As another longtime pumpkin fan and collector of anything that can get me closer to that tone, I have a trick you can do with the Phase 100 to make it sound even more pumpkin like. Put the phaser thru the return/send of your marshall. It let's the phase float right on top of the fuzz. You might already be doing that but just in case you haven't tried that it's worth a shot. Gives the tone a very mellon collie feel
the live sound of pumpkins with the orange amps was insane in that era. too bad I cant find specs or info about the pedals (a few) used live or marshall jmp1 settings.
i don’t understand how you can get so much distortion and still actually be able to tell what notes you’re hitting. that’s always been my problem with recording heavy songs and adding a second or third guitar on makes it even more muddy
Hands down the BEST video I’ve seen for this subject AND best video I’ve seen by an account under 500 subs. If you keep up content like this I would not be surprised if you became a regular stop for gear info for myself
This has a lot of comments, so I’m sure this is already been said. If you have the Siamese dream tablature book in the forward Billy breaks down his entire rig and what pedals he uses and what AMP uses and settings. It is actually from a guitar world magazine interview he did shortly after Siamese dream came out. A lot of people were fascinated by the wall of fuzz. I have been chasing that sound since 1995. You have done very well. There used to be a girl on here name fuzz box girl. She had a couple of old big muffs with the op amp mod and her tone was damn close. Unfortunately she deleted her channel and took down all her videos. I have no idea why.
Absolutely. That is where I learned the settings for my amp back in the mid 90's. The amp in this video is the modern 20 watt reissue of that amp mentioned in the tab book/article (2203 JCM 800 w/KT88's). That article has a few good tidbits but doesn't dive super deep. It handles the rhythm sound decently but only gives a little info on the leads. I made a second video after this one that dissects the lead guitar sound beyond what is in the tab book or interviews th-cam.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching!
Interesting, when I heard Siamese Dream for the first time I assumed it was a crazy number of layered guitars, this is the closest I've heard to the Smashing Pumpkins sound for sure,well done!
This is gold content, man! That soma intro at 04:43 was just out of the park accurate! Beautiful work of yours in figuring out that pumpkins sound so well and sharing it with us here on youtube. I live in Brazil and must say that these pedals that you are using they're just the deadly expensive around here, but still you offer the guidelines for us to get that there, and that makes this whole video so valuable for me and most guitar players interested in learning how to understand how unique guitar tones are created.
I discovered SP in 1996 and it instantly became one of my most loved bands, i still love them, though i dont listen as much as i used to. Great video and thanks!
been curious about that Siamese Dream era tone for years. I knew bits and pieces of it, such as the JCM 800 head with KT88's, master cranked with the preamp controlling the gain structure, Distortion+ into an op amp Muff, and so on. I got the Lace Sensors and the op amp muff, but couldn't quite wrap my head around the rest of the equation. I decided to build a pedalboard recently and learned about IRs. I've been using older modelers for years, as I just mess around in my room by myself, and had no idea how far the tech had come... IRs have opened a whole new world for me. knowing that it's possible to get there with gear I can actually afford (or save up for over the years) is a very happy surprise. I presumed it would be out of reach or infeasible, given all the expensive gear, rack stuff, super involved production techniques, and so on. this has pretty much all the missing pieces of the puzzle -- or at least, all the major ones I couldn't figure out! I'll have to take a stab at modeling some of the aspects with modern software / tools in conjunction with my pedals while I save up for other bits and pieces. simply incredible.I'm really excited to keep exploring, and that's a godsend as this pandemic drags on and I keep wrestling with other things that bring me down. thank you so much for sharing this.
I'm one of the people who hit the dislike button. I don't like people who wear hats inside. It's rude and just straight up inappropriate. There are probably kids who are gonna watch this video and they are gonna see this guy wearing a tuque inside like it's the end of the world or something. It's such a terrible example to set. For shame to this man and anyone else who liked this video, including yourself, buck-o!
Eddie Clark most definitely liked it. I'm not familiar at all with pedals and amp knowledge, so watching you explain what they do was great. Would love to see one of machine ii if you ever decide to :) This one kicked ass btw :D
Amazing video dude, you've really nailed the tones which is a real achievement since you've managed to translate the sound from a studio recording sound into a pedalboard. I've just checked out the eventide pedal and safe to say I might have to wait until I think of getting one since Ive already bought two new pedals this month 🤪
amazing work! you got super close to the tone. If you do a match eq of the stems with izotope ozone though, you can get that tone 100% by replicating the whole signal chain. i did it and it is sooo fun to play.
Hey Eddie you think you would tackle some Mellon collie covers and would you do F*** You and ode to no one ? The solo in that track sounds so sporadic and awesome like corgan did it in a take on the whim. Would love to hear you play it your corgan solo tributes are the best.
If I remember right Billy has said he was in the room with his amp cranked all the way so he had to play that solo tight to keep it from exploding w feedback
How did you determine amp settings? I just picked up a Marshall 4x12 JCM800 lead 1960a cab with original vented white label G12T-75’s and as soon as I plugged in lace sensor strat into my JMP 2204 with the master cranked and low gain through my 1978 op amp big muff, that was IT. So awesome. It’s really important to emphasize the early white label G12T-75’s. Even the later UK models were vastly different, not to mention the Chinese 75’s. Surprisingly, Creambacks sounded way closer to the vintage white labels than actual newer G12T-75’s. Finally, as difficult as it is to justify, the sound of a 4x12 is crucial. Even close miking a single singer. The cab just resonates differently.
Billy shows his JCM 800 setting a few times in interviews. I think the first place he mentions it is in the Siamese Dream tab book. I use the original vented white G12T-75s as well as a G12-65 (the predecessor to the 75) loaded 4x12. Vintage speakers are almost always better. If your JMP has EL34’s, try out KT88s. Tubes don’t really sound too different but the added headroom with the master on 10 makes a difference. Thanks for watching!
Make sure the treble is at 0 or 1. I never run more than that. Also to consider, the JMP’s are often a little brighter than the JCM versions. I’ve had multiple of both and I usually end up with a bright cap delete in the JMP amps.
I’ve seen someone use a half-cocked wah before the overdrive and muff and nailed the lead tone. Add in a phaser with the rate all the way down and depth all the way up and you’ll get the Cherub Rock lead sound.
@@EddieClark nice, i just checked that out, yeah I think yours is dead on for Cherub Rock. You even managed to get that broken speaker sort of sound you hear in the last second or two of the song, always loved that.
Im sure you figured this out by now, but the Jordan Boss Tone is the most likely culprit for the lead "secret" fuzz that you're substituting the Tumnus for. :)
Probably using some oddball, killer octave fuzz from the 60s/70s, that was sitting around that multimillion dollar studio of Billy's. I have a v4, and v5 opamp Muff and there is an "octaveness" in the muff naturally, so you really need to hunt down a v4 v5 or v6 to go along with that magical , and mysterious octave pedal he REALLY used. I honestly dont think the studioboard had as much to do with it.
😁 the octave effect is a Microsynth The Lead Guitar Sounds of Siamese Dream (The Smashing Pumpkins) th-cam.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/w-d-xo.html Here it is in use th-cam.com/video/QY0a63439bw/w-d-xo.html
How different would it sound if I were using a stock SC20C without any mods? Great vid btw, absolutely the closest and most informative video I've seen on this topic!
Great sound!! Love the intro! Just wondering if you have played around much bypassing the amp completely and trying to achieve the same using amp sims? Softube do a range of Marshall’s including a 2203 with KT88’s. Be interesting to hear what you get.
Eddie Clark Shout-out, this is one of the most useful videos I've seen on this type of subject. The gear is out of my price range but I appreciate how you don't just talk shop but show us rubes out there how all this gear achieves that sound. I'm looking to buy a Fender. I've always played nylon classical guitars and know zip about electric guitars. Any advice on what strats to stay away from?
I really enjoyed this video and would love to know how you went about making the custom SC20. I’ve been wanting to do the same and the way you did it looks great!
Thanks! Glad you liked it! My local amp tech made the tube change for me. The 12" enclosure is the Mojotone 18 watt combo with a 7.5" back panel to accommodate the extra amp chassis depth.
itd be sweet if you showed how to get these tones in amplitube exclusively. i can get relatively close using my marshall and big muff, but i am just getting into amps and pedals, and unfortunately cant go buy the microsynth and harmonizer... been chasing the siamese dream tone on amplitube forever now with no avail
This is so awesome! Would you ever make another video about the tone since you seemed to have perfected it even further in your newer videos. Also do you have Ig or something? I have so many questions 😄
@@EddieClark Yeah, I'm definitely eager to see more. I have a marshall dsl40c, the closest I've gotten is the op amp ri, phase 90, boss super overdrive, and lastly a TC electronic mimiq which makes a huge difference in my opinion. I'd love to find an octave pedal to nail the leads but I wanna try and get as close as possible and stacking an octave fuzz along with op amp bug muff i feel like is too much, idk tho. From my own research I though he just stacked the big muff with the dist.ii but when you mentioned stacking fuzz I was surprised. You seem to know a lot more than me tho 😄
@@MolotovLake there's a few pedal combos for the leads. The Mimiq is a great idea for getting the album layered sound. I do the same with a Strymon Deco
@@EddieClark If you make another video it would be much appreciated to go more in depth with the pedals and their settings and stuff. I'm not too familiar with the deco but remember seeing another video where they used it for a dub. Idk much about it, it looks like a very complicated pedal to use lol Also, I'm very curious how the microsynth fits into the rig, is that how he did octaves? I find the octaves to be the hardest part because they always sound like an organ and stacking with the fuzz always makes it sound a but strange if it isn't an actual octave fuzz pedal. Any ideas? I'd love to see that encorporated into the final rig rundown lol
Very cool. Check out the Pumpkin Pi by Stomp Under Foot, I bought one the other day instead of the op amp muff. I use it with a TS9 and the tone is identical
This guy Billy Corgans. KT88s in a Marshall? Check. Red Lace Sensors? Check. These are all those little details I remember as a teenager from the Siamese Dream tab book, lol. The only gear I went for in the 90s to be Pumpkins-y was 'a Big Muff' - which Big Muff, though? (This was before the internet was much help, remember!) I got the Sovtek Green Russian, and, well, at the time I thought it was great, but it's quite a different beast from the OpAmp. But even after getting the OpAmp reissue, I still go back to my ol' Greenie for nostalgia's sake (and it has surprisingly better clarity for individual notes!)
That sounds familiar to me! My first muff was a green sovtek as well. Couldn't figure out why it didn't sound right 🤣 That said; they're still my favourite muffs outside of Pumpkins tones. Thanks for watching 👍
Amazing walkthrough of the Siamese tones. I have a fender Strat with all single coil pickups. I love the neck pickup for warm clean tones, but am considering switching out the middle and bridge pickups for something else. What do you recommend for Siamese tones?
Just try a red lace sensor in the bridge and leave the middle for now. The Silver in the middle of the SD era Strat is just a copy of a far Strat pickup which is almost decked/level to the pickguard. Thanks for watching!
Hey man, great stuff here. Curious on your thoughts between the SC20 and the full 100watt JCM800. In your experience does the SC20 match the original in terms of that big muff into low gain channel sound?
I grew up with a 1983 JCM 800 2203. I loved it. The SC20 is 99% of the way there. Being able to run the master on 10 is a huge part of the sound with that amp. It needs to be wide open. Doing that with my 100 watt growing up is why I have tinnitus. I can do this with the 20 watt version and not go deaf. The 100 watt version may produce a little more low end but not in a way that anyone will notice in a mix or live situation. Hope that helps and thanks for watching! TLDR - yes the 20 watt version can match the sound.
This is amazing I’m starting guitar and got a strat because I love the rhythm tone of SP. Do you think a boss ds1 could also give a similar vibe to this? I definitely want to get a big muff but I also like heavier tones
Always great seeing more people start playing! A Boss DS1 is a different animal altogether but it's a great distortion sound. It may not sound like a muff BUT Pumpkins riffs will sound great if you use it anyways! Something to keep in mind is Billy himself never uses a muff live. 👍👍
@@EddieClark Thank you for the reply. Im looking for a specific sound, distorted with a dash of pumpkins. Im going to try out the Boss DS1 and then get a muff later on
Hi mate, love your work. Thanks for the info, especially for the dist2 - I've been looking for a mxr dist ii clone for a while and this looks perfect. Thanks again. I'm also interested in the eventide harmonisor effect for soma intro. Which harmonisor are you using and what settings? Thanks.
Thank you! I'm using an Eventide H9 so it will fit on a pedal board. The module in the H9 is called "Resonator". It allows you to set 4 steps of ascending (or descending) pitch filtered delay notes. In stereo mode, it does a left/right ping-pong that sounds amazing.
I just set up a custom MKII Pro electric kit, and I haven't played drums since 2006,3 months and I'm playing Gish and Siamese Dream, which I've never played before ,i have to start making videos,
FYI, another great way to tame/kill that noise on the cheap is to add a second (Cheap-o Amazon tuner behind all the gain pedals) I was chasing this tune a few years back w/ a Digitech Bad Monkey boosting an Op amp reissue into an old 80's Marshall LEAD 15 solid state mini stack (gain low/master high). Honestly sounded pretty awesome mic'd up! I no longer have that mini Marshall tho. : ( Damn... Now I'm all melancholy😐🤨🙃
Wonder if you’ve heard of the fender lt25/50/GT amp. Got a bunch a customizable tones and wondered if you knew of the fender-renamed tones I should use
To my ears the rhythm guitars sounded like it was miced up too far away? I don't know the album sounds a lot more direct without much room sound. But awesome either way sounds great. Edit: Nevermind you addressed it, seems my ears a bit better than I thought
Bruh... That tone at 4:22 is a revelation. How did you dial in the low end with muddying up the sound too much? Trying to perfect my Siamese Dream tone for a new project and always it's too tinny or too muddy.
Hey got a question for you... Im running a marshall DSL combo with fuzz pedal into my 2notes captor attenuator and into wall of sound cab sim plug in.... If I use amplitube instead do I just turn the virtual amp off since I am using my real amp but need the cabinet and mic simulation?
That’s exactly it. I turn off the speaker simulation in my UA OX and set it to DI mode. Then I disable the head in Amplitube 5 and just use the G12T-75 speaker sims with the C414 and Senn 421
Awesome I mucked around with it yesterday and got some thing close. I just got a bit of clipping having maxed the volume on my amp and used my gain as a volume control. Love your videos mate, massive pumpkins fan.
it's actually terrifying how close that sound is in the beginning, best tone replication i've heard on youtube!
Thank you very much!
Agree! I've been chasing that lead sound for a while and this is the best one. To me it's identical.
As another longtime pumpkin fan and collector of anything that can get me closer to that tone, I have a trick you can do with the Phase 100 to make it sound even more pumpkin like. Put the phaser thru the return/send of your marshall. It let's the phase float right on top of the fuzz. You might already be doing that but just in case you haven't tried that it's worth a shot. Gives the tone a very mellon collie feel
I'll give it a shot 👍
the live sound of pumpkins with the orange amps was insane in that era. too bad I cant find specs or info about the pedals (a few) used live or marshall jmp1 settings.
You have done a wonderful service by figuring out how to do this with modern materials. Thank you.
i don’t understand how you can get so much distortion and still actually be able to tell what notes you’re hitting. that’s always been my problem with recording heavy songs and adding a second or third guitar on makes it even more muddy
Try adding a clean guitar playing the full chords in the middle, and then two distorted guitars playing power chords on the left and right side
Hi-passing is your friend, also boosting the mids on the leads and dipping those just a hair on the rhythms
EQ dawg
You really nailed that BC style solo in the intro! As a fan and a guitarist, this was really fun!
Thank you!
jesus you fucking nailed that sound. It really shows the love and dedication you've poured into examining their material. Kudos man
Jimi Hendrix playing with My Bloody Valentine
Hands down the BEST video I’ve seen for this subject AND best video I’ve seen by an account under 500 subs. If you keep up content like this I would not be surprised if you became a regular stop for gear info for myself
Thank you very much! I appreciate that! I'll be doing a deep dive on the separate lead tones from the album very soon. I've learned a few things 👍
@@EddieClark YES PLEASE 😇 subbed!
Wow, congrats on the effort to replicate the sounds and all the right finger positions!
You say you're not Butch Vig or Billy Corgan, but the way you've reproduced the tone is amazing. These videos are so cool.
Glad you’re enjoying them! Thanks for watching!
This has a lot of comments, so I’m sure this is already been said. If you have the Siamese dream tablature book in the forward Billy breaks down his entire rig and what pedals he uses and what AMP uses and settings. It is actually from a guitar world magazine interview he did shortly after Siamese dream came out. A lot of people were fascinated by the wall of fuzz. I have been chasing that sound since 1995. You have done very well. There used to be a girl on here name fuzz box girl. She had a couple of old big muffs with the op amp mod and her tone was damn close. Unfortunately she deleted her channel and took down all her videos. I have no idea why.
Absolutely. That is where I learned the settings for my amp back in the mid 90's. The amp in this video is the modern 20 watt reissue of that amp mentioned in the tab book/article (2203 JCM 800 w/KT88's). That article has a few good tidbits but doesn't dive super deep. It handles the rhythm sound decently but only gives a little info on the leads.
I made a second video after this one that dissects the lead guitar sound beyond what is in the tab book or interviews
th-cam.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching!
I want to know more about this girl and her fuzz box...
what were the amp settings stated in the book?
Mayonnaise is my favorite, love the little " wooo" sound in it. Plus the chords are the best. Really loving the fuzz sound
Wow, that pitch shifter is essential for the lead sound. Incredible
The sound of my teenage years! this video is perfect
Interesting, when I heard Siamese Dream for the first time I assumed it was a crazy number of layered guitars, this is the closest I've heard to the Smashing Pumpkins sound for sure,well done!
well itnis a crazy number of layered guitars. Soma has 40
@@kristopherryanwatson lol what?
This is gold content, man! That soma intro at 04:43 was just out of the park accurate! Beautiful work of yours in figuring out that pumpkins sound so well and sharing it with us here on youtube. I live in Brazil and must say that these pedals that you are using they're just the deadly expensive around here, but still you offer the guidelines for us to get that there, and that makes this whole video so valuable for me and most guitar players interested in learning how to understand how unique guitar tones are created.
I discovered SP in 1996 and it instantly became one of my most loved bands, i still love them, though i dont listen as much as i used to. Great video and thanks!
That intro track is everything I want out of a guitar. 100 percent the sound I am chasing.
Holy shit that solo sound. Perfect.
been curious about that Siamese Dream era tone for years. I knew bits and pieces of it, such as the JCM 800 head with KT88's, master cranked with the preamp controlling the gain structure, Distortion+ into an op amp Muff, and so on. I got the Lace Sensors and the op amp muff, but couldn't quite wrap my head around the rest of the equation.
I decided to build a pedalboard recently and learned about IRs. I've been using older modelers for years, as I just mess around in my room by myself, and had no idea how far the tech had come... IRs have opened a whole new world for me. knowing that it's possible to get there with gear I can actually afford (or save up for over the years) is a very happy surprise. I presumed it would be out of reach or infeasible, given all the expensive gear, rack stuff, super involved production techniques, and so on.
this has pretty much all the missing pieces of the puzzle -- or at least, all the major ones I couldn't figure out! I'll have to take a stab at modeling some of the aspects with modern software / tools in conjunction with my pedals while I save up for other bits and pieces. simply incredible.I'm really excited to keep exploring, and that's a godsend as this pandemic drags on and I keep wrestling with other things that bring me down. thank you so much for sharing this.
That lead is insane
daamn, Soma sounds amazing!
Not sure how anyone could dislike this video. We appreciate your work!
I'm one of the people who hit the dislike button. I don't like people who wear hats inside. It's rude and just straight up inappropriate. There are probably kids who are gonna watch this video and they are gonna see this guy wearing a tuque inside like it's the end of the world or something. It's such a terrible example to set. For shame to this man and anyone else who liked this video, including yourself, buck-o!
@@jimtroeltsch5998 youre so stuck up literally no one cares about wearing hats inside
@@jimtroeltsch5998 are you even serious?!
@@narnball lol what do you think?
Thanks for uploading this! Was looking forward to it since your original Reddit post!
Glad to and I hope you liked it. Thanks for watching!
Eddie Clark most definitely liked it. I'm not familiar at all with pedals and amp knowledge, so watching you explain what they do was great. Would love to see one of machine ii if you ever decide to :) This one kicked ass btw :D
Thanks for running use through this set-up. Excellent work.
Instasub dude you killed the tone the first minute. Cheers from a fellow guitarist!
you got it pretty close, and you re a really good comunicator, thanks man
Glad to! Thanks for watching 👍
A good friend of mine is (Billy) in a Siamese Dream tribute band. You've absolutely NAILED it!
Dude, thats my dream rig right there! FUCKING NAILED IT!!!
So good man great take on sound ... love your covers best I’ve seen on TH-cam
woaaah this sounds spot on, nice job!
Thank you!
I think you nailed it!
Thank you! 👍
Great video man. I need to get that lead tone lol
Good stuff. That Marshall looks great rehoused.
Great video bud. Thank you for your time and commitment...
Could you perhaps do a vid or an instruction on how you set up the settings on the H9 for Soma? Love all your videos! Can’t wait for the next!!!
I second that! I use delay and chorus when I play it, but whatever you were doing sounded way better/closer.
Awesome. Love it. You look like me when jamming out to Pumpkins.. big ass grin and just eating it up.
Amazing video dude, you've really nailed the tones which is a real achievement since you've managed to translate the sound from a studio recording sound into a pedalboard. I've just checked out the eventide pedal and safe to say I might have to wait until I think of getting one since Ive already bought two new pedals this month 🤪
Excellent work. Sounds great.
That’s amazing. Thanks for sharing that!!
lace sensor are the best pickup ever made
amazing work! you got super close to the tone. If you do a match eq of the stems with izotope ozone though, you can get that tone 100% by replicating the whole signal chain. i did it and it is sooo fun to play.
i was just thinking about doing this
Just awesome. Perfect tone 👌
Thank you and thanks for watching!
thanks for sharing Eddie. Hummer was perfect.
Glad to and thanks!
Mad respect man!
Thank you 👍
Wow, nailing it!
it sounds super accurate. did you personally ask billy corgan to tell you the secret for his tone?
Thanks! I wish lol. I'm just a nerdy gear head with too much time on his hands.
Very nice! You just got my sub for this
Thank you! Glad you liked it.
Hey Eddie you think you would tackle some Mellon collie covers and would you do F*** You and ode to no one ? The solo in that track sounds so sporadic and awesome like corgan did it in a take on the whim. Would love to hear you play it your corgan solo tributes are the best.
I've never tried that solo. It is chaotic. I'll have to give it a shot! Thanks for watching 👍
If I remember right Billy has said he was in the room with his amp cranked all the way so he had to play that solo tight to keep it from exploding w feedback
Very awesome! Cheers man!
How did you determine amp settings? I just picked up a Marshall 4x12 JCM800 lead 1960a cab with original vented white label G12T-75’s and as soon as I plugged in lace sensor strat into my JMP 2204 with the master cranked and low gain through my 1978 op amp big muff, that was IT. So awesome.
It’s really important to emphasize the early white label G12T-75’s. Even the later UK models were vastly different, not to mention the Chinese 75’s.
Surprisingly, Creambacks sounded way closer to the vintage white labels than actual newer G12T-75’s. Finally, as difficult as it is to justify, the sound of a 4x12 is crucial. Even close miking a single singer. The cab just resonates differently.
Billy shows his JCM 800 setting a few times in interviews. I think the first place he mentions it is in the Siamese Dream tab book.
I use the original vented white G12T-75s as well as a G12-65 (the predecessor to the 75) loaded 4x12. Vintage speakers are almost always better.
If your JMP has EL34’s, try out KT88s. Tubes don’t really sound too different but the added headroom with the master on 10 makes a difference.
Thanks for watching!
@@EddieClark oh! Right on. Same settings as you have in the video I presume? :)
@@EddieClark wow, that is so shrill sounding with the presence up that high. Hmmm
Make sure the treble is at 0 or 1. I never run more than that. Also to consider, the JMP’s are often a little brighter than the JCM versions. I’ve had multiple of both and I usually end up with a bright cap delete in the JMP amps.
Just picked up a 1985 Marshall Master Lead 30W solid state. Supposed to be very JMC 800 like. Looking forward to trying your amp settings!
That's awesome! I like the '80 solid states so much better than the '90s Valvestate garbage 💪👍
Thanks for watching!
Great tips especially the speakers! Only thing you're missing is Billy's fingers😉
I’ll see if I can find a set on Reverb 🤣
I’ve seen someone use a half-cocked wah before the overdrive and muff and nailed the lead tone. Add in a phaser with the rate all the way down and depth all the way up and you’ll get the Cherub Rock lead sound.
I could see that working really well. I use a Microsynth, phaser and Jordan buzz tone to get that sound.
th-cam.com/video/TDSZsjFkjTg/w-d-xo.html
@@EddieClark nice, i just checked that out, yeah I think yours is dead on for Cherub Rock. You even managed to get that broken speaker sort of sound you hear in the last second or two of the song, always loved that.
Im sure you figured this out by now, but the Jordan Boss Tone is the most likely culprit for the lead "secret" fuzz that you're substituting the Tumnus for. :)
th-cam.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/w-d-xo.html
Here's the videos where I break that down :)
Thanks for watching!
@@EddieClark oh yeah! Perfect haha sounds great! Just recently snagged a vintage micro synth. Psyched to hook it up and pump out some Pumpkin solos
@@sugarnap245I have not heard another jordan buzz tone that sounds like the one in his video :(
So sick
Sounds great!!!!
behringer super fuzz on mode 2 with the big muff gets close to the siamese lead tone for cheap. excluding any modulation effects
Its really noisy and messy though
@@leob4403 skill issue
@@frankymcdonald7176 you cant get the micro synth sound with the behringer and big muff thats for sure
Hahaha, love the Mr. Bean photo in the background
He's a constant source of inspiration in our household 🤣
Had that g12 in a Marshall Studio 30 combo back in the day.
Yeh, it’s gone...and I regret it.
I've got a few of those regrets too 👍
Great video
Thank you 👍
I truly believe you will nail the lead tone when you figure out which octave pedal to use. Its in that octave pedal
Probably using some oddball, killer octave fuzz from the 60s/70s, that was sitting around that multimillion dollar studio of Billy's. I have a v4, and v5 opamp Muff and there is an "octaveness" in the muff naturally, so you really need to hunt down a v4 v5 or v6 to go along with that magical , and mysterious octave pedal he REALLY used. I honestly dont think the studioboard had as much to do with it.
😁 the octave effect is a Microsynth
The Lead Guitar Sounds of Siamese Dream (The Smashing Pumpkins)
th-cam.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/w-d-xo.html
Here it is in use
th-cam.com/video/QY0a63439bw/w-d-xo.html
How different would it sound if I were using a stock SC20C without any mods? Great vid btw, absolutely the closest and most informative video I've seen on this topic!
I don't think it makes a huge difference TBH. Using a G12T-75 speaker is a much better investment for nailing the sound.
Awesome! Thanks
When you played through the amp speaker I was meh but suddenly you played through amplitude and that was IT
Damn that sounds good. So addictive to play aint it????
6:44 are you using just the muff only? Or the dist + into the muff?
That’s just the Big Muff.
Great sound!! Love the intro! Just wondering if you have played around much bypassing the amp completely and trying to achieve the same using amp sims? Softube do a range of Marshall’s including a 2203 with KT88’s. Be interesting to hear what you get.
I've played with a couple and they get VERY close.
Cool , just subbed
Eddie Clark Shout-out, this is one of the most useful videos I've seen on this type of subject. The gear is out of my price range but I appreciate how you don't just talk shop but show us rubes out there how all this gear achieves that sound. I'm looking to buy a Fender. I've always played nylon classical guitars and know zip about electric guitars. Any advice on what strats to stay away from?
Thanks! I'm glad you found it useful. Best advice I can give is go play as many as possible and find one that just feels right.
I really enjoyed this video and would love to know how you went about making the custom SC20. I’ve been wanting to do the same and the way you did it looks great!
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
My local amp tech made the tube change for me. The 12" enclosure is the Mojotone 18 watt combo with a 7.5" back panel to accommodate the extra amp chassis depth.
Great video. Are you using the amp head also in amplitube or just the cabinet and speakers?
Thanks 👍
Just the cabinet and speakers. The amp is the SC20 into a UA OX for its DI feature.
itd be sweet if you showed how to get these tones in amplitube exclusively. i can get relatively close using my marshall and big muff, but i am just getting into amps and pedals, and unfortunately cant go buy the microsynth and harmonizer... been chasing the siamese dream tone on amplitube forever now with no avail
When you're talking about the eventide, are you referring to the H-3000? I managed to find one on eBay and it's awesome
Yup. I was just using an H9 on my board to get close but yeah the H3000 is amazing!!
Thanks for watching!
This is so awesome! Would you ever make another video about the tone since you seemed to have perfected it even further in your newer videos. Also do you have Ig or something? I have so many questions 😄
Yeah, I figured out the lead tones better than here. I'm planning on eventually doing one covering the different album lead tones.
@@EddieClark Yeah, I'm definitely eager to see more. I have a marshall dsl40c, the closest I've gotten is the op amp ri, phase 90, boss super overdrive, and lastly a TC electronic mimiq which makes a huge difference in my opinion. I'd love to find an octave pedal to nail the leads but I wanna try and get as close as possible and stacking an octave fuzz along with op amp bug muff i feel like is too much, idk tho. From my own research I though he just stacked the big muff with the dist.ii but when you mentioned stacking fuzz I was surprised. You seem to know a lot more than me tho 😄
@@MolotovLake there's a few pedal combos for the leads. The Mimiq is a great idea for getting the album layered sound. I do the same with a Strymon Deco
@@EddieClark If you make another video it would be much appreciated to go more in depth with the pedals and their settings and stuff. I'm not too familiar with the deco but remember seeing another video where they used it for a dub. Idk much about it, it looks like a very complicated pedal to use lol
Also, I'm very curious how the microsynth fits into the rig, is that how he did octaves? I find the octaves to be the hardest part because they always sound like an organ and stacking with the fuzz always makes it sound a but strange if it isn't an actual octave fuzz pedal. Any ideas? I'd love to see that encorporated into the final rig rundown lol
I have an op-amp big muff and I’m running it into my low gain input on my jcm 800, but I’m not sure how to dial the Marshall in.
Love the video! What song are you playing at 5:34?
That’s “Where Boys Fear to Tread” from Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
Very cool. Check out the Pumpkin Pi by Stomp Under Foot, I bought one the other day instead of the op amp muff. I use it with a TS9 and the tone is identical
I've tried it. It's a good fuzz pedal 👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Thankssssss !!
When you’re playing cherub rock and use the red + silver pickups, do you mean the out of phase bridge + middle strat sound? +Eddie Clark
Yup! That's the position I'm using but they're not out of phase. They are in phase. Out of phase sounds very nasal
Don’t dream it be it!
This guy Billy Corgans. KT88s in a Marshall? Check. Red Lace Sensors? Check. These are all those little details I remember as a teenager from the Siamese Dream tab book, lol. The only gear I went for in the 90s to be Pumpkins-y was 'a Big Muff' - which Big Muff, though? (This was before the internet was much help, remember!) I got the Sovtek Green Russian, and, well, at the time I thought it was great, but it's quite a different beast from the OpAmp. But even after getting the OpAmp reissue, I still go back to my ol' Greenie for nostalgia's sake (and it has surprisingly better clarity for individual notes!)
That sounds familiar to me! My first muff was a green sovtek as well. Couldn't figure out why it didn't sound right 🤣
That said; they're still my favourite muffs outside of Pumpkins tones.
Thanks for watching 👍
Was the intro improvised? It sounded freakin awesome!
Yes it was. Thanks!
Heyyy great video, quick question, do you have the volume and tone knobs of your guitar maxed or rolled off a bit?
Thanks! All of the guitars knobs are at 10.
Please do a Melon Collie tone video
I subscribed I love the pumpkins
also a Peavey classic chorus 212 wit SUPER SAT Distortion can get those distortion sounds and less compresion
NICE
Amazing walkthrough of the Siamese tones. I have a fender Strat with all single coil pickups. I love the neck pickup for warm clean tones, but am considering switching out the middle and bridge pickups for something else. What do you recommend for Siamese tones?
Just try a red lace sensor in the bridge and leave the middle for now. The Silver in the middle of the SD era Strat is just a copy of a far Strat pickup which is almost decked/level to the pickguard.
Thanks for watching!
Hey man, great stuff here. Curious on your thoughts between the SC20 and the full 100watt JCM800. In your experience does the SC20 match the original in terms of that big muff into low gain channel sound?
I grew up with a 1983 JCM 800 2203. I loved it. The SC20 is 99% of the way there. Being able to run the master on 10 is a huge part of the sound with that amp. It needs to be wide open. Doing that with my 100 watt growing up is why I have tinnitus. I can do this with the 20 watt version and not go deaf. The 100 watt version may produce a little more low end but not in a way that anyone will notice in a mix or live situation. Hope that helps and thanks for watching!
TLDR - yes the 20 watt version can match the sound.
@@EddieClark Awesome! Thanks so much
Great video! Could i ask if there is any budget alternative to a jcm800?
Thanks! The Origin 20 or Origin 50 are great alternatives. Have a listen here:
th-cam.com/video/S-WyWh_EqZg/w-d-xo.html
Eddie, I love these videos. I am now thinking about getting an H9. Can you talk how you got the SOMA sounds on the H9?
Great video! Out of curiosity, what made you pick the Phase 100 over the 90 or 95?
Thanks! I have a phase 90 as well (which I actually think sounds better on its own). The 100 is just what Billy used on Siamese Dream.
@@EddieClark Good to know!
This is amazing I’m starting guitar and got a strat because I love the rhythm tone of SP. Do you think a boss ds1 could also give a similar vibe to this? I definitely want to get a big muff but I also like heavier tones
Always great seeing more people start playing! A Boss DS1 is a different animal altogether but it's a great distortion sound. It may not sound like a muff BUT Pumpkins riffs will sound great if you use it anyways! Something to keep in mind is Billy himself never uses a muff live. 👍👍
@@EddieClark Thank you for the reply. Im looking for a specific sound, distorted with a dash of pumpkins. Im going to try out the Boss DS1 and then get a muff later on
Hi mate, love your work. Thanks for the info, especially for the dist2 - I've been looking for a mxr dist ii clone for a while and this looks perfect. Thanks again. I'm also interested in the eventide harmonisor effect for soma intro. Which harmonisor are you using and what settings? Thanks.
Thank you!
I'm using an Eventide H9 so it will fit on a pedal board. The module in the H9 is called "Resonator". It allows you to set 4 steps of ascending (or descending) pitch filtered delay notes. In stereo mode, it does a left/right ping-pong that sounds amazing.
I just set up a custom MKII Pro electric kit, and I haven't played drums since 2006,3 months and I'm playing Gish and Siamese Dream, which I've never played before ,i have to start making videos,
FYI, another great way to tame/kill that noise on the cheap is to add a second (Cheap-o Amazon tuner behind all the gain pedals)
I was chasing this tune a few years back w/ a Digitech Bad Monkey boosting an Op amp reissue into an old 80's Marshall LEAD 15 solid state mini stack (gain low/master high).
Honestly sounded pretty awesome mic'd up!
I no longer have that mini Marshall tho. : (
Damn...
Now I'm all melancholy😐🤨🙃
nice
Wonder if you’ve heard of the fender lt25/50/GT amp. Got a bunch a customizable tones and wondered if you knew of the fender-renamed tones I should use
Unfortunately I am not familiar with that amp.
To my ears the rhythm guitars sounded like it was miced up too far away? I don't know the album sounds a lot more direct without much room sound. But awesome either way sounds great.
Edit: Nevermind you addressed it, seems my ears a bit better than I thought
Bruh... That tone at 4:22 is a revelation. How did you dial in the low end with muddying up the sound too much? Trying to perfect my Siamese Dream tone for a new project and always it's too tinny or too muddy.
I let the bass guitar fill the bottom. I filter out a lot of lows.
@@EddieClark Do you have a video where you cover your SP bass set up? It would be really cool to learn more about that!
@@cartographerband6071 I can go over it when I do the next tone tutorial video 👍
@@cartographerband6071 I second this!
Hey got a question for you... Im running a marshall DSL combo with fuzz pedal into my 2notes captor attenuator and into wall of sound cab sim plug in.... If I use amplitube instead do I just turn the virtual amp off since I am using my real amp but need the cabinet and mic simulation?
That’s exactly it. I turn off the speaker simulation in my UA OX and set it to DI mode. Then I disable the head in Amplitube 5 and just use the G12T-75 speaker sims with the C414 and Senn 421
Awesome I mucked around with it yesterday and got some thing close. I just got a bit of clipping having maxed the volume on my amp and used my gain as a volume control. Love your videos mate, massive pumpkins fan.