One of the best performances I’ve heard from ATC. Not a bunch of extraneous questions. Didn’t give the pilot a zillion options to think about. Aware of wind on light airplane performance. Good job.
The clarity that the Jetblue fella spoke with was a relief compared to the mumbling by a few of the other pilots All in all a good outcome here. I love seeing things go wrong but everything turning out okay
@@annsheridan12 not likely speaking as a pilot - you always try to make runway, even in an emergency. They closed the runway anyway, and in addition closed a taxiway as a result of this. in an emergency he safely put it on the ground which is all that matters, but I would guess he was confused
@@realjohnmonarch Yeah, probably a bit. So-so visibility + no power + probable some ice on the windows + hypothermic + unnerved - and probably inadvertently lined up on Alpha + cannot GA - and probably not even maneuver much = take whatever long, flat area you can get. Glad it worked out and he got free drinks. Then again, he probably bought a round for the responders, once he and his wallet warmed back up.
Honestly, no I don't. It looks like his decision to climb through icing caused the engine failure which he handled very well. But, as the saying goes, "Superior pilots use their superior judgement to avoid displaying their superior flying skills."
I always love the tonal shift in these videos as soon as they realize something is wrong. Even with the first "Say again" in part 1 you could almost HEAR the ears of the controller perk up. And from the confirmation of the pilot onwards ATC was straight business, no-nonsense, calm, accomodating. Where otherwise you might have the odd controller out who snaps at you for not being quick enough on the readback, suddenly it's all "field is all yours buddy. do what you need to get down safely, okay?" Professionalism, people. Keeps you alive!
Would the plane with the dead engine have electric heaters powered by the engine, or does the engine's heat get funneled into the cabin (kind of like a car)?
Even if electric most likely powered only when the engine generator is on so an engine out most likely means no heat either way (I would assume that the heaters are using an engine coolant heat exchanger in any case).
Late reply, but in the Cessna 172 (the emergency aircraft) the cabin heat is derived from heat coming off the exhaust cowling of the engine. Dead engine would mean no heat, given there is no electrical heating. It's also worth noting if there was electrical heating it would not be used in this circumstance since the primary electrical power comes from an engine driven alternator (with an additional 24 volt battery for ~30m of backup). An electric heater would overwhelm the 24v battery with no alternator available.
In my opinion the 172 pilot did a wonderful job of keeping calm AND his decision to land on the taxiway was very clear thinking...so that the runway would not be closed because of his disabled aircraft.
I’m not sure it was that intentional or he would have stopped well clear (before and after) the other runway, which caused some issues. Either way it ultimately doesn’t matter, everyone is safe (even the plane!)
I would be like: 777 declaring an emergency. Number 1 engine burning. (Later on) landing…. ATC, I have a request. ATC: go ahead. Me: can I get some cheesecake?
All's well that ends well... That being said taking a C172 into icing conditions is not my first choice. The engine failure description sounded like carb Ice. Was this pilot inadvertent IMC? My impression was that he was not IFR qualified. A great example why you should always have extra fuel because delays may happen for reasons unanticipated.... I have had to divert due to flight schools crashing various aircraft on the active where I am based. Thank You VASAviation for you excellent work. My impressions of your content is favorable and educational. In my opinion it saves lives, by making these situations easily viewable to pilots of all skill levels. Well done.
What gives you the impression that he wasn't instrument rated? He'd be dead if he wasn't. He would have been freaking out if he was IMC and not rated. It sounds more like inadvertent icing instead
Yep - though a heading of 000 and 360 would both refer to due north, by convention, 360 is used in referring to it. So headings go from 001-360 instead of 000-359.
Not necessarily. When they say "minimum fuel", that means they still have enough to get to the alternate airport (Ithaca, apparently) and land there with some reserve for holding and taxiing. That's why they started off in that direction. When the runway was declared open again at Syracuse, they turned back.
@@Kromaatikse: Reserve is 30 mins in daylight, 45 mins at night. Taking it to that point is frighteningly close when you consider that (in this case) Ithaca could develop an emergency of their own just prior to your arrival. Just because you don't have to divert early, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
@@smartysmarty1714 Not for IFR. The reserve is enough to get to original destination plus enough to get to alternate plus 45 minutes. They have quite a bit of extra. The reserve you mentioned is for part 91 VFR ops. The airlines likely have even more safety reserve than the part 91 IFR ops I mentioned above.
@@smartysmarty1714 Hey no worries. Things can get pretty complicated especially in the 121 world where each airline has their own ops spec. Those are usually more stringent than regular 121 regulations
2:15 That's wrong readback right there. Always an excample of how NOT to readback altitudes -> NO "TO". "descend to 5000" could easily be "descend 25000". Why do commercial pilots do that...?
@@ferrari2k I was more thinking a scenario where you're giving a passing altitude and your cleared altitude. Like "Albuquerque center, American 1459, 5000 climbing 25000" but I suppose you could say "5000 climb 25000" but that actually sounds less clear than "climbing".
Wade Saxton sounds like a regional lifer who picked up aviation later in life and is nearing retirement. Still no excuse for poor radio calls but you hear it somewhat frequently in the air.
This appears to have been a ferry flight of a new airplane to the customer. It was built in november of 2016 and deregistered in december of 2016 when it was delivered to the country of Russia. Anyone find an NTSB report? It should have been required by the FAR for loss of an engine inflight.
They restricted the airspace around the airport and stopped all arrivals and departures. This way the emergency aircraft can maneuver without worrying about colliding with another airplane. The emergency vehicles (CFR) have pre-determined staging position they will go to to wait for the landing. Emergency aircraft don't always land where they expect to, runways, taxiways, fields, sometimes in the neighborhoods just short of the airport. Once on the ground, the emergency vehicles will race over to the scene to determine safety and effect rescue/fire suppression if needed. CFR will tell the tower when it is safe to resume operations on what parts of the field. An ops vehicle will then do a visual inspection of runways being returned to service to make sure no debris from the emergency aircraft or equipment from the responding trucks (stuff can fall off when your speeding to an accident) is blocking the runway. Ops trucks will tell the tower it is safe to return those areas release by CFR to service and arrivals and departures will resume.
Specifically, he climbed through an area of known ice just prior to his engine quitting. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume the correlation was in fact causation.
xheralt With the engine "running rough" when he tried to restart it, I would infer some blockage of the air intakes. If he has a carburated engine rather than a fuel-injected one, then an iced-up carburettor would be most likely. Of course that's why most such engines have heated carburettors.
It was a mistake. He didn't have engine power so he lined up with the first "runway" he saw. The taxiway is a good size so it could easily be mistaken for a runway. He probably didn't realize he made a mistake until it was too late to switch.
![[REAL ATC] Cessna C172 makes EMERGENCY LANDING ON ROADWAY!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9yxZQtv8-Hg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] Cessna C172 makes EMERGENCY LANDING ON ROADWAY!](/img/tr.png)
![[REAL ATC] Piper PA32 DITCHES after takeoff at Orlando-Executive ORL!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/966F3LstN8w/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] United B777 BIRD STRIKE + GRASS FIRE at Denver! | Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xd0qjF2zYEM/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly it doesn’t matter how good you make that hot chocolate or coffee, it will be the best he’s ever had.
You know your cold when you perform a Harrison Ford landing.
One of the best performances I’ve heard from ATC. Not a bunch of extraneous questions. Didn’t give the pilot a zillion options to think about. Aware of wind on light airplane performance. Good job.
I thought the Cessna pilot was incredible as well. If I were ever in that situation I'd like to hope I'd be 1/10 as calm as he sounded.
Dude would have been suffering hyperthermia, so his request was valid. No engine equals no heat at 11k feet
hypothermia, but yeah, true.
@@dufonrafal thank you maye
The clarity that the Jetblue fella spoke with was a relief compared to the mumbling by a few of the other pilots
All in all a good outcome here. I love seeing things go wrong but everything turning out okay
I hope he got his hot chocolate or coffee!
That poor guy had to be seriously cold to miss landing on the runway... You could tell he really wanted those blankets and hot liquids.
Or perhaps he did not want to block the runway.
@@annsheridan12 not likely speaking as a pilot - you always try to make runway, even in an emergency. They closed the runway anyway, and in addition closed a taxiway as a result of this. in an emergency he safely put it on the ground which is all that matters, but I would guess he was confused
@@realjohnmonarch Yeah, probably a bit. So-so visibility + no power + probable some ice on the windows + hypothermic + unnerved - and probably inadvertently lined up on Alpha + cannot GA - and probably not even maneuver much = take whatever long, flat area you can get. Glad it worked out and he got free drinks. Then again, he probably bought a round for the responders, once he and his wallet warmed back up.
SouthWest sounds like Eeyore...he has to be the saddest damn pilot I ever heard..
🤣
I can't unhear it now!
Good job to the pilot..... Especially by strictly following the rule of NEVER sounding bad on the radio! 😁
Great channel, thanks for the hard work. I have no issue with the multi-part vids. Thanks again
Thanks for the comment, Iron Maiden's singer :)
5951 radio op sounds profusely sad
Like Eeyore....that’s how I saw him too.
Winnie the Pooh needs to speak up!
SKW5951 sounds like Winnie the Pooh
Francisco Gutierrez oh bother!
He sounds like Winnie the Pooh that just got a diabetes diagnosis and has had to give up the honey
I thought that he sounded like Eeyore lol.
+400 likes in Part 1 video and almost 54K subscribers!
*Here's the outcome of this event. I only have great words for this pilot... do you?*
Zero injuries... Even gets to re-use the airplane.
Next time take a space blanket and a thermos full of hot chocolate.
And some gloves.
Honestly, no I don't.
It looks like his decision to climb through icing caused the engine failure which he handled very well. But, as the saying goes, "Superior pilots use their superior judgement to avoid displaying their superior flying skills."
VASAviation - did that poor pilot ever get his hot chocolate and blanket?
Did they have to temporarily close a runway, cos the emergency vehicles had to cross 10- 28 to reach the Skyhawk?
Enjoy the videos, thank you. Don't change a thing (unless you want to do so).
Lotsa pressure on ATC.
and we wouldn't have it any other way.
I always love the tonal shift in these videos as soon as they realize something is wrong.
Even with the first "Say again" in part 1 you could almost HEAR the ears of the controller perk up. And from the confirmation of the pilot onwards ATC was straight business, no-nonsense, calm, accomodating. Where otherwise you might have the odd controller out who snaps at you for not being quick enough on the readback, suddenly it's all "field is all yours buddy. do what you need to get down safely, okay?"
Professionalism, people. Keeps you alive!
Would the plane with the dead engine have electric heaters powered by the engine, or does the engine's heat get funneled into the cabin (kind of like a car)?
Even if electric most likely powered only when the engine generator is on so an engine out most likely means no heat either way (I would assume that the heaters are using an engine coolant heat exchanger in any case).
Late reply, but in the Cessna 172 (the emergency aircraft) the cabin heat is derived from heat coming off the exhaust cowling of the engine. Dead engine would mean no heat, given there is no electrical heating. It's also worth noting if there was electrical heating it would not be used in this circumstance since the primary electrical power comes from an engine driven alternator (with an additional 24 volt battery for ~30m of backup). An electric heater would overwhelm the 24v battery with no alternator available.
In my opinion the 172 pilot did a wonderful job of keeping calm AND his decision to land on the taxiway was very clear thinking...so that the runway would not be closed because of his disabled aircraft.
I’m not sure it was that intentional or he would have stopped well clear (before and after) the other runway, which caused some issues. Either way it ultimately doesn’t matter, everyone is safe (even the plane!)
poor syracuse controllers, i'd say that they're definitely not used to that much traffic at the same time
wish I could talk that fast.
Wish I could listen that fast!
Rather watching a long one-parter than two shorter ones. not complaining bout it, just my personal preference.
I would be like: 777 declaring an emergency. Number 1 engine burning. (Later on) landing…. ATC, I have a request.
ATC: go ahead.
Me: can I get some cheesecake?
All's well that ends well...
That being said taking a C172 into icing conditions is not my first choice. The engine failure description sounded like carb Ice. Was this pilot inadvertent IMC? My impression was that he was not IFR qualified.
A great example why you should always have extra fuel because delays may happen for reasons unanticipated....
I have had to divert due to flight schools crashing various aircraft on the active where I am based.
Thank You VASAviation for you excellent work. My impressions of your content is favorable and educational. In my opinion it saves lives, by making these situations easily viewable to pilots of all skill levels. Well done.
Engine is an IO version of the lycoming. It's fuel injected - no carb :)
What gives you the impression that he wasn't instrument rated? He'd be dead if he wasn't. He would have been freaking out if he was IMC and not rated. It sounds more like inadvertent icing instead
Zach agree, he was flying on a IFR plan. center wouldn’t be clearing him through IMC on VFR flight following.
If they called an ambulance it's possible he was impaired by cold. I imagine he got the plane down and collapsed. Any regs on cold weather gear?
@@icollectstories5702 Without an engine for heat, things would get cold very quickly.
Carb heat?
360 is due north? (Versus tripple zero). Just trying to understand the convention. Thanks.
Yep - though a heading of 000 and 360 would both refer to due north, by convention, 360 is used in referring to it. So headings go from 001-360 instead of 000-359.
@@danc.5859 Thanks. I know just enough to be dangerous.
000 and 360 are the same headding, due north. 180 is south, 90 is east, and 270 is west
Can we get that mouse off the radio?
TheRJs are cutting it frighteningly close when it comes to fuel reserves.
Always.
Not necessarily. When they say "minimum fuel", that means they still have enough to get to the alternate airport (Ithaca, apparently) and land there with some reserve for holding and taxiing. That's why they started off in that direction. When the runway was declared open again at Syracuse, they turned back.
@@Kromaatikse: Reserve is 30 mins in daylight, 45 mins at night. Taking it to that point is frighteningly close when you consider that (in this case) Ithaca could develop an emergency of their own just prior to your arrival. Just because you don't have to divert early, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
@@smartysmarty1714 Not for IFR. The reserve is enough to get to original destination plus enough to get to alternate plus 45 minutes. They have quite a bit of extra. The reserve you mentioned is for part 91 VFR ops. The airlines likely have even more safety reserve than the part 91 IFR ops I mentioned above.
@@smartysmarty1714 Hey no worries. Things can get pretty complicated especially in the 121 world where each airline has their own ops spec. Those are usually more stringent than regular 121 regulations
2:15 That's wrong readback right there.
Always an excample of how NOT to readback altitudes -> NO "TO".
"descend to 5000" could easily be "descend 25000".
Why do commercial pilots do that...?
Well frankly "for" language isn't very good either as it could be confused with 4. It's better in my opinion to say "climbing/descending [altitude].
@@cameronhoward99 No, that is not correct phraseology either.
It would be "Climb/Descend altitude 5000" or "Climb/Descend flightlevel 070"
Pilots often develop communication habits depending on accent and word use where they were trained and the quality of their training.
@@chrism.3681 And because of that there is standard phraseology so that this habits can be eliminated.
@@ferrari2k I was more thinking a scenario where you're giving a passing altitude and your cleared altitude. Like "Albuquerque center, American 1459, 5000 climbing 25000" but I suppose you could say "5000 climb 25000" but that actually sounds less clear than "climbing".
Did he get his Cocoa?
I sure hope so :) Sugar-rich and warm drinks are the best cure for hypothermia (aside from actually warming the person up ofcourse...)
That Skywest pilot... 🤷🏻♂️ WTF, speak up & enunciate. I'd rather walk across a mile of Lego pieces than listen to him.
Jeez, that's kinda harsh isn't it? Not that I'm disagreeing, of course.
21specter nope, not a bit harsh
Wade Saxton sounds like a regional lifer who picked up aviation later in life and is nearing retirement. Still no excuse for poor radio calls but you hear it somewhat frequently in the air.
robo931 🤣....wait. 🤔, just for clarification, he sounds like the lifer or I sound like the lifer?? 😬
I can understand him just fine. Such elitist pricks in aviation sometimes. You gotta sound a certain way apparently.
This appears to have been a ferry flight of a new airplane to the customer. It was built in november of 2016 and deregistered in december of 2016 when it was delivered to the country of Russia. Anyone find an NTSB report? It should have been required by the FAR for loss of an engine inflight.
Not a required report under NTSB 830.
Why shut the airport when he is on the taxiway?
They restricted the airspace around the airport and stopped all arrivals and departures. This way the emergency aircraft can maneuver without worrying about colliding with another airplane. The emergency vehicles (CFR) have pre-determined staging position they will go to to wait for the landing. Emergency aircraft don't always land where they expect to, runways, taxiways, fields, sometimes in the neighborhoods just short of the airport. Once on the ground, the emergency vehicles will race over to the scene to determine safety and effect rescue/fire suppression if needed. CFR will tell the tower when it is safe to resume operations on what parts of the field. An ops vehicle will then do a visual inspection of runways being returned to service to make sure no debris from the emergency aircraft or equipment from the responding trucks (stuff can fall off when your speeding to an accident) is blocking the runway. Ops trucks will tell the tower it is safe to return those areas release by CFR to service and arrivals and departures will resume.
How about posting the causes?
I would if I knew. Maybe the ice reported in Part 1 video? Make your own guess :)
Specifically, he climbed through an area of known ice just prior to his engine quitting. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume the correlation was in fact causation.
xheralt With the engine "running rough" when he tried to restart it, I would infer some blockage of the air intakes. If he has a carburated engine rather than a fuel-injected one, then an iced-up carburettor would be most likely. Of course that's why most such engines have heated carburettors.
Why did he land on taxi way?
It was a mistake. He didn't have engine power so he lined up with the first "runway" he saw. The taxiway is a good size so it could easily be mistaken for a runway. He probably didn't realize he made a mistake until it was too late to switch.
Without engine power his glass was fogged most likely, he sounded a bit cold up there on the base turn for final.
Joshua Landry I also heard approach clear him for 28 Right in part 1.
@@ShuRugal Yeah, he was cleared for a runway that doesn't exist. I heard that too. The pilot sounded calmer than ATC.
@@ShuRugal
He was cleared for runway 28. He was just a little off.
One little plane fucked a lot of peoples days.
5951 divert to Ithica. Because you're annoying me.
Skywest Pilot was busy teabagging the copilot.... speak up for christs sake
Well that was a bit of a shit show of sloppy coms
How about a binkie too
Are you offering yours?