Makes you realize how much production Butch and Billy put into the recording of the album. Never in a thousand lives would I contemplate about using 6+ pedals for a lead sound. Makes me realize how much of a sonic architect Billy is. I suppose the less is more approach simply didn't cut it back then :) Now I understand why he was using a looper switcher on the Siamese Dream tour. You can see it in many videos. Such a crazy record. Soundwise totally unique. Almost a bit alien, really muddy sometimes - but it worked 100%. Funny that no band (at least to my knowledge) ever tried to use a similar sound configuration for their records. You wouldn't dare to get too close to Siamese Dream because it's so all encompassing and recognizable. The guys at EHX in New York probably keep a Billy Corgan altar with candles and a Big Muff in the middle :)
This is quite unexpected. I would never have arrived at this organisation of pedals to achieve this sound (and I would have failed massively had I tried). Brilliant and instructive. Thanks!
I love the Buzz Tone. It's part of my main board build as well (not just my Siamese Dream build). "Here is no Why" is one I need to finish up. I recorded the solo for a short earlier this year. th-cam.com/video/wZd2durotvc/w-d-xo.html
@@EddieClark Hi Eddie, may I ask if you've tried using the setup in this video in a band/live context and, if you have, did it yield good results or did you find that you were a bit lost in the mix?
Well this was slightly embaressing...you have literally just built my pedalboard. Only differences are a Diamond Comp Jr, a Mid-Fi Peace Gun in place of the Jordan fuzz and a Bad Stone phaser. You made me realise how much I owe to Billy's tones!! Great demo, thanks so much
No. The Buzz Tone is a close circuit to the fuzz that was pulled out of the MSA lap steel guitar. The bloody finger didn’t come around until well after Siamese Dream
Yeah I think I’ve replicated your sounds with a few changes to the choice of pedals. HUGE SOUND. Thank you so much and I’ve tested this live, it holds up really greatly
It’s amazing how close you’re getting to the lead sounds with the pedal board. I know they did a lot of post production tricks. Any chance of a tutorial on the Soma leads?
I’ve been playing for a long time myself and I’m a pretty decent guitar player but I feel you on that. Breaking it down is a whole other can of worms. That said, your arrangement was really cool and even a slightly slowed down, close in tutorial would be more than I’ve seen.
Holy shit, this is fukin amazing! You are nailing these lead tones! I love how in Billy's solos, the sustained 1 note holds and then the fuzz/synth/phase chokes it out in a fizzle of signal exhaustion...
What a crazy creative and unusual approach, his signal chain is mind boggling until, it comes together. Then, there it is! I dont want to sound like someone else but there are things I love and would like to barrow from it. I remember seeing them play the whole album live Lalapalooza 1993 I think it was. All I can say is, I remember it being, dynamic, and intense, the vibes and feel, it was absolutely unreal. Some of his best work IMO. Thanks for this.
Jeez, I was getting caught up with simply how well done your video is and then... and then 7:47. Glad I came across your channel after I've been thinking about SP's tones a lot lately. Awesome quality.
I made a helix preset for the cherub rock solo and it's a lot of the same effects you're using. I use their "retro-reel" and that's pretty much what the strymon is doing here. I have the synth running parallel at one point in the chain with the mix down to keep it sort of subtle. I have their mutron bi-phase model on there as well. I can't remember the exact amp model I'm using, it's either a JCM 800 or JCM 2000, with the drive up and a good amount of mids, and a treble booster into a big muff model. I can't remember if I put any other modulation on it. I might have done a chorus or a very slow flange set very low. I think I also used a wah set on one frequency with mix down to about 40 or 45 just to get some extra pop on the mids.
I also just bought all of the vintage Mellon Collie rack gear, but the Strategy 500 is in the shop being repaired as we speak. When I get it back, my first cover is going to be Porcelina for sure! Ruby I think is the second best song on that album. I’m more interested in playing the B sides of that album.
I love it. Man, and I thought I was the ultimate Pumpkin fan. This is really helpful. Thanks for what I'm sure was a hell of a lot of work. I'm going to try to recreate this. I've got the right pedals, just not the specific make and models you are using. We'll see if I can get close. Thanks again. Great insight to a much beloved sound and album.
Hi Eddie. Great and instructive video. Just wondered if you had any thoughts on a similar replacement for the Distortion 2, now Made by Mike isn’t making pedals anymore? (Apart from the MXR distortion 2 obviously). Thanks in advance.
Could you do a video where you compare the standard humbucker or single coil with the lace sensor guitar for these songs? How much of a difference do the lace sensors make
@@EddieClarkbtw JHS pedals released the legends of fuzz Plugin pedal a few months back, supposedly its an exact copy of the original jordan buzz tone, yet on all the videos I heard it doesnt have the sound you have here, and those guys have really expensive amps and guitars, not only doesn't it sound like this, it has the thinnest and weakest sound out of all the fuzz legends series! some further explanation how to get that tone would be killer, is there a difference between the jordan boss tone and the buzz tone? Are you running a certain preamp or something?
Awesome video dude! You've nailed those tones👏👏👏 Please can you do a video on Starla. Would be really interesting to explore all those reverse efects in the intro and that mad filtered solo.
This is a video I’ve waited 25+ years for. Just ordered a Buzz Tone. May get the Bloody Finger instead of the Dist 2. Also looking at the Deco. Would love to see a breakdown of some of their more modern clean wash tones such as Wound. Likely based around the same Selmer as Tonite, Tonite?
The other buzz tone demos I heard on youtube does not sound like this at all. Did you get this sound with it? The ehx satisfaction does not sound like it whatsoever
Is the capistan and the strymon deco the same bc billy used that one i dont rembember where i saw that but it was in that stompland video where he shows all his pedals
I've been checking out videos on this topic for a decade, and this is the First youtube ever, that TRUILY gets the tone right and accurately enough to use the STRYMON DECO - which is CRITICAL. Instant credibility, subscribed.
wow, you are really thorough. Just the kind of video I was looking for. If you did this type of thing for every(eh, most) 90s bands, I'm sure your channel would blow up. Good job.
Killer playing, man! You definitely nailed all the little intricacies that make Billy's playing *so* expressive and exciting to listen to. Also, I love the in-depth research that went into making this, especially as a huge Pumpkins fan. Do you think I can approximate the tones you got with the Micro-Synth using a Pitch Fork? (the Micro-Synth is a little too expensive for me). Again, huge kudos for the amazing work you did!
Thank you! Greatly appreciated! The best cheaper alternative to the Microsynth I've found is the EQD Bit Commander. The nice thing about the Bit Commander is you don't need the compressor for the longer sustain. The Pitch Fork will get you 50% of the way there though. Hope that helps!
Oh and question about saturation tones and pedals. Have you thought about the JHS Color box V2 for the saturation tones? I am now chasing all the pedals that you used!
Thanks so much for doing this video! I was working on a cover of Hummer and struggling to get that Siamese Dream tone but this video on the lead tone and the other one on the general Siamese Dream sound were so helpful - your covers are spot on too!
Yup! They sound about the same. I did a comparison here: th-cam.com/video/DImXRZ_ebCI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=F8tTR2OIQLH6jUtB IMO, the best Pumpkins Muff is the SUF Pumpkin Pi. It’s bottom end stacks differently when multitracked. That said, my favourite all rounder is the Wren & Cuff for aesthetics. It sounds identical to the reissue though.
any chance we could settings for the strymon? i just picked one up and i’m having trouble dialing it in, while on subject, what’s the mods you have to do to the satisfaction? id be interested to know
You need to use your ear to fine tune but set the Lag Time to around 2 o’clock and then tweak until it’s hovering between chorus and delay. Then set the Blend so the wet signal is a little quieter than the dry signal. Either of the first two modes will work well
Not the case at all. It's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with itz It sounds the same as the rest. TBH, up until I got the Pumpkin Pi, I used to just pick one at random and slap it down on the board. Here's the comparison video I made on the topic. th-cam.com/video/DImXRZ_ebCI/w-d-xo.html
Marshall amps will set you free. Using that as the power amp and base of your tone will get you into Pumpkin territory. Modern Marshalls like the JVM and DSL series heads will definitely get it done, since he had always used modded, jumped up versions of the JCM-800 with KT-88 tubes. Now for live tones... A common misconception is that Corgan used the same Big Muff Pi and JCM-800 live on the Siamese Dream TOUR, which is false. He couldn't get the Muff to sound good live, so he ditched the JCM "SOUL" head and started using a JMP-1 preamp going through a Marshall Monobloc power amp in rackmount form. He had already owned the Mesa-Boogie Strategy 500 power amps during the recording of Siamese Dream, but he wouldn't incorporate the two units into his rack until early 1995. A lot of the effects was an Eventide H3000 Ultra-Harmonizer and possibly something else. He loved the Yamaha REX-50 on the Gish tour as well. I know this is for the album tones, but I'd like to add context to a live application
First off, congratulations to Eddie for managing to nail these sounds - incredible work! You have gained a subscriber. Secondly, does anybody have any experience of trying to use this setup (or similar) in a live context? How was it? Does (or did) your guitar shine through in the mix or does it just get lost in a mush of scooped fuzz? I know BC didn't use the Muff for live applications. In fact, I believe he mainly used rack gear for a long time when performing.
Hi Eddie, when you have the typical Siamese dream lead tone fully enabled (with the microsynth and buzztone activated), do you ALSO use the big muff? (Or are you only using the dist2 to add some crunch?). Thx!!!
Two questions: -how does Billy’s big muff pi pedal compare to the other fuzzes you’re using? -your signal chain… order and are you going through just the front of the amp or just muff in front and effects rear? Huge fan of pumpkins! I’ve been using a slightly mod.ed jcm900, phase 90, mod.ed line 6 MM4 which has the mutron bi-phase and billys muff pi by EH. I’m not trying to be a tone chaser but the sound on Siamese is one of the greatest ever recorded and I’ve been chasing this sound for years. Crazy thing is, I hated pumpkins when they first came out and Today was on MTV every 5 minutes.
If you watch this video (th-cam.com/video/DImXRZ_ebCI/w-d-xo.html) you'll hear the SUF Pumpkin Pi played. This is the closest to the SD Muff in my opinion. All the pedals are going into the front of the amp. I am not using the amp's effects loop. The Muff is the first effect in the chain then it goes into the loop switch box (not to be confused with an amp effects loop). In the loop box are the rest of the pedals in the order I described. Hope that helps and thanks for watching!
I never leave them on like that when I’m playing so I don’t bother. It would be a good idea if someone wanted to stack gain like this with musical pauses though 👍
Hi! I've started building this rig (though I ended up going with the bit commander over the microsynth due to board space constraints). I just wanted to clarify something that you're doing that no one else seems to be, Big muff FIRST before the lead chain loop, not the other way around?
Awesome to hear. The Bit Commader subs in nicely for the Microsynth. Good choice. I ran the Muff that way on that board mostly due to lack of choice in the pedal order with the constraints I put in place for that rig. Also, because I'm not really using it for many leads and the few it gets used for have a bigger sweep sound from the modulation being after (re Mayonaise). The rest of the leads are the other pedals in the chain. Hope that makes sense. Let me know if anything needs clarification 👍
I have all of those pedals except they’re the original vintage pedals, I also have the earlier “Script” Phase 100. I even have a V4 and V5 big muff. The output on the V4 comes out much louder than the V5 for some reason, I actually love the V5 sound a little better. Of course I also had to get a JCM800 with KT88 tubes for that super clean tone to play them on.
First thanks and love the videos and your board.♥I get the loop switcher however, can you please list your pedal order? I noticed in your recent video the Jordan is at the beginning. Looks like the Muff is first. However I can't seem to trace everything unless, it's as it's laid out. (Muff - Compressor - Synth - Jordan - Phase90 - Dist2 - Deco - Eventide). Also, what reverb setting are you using on the Eventide? Thanks in advance keep it up!
Thank you and thanks for watching! The order is exactly as it appears/how you have listed. I am not using any reverb in the Eventide though. I use it for the Soma delay sound and for its tape delay sounds.
Kurt may have been the best songwriter of his era but Billy was the best guitarist. No other singer/songwriter at his level could shred like he can. Rivers Cuomo comes close.
Hi, I have been playing a lot of Machina lately, one of my fave albums and I can't seem to find the website for the smashing pumpkins sound/gear archive anymore. Any links or info you have regarding Machina's shimmering chorus sounds and such? Btw, imploding voice is such a fun song to play :)
Awesome. About the phaser though, I'm not sure just any phaser would have the same effect. I've compared a vintage Bad Stone, Mutron Phasor II and MXR Phase 100, and the Phase 100 is definitely the one to go with on Siamese Dream. Especially Mayonaise.
Keeping the rate and color of other phasers can get you in the range but ultimately I agree with you. The Phase 100 is THE phaser for SD. Thanks for watching!
Also, the most illusive tone on that album to me is just that intro riff in Rocket. I definitely hear a subtle tape flange effect, especially in that last moment right before the drums kick in. But is it the MXR Dist II > Muff? Or was it just the Microsynth into a fuzz? I need to knowww!
I use my UA OX as a DI into G12T-75 impulse responses for recording videos. In real life use a pair of vintage G12T-75’s in the large combo (which is a rehoused Marshall SC20)
These are amazing. I’ve been trying to get the Hummer and Cherub Rock solo sound for years, never getting all that close. Totally thought it was because I had no MuTron haha. The Deco is a great addition. Thank you so much for going to the trouble. Subscribed immediately. Think you’ll do a Mellon Collie rhythm / lead tone segment?
You nailed the tones Eddie. Subscribed! How did you discover the Jordan boss tone as one of the ingredients to the corgan sound? All I ever read about since forever are IC big muffs, and occasionally a fender blender, but I’ve never heard of Bly using the Boss tone.
Thanks! I got that info from the original tab books. Billy used a fuzz pulled from an old slide guitar. The Buzztone is that type of circuit. Once I learned that they were the same/similar circuits, I had to give it a try.
Thanks Eddie. I think I also hear the micro synth on the soma guitar solo, it seems to have that octave up thing going on. Could you do a video on how to play the solo?
Wow! Your tones a spot on! Incredible! I've seen some of the other "sound like Smashing Pumpkins" videos that are not even close and pretty terrible to be honest. Everything in your videos is dead on from playing the guitar parts accurately to the subtle nuances of your technique and correct gear (pickups, amp and tubes, pedals, etc). The closest Siamese Dream tones I'd heard up until this point were on Elliot Stent's demo of the op-amp big muff, but you take it to a whole other level!
@@EddieClark awesome covers! I'm currently learning the intro and outro to Mayonaise. Did you use a phaser and if so which one and also which pickup for Billy's part? Thanks!
Hey Eddie, i came across your channel watching cover and I have to say you are doing Gods work, I really appreciate the effort you took to learn how all the little pieces fit together and you are the only guy I've found that goes into depth on how these all fit together. I really want to learn more and wanted to see if I could contact you in anyway
Love this tone! Is the Dist2 placed after the Buzztone bc the Buzztone was presumably the model that plugged directly into the guitar? Sho-Sound Nashville issued a Buzztone. Wondering if Sho-Bud (Pedal Steel) is why this is referred to as a lap steel fuzz. Thoughts on that? Thanks!
Thanks! I love it as well. That is exactly the line of thinking I followed here. The Buzztone is the first fuzz in my chain after the synth and octave effects. Followed by the Phase 100 and Dist II
@@EddieClark I'd lend you my WH-1 😁. I also remember that the harmonizing craziness might have been from an Eventide H3000, with an expression pedal, I'd guess.
Interesting- I have the micro synth and don’t use it much because the notes don’t sustain long. I’m definitely going to try it with a compressor now. Thank you for sharing this
hey man awesome video. i know i'm 2 years late but could you provide some settings for the buzztone? it's pretty hard to see in all the shots you have in the video.
Never too late. The gain knob has a threshold where the pedal becomes a feedback nightmare. When the gain is on the edge of being uncontrollable, you will find the right setting
Great video, thanks for the tip on the ehx satisfaction. Any chance you could figure out a way of getting the "bubbles" live Soma delay sound without having to drop 3 grand on an eventide?
I use an Eventide H9 for getting close to that sound. It's still not cheap but $500 is better than $3000. It's "Resonator" setting subs in nicely. I used it for a few moments in my previous video on the subject to play Soma.
Love the video, very clearly done. I went out and bought the pedals I didn't have. Do you use the Buzz tone with the switch flipped up towards you or toward the ground? The volume jumps way up on one of them. With the settings I see in the video for everything I sometimes have issues getting whale scream sounds when the strings aren't silenced between notes.
Thank you! It's a very noisy lead chain at times. Especially when the Microsynth is not on (it gates your signal). I have the switch pointing down most of the the time with Buzz Tone. Sometimes the what scream sound just doesn't want to happen. I get that as well periodically.
Sorry Eddie! Another question for you about signal chain - it appears to be - IC Muff, into (looper) to compressor, synth, Buzztone, phaser, MXR II distortion, echo/delay, Deco back into looper? Is this correct?
I don't think so but I could be wrong. I would have to mess with one for a bit. If it was used, it would have to be set for unison on a G. The riff has a droning G throughout which gives it a bit of a Frequency Analyser vibe. If you have one, you should try it out and post a video 👍 Thanks for watching!
@@EddieClark th-cam.com/video/B6PwRyYRCX4/w-d-xo.html This is a very rough video and the riff is not 100% but I think there's something to the Frequency Analyser.
+Eddie Clark where in the chain is the muff? Looks like you gestured the order is JHS-synth-buzz tone-phaser-dist-deco-H9, is the muff before the JHS and loop 1 is empty with nothing in it to cut the noise?
Thank you for going so in depth on your videos. The buzz tone seems to be the missing ingredient. I was wondering if you have any recommendations for an alternative to the Dist2? Thanks again, would love to hear XYU from MCIS.
![Rig Rundown: The Smashing Pumpkins' Billy Corgan & Jeff Schroeder [2022]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s2jExoNQWnU/mqdefault.jpg)
you even got the hair down
😂😂😂
Makes you realize how much production Butch and Billy put into the recording of the album. Never in a thousand lives would I contemplate about using 6+ pedals for a lead sound. Makes me realize how much of a sonic architect Billy is. I suppose the less is more approach simply didn't cut it back then :) Now I understand why he was using a looper switcher on the Siamese Dream tour. You can see it in many videos. Such a crazy record. Soundwise totally unique. Almost a bit alien, really muddy sometimes - but it worked 100%. Funny that no band (at least to my knowledge) ever tried to use a similar sound configuration for their records. You wouldn't dare to get too close to Siamese Dream because it's so all encompassing and recognizable. The guys at EHX in New York probably keep a Billy Corgan altar with candles and a Big Muff in the middle :)
Yes they have even made a new orange pumpkin pi big muff.
right next to his David gilmour alter
Nevermind truly was a Nirvana Pumpkins album. Then, Siamese Dream was a Pumpkins Nirvana album.
@@Bossanovawitcha
Those are two pretty distinctly different albums.
@@CorbCorbin butch sewed them all together
This is quite unexpected. I would never have arrived at this organisation of pedals to achieve this sound (and I would have failed massively had I tried). Brilliant and instructive. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! Glad you found it useful! It was a huge “aha” moment when I first heard it all together.
SIAMESE DREAM is a perfect album
*Billy is the most under-rated axe man of all time*
Amazing video by the way
Underrated? Who tf says, he´s bad???
@@crowdsurfer77 Steve Lukather :o
Don't forget about Rocky George when you talk about under rated guitarists.
Yeah. He can play the guitar like crazy! But he is kind of a D-bag. That’s why he gets less respect. Just the truth.
Douche-Baggery and axe skills seem to be linked in some way haha@@I_have_Aquestion
For your Melancholy cover, try “Here is no why” and “Bodies”. Thanks! Also, awesome tip on the Jordan Buzz Tone.
completely agree! these were literally the same 2 songs i was going to recommend. Love also has an interesting tone too, id like to see that!!
I love the Buzz Tone. It's part of my main board build as well (not just my Siamese Dream build).
"Here is no Why" is one I need to finish up. I recorded the solo for a short earlier this year.
th-cam.com/video/wZd2durotvc/w-d-xo.html
Perfect song picks
@@idfkisaacthe tone of love is an easy to get you need a super fuzz and a really wild flanger
@@mariamujica6267Superfuzz? Where did you hear that?
Man I really don’t know how you don’t have a huge following this is so useful and in depth. Thank hou
Thank you! Glad you found it useful
@@EddieClark Hi Eddie, may I ask if you've tried using the setup in this video in a band/live context and, if you have, did it yield good results or did you find that you were a bit lost in the mix?
Well this was slightly embaressing...you have literally just built my pedalboard. Only differences are a Diamond Comp Jr, a Mid-Fi Peace Gun in place of the Jordan fuzz and a Bad Stone phaser. You made me realise how much I owe to Billy's tones!! Great demo, thanks so much
This channel deserves way more subscribers
Thanks Anthony. Greatly appreciated!
Is the buzz tone meant to simulate the Bloody Finger pedal used by BC?
No. The Buzz Tone is a close circuit to the fuzz that was pulled out of the MSA lap steel guitar. The bloody finger didn’t come around until well after Siamese Dream
Thanks! Great video @@EddieClark
would be very cool to see you do the Gish guitar tone
ADA MP-1!
Yeah I think I’ve replicated your sounds with a few changes to the choice of pedals. HUGE SOUND. Thank you so much and I’ve tested this live, it holds up really greatly
It’s amazing how close you’re getting to the lead sounds with the pedal board. I know they did a lot of post production tricks. Any chance of a tutorial on the Soma leads?
TBH - I'm not sure I'm good enough to be giving lessons but I would be willing to try if there's the interest
Yeah, lessons of sort would be great!
I’ve been playing for a long time myself and I’m a pretty decent guitar player but I feel you on that. Breaking it down is a whole other can of worms. That said, your arrangement was really cool and even a slightly slowed down, close in tutorial would be more than I’ve seen.
Thru the eyes of ruby!
Holy shit, this is fukin amazing! You are nailing these lead tones! I love how in Billy's solos, the sustained 1 note holds and then the fuzz/synth/phase chokes it out in a fizzle of signal exhaustion...
thankg god someone actually gave ALL THE PEDALS… ive been looking everywhere and I finally found it THANK YOU!!
No problem 👍
What a crazy creative and unusual approach, his signal chain is mind boggling until, it comes together. Then, there it is! I dont want to sound like someone else but there are things I love and would like to barrow from it. I remember seeing them play the whole album live Lalapalooza 1993 I think it was. All I can say is, I remember it being, dynamic, and intense, the vibes and feel, it was absolutely unreal. Some of his best work IMO. Thanks for this.
Thanks for watching! Glad to do this. 💪
Im looking at the chain order. It looks like guitar-opamp-comp-synth-buzz-phase-ds2-eventide-strymon-amp… Am I close?
That's exactly it 👍
Jeez, I was getting caught up with simply how well done your video is and then... and then 7:47. Glad I came across your channel after I've been thinking about SP's tones a lot lately. Awesome quality.
Thank you very much and thanks for watching! Hope it helped 👍
I made a helix preset for the cherub rock solo and it's a lot of the same effects you're using. I use their "retro-reel" and that's pretty much what the strymon is doing here. I have the synth running parallel at one point in the chain with the mix down to keep it sort of subtle. I have their mutron bi-phase model on there as well. I can't remember the exact amp model I'm using, it's either a JCM 800 or JCM 2000, with the drive up and a good amount of mids, and a treble booster into a big muff model. I can't remember if I put any other modulation on it. I might have done a chorus or a very slow flange set very low. I think I also used a wah set on one frequency with mix down to about 40 or 45 just to get some extra pop on the mids.
Great tips to either add or tweak.
Do you have a Bury Me cover.
Bury me in gear guitar sounds, slight pun 😅
I also just bought all of the vintage Mellon Collie rack gear, but the Strategy 500 is in the shop being repaired as we speak. When I get it back, my first cover is going to be Porcelina for sure! Ruby I think is the second best song on that album. I’m more interested in playing the B sides of that album.
Thank you so much for this. You’re giving me Alton Brown vibes. Easy to pay attention too. Do more vids like this!
Great video quality.
What camera were you using?
Thank you! I use a Sony A6500 with a Sigma 24mm 1.4f. Voice audio is handled separately with an off screen condenser mic
Thank you so much for this Eddie. Much more complex than I thought. That sustain on the leads always blows me away.
I love it. Man, and I thought I was the ultimate Pumpkin fan. This is really helpful. Thanks for what I'm sure was a hell of a lot of work. I'm going to try to recreate this. I've got the right pedals, just not the specific make and models you are using. We'll see if I can get close. Thanks again. Great insight to a much beloved sound and album.
Would love to know how to mod that ehx satisfaction fuzz to make it more like the buzztone
Hi Eddie. Great and instructive video. Just wondered if you had any thoughts on a similar replacement for the Distortion 2, now Made by Mike isn’t making pedals anymore? (Apart from the MXR distortion 2 obviously).
Thanks in advance.
Sometimes I use a Klon Klone which works ok in a pinch. They generally handle fuzz before them (like the Buzz Tone) very well too.
Best pumpkins Siamese Dream tones I’ve ever heard outside of Billy and Company. Great job bro!! Liked and subbed
Thank you! Greatly appreciated.
Could you do a video where you compare the standard humbucker or single coil with the lace sensor guitar for these songs? How much of a difference do the lace sensors make
Thanks for watching. It just so happens that I already did this.
th-cam.com/video/S-WyWh_EqZg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8YNQMJOjpiP5wXiS
@@EddieClark awesome I'll check it out 🙏
@@EddieClarkbtw JHS pedals released the legends of fuzz Plugin pedal a few months back, supposedly its an exact copy of the original jordan buzz tone, yet on all the videos I heard it doesnt have the sound you have here, and those guys have really expensive amps and guitars, not only doesn't it sound like this, it has the thinnest and weakest sound out of all the fuzz legends series! some further explanation how to get that tone would be killer, is there a difference between the jordan boss tone and the buzz tone? Are you running a certain preamp or something?
Either of those Mellon Collie songs are good, but I like to rock, so I'd lean towards Jellybelly.
Jellybelly might be my all time favorite SP track, it’s so layered!
Awesome video dude! You've nailed those tones👏👏👏 Please can you do a video on Starla. Would be really interesting to explore all those reverse efects in the intro and that mad filtered solo.
Thanks! Appreciated! Starla has been requested a few times now so I guess I really should!
So just to see if i have this right, it's comp -> synth -> buzz -> phase -> dist2 -> H9 -> Deco with the Muff on a different channel??
Nailed it 👌
This is a video I’ve waited 25+ years for. Just ordered a Buzz Tone. May get the Bloody Finger instead of the Dist 2. Also looking at the Deco.
Would love to see a breakdown of some of their more modern clean wash tones such as Wound. Likely based around the same Selmer as Tonite, Tonite?
The other buzz tone demos I heard on youtube does not sound like this at all. Did you get this sound with it? The ehx satisfaction does not sound like it whatsoever
Is the capistan and the strymon deco the same bc billy used that one i dont rembember where i saw that but it was in that stompland video where he shows all his pedals
I've been checking out videos on this topic for a decade, and this is the First youtube ever, that TRUILY gets the tone right and accurately enough to use the STRYMON DECO - which is CRITICAL.
Instant credibility, subscribed.
wow, you are really thorough. Just the kind of video I was looking for. If you did this type of thing for every(eh, most) 90s bands, I'm sure your channel would blow up. Good job.
Thank you!
Killer playing, man!
You definitely nailed all the little intricacies that make Billy's playing *so* expressive and exciting to listen to.
Also, I love the in-depth research that went into making this, especially as a huge Pumpkins fan.
Do you think I can approximate the tones you got with the Micro-Synth using a Pitch Fork? (the Micro-Synth is a little too expensive for me).
Again, huge kudos for the amazing work you did!
Thank you! Greatly appreciated! The best cheaper alternative to the Microsynth I've found is the EQD Bit Commander. The nice thing about the Bit Commander is you don't need the compressor for the longer sustain. The Pitch Fork will get you 50% of the way there though. Hope that helps!
Oh and question about saturation tones and pedals. Have you thought about the JHS Color box V2 for the saturation tones? I am now chasing all the pedals that you used!
I have not thought about it in that way but it’s a pedal I want to try anyways!
Thanks so much for doing this video! I was working on a cover of Hummer and struggling to get that Siamese Dream tone but this video on the lead tone and the other one on the general Siamese Dream sound were so helpful - your covers are spot on too!
If I have the EHX Op Amp Big Muff, can I use that instead of the ‘78 IC Muff?
Yup! They sound about the same. I did a comparison here:
th-cam.com/video/DImXRZ_ebCI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=F8tTR2OIQLH6jUtB
IMO, the best Pumpkins Muff is the SUF Pumpkin Pi. It’s bottom end stacks differently when multitracked. That said, my favourite all rounder is the Wren & Cuff for aesthetics. It sounds identical to the reissue though.
any chance we could settings for the strymon? i just picked one up and i’m having trouble dialing it in, while on subject, what’s the mods you have to do to the satisfaction?
id be interested to know
You need to use your ear to fine tune but set the Lag Time to around 2 o’clock and then tweak until it’s hovering between chorus and delay. Then set the Blend so the wet signal is a little quieter than the dry signal. Either of the first two modes will work well
So you obviously don’t care for the “pumpkins” op amp that big muff released?
Not the case at all. It's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with itz It sounds the same as the rest. TBH, up until I got the Pumpkin Pi, I used to just pick one at random and slap it down on the board.
Here's the comparison video I made on the topic.
th-cam.com/video/DImXRZ_ebCI/w-d-xo.html
Marshall amps will set you free. Using that as the power amp and base of your tone will get you into Pumpkin territory. Modern Marshalls like the JVM and DSL series heads will definitely get it done, since he had always used modded, jumped up versions of the JCM-800 with KT-88 tubes. Now for live tones...
A common misconception is that Corgan used the same Big Muff Pi and JCM-800 live on the Siamese Dream TOUR, which is false. He couldn't get the Muff to sound good live, so he ditched the JCM "SOUL" head and started using a JMP-1 preamp going through a Marshall Monobloc power amp in rackmount form. He had already owned the Mesa-Boogie Strategy 500 power amps during the recording of Siamese Dream, but he wouldn't incorporate the two units into his rack until early 1995. A lot of the effects was an Eventide H3000 Ultra-Harmonizer and possibly something else. He loved the Yamaha REX-50 on the Gish tour as well.
I know this is for the album tones, but I'd like to add context to a live application
Infinite Sadness tone next with only pedals
First off, congratulations to Eddie for managing to nail these sounds - incredible work! You have gained a subscriber.
Secondly, does anybody have any experience of trying to use this setup (or similar) in a live context? How was it? Does (or did) your guitar shine through in the mix or does it just get lost in a mush of scooped fuzz? I know BC didn't use the Muff for live applications. In fact, I believe he mainly used rack gear for a long time when performing.
Hi Eddie, when you have the typical Siamese dream lead tone fully enabled (with the microsynth and buzztone activated), do you ALSO use the big muff? (Or are you only using the dist2 to add some crunch?). Thx!!!
It’s just as described in the video. The only song I would use the Muff for leads on is Mayonnaise.
@@EddieClark thx! Was hoping to pick your brain more on Reddit. I’ll send another DM. Willing to pay for consultation as well! (No joke).
Two questions:
-how does Billy’s big muff pi pedal compare to the other fuzzes you’re using?
-your signal chain… order and are you going through just the front of the amp or just muff in front and effects rear?
Huge fan of pumpkins! I’ve been using a slightly mod.ed jcm900, phase 90, mod.ed line 6 MM4 which has the mutron bi-phase and billys muff pi by EH. I’m not trying to be a tone chaser but the sound on Siamese is one of the greatest ever recorded and I’ve been chasing this sound for years. Crazy thing is, I hated pumpkins when they first came out and Today was on MTV every 5 minutes.
If you watch this video (th-cam.com/video/DImXRZ_ebCI/w-d-xo.html) you'll hear the SUF Pumpkin Pi played. This is the closest to the SD Muff in my opinion.
All the pedals are going into the front of the amp. I am not using the amp's effects loop. The Muff is the first effect in the chain then it goes into the loop switch box (not to be confused with an amp effects loop). In the loop box are the rest of the pedals in the order I described.
Hope that helps and thanks for watching!
Excelente explicación!!!! 🌟🎸😐
Muchísimas gracias y felicidades por tu canal ♥️✨👍🏻 está bien chingón.
🍺👽🚬
Dude! That’s some bad ass playing and tones
Appreciated mate!
Damn those pedals are noisy when you aren’t playing. How about a noise gate?
I never leave them on like that when I’m playing so I don’t bother. It would be a good idea if someone wanted to stack gain like this with musical pauses though 👍
Loving that micro synth sound - loved it so much I’ve just ordered one!
How much you paid?
@@leob4403 about £180 in the UK at the time. Prices here have really gone up since then
@leogovan5076 mine just arrived today :) do you know what order of the pedal chain is?
Hi! I've started building this rig (though I ended up going with the bit commander over the microsynth due to board space constraints). I just wanted to clarify something that you're doing that no one else seems to be, Big muff FIRST before the lead chain loop, not the other way around?
Awesome to hear. The Bit Commader subs in nicely for the Microsynth. Good choice. I ran the Muff that way on that board mostly due to lack of choice in the pedal order with the constraints I put in place for that rig. Also, because I'm not really using it for many leads and the few it gets used for have a bigger sweep sound from the modulation being after (re Mayonaise). The rest of the leads are the other pedals in the chain. Hope that makes sense. Let me know if anything needs clarification 👍
Dude, you're amazing! I'm in some SP fan groups. I'll be sharing your channel in both groups. Highly informative!
I have all of those pedals except they’re the original vintage pedals, I also have the earlier “Script” Phase 100. I even have a V4 and V5 big muff. The output on the V4 comes out much louder than the V5 for some reason, I actually love the V5 sound a little better. Of course I also had to get a JCM800 with KT88 tubes for that super clean tone to play them on.
Wow, i just discovered your channel.
At this point I must ask you to examine the Plume solos :)
I'll look at it ASAP. Anything for another nak muay.
@@EddieClark ahaaha alrighty ;)
First thanks and love the videos and your board.♥I get the loop switcher however, can you please list your pedal order? I noticed in your recent video the Jordan is at the beginning. Looks like the Muff is first. However I can't seem to trace everything unless, it's as it's laid out. (Muff - Compressor - Synth - Jordan - Phase90 - Dist2 - Deco - Eventide). Also, what reverb setting are you using on the Eventide? Thanks in advance keep it up!
Thank you and thanks for watching! The order is exactly as it appears/how you have listed. I am not using any reverb in the Eventide though. I use it for the Soma delay sound and for its tape delay sounds.
Thanks again ❤
No problem 👍
Kurt may have been the best songwriter of his era but Billy was the best guitarist. No other singer/songwriter at his level could shred like he can. Rivers Cuomo comes close.
Agreed. Rivers is also super underrated as far as skill level goes. The man can absolutely shred!
Hi, I have been playing a lot of Machina lately, one of my fave albums and I can't seem to find the website for the smashing pumpkins sound/gear archive anymore. Any links or info you have regarding Machina's shimmering chorus sounds and such? Btw, imploding voice is such a fun song to play :)
Awesome, you actually taught me something, I like you
Unreal, does anyone know what the order of the pedals is or if there is a diagram anywhere?
The order was covered in this video
hey its the i love my mom guitar!
Can't play Gish songs without a Yellow Strat!
i’m so lucky to have found this video, i was just looking for one
Awesome.
About the phaser though, I'm not sure just any phaser would have the same effect. I've compared a vintage Bad Stone, Mutron Phasor II and MXR Phase 100, and the Phase 100 is definitely the one to go with on Siamese Dream. Especially Mayonaise.
Keeping the rate and color of other phasers can get you in the range but ultimately I agree with you. The Phase 100 is THE phaser for SD.
Thanks for watching!
@@EddieClark Thanks for making the videos. Very inspiring.
Finally a decent video on their sound! Nailed it!
Also, the most illusive tone on that album to me is just that intro riff in Rocket. I definitely hear a subtle tape flange effect, especially in that last moment right before the drums kick in. But is it the MXR Dist II > Muff? Or was it just the Microsynth into a fuzz? I need to knowww!
What speaker do you have in your cab?
I use my UA OX as a DI into G12T-75 impulse responses for recording videos. In real life use a pair of vintage G12T-75’s in the large combo (which is a rehoused Marshall SC20)
These are amazing. I’ve been trying to get the Hummer and Cherub Rock solo sound for years, never getting all that close. Totally thought it was because I had no MuTron haha. The Deco is a great addition. Thank you so much for going to the trouble. Subscribed immediately. Think you’ll do a Mellon Collie rhythm / lead tone segment?
You nailed the tones Eddie. Subscribed! How did you discover the Jordan boss tone as one of the ingredients to the corgan sound? All I ever read about since forever are IC big muffs, and occasionally a fender blender, but I’ve never heard of Bly using the Boss tone.
Thanks! I got that info from the original tab books. Billy used a fuzz pulled from an old slide guitar. The Buzztone is that type of circuit. Once I learned that they were the same/similar circuits, I had to give it a try.
Thanks Eddie. I think I also hear the micro synth on the soma guitar solo, it seems to have that octave up thing going on. Could you do a video on how to play the solo?
@@dattoboy1 I can do that 👍
I am 99.9% sure there is no Microsynth on Soma but I will give it another listen 👍
that’s amazing
Question? Which of these pedals would be used for the leads on the song Today?
I'll have to double check when I'm reunited with my gear next month but I suspect it's the buzz tone, distortion ii and wha
@@EddieClark Thankyou
does the billy corgan haircut help get his tone too?
100%
Wow! Your tones a spot on! Incredible! I've seen some of the other "sound like Smashing Pumpkins" videos that are not even close and pretty terrible to be honest. Everything in your videos is dead on from playing the guitar parts accurately to the subtle nuances of your technique and correct gear (pickups, amp and tubes, pedals, etc). The closest Siamese Dream tones I'd heard up until this point were on Elliot Stent's demo of the op-amp big muff, but you take it to a whole other level!
Thank you very much! Elliot Stent's videos were part of my inspiration to to go after the recorded tones in a real way.
Thanks for watching!
@@EddieClark awesome covers! I'm currently learning the intro and outro to Mayonaise. Did you use a phaser and if so which one and also which pickup for Billy's part? Thanks!
@@pedaltasters380 thanks mate. I play Billy's part with the neck pickup (blue lace sensor) through a MXR Phase 100
@@EddieClark awesome, thanks for sharing! I really appreciate it!
dude your tone rocks, also for mellon collie i wanna hear An ode to no one and definitely JellyBelly
Jellybelly has been speaking to me lately.
So it’s guitar>muff>comp>synth>Jordan>phase100>dist>strymon>eventide>amp?
That's about it. That covers the vast majority of Siamese Dream
Hey Eddie, i came across your channel watching cover and I have to say you are doing Gods work, I really appreciate the effort you took to learn how all the little pieces fit together and you are the only guy I've found that goes into depth on how these all fit together. I really want to learn more and wanted to see if I could contact you in anyway
Thanks! What parts are you wanting to learn more about?
@@EddieClark How to produce similar tone or feeling in a DAW, or like how the vocals sound.
do you have the Eventide pedal setting?
I'll have a short video on the subject soon
Nice work, especially on the flange - Gonna make a fun lead sound with these tricks on my HX Effects
Love this tone! Is the Dist2 placed after the Buzztone bc the Buzztone was presumably the model that plugged directly into the guitar? Sho-Sound Nashville issued a Buzztone. Wondering if Sho-Bud (Pedal Steel) is why this is referred to as a lap steel fuzz. Thoughts on that? Thanks!
Thanks! I love it as well. That is exactly the line of thinking I followed here. The Buzztone is the first fuzz in my chain after the synth and octave effects. Followed by the Phase 100 and Dist II
Think you could swap the microsynth for a bit commander?
PORCELINA of the Vast Oceans please!
Amazing video Eddie. Can I ask you about the lace Sensors. What pot values are you using with them? Many thanks in advance.
Thanks! I’m just using 250k pots. Everything inside my black lace sensor Strat is stock.
Just subbed! Thank you. Amazing tones!
I am a Siamese zombie this s*** is cool 50 years later wow I love it.
Zero solo 👏 Zero solo 👏 Zero solo 👏
I'd love an excuse to pick up a whammy pedal.
@@EddieClark I'd lend you my WH-1 😁. I also remember that the harmonizing craziness might have been from an Eventide H3000, with an expression pedal, I'd guess.
Through the eyes of Ruby please! You are amazing Man
Interesting- I have the micro synth and don’t use it much because the notes don’t sustain long. I’m definitely going to try it with a compressor now. Thank you for sharing this
Glad to! Thanks for watching 👍
Also can show us how to make the mod on the electro harmonics satisfaction
hey man awesome video. i know i'm 2 years late but could you provide some settings for the buzztone? it's pretty hard to see in all the shots you have in the video.
Never too late. The gain knob has a threshold where the pedal becomes a feedback nightmare. When the gain is on the edge of being uncontrollable, you will find the right setting
@@EddieClarkThis is super great info since I just built one of these, how do you typically set your amp for these sounds?
Master on 10
Preamp/Gain on 6
Treble 0-1
Mids 10
Bass 10
Presence 9
@@EddieClark This is great, thanks!
No problem!
Great video, thanks for the tip on the ehx satisfaction. Any chance you could figure out a way of getting the "bubbles" live Soma delay sound without having to drop 3 grand on an eventide?
I use an Eventide H9 for getting close to that sound. It's still not cheap but $500 is better than $3000. It's "Resonator" setting subs in nicely. I used it for a few moments in my previous video on the subject to play Soma.
@@EddieClark thanks, H9 is on my shopping list. Just out of interest did you change to kt88s in your 800?
@@jonathanstark5703 yes I did. It helps get closer by keeping the power section cleaner longer BUT it's not critical to the sound.
Great video . Informative! Thank you😎
Alright, take off the glasses Billy, you're not fooling me
Please do Mellon collie lead tone next! This is the best video about the Siamese tone that exists
I will absolutely be covering MCIS as soon as I can collect all the necessary gear 👍
@@EddieClark Marshall JMP-1!
@@chriskareska4017 absolutely. It’s key
Love the video, very clearly done. I went out and bought the pedals I didn't have. Do you use the Buzz tone with the switch flipped up towards you or toward the ground? The volume jumps way up on one of them. With the settings I see in the video for everything I sometimes have issues getting whale scream sounds when the strings aren't silenced between notes.
Thank you! It's a very noisy lead chain at times. Especially when the Microsynth is not on (it gates your signal). I have the switch pointing down most of the the time with Buzz Tone.
Sometimes the what scream sound just doesn't want to happen. I get that as well periodically.
Sorry Eddie! Another question for you about signal chain - it appears to be - IC Muff, into (looper) to compressor, synth, Buzztone, phaser, MXR II distortion, echo/delay, Deco back into looper? Is this correct?
Yup. That’s it.
Do you think he used an Electro Harmonix Frequency Analyser for the intro to Rocket?
I don't think so but I could be wrong. I would have to mess with one for a bit. If it was used, it would have to be set for unison on a G. The riff has a droning G throughout which gives it a bit of a Frequency Analyser vibe. If you have one, you should try it out and post a video 👍
Thanks for watching!
@@EddieClark I do have one, I will have a go and see if I can recreate it.
@@alnjgove8uifjbkelbfg post a link here when you do 👍
@@EddieClark th-cam.com/video/B6PwRyYRCX4/w-d-xo.html
This is a very rough video and the riff is not 100% but I think there's something to the Frequency Analyser.
@@alnjgove8uifjbkelbfg you might be on to something there. That sounds in the ball park.
Crazy under appreciated guitar channel, subbed
great video ! u even have the same haircut as billy lol
+Eddie Clark where in the chain is the muff? Looks like you gestured the order is JHS-synth-buzz tone-phaser-dist-deco-H9, is the muff before the JHS and loop 1 is empty with nothing in it to cut the noise?
It's first. It's not a programable switcher so all that matters is being able to que up the lead tone. 👍
Thank you for going so in depth on your videos. The buzz tone seems to be the missing ingredient. I was wondering if you have any recommendations for an alternative to the Dist2? Thanks again, would love to hear XYU from MCIS.
No worries and thanks for watching!The Dist2 is the best way really. The MXR Distortion + works ok in a pinch.