The Critical Drinker- "What makes a good character is a writer's respect and investment in the character. They're well written, flawed and relatable." Disney/CBS- "You want us to respect white male privilege?"
"I know there is still good in you" Luke said to his father, cyborg laser space Hitler. There's no way he'd just go and try and kill his nephew like that no way.
He sees the good inside the most proficient killer in all galactic history but was willing to kill his nephew because of a bad dream. Doesn't make sense at all.
@@Jack-kx5rf A good thing sequel trilogy Luke or "Jake" as Mark Hamill called him doesn't live in the Nightmare on Elm Street world. He'd kill the Springwood kids for having nightmares about Freddy Krueger.
@@MrXandervm Yeah, that's exactly.. you've got at least 4-movies-worth of the franchise showing Vader in all his darkness... and Luke still believes he's redeemable. Compare that with a few seconds of a dream sequence sequence for Ren, and Luke's logic becomes a mystery box.
The problem for the plotting of the film is that the obvious solution to explaining why Luke and Ben Solo fell out would have essentially been a replay of the final showdown between Obiwan Kenobe and Anakin Skywalker, and suddenly the writers wanted to stop ripping off the original trilogy
No, it was because she (as the character was written) was a pompous MarySue. When Judy Dench's character "M" died in Skyfall, I cried my eyes out. Her character was well written and well acted. The Captain Marvel character was 2 dimensional at best and a victim of crappy writing, timing and wooden acting. I would have cheered her demise.
@@LRTrack woosh But seriously, nobody cared that Luke Skywalker or Leia died either. Because neither of them were the characters that fans were familiar with. Any newcomers couldn't be emotionally attached to them either, because these films failed to make them legit interesting. Hell, I'd argue the same is true for the treatment of Han. I sincerely hope a new trilogy is released with just Luke, Han, and Lando. They can say they are avenging the death of Leia, it's fine. Just actually give us those characters instead of a scant shade of who they're supposed to be.
Tacking onto what I just replied, Chewbacca's "death" could have been legit "heart-rending" if they had stuck with it rather than backpedaling, because at least Chewbacca was in all three movies had became a legit character.
The “boy scout” protagonist is often made more interesting when the world is not only constantly beating against their moral foundation, but also when the choice of doing the right thing costs them. It allows the audience to connect with them when get to see how much the hero must sacrifice of themselves to do what is right. A quippy character may be more fun minute to minute on screen, but a well written, upright character can rise to tell a story that’s overall more impactful. A character’s selling point should never ever ever EVER be their race, sex, or who they like to sleep with. That’s a billboard sign of a weak, shallow character.
as a writer, i've never received that feedback. it's always "make your heroes flawed. we want someone who acts morally reprehensible and still thinks of themselves as a decent person." it's sickening, and it makes me doubt that people really do like morally righteous protagonists like Luke Skywalker (especially when people were wholesale trashing him up until 2017)
Sauce Boss before TLJ, all I ever heard was that he was a whiner and a boyscout, and it made me ashamed to admit that I liked him. Then 2017 came and out of the woodwork, the same people who trashed him are saying that they “always loved him since day one.” And all I can say is “where the hell were you before TLJ? Why were your voices silent when Luke was being trashed by mainstream opinions?”
That's the way the world should be, but the very loud people are obsessed with tribalism. Sticking people into categories based on superficial features, segregating them then deriving moral integrity based on those vague categories.
B-but She-Ra fanbase claims that who characters want to sleep with is _all that matters._ Personalities, goals and characters arcs don't need to be consistent or even exist as long as we know exactly who everyone wants to fuck. And that show got a fifth season, so it can't be wrong! This is logical thought!
Luke spent most of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back getting his ass handed to him. The Tusken Raiders kick his ass, the guy in the cantina kicks his ass, the garbage compactor monster kicks has ass and Han has to save him from Darth Vader kicking his ass in the Death Star trench. In Empire the Wompa kicks his ass, Yoda kicks his ass, and Darth Vader kicks his ass, again. Compare that to Rey who endlessly......wins.....every.....single.....time...........yawn
Damn, didn't realize just how much Luke got his ass handed to him before. Ha. Also, never could get into the sequel trilogy either. I saw The Force Awakens twice, The Last Jedi once because I was bored and it was on Netflix, and have yet to see The Rise of Skywalker.
Luke can see and fight an invisible droid a few hours into learning the force, in the first movie. He's a farm boy who happens to be the best pilot in the universe having (never?) flown a spaceship. The Tuskan raiders "kicked his ass" but there isn't a mark on him and it doesn't hurt, it's not even an important part of the plot. "The guy in the cantina" doesn't kick anyone's ass, he acts tough and gets his arm hacked off. Even the Wompa only gives him a scar, and who won that one? The only character who even delays Luke's march to the end is Yoda. Getting his hand cut off should have been an obstacle, but they have robo-hands and the plot carries on towards the inevitable "good guys win" conclusion. I keep looking for this incredible story and amazing characters in Star Wars who undergo "development" through "difficulty," but the films keep showing a lazily written cash grab.
@@michaelmccrady6457 There was a good Star Wars film? I suppose Empire was okay, because a director got a hold of it and it wasn't the George Lucas show, but brainless entertainment seems the most the films can offer. Not complaining, I bought the toys when I was a kid and got my money's worth (mostly) at the box office and blu-ray. I don't need the new films to conform to my own personal nostalgic view of them. I lost the nostalgia feel with the ewoks. If I still had any, the drones, midichlorians and plot of the Phantom Menace killed what was left. The sequels were bad, and the originals weren't much better. Hell, I'm madder about Greedo shooting than I could ever get about sequel 7 8 and 9 out of any franchise. Imagine getting that wrapped up in the last few installments of "Friday the Thirteenth" (not that there aren't people who do).
"But by the final film, he's learned to temper his power with wisdom, compassion and restraint." That is so true! Return of the Jedi *is* the final Star Wars film
There could have been so much more...we could have had "the Adventures of Luke Skywalker" or a good 7, 8, 9, if Lucas had actually cared. Anything along those lines would have gotten the respect and adoration it deserved....Instead...George had delusions of grandeur, and made the prequels. Which, could have been made NOW and would have been amazing.
@@danmanx2 as if those films were bad because of the things you fear. What's wrong with putting a foot down for justice? What's wrong with being pro women? Enerving individuals don't make the opposite a better option. I guess if your son turns out to be gay you will go mental.
I'm gonna agree and take your statement a bit further. The original trilogy told a story of beloved characters and what role they played in the destruction of an evil empire so that a fair republic could be rebuilt. Their appearance, as much as fans would want wasn't needed to further the Star Wars saga. What happened to those characters afterward could be told as new plots unfold and new WELL WRITTEN characters are introduced. As long as those beloved characters were treated with respect in that telling I believe the fans would have been satisfied.
"You know what audiences want?" "Purple haired admirals in evening gowns breaking the rules of the previous cinematic world building by doing idiotic things?" "Exactly."
Admiral Holdo could have worked if she was an actual asshole officer. But the director wanted us to root for that piece of shit instead. Honestly, it would be more enjoyable if Holdo got her head bashed in at the end of the movie. It would be so satisfying. But no, the director wanted her to be a hero so they came up with a made-up tactic(hyperspace ramming should not have worked, or if it does, it shouldn't have been effective) just to make her look good. Now we're all wondering why didn't the Rebel Alliance in Episode 4 send every single nebulons or GR-75 medium transports they have and rammed them all into the fuckin Death Star like a missile. Why didn't the Empire just hyperspace ram Hoth using a single star destroyer. Its cheaper than a ground invasion and less complicated. Why didn't the Rebels in Episode 6 used the lambda they stole and hyperspace ram the fucking shield generator on the surface of Endor. In the Clone Wars Series, during the Ryloth Campaign, why didn't Anakin Skywalker just hyperspace ram the Lucrehulk(Droid Control ship) using the Venator? If he did that, Ahsoka wouldn't have needed to neutralize the rest of the fleet since hyperspace ramming is so effective that it can also damage the other ships next to it apparently.
@@aaroncabatingan5238 Modern movies just love to solve conflict with new tools. StarTrek has hyperspace beaming, magic blood and black-hole juice. MCU has "quantum realm" and timetravel. The Loki-show had tenpads, reality bombs and the "Oh yeah, your personal magic abilities arbitrarily don't work in this random space" or movie-devices that conveniently montage character arcs... StarWars has hyperspace suddenly being able to avoid shields, loose opponents AND turn into a deadly weapon. Good thing they don't have autonomous robots or remote-control options to turn any ship into a projectile weapon - on top of their general refusal to using projectile weapons and instead favor much slower easy-to-track energy weapons.
@@Shuizid thing is... the fans would probably be able to forgive all that if the characters of the story were compelling, but even those they have to ruin. Where Anakin's tale was about a talented being refusing to go the hard way of serious and long jedi training and ultimately falling to his own desires, making his downfall a story of talent without discipline (in a very simplified way, please don't crucify me), Rey's tale would be about a talented individual succeeding in doing everything the hardworking ones couldn't do with minimal training, thus portraying the message of talent being more important than effort. Their message is terrible, the characters are terrible and therefore we look to consistency to somehow find anything to like about our childhood franchise, but even there they miss the mark by a landslide
@@v.e.l.pianist7848 Oh the yeah fans would totally forgive that. Because it's just background fluff. Worldbuilding is a nice intellectual exercise but most people don't watch movies for intellectual work but to feel with the characters. Hence Harry Potter is popular despite it's world just being horrible. Because people focus on the maincast expiriencing this magical world with all it's wonders and unique ideas - not on the logistic of turning a deathtrap into a school (among many MANY other things). Modern movies are seemingly written by idiots who have trouble even spelling the word "arc". Anakin had an arc, which was bogged down by horribly movie decisions. Rey had no arc.
@@Shuizid Yeah, absolutely right and I don’t necessarily need a professor in engineering to develop theoretical concepts that could 100% work for the universe, it just needs to be consistent in itself. Like you have Robots that are virtually identically to humans and hyperadvanced computers in general, there is obviously no reason to having to control a spaceship yourself. Also why do they keep doing things like acting as if Shields are impenetrable no matter how long they’re shot at, you can’t create or destroy energy, that’s one of the fundamental laws of existence, the shields will have to be overloaded at some point or the fact that they could only deflect energy weapons while it had been made obvious that physical objects (WHICH WOULD INCLUDE BULLETS) can pass through them so why does nobody give up the dumbass lasers even though they aren’t even more capable than regular rifles, at least in moments like this you’d expect it. and why tf can’t the star destroyer fleet in RoS just go up lmao
One thing is for sure: Lucasfilm under Disney does NOT understand characters (either why the old ones were successful, or how to build new ones). I can't think of a single character in the SW sequels that had an interesting and coherent arc. Lots of potential in Ep 7 that all went down the toilet in Ep 8, and the disaster was forever sealed with Ep 9.. I couldn't agree more with the summary made of Luke Skywalker here. He was an effective, well-written, and relatable archetype simply completing the hero's journey. Well done, Drinker!
@@jamespell1138 Yeah Kylo was honestly the closest one to be a real decent character, but there are too many inconsistencies with his choices/actions that by the end I couldn't really grasp why he ended up where he did. He was doubtful in Ep 7, took control of his evil destiny in Ep 8, and the script did a complete 180 in Ep 9 not because he realized he had been duped all along by Palpatine (uuugh), not because someone made him understand that the whole thing with Luke was a misunderstanding (uuuuuuuuggh), but because.. Rey healed him and Leia died and he had a memory of Han (???). Seriously, I'm not even joking here, why did he decide to team up with Rey and turn on the First Order despite promises of absolute power (which was always his goal)?
Classic Luke: successfully reasons with a mass-murdering evil cyborg wizard because he believes there's still some humanity left inside the monster. Woke Luke: goes to live on a remote island and drink green milk straight from the alien boob because he failed to murder his sleeping teenage nephew who was having some angsty thoughts. There's no need to decanonise shitty sequels when they are clearly not part of the original canon to begin with.
I wouldn't say woke but more of a deconstructed character so that fans can think maybe he wasn't the hero they thought was. Fans would rather of seen a Luke that reached out and tried to help ben but was to late. People would like Luke that way because it would mean Luke is still the hopeful and optimistic character we love and not a depressed asshole who has given up on the jedi
@person person He didn’t try to murder a child in sleep because he got cold feet though And it’s obviously just a carbon copy of yoda anyway, the "lost master that needs to be found in a remote location". With the difference that Rey, of course, was already perfect anyway before so there literally was no reason for her to go there if you recall the events. Her character at the end is virtually identical to the beginning of TFA, where is the character development? What has she learned except approval about being perfect already? Sorry, a little bit of a tangent there
@person person So to prevent him from murdering children he’d murder children? This is exactly how a Sith would think, not a Jedi, and much less Luke. There’s a way to make him believably be more bitter but this here is before he had secluded himself away from everyone, so it comes off completely random why he acts so impulsive, bitter and unwise. Even if Luke was 100% convinced that something evil is taking hold of Kylo, HE HAS SEEN HIS OWN FATHER, THE GREATEST SERVANT UNDER THE EMPIRE FOR DECADES, KILL THE EMPEROR BEFORE HIS VERY OWN EYES! There is no reason to assume he wouldn’t search for the good in Kylo or at least try to make that side overpower the dark side. He believed in his father at the most unlikely of times, this character was hope incarnate, like Mark Hamill said, and we hadn’t gotten a reason to assume why he’d change like this during his time at the new jedi order.
@person person How tf are you getting confused here, I don’t think I’ve been subtle or ambiguous in any way. This is an example of character assassination put to film here
@@carybeweary7209 Mammon is "money" in the New Testament. The quote basically means either serve your moral compass (virtuous) or serve your greed (money), you can't have both.
Luke character finished with me in 83' coming out of the dominion theatre London . I'll always have that, a audience standing up cheering for the boy who became a jedi knight. Destroying a empire
@@justineharper3346 return of the Jedi ran for the whole summer in 83' it used to cost a pound and fifty to see it. i went once on my own a afternoon the whole cinema was mine sat right in the middle. and in those old cinemas the screens were very wide so the speeder chase through the Endor forest was amazing
Holy shit! Ive forgotten about movie-theatre audiences applauding the ending . Havent been but once in decades,& watching the Drinkers reviews reminds me why
I am not white nor male and yet I feel for Luke Skywalker. I can empathize with him. I don't want him to lose. I want him triumphant. Meanwhile I don't give a damn about Rey, Shrek Tico, Vice Admiral Gender Studies or Captain Sociopathy. They can all die horribly and I wouldn't feel the slightest.
Rose. Such a pishy character. Basically just an extra shoehorned in so Finn had someone to talk to. Never stood a chance. I really do feel sorry for the actress, she was given a bucketful of shit to work with. Or Laura Dern, she did an excellent job. Aloof, sexist, condescending, secretive, unlikeable. She portrays all that brilliantly. I mean for godssakes she's so unlikeable that a significant chunk of her holier than thou "Resistance" crew mutinies and it seems totally believable because of the previous asshole behaviour. Good acting, terrible character.
@@chrisinstasis7986 More like shoehorned in to drag the guy around by his nose. All females are supposed to be depicted as the "master", don't you know? That's why that Rey character was automatically a Jedi master without any training or knowledge.
Hey, calling rose shrek is NOT okay. Shrek is one of the best characters in movie history and the shrek movie is a textbook example on how to make a good family movie.
In short, people like characters when they ACTUALLY HAVE CHARACTER. Audiences gravitate towards characters that are multidimensional - the way real human beings are - and not simply a vehicle used by the filmmakers to propound an agenda or to give voice to some contemporary angst.
When the ryders (not writers) create a movie or tv show by grabbing cool looking scenes (often slavishly copied or using watered down versions of the scene they copied) and gobbing it together like a 3rd grader's collage mixed medium art project and do not put in a narrative thread, the characters are dragged about like the cardboard stand ups with plastic bases on a boring board game. (I like good board games.) So even before or without an SJW agenda, there is little room for characterization of the characters. The bottom line is that the viewers will emotionally bond with the characters and this bond makes them care what happens to the characters. If this is missing, viewers might complain about everything else, because they are not engaged with the characters. When they are emotionally engaged with the characters, they will overlook and ignore or look last bad sets an# costumes, and many other problems and flaws.
@TheGreaterGood80 Exactly, I say this in shorthand when I say female and black and gay is not inherently interesting, brown and bisexual and young and female is not inherently interesting, old and white amd male is not inherently interesting, pretend I gave more examples, until the writer makes them interesting. Don't skip the characterization of the characters which should be driving the action and the plot thread. They have a forced diversity checklist of characters that must be in the movie and they are stealing scenes from other movies, often copying them badly without a proper build up to the dramatic climax of a scene or slavishly copying every detail and thus the scene looks good but does not seem to be fitted into the movie like puffy sleeves on a bikini. There is often no narrative thread holding these scenes together. So the character was here in the former scene but now is here in this scene. A character us in this scene but why. People argue but the argument does not seem to affect what happens next. Watching a plotless wonder of a movie is a first frustrating and then is mind numbing and the experience is forgetful. What is missing is the viewer emotionally bonding to the characters and the viewer suspending disbelief and then becoming enthralled by the spectacle and for a time entering the make believe world of that story. We have movies that have bits that look good and some are beautifully shot but these movies do not tell a story. Until human brains change, what a movie or tv showmust do is to tell a story and a story works when we know why people do what they do and we believe it as in it feels like somebody sould think that it feel that way or do that thing at this moment meaning it feels emotionally true.
@@eastlynburkholder3559 A good argument for this is the FBI detective in Boondock Saints played by William Dafoe. He was a gay in the movie but holy shit he was an insane character.
It's sad what our society film industry books, tv shows comic books have turned into wokeness political correctness and identity feminism, the soy world narcissism......mental insanity at its finest!
Mark Hamill cares so much for the character of Luke Skywalker. You can tell it's not just because he played him, he cares about the importance/impact the character has on our culture.
he still took the money to play Luke again though. bad decision. shouldve stayed retired. he doesnt seem to enjoy being a sellout like harrison ford does.
@@TheSuperappelflap Yah he signed a contract way before knowing all of the details and script. He's shown many times how genuinely shocked he was with the direction of the character.
It's sorta funny that Tony Stark is sort of the anti-Rey Kennedy. (Yes she's a "skywalker," but whatever) Rey's meant to be everything the target audience is supposed to love, a preachy overpowered strong woman. Tony Stark on the other hand was meant to be everything the target audience would hate. A drunken egotistical arms dealer is the exact sort of thing audiences would use as a stock villain in those days. Funny how good writing can take something to new heights, innit?
Tony Stark's character had solid foundations and natural growth. I don't like him as a personality, but I understand him. Ray Sue on the other hand is as dazzling and fascinating as a piece of clear wrap squeezed into a ball under sparkling lights.
Well, we see Stark suffer and struggle more in the first 10 minute of his movie than Rey in the whole trilogy. Stark is a flawed, human, relatable character. He was given his fortune, true, but he also struggles, accomplishes things, fails and try again. Rey is a Mary Sue. She can do anything just because, and is handed over everything.
@@diersteinjulien6773 That's what Stan Lee intended. His quote from an interview was: “I think I gave myself a dare. It was the height of the Cold War. The readers, the young readers, if there was one thing they hated, it was war, it was the military. So I got a hero who represented that to the hundredth degree. He was a weapons manufacturer, he was providing weapons for the Army, he was rich, he was an industrialist. I thought it would be fun to take the kind of character that nobody would like, none of our readers would like, and shove him down their throats and make them like him ... And he became very popular.”
Drunk, egotistical, womanizing, arms dealer, and the heir to billions of dollars. Everyone loves him. Could it possibly be the struggle, failure, and eventual growth?
Dude. I know this is a joke. But it's gotten to the point where my body literally entered fight-or-flight mode just reading something like that. The war's been going too long, mate. I don't think I'll ever fully return to my old innocence, my faith in people. I wonder if hearing phrases like this sixty years down the track will set me into a flashback... I'm not optimistic :(
I am literally shaking, completely flabbergassed by this idea itself. We need to ban good characters, they are supporting white nazi alt-right fascist supremacy.
@@LinkMarioSamus you might be aware of this already, but just in case, the original comment wasn't being serious :) if they were, we would have already thoroughly defenestrated them
You forgot to mention it is also important how the characters interact and relate to each other, like Luke, Han and Leia. The way the three relate to each other and grow together is important. Luke and Leia feel a bond, but romance is awkward for reasons we discover. Luke and Han develop a deep camaraderie though they are very different. Each of the three will genuinely sacrifice everyting for the others and learn to trust each other at a deep level.
@@colinluckens9591 We can all support the very Concept of Smart Writing Itself. Random examples: Jay Excis 5 hour Video, Madvocates Flash-Coverage, Terrible Wrirting Advice, Drinker himself (duh) and Hbomberguy. Oh, and you can support Noob-Writers or even become one yourself. Channel like Reedsy and Krimson Rogue help you improve.
My wife and her cousin (stuck here with us due to quarantine) decided to watch the entire Star Wars series (the nine movies from the main story line) the other day. They watched them in chronological order. With no expectations, nostalgia or memory of the original trilogy in the way, they enjoyed the prequels. The original trilogy took them a bit of getting used to the dated special effects, but ultimately they loved the story line. At the end of Return of the Jedi my wife asked me why they made the sequels. Didn’t the story conclude perfectly and where were they going to go from here? They then started watching The Force Awakens and after half an hour turned it off. They found it complete shite and were wondering who all these fake characters were. It confirmed my choice to never watch any of these three sequels. Particularly as it seems the last two are even way worse than The Force Awakens
Can't speak to the quality of IX as I never saw it, but whereas VII just made me disappointed, VIII actually made me angry. Everything was so shameless, the pandering to the chinese market, the ham-fisted and preachy social justice messaging, the clear lack of overall vision for the series, and most unforgivably in my opinion the assassination of the character of Luke Skywalker. Any Star Wars made by Disney is non-canonical as far as I'm concerned.
Haha yep, I did the same, my girlfriend never saw a single Star Wars so we got the 1 week free trial for Disney Plus (and immediately cancelled when we finished so we didn't feed the mouse a single dollar). We did the originals first, then prequels and sequels. It was fun watching her interest grow, 4 was just ok to her, but by the time of 6 she loved the ending and the theme of family and redemption across the story. We did the prequels and she liked the world building of them, the story of Anakin in the full arc, and the larger themes (hated Jar Jar though haha). When we got to the sequels she was clearly a lot less interested, getting up multiple times for drinks or the restroom or to check emails, etc. She shouted out loud at some point in 7 "this is the same movie, what's the point?" and we got to 8 and 9 and she was actually mad at how it just undoes the RotJ's perfect finale and was super pissed at "Rey Skywalker" lol. I guess she and your wife and cousin are all misogynists for not liking them right? LOL
I definitely agree with everyone else here. Compared to the OT (and even the prequels which I have always enjoyed as well), the prequels don't come close to the complexity and intrigue of their predecessors. When I saw episode 7, I was like ok this is kind of bad they just copied the plot of A New Hope with new characters, but it wasn't totally horrible. Episode 8 got worse, particularly in how they handled Luke's character, and it generally was poorly done and there's no character development or progression throughout the different movies. However, aside from ruining the character development and conclusion of the original trilogy and prequels (especially in how they ruined Luke's development and Anakin's redemption), episode 9 was one of the worst movies I've ever seen all time. Even regardless of how it ruins canon and the previous films (like bringing back Palpatine because they had no other ideas or vision for the trilogy), it still stands alone as a shite movie. There were so many plot holes, nothing is earned or makes sense, and it's one of the most surface-level boring films ever. It definitely pissed me off and left me incredibly unsatisfied. After all these years of watching Star Wars my expectations weren't that high to wrap it up, but I thought at least I'd feel some sense of conclusion or completeness. ROTJ is a perfect ending and I think I'll just not watch the sequels again.
I tell my wife everyday she is lucky she couldn't make it to the movies to see The Rise of Skywalker. She's never seen it to this day and probably never will.
If you have Disney+ you should watch Clone Wars! The last 4 episodes of season 7 were amazing and go right in Episode III. If you liked the prequals, I think you will love, as long as you are okay with an animated series...
he's an established author, so his number of subscribers really don't fucking matter. It shouldn't even be used to elevate or amplify his message or words, if he's right then he's right. I'm just being a semi pretentious dick at this point, but people like you are what's wrong with modern audiences of any form of media, even if your opinion and mine are the same and what I'd even consider to be the "correct" opinion here.
Yeah. Listening to the things this man has said, he could probably rewrite Star Wars 8-9 and have done a better job than Hollywood itself. Man, I miss the originals.
There are some guys and gals around that don't even have 5,000 subscribers that I would take over all of Hollywood and journalism combined, any day of the week, and nine times on Sunday.
I LOVE that you touched on how people may not be able to articulate why something is good or bad but knows it when they see it, almost like an instinct. They aren’t stupid or missing the important “theme” or whatever the excuse is. You don’t assume your audience is stupid and I appreciate and respect that so much! Thank you!
It’s so sad that strong female characters have been so politicized. I have a three year old daughter who LOVES the original trilogy. She knows the names of all the characters and has a very basic understanding of the plot(who is good who is bad). I showed her The Force Awakens, and she was confused. She didn’t follow it or realize there was any connection to the original trilogy even thou I told her it was a Star Wars movie. My daughter is three years old and she recognizes good writing over bad.
When they realised that people have good will for a beloved series and will buy the next installment to get their fix. Good will only last so long, and people are starting to realise that it's a cash grab. They love beating dead horses if it means they get a couple more pennies out of it.
When the only people that get hired are through nepotism. Look at all this new gen of celebrities. They are mostly the offspring of the previous generation of celebrities.
SkyNinja759 things 2: you’ve descibed EA in a nutshell Example: FIFA, do I need to say more? If so, it’s the same game, every single time, with maybe some differences here and there, and in classic ea fashion HEAPS upon HEAPS of microtransactions
XEN_WOLF F it’s not a matter of the actors though. Their ability to act doesn’t necessarily change the fact that they were written badly. I’m no critic of acting so I can’t speak on that but bad writing is bad writing and it is t the actors fault all the time, it’s more of the script and story
Scott Mendelsohn blamed the failure of the King Arthur movie on it having a white male protagonist no less than 3 times in his review. Yes, you heard that right. He said that because King Arthur was portrayed by a white male, the movie failed (as opposed to it just being shit with some new age annoying writing and being full of non-nonsensical box-ticking diversity with blacks and Asians in prominent roles in centre screen). It seems Mendelsohn suffers from fatal levels of white-guilt.
When I saw what they have done to Picard ie made him into little more than a weak old man, my first instinct was not to bother with the series and just remember him as he was. I'm glad I made that decision
So infuriating as someone who was raised up with TNG! I rage quit Picard in Episode 5, when the senseless killing of Icheb happened. It's sad to see, that TNG's Encounter at Farpoint Picard had more integrity that this parallel universe Picard
@ludlow 889 One does have the option of reading the ST:TNG (and ST and...) novels to keep in touch with the REAL Capt. Picard (and Kirk and...) They're 100% better and many of them would've made excellent movies.
It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite movie lines. When Jor-El was talking to Zod in Man of Steel, he said to him, "I will honor the man you once were, Zod, not the monster you have become." It stinks to see these great characters slide into these dark places. But at least I can go into the past and remember and honor them as they once were.
As a big Luke Skywalker fan, thank you for this! Kathleen Kennedy can talk about the Force being female now all she wants, but I'm a woman, and Luke's always been my favorite, and the one I relate to. One thing I'd like to add- a lot of us have suffering in life, and that's one thing we can relate with in him, such as when he lost his hand and the way it happened. I can think of some other characters (the kind that writers are always trying to push on the audience) who would also have gone rushing off before they were ready; but instead of *them* getting hurt, it would have happened to another character.
Mendelson thinks the fans are the people who beat him up and took his lunch money as a kid. He thinks that his job is to get revenge on them. He thinks fans can only like "tough guys" because he thinks we go to the theaters to have our egos stroked. He doesn't get that what fans like are complex characters driven by well written internal conflict that the audience can understand and relate to because they're universal.
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Scott Mendelsohn blamed the failure of the King Arthur movie on it having a white male protagonist no less than 3 times in his review. Yes, you heard that right. He said that because King Arthur was portrayed by a white male, the movie failed (as opposed to it just being shit with some new age annoying writing and being full of non-nonsensical box-ticking diversity with blacks and Asians in prominent roles in centre screen). It seems Mendelsohn suffers from fatal levels of white-guilt.
I don't know what kind of school he went to then. Where I'm from, being a star wars nerd was the single best way to find yourself at the bottom of the social ladder lol Then again it's not like mendelson has a grasp of reality so whatever I guess
@ I want to know when "straight white male" became an insult. Because how dare people be attracted to the opposite gender, be white and have a dick "sarcasm."
Well-written characters will change, adapt, and grow to accommodate new situations, i.e. Hero's Journey. Badly written characters will not change, forcing the situation to accommodate them, i.e. Mary Sue.
@@sugartoothYT Even for this channel, this Video here was surpsiingly Good. People! Actively share it! Dont just hope more people will see it, but make it happen!!
@@learn2draw716 mary sues most defining feature, is fact that oftenplot bends in illogical ways to help character. Like the dagger thing in last jedi, the sheer amount of luck and coincidences is absurd.
The Luke I grew up with, the one whose spirit and good heart always kept him strong, the one whose kind hearted nature saw the good in the second most dangerous man in the Galaxy even when everyone else, even his own mentor gave up on him… That man would NEVER abandon his family or give up on his nephew, even after a brief moment of weakness.
41 dislikes with over 7k likes. These deer only have one agenda, and if you look at the big picture it's to bring down western civilization. Unfortunately they are very loud and Hollywood agrees with them.
Folks who don't get Superman puzzle me, there IS a great character in there. He's basically a "god" who has made the conscious choice to live in the confines of a humble ordinary man. That's a huge challenge, as Ben Franklin once said "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." How does one who wants to do good and live an ordinary life survive corruption when he has that much power? Can he resist temptation or is his fall inevitable? It's an interesting journey.
"A character is only as good as his nemesis" And I would add the other way around works the same. You probably know about this contest but here it goes anyways. th-cam.com/video/8GClG-kx0HY/w-d-xo.html
By the way the idea that power corrupts is wrong beacuse the more powerfull someone is the less corruptable he is: an hypothecal king of the world would be by definition incorruptable because there is nothing you can really give him that he couldn't take himself, same goes for superman, partial power makes people corruptable (that's why every democratic polititian is corrupt as opposed to kings who generally weren't) and ben Franklin lied knowngly and that phrase is just democratic progagand and the opposit of truth because democracy sustains itself on deception, and it allways has historically
@@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443 Interesting thought process and in one sense of a theory you'd be right, except that you're missing a key part of corruption. Corruption isn't just what one can offer us in a bribe, but also can be having that which we aren't meant to have, that which is forbidden. You can be King of the world, but what if in having everything else you want one person out of all humans to love and obey you...but because you're a tyrant they hate you and refuse. You force your absolute will on them incarcerate their body, try to break their mind, assault them, but they never give in. One becomes gross in their immorality. One with that level of power will corrupt and ultimately want to be God. God power is forbidden. In our seeking for absolute power we find the original evil of Lucifer from the Bible, and ultimate corruption.
@@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443 Tell that to the Greeks. Also, while it may not be corruption by the dictionary definition, language does evolve and people these days tend to use the word to mean "use of power in an immoral way". So James isn't wrong.
Shocking people like good and interesting characters, charisma vaccums and heros acting more like villains who are amazing at everything are boring, bland planks of wood.
explain, then please, why everyone seems to love Game of Thrones. most of its characters were charisma vacuums/heroes acting like villains/downright despicable assholes, and yet it was (until season 8, that is) considered to be "superior to Lord of the Rings" which, in contrast, had clearly moral characters
@@OneTrueVikingbard The only "charisma vacuum" in Game of Thrones were perhaps Cersei and Arya. Most of the characters were very lively. But, yes, many were assholes. Why did having so many villainous characters work for Game of Thrones? Because the audience wasn't beaten over the head with insistence that the assholes were good people. Most of the assholes were clearly intended to be despicable from the start, and the writers allowed the audience to hate the despicable characters and root for the good ones (like Rob Stark and Jon Snow). Really, the only character that was presented (at first) as being a "good person" that was in fact a villain, was Danerys. And the whole point of her character was to show how her initial good intentions were warped into despotism by her ego. It was pretty plain to see that she was turning into a villain by the third or fourth season. The fact that some radical feminists out there failed to recognize Danerys' underlying villainy only serves to prove that section of the audience are denser than tungsten and happy to enact despotism as long as it's their despots in charge; it does not mean the character was poorly written.
Seeing young Luke while listening to Drinker's commentary made me remember what SW used to be. It made me want to weep anew at how one of my favorite stories/franchises has been destroyed. "I am a Jedi, like my father before me." Yep. Tearing up for real. We loved Luke because we went on the journey with him. He overcame his failures and he earned his successes. And through him, so did we.
This is a great analysis of the problems in society in entertainment and Hollywood, no one cares about gender, race, religion or anything in the world. Having a character grow, change and become better as an individual is something we all want to be in ourselves. We should see more of this in movies, regardless of agendas and political ideals.
Why use the word Hollywood like it's a studio? It's the name of the industry. The same industry which gave us John Wick, Hans Landa, Django and so many more well written characters. Don't generalize the whole industry. They even made Tony Stark a hero who was never A grade character in comics.
@The Other Point Of View It's not all bad. The concept was a good one and there were some okay and good streamers there. Just that a shit SJW schizophrenic deer and a bunch of "professionals" came in and ruined it.
10:03 I always thought Rey looked stupid when she used the Force. She has her ‘trying as hard as she can’ face on, which takes away the entire essence of what the Force is. Do, or do not. There is no try. The only time someone’s hand has ever been outstretched like that when using the Force is when they shove someone, and even then it’s only for a moment.
"Their actions and decisions are consistent with their personalities" - you missed an important prerequisite there (I blame the whiskey) - they *have* personalities!
@@taunokekkonen5733 depends on the whiskey... I have a bottle of a budget brand of Taiwanese whiskey bought as a joke, made by a subsidiary of one of the islands car companies. Trust me, that stuff is every bit as bad as you're imagining and it deserves every bit of blame it gets!
Luke (just like Frodo) is also the "fish out of water" the audience is meant to relate to as the characters will be explained and learn how the world and setting works.
to be fair though, in the end (spoiler) she kinda eats those words when Picard is proven right, and gives him exactly what he asked for in the first place.
To be fair Patrick Start is 80 but it is the future and they didn't have to portray him as old and weak. Especially weak of the mind. I found it kind of depressing. Star Trek used to be uplifting and all about equality and teamwork and the fact that they seem to want to destroy that shows it isn't equality they seek.
The only scene that showed a glimmer of the Luke we remembered - mourning Han's death was deleted from L. Jedi but instead we got important scenes like green milk!
Thanks to this video, I have finally been able to make a good arc that I can work the story with for my character that I've been working on for the past 6-8 months, genuinely. The way you explained these character's arcs in such a brief summary and showed the Hero's Journey chart gave me a clear vision of how I wanted MY own character to develop. you are truly a bold and inspiring drunk.
“Do these things, and the character stands a good chance of being well received. Do it not, and the Drinker will be paying you a little visit.” Question: If they do these things, won’t you be paying them a visit anyway in the form of the Drinker Recommends?
Naw. This has nothing to do with his reviews. He literally goes down their chimney and leaves a lump of shit in their laundry basket...the kind of shit a Scotsman takes when he's downed 3 bottles of whiskey and a shot of Toilet Duck.
But even Jack Sparrow as a scoundrel had Will Turner as the "boy-scout" character to balance the film out and drive character development. Part of the fun of watching is seeing these characters face different ordeals and get tested. Even anime like Naruto or Luffy uses this concept.
An excellent analysis Drinker, which illustrates why you have the skills to be a writer and many in Hollywood do not. The era of PC and identity politics writing cannot produce interesting characters as its mechanical and inflexible checklist approach to things makes them unrealistic and dull cyphers. In fact much if Hollywood screenwriting reminds me of the propaganda films of totalitarian states like the Soviet Union.
We are living in a liberal dictatorship where cancellation is the gulag and you are subjected to whines and screams, instead of a firing squad. It is a subtle totalitarian regime that tries to control people's behavior and strangle their expressiveness. It doesn't use guns, though. It uses privilege and money to drown whoever they don't like into oblivion.
@@manniking233 You are telling the absolute truth. I can't believe how obvious this is to me and seemingly few others. Social media is being tampered with to present THEIR view as the positive. You are racist/sexist/[insert offense here] for disliking this movie. It's disgusting! Majority rules do not apply. It's disturbing to say the least!
“Audiences aren’t as dumb as Hollywood thinks they are”. I think you hit the nail on the head there....that and they need to stop thinking all they need to do is check off boxes spat out by a logarithm. Lazy uninspired writing.
I agree. I think the saddest thing in how western entertainment industries operates nowadays is that they think everything is a construct that can be manipulated, from their products to their audience's taste. Frankly it doesn't work that way. Works that born from brilliant and well crafted thinking will find it's way to their audience's heart. It's not simply a construct. You cannot simply defy this by flipping this so called construct of whatever just to subvert expectations, the quality of the contents must came first. That's precisely why people can sympathize with Walter White, Jaimie Lannister, GTA protagonist, and some other morally questionable character out there. When creators crafted believable writing, people will bond to it. You cannot force your audience to like someone just because they defy expectations, that's just poor excuse.
Mark himself knew Disney spat on him and tried to talk about it without being mean until Disney silenced him and that in itself made a ton of people ditch Disney.
It appears that Hollywood seems to think the only way to write a strong female character is to tear down the characters around them. It would be more effective to build these characters up in a believable manner, rather than say everyone else is garbage this person is great. It's pretty disrespectful to the character and the audience.
I used to hold a similar view of Walter White as you put forth. After watching Breaking Bad a second time, though, I completely changed my analysis. Walter was always a terrible person. You see early on that his ego is out of control, and that he constantly blames others for his misfortunes. He never takes responsibility for his actions. He blames his former best friend and business partner for his lack of success, he blames his ex-fiancée for his unhappiness while disregarding her side of the story, he blames his wife for problems at home, etc. He was never a sympathetic character, merely a pathetic one. His metamorphosis into a ruthless crime boss was the natural conclusion of his personality, ego, and life choices. He has a moment of clarity at the end of the show, of course, and in that moment he comes close to actually taking responsibility for his actions, but he knows it’s too late, and that the words would be meaningless if he uttered them. The only heroic action he performs in the entire show is sacrificing himself for Jesse in the finale.
One of my favorite scenes with Luke was when his assumptions of how a jedi master should look and act were shattered by the appearance of Yoda. After realizing how wrong he was he humbled himself and begged Yoda to reconsider his decision. I really admired Luke then and my respect for the character doubled. Of course his refusal to kill his father despite what he had become earned my respect and admiration as well I wondered what I would've done. If I were truly honest I'd have to say I would've killed Vader regardless.
That's all Picard is, "Smart" strong women telling JL to eff off all the time, more or less. Which I honestly don't get. I mean, JL was a progressive. Surely they can't hate him just because he's a white him...right?
It's called 'soul'. You can only empathize with a character that shows true human attributes. The paper thin characters in the sequel trilogy lack depth. At every stage Rey has been shown to be just a snotty nosed, overpowered brat. She don't need no man and they Reylo thing was utterly contrived and only appealed to vacuous Twitterheads who would not know a good story if it slammed them in their smartphone account.
Rey is so horrible written, that I don't even care about her. Sometimes we love to hate characters with a passion - and at least they evoke an emotion in us. Rey is just incongruent and completely 'meh' that the only emotion she invokes in me is a slight annoyance that I can't see something interesting.
You nailed it with one word: RESPECT! I've thought for a long time that the writers for Star Wars, Dr. Who, etc. have shown no respect whatsoever for the brilliant characters and franchises with which they've been entrusted.
When you break it down like this, it amazes me how the current crop of “writers” for these woke movies ever got near a position of responsibility. They don’t seem to grasp the most basic fundamentals of story telling.
I believe there is a historically used term of "useful idiots" which serves here as a bit of explanation as to why it is happening. If you want to shove your agenda down the public's throat, you use an effigy, a trained monkey with megaphone that will do exactly what you want. You don't need competence, but obedience.
And the characters the hacks refer to as 'too perfect' actually are relatable. A well-written Superman story portrays him as human with the powers of a god. He has doubts and fears. There are people he loves and despises. Sometimes he has trouble figuring out what the right thing to do is in a complicated world.
I’ve been rewatching TNG over lockdown (always a laugh to watch Riker shag his away across the galaxy) and Jean Luc is almost unrecognisable compared to the Picard show. It’s like they don’t know or will fully ignored his character’s story and motivations completely!
Personally, I feel like it validates some of the claims about disputes between roddenberry and stewert back when tng was ongoing, you listen to some interviews and its kind of clear patrick never really felt invested in the show or the character and it shows here, well that and nemesis which he also had a hand in directing.
@@DigitalGame18 Not sure I agree with that last part. Tough to lay the blame at the feet of the 79 year old man. Otherwise, yeah, watching TNG is like watching a completely different character
@@Roper122 Well, Sir Patrick had gone full woke and openly admits it; he's only his childhood troubles that offer some ... redemption in that regard. Just look at him spewing hatred and mockery on Magna Carta in anti-Brexit advert.
@@piotrd.4850 I don't think being anti-brexit means going full woke. And although there's no doubt that he didn't want to repeat TNG, I'm still not laying the blame on him.
@@Roper122 True, but WAY he agressively belittles one of greatest achievements of his country and civilisation in general for low political reasons... that is radical activism, woke or not. Nobody wanted or expected TNG; but still, people expected Star Trek and Picard, not cheap Mass Effect rip-off, down to ship aesthetics/plot and John Luck Prickard. The idea of once powerful figure fighting external and internal problems (age, intrigue, ego, indeffrernce) is great (see: TNG Family). The execution was terrible.
Can't remember the source of the quote but it went something like, "There's nothing so profound as returning to an unchanged place, only to see how you yourself have changed." But some writers don't want their characters to change.
Characters that are interesting, complex and consistent in their motivations and actions are what audiences want. Good writers are the most important part of the creative process. Bad writing can not be fixed by flashy effects or media shills.
And respect the source material. You want to tell your own story, then use original characters and world building to do it. At any interview for a director or writer, the studio should require before the interview that they read at least some good examples of the source material or watch prior shows or movies.
I would add that these characters we love are either realistic people we sympathize with or archetypes of humanity (for better and worse) we learn from. Either way, it gives us something and someone to care about. Characters that are just there to fulfill a plot purpose or deliver a message don't do that, so we don't care.
This reminds me of the story of one of my favorite authors, Jim Butcher. Early in his career he tells the inception story for one of his series. He and another author were arguing about whether good concepts or good writing make a great story. Believing that he was writing that makes a great story, he accepted a bet. Take two lousy concepts, Lost Roman Legion and Pokemon, and make a quality story. Thus, was the Codex Alera born.
It may be because Pokemon is so culturally ingrained and recognizable that it actually would be a challenge to reconfigure it in a way that makes sense in a novel story without obviously ripping it off.
So are we prepared to finally admit the unthinkable: that given the fact that Mark Hamill understands his character better than the directors and writers, that he would have made a better Star Wars movie than Rian and JJ? 😅
The reason why I keep returning to this channel is because the critiques are so much more honest and on the spot than anything you find on 'normal' media outlets.
Alita is a great example: Great world building. Great action scenes. Great main character. However, the support cast were weak compared to Alita and the actual plot of the movie is kind of weak too, but a lot of people still lost their minds over that movie solely because of how much they loved Alita as a character.
supporting cast was weak because they were underused, the movies runtime was too tight to allow it, hugo needed more time with Alita for their relationship to be plausible, Vector and Chiren also needed time to make their motivations clear and Chirens change of heart more believable. the movie is great but a victim of its own adherance to the mangas story, it just cannot be adequately done in 2 hours , but i am happy they gave it a shot.
Yeah, Alita kind of overshadowed the other characters because Rosa was so passionate about her role, and Keean was an inexperienced actor, albeit still a competent one. The plot arc was good, but it mostly started without really finishing and instead just stopped (hence the huge demand for a sequel). Still, as you said, people loved the film because they loved Alita. She is a shining example of what female empowerment is supposed to be for so many reasons.
@@Edgebotv4 Interestingly enough, the live action film was about twice as long as the manga/anime chapters it was based on. I don't think the issue was that it was crammed, I think that it was only a small part of a larger story that still had more building to do. Hopefully a sequel will be made.
The fact that it hasn’t attracted kids is the biggest failure of them all. I would never believe you if you told me that Star Wars toys didn’t sell and kids weren’t obsessed with Star Wars just 5 years ago. It’s crazy. Say what you want about the prequels but they attracted a whole new generation of fans and a boatload of awesome merch
I'm so glad people like you are here to voice everything that has gone missing from fantastic story telling. I feel like eventually this awful trend will die down when studios realise why their new movies are failing, and true success requires time, effort, and respectful to the audience and it's story
What they did to Luke Skywalker makes me cry, He was the heart of Star Wars. never have I seen such a noble and brave hero become so diluted due to agenda and politics.
At least we know that Mark hated every moment of his new character throughout the sequels, so at least we have the IRL Skywalker staying true to his character.
I have gradually become overwhelmed with awe at the wisdom and logical thinking you display in this movie critic assays Drinker. High praise coming from me who at age 17yr covenanted to never drink any alcoholic drink again (and kept eversince)!
"'The Last Jedi' is 'The Dark Knight' of the 'Star Wars' saga" So The Dark Knight sucked so hard it ruined the Batman franchise? And here I thought it was a great movie...
That statement he may has got to be one of the most arrogant two-faced statement I’ve ever heard. Last Jedi doesn’t come anywhere near the iconic level of TDK.
This video has precisely hit the nail on the head with what’s wrong with movies today. And watching this has brought a smile to my face. Luke Skywalker is my favourite character of all time, I totally related to him as a kid. And the last Jedi absolutely broke my heart. Still haven’t bothered to see rise of skywalker. Cheers to you drinker 🍻🥃🍾
@@AA-jd2iz Likewise. I did, however, watch both the Drinker's and Mauler's review videos on it. I was far more entertained by them than I have been by Disney for well over a decade...
"'Terminator: Dark Fate' Sadly Shows Diversity Only Matters For Movie Audiences Already Want To See" ...this man presumably gets paid to "write" this literal nonsense?
James Gratz ”He brings up nothing people don’t already agree with”. So you do agree this is the real fan view then. Great! And since when does fandoms need ”hot takes” or shilling from people that don’t like the franchise to begin with?
I’m reading the Black Fleet Trilogy at the moment. And in there Han is a stay at home Dad having the time of his life watching his kids grow up, while Leia is miserable in her political career. Now compare that with TFA.
I mean, it DID make sense with Vergil. What with his issues, and how he didn't even know he HAD a kid - the game makes it pretty clear he's stunned when he finds out that ages-old one night stand actually resulted in something. Chopping off your son's arm is probably never gonna qualify you for father of the year, though. Buuut, I'm guessing DMC5 was probably not one of the recent forms of media on your mind. :)
Luke never gave up on darth Vader to turn him back to the light side but he gives up on his nephew the moment he finds the slightest bit of darkness in him... (thanks Disney)
I started watching Drinker's videos because I wanted to hear funny commentary on movies and shows that I think are trash. But the last two dozen or so videos have been something altogether different. Drinker should be teaching a master class to writers on character development and story arc. These are very well crafted "essays" on what works (and what doesn't) in screenplays. Well done sir.
In short: when you replace artistic talent and vision with ideological agenda pushing and disrespect, if not outright loathing of both the source material and the audience, the result is inevitably shite and failure.
Thank you for this. You articulate so much better than I could the problem with their treatment of Luke in TLJ. I was in mourning after I saw that movie, I literally wept at the death of my childhood hero. Not just because he was gone, but because of the WAY he died. It was such a disappointment. Thank you for your insight.
Yes it did. I mean I gave The Force Awakens a chance, I wanted to see what Luke got up to after he took down the Empire in 6 but then...why? What could have happened to him in the 40 years since to make him just give up like that? Got now explanations, no reasons, no nothing and I would have liked to know but then they force Rey down your throat. I know people change as they get older and sometimes lose their way but for me I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO LUKE and how he got to be that lost, not be force fed whamen Mary Sue Rey. I was born in 1983 and never got to see the Star Wars Trilogy in a theater until they released the 20th anniversary movies in 1997, it kinda felt weird. I had seen them before then, I was young but I remember wondering what happened to the other version of Darth Vader when they digitally replaced him with Christensen in the theater.
I think we are facing a recasting to a period of time closer to A New Hope. In other words Star Wars is dead. It really died when Carrie Fisher passed away and they didn't adjust TLJ script to accommodate it (also would have been a golden opportunity to do reshoots to actually produce a decent movie - Johnson doesn't want to change it, then fine we will get a director to fix it).
Good character arcs and development have always been the hallmark for good movies and TV shows over the years. Characters that are either relatable (struggling with various problems) or great role models (enduring & overcoming difficulties & challenges), and when they're NOT, then the overall story fails as a whole. Movies and TV shows that get too preachy on various political, environmental or social issues ALWAYS get that polarizing treatment.
I know. Just remember the original trilogy. When you get angry, play back in your head the good moments. Release the hate. Don't focus on the negative.
@@danmanx2 aye negative in excess blinds us and in the end, destroys us. As it has done to these very people "dominating" (suiciding) the film industry and comics.
Funny thing, I don't like what they did to Luke, but I can't bring myself to hate it. Mostly because, if I'm to be honest... I saw it coming. I just thought "what is the easiest thing they would do with that character" and making him jaded and cynical just seemed most likely. And honestly, I'm pretty sure it's because that's a trend Hollywood does now. It is funny, in trying to be bold, they just changed a character from one archetype that no one does anymore to another, less interesting and more common archetype that SEVERAL people are doing. So much for bold new take.
I know this is a couple years old, but you are so spot on. I love your channel and listening to your videos. I find you insightful and entertaining. Love it!
I feel like amongst lot of other mistakes, Ruin Johnson committed two crucial mistakes when it came to handling Luke. One is that, like our dear ethanol abusing but eloquent host explained, is that he does not respect Luke in the script, but he ABSOLUTELY expects to use the audience's nostalgia for him to pour his ideas onto the audience, and those ideas are explained with Luke and Yoda as mouthpieces : What you liked was stupid, previous Star Wars were stupid and mostly meaningless, and previous Jedi were bad, only Rey and reluctantly maybe Yoda were good. The other mistake is that Luke is not the most powerful character in his saga : The EMPEROR is. Luke is certainly very capable by the end and can match his own personal villain, Vader, but it is not Luke's capability that resolves the plot. Luke IS the New Hope and his strength is hope. His belief that his friends will prevail, but most of all his faith that there is something in his father that is good, and that he can make thar something come out even when others tell him he can't. Luke and Vader don't even go all out in that fight until Vader touches a nerve, and even then Luke pulls back, proving that he won't surrender to momentary anger, but continue to believe in both what he learned and his father's remnants of good. Luke believes, hopes against all signs. And you CAN break a character like that and make it touching and believable and squeeze tears or frustration from the audience. You can write a solemn, fatalistic or cautionary tale about the fall or failure of someone so good and hopeful, and make it a good read/watch. But Ruin Johnson doesn't do that. He doesn't take Luke and the audience through the process of exploring the writer's belief in nihilism by slow and believable breaking of the hopeful hero that is Luke. No... ... He does it offscreen.
JJ did the same to Han, all of the character growth through the OT, going from smuggling nerf herder to war hero. Undone with a few throwaway lines. I get why Han died, Harrison Ford hated the character and wanted him dead in RotJ, and I’m even fine with how it was done. But his character overall was wasted, ruined, and like pretty much every other character only served to make Rey look better in some way.
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The Critical Drinker another banger!
go away now
You missed one of Tony Stark's main flaws he's an alcoholic, but then again I guess you wouldn't consider that's flaw.
😎🤙 bringing the world just a little closer to reality with every episode!
The Critical Drinker- "What makes a good character is a writer's respect and investment in the character. They're well written, flawed and relatable."
Disney/CBS- "You want us to respect white male privilege?"
People like good characters? They must be toxic fans!
No out of step with modern culture good characters people are you rebels you bigots haters racists conform or be shunned!
@Starscream91 Brad Burns from the manga Green Blood.
💩
@@Abby-lh1gc Yeah i can see that, like Father Gascoigne.
Even jabba the hut was a better character than rey, fin and poe combined
Luke would have never given up on his nephew. Its as simple as that. I remember watching it and just shaking my head because it didn't make any sense
"I know there is still good in you" Luke said to his father, cyborg laser space Hitler.
There's no way he'd just go and try and kill his nephew like that no way.
He sees the good inside the most proficient killer in all galactic history but was willing to kill his nephew because of a bad dream. Doesn't make sense at all.
@@Jack-kx5rf A good thing sequel trilogy Luke or "Jake" as Mark Hamill called him doesn't live in the Nightmare on Elm Street world. He'd kill the Springwood kids for having nightmares about Freddy Krueger.
@@MrXandervm Yeah, that's exactly.. you've got at least 4-movies-worth of the franchise showing Vader in all his darkness... and Luke still believes he's redeemable. Compare that with a few seconds of a dream sequence sequence for Ren, and Luke's logic becomes a mystery box.
The problem for the plotting of the film is that the obvious solution to explaining why Luke and Ben Solo fell out would have essentially been a replay of the final showdown between Obiwan Kenobe and Anakin Skywalker, and suddenly the writers wanted to stop ripping off the original trilogy
It's simple. People cried and were respectfully silent when Tony Stark died. When Captain Marvel was punched, people cheered. That simple.
ItS bEcAuSe ShE iS a FeMaLe
No, it was because she (as the character was written) was a pompous MarySue. When Judy Dench's character "M" died in Skyfall, I cried my eyes out. Her character was well written and well acted. The Captain Marvel character was 2 dimensional at best and a victim of crappy writing, timing and wooden acting. I would have cheered her demise.
@@LRTrack woosh
But seriously, nobody cared that Luke Skywalker or Leia died either. Because neither of them were the characters that fans were familiar with. Any newcomers couldn't be emotionally attached to them either, because these films failed to make them legit interesting. Hell, I'd argue the same is true for the treatment of Han.
I sincerely hope a new trilogy is released with just Luke, Han, and Lando. They can say they are avenging the death of Leia, it's fine. Just actually give us those characters instead of a scant shade of who they're supposed to be.
Tacking onto what I just replied, Chewbacca's "death" could have been legit "heart-rending" if they had stuck with it rather than backpedaling, because at least Chewbacca was in all three movies had became a legit character.
Tony Stark died? Sorry, I got bored with this shit years ago.
The “boy scout” protagonist is often made more interesting when the world is not only constantly beating against their moral foundation, but also when the choice of doing the right thing costs them. It allows the audience to connect with them when get to see how much the hero must sacrifice of themselves to do what is right. A quippy character may be more fun minute to minute on screen, but a well written, upright character can rise to tell a story that’s overall more impactful. A character’s selling point should never ever ever EVER be their race, sex, or who they like to sleep with. That’s a billboard sign of a weak, shallow character.
Agreed! 👍
as a writer, i've never received that feedback. it's always "make your heroes flawed. we want someone who acts morally reprehensible and still thinks of themselves as a decent person." it's sickening, and it makes me doubt that people really do like morally righteous protagonists like Luke Skywalker (especially when people were wholesale trashing him up until 2017)
@@OneTrueVikingbard wdym people love Luke, up until TLJ at least.
Sauce Boss before TLJ, all I ever heard was that he was a whiner and a boyscout, and it made me ashamed to admit that I liked him. Then 2017 came and out of the woodwork, the same people who trashed him are saying that they “always loved him since day one.” And all I can say is “where the hell were you before TLJ? Why were your voices silent when Luke was being trashed by mainstream opinions?”
Finally someone said it.
It's almost as if we judge people and characters on their personality and morals rather than who they sleep with
That's the way the world should be, but the very loud people are obsessed with tribalism. Sticking people into categories based on superficial features, segregating them then deriving moral integrity based on those vague categories.
But what about their identity checkboxes?
Nah you do judge people on who they sleep with, but not because of the innate features of their mate, but the personality qualities of their mate.
B-but She-Ra fanbase claims that who characters want to sleep with is _all that matters._ Personalities, goals and characters arcs don't need to be consistent or even exist as long as we know exactly who everyone wants to fuck. And that show got a fifth season, so it can't be wrong! This is logical thought!
or than their gender or color
Flawed = relatable
Suffering = empathic
Wanting = intriguing
Taking action = engaging
Struggling = bonding
Overcoming = empowering
Growing / improving = satisfying
Winning = rewarding
Except that winning isn't rewarding unless they've lost.
@@Horltum That's why it is the last in the list
@@Horltum losers gonna lose
Rey only ticks the box of winning. What a surprise.
In the words of baron zemo: fair
Luke spent most of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back getting his ass handed to him. The Tusken Raiders kick his ass, the guy in the cantina kicks his ass, the garbage compactor monster kicks has ass and Han has to save him from Darth Vader kicking his ass in the Death Star trench. In Empire the Wompa kicks his ass, Yoda kicks his ass, and Darth Vader kicks his ass, again. Compare that to Rey who endlessly......wins.....every.....single.....time...........yawn
Damn, didn't realize just how much Luke got his ass handed to him before. Ha.
Also, never could get into the sequel trilogy either. I saw The Force Awakens twice, The Last Jedi once because I was bored and it was on Netflix, and have yet to see The Rise of Skywalker.
@@LordofMovies91 TLJ was just terrible
Luke can see and fight an invisible droid a few hours into learning the force, in the first movie. He's a farm boy who happens to be the best pilot in the universe having (never?) flown a spaceship. The Tuskan raiders "kicked his ass" but there isn't a mark on him and it doesn't hurt, it's not even an important part of the plot. "The guy in the cantina" doesn't kick anyone's ass, he acts tough and gets his arm hacked off. Even the Wompa only gives him a scar, and who won that one? The only character who even delays Luke's march to the end is Yoda. Getting his hand cut off should have been an obstacle, but they have robo-hands and the plot carries on towards the inevitable "good guys win" conclusion. I keep looking for this incredible story and amazing characters in Star Wars who undergo "development" through "difficulty," but the films keep showing a lazily written cash grab.
@@nimrodery Compared to what? The sequel trilogy. Surely you jest?
@@michaelmccrady6457 There was a good Star Wars film? I suppose Empire was okay, because a director got a hold of it and it wasn't the George Lucas show, but brainless entertainment seems the most the films can offer. Not complaining, I bought the toys when I was a kid and got my money's worth (mostly) at the box office and blu-ray. I don't need the new films to conform to my own personal nostalgic view of them. I lost the nostalgia feel with the ewoks. If I still had any, the drones, midichlorians and plot of the Phantom Menace killed what was left. The sequels were bad, and the originals weren't much better. Hell, I'm madder about Greedo shooting than I could ever get about sequel 7 8 and 9 out of any franchise. Imagine getting that wrapped up in the last few installments of "Friday the Thirteenth" (not that there aren't people who do).
"But by the final film, he's learned to temper his power with wisdom, compassion and restraint."
That is so true! Return of the Jedi *is* the final Star Wars film
but not the end of Luke. The Heirs to the Empire books do a great service to his character. : )
My son will NEVER see the broken-SJW-NPC-female agenda-sellout trilogy.
There could have been so much more...we could have had "the Adventures of Luke Skywalker" or a good 7, 8, 9, if Lucas had actually cared. Anything along those lines would have gotten the respect and adoration it deserved....Instead...George had delusions of grandeur, and made the prequels. Which, could have been made NOW and would have been amazing.
@@danmanx2 as if those films were bad because of the things you fear. What's wrong with putting a foot down for justice? What's wrong with being pro women? Enerving individuals don't make the opposite a better option. I guess if your son turns out to be gay you will go mental.
I'm gonna agree and take your statement a bit further. The original trilogy told a story of beloved characters and what role they played in the destruction of an evil empire so that a fair republic could be rebuilt. Their appearance, as much as fans would want wasn't needed to further the Star Wars saga. What happened to those characters afterward could be told as new plots unfold and new WELL WRITTEN characters are introduced. As long as those beloved characters were treated with respect in that telling I believe the fans would have been satisfied.
"You know what audiences want?"
"Purple haired admirals in evening gowns breaking the rules of the previous cinematic world building by doing idiotic things?"
"Exactly."
Admiral Holdo could have worked if she was an actual asshole officer. But the director wanted us to root for that piece of shit instead.
Honestly, it would be more enjoyable if Holdo got her head bashed in at the end of the movie. It would be so satisfying. But no, the director wanted her to be a hero so they came up with a made-up tactic(hyperspace ramming should not have worked, or if it does, it shouldn't have been effective) just to make her look good. Now we're all wondering why didn't the Rebel Alliance in Episode 4 send every single nebulons or GR-75 medium transports they have and rammed them all into the fuckin Death Star like a missile.
Why didn't the Empire just hyperspace ram Hoth using a single star destroyer. Its cheaper than a ground invasion and less complicated.
Why didn't the Rebels in Episode 6 used the lambda they stole and hyperspace ram the fucking shield generator on the surface of Endor.
In the Clone Wars Series, during the Ryloth Campaign, why didn't Anakin Skywalker just hyperspace ram the Lucrehulk(Droid Control ship) using the Venator? If he did that, Ahsoka wouldn't have needed to neutralize the rest of the fleet since hyperspace ramming is so effective that it can also damage the other ships next to it apparently.
@@aaroncabatingan5238 Modern movies just love to solve conflict with new tools. StarTrek has hyperspace beaming, magic blood and black-hole juice. MCU has "quantum realm" and timetravel. The Loki-show had tenpads, reality bombs and the "Oh yeah, your personal magic abilities arbitrarily don't work in this random space" or movie-devices that conveniently montage character arcs...
StarWars has hyperspace suddenly being able to avoid shields, loose opponents AND turn into a deadly weapon. Good thing they don't have autonomous robots or remote-control options to turn any ship into a projectile weapon - on top of their general refusal to using projectile weapons and instead favor much slower easy-to-track energy weapons.
@@Shuizid thing is... the fans would probably be able to forgive all that if the characters of the story were compelling, but even those they have to ruin. Where Anakin's tale was about a talented being refusing to go the hard way of serious and long jedi training and ultimately falling to his own desires, making his downfall a story of talent without discipline (in a very simplified way, please don't crucify me), Rey's tale would be about a talented individual succeeding in doing everything the hardworking ones couldn't do with minimal training, thus portraying the message of talent being more important than effort. Their message is terrible, the characters are terrible and therefore we look to consistency to somehow find anything to like about our childhood franchise, but even there they miss the mark by a landslide
@@v.e.l.pianist7848 Oh the yeah fans would totally forgive that. Because it's just background fluff. Worldbuilding is a nice intellectual exercise but most people don't watch movies for intellectual work but to feel with the characters.
Hence Harry Potter is popular despite it's world just being horrible. Because people focus on the maincast expiriencing this magical world with all it's wonders and unique ideas - not on the logistic of turning a deathtrap into a school (among many MANY other things).
Modern movies are seemingly written by idiots who have trouble even spelling the word "arc". Anakin had an arc, which was bogged down by horribly movie decisions. Rey had no arc.
@@Shuizid Yeah, absolutely right and I don’t necessarily need a professor in engineering to develop theoretical concepts that could 100% work for the universe, it just needs to be consistent in itself.
Like you have Robots that are virtually identically to humans and hyperadvanced computers in general, there is obviously no reason to having to control a spaceship yourself.
Also why do they keep doing things like acting as if Shields are impenetrable no matter how long they’re shot at, you can’t create or destroy energy, that’s one of the fundamental laws of existence, the shields will have to be overloaded at some point or the fact that they could only deflect energy weapons while it had been made obvious that physical objects (WHICH WOULD INCLUDE BULLETS) can pass through them so why does nobody give up the dumbass lasers even though they aren’t even more capable than regular rifles, at least in moments like this you’d expect it.
and why tf can’t the star destroyer fleet in RoS just go up lmao
One thing is for sure: Lucasfilm under Disney does NOT understand characters (either why the old ones were successful, or how to build new ones). I can't think of a single character in the SW sequels that had an interesting and coherent arc. Lots of potential in Ep 7 that all went down the toilet in Ep 8, and the disaster was forever sealed with Ep 9..
I couldn't agree more with the summary made of Luke Skywalker here. He was an effective, well-written, and relatable archetype simply completing the hero's journey. Well done, Drinker!
Was about to say finn but yeah that’s wasted potential, Kylo isn’t bad tho
@@jamespell1138 Finn's arc was over in the first 10 minutes of his screen time
Finn got completely fisted
Rey's Arc was finding out she's the best Fighter, Jedi, Pilot, and Sailor ever and life is easy.
@@jamespell1138 Yeah Kylo was honestly the closest one to be a real decent character, but there are too many inconsistencies with his choices/actions that by the end I couldn't really grasp why he ended up where he did. He was doubtful in Ep 7, took control of his evil destiny in Ep 8, and the script did a complete 180 in Ep 9 not because he realized he had been duped all along by Palpatine (uuugh), not because someone made him understand that the whole thing with Luke was a misunderstanding (uuuuuuuuggh), but because.. Rey healed him and Leia died and he had a memory of Han (???). Seriously, I'm not even joking here, why did he decide to team up with Rey and turn on the First Order despite promises of absolute power (which was always his goal)?
I'm speechless, this cant be true Drinker! My mind is blown, and not from the alcohol!
*Search your feelings, you know it to be true.*
Not in a million years would I have thought this to be true.
@John Adams HA HAAAA
@John Adams I didn't see this joke coming. Much like Lincoln didn't see the end of the play.
Bro I was actually about to type the same thing. This video was absolutely amazing.
Classic Luke: successfully reasons with a mass-murdering evil cyborg wizard because he believes there's still some humanity left inside the monster.
Woke Luke: goes to live on a remote island and drink green milk straight from the alien boob because he failed to murder his sleeping teenage nephew who was having some angsty thoughts.
There's no need to decanonise shitty sequels when they are clearly not part of the original canon to begin with.
I wouldn't say woke but more of a deconstructed character so that fans can think maybe he wasn't the hero they thought was. Fans would rather of seen a Luke that reached out and tried to help ben but was to late. People would like Luke that way because it would mean Luke is still the hopeful and optimistic character we love and not a depressed asshole who has given up on the jedi
@person person He didn’t try to murder a child in sleep because he got cold feet though
And it’s obviously just a carbon copy of yoda anyway, the "lost master that needs to be found in a remote location".
With the difference that Rey, of course, was already perfect anyway before so there literally was no reason for her to go there if you recall the events. Her character at the end is virtually identical to the beginning of TFA, where is the character development? What has she learned except approval about being perfect already?
Sorry, a little bit of a tangent there
@person person So to prevent him from murdering children he’d murder children? This is exactly how a Sith would think, not a Jedi, and much less Luke.
There’s a way to make him believably be more bitter but this here is before he had secluded himself away from everyone, so it comes off completely random why he acts so impulsive, bitter and unwise.
Even if Luke was 100% convinced that something evil is taking hold of Kylo, HE HAS SEEN HIS OWN FATHER, THE GREATEST SERVANT UNDER THE EMPIRE FOR DECADES, KILL THE EMPEROR BEFORE HIS VERY OWN EYES! There is no reason to assume he wouldn’t search for the good in Kylo or at least try to make that side overpower the dark side. He believed in his father at the most unlikely of times, this character was hope incarnate, like Mark Hamill said, and we hadn’t gotten a reason to assume why he’d change like this during his time at the new jedi order.
@person person How tf are you getting confused here, I don’t think I’ve been subtle or ambiguous in any way. This is an example of character assassination put to film here
🙄
"It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding."
Upton Sinclair
Which is why you can't serve God AND mammon.
@@PitchToTheRhino1 mammon?
Good quote. Very true
@@carybeweary7209 Mammon is "money" in the New Testament.
The quote basically means either serve your moral compass (virtuous) or serve your greed (money), you can't have both.
@Shirane No Kappa Sounds like bullshit "advice", regardless.
Luke character finished with me in 83' coming out of the dominion theatre London . I'll always have that, a audience standing up cheering for the boy who became a jedi knight. Destroying a empire
One thing, Luke never took down the empire. It was both him and the friends he fought and sacrificed for.
*an
I wish I could have experienced that. I was born in 86, so I’ve never got to see them in theatre
@@justineharper3346 return of the Jedi ran for the whole summer in 83' it used to cost a pound and fifty to see it. i went once on my own a afternoon the whole cinema was mine sat right in the middle. and in those old cinemas the screens were very wide so the speeder chase through the Endor forest was amazing
Holy shit! Ive forgotten about movie-theatre audiences applauding the ending . Havent been but once in decades,& watching the Drinkers reviews reminds me why
I am not white nor male and yet I feel for Luke Skywalker. I can empathize with him. I don't want him to lose. I want him triumphant.
Meanwhile I don't give a damn about Rey, Shrek Tico, Vice Admiral Gender Studies or Captain Sociopathy. They can all die horribly and I wouldn't feel the slightest.
Don't do Shrek dirty like this dude
But completely agree
Rose. Such a pishy character. Basically just an extra shoehorned in so Finn had someone to talk to. Never stood a chance. I really do feel sorry for the actress, she was given a bucketful of shit to work with. Or Laura Dern, she did an excellent job. Aloof, sexist, condescending, secretive, unlikeable. She portrays all that brilliantly. I mean for godssakes she's so unlikeable that a significant chunk of her holier than thou "Resistance" crew mutinies and it seems totally believable because of the previous asshole behaviour. Good acting, terrible character.
@@chrisinstasis7986 Yep. Here character is so terrible that there are millions of her figures rotting along side other Sequel Trilogy toys.
@@chrisinstasis7986 More like shoehorned in to drag the guy around by his nose. All females are supposed to be depicted as the "master", don't you know? That's why that Rey character was automatically a Jedi master without any training or knowledge.
Hey, calling rose shrek is NOT okay. Shrek is one of the best characters in movie history and the shrek movie is a textbook example on how to make a good family movie.
In short, people like characters when they ACTUALLY HAVE CHARACTER. Audiences gravitate towards characters that are multidimensional - the way real human beings are - and not simply a vehicle used by the filmmakers to propound an agenda or to give voice to some contemporary angst.
When the ryders (not writers) create a movie or tv show by grabbing cool looking scenes (often slavishly copied or using watered down versions of the scene they copied) and gobbing it together like a 3rd grader's collage mixed medium art project and do not put in a narrative thread, the characters are dragged about like the cardboard stand ups with plastic bases on a boring board game. (I like good board games.) So even before or without an SJW agenda, there is little room for characterization of the characters. The bottom line is that the viewers will emotionally bond with the characters and this bond makes them care what happens to the characters. If this is missing, viewers might complain about everything else, because they are not engaged with the characters. When they are emotionally engaged with the characters, they will overlook and ignore or look last bad sets an# costumes, and many other problems and flaws.
They might not have noticed that they were well written....but their brain did!
@TheGreaterGood80
Exactly, I say this in shorthand when I say female and black and gay is not inherently interesting, brown and bisexual and young and female is not inherently interesting, old and white amd male is not inherently interesting, pretend I gave more examples, until the writer makes them interesting.
Don't skip the characterization of the characters which should be driving the action and the plot thread. They have a forced diversity checklist of characters that must be in the movie and they are stealing scenes from other movies, often copying them badly without a proper build up to the dramatic climax of a scene or slavishly copying every detail and thus the scene looks good but does not seem to be fitted into the movie like puffy sleeves on a bikini. There is often no narrative thread holding these scenes together. So the character was here in the former scene but now is here in this scene. A character us in this scene but why. People argue but the argument does not seem to affect what happens next. Watching a plotless wonder of a movie is a first frustrating and then is mind numbing and the experience is forgetful. What is missing is the viewer emotionally bonding to the characters and the viewer suspending disbelief and then becoming enthralled by the spectacle and for a time entering the make believe world of that story. We have movies that have bits that look good and some are beautifully shot but these movies do not tell a story. Until human brains change, what a movie or tv showmust do is to tell a story and a story works when we know why people do what they do and we believe it as in it feels like somebody sould think that it feel that way or do that thing at this moment meaning it feels emotionally true.
@@eastlynburkholder3559 A good argument for this is the FBI detective in Boondock Saints played by William Dafoe. He was a gay in the movie but holy shit he was an insane character.
People like good characters it's amazing that we reached the point where we need to say this out loud
It's sad what our society film industry books, tv shows comic books have turned into wokeness political correctness and identity feminism, the soy world narcissism......mental insanity at its finest!
What’s more amazing is that after being said, it will be ignored.
Sadder still that it's taken a permanently drunk Scotsman to say it.
How did a billion dollar industry become like this
Well we have to remind people that the earth is round so... Yeah
Mark Hamill cares so much for the character of Luke Skywalker. You can tell it's not just because he played him, he cares about the importance/impact the character has on our culture.
he still took the money to play Luke again though. bad decision. shouldve stayed retired. he doesnt seem to enjoy being a sellout like harrison ford does.
@@TheSuperappelflap Yah he signed a contract way before knowing all of the details and script. He's shown many times how genuinely shocked he was with the direction of the character.
To be fair, Mark Hamill is a whiny liberal. I can almost guarantee he was endorsing the woke movement until it affected his little legacy.
Mark Hamill is a snowflake crybaby though so it makes sense that he’d be okay with the older character
Then why did he subject himself to such humiliation?!
It's sorta funny that Tony Stark is sort of the anti-Rey Kennedy. (Yes she's a "skywalker," but whatever) Rey's meant to be everything the target audience is supposed to love, a preachy overpowered strong woman. Tony Stark on the other hand was meant to be everything the target audience would hate. A drunken egotistical arms dealer is the exact sort of thing audiences would use as a stock villain in those days. Funny how good writing can take something to new heights, innit?
Tony Stark's character had solid foundations and natural growth. I don't like him as a personality, but I understand him. Ray Sue on the other hand is as dazzling and fascinating as a piece of clear wrap squeezed into a ball under sparkling lights.
Well, we see Stark suffer and struggle more in the first 10 minute of his movie than Rey in the whole trilogy.
Stark is a flawed, human, relatable character. He was given his fortune, true, but he also struggles, accomplishes things, fails and try again.
Rey is a Mary Sue. She can do anything just because, and is handed over everything.
@@diersteinjulien6773 That's what Stan Lee intended. His quote from an interview was:
“I think I gave myself a dare. It was the height of the Cold War. The readers, the young readers, if there was one thing they hated, it was war, it was the military. So I got a hero who represented that to the hundredth degree. He was a weapons manufacturer, he was providing weapons for the Army, he was rich, he was an industrialist. I thought it would be fun to take the kind of character that nobody would like, none of our readers would like, and shove him down their throats and make them like him ... And he became very popular.”
Drunk, egotistical, womanizing, arms dealer, and the heir to billions of dollars.
Everyone loves him. Could it possibly be the struggle, failure, and eventual growth?
Sol Quint yep!
People like good characters? Sounds like a patriarchal micro-aggression.
Dude. I know this is a joke. But it's gotten to the point where my body literally entered fight-or-flight mode just reading something like that. The war's been going too long, mate. I don't think I'll ever fully return to my old innocence, my faith in people.
I wonder if hearing phrases like this sixty years down the track will set me into a flashback... I'm not optimistic :(
This comment is gold🤣
I am literally shaking, completely flabbergassed by this idea itself. We need to ban good characters, they are supporting white nazi alt-right fascist supremacy.
Sure, if you're sexist.
@@LinkMarioSamus you might be aware of this already, but just in case, the original comment wasn't being serious :) if they were, we would have already thoroughly defenestrated them
You forgot to mention it is also important how the characters interact and relate to each other, like Luke, Han and Leia. The way the three relate to each other and grow together is important. Luke and Leia feel a bond, but romance is awkward for reasons we discover. Luke and Han develop a deep camaraderie though they are very different. Each of the three will genuinely sacrifice everyting for the others and learn to trust each other at a deep level.
Modern writers don't seem capable of creating "complex" three-way relationships like that nowadays😔😔😔.....
@@colinluckens9591 We can all support the very Concept of Smart Writing Itself.
Random examples:
Jay Excis 5 hour Video, Madvocates Flash-Coverage, Terrible Wrirting Advice,
Drinker himself (duh) and Hbomberguy.
Oh, and you can support Noob-Writers or even become one yourself.
Channel like Reedsy and Krimson Rogue help you improve.
And mates take the piss out of each other
My wife and her cousin (stuck here with us due to quarantine) decided to watch the entire Star Wars series (the nine movies from the main story line) the other day. They watched them in chronological order.
With no expectations, nostalgia or memory of the original trilogy in the way, they enjoyed the prequels. The original trilogy took them a bit of getting used to the dated special effects, but ultimately they loved the story line. At the end of Return of the Jedi my wife asked me why they made the sequels. Didn’t the story conclude perfectly and where were they going to go from here?
They then started watching The Force Awakens and after half an hour turned it off. They found it complete shite and were wondering who all these fake characters were. It confirmed my choice to never watch any of these three sequels. Particularly as it seems the last two are even way worse than The Force Awakens
Can't speak to the quality of IX as I never saw it, but whereas VII just made me disappointed, VIII actually made me angry. Everything was so shameless, the pandering to the chinese market, the ham-fisted and preachy social justice messaging, the clear lack of overall vision for the series, and most unforgivably in my opinion the assassination of the character of Luke Skywalker. Any Star Wars made by Disney is non-canonical as far as I'm concerned.
Haha yep, I did the same, my girlfriend never saw a single Star Wars so we got the 1 week free trial for Disney Plus (and immediately cancelled when we finished so we didn't feed the mouse a single dollar).
We did the originals first, then prequels and sequels. It was fun watching her interest grow, 4 was just ok to her, but by the time of 6 she loved the ending and the theme of family and redemption across the story. We did the prequels and she liked the world building of them, the story of Anakin in the full arc, and the larger themes (hated Jar Jar though haha).
When we got to the sequels she was clearly a lot less interested, getting up multiple times for drinks or the restroom or to check emails, etc. She shouted out loud at some point in 7 "this is the same movie, what's the point?" and we got to 8 and 9 and she was actually mad at how it just undoes the RotJ's perfect finale and was super pissed at "Rey Skywalker" lol. I guess she and your wife and cousin are all misogynists for not liking them right? LOL
I definitely agree with everyone else here. Compared to the OT (and even the prequels which I have always enjoyed as well), the prequels don't come close to the complexity and intrigue of their predecessors. When I saw episode 7, I was like ok this is kind of bad they just copied the plot of A New Hope with new characters, but it wasn't totally horrible. Episode 8 got worse, particularly in how they handled Luke's character, and it generally was poorly done and there's no character development or progression throughout the different movies. However, aside from ruining the character development and conclusion of the original trilogy and prequels (especially in how they ruined Luke's development and Anakin's redemption), episode 9 was one of the worst movies I've ever seen all time. Even regardless of how it ruins canon and the previous films (like bringing back Palpatine because they had no other ideas or vision for the trilogy), it still stands alone as a shite movie. There were so many plot holes, nothing is earned or makes sense, and it's one of the most surface-level boring films ever. It definitely pissed me off and left me incredibly unsatisfied. After all these years of watching Star Wars my expectations weren't that high to wrap it up, but I thought at least I'd feel some sense of conclusion or completeness. ROTJ is a perfect ending and I think I'll just not watch the sequels again.
I tell my wife everyday she is lucky she couldn't make it to the movies to see The Rise of Skywalker. She's never seen it to this day and probably never will.
If you have Disney+ you should watch Clone Wars! The last 4 episodes of season 7 were amazing and go right in Episode III. If you liked the prequals, I think you will love, as long as you are okay with an animated series...
It is a sad time we live in when a guy with not even 500k subscribers has more wisdom than the entirety of hollywood and journalism united.
he's an established author, so his number of subscribers really don't fucking matter. It shouldn't even be used to elevate or amplify his message or words, if he's right then he's right. I'm just being a semi pretentious dick at this point, but people like you are what's wrong with modern audiences of any form of media, even if your opinion and mine are the same and what I'd even consider to be the "correct" opinion here.
@@JohnnyBo-v calm down, he's not trying to paint a bad image, he's just saying that the drinker is essentially a nobody to Hollywood.
Yeah. Listening to the things this man has said, he could probably rewrite Star Wars 8-9 and have done a better job than Hollywood itself. Man, I miss the originals.
There are some guys and gals around that don't even have 5,000 subscribers that I would take over all of Hollywood and journalism combined, any day of the week, and nine times on Sunday.
Thankfully, that number's nearing a million now.
I LOVE that you touched on how people may not be able to articulate why something is good or bad but knows it when they see it, almost like an instinct. They aren’t stupid or missing the important “theme” or whatever the excuse is.
You don’t assume your audience is stupid and I appreciate and respect that so much! Thank you!
It’s so sad that strong female characters have been so politicized. I have a three year old daughter who LOVES the original trilogy. She knows the names of all the characters and has a very basic understanding of the plot(who is good who is bad). I showed her The Force Awakens, and she was confused. She didn’t follow it or realize there was any connection to the original trilogy even thou I told her it was a Star Wars movie. My daughter is three years old and she recognizes good writing over bad.
I wasn't going to bother showing it to my 3 year old for a long long time, maybe ever.
You told her it was a Star Wars movie? You monster!
When I was a kid, I thought the prequels were way better than the originals, cuz the prequels were so flashy.
This is the most r/thathappened thing I've read in a while
I agree. Seems suspicious
Since when did bad writing become an olympic-level skill desired by movie and game companies?
When they realised that people have good will for a beloved series and will buy the next installment to get their fix.
Good will only last so long, and people are starting to realise that it's a cash grab. They love beating dead horses if it means they get a couple more pennies out of it.
When the only people that get hired are through nepotism. Look at all this new gen of celebrities. They are mostly the offspring of the previous generation of celebrities.
SkyNinja759 things 2: you’ve descibed EA in a nutshell
Example: FIFA, do I need to say more? If so, it’s the same game, every single time, with maybe some differences here and there, and in classic ea fashion HEAPS upon HEAPS of microtransactions
Since Michael Bay and M Night Shyamalan perfected it
Being political correct has become the new post-tard Olympics.
"People bonded with Luke because fundamentally he was a well written character played by a good actor..."
This.
Right.
Here.
J Truts wdym
@@MESRogerStudios wdym wdym
the actors in last jedi werent even bad
XEN_WOLF F it’s not a matter of the actors though. Their ability to act doesn’t necessarily change the fact that they were written badly. I’m no critic of acting so I can’t speak on that but bad writing is bad writing and it is t the actors fault all the time, it’s more of the script and story
@@yatharthjain2273 Yeah and it's a damn shame the writing was so bad cause I really do like the majority of the actors in the sequels
The 72 people who “disliked” this are Scott Mendolson.
that's the wrong scott, kurt
Scott Mendelsohn blamed the failure of the King Arthur movie on it having a white male protagonist no less than 3 times in his review. Yes, you heard that right. He said that because King Arthur was portrayed by a white male, the movie failed (as opposed to it just being shit with some new age annoying writing and being full of non-nonsensical box-ticking diversity with blacks and Asians in prominent roles in centre screen).
It seems Mendelsohn suffers from fatal levels of white-guilt.
"people" heh, heh
Nice one, brother ;D
@Kurt Barryman
-_- why the fuck must they all have germanic surnames, it makes things very confusing.
"People"?
When I saw what they have done to Picard ie made him into little more than a weak old man, my first instinct was not to bother with the series and just remember him as he was. I'm glad I made that decision
So infuriating as someone who was raised up with TNG! I rage quit Picard in Episode 5, when the senseless killing of Icheb happened. It's sad to see, that TNG's Encounter at Farpoint Picard had more integrity that this parallel universe Picard
Yea when I first heard about Picard I was like great then I heard the drinkers review I was like never mind
@ludlow 889 One does have the option of reading the ST:TNG (and ST and...) novels to keep in touch with the REAL Capt. Picard (and Kirk and...) They're 100% better and many of them would've made excellent movies.
It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite movie lines. When Jor-El was talking to Zod in Man of Steel, he said to him, "I will honor the man you once were, Zod, not the monster you have become."
It stinks to see these great characters slide into these dark places. But at least I can go into the past and remember and honor them as they once were.
Glad I know not to bother with it now...
As a big Luke Skywalker fan, thank you for this! Kathleen Kennedy can talk about the Force being female now all she wants, but I'm a woman, and Luke's always been my favorite, and the one I relate to. One thing I'd like to add- a lot of us have suffering in life, and that's one thing we can relate with in him, such as when he lost his hand and the way it happened. I can think of some other characters (the kind that writers are always trying to push on the audience) who would also have gone rushing off before they were ready; but instead of *them* getting hurt, it would have happened to another character.
nice subtle observation (oh no I killed chewie!)
@@hawkthetraveler6344 My respect for the sequels would have gone up immensely if he had stayed dead
Mendelson thinks the fans are the people who beat him up and took his lunch money as a kid. He thinks that his job is to get revenge on them.
He thinks fans can only like "tough guys" because he thinks we go to the theaters to have our egos stroked. He doesn't get that what fans like are complex characters driven by well written internal conflict that the audience can understand and relate to because they're universal.
Scott Mendelsohn blamed the failure of the King Arthur movie on it having a white male protagonist no less than 3 times in his review. Yes, you heard that right. He said that because King Arthur was portrayed by a white male, the movie failed (as opposed to it just being shit with some new age annoying writing and being full of non-nonsensical box-ticking diversity with blacks and Asians in prominent roles in centre screen).
It seems Mendelsohn suffers from fatal levels of white-guilt.
I think you are spot on. Mendelson appears to have had a troublesome youth and trying to take revenge at a later age. Pathetic, really.
@ Well said !
I don't know what kind of school he went to then. Where I'm from, being a star wars nerd was the single best way to find yourself at the bottom of the social ladder lol
Then again it's not like mendelson has a grasp of reality so whatever I guess
@ I want to know when "straight white male" became an insult. Because how dare people be attracted to the opposite gender, be white and have a dick "sarcasm."
Well-written characters will change, adapt, and grow to accommodate new situations, i.e. Hero's Journey.
Badly written characters will not change, forcing the situation to accommodate them, i.e. Mary Sue.
That doesn't sound like a Mary Sue. A flat character yeah, but even flat characters can be interesting.
@@sugartoothYT Even for this channel,
this Video here was surpsiingly Good.
People! Actively share it! Dont just hope
more people will see it,
but make it happen!!
@@learn2draw716 mary sues most defining feature, is fact that oftenplot bends in illogical ways to help character. Like the dagger thing in last jedi, the sheer amount of luck and coincidences is absurd.
The Luke I grew up with, the one whose spirit and good heart always kept him strong, the one whose kind hearted nature saw the good in the second most dangerous man in the Galaxy even when everyone else, even his own mentor gave up on him…
That man would NEVER abandon his family or give up on his nephew, even after a brief moment of weakness.
Best entrance to a pub:
“The Drinkerz ‘ere with a hose pipe in hand!”
The 1 dislike is from a person who actively roleplays as a deer
41 dislikes with over 7k likes. These deer only have one agenda, and if you look at the big picture it's to bring down western civilization. Unfortunately they are very loud and Hollywood agrees with them.
_Every breath I take without your permission raises my self steem._ - Rick Sanchez
@@dugclrk "Bring down civilization" ..... ? ..... Congratulations, you are officially crazier than the crazy deer people
@@dugclrk Toxic ruminancy?
“Suffer not the furry to live desu”
-The Sisters of Battle
Folks who don't get Superman puzzle me, there IS a great character in there. He's basically a "god" who has made the conscious choice to live in the confines of a humble ordinary man. That's a huge challenge, as Ben Franklin once said "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." How does one who wants to do good and live an ordinary life survive corruption when he has that much power? Can he resist temptation or is his fall inevitable? It's an interesting journey.
"A character is only as good as his nemesis" And I would add the other way around works the same.
You probably know about this contest but here it goes anyways.
th-cam.com/video/8GClG-kx0HY/w-d-xo.html
By the way the idea that power corrupts is wrong beacuse the more powerfull someone is the less corruptable he is: an hypothecal king of the world would be by definition incorruptable because there is nothing you can really give him that he couldn't take himself, same goes for superman, partial power makes people corruptable (that's why every democratic polititian is corrupt as opposed to kings who generally weren't) and ben Franklin lied knowngly and that phrase is just democratic progagand and the opposit of truth because democracy sustains itself on deception, and it allways has historically
@@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443 Interesting thought process and in one sense of a theory you'd be right, except that you're missing a key part of corruption. Corruption isn't just what one can offer us in a bribe, but also can be having that which we aren't meant to have, that which is forbidden. You can be King of the world, but what if in having everything else you want one person out of all humans to love and obey you...but because you're a tyrant they hate you and refuse. You force your absolute will on them incarcerate their body, try to break their mind, assault them, but they never give in. One becomes gross in their immorality. One with that level of power will corrupt and ultimately want to be God. God power is forbidden. In our seeking for absolute power we find the original evil of Lucifer from the Bible, and ultimate corruption.
@@JamesRDavenport corruption is not that tho, also on your point, if you are god you are incorruptible
@@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443 Tell that to the Greeks. Also, while it may not be corruption by the dictionary definition, language does evolve and people these days tend to use the word to mean "use of power in an immoral way". So James isn't wrong.
Shocking people like good and interesting characters, charisma vaccums and heros acting more like villains who are
amazing at everything are boring, bland planks of wood.
explain, then please, why everyone seems to love Game of Thrones. most of its characters were charisma vacuums/heroes acting like villains/downright despicable assholes, and yet it was (until season 8, that is) considered to be "superior to Lord of the Rings" which, in contrast, had clearly moral characters
@@OneTrueVikingbard right place right time I assume.
@@OneTrueVikingbard Unfortunately in the real world being a good guy gets you killed. Game of thrones embraces that.
@@OneTrueVikingbard The only "charisma vacuum" in Game of Thrones were perhaps Cersei and Arya. Most of the characters were very lively. But, yes, many were assholes.
Why did having so many villainous characters work for Game of Thrones? Because the audience wasn't beaten over the head with insistence that the assholes were good people. Most of the assholes were clearly intended to be despicable from the start, and the writers allowed the audience to hate the despicable characters and root for the good ones (like Rob Stark and Jon Snow). Really, the only character that was presented (at first) as being a "good person" that was in fact a villain, was Danerys. And the whole point of her character was to show how her initial good intentions were warped into despotism by her ego. It was pretty plain to see that she was turning into a villain by the third or fourth season. The fact that some radical feminists out there failed to recognize Danerys' underlying villainy only serves to prove that section of the audience are denser than tungsten and happy to enact despotism as long as it's their despots in charge; it does not mean the character was poorly written.
marsjacobvolta This statement is correct
Seeing young Luke while listening to Drinker's commentary made me remember what SW used to be. It made me want to weep anew at how one of my favorite stories/franchises has been destroyed.
"I am a Jedi, like my father before me."
Yep. Tearing up for real.
We loved Luke because we went on the journey with him. He overcame his failures and he earned his successes. And through him, so did we.
To someone with your supercillious attitude I'm sure he did.
This is a great analysis of the problems in society in entertainment and Hollywood, no one cares about gender, race, religion or anything in the world. Having a character grow, change and become better as an individual is something we all want to be in ourselves. We should see more of this in movies, regardless of agendas and political ideals.
I totally agree....
Sorry, Drinker, but that sounds too much like the F word.
"eFFort."
-signed Hollywood
"eFFort."
I heard that in the Drinkers voice in my head.
Why use the word Hollywood like it's a studio? It's the name of the industry. The same industry which gave us John Wick, Hans Landa, Django and so many more well written characters. Don't generalize the whole industry. They even made Tony Stark a hero who was never A grade character in comics.
@@ameybirulkar7503 way to overthink a joke about group think. I bet you don't get memes either, do you?
@@simplegarak I'm used to better comedy than memes.
@@ameybirulkar7503 "Ma'am, this is a youtube comment section."
(get what you pay for)
Drinker, why did you have to introduce me to “deergasms”
Let’s be honest this needs more likes
@Cactus and voice chat
@The Other Point Of View It's not all bad. The concept was a good one and there were some okay and good streamers there. Just that a shit SJW schizophrenic deer and a bunch of "professionals" came in and ruined it.
+Stryker
Yeah! WTF was that?
Scarred for life.
10:03
I always thought Rey looked stupid when she used the Force.
She has her ‘trying as hard as she can’ face on, which takes away the entire essence of what the Force is. Do, or do not. There is no try.
The only time someone’s hand has ever been outstretched like that when using the Force is when they shove someone, and even then it’s only for a moment.
"Their actions and decisions are consistent with their personalities" - you missed an important prerequisite there (I blame the whiskey) - they *have* personalities!
Never blame whiskey!
@@taunokekkonen5733 depends on the whiskey...
I have a bottle of a budget brand of Taiwanese whiskey bought as a joke, made by a subsidiary of one of the islands car companies. Trust me, that stuff is every bit as bad as you're imagining and it deserves every bit of blame it gets!
Nah. According to Hollywood its because they are white.
Luke (just like Frodo) is also the "fish out of water" the audience is meant to relate to as the characters will be explained and learn how the world and setting works.
Haven't seen Picard and I will never watch it "shut the **** up" , how does that type of useless dialogue make it into a star trek show of all things?
It was awful... A chore to watch
to be fair though, in the end (spoiler) she kinda eats those words when Picard is proven right, and gives him exactly what he asked for in the first place.
To be fair Patrick Start is 80 but it is the future and they didn't have to portray him as old and weak. Especially weak of the mind. I found it kind of depressing. Star Trek used to be uplifting and all about equality and teamwork and the fact that they seem to want to destroy that shows it isn't equality they seek.
Because modern Star Trek is written by children.
The only scene that showed a glimmer of the Luke we remembered - mourning Han's death was deleted from L. Jedi but instead we got important scenes like green milk!
Decent writers,Good script with relatable characters and a cohesive plan , Disney: nah it'll be fine, lets wing it!
cohesive plan is the key. That why many of us enjoy watching chess even though the knight or queen don't show any expression. ^_^
they don't even have to be relatable, just consistent.
Thanks to this video, I have finally been able to make a good arc that I can work the story with for my character that I've been working on for the past 6-8 months, genuinely. The way you explained these character's arcs in such a brief summary and showed the Hero's Journey chart gave me a clear vision of how I wanted MY own character to develop.
you are truly a bold and inspiring drunk.
“Do these things, and the character stands a good chance of being well received. Do it not, and the Drinker will be paying you a little visit.”
Question: If they do these things, won’t you be paying them a visit anyway in the form of the Drinker Recommends?
Sshhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Naw. This has nothing to do with his reviews. He literally goes down their chimney and leaves a lump of shit in their laundry basket...the kind of shit a Scotsman takes when he's downed 3 bottles of whiskey and a shot of Toilet Duck.
Yes, Yes he does.
But even Jack Sparrow as a scoundrel had Will Turner as the "boy-scout" character to balance the film out and drive character development. Part of the fun of watching is seeing these characters face different ordeals and get tested. Even anime like Naruto or Luffy uses this concept.
Douglas D Yup. When they made Jack the main central character (2nd movie and Beyond) it didn’t work.
Didn't work in "Dead men tell no tales"
@@themanwithnonamecalledwyat7575 Well you also need chemistry 😂
Thank you for this, mate. This video should be sent to everyone at Disney and watched by any aspiring filmmaker who cares to connect with an audience.
An excellent analysis Drinker, which illustrates why you have the skills to be a writer and many in Hollywood do not. The era of PC and identity politics writing cannot produce interesting characters as its mechanical and inflexible checklist approach to things makes them unrealistic and dull cyphers. In fact much if Hollywood screenwriting reminds me of the propaganda films of totalitarian states like the Soviet Union.
We are living in a liberal dictatorship where cancellation is the gulag and you are subjected to whines and screams, instead of a firing squad. It is a subtle totalitarian regime that tries to control people's behavior and strangle their expressiveness. It doesn't use guns, though. It uses privilege and money to drown whoever they don't like into oblivion.
Most of the comments here are click-baity, but I liked yours, so I upvoted it.
THIS is why I would watch a movie or show written by Drinker...
@@manniking233 You are telling the absolute truth. I can't believe how obvious this is to me and seemingly few others. Social media is being tampered with to present THEIR view as the positive. You are racist/sexist/[insert offense here] for disliking this movie. It's disgusting! Majority rules do not apply. It's disturbing to say the least!
“Audiences aren’t as dumb as Hollywood thinks they are”. I think you hit the nail on the head there....that and they need to stop thinking all they need to do is check off boxes spat out by a logarithm. Lazy uninspired writing.
The lowest common denominator used to be higher...
I agree. I think the saddest thing in how western entertainment industries operates nowadays is that they think everything is a construct that can be manipulated, from their products to their audience's taste. Frankly it doesn't work that way. Works that born from brilliant and well crafted thinking will find it's way to their audience's heart. It's not simply a construct. You cannot simply defy this by flipping this so called construct of whatever just to subvert expectations, the quality of the contents must came first. That's precisely why people can sympathize with Walter White, Jaimie Lannister, GTA protagonist, and some other morally questionable character out there. When creators crafted believable writing, people will bond to it. You cannot force your audience to like someone just because they defy expectations, that's just poor excuse.
Mark himself knew Disney spat on him and tried to talk about it without being mean until Disney silenced him and that in itself made a ton of people ditch Disney.
The wholesome hero is a foil to the dashing rogue, who would have thought.
It appears that Hollywood seems to think the only way to write a strong female character is to tear down the characters around them. It would be more effective to build these characters up in a believable manner, rather than say everyone else is garbage this person is great. It's pretty disrespectful to the character and the audience.
I used to hold a similar view of Walter White as you put forth. After watching Breaking Bad a second time, though, I completely changed my analysis. Walter was always a terrible person. You see early on that his ego is out of control, and that he constantly blames others for his misfortunes. He never takes responsibility for his actions. He blames his former best friend and business partner for his lack of success, he blames his ex-fiancée for his unhappiness while disregarding her side of the story, he blames his wife for problems at home, etc. He was never a sympathetic character, merely a pathetic one. His metamorphosis into a ruthless crime boss was the natural conclusion of his personality, ego, and life choices. He has a moment of clarity at the end of the show, of course, and in that moment he comes close to actually taking responsibility for his actions, but he knows it’s too late, and that the words would be meaningless if he uttered them. The only heroic action he performs in the entire show is sacrificing himself for Jesse in the finale.
Wish certain people would understand that. Rather than just write a character for brownie points actually come up with something all people will like.
Brownie points is all that matters in Hollywood today.
@@denisl2760 sad days 😒
Black Panther was all about brownie points
Though it is impossible to write a character that all people like, you make a fair point.
One of my favorite scenes with Luke was when his assumptions of how a jedi master should look and act were shattered by the appearance of Yoda. After realizing how wrong he was he humbled himself and begged Yoda to reconsider his decision. I really admired Luke then and my respect for the character doubled. Of course his refusal to kill his father despite what he had become earned my respect and admiration as well I wondered what I would've done. If I were truly honest I'd have to say I would've killed Vader regardless.
Wait, what? They ACTUALLY used the „f“ word on Star Trek?!?!? That’s just not right
They think it makes it "adult". This is the 12 year old mentality of today's creatives...
That's all Picard is, "Smart" strong women telling JL to eff off all the time, more or less. Which I honestly don't get. I mean, JL was a progressive. Surely they can't hate him just because he's a white him...right?
It's called 'soul'. You can only empathize with a character that shows true human attributes. The paper thin characters in the sequel trilogy lack depth. At every stage Rey has been shown to be just a snotty nosed, overpowered brat. She don't need no man and they Reylo thing was utterly contrived and only appealed to vacuous Twitterheads who would not know a good story if it slammed them in their smartphone account.
It's not that she didn't need a man by her side, she didn't need ANYONE. That's the most basic definition of a Mary Sue.
Rey is so horrible written, that I don't even care about her. Sometimes we love to hate characters with a passion - and at least they evoke an emotion in us. Rey is just incongruent and completely 'meh' that the only emotion she invokes in me is a slight annoyance that I can't see something interesting.
@@Runenschuppe "Here comes the plot contrivance incarnated."
You nailed it with one word: RESPECT! I've thought for a long time that the writers for Star Wars, Dr. Who, etc. have shown no respect whatsoever for the brilliant characters and franchises with which they've been entrusted.
When you break it down like this, it amazes me how the current crop of “writers” for these woke movies ever got near a position of responsibility. They don’t seem to grasp the most basic fundamentals of story telling.
Yeah I wouldn't trust them to make my coffee
@@mrcliff3709
"What's wrong with black coffee? you some kinda racist?"
Hollywood is nothing more than propaganda pushing an agenda nowadays, those writers are doing exactly their job.
I believe there is a historically used term of "useful idiots" which serves here as a bit of explanation as to why it is happening. If you want to shove your agenda down the public's throat, you use an effigy, a trained monkey with megaphone that will do exactly what you want. You don't need competence, but obedience.
@@dradamov bruh that's one of many reasons why both extremes of politics are dangerous
A character that’s flawed and connects to the viewer in a humane way will always be more compelling than “perfection”
And the characters the hacks refer to as 'too perfect' actually are relatable. A well-written Superman story portrays him as human with the powers of a god. He has doubts and fears. There are people he loves and despises. Sometimes he has trouble figuring out what the right thing to do is in a complicated world.
Nobody likes Mary Sues.
Except hacks.
There are the perfect Mary Sues, and the painfully flawed ones, Hollywood can't think in a 3 dimensional way
@Cactus Darth Forehead. Magnificent!!
I’ve been rewatching TNG over lockdown (always a laugh to watch Riker shag his away across the galaxy) and Jean Luc is almost unrecognisable compared to the Picard show. It’s like they don’t know or will fully ignored his character’s story and motivations completely!
Personally, I feel like it validates some of the claims about disputes between roddenberry and stewert back when tng was ongoing, you listen to some interviews and its kind of clear patrick never really felt invested in the show or the character and it shows here, well that and nemesis which he also had a hand in directing.
@@DigitalGame18 Not sure I agree with that last part. Tough to lay the blame at the feet of the 79 year old man.
Otherwise, yeah, watching TNG is like watching a completely different character
@@Roper122 Well, Sir Patrick had gone full woke and openly admits it; he's only his childhood troubles that offer some ... redemption in that regard. Just look at him spewing hatred and mockery on Magna Carta in anti-Brexit advert.
@@piotrd.4850 I don't think being anti-brexit means going full woke. And although there's no doubt that he didn't want to repeat TNG, I'm still not laying the blame on him.
@@Roper122 True, but WAY he agressively belittles one of greatest achievements of his country and civilisation in general for low political reasons... that is radical activism, woke or not. Nobody wanted or expected TNG; but still, people expected Star Trek and Picard, not cheap Mass Effect rip-off, down to ship aesthetics/plot and John Luck Prickard. The idea of once powerful figure fighting external and internal problems (age, intrigue, ego, indeffrernce) is great (see: TNG Family). The execution was terrible.
"Journey". That word says it all, and none of the new writers seem to understand it.
Can't remember the source of the quote but it went something like, "There's nothing so profound as returning to an unchanged place, only to see how you yourself have changed." But some writers don't want their characters to change.
Drinker, you restore my faith in humanity. I wish I could shake your hand.
THAT'S NOT SOCIAL DISTANCING! YOU WANT TO KILL PEOPLE!
/sarc
Buy him a drink instead
Characters that are interesting, complex and consistent in their motivations and actions are what audiences want. Good writers are the most important part of the creative process. Bad writing can not be fixed by flashy effects or media shills.
And respect the source material. You want to tell your own story, then use original characters and world building to do it. At any interview for a director or writer, the studio should require before the interview that they read at least some good examples of the source material or watch prior shows or movies.
I would add that these characters we love are either realistic people we sympathize with or archetypes of humanity (for better and worse) we learn from. Either way, it gives us something and someone to care about. Characters that are just there to fulfill a plot purpose or deliver a message don't do that, so we don't care.
This reminds me of the story of one of my favorite authors, Jim Butcher. Early in his career he tells the inception story for one of his series. He and another author were arguing about whether good concepts or good writing make a great story. Believing that he was writing that makes a great story, he accepted a bet. Take two lousy concepts, Lost Roman Legion and Pokemon, and make a quality story. Thus, was the Codex Alera born.
I was wondering why that book was so good, really took me by surprise.
@Razgriz the Mandalorian I’m just excited for 12 months, the wait for battle grounds and peace talks drove me fuckin nuts
It may be because Pokemon is so culturally ingrained and recognizable that it actually would be a challenge to reconfigure it in a way that makes sense in a novel story without obviously ripping it off.
Can we all just agree that TLJ Luke is actually just "Jake Skywalker" as Mark Hamill put it?
that's exactly who he is in that movie.
We all agree
So are we prepared to finally admit the unthinkable: that given the fact that Mark Hamill understands his character better than the directors and writers, that he would have made a better Star Wars movie than Rian and JJ? 😅
@@KamilDevonish To be fair I'm pretty sure a 5th grader could've made a better Star Wars movie with the right team backing them up.
@@mewnani they could have picked the most popular SW books about the events after Episode VI, and turned them into a movie script.
The reason why I keep returning to this channel is because the critiques are so much more honest and on the spot than anything you find on 'normal' media outlets.
Alita is a great example:
Great world building.
Great action scenes.
Great main character.
However, the support cast were weak compared to Alita and the actual plot of the movie is kind of weak too, but a lot of people still lost their minds over that movie solely because of how much they loved Alita as a character.
supporting cast was weak because they were underused, the movies runtime was too tight to allow it, hugo needed more time with Alita for their relationship to be plausible, Vector and Chiren also needed time to make their motivations clear and Chirens change of heart more believable. the movie is great but a victim of its own adherance to the mangas story, it just cannot be adequately done in 2 hours , but i am happy they gave it a shot.
We also lost our minds because it had been a while since we saw a female character who wasn't a Mary Sue grace our screens
@@Edgebotv4 Yeah, the one James Cameron movie I wish was 3 hours long lol
Yeah, Alita kind of overshadowed the other characters because Rosa was so passionate about her role, and Keean was an inexperienced actor, albeit still a competent one. The plot arc was good, but it mostly started without really finishing and instead just stopped (hence the huge demand for a sequel). Still, as you said, people loved the film because they loved Alita. She is a shining example of what female empowerment is supposed to be for so many reasons.
@@Edgebotv4 Interestingly enough, the live action film was about twice as long as the manga/anime chapters it was based on. I don't think the issue was that it was crammed, I think that it was only a small part of a larger story that still had more building to do. Hopefully a sequel will be made.
and for the price of character assassination, the sequel trilogy shall suffer a fate worse than death: being forgotten.
No no, that's how it should be.
Let Legends be canon again. It's infinitely better than the new canon, anyway.
The fact that it hasn’t attracted kids is the biggest failure of them all. I would never believe you if you told me that Star Wars toys didn’t sell and kids weren’t obsessed with Star Wars just 5 years ago. It’s crazy. Say what you want about the prequels but they attracted a whole new generation of fans and a boatload of awesome merch
@@ericshawn3169
And do not write down to kids. Instead write stuff that is over their head with stuff they can understand.
I'm so glad people like you are here to voice everything that has gone missing from fantastic story telling. I feel like eventually this awful trend will die down when studios realise why their new movies are failing, and true success requires time, effort, and respectful to the audience and it's story
Well put; you bastion of whisky-fueled wisdom.
What they did to Luke Skywalker makes me cry, He was the heart of Star Wars. never have I seen such a noble and brave hero become so diluted due to agenda and politics.
If you're white, they want to do it you in the real world too.
At least we know that Mark hated every moment of his new character throughout the sequels, so at least we have the IRL Skywalker staying true to his character.
@@svenskanal They pretty much have
I have gradually become overwhelmed with awe at the wisdom and logical thinking you display in this movie critic assays Drinker.
High praise coming from me who at age 17yr covenanted to never drink any alcoholic drink again (and kept eversince)!
"'The Last Jedi' is 'The Dark Knight' of the 'Star Wars' saga"
So The Dark Knight sucked so hard it ruined the Batman franchise? And here I thought it was a great movie...
That statement he may has got to be one of the most arrogant two-faced statement I’ve ever heard.
Last Jedi doesn’t come anywhere near the iconic level of TDK.
Incredible Jake two face see what you did there
Jack NicholTorrance
Lol!! Honestly, I didn’t think of it until after I wrote it. It rang right.
@@IncredibleFulk1 That moment when you unlock the other 90% of your brain for a second but it's wasted on a TH-cam comment
And I thought my jokes were bad...
This video has precisely hit the nail on the head with what’s wrong with movies today. And watching this has brought a smile to my face.
Luke Skywalker is my favourite character of all time, I totally related to him as a kid. And the last Jedi absolutely broke my heart.
Still haven’t bothered to see rise of skywalker.
Cheers to you drinker 🍻🥃🍾
It’s like I wrote your comment. Exactly the same thoughts/feelings.
I’ve even downloaded a pirate copy of TRoS and still haven’t bothered.
I remember wishing to walk away from TFA, but two of my friends were unfortunatly liking It.
I'm proud to say I haven't seen Rise of Skywalker. I won't give them two plus hours of my attention and soul.
I haven't seen it either. I totally agree with you.
@@AA-jd2iz Likewise. I did, however, watch both the Drinker's and Mauler's review videos on it. I was far more entertained by them than I have been by Disney for well over a decade...
This channel has taught me more about storytelling than all four years of college.
"'Terminator: Dark Fate' Sadly Shows Diversity Only Matters For Movie Audiences Already Want To See"
...this man presumably gets paid to "write" this literal nonsense?
James Gratz ”He brings up nothing people don’t already agree with”. So you do agree this is the real fan view then. Great!
And since when does fandoms need ”hot takes” or shilling from people that don’t like the franchise to begin with?
I have no frickin idea what's this shit all about. I am gonna play games=
Is anyone else sick to death of returning characters always being "deadbeat dads"? Do they not know how tired a cliche that is
Hey, if there weren't "DeadBeat Dads", there be no Dads at all......apparently
There are only two types of dads- dead beat ones, or cartoonishly evil drunken pedo pervs.
Right?
I’m reading the Black Fleet Trilogy at the moment. And in there Han is a stay at home Dad having the time of his life watching his kids grow up, while Leia is miserable in her political career. Now compare that with TFA.
Because only dead beat dads ever leave.
I mean, it DID make sense with Vergil. What with his issues, and how he didn't even know he HAD a kid - the game makes it pretty clear he's stunned when he finds out that ages-old one night stand actually resulted in something. Chopping off your son's arm is probably never gonna qualify you for father of the year, though.
Buuut, I'm guessing DMC5 was probably not one of the recent forms of media on your mind. :)
Luke never gave up on darth Vader to turn him back to the light side but he gives up on his nephew the moment he finds the slightest bit of darkness in him... (thanks Disney)
I started watching Drinker's videos because I wanted to hear funny commentary on movies and shows that I think are trash. But the last two dozen or so videos have been something altogether different. Drinker should be teaching a master class to writers on character development and story arc. These are very well crafted "essays" on what works (and what doesn't) in screenplays. Well done sir.
In short: when you replace artistic talent and vision with ideological agenda pushing and disrespect, if not outright loathing of both the source material and the audience, the result is inevitably shite and failure.
The sad part is that you can’t see just how thoroughly you have allowed your obsessions to rot your judgement.
@@kelman727 Go drink some Soy milk 🙄
@@kelman727 What do you mean by that?
Honestly, it's noteven ideology or whatever, it's pure desire to grab as much cash as possible without spending too much time on it.
@@kelman727 Elaborate please
Thank you for this. You articulate so much better than I could the problem with their treatment of Luke in TLJ. I was in mourning after I saw that movie, I literally wept at the death of my childhood hero. Not just because he was gone, but because of the WAY he died. It was such a disappointment. Thank you for your insight.
Star Wars ended at Episode VI.
Been sayin' that since...well, Episode VI
Yes it did. I mean I gave The Force Awakens a chance, I wanted to see what Luke got up to after he took down the Empire in 6 but then...why? What could have happened to him in the 40 years since to make him just give up like that? Got now explanations, no reasons, no nothing and I would have liked to know but then they force Rey down your throat. I know people change as they get older and sometimes lose their way but for me I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO LUKE and how he got to be that lost, not be force fed whamen Mary Sue Rey. I was born in 1983 and never got to see the Star Wars Trilogy in a theater until they released the 20th anniversary movies in 1997, it kinda felt weird. I had seen them before then, I was young but I remember wondering what happened to the other version of Darth Vader when they digitally replaced him with Christensen in the theater.
@Michael Bishop Star Wars original sin. It was never the same after that.
Facts
And Star Wars started with Episode IV.
They really need to just admit failure and make Episodes 7 to 9 again with Mark Hamill as the main character.
I think we are facing a recasting to a period of time closer to A New Hope. In other words Star Wars is dead. It really died when Carrie Fisher passed away and they didn't adjust TLJ script to accommodate it (also would have been a golden opportunity to do reshoots to actually produce a decent movie - Johnson doesn't want to change it, then fine we will get a director to fix it).
It's over 😒I just call the new ones Snowflake Wars💩🔥 The Force Is Toxic Feminist 🧟♂️☣️
This video should be mandatory to watch for everyone working in Hollywood.
Literally.
Yes.
...Why the fluff does your comment only has 8 Likes?!
It needs more
Good character arcs and development have always been the hallmark for good movies and TV shows over the years. Characters that are either relatable (struggling with various problems) or great role models (enduring & overcoming difficulties & challenges), and when they're NOT, then the overall story fails as a whole. Movies and TV shows that get too preachy on various political, environmental or social issues ALWAYS get that polarizing treatment.
Damn thise was so perfectly articulated. I have hated the recent Star Wards movies. They suck and now I have heard it laid out so well.
We should of stuck with Legends. Been telling myself that since the force awakens was released.
I can't imagine I'll ever forgive how they massacred my boy Luke
"I want you to use all your powers, and all the skills. I don't want his mother to see him this way."
I know. Just remember the original trilogy. When you get angry, play back in your head the good moments. Release the hate. Don't focus on the negative.
@@danmanx2 aye negative in excess blinds us and in the end, destroys us. As it has done to these very people "dominating" (suiciding) the film industry and comics.
Funny thing, I don't like what they did to Luke, but I can't bring myself to hate it. Mostly because, if I'm to be honest... I saw it coming. I just thought "what is the easiest thing they would do with that character" and making him jaded and cynical just seemed most likely. And honestly, I'm pretty sure it's because that's a trend Hollywood does now.
It is funny, in trying to be bold, they just changed a character from one archetype that no one does anymore to another, less interesting and more common archetype that SEVERAL people are doing. So much for bold new take.
Agreed
South Park’s Canadians warned us about Scott years ago. “He’s a Dick.” - actual quote about Scott.
I know this is a couple years old, but you are so spot on. I love your channel and listening to your videos. I find you insightful and entertaining. Love it!
HBO: Take note: TCD just explained indirectly why EVERYONE hated the way Game of Thrones ended.
d&d should take note
Вадим Горобец I don't think Dumb and Dumber understand the importance of consistency and character development.
@@EntrEsprit no Mr. powers they should DIE
I feel like amongst lot of other mistakes, Ruin Johnson committed two crucial mistakes when it came to handling Luke. One is that, like our dear ethanol abusing but eloquent host explained, is that he does not respect Luke in the script, but he ABSOLUTELY expects to use the audience's nostalgia for him to pour his ideas onto the audience, and those ideas are explained with Luke and Yoda as mouthpieces : What you liked was stupid, previous Star Wars were stupid and mostly meaningless, and previous Jedi were bad, only Rey and reluctantly maybe Yoda were good.
The other mistake is that Luke is not the most powerful character in his saga : The EMPEROR is. Luke is certainly very capable by the end and can match his own personal villain, Vader, but it is not Luke's capability that resolves the plot. Luke IS the New Hope and his strength is hope. His belief that his friends will prevail, but most of all his faith that there is something in his father that is good, and that he can make thar something come out even when others tell him he can't. Luke and Vader don't even go all out in that fight until Vader touches a nerve, and even then Luke pulls back, proving that he won't surrender to momentary anger, but continue to believe in both what he learned and his father's remnants of good. Luke believes, hopes against all signs. And you CAN break a character like that and make it touching and believable and squeeze tears or frustration from the audience. You can write a solemn, fatalistic or cautionary tale about the fall or failure of someone so good and hopeful, and make it a good read/watch. But Ruin Johnson doesn't do that. He doesn't take Luke and the audience through the process of exploring the writer's belief in nihilism by slow and believable breaking of the hopeful hero that is Luke. No...
... He does it offscreen.
JJ did the same to Han, all of the character growth through the OT, going from smuggling nerf herder to war hero. Undone with a few throwaway lines. I get why Han died, Harrison Ford hated the character and wanted him dead in RotJ, and I’m even fine with how it was done. But his character overall was wasted, ruined, and like pretty much every other character only served to make Rey look better in some way.
Or Star Wars was always about selling toys, the characters in the original weren't well written either, and you're way too worked up about it.
@@nimrodery or both
0:18 the face of the guy watching you shower from the apartment across the pool - lol
Can’t wait until *Wonder Wonder 1984* where she tosses her lasso over her shoulder giving up on mankind and spends her days shopping at malls.