, so I don't consider its cost in addition to the cost of the Core One.
If the Bambu's are paperweights, you can send them to me. I'll pay shipping and handling. I'd hate for them to take up space in your print farm.
Having built a couple of MK3s+ printers in the past, I'm very excited for the Core One kit. I know it's not for everyone, but being able to build your own printer (a happy middle ground between pre-built and full-send projects like the Vorons) is an experience that really appeals to me - and one that no other company currently offers. I don't think it's a game changer; but it looks like a well thought out, polished, and capable machine.
@@GabrielPalileo that’s a good perspective! There’s a reason people like Lego. It’s a structured exercise with clear instructions. Personally I don’t feel the desire to put any more printers together but perhaps at another stage of my life I’ll feel differently. On the other hand, the new Prusa machines (XL for sure, and presumably Core One) don’t actually require that much building. They’re mostly pre-assembled, not compete kits. So it might not be the complete DIY experience some people are seeking.
@@ygk3dI also don't want to spend hours building another printer. There's also the potential for mistakes, which I've done in the past and which can take hours to troubleshoot at times.
Flashforge, meanwhile, is producing on par quality prints at a third of the price of either of them, and their multi color printer will be under 400 at this point. Yes the bed is smaller, but I doubt they'll be stuck to that size for much longer
MK4 upgraded to MK4S with input shaping already beats X1C Carbon in speed over quality. And Core One should be even faster than MK4S. Let's see in January when first Core ones will be shipped. One thing is certain - Prusa with this release prepared very stressful Christmas time for Bambu engineers.
I wouldn't buy an X1C. I'd buy a P1S and pay $40 for a hardened nozzle and extruder. Nobody needs the lidar and 1080p camera for a $400 premium.
i ended up buying a prusa mk4s. The thing works really well. A lot of what turned me off from the bambulabs x1c was its reliance on the cloud and the amount of poop the AMS produces, it's also rather large and noisy. Also, when trying to find cons for each machine i noticed the bambu labs user base tended to be less helpful. Even in the comment section for this video there's comments calling out your credibility but not a whole lot of people encouraging you to do the work to fix the printers or speaking up and about their experience replacing the parts you need to replace.
If you ask me though, prusa needs to move on from the consumer market. You can't compete with the cost of producing 3D printers in China.
Weird how you ignore the biggest brand and wich prusa cloned the Kore 1ne from. They have now the k2.
A lot of these comparisons sound to me like the two printers are supposed to somehow be equivalent things aimed at identical potential customers. This is partially true, there are surely people for whom both would work about the same. But there are others.
There are people with no technical knowhow who do not want to learn how the thing actually works would never even try to service their printer. Recommend them a Bambu printer and let them throw it away when it breaks. When it works it has the best chance of working right for a user like that. And there is a good chance that by the time it breaks a newer version with some (supposedly) groundbreaking feature will be on the market and very likely "on sale" most of the time so this kind of user will not even be all that mad about the old one breaking down.
There are people who like to do something specific that requires a slight customization of the hardware, or maybe just a crazy weird printing profile. Don't even try to sell them a glued together printer with closed firmware etc. Let them have something like a Prusa that can take all that experimentation and when you break it by experimenting the manufacturer still helps you fix it. And you have a good chance spare parts will be available for it six years later and not intentinally priced over half the price of a new printer.
There are people who for whatever reason absolutely cannot connect the printer to a network. Their company IT security won't let them, or they are paranoid, or whatever. A printer that loses none of its functionality except having to manually transport print files to it is the right choice for them. And having a physically removable wireless module clearly aims at those customers and might be the only modern printer they can buy.
Overall I like that Prusa did not try to just straight copy all the features Bambulab has to make their new printer competitive. I like that they made the new thing be still a Prusa with all the things typical for those and that instead they focused on offering various properties the competition does not have. To target potential customers who would otherwise maybe even buy a Bambu printer but would hate something about it.
And as an engineer I admire the design for how they figured out how to keep it user-serviceable to the last bolt while making sure thing go back together aligned square etc. It is one thing to design a printer to be assembled exclusively by trained personel using special jigs and it is a completely different game to make it designed for both fast factory assembly and possible to assemble with just basic tools at home. And it looks like they figured out how to do this while keeping the cost reasonable by using a lot of laser cut and bent sheet metal. And on top of that the printer still looks elegant and not totally industrial despite using such design. Personally I like the balance they have achieved. I suspect many people will not like that as much but also many will.
Personally I will not be buying either Bambu or Prusa for myself. I have a 500x500x500 Rat Rig printer, so all those 200-something mm beds seem tiny now that I have gotten used to printing 4kg 600x500x100 parts and similar. And compared how hard assembling, wiring and configuring a V-Core 3.1 used to be assembling the new Prusa kit will be a toy for toddlers 🙂. It would still be fun but all over in a few hours, not days, and you don't even need to study the CAD model to put it together 🙂.
"Forcing all other printers to catch up." Now see, you have to consider the design "restrictions" we (US/UK MFG) have to work around, called PATENTS. We would have loved to include nozzle probing, purchasable enclosures, LiDAR, etc etc; but alas, our attorneys and management simply doesn't want to be sued. So we are told no, and cannot innovate to the level that Bambu just gave the middle finger to patents and did everything their way, with zero support. Now, you are telling us we are "too little, too late." That's not the phrase to use here. US/UK mfgs are forced to comply to patent law, and stay away from patent infringements while BambuLabs has not. That's an unfair statement. But all in all, it depends if you want support or not: you said it yourself, the Bambus are paperweights because of the LOE it will take to fix/tinker with them; whereas our US/UK mfgs have great post-purchase support, for years on warranty (well, maybe not Prusa past 1yr).
This is utter FUD, and basic view of the landscape shows this. For instance Prusa violates most of the patents Bambu is accused of violating and Prusa as well as many brands do nozzle based probing.
Further more there are certainly other ways to implement what the LiDAR of Bambulabs does without violating patents. These are xenophobic excuses.
Would love a printer that is less tall, say 30x30x15, and that takes two filament spools of the same color and automatically uses whichever has less filament.
If you don't have time to even raise 2 support tickets on the bambu handy app, maybe its time you hire more staff to assist you. Or donate the printers to non-commercial users who could spend the time to fix them and then have a great asset for a new hobby.
I broadly agree with most of this video, but I do have two objections.
First, comparing the RRP of the Core 1 to the *sale* price of the X1C is hardly apples-to-apples. Indeed, the final question "would you rather have a Core 1 or an X1C Combo" is either pure bias, or a deliberately inflamatory statement intended to drive the TH-cam algorithm. Either way, the effect is to reduce the value I put on your statements, because you've gone out of your way to make an unbalanced comparison. Even if that wasn't your intent, it strongly implies that you have a preference and you want us all to agree with it.
Second, I strongly disagree that the existence of 3d printing hobbyists who have no interest in tinkering with the machine itself is *new*. It's just that until Bambu came along, no-one had actually built a printer that catered to our needs. (Yes, I'm a "It just works" person. My 3d printer is like my drill press - a tool, not a project.) The internet is littered with stories of people buying a 3d printer, giving up, and letting it rot in their closet. Bambu built a printer *for* that person, and did it well, and dragged the rest of the industry up to a higher level.
Outside of those objections, I agree. Bambu did disrupt the industry, that disruption is good for us all, and the Core 1 is Prusa only just catching up even as Bambu prepares to step forward again. I also agree that Bambu has outgrown its ability to really support the customer. I'm an X1C kickstarter backer - in fact, I think I had the third or fourth X1C in all of Canada. And there were some issues with the early printers - but the customer service was excellent, when it was all new and the demand was relatively small. I've had to work with their service again more recently, and while they did do their best, the answers were clearly not nearly as knowlegable and the response time was much, much longer.
Which is why I'd lean towards the Core 1, assuming it does all it's promising when it arrives, if I were buying a printer today. Certainly if I was suggesting a printer to a beginner! Because Prusa *has* the customer service team in place, and the shipping and support infrastructure in place, and Bambu's still isn't up to speed. The prices for the actual printers are the same. (Multi-colour through the same nozzle is a gimmick, IMO.) Historically Prusa rarely puts their printers on sale, true - but historically they rarely need to. I'd not be at all shocked if next Black Friday there was a race to minimum price between Bambu and Prusa. So. The prices are the same. The features are similar. The Core 1 looks a little easier to use; the X1C has a somewhat larger build volume (though I suspect for most people, not significantly so.) The real differentiator here is the customer support, and Prusa is going to be much better at helping a new user than Bambu, at least for the next few years. So, with all else being equal, buy the customer support.
Having an existing 3D-Print farm, what performance increase is required to make it worthwhile to replace existing equipment? Do you have a percentage in the back of you head? IMHO, a one-up here and there isn't enough. Have to admit, it's a beautiful machine and offers lots of great benefits. I am just the wrong customer atm. Without Bambu in the marketplace, would the Core One even exist? Besides, the release of Bambu's next generation will likely stir-up the industry once again.