_ "This is hardly the place or the time". For Tywin, it's the perfect place and time! Notice how Tommen ignores her as well, taking the cue from grandpa. ;-)
@Jon's Dimension Tyrion is good but not as good as his father mainly because he kinder than his father but Tywin s ways got things done and handled Tyrions way cost Daenerys all her allies, she no long has Dorne, Iron Islands or High Garden.
This has always felt like such a wholesome scene to me. The wisdom being passed from Tywin to Tommen like a normal grandfather, Jaime reassuring him at the end, Joffrey laying there dead. Wonderful.
The only two people in the entirety of Westeros that care Joffrey is dead are Cersei and Jaime. And even still a part of Jaime has to be relieved, cause somewhere buried beneath all the bullshit with Cersei, Jaime is actually a decent human being; unlike Cersei.
KINGth3GReaT1 Even Cersei was surprised with that look and recognised her son's potential for greatness....or ability to be manipulated, whichever floats your boat!
The way Tywin broke the silence by cheerfully saying: "Your brother is dead! You know what this means?" :D And then goes on to insult Joffrey later on over Joffrey's body: "Your brother was not a wise king. Your brother was not a good king. If he had been, perhaps he would still be alive!"=D Then walks out with him and has "the talk" about the birds and the bees.
"Finally, competence not ruined by whoring and drunkness". I am also seeing here that he is plenty aware that his neglect and contempt of Tyrion is what drove him to his vices.
Teaching and enlightenment at a young age is a godsend. Especially when it comes to prepping someone for a ruling position. Tywin likely rarely saw potential in his children in regards to a possibly ruling anything, and to finally have a grandchild that was impressionable was his luck that he can finally pass on his leadership abilities.
@@rosabellaalvarez-calderon4586slow down there. Tywin may be wise but he is still a powerful medieval man. He was never conscious about the psychological consequences of his actions toward Tyrion imo.
@@angelantayhua3096 I think deep down he was aware of what he was doing, he just underestimated the consequences. His hatred far outweighs any wisdom he could have ever had regarding Tyrion, and to think that Tyrion is just like him is an insult to him so he can't bear it. Turns his head away. Just like he does to anything 'bad' that he can't psychologically stand, such as Cersei and Jamie. He'd rather not face the truth, and convinces himself it's not true when it comes to 'downfalls' in his family, he's too prideful, he knows Tyrion is intelligent and brutal but he'd rather turn his head away from likening himself to him.
"It's all relatively straightforward. You put your penis in her vagina and you move it in and out till you ejaculate. Then seen comes out and she gets pregnant. Make sure you get in from the front. Not the back."
The fact that we didn't get to hear Tywin tell Tommen about the birds and the bees and instead got that awkward scene with Jamie and Cersei is just a robbery to mankind.
It was hardly Tommen's fault. His stupid mother thought arming them was a good idea and caused 2 queens to be abducted, one his mother and one his wife and they had Lancel and Loras too. He avoided a severe bloodshed and protected his wife from shame while he lacked appropriate advisors with a small council full of sycophants. He and Kevan Lannister did their best on holding the tensions between common folk and ruler while Kevan and Margaery was doing their best on keeping him from Cersei's influence.
I like when Tommen asks, “What about strength?” He’s no longer just passively answering questions - he’s actively engaging in the exercise and trying to understand Tywin’s points, rather than just giving him the answer he wants.
Yeah, paired with him just straight up ignoring his mother when she tries to say 'not now,' I really got the sense that Tommen quite respected Tywin, and understood that they were working through an exercise where he wouldn't be humiliated or left hanging in the wind.
@@missbelled6700 Tommen also knew that Joffrey was a terrible person and he knew and respected his grandfather. Had Tywin not died, Tommen may very well have become a great king.
@@turtleheadedbadger the advice tywin gives is actually sound his motives may not be completely honest but he was happy how tommen answered his questions
@nah mate I disagree. Tywin is aware he is not going to live forever. In the books; his sister says something along the lines of, Tywin is aware Tyrion is his child that is the most similar to him and it pains him. The idea he has a non-disabled grandson that can be molded into his image, is genuinely a point of pride to him. Lannisters are driven by pride, if Tywin can mould the king into his image, that's something worthwhile to Tywin.
- But what makes a good king? Hmm? What is a good king's single most important quality? - Love? - Ah yes, love, a king must love and he must be loved. King Tommen was loved. And he loved his wife so much that he committed suicide when she died.
@@margarethmichelina5146 Ele sabia, os rumores foram espalhados desde a 2 temporada por Stannins Baratheon e Tywin não era estupido, ele não quis acreditar nem quando Cersei falou. Joffrey também sabia e confrontou Cersei por isso.
Yeah, Tywin is one of those characters I admire and want to shake hands with for being such an awesome genius...followed by punching them in the face for being such assholes and, in Tywins case, the lousiest father imaginable. Roose Bolton fits this description quite well too.
Alexander Sturnn You mention Roose Bolton: he was *far worse* _ starting with *how* he fathered Ramsay in the first place. I also don't think Tywin was as bad towards his children as Randyll Tarly, who threatened to kill his eldest son and banished him to the Wall. So I wouldn't agree that Tywin is the "lousiest father" in the GRRM world: there are plenty of contenders. Tywin was certainly harsh in manner, particularly towards Tyrion. But he still raised Tyrion as his son, with all the privileges that carried, despite his own feelings _ *and* despite the prejudice of his whole world towards disability. Tywin wouldn't be an acceptable 21st century Western father. But by medieval standards (on which most of the GRRM world is based), he wasn't un-typical of his social class. Most of us fans take Tyrion's side over his father's murder and the events preceding it. But there's no proof that Tywin was lying when he said that he never intended Tyrion to be executed. If he was, I don't see why he would have accepted Jaime's deal. Having said all the above, the one thing which *does* make Tywin a strong candidate for "lousiest father", not to say, "lousiest human being", is his treatment of Tysha _ and his involvement of Tyrion in that.
+5Mariner At the same time, he is making sure that Thommen will be controlable, maybe even a puppet. I dont disagree with you, just remember that that superficial reading of this scene is the kind of mentality that got someone like Ned Stark killed in the series.
***** Dont forgget who we are talking about. Tywin is a man who ordered the butchering of Targerian children by the end of Robert's rebelion, and who before that escentialy ruled the 7 kingdoms as the hand of the mad king.
Alexander Greyling Tywin wanted Tommen to end up a great king. His goal has always been to expand his family's greatness and Tommen's an important part of his family's legacy.
Tywin saying ''i'm not trying to trick you'' struck a cord with me. it became a staple in my professional life. used to train new hires at my old job and used to ask them questions to assess how much they had learned or if the rest of the process started to make sense to them. a lot of people got distressed or felt the need to say something clever, not many dared to say they didn't know or didn't remember. following it with a simple ''i'm not trying to trick you'' made them much more comfortable being honest, taking a guess or asking questions themselves without being worried about ulterior motives or ridicule. it is however kinda sad that so many came out of school guarded like that.
Yup, this is something I do with new hires at my current job. I make it clear that *I* don't know everything, so I certainly don't expect them to, which seems to put them at ease to tell me when they don't know something and need me to tell them. I'm there to get a paycheck, not to lord it over anyone just because I've been there longer.
You know what I love about this scene? Tywin’s killing two birds with one stone. He is definitely helping Tommen, and starting to mould him into a better King than Joffrey ever was. But at the same time, Tywin’s putting himself in a powerful position as the one the King turns to for advice, ensuring he’ll still get what he wants in the long run. He may be a ruthless prick, but he’s damn good at what he does.
@@LordWyatt Not to mention, what we see here isnt "Tywin the hand of the king" but "Tywin the grandfather of the king" It is not objectionable that listening to Tywin as an advisor, is the best thing for tommen to do in his position. Hes not so much trying to make tommen turn to himself, but rather to turn to those wiser than tommen, which includes himself. Infact, Tywin himself is the wisest man in the room so it would be natural for him to want the king to listen to his advice. On a sidenote, its worth noting the fact that tywin managed to turn a moment of mourning and sadness, into an educational lesson that distracts from the sadness, and instead makes tommen look forward towards what is ahead of him, and what he is capable of achieving.
He is also setting himself between Tommen and his mother. Joffrey was ruined by her; he wants to prevent that with Tommen. The rebuke to Cersei was subtle, but it was harsh. Basically, "You raised a monster to be King-- a bad and foolish King. I will do better with Tommen than you ever could."
@@LordWyatt You know what I DONT love about this scene? How it’s immediately followed by Jamie raping his twin sister in front of the corpse of their bastard incest child. Game of Thrones, everybody!
Everyone is saying Tywin is making sure Tommen will be his "puppet" but that isn't how I see it. It's a fact that Tywin is very smart and strategical and theres much Tommen could learn from him. Since Tywin is getting old I think he wants to instill as much wisdom into the young king as possible so that Tommen will continue to ensure Lannister dominance long after Tywin dies.
Well yeah, he's not insuring his own personal domination, because he's made it clear he doesn't care about individuals, including himself. He's obsessed with insuring the domination of his HOUSE.
Theriot6592 Technically that is wrong, because he thinks Tommen is a Baratheon. If he wanted to coach/educate someone it ought to be his heir (Tyrion or Cersei/Jaime). But Jaime is kingsguard, Tyrion he shuns and Cersei isn't smart enough plus none of them really listen to him so he only has Tommen.
Tommen would have been a puppet for a time but a puppet groomed by greatness. I agree that Tommen would have had far greater agency and strength after Tywin died.
When Tommen says wisdom and Tywin says yes you can hear the exhausted relief in his voice. He’s like finally someone who gets it. Someone I can work with. He sees Tommen as somebody who could actually be a good king and run things after he’s gone.
I noticed that too and the beautiful irony in that is that he always had someone to work with in Tyrion but Tywin was unable to take the advice he was giving to tommen about wisdom, otherwise typing would have removed emotion from logic and readied Tyrion to take heed of the family name
@@BlackDiamond2718 on the contrary, I think he sees that he can take him completely under his wing, rather than Joffrey who started an inconvenient and costly war because on a whim he wanted to see someone bleed for fun
Tywin subtly convinced Tommen that it is wise to always listen to him. He chose a moment before Tommen even realized he is going to be the next king. Such an excellent character.
Well it wasn’t a trick. Tom men should have actually listened to him and would have become a fantastic king. The problem is Tywin went against his own advice when it came to Tyrion. He wasn’t a wise father or a good father. If he was perhaps he would still be alive today
Considering the kingdom prospered when he was Hand and basically ran the kingdom himself, it would be wise to listen to him. Although he didn't just say "listen to me" but "listen to advisors who have experience on matters you don't".
I mean yeah Tywin was being self serving here but he's 100% correct. A wise king would've realized the cost of killing Ned was greater than any possible benefit. And as he explains, a wise king listens to his advisors who's job it is to know things and advise the king
Listening to Tywin is always the best situation Tywin for all his fault love his grandchildren and love his family he will always seek to strengthen the king and his family position instead of petty personal gain such a man as your hand you can hardly do better.
Love this scene. Love how Tywin is speaking directly to Tommen, and yet he's also addressing Cersei as well. He's pretty much saying, "You already fucked up raising one king. I'll be damned if you screw up this one." Tywin, why you so damn bad ass? Edit: To have this video recommended out of the blue and seeing a comment I made almost 8 years ago is a little trippy, not gonna lie. Glad to see the other civil discussion and comments in the replies!
I love how Tywin never says Tommen that he is wrong but instead quotes examples from history how they all were the wrong qualities that a king should possess. That ladies and gentlemen is how you should teach your child. Edit - I agree not the "wrong qualities" but definitely not the most important ones!
That's why dynasties that ruled for hundreds of year in history had always record royal's routine and meetings. Even today's civilization is fruit of many trials and errors of our ancestors.
Parents and teachers alike could learn a lot from this scene: don't just *say* they're wrong or incorrect, show it. Knowledge isn't the replacement of previous info, it is *building* upon it.
Tywin actually gives some really solid advice, here - and presents it in a really healthy way. Note that he never says "you're wrong" - he agrees that the qualities are important, but also gives some examples of how they might not be enough on their own. Then he highlights the importance of recognising that you don't know everything, and listening to experts in their field. I question his motives - but the advice itself is really good, and really well-delivered.
Tommen was the best candidate to carry on the Lannister legacy. He wasn't sadistic like Joffrey, he was a kind, likeable child who wanted everyone do be better off. These are important attributes for a king. Tywin saw that Tommen had more potential due to being young and open minded, meaning Tywin would be able to influence him in a way that strengthened house Lannister.
I don't think at all his motives are questionable. Yes of course he wants to teach Tommen to listen to his advisors so that he can influence him and use him as a tool. But Tywin is not a foolish man. He wants to groom him into a proper king because Tywin knows even he will not live forever. I am sure he will use him as a puppet as he is now to young to rule himself but when he becomes an adult slowly will give him more and more free space to make decisions on his own. So when Tywins time will come he will have made a proper King out of him. He wants to teach Tommen to become a strong leader not only because he is the next King and a Lannister. But also he is his grandson. I see nothing wrong with that.
It is a shame due to the book changes, especially after Tywin dies his brother Kevan had everything I plave to make Tomin the best king, until he was killed by Varis. Look at TH-cam for the audio. Book readers were waiting for that scene.
“King Robert was strong. He won the rebellion and crushed the Targaryen dynasty. And he attended three small counsel meetings in 17 years.” Absolute legend
Not really. Tywin was not as wise or smart as he thought he was. The absolute legend Tywin missed some things that was so profound that it had affected everything. His own daughter had her own husband killed by another one of his Lannister kin, who she has slept with, just like she slept with her own twin brother and had 3 children together with that brother. Making them double Lannisters with no true Baratheon blood. But then Jamie and his siblings were double Lannisters too.
King Robert ruled for 17 years, did what he wanted. Going to those meetings had killed almost everyone who went. Lannister rule was a blip and got the whole family killed and the capital burned. Congrats.
The way Charles Dance says “Yes!” At 2:39 is such incredible acting. So perfectly in character that it’s almost hard to describe what makes it impressive
Such a good way of putting this. So much of his dialogue is like this. Best example is when they’ve the battle of black water and he announces they’ve won. All time performance
I've always loved the emphasis he put on "Yes", small details like that in my opinion make Dance the best actor in the show, next to Dinklage
2 ปีที่แล้ว +189
I feel that this is so strong because tywin recognises what a big fuckup his whole family is. Jamie is headstrong and doesnt want to rule in casterly rock. Sersei is also headstrong and vile with barely any bearigna on strategy. Tyrion is... Well hated by tywin. Joffrey was evil and spoiled. This is tywin measuring how much of a hand he still has to play and once he sees Tommem to be just right to learn and showing some semblance of wisdom he just rages on like catching the fish pole with both hands and its like "fuck yeah we can still do this"
I just love how Tywin caught Tommen right in this precise moment of Cercei grief, before she can dig her claws in him and make him uncontrollable like Joffrey, Tywin made sure that the mistake will never be done again and starts teaching Tommen right away.
That's not consistent with her character. She was saying goodbye to her beloved son. She wasn't gonna fight her father then or try to control her other son right then and there. She'd never let anyone get between her and the one thing she loves above all else in that world........ Power😈
@@Kruppt808 I know she was grieving at that moment, but Tywin is a man of immediate action he wouldn't risk waiting, he started the process right away.
@Malthizar he is so obsessed with his name and his legacy we all know it, but read my comment again and try to understand, because what you said is totally irrelevant.
Yep! Totally awkward and unnecessary lol anyone could have discussed that with him. Tywin's advice for ruling was invaluable he should have just continued talking about that lmao
This is Tywin at his best here. The kindest he can be, when he says to Tommen “I think so as well” that he’ll be a good king you could see some semblance of affection from Tywin. This wasn’t manipulation so much as not letting Cersei spoil another king into being a cruel brat on the throne. He cares more about the legacy of the family and setting Tommen up for success.
Indeed, there is a fine line between manipulation and guidance. But for all the ruthless pragmatism of the man, I don’t think Tywin ever desired blood and chaos and unrest. He wanted stability for his house to thrive in, and he saw that not intervening with the last king very nearly led to unavoidable disasters. So now, he’s cutting away the manipulation of Cersei, stepping in and offering Tommen a new person to learn from. Notice how he never told the boy the answers, he set up the questions, gave the examples, but always he let Tommen come to his own conclusions.
I love the raw enthusiasm in Tywin's voice when Tommen says wisdom. "YES. Finally, young, malleable, and smart enough to know he needs to be smart. THIS I can work with!" - Ok, didn't expect all this so a clarification. No, I didn't just remix the similar comment, I saw the clip, and commented, pure coincidence. As others have said, it's an easy enough conclusion to come to and the only "solid link" in the wording is mostly because "*Blank* I can work with" is the most common way to get across the idea of molding someone or something into what you want it to be. No, I don't have any proof of that beyond "take my word for it". I saw the video, came to that conclusion, scrolled down to post it and moved on, didn't read other comments beyond one screen's worth and wouldn't have even known about the first one if not for it being pointed out. I don't really chase likes on TH-cam comments since, there's no easily accessible stat to keep track of them anywhere I can find, And I can't be arsed PERSONALLY "keeping score", so why bother? (And even if I did, doing the internet equivalent of "Telling someone else's joke, but louder, and getting laughs" is a scummy thing to do, credit were it's due, always.) But speaking of likes, that's my only real evidence for "I didn't scroll down very far before commenting" Either roughly 5k People watched the video, scrolled down through the comments at length, saw the "first" comment, and liked mine anyway, or roughly 5k people watched the video, scrolled down a little, liked my comment, and didn't go deeper than that, Which seems more likely of the two and is, again, pretty much what I did. (Speaking of, while I'm at it, thanks to everyone who liked I suppose, And "Great minds think alike" to the "Original" Comment. Wish the combination of those things didn't result in a Half-a-Year long "Debate" though.)
Problem is we have a mountain of debt and three angry dragons to deal with. I'm not saying Tommen is a bad choice. But we need someone with broad shoulders. No one is going to charge a dragon because they have been "paid" to.
"When Tommen says wisdom and Tywin says yes you can hear the exhausted relief in his voice. He’s like finally someone who gets it. Someone I can work with" - 4 year old comment "I love the raw enthusiasm in Tywin's voice when Tommen says wisdom. "YES. Finally, young, malleable, and smart enough to know he needs to be smart. THIS I can work with!"" - your comment Although there is a chance, that you just happened to write something, it seems very unlikely. What do you gain from copying a comment?
@@Bronzescorpion what do you gain from pointing it out. its not that complex of a comment that only one person could of thought of it. I'm guessing it makes you feel clever, like you discovered something no one else could? Even if he did copy it, I think the same emotion would be what drove you both.
@@Babidi111 It should be clear that I was curious about what makes a person copying an old comment, so what I would gain was hopefully an answer that satisfied my curiosity. It doesn't make sense to expect that albertjester was looking for the same with their comment, so it is really weird to suspect that we are driven by the same emotion as we are most likely to have two vastly different reasons to post our comment. Furthermore, the problem isn't the complexity of the comment, it is the extremely similar wording. This is incredibly unlikely to happen by chance. So while they could indeed get the same thought separately, for them to word it the same way, is the mystery that caused my curiosity. As for your question, no, I don't feel clever for have found it out, as it is in no way hidden, but there in plain sight. I also didn't make any indication that I thought so, so why are you assuming this of me?
One thing I find really interesting about this scene is how gentle he is with Tommen. You can tell he is kind of aware he messed up with Jaime and Cersei, and has actually learned from his mistakes there. He was too direct in his methods, too overbearing. He was a pretty abysmal parent and I think at some level he realizes he absolutely failed both of the children he cared about. So, with Tommen, he’s getting a second crack at it. A chance to make a proper Lannister heir that will keep the house going after he’s gone, and one without all the myriad of complexes he’s left his own children with.
There's also a stereotype of people being less strict with their grandkids than they were with their kids - maybe this sort of thing is where it came from, when the individual realizes the mistakes they made with raising their kids and doesn't want the grandkids to be the same way
@@BruceWayne-fj9bm Jamie was still a screw up. overblown arrogance at fighting well in a tournament and signing himself up to serve the crown instead of his family at the age of 18.
@@aunthaggis8856 Uh, what? Jaime's personality had nothing to do with his getting in to the Kingsguard. Nor did he win a tourney. Cersei wanted him at court so they could continue having sex and was the one who gave the idea to Aerys. Aerys then likely did it to spite Tywin, because Aerys was a madman. And while Jaime might ahve been able to refuse (it's unclear whetehr this is possible), Cersei had already convinced him that it was a great idea. Not to mention, young Jaime was idealistic. He really admired the Kingsguard and probbaly loved the opportunity to join their ranks.
You can see when they’re going up the stairs Tywin is holding Tommen’s arm like an excited and happy grandfather that’s going to hang with and teach his grandson. Wholesome scene.
Charles Dance as Tywin is just exceptional. He commands the scene and steals the show every time. Truly a great portrayal by a very skilled actor. Tywin choosing to educate his new King over the corpse of his former King, who both happen to be his grandsons is just elite.
This is what S-tier writing looks like. Notice how much is accomplished in this one 4 minute scene. It introduces us to Tommen and gives insight into his personality and values, further characterizes Tywin as a man who values wisdom above all else, foreshadows the rise of the faith militant when Tommen’s first answer is ‘Holiness is the most important quality in a king.’, expands on the world building of the show, and advances the plot by previewing that Tommen will need to be married, and Tywin will be his advisor.
Yeah. It's also implied that Tywin would have molded Tommen into a genuinely capable king who would continue to rule competently long after Tywin's death.
Yes I would also say that this scene shows that Tywin was cold, pragmatic politician - discussing politics above dead Joffrey, that's rough... Joffrey dies and with a blink of the eye Tywin adjusts his political approach to new reality. And also we have to mention silent Cersei who is just standing there and mourns the death of her own beloved son while everybody around her don't give a two shits about him anymore. He was asshole, yes, but it was her own son for gods sake - and by the look which Tywin gives her when he takes Tommen away you can clearly tell that Tywin is giving a hard lesson to Cersei aswell, telling her- see you spoiled Joffrey so much, his death is your own doing, I am taking your other son away from you so you don't fuck him up aswell... Teaching Cersei a lesson through teaching Tommen lesson. Tywin is political genius...... This scene tells us so much within few seconds.. Truely a master piece like many other scnes in early seasons of GoT..
@@pupper5580every man has a blind spot. In this case, Tywin's blind spot/weakness is the thought of Tyrion possibly not being his. Even the wisest of men let their anger blind them from time to time as noted by and in Tywin.
Its a shame that Tommen was a very unlikeable character. At least with Joffrey we knew we couldn't take him serious because he wasn't really a powerful king he was just a kid pretending to be one and Tywin made sure to put him in that place. Tommen was just fucking horrible...
Syryu As terrible and brutal a person as we know Tywin to be (and we hate him for killing Robb), he probably, actually, would have made Tommen into a good, wise king.
***** The only sense Margaery ever talks is sense her grandma talked into her. And I don't think Olenna is planning to talk sense into Tommen. She wants Margaery to manipulate him as well, so...
SealDude Ruthless because of his having foundations in the REAL world. He saw war for what it was, and was willing to do whatever it took to win. That said, he was not deliberately cruel - he did not take any 'pleasure' in the suffering he caused, but he caused it as necessary to protect his family.
2:00 when Tywin calls Robert Baratheon “King Robert” instead of “your father” it solidifies to me that he definitely knows about Cersei and Jamie and just chooses to not directly acknowledge it
I have long believed that Tywin knew. That said, it is my belief that Robert knew as well. Both demonstrated the capacity to deny knowledge of uncomfortable truths.
Tywin had an iron fisted grasp on the family after Joanna died; I personally find it hard to believe he did not know. I also agree with Graham’s comment. Robert may have been meh at kinging, but he was also a warrior, which means he had to be at least somewhat observant in his life. I’m sure he at least had suspicions.
Yeah, Tywin is much too sharp to not have known. Being 'blind' to something so obvious, when he was razor-sharp in all other matters, would be inconsistent with the character.
I think it's because being affirmed by someone who is as experienced, cunning and mostly cold as Tywin, oftentimes even dismissive to inferiors, is an ennoblement in itself - just as well shown in the scenes between him and Arya. Very well written and acted.
It's the same "yes!" you'd say after winning a huge bet, a mixture of elation and relief. Tywin was betting all his hopes on Tommen, and when the boy shows genuine care and competence, it's like Tywin is internally saying "thank goodness, finally someone who's not a complete idiot!".
@@sikwilly45 there are hints of Cersei and Jaime being Aerys's aswell, usually I'm not a fan of the everyone is a secret Targ theories but I'd rather the twins be the Targ bastards, Cersei has Mad Queen vibes, that seems to be her arch in future books, she will probably be the one to burn King's Landing instead of Dany, the part where she burns the Tower of the Hand and all the symbolism with the wildfire, even her eyes are described as the same color at some point, it's just perfect if she was the Mad King's daughter, Jaime in the other hand would be a kinslayer, just like Tyrion, besides already being a kingslayer, both having killed their dads, and considering his hatred towards Aerys and overall feelings towards Targaryens it would be poetic, one of the reason why he killed Aerys was because he asked him to bring him his father's head, imagine if he killed his actual father for a man that is not his father, Genna does mention he is not Tywin's son after all, and of course there's the incest, very Targaryen of them, also you gotta love irony of Tyrion, the hated son, being the only child of Tywin, to me Tyrion not being Tywin's validates his hatred and actions towards him but we'll have to wait and see, maybe they all are just Lannisters, not everyone can be a secret Targ
Everyone is focusing on Tywin's reaction to Tommen reaching the conclusion about wisdom. What I find more intriguing is Cersei's subtle reaction. You can see the exact moment she realizes that Tommen is different from Joffrey. He listens to what Tywin says and genuinely reflects on it. She understands he will truly be a good king, unlike his predecessors.
Also, Cersei was too busy spoiling Joffrey so she didn't care much to her last 2 children. She didn't even send any letters to Myrcella in Dorne to even ask if she's okay.
I feel that within the moment there’s another reaction too.. a deeper and more sinister one, where she realizes her son can recognize these kinds of traits and will one day embody them through experience. That means less opportunity for control, less opportunity to win. To continue being a horrible person, he would’ve had to be complicit with his mother or somehow worse than her (Joffrey). She’d have to face him or end him one day.
What I like about this is that this looks kind of wholesome. But also shows two things: Tywin wastes no time to start training the spare and he immediately asserts control over him. What he says about a king listening to their advisors IS true but it's also true that usually it's an excuse to have the ruler as your puppet.
Still, Tywin is not some selfish maniac desperately trying to get power for himself. What he wants most of all is for his family's legacy to remain strong and continue, he truly wants Tommen to become a good wise king after his demise, as Tommen is his last chance at raising a good king.
He has to. Otherwise, Cersei gets control early on like with Joffrey..which is a mistake. Cersei is way worse counseling than Tywin who is one of the best hands ever
He wasn't trying to make him a puppet, he was trying to steer him on the right path before Cersei got her claws into him and sent him down the same doomed path she sent Joffery. Tywin didn't want a puppet, he wanted a worthy successor to himself, a king who would ensure the Lannisters legacy after he's gone, hence why he wasted no time whatsoever in taking Tommen under his wing.
I love how BOTH Tywin and Tommen ignore Cersei's interruption and keep talking like she said nothing. It shows that Tommen drops all respect he has for his mother (if there is any) when talking to his grandfather.
He knows the hierarchy. If you want to learn how to be a strong family, listen to grandad. If you want to learn how to survive everything and everyone listen to momma. He listened to the wrong people, Tywin, his wife, high sparrow. His mom had the survival instincts of a cockaroach.
Yeah what about Stannis, they share the same contempt for pleasure, but surprisingly for different reasons. Tywin is all about pride and legacy whereas Stannis is just completely dominated by the sense of duty and responsibilities. In the books it is implied that Stannis does not care for the Iron Throne for other reason besides that it is his duty (and legitimate right) to have it
and a faithless tool. You don't see Tywin giving up on his gods and converting to some burning douche or the drowning ass -w- at least Tywin will admit his lack of care for those in a higher plane of spirit! XD lol!
Olenna and Tywin were both disciplined. Olenna flipped after the death of her grandchildren. Tywin was always irrational towards Tyrion who was best suited to carrying on his legacy.
This is my fav scene with Tywin. He's so proud and relieved at the same time. He knows The boy's answers may be naive, but they're not stupid. And he's smart enough to figure out the point Tywin was trying to make. He's humble, respectful, and smart for his age. And all his previous answers even though they were incorrect, still proved he'd take the throne seriously. Unlike all the other pathetic disappointments that came before him.
The fact that Tommen's first answer to Tywin's question of "What makes a good king?" was holiness should have set off a million red flags. This thinking, never being corrected due to Tywin being killed prematurely, is what would cause all the issues with The Sparrows later on in the series.
Really hits you how much Tyrion's choices cause massive problems down the line. Saving Catelyn was the noble thing to do but the Red Wedding would've been avoided and the coming war might've been lessened in terms of tragedies. Killing Tywin was the fair thing to do after all he did to Tyrion but with him around Tommen would've been steered away from the Faith Militant stuff that ultimately got him and his wife killed, and got Cersei put in charge.
@@thebeavpercabethftw9604 In my opinion it actually shows how much *Catelyn* fucked everything up and caused so many problems down the line. It's less apparent in the show, but in the book she was so full of herself and her belief in her abilities to rule and understand the nuances in politics, but when it actually came down to it almost every major mistake made by Starks and the friends of the North were directly attributable to her, her poor advice, or her absence when needed.
@@stupidnamefilter When you put it like that, it kinda reflects Cersei's actions into it as well. Both of them are impulsive, stubborn, short-sighted and overly emotional and worst of all only overconfident in themselves. One thing I personally like the theme of these characters, Catelyn, Cersei and Daenaerys they all let their close-minded perspective get the better of them. Catelyn is more tame, Daenaerys is aggressively benevolent and Cersei is hateful and vindictive.
Firstly it is not Tommen's actions but rather Cersei's action that empowered the sparrows. Actually, Margaery had a great influence in making that alliance with the sparrows and Tommen's sudden turn to holiness. To be fair that was the most prudent thing to do, not just to avoid walking naked in public, but to keep some semblance of the crown's influence among the masses. Also, she would have wanted to use the sparrows to finally end Cersei's rule and influence.
Really though, that's the nicest thing anyone could actually say about Joffrey. If Tywin was being totally honest, he would have said "Your brother was a demented, cowardly lunatic."
@@TheStapleGunKid and his uncle killed him. Lol just joking , it was actually the rival family from High Garden but I'm gonna still accuse my own son. I'm sure that won't come back to shoot me on the privy
How savage of Tywin " your brother was an incurable asshole, try not to be like him while we discuss future matters in front of your grieving mother and his corpse. Your brother is nothing but the past. Thank God. Come along..."
Tywin just seems so happy with Tommen. Finally, a king who will respect what more knowledgable people have to say but also a king who has a drive to better himself so that he'll be okay when Tywin is gone. It makes Tywin dying not soon after a real tragedy. His death robbed everyone of a chance at a great king.
Great? Eh, depends on how much of Tywin's advice Tommen listened to. He would certainly be a powerful and savvy king, yes, but listening to Tywin too much would turn him into an iron fisted and incredibly cruel king.
@@juniperrodley9843 I wouldn't say cruel more like cunning, as even Tywin knows when to work with his enemies, cruel would be like Joffrey just doing whatever he likes without caring about the consequences.
a father should protect his children.... well if he had murdered his daughter and his youngest son he would still be alive, the scept would still be standing and tommen would still be alive and rule.
The story of the Three Kings that Tywin tells may echo the downfall of the other three leaders, Stannis, Jon, and Daenerys, in Season 5. Stannis relies on Melisandre's faith to rule and fight battles. He ends up killing his own daughter and his men and he dies fighting a battle in a rush because they have nothing left to eat. Just like the pious king who starves himself to death. Jon was a righteous leader who saved the Widlings but didn't realize what that kind of decision would cause and ended up killed by his Night's Watch brothers. Like the just king killed by his brother. Daenerys relied entirely on her strength (her dragons, her armies) but is unable to govern and dislikes it (like Robert who never attended council meetings) and confused winning/conquering with governing. What makes Meereen sink into chaos at the end of season 5. Just like Robert who is murdered by his own wife and his country plunges into a bloody civil war.
I didn’t know Cersei sent the pig that killed Robert😳 (I know she didn’t but I heard the Lannisters were involved somehow, if not with the pig then afterwards)
I love at 2:40-2:42 that not only Tywin is thoroughly pleased by his answer but then even Cersei looks over and you can tell she’s so proud and maybe a little nervous that her boy is actually showing the aptitude to be a good king.
@@turtleheadedbadger honestly probably a good move, letting tywin take the reins for tommen until he comes of age and learns how to rule would probably be better for EVERYONE
The truth is no matter what! it's tywin who was in control Whether it was joffrey or even tommen Remember when in the small council Tyrion put subtly joffrey to his place And joffrey said "how dare you i am the king the king" Tywin says "A king doesn't has to say i am a king" Then joffrey open his mouth to perhaps spit some truth Tywin Straight glare at joffrey Then tywin ask to send baby king to his chamber cercei took joffrey as she knows what would happen if she doesn't do so lmao 😂 🤣 If joffrey would run his mouth more Tywin himself would might even send joffrey to hell.
This has got to be the closest thing to the Lannisters being wholesome to each other. I know Tywin was sowing the seeds to manipulate Tommen but at the same time, he just seems like a decent grandfather and mentor. Also, Jaime's short exchange with Tommen was nice too, he just seems genuinely looking forward to supporting his nephew-son
***** Pretty much why Pycelle told Aerys to open the gates of King's Landing... but also why Tyrion had it out for Pycelle (hence the "canary trap" of the three marriage proposals for Myrcella): because he sensed that Pycelle's so-called loyalty to House Lannister only extended to Tywin personally.
In the books Stannis remembers his first encounter with Tywin. Him and Robert were children when they went to the capital with Lord Baratheon. They entered the throne room and sitting in it was a formidable man with blond hair that looked like the truest king there could be. It was actually Tywin sitting on it, acting as regent while Aerys was away
@@AlejandroSanchez-pl6jw The debt came from Little finger IIRC. Robert was too dumb and gullible to notice. And so was everyone else. Baelish is loved by everyone in the books because he was thought to be good with money and a miracle worker. The truth is he was excessively borrowing for the purpose of that image. And to ascend from the inevitable chaos from Braavos. Chaos is a ladder. He is also thought to be simple, especially since he comes from a humble house in the Fingers. Loyal and simple and good with the cash. In the books nobody besides Varys (probably) and Sansa knows how slimy and cunning Baelish is. Jaime even considers him a serious candidate for Hand of the King. This is all from memory though. I'm probably getting some detail wrong.
everybody talks about Peter Dinklage(best one) and Lena Headey but holy shit Charles Dance was good throughout this entire series, one of the best portraits of a villain/antagonist in modern TV.
+Alexander Greyling he's not an antihero, Punisher is an antihero, Tyrion would be the closest thing to an anti-hero in the show. Tywin is just a guy, sometimes a bad guy who wants his legacy to be legendary.
Seeing Cersei slowly realizing how his father, finally in the capital and in charge if his role if King Advisor, stole the power AND his children from her is amazing. Tywin Lannister is an amazing character
I see that some people think this is Tywin's way of establishing control over Tommen. Maybe, but I think Tywin legitimately wants to see Tommen be successful. A successful reign is in the interest of the kingdom and more importantly the House Lannister. Tywin gains nothing by Tommen failing. To me more telling is his advice to seek counsel even after he comes of age. Again, some might say this is Tywin ensuring he has Tommen under his control for a long time. But Tywin himself admits that he won't be alive for very long. I think Tywin recognizes in Tommen someone with the potential to be a good king, and for the House Lannister to have a popular king in its history book is perhaps the best legacy Tywin can leave.
I agree, specially since in the way he addresses Tommen, it isn't condescending as when he talk to Joffrey . And he expects Tommen to figure out his answers instead of flat out telling him.
I think this scene shows Tywin's respect for Tommen, he isn't rude or condescending, he just lets Tommen think through his answers and work things out for himself. I rather like Tommen, he seems like a very sweet young man with a good disposition who could be a wise, just and strong king. He is everything Joffrey was not, thoughtful, friendly and polite.
Imagine Tywin giving Jaime "the talk" (before he joined the Kingsguard). I bet Jaime thought something along the lines "Lmao dad, been there done that, with Cersei".
What I like about this scene is that Tywin doesn't tell Tommen he's wrong. He let's Tommen draw his own conclusions. And Tywin doesn't say that the other attributes were bad to have, only that wisdom is the most important.
The sad part is that Tommen had the temperament to actually become a fine king. Not quick to judge, able to learn, think and listen and Tywin would probably be a great teacher to him, however offcourse tywins biggest flaw is underestimating Tyrion and Tommen would go down because of cercei herself. But yeah, i think Tommen could have become an actual fine king
Tywin’s death and Cersei’s stupidity ruined what chance he had. Tywin would’ve never let the High Sparrow gain power and Cersei stupidly thought she could use them to crush the Tyrells - an alliance Tywin knew he needed to keep to maintain control.
Given that he kills himself later on, I don't think Tommen had it in him to be king, even though he had good qualities. Also can't rule if you're dead 😅
@@EmmaDilemma039 well, he killed himself in reaction to his mothers cruelty, the death of his beautiful wife and the fact he then understood that he in fact didn’t have any form of power and was just everyone’s pawn
I love the gentleness in his voice when he says "I'm not trying to trick you " I think he's manipulating Tommen a bit, knowing that a little kindness from a family member will go a long way to get Tommen's heart and minspd, bu also that he sincerely wants Tommen to feel all right about being honest, after being mocked by Joffrey and unsure if Cersei.
When the most important person in your family is talking serious business, you'd know he'd be nervous on how to answer. Not wanting to let down his mother or talk out of turn right in front of his dead brother. Tywin has to reassure he is trying to impart....... yes wisdom on him snd not berate or talk down to him.
"What do they all lack?" "A good story?" "Ser Bronn, please station more soldiers outside of my son Tyrion's cell; he's evidently found a way to talk to my grandson, and now poor Tommen's mind is rotting."
I feel like Tywin was legit excited that his idiotic, cruel grandson was finally dead and he could focus on trying to raise a king that actually listens to his advisors. Tommes was really gullible, but I feel like with Tywins guidance he would have become a really good king, because he is actually willing to LEARN.
Between Tywin and Margaery Tommen could have been shaped into the best ruler Westeros had had in a long time. It’s a bit of a shame Tywin got shot on the shitter and Margaery was obliterated when Cersei gave up on the Game and threw the table. Tywin’s kids fuck up everything they are involved in.
@@hresvelgr7193 But in the end, he would be controlled by those two. Is that a bad thing? If he was too inept on his own, then no. But ultimately he is only as strong as those pulling the strings. And when the string pullers were gone, he totally collapsed and that collapse brought even more ruin upon the kingdom
@@cylontoaster7660 That’s because he wasn’t an adult yet. If he had been properly taught and prepared for the position he would’ve been a good king. He was essentially still a student, but the fact that he was willing to learn gave him potential.
@@cylontoaster7660 But we don't know that. If Tywin and Margaery were both still alive and fine, there could have been a balance, Tommen could have been taught and trained to stand on his own. He was a kid, he had time to learn and grow, that's what kids do, and eventually he could have had the time to be independent in his own thinking and take in everything he's learned around him that even without Tywin and Margaery he could have been fine. The reason he was "inept" was because he was still young and he hadn't even had the chance to really learn before they were gone.
She’s proud that he had potential to be something that Joffrey couldn’t be in his dreams, but scared that it would mean she couldn’t have any true power
Tywin Lannister was the only one who truly understood the way everything works, yet maintained a focused goal that benefitted his Family instead o fhimself. If Tywin Lannister and Eddard Stark were both given the chance the rule during a peaceful time, I believe the result of their rule would be largely the same good outcome; Tywin would maintain Lannister control because he knows that too much change creates "chaos and stupidity", and as well that good policy keeps the gentry happy and docile. Eddard would rule justly and with fair policy that any who did not care for power would love, though if he did not properly dispose of threats to Stark rule then the Starks themselves would be disposed of {as we have seen happen}. In the end, Eddard's temperament would be an excellent follow-up to Tywin {if they were of the same House}. They are decidedly the two greatest Men of A Song of Ice and Fire-- nevermind this pisspot High Fantasy nonsense about dragons and white walkers.
He's the reason I even bothered to watch the show. I started off trying to avoid the Game of Thrones phenomenon, seeing it as another fantasy. Then I heard Tywin speak. Then I was hooked.
Tywin is too charismatic, even for a villain. I would be a lannister troop for him. I'd also be a troop for Tyrion as well. westerland troops are damn fine soldiers. It's just the commanders you have to worry about. If Tywin could've looked past Tyrion imperfections. They'd be an unstoppable Force. Now without either of them. Just like Podric Payne, I would defect from the lannister army.
Tywin Lannister is not evil. He is intelligent. In the world of GOT one has to be cruel to survive. Tywin is acting in the best interests of himself and his family, even when he acts cruelly he's only doing so to achieve a goal. He is not psychotically cruel, he doesn't find cruelty amusing. People who think Tywin will groom Tommen into a psychotic like Joeffery are idiots. If Tywin was left to raise Tommen he would make him into someone like himself. An intelligent, calculating, and politically savy king who knows how to play the game of thrones.
Theriot6592 You should give George R. R. Martin more credit for his understanding of Politics and history. Politics in the Pre-industrialized world was very much like GOT. One could make an argument that modern day politicians are as ruthless if not more ruthless that GOT ever was.
deadbutmoving Um...yeah, that's my point. People justify moral bankruptcy by saying "that's just how the world works," not realizing that how the world works is decided by the people living in it.
Theriot6592 We do realize that people make it so. And there is nothing you or anyone can do about it. If you have some magical solution to make the world a better place please by all means do it. For the rest of us mortals we will just have to make due with the crazy world we imperfect humans have created for ourselves. In the end even you will be forced into that position.
deadbutmoving Goodness inspires more goodness, evil and selfishness inspires more evil and selfishness. If you're only concerned with personal success, by all means go with the current state of the world. That's easy. It's difficult, risky, and courageous to try to be the one to actually take initiative and make the world better. And since Tywin is born into a position of power, his actions have more consequences than anyone else.
I love how they go on and talk about what makes a good King, with absolutely no regard for Joffery. Then his real father (Jamie) arrives all happy and then rapes his mom while desecrating Joffrey's grave. lmao...
I think the reason Tywin did it there and then was to get Tommen away from Cersei ASAP. Consider how fucked up Joffrey turned out to be cause of how his mother pampered him
It was a perfect send off for Joffrey, how absolutely nobody gave a shit about him. He was a piece of trash, died like a trash, and he ended in a trash can - a nice coffin.
"What makes a good king or queen?" "Confidence." "Yes, Queen Daeneyrs was confident that she can break the wheel and make the world a better place. So she conquer it with a dragon and an army of barbarian horsemen and eunuch warriors. In the end, she was murdered by her own nephew to prevent the world from burning."
My favorite part of this scene if Tywin isn't just telling Tommen he's wrong, he's giving examples of past kings and how they were led to their graves.
And thus Tywin, one of the coldest men in Westeros... manages to be a better father to his grandson than the boy's 'father' and 'uncle'. How utterly, utterly sad. I wish they would have done more with this, showing Tywin trying to do good towards his grandson to make up for the mistakes he made with Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion (letting two do whatever they wanted for too long and showing no interest in being a father to the third)
Nathan L I blame it on Cersei, she never once disciplined Joffery or made any real attempt to stop his behavior. She was like any other parent with a sociopathic child, believing that one day s/he would grouw out of it. I have no doubt that if someone had not interfered, she would have probably warped Tommen the same way.
This scene is brilliant. Tywin recognizes the failure of his daughter and steps in. She was meant to guide Geoffrey and turn him into a good king. She failed to be a mother and let him do what he wanted. In comes Tywin. Cersei rebells at first "this is not the time or place" he ignores her. He comes in, and removes Tommen from cersei's side, and leaves her there, standing next to her failure of a son.
is at scenes like these that i applaud them. This one, th chair, one, the conversation between Cersei and Robert.. but there are others that you just want to kick them in the ass -.-
A lot of ppl say this is a touching scene between a grandfather sharing his wisdom with his boy-king grandson. This moment is far more than that. This moment is actually Tywin maneuvering to solidify his position with the new king. "You need wise advisors," all the while showing Tommen how wise his grandfather is. This all culminates when they walk off, with Tommen in Tywin's arm being lead out, Tywin's place is secured.
Of course, there was self interest involved. But, he was genuinely pleased when Tommen quickly realized the importance of wisdom,Tywin alludes more than once to a sense of being aware that he was old and running out of time. He wanted to groom Tommen into a good and wise king as part of his legacy.
Tywin: "Your brother is dead. Do you know what that means?"
Tommen: "He was an asshole?"
Tywin: "Yes, he was an asshole."
🤣🤣
Now THAT’S wisdom!!!😂😂😂😂
The only one who shed tears at Joffrey's funeral was Cersei. Anyone else was just from laughing too hard or joy.
"And how did he become such an asshole?"
"Mom?"
"Indeed."
* Tywin beheads Cersei *
Everyone is happy.
The end.
@@TheRepentanceProject thf😮😅ihoihuhiihiuhoihihoihihoihihoîguoguhoihihihoihihihoihb
Tywin looks at Cersei like "I'm taking this one before you screw him up too."
_ "This is hardly the place or the time".
For Tywin, it's the perfect place and time!
Notice how Tommen ignores her as well, taking the cue from grandpa. ;-)
He would've made Tommen a good king.
@Jon's Dimension da enerys and Jon need someone similar to Tywin with them
@Jon's Dimension Tyrion is good but not as good as his father mainly because he kinder than his father but Tywin s ways got things done and handled Tyrions way cost Daenerys all her allies, she no long has Dorne, Iron Islands or High Garden.
He's doesn't even look at her. He doesn't even acknowledge that she's even there.
Good.
This has always felt like such a wholesome scene to me. The wisdom being passed from Tywin to Tommen like a normal grandfather, Jaime reassuring him at the end, Joffrey laying there dead. Wonderful.
Everybody ignoring Cersei. Beautiful.
Lol
Holup
I agree. The closest to tenderness that we will get from TL.
LOL
Lena Headley was great in this scene. You can tell she's quietly furious because Tywin clearly doesn't really care that Joffrey is dead.
😂😂😂😂
😂😂
Not only not caring Joffrey is dead, but likely quite relieved by it too
Because Tywin was the real power in Westeros, not Joffrey.
The only two people in the entirety of Westeros that care Joffrey is dead are Cersei and Jaime.
And even still a part of Jaime has to be relieved, cause somewhere buried beneath all the bullshit with Cersei, Jaime is actually a decent human being; unlike Cersei.
Tommen: "Wisdom."
Tywin: "Yess(finally SOMEONE gets it...someone fucking gets it)sss."
Hahahahaha!
Tywin: YESS(this one isn't a vicious dumbass like Joffrey)SSS!
Tywin YESSSSSS(this one hopefully won't bang Myrcella)SSSSSSSS
DrMattaru they are dating in real life (should shrug)
KINGth3GReaT1 Even Cersei was surprised with that look and recognised her son's potential for greatness....or ability to be manipulated, whichever floats your boat!
"he attended 3 small council meetings in 17 years" holy shit that's hilarious
Robert was just a hilarious package tbf
Robert just didn't give a fuck lol
"Winter may be coming but the same cannot be said for my brother."
Too busy "killing whores and fucking boars."
One of which was under Ned's stewardship lol !
"Was killed by his own brother"
Tomen looks at jofferys body
"Don't think I'll have that problem grandpa
😂😂😂😂😂
Some may say his mother indirectly killed him
Yeah no shit
End Boss Eleven It's a semi-sarcastic joke you imbecile
ADjap HBootys he started it you moron
The way Tywin broke the silence by cheerfully saying: "Your brother is dead! You know what this means?" :D
And then goes on to insult Joffrey later on over Joffrey's body: "Your brother was not a wise king. Your brother was not a good king. If he had been, perhaps he would still be alive!"=D
Then walks out with him and has "the talk" about the birds and the bees.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall for Tywin Lannister giving the "Birds and Bees" talk to Tommen.
Too bad Joffrey couldnt hear this to learn about his relative insignificance
I wouldn't call it an insult, Tywin was simply stating the truth
It's more of an insult to Cersei, she pretty much indirectly killed Joffrey
@@TheeWorldsGreatest Imagine if it was King Robert doing the talk 🤣
"Why you need a queen"..."To further the family line. Do you know how that happens?"
"Stick 'em with the pointy end?"
"Exactly."
Zainthey Yessssss.
"it's all relatively straightforward"
It starts straightforward. Then straightbackward. Then straightforward again. Repeat until heir.
Lmao brilliant, just brilliant!
I love this comment section.
I just love Tywin’s “Yes!” It’s as if to say “Finally, competence!”
"Finally, competence not ruined by whoring and drunkness". I am also seeing here that he is plenty aware that his neglect and contempt of Tyrion is what drove him to his vices.
Teaching and enlightenment at a young age is a godsend. Especially when it comes to prepping someone for a ruling position. Tywin likely rarely saw potential in his children in regards to a possibly ruling anything, and to finally have a grandchild that was impressionable was his luck that he can finally pass on his leadership abilities.
@@rosabellaalvarez-calderon4586slow down there. Tywin may be wise but he is still a powerful medieval man. He was never conscious about the psychological consequences of his actions toward Tyrion imo.
@@angelantayhua3096 I think deep down he was aware of what he was doing, he just underestimated the consequences. His hatred far outweighs any wisdom he could have ever had regarding Tyrion, and to think that Tyrion is just like him is an insult to him so he can't bear it. Turns his head away. Just like he does to anything 'bad' that he can't psychologically stand, such as Cersei and Jamie. He'd rather not face the truth, and convinces himself it's not true when it comes to 'downfalls' in his family, he's too prideful, he knows Tyrion is intelligent and brutal but he'd rather turn his head away from likening himself to him.
He was genuinely surprised that after all this time, finally one of his grandchildren turned out to be worth supporting.
I love how nobody (except Cersei) cares that Joffrey is gone :)
No one mourns the wicked...
You're right though, mother and child is the strongest and most unbreakable human relationship that exists.
Even his own brother lol.
I like to think Myrcella brushed off the news as soon as she heard it and went off to play with the sands.
Ka mos Joffrey treatened to kill Tommen cat and make him eat him. It really doesnt surprise me that he doesnt care.
Duncan Morgan even she doesnt care enough to not fuck her brother in front if his dead corpse
"A wise king knows what he knows and what he doesn't." This line always stuck with me.
Me too. I'm gonna use that wisdom when I become king.
@@Rodytur10me too.
@@Rodytur10I’m going to use that wisdom when I overthrow you
@@psilocosmo6918 its appliccable to anyone, not just the king...It's similar to "know your own strengths and weaknesses"
@@mikeg2491 You can have the thrown when I die in my own bed at the age of 80 with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my cock.
Tywin: Your brother is dead. Do you know what that means?
Tommen: ...That we must have a celebration?
Tywin: Fuck yeah.
"Your brother is dead, do you know what that means?"
"Never undercook the seafood?"
Exasperated Tywin: *YEES!*
what that means?
- Yes, we should all start wearing masks and respirators. Covid is coming!
PARTY!!!!
Both ends it with a dab
Honestly, I'd pay to hear Tywin Lannister come give "The Talk" to a bunch of kids.
Tyson's Ted Talk
Crowdfund Tywin's TED Talk
"it's all relatively straightforward"
I think it'd go " you see a man and woman have a duty in the privet courts of their bed."
"It's all relatively straightforward.
You put your penis in her vagina and you move it in and out till you ejaculate. Then seen comes out and she gets pregnant.
Make sure you get in from the front. Not the back."
The fact that we didn't get to hear Tywin tell Tommen about the birds and the bees and instead got that awkward scene with Jamie and Cersei is just a robbery to mankind.
What birds scene? Is it in the books?
"Has anyone explained the details to you? It's all pretty straight forward." I can't help but laugh at that.
When I was younger they just called that the talk. LMAO......
He could have just stayed for a little longer to watch the process being explained without words 😂
@@amandine2239 "The birds and the bees", he was talking about sex
His first guess being "Holiness" is quite the foreshadow for how he let the Sparrows steamroll him
It was hardly Tommen's fault. His stupid mother thought arming them was a good idea and caused 2 queens to be abducted, one his mother and one his wife and they had Lancel and Loras too. He avoided a severe bloodshed and protected his wife from shame while he lacked appropriate advisors with a small council full of sycophants. He and Kevan Lannister did their best on holding the tensions between common folk and ruler while Kevan and Margaery was doing their best on keeping him from Cersei's influence.
@@maximus4919Cersei's biggest problem was that she thought she was smarter than she really was
I like when Tommen asks, “What about strength?” He’s no longer just passively answering questions - he’s actively engaging in the exercise and trying to understand Tywin’s points, rather than just giving him the answer he wants.
facts. although i was wise it would have been nice to have some perception skills too
Yeah, paired with him just straight up ignoring his mother when she tries to say 'not now,' I really got the sense that Tommen quite respected Tywin, and understood that they were working through an exercise where he wouldn't be humiliated or left hanging in the wind.
@@missbelled6700 Tommen also knew that Joffrey was a terrible person and he knew and respected his grandfather.
Had Tywin not died, Tommen may very well have become a great king.
@@missbelled6700 I think it’s supposed to be that way to show that no one besides Cersi, was gonna miss Joffrey. Not even the rest of his own family
In the books Joffrey sexually assaulted him. So no, not too bummed out.
When tommen says wisdom Tywin seems so proud of him it’s so wholesome from such a cold person like Tywin.
Tywin's not proud. He's trying to emphasise to Tommen that he should allow Tywin to pull the strings.
I suppose that after living through 5 unwise kings the fact that the kid gives the correct answer must have been a breath of fresh air for him
@@turtleheadedbadger the advice tywin gives is actually sound his motives may not be completely honest but he was happy how tommen answered his questions
@nah mate I disagree. Tywin is aware he is not going to live forever. In the books; his sister says something along the lines of, Tywin is aware Tyrion is his child that is the most similar to him and it pains him. The idea he has a non-disabled grandson that can be molded into his image, is genuinely a point of pride to him. Lannisters are driven by pride, if Tywin can mould the king into his image, that's something worthwhile to Tywin.
he's probably wishing tommen were arya
- But what makes a good king? Hmm? What is a good king's single most important quality?
- Love?
- Ah yes, love, a king must love and he must be loved. King Tommen was loved. And he loved his wife so much that he committed suicide when she died.
that's beautiful
love is not ruling.
- ... be quiet and look like a king while you rule the kingdom from the shadows, grandpa?
- You got it, kid.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
King robb chose love over duty. He was slaughtered at his uncle’s wedding.
I love how Tywin says "King Robert was strong" instead of "Your father was strong". Tywin knew, even if he pretended not to.
That is SUCH a good point! My gosh!
I don't think he knew legitimately. Too disgusting to think ur children would do so sometimes so sinister
Tywin didn't know at the time until Cersei told the truth to him in the end of Season 4
@@margarethmichelina5146 Ele sabia, os rumores foram espalhados desde a 2 temporada por Stannins Baratheon e Tywin não era estupido, ele não quis acreditar nem quando Cersei falou. Joffrey também sabia e confrontou Cersei por isso.
@@margarethmichelina5146 I agree. It's disgusting to think ur children would do that
Anyone of you realise that this is the only time we see Tommen and Tywin talking with one another?
nodinitiative Unfortunately for the Lannister dynasty.
Who else thinks Tywin was a badass. A motherfucker of a man, but intimidating, dignified and didn't take any shit.
Yeah, Tywin is one of those characters I admire and want to shake hands with for being such an awesome genius...followed by punching them in the face for being such assholes and, in Tywins case, the lousiest father imaginable.
Roose Bolton fits this description quite well too.
Alexander Sturnn You mention Roose Bolton: he was *far worse* _ starting with *how* he fathered Ramsay in the first place.
I also don't think Tywin was as bad towards his children as Randyll Tarly, who threatened to kill his eldest son and banished him to the Wall.
So I wouldn't agree that Tywin is the "lousiest father" in the GRRM world: there are plenty of contenders.
Tywin was certainly harsh in manner, particularly towards Tyrion. But he still raised Tyrion as his son, with all the privileges that carried, despite his own feelings _ *and* despite the prejudice of his whole world towards disability.
Tywin wouldn't be an acceptable 21st century Western father. But by medieval standards (on which most of the GRRM world is based), he wasn't un-typical of his social class.
Most of us fans take Tyrion's side over his father's murder and the events preceding it.
But there's no proof that Tywin was lying when he said that he never intended Tyrion to be executed. If he was, I don't see why he would have accepted Jaime's deal.
Having said all the above, the one thing which *does* make Tywin a strong candidate for "lousiest father", not to say, "lousiest human being", is his treatment of Tysha _ and his involvement of Tyrion in that.
This scene was the last hope for a Lannister dynasty. Tommen would probably have been a good king if Tywin had survived.
This is one of the few times that I actually respected Tywin. This is because he actually sounds like a grandfather when he educates Tommen.
+5Mariner At the same time, he is making sure that Thommen will be controlable, maybe even a puppet. I dont disagree with you, just remember that that superficial reading of this scene is the kind of mentality that got someone like Ned Stark killed in the series.
+Alexander Greyling no, tommen is The little kid so what you expect? He explained him everything clearly
*****
Dont forgget who we are talking about. Tywin is a man who ordered the butchering of Targerian children by the end of Robert's rebelion, and who before that escentialy ruled the 7 kingdoms as the hand of the mad king.
true. in the books he was even planning to send Cersei far away form Tommen (who is like 4 or 5 in books) so she wouldn't create another monster.
Alexander Greyling Tywin wanted Tommen to end up a great king. His goal has always been to expand his family's greatness and Tommen's an important part of his family's legacy.
Tywin explaining sex should be in the DVD extras...
He pulls down the projector slide and..
ThePat1221 "Wed her, bed her, put a child in her." His words to Tyrion.
***** "rumpy pumpy"
***** "Doggy fashion"
+Badgaldinger LOL
Tywin saying ''i'm not trying to trick you'' struck a cord with me. it became a staple in my professional life. used to train new hires at my old job and used to ask them questions to assess how much they had learned or if the rest of the process started to make sense to them. a lot of people got distressed or felt the need to say something clever, not many dared to say they didn't know or didn't remember. following it with a simple ''i'm not trying to trick you'' made them much more comfortable being honest, taking a guess or asking questions themselves without being worried about ulterior motives or ridicule.
it is however kinda sad that so many came out of school guarded like that.
Yup, this is something I do with new hires at my current job. I make it clear that *I* don't know everything, so I certainly don't expect them to, which seems to put them at ease to tell me when they don't know something and need me to tell them. I'm there to get a paycheck, not to lord it over anyone just because I've been there longer.
I use simple questions for reinforcement with my students. It's fun to watch them panic. A couple questions and they learn my ways.
have you tried tricking them though?
@@suqmadique9762 technically, saying "im not trying to trick you" is a trick. You're tricking them into being more calm and honest to you
reminds me of dayz
yelling "im friendly" before blowing someone's brains out is beginner 101
You know what I love about this scene? Tywin’s killing two birds with one stone. He is definitely helping Tommen, and starting to mould him into a better King than Joffrey ever was. But at the same time, Tywin’s putting himself in a powerful position as the one the King turns to for advice, ensuring he’ll still get what he wants in the long run. He may be a ruthless prick, but he’s damn good at what he does.
He doesn’t even have to manipulate his grandson, just steer him in the right direction; and they’d both get what they’d want in the end.
@@LordWyatt Not to mention, what we see here isnt "Tywin the hand of the king" but "Tywin the grandfather of the king"
It is not objectionable that listening to Tywin as an advisor, is the best thing for tommen to do in his position.
Hes not so much trying to make tommen turn to himself, but rather to turn to those wiser than tommen, which includes himself.
Infact, Tywin himself is the wisest man in the room so it would be natural for him to want the king to listen to his advice.
On a sidenote, its worth noting the fact that tywin managed to turn a moment of mourning and sadness, into an educational lesson that distracts from the sadness, and instead makes tommen look forward towards what is ahead of him, and what he is capable of achieving.
He is also setting himself between Tommen and his mother. Joffrey was ruined by her; he wants to prevent that with Tommen. The rebuke to Cersei was subtle, but it was harsh. Basically, "You raised a monster to be King-- a bad and foolish King. I will do better with Tommen than you ever could."
most important thing is that he is separating Tommen from Cersei's grasp.
@@LordWyatt You know what I DONT love about this scene? How it’s immediately followed by Jamie raping his twin sister in front of the corpse of their bastard incest child.
Game of Thrones, everybody!
Everyone is saying Tywin is making sure Tommen will be his "puppet" but that isn't how I see it. It's a fact that Tywin is very smart and strategical and theres much Tommen could learn from him. Since Tywin is getting old I think he wants to instill as much wisdom into the young king as possible so that Tommen will continue to ensure Lannister dominance long after Tywin dies.
Exactly, someone to pass his knowledge down to. Something he definitely couldn't do with Joffrey. ;)
He wants to make Tommen worthy of the Badass Theme that is "The Rains of Castamere"
Well yeah, he's not insuring his own personal domination, because he's made it clear he doesn't care about individuals, including himself. He's obsessed with insuring the domination of his HOUSE.
Theriot6592 Technically that is wrong, because he thinks Tommen is a Baratheon. If he wanted to coach/educate someone it ought to be his heir (Tyrion or Cersei/Jaime). But Jaime is kingsguard, Tyrion he shuns and Cersei isn't smart enough plus none of them really listen to him so he only has Tommen.
Tommen would have been a puppet for a time but a puppet groomed by greatness. I agree that Tommen would have had far greater agency and strength after Tywin died.
When Tommen says wisdom and Tywin says yes you can hear the exhausted relief in his voice. He’s like finally someone who gets it. Someone I can work with. He sees Tommen as somebody who could actually be a good king and run things after he’s gone.
I noticed that too and the beautiful irony in that is that he always had someone to work with in Tyrion but Tywin was unable to take the advice he was giving to tommen about wisdom, otherwise typing would have removed emotion from logic and readied Tyrion to take heed of the family name
Also the fact that tywin can work with him instead of having to control him. You dont need to control someone who can be responsible and capable.
Or a one to easy to manipulates
@@BlackDiamond2718 on the contrary, I think he sees that he can take him completely under his wing, rather than Joffrey who started an inconvenient and costly war because on a whim he wanted to see someone bleed for fun
He can't. It was proven he was a puppet. He lacks ruthlessness.
Tywin subtly convinced Tommen that it is wise to always listen to him. He chose a moment before Tommen even realized he is going to be the next king. Such an excellent character.
Well it wasn’t a trick. Tom men should have actually listened to him and would have become a fantastic king. The problem is Tywin went against his own advice when it came to Tyrion. He wasn’t a wise father or a good father. If he was perhaps he would still be alive today
Considering the kingdom prospered when he was Hand and basically ran the kingdom himself, it would be wise to listen to him. Although he didn't just say "listen to me" but "listen to advisors who have experience on matters you don't".
I mean yeah Tywin was being self serving here but he's 100% correct. A wise king would've realized the cost of killing Ned was greater than any possible benefit. And as he explains, a wise king listens to his advisors who's job it is to know things and advise the king
Listening to Tywin is always the best situation Tywin for all his fault love his grandchildren and love his family he will always seek to strengthen the king and his family position instead of petty personal gain such a man as your hand you can hardly do better.
Love this scene. Love how Tywin is speaking directly to Tommen, and yet he's also addressing Cersei as well. He's pretty much saying, "You already fucked up raising one king. I'll be damned if you screw up this one." Tywin, why you so damn bad ass?
Edit: To have this video recommended out of the blue and seeing a comment I made almost 8 years ago is a little trippy, not gonna lie. Glad to see the other civil discussion and comments in the replies!
Come on preach it👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
His advice is amazing - shame it's got manipulation written all over it, hey.
LOL, he's giving Tommen the talk about the birds and the bees, and he still sounds awesome!
@@solitarysurreal3652 maybe, but I do believe he would've made tommen to be an excellent king if he had enough time.
@@darthpalpalzang7914 Oh on that I agree - sadly Margaery got her hooks into him too.
I love how Tywin never says Tommen that he is wrong but instead quotes examples from history how they all were the wrong qualities that a king should possess.
That ladies and gentlemen is how you should teach your child.
Edit - I agree not the "wrong qualities" but definitely not the most important ones!
Aka. You need to actually be smart, or educate yourself to dispel ignorance. And TEACH without any biased instances.
Not the *wrong* qualities, just not the most important, or not sufficient on their own without wisdom.
That's why dynasties that ruled for hundreds of year in history had always record royal's routine and meetings. Even today's civilization is fruit of many trials and errors of our ancestors.
Facts
Parents and teachers alike could learn a lot from this scene: don't just *say* they're wrong or incorrect, show it. Knowledge isn't the replacement of previous info, it is *building* upon it.
Tywin actually gives some really solid advice, here - and presents it in a really healthy way. Note that he never says "you're wrong" - he agrees that the qualities are important, but also gives some examples of how they might not be enough on their own.
Then he highlights the importance of recognising that you don't know everything, and listening to experts in their field.
I question his motives - but the advice itself is really good, and really well-delivered.
Tommen was the best candidate to carry on the Lannister legacy. He wasn't sadistic like Joffrey, he was a kind, likeable child who wanted everyone do be better off. These are important attributes for a king. Tywin saw that Tommen had more potential due to being young and open minded, meaning Tywin would be able to influence him in a way that strengthened house Lannister.
True, his motives are naked here:
"Wise kings follow his counselors (like me, follow me!")
but it is solid advice, just shady coming from him
I don't think at all his motives are questionable. Yes of course he wants to teach Tommen to listen to his advisors so that he can influence him and use him as a tool.
But Tywin is not a foolish man. He wants to groom him into a proper king because Tywin knows even he will not live forever. I am sure he will use him as a puppet as he is now to young to rule himself but when he becomes an adult slowly will give him more and more free space to make decisions on his own.
So when Tywins time will come he will have made a proper King out of him.
He wants to teach Tommen to become a strong leader not only because he is the next King and a Lannister. But also he is his grandson.
I see nothing wrong with that.
he was also making sure that HE tywin was going to be the one teaching him by telling the future king that he needs counselors
It is a shame due to the book changes, especially after Tywin dies his brother Kevan had everything I plave to make Tomin the best king, until he was killed by Varis. Look at TH-cam for the audio. Book readers were waiting for that scene.
“King Robert was strong. He won the rebellion and crushed the Targaryen dynasty. And he attended three small counsel meetings in 17 years.”
Absolute legend
The point didn’t just go over your head.
Oh no.
It soared.
@@jonharrison9222 Me when I can't understand sarcasm or jokes 😪😪
Not really. Tywin was not as wise or smart as he thought he was. The absolute legend Tywin missed some things that was so profound that it had affected everything. His own daughter had her own husband killed by another one of his Lannister kin, who she has slept with, just like she slept with her own twin brother and had 3 children together with that brother. Making them double Lannisters with no true Baratheon blood. But then Jamie and his siblings were double Lannisters too.
King Robert ruled for 17 years, did what he wanted. Going to those meetings had killed almost everyone who went. Lannister rule was a blip and got the whole family killed and the capital burned.
Congrats.
@@staciasmith5162 I was@making a joke
The way Charles Dance says “Yes!” At 2:39 is such incredible acting. So perfectly in character that it’s almost hard to describe what makes it impressive
Such a good way of putting this. So much of his dialogue is like this. Best example is when they’ve the battle of black water and he announces they’ve won. All time performance
I've always loved the emphasis he put on "Yes", small details like that in my opinion make Dance the best actor in the show, next to Dinklage
I feel that this is so strong because tywin recognises what a big fuckup his whole family is.
Jamie is headstrong and doesnt want to rule in casterly rock. Sersei is also headstrong and vile with barely any bearigna on strategy.
Tyrion is... Well hated by tywin.
Joffrey was evil and spoiled.
This is tywin measuring how much of a hand he still has to play and once he sees Tommem to be just right to learn and showing some semblance of wisdom he just rages on like catching the fish pole with both hands and its like "fuck yeah we can still do this"
Yeah, it's like he was saying "finally, someone I can work with"
@@jeffreypeters2803 this guy gets it 👍🏽
I just love how Tywin caught Tommen right in this precise moment of Cercei grief, before she can dig her claws in him and make him uncontrollable like Joffrey, Tywin made sure that the mistake will never be done again and starts teaching Tommen right away.
That's not consistent with her character. She was saying goodbye to her beloved son. She wasn't gonna fight her father then or try to control her other son right then and there. She'd never let anyone get between her and the one thing she loves above all else in that world........
Power😈
@@Kruppt808 I know she was grieving at that moment, but Tywin is a man of immediate action he wouldn't risk waiting, he started the process right away.
Because he knew she would.
@Malthizar he is so obsessed with his name and his legacy we all know it, but read my comment again and try to understand, because what you said is totally irrelevant.
But he did repeat the mistakes on Tyrion and get killed for it.
Are we all on the same page here that Tywin gave Tommen the sex talk?
Yep! Totally awkward and unnecessary lol anyone could have discussed that with him. Tywin's advice for ruling was invaluable he should have just continued talking about that lmao
Yep! Tywin understands sex better than the 7 kingdoms.
so pathetic Karls Hans
Yes he did pretty girl
Gootothesecond I think it would actually Myrcella and Tommen together.
This is Tywin at his best here. The kindest he can be, when he says to Tommen “I think so as well” that he’ll be a good king you could see some semblance of affection from Tywin. This wasn’t manipulation so much as not letting Cersei spoil another king into being a cruel brat on the throne. He cares more about the legacy of the family and setting Tommen up for success.
Indeed, there is a fine line between manipulation and guidance. But for all the ruthless pragmatism of the man, I don’t think Tywin ever desired blood and chaos and unrest. He wanted stability for his house to thrive in, and he saw that not intervening with the last king very nearly led to unavoidable disasters. So now, he’s cutting away the manipulation of Cersei, stepping in and offering Tommen a new person to learn from. Notice how he never told the boy the answers, he set up the questions, gave the examples, but always he let Tommen come to his own conclusions.
I love the raw enthusiasm in Tywin's voice when Tommen says wisdom. "YES. Finally, young, malleable, and smart enough to know he needs to be smart. THIS I can work with!"
-
Ok, didn't expect all this so a clarification. No, I didn't just remix the similar comment, I saw the clip, and commented, pure coincidence. As others have said, it's an easy enough conclusion to come to and the only "solid link" in the wording is mostly because "*Blank* I can work with" is the most common way to get across the idea of molding someone or something into what you want it to be.
No, I don't have any proof of that beyond "take my word for it".
I saw the video, came to that conclusion, scrolled down to post it and moved on, didn't read other comments beyond one screen's worth and wouldn't have even known about the first one if not for it being pointed out. I don't really chase likes on TH-cam comments since, there's no easily accessible stat to keep track of them anywhere I can find, And I can't be arsed PERSONALLY "keeping score", so why bother? (And even if I did, doing the internet equivalent of "Telling someone else's joke, but louder, and getting laughs" is a scummy thing to do, credit were it's due, always.)
But speaking of likes, that's my only real evidence for "I didn't scroll down very far before commenting" Either roughly 5k People watched the video, scrolled down through the comments at length, saw the "first" comment, and liked mine anyway, or roughly 5k people watched the video, scrolled down a little, liked my comment, and didn't go deeper than that, Which seems more likely of the two and is, again, pretty much what I did.
(Speaking of, while I'm at it, thanks to everyone who liked I suppose, And "Great minds think alike" to the "Original" Comment. Wish the combination of those things didn't result in a Half-a-Year long "Debate" though.)
Problem is we have a mountain of debt and three angry dragons to deal with.
I'm not saying Tommen is a bad choice. But we need someone with broad shoulders. No one is going to charge a dragon because they have been "paid" to.
Also, someone whos not a dwarf.
"When Tommen says wisdom and Tywin says yes you can hear the exhausted relief in his voice. He’s like finally someone who gets it. Someone I can work with" - 4 year old comment
"I love the raw enthusiasm in Tywin's voice when Tommen says wisdom. "YES. Finally, young, malleable, and smart enough to know he needs to be smart. THIS I can work with!"" - your comment
Although there is a chance, that you just happened to write something, it seems very unlikely. What do you gain from copying a comment?
@@Bronzescorpion what do you gain from pointing it out. its not that complex of a comment that only one person could of thought of it. I'm guessing it makes you feel clever, like you discovered something no one else could? Even if he did copy it, I think the same emotion would be what drove you both.
@@Babidi111 It should be clear that I was curious about what makes a person copying an old comment, so what I would gain was hopefully an answer that satisfied my curiosity. It doesn't make sense to expect that albertjester was looking for the same with their comment, so it is really weird to suspect that we are driven by the same emotion as we are most likely to have two vastly different reasons to post our comment.
Furthermore, the problem isn't the complexity of the comment, it is the extremely similar wording. This is incredibly unlikely to happen by chance. So while they could indeed get the same thought separately, for them to word it the same way, is the mystery that caused my curiosity.
As for your question, no, I don't feel clever for have found it out, as it is in no way hidden, but there in plain sight. I also didn't make any indication that I thought so, so why are you assuming this of me?
One thing I find really interesting about this scene is how gentle he is with Tommen. You can tell he is kind of aware he messed up with Jaime and Cersei, and has actually learned from his mistakes there. He was too direct in his methods, too overbearing. He was a pretty abysmal parent and I think at some level he realizes he absolutely failed both of the children he cared about. So, with Tommen, he’s getting a second crack at it. A chance to make a proper Lannister heir that will keep the house going after he’s gone, and one without all the myriad of complexes he’s left his own children with.
There's also a stereotype of people being less strict with their grandkids than they were with their kids - maybe this sort of thing is where it came from, when the individual realizes the mistakes they made with raising their kids and doesn't want the grandkids to be the same way
Well his children were complete screw ups except for Jaime in a sense.
@@BruceWayne-fj9bm Jamie was still a screw up. overblown arrogance at fighting well in a tournament and signing himself up to serve the crown instead of his family at the age of 18.
@@BruceWayne-fj9bm
Jaime ended up as a screw-up. He just became less of one after he got released.
@@aunthaggis8856 Uh, what? Jaime's personality had nothing to do with his getting in to the Kingsguard. Nor did he win a tourney. Cersei wanted him at court so they could continue having sex and was the one who gave the idea to Aerys. Aerys then likely did it to spite Tywin, because Aerys was a madman.
And while Jaime might ahve been able to refuse (it's unclear whetehr this is possible), Cersei had already convinced him that it was a great idea. Not to mention, young Jaime was idealistic. He really admired the Kingsguard and probbaly loved the opportunity to join their ranks.
Dont fuck with Tywin Lannister unless you have a crossbow and he is busy on the shitter.
😂😂😂
Ayooo 😢
imagine being prideful and you die like that. Irony of Tywin's death
You can see when they’re going up the stairs Tywin is holding Tommen’s arm like an excited and happy grandfather that’s going to hang with and teach his grandson. Wholesome scene.
Charles Dance as Tywin is just exceptional. He commands the scene and steals the show every time. Truly a great portrayal by a very skilled actor.
Tywin choosing to educate his new King over the corpse of his former King, who both happen to be his grandsons is just elite.
Stephen dillane too. Too bad the show writers hated Stannis.
He is the lord of teh dance.
I don’t think an American actor could do quite the same job.
This is what S-tier writing looks like. Notice how much is accomplished in this one 4 minute scene. It introduces us to Tommen and gives insight into his personality and values, further characterizes Tywin as a man who values wisdom above all else, foreshadows the rise of the faith militant when Tommen’s first answer is ‘Holiness is the most important quality in a king.’, expands on the world building of the show, and advances the plot by previewing that Tommen will need to be married, and Tywin will be his advisor.
Yeah. It's also implied that Tywin would have molded Tommen into a genuinely capable king who would continue to rule competently long after Tywin's death.
Yes I would also say that this scene shows that Tywin was cold, pragmatic politician - discussing politics above dead Joffrey, that's rough... Joffrey dies and with a blink of the eye Tywin adjusts his political approach to new reality. And also we have to mention silent Cersei who is just standing there and mourns the death of her own beloved son while everybody around her don't give a two shits about him anymore. He was asshole, yes, but it was her own son for gods sake - and by the look which Tywin gives her when he takes Tommen away you can clearly tell that Tywin is giving a hard lesson to Cersei aswell, telling her- see you spoiled Joffrey so much, his death is your own doing, I am taking your other son away from you so you don't fuck him up aswell... Teaching Cersei a lesson through teaching Tommen lesson. Tywin is political genius...... This scene tells us so much within few seconds.. Truely a master piece like many other scnes in early seasons of GoT..
If Tywin was wise, he wouldn't have done the things he did to Tyrion.
@@pupper5580every man has a blind spot. In this case, Tywin's blind spot/weakness is the thought of Tyrion possibly not being his. Even the wisest of men let their anger blind them from time to time as noted by and in Tywin.
Its a shame that Tommen was a very unlikeable character. At least with Joffrey we knew we couldn't take him serious because he wasn't really a powerful king he was just a kid pretending to be one and Tywin made sure to put him in that place. Tommen was just fucking horrible...
This scene and his scenes with Arya are like the only scenes where Tywin actually comes off a decent person.....
Syryu As terrible and brutal a person as we know Tywin to be (and we hate him for killing Robb), he probably, actually, would have made Tommen into a good, wise king.
Syryu yea..... a very sharp man, and I think he enjoys teaching stuff to ppl he likes, with his question and answer method
I love Tywin in every scene
***** The only sense Margaery ever talks is sense her grandma talked into her. And I don't think Olenna is planning to talk sense into Tommen. She wants Margaery to manipulate him as well, so...
***** lol
Tywin would be a hell of a king.
You think he isn't?
He would have been, he knew how to rule. He was an absolute prick, but he was fair and he was wise.
Jeff Hossburner He wasn't fair. Not sure about wise. to a certain extent maybe. He was ruthless if anything
SealDude Ruthless because of his having foundations in the REAL world. He saw war for what it was, and was willing to do whatever it took to win. That said, he was not deliberately cruel - he did not take any 'pleasure' in the suffering he caused, but he caused it as necessary to protect his family.
he was a popular hand of the king during mad king's rule...actually he is the king but behind the curtains..
I like that Tommen starts asking questions, leaning into the fact that he’s getting a lesson. He wants to learn, he wants to be a good king.
2:00 when Tywin calls Robert Baratheon “King Robert” instead of “your father” it solidifies to me that he definitely knows about Cersei and Jamie and just chooses to not directly acknowledge it
so if he started talking about "Ah Yes. fighting skill. Jaime Lannister is skillfull"
would he have said "Your father"?
I have long believed that Tywin knew. That said, it is my belief that Robert knew as well. Both demonstrated the capacity to deny knowledge of uncomfortable truths.
Tywin had an iron fisted grasp on the family after Joanna died; I personally find it hard to believe he did not know.
I also agree with Graham’s comment. Robert may have been meh at kinging, but he was also a warrior, which means he had to be at least somewhat observant in his life. I’m sure he at least had suspicions.
Yeah, Tywin is much too sharp to not have known. Being 'blind' to something so obvious, when he was razor-sharp in all other matters, would be inconsistent with the character.
Maybe, but also keeping with the pattern he built
Tywin's "yes" after Tommens says "wisdom' is the spiciest line delivery in the show
I think it's because being affirmed by someone who is as experienced, cunning and mostly cold as Tywin, oftentimes even dismissive to inferiors, is an ennoblement in itself - just as well shown in the scenes between him and Arya. Very well written and acted.
It’s the absolute best. I would really like to get that line reading in private 🫠
Getting that sort of reaction out of Tywin must have felt good, like making a room full of people laugh.
It's the same "yes!" you'd say after winning a huge bet, a mixture of elation and relief. Tywin was betting all his hopes on Tommen, and when the boy shows genuine care and competence, it's like Tywin is internally saying "thank goodness, finally someone who's not a complete idiot!".
He was delivering praise to the gods that he finally had a grandson who wasn’t cruel or moronic lol
"It's all relatively straightforward." He really is Tyrion's father.
Tywin was rumored to posses a sense of humor...this was the rare glimpse of it.
Even though he wasn't. 😉
@@sikwilly45 he is until the books tell us otherwise
@@VictoriaTraducciones Indeed. They dropped enough hints, though.
@@sikwilly45 there are hints of Cersei and Jaime being Aerys's aswell, usually I'm not a fan of the everyone is a secret Targ theories but I'd rather the twins be the Targ bastards, Cersei has Mad Queen vibes, that seems to be her arch in future books, she will probably be the one to burn King's Landing instead of Dany, the part where she burns the Tower of the Hand and all the symbolism with the wildfire, even her eyes are described as the same color at some point, it's just perfect if she was the Mad King's daughter, Jaime in the other hand would be a kinslayer, just like Tyrion, besides already being a kingslayer, both having killed their dads, and considering his hatred towards Aerys and overall feelings towards Targaryens it would be poetic, one of the reason why he killed Aerys was because he asked him to bring him his father's head, imagine if he killed his actual father for a man that is not his father, Genna does mention he is not Tywin's son after all, and of course there's the incest, very Targaryen of them, also you gotta love irony of Tyrion, the hated son, being the only child of Tywin, to me Tyrion not being Tywin's validates his hatred and actions towards him but we'll have to wait and see, maybe they all are just Lannisters, not everyone can be a secret Targ
Love how he uses examples to explain things instead of just straight up telling him what to do, showing what the value of education really is
A teacher of how to rule a dynasty
💯
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it
Everyone is focusing on Tywin's reaction to Tommen reaching the conclusion about wisdom. What I find more intriguing is Cersei's subtle reaction. You can see the exact moment she realizes that Tommen is different from Joffrey. He listens to what Tywin says and genuinely reflects on it. She understands he will truly be a good king, unlike his predecessors.
This is exactly what I was thinking.
I was wondering the whole time what's going on in her head?
Also, Cersei was too busy spoiling Joffrey so she didn't care much to her last 2 children. She didn't even send any letters to Myrcella in Dorne to even ask if she's okay.
I feel that within the moment there’s another reaction too.. a deeper and more sinister one, where she realizes her son can recognize these kinds of traits and will one day embody them through experience.
That means less opportunity for control, less opportunity to win. To continue being a horrible person, he would’ve had to be complicit with his mother or somehow worse than her (Joffrey). She’d have to face him or end him one day.
Tommen was not a good king, but he was better than his brother Joffrey
What I like about this is that this looks kind of wholesome.
But also shows two things: Tywin wastes no time to start training the spare and he immediately asserts control over him. What he says about a king listening to their advisors IS true but it's also true that usually it's an excuse to have the ruler as your puppet.
Still, Tywin is not some selfish maniac desperately trying to get power for himself. What he wants most of all is for his family's legacy to remain strong and continue, he truly wants Tommen to become a good wise king after his demise, as Tommen is his last chance at raising a good king.
It's not "wholesome" at all. And what is it about this word? The only one allowed to use? No other descriptions allowed? God, I hate it already.
He has to. Otherwise, Cersei gets control early on like with Joffrey..which is a mistake. Cersei is way worse counseling than Tywin who is one of the best hands ever
He wasn't trying to make him a puppet, he was trying to steer him on the right path before Cersei got her claws into him and sent him down the same doomed path she sent Joffery.
Tywin didn't want a puppet, he wanted a worthy successor to himself, a king who would ensure the Lannisters legacy after he's gone, hence why he wasted no time whatsoever in taking Tommen under his wing.
Except in this case he’s actually guiding tommen
I love how BOTH Tywin and Tommen ignore Cersei's interruption and keep talking like she said nothing. It shows that Tommen drops all respect he has for his mother (if there is any) when talking to his grandfather.
He knows the hierarchy. If you want to learn how to be a strong family, listen to grandad. If you want to learn how to survive everything and everyone listen to momma. He listened to the wrong people, Tywin, his wife, high sparrow. His mom had the survival instincts of a cockaroach.
He definitely loves his mother, but even as a child he knows that he has to step up as a king and listen to wise men like his grandfather.
I think he didn't drop his respect to Cersei, he dropped his respect to Joffrey. The whole family know he's batshit lmao
@@effyutubeagain1099 Unlike Joffrey or most girls 😉
@@TheGreySage0 the fact that you randomly brought up “girls” is weird. Are we on your mind much?
For all his flaws.Tywin Lannister is unarguably the most disciplined man in all of the 7 kingdoms
Yeah what about Stannis, they share the same contempt for pleasure, but surprisingly for different reasons. Tywin is all about pride and legacy whereas Stannis is just completely dominated by the sense of duty and responsibilities. In the books it is implied that Stannis does not care for the Iron Throne for other reason besides that it is his duty (and legitimate right) to have it
and a faithless tool. You don't see Tywin giving up on his gods and converting to some burning douche or the drowning ass -w- at least Tywin will admit his lack of care for those in a higher plane of spirit! XD lol!
What about eddard stark?
If Stannis was in Eddard's place in the Tower of Joy, he probably would have killed Jon.
Olenna and Tywin were both disciplined. Olenna flipped after the death of her grandchildren. Tywin was always irrational towards Tyrion who was best suited to carrying on his legacy.
First thing Tommen suggests for what makes a good king is "holiness" and he ends up uniting the Faith and the Crown in Season 6
This is the reason GRRM is called "the master of foreshadowing".
This scene isn't in the books and GRRM didn't write this episode so I don't think he had too much to do with the foreshadowing shown here.
And then the church blew up and he killed himself. The end
This is my fav scene with Tywin. He's so proud and relieved at the same time. He knows The boy's answers may be naive, but they're not stupid. And he's smart enough to figure out the point Tywin was trying to make. He's humble, respectful, and smart for his age. And all his previous answers even though they were incorrect, still proved he'd take the throne seriously. Unlike all the other pathetic disappointments that came before him.
The fact that Tommen's first answer to Tywin's question of "What makes a good king?" was holiness should have set off a million red flags. This thinking, never being corrected due to Tywin being killed prematurely, is what would cause all the issues with The Sparrows later on in the series.
Really hits you how much Tyrion's choices cause massive problems down the line. Saving Catelyn was the noble thing to do but the Red Wedding would've been avoided and the coming war might've been lessened in terms of tragedies. Killing Tywin was the fair thing to do after all he did to Tyrion but with him around Tommen would've been steered away from the Faith Militant stuff that ultimately got him and his wife killed, and got Cersei put in charge.
@@thebeavpercabethftw9604 In my opinion it actually shows how much *Catelyn* fucked everything up and caused so many problems down the line. It's less apparent in the show, but in the book she was so full of herself and her belief in her abilities to rule and understand the nuances in politics, but when it actually came down to it almost every major mistake made by Starks and the friends of the North were directly attributable to her, her poor advice, or her absence when needed.
@@stupidnamefilter When you put it like that, it kinda reflects Cersei's actions into it as well. Both of them are impulsive, stubborn, short-sighted and overly emotional and worst of all only overconfident in themselves. One thing I personally like the theme of these characters, Catelyn, Cersei and Daenaerys they all let their close-minded perspective get the better of them. Catelyn is more tame, Daenaerys is aggressively benevolent and Cersei is hateful and vindictive.
fuck the high sparrow
Firstly it is not Tommen's actions but rather Cersei's action that empowered the sparrows. Actually, Margaery had a great influence in making that alliance with the sparrows and Tommen's sudden turn to holiness. To be fair that was the most prudent thing to do, not just to avoid walking naked in public, but to keep some semblance of the crown's influence among the masses. Also, she would have wanted to use the sparrows to finally end Cersei's rule and influence.
“Your brother was not a wise king, your brother was not a good king.” Savage lol.
You left out the best part. “If he had been (a good king) he’d still be alive.”
In front of Cersei too lol
Really though, that's the nicest thing anyone could actually say about Joffrey. If Tywin was being totally honest, he would have said "Your brother was a demented, cowardly lunatic."
@@TheStapleGunKid and his uncle killed him. Lol just joking , it was actually the rival family from High Garden but I'm gonna still accuse my own son. I'm sure that won't come back to shoot me on the privy
@@Kruppt808 Talk about getting caught with your pants down.🤭👌
lol Tywin seems like he's happy Joffrey is dead.
We all were except Cersei coz she a mum
he has hope again hahaha
Everyone was. All except for Cersei, but that's because Cersei raised Joffrey.
who wasn't?
Everybody was happy that Joffrey died. Well, everyone except Cersei, but she's a hateful bitch, so I don't care.
How savage of Tywin
" your brother was an incurable asshole, try not to be like him while we discuss future matters in front of your grieving mother and his corpse. Your brother is nothing but the past. Thank God. Come along..."
As a King, "You'll need to marry".... *looks at Cersei* .
Love the depth of Tywin's character...Guy doesn't waste even one second in filler dialogue.
You can hear the relief in Tywin’s voice when he says “Yes!”, Charles is such a brilliant actor
He was probably thinking "Thank Gods, Cersei hasn't turned this one into a dumb prick, yet! I can still save him!"
Tywin just seems so happy with Tommen.
Finally, a king who will respect what more knowledgable people have to say but also a king who has a drive to better himself so that he'll be okay when Tywin is gone.
It makes Tywin dying not soon after a real tragedy. His death robbed everyone of a chance at a great king.
Exactly. Because Tommen never felt ENTITLED to power like the rest of everyone else vying for it. He wants to work at it and better himself.
Great? Eh, depends on how much of Tywin's advice Tommen listened to. He would certainly be a powerful and savvy king, yes, but listening to Tywin too much would turn him into an iron fisted and incredibly cruel king.
@@juniperrodley9843 Tyrannical Tommen.
@@juniperrodley9843 I wouldn't say cruel more like cunning, as even Tywin knows when to work with his enemies, cruel would be like Joffrey just doing whatever he likes without caring about the consequences.
a father should protect his children.... well if he had murdered his daughter and his youngest son he would still be alive, the scept would still be standing and tommen would still be alive and rule.
I love how Tywin looks at Cersei as he walks tommen away to discuss marriage as kind of a “I’ll take it from here” 😂😂😂
The story of the Three Kings that Tywin tells may echo the downfall of the other three leaders, Stannis, Jon, and Daenerys, in Season 5.
Stannis relies on Melisandre's faith to rule and fight battles. He ends up killing his own daughter and his men and he dies fighting a battle in a rush because they have nothing left to eat. Just like the pious king who starves himself to death.
Jon was a righteous leader who saved the Widlings but didn't realize what that kind of decision would cause and ended up killed by his Night's Watch brothers. Like the just king killed by his brother.
Daenerys relied entirely on her strength (her dragons, her armies) but is unable to govern and dislikes it (like Robert who never attended council meetings) and confused winning/conquering with governing. What makes Meereen sink into chaos at the end of season 5. Just like Robert who is murdered by his own wife and his country plunges into a bloody civil war.
Damn, son. Well said.
I didn’t know Cersei sent the pig that killed Robert😳
(I know she didn’t but I heard the Lannisters were involved somehow, if not with the pig then afterwards)
@@LordWyatt She drugged the vine which is why he's killed by the pig.
@@LordWyatt the pig gored him because his wine was spiked with something that dulled his reaction speed.
Holy shit never realized this
I love at 2:40-2:42 that not only Tywin is thoroughly pleased by his answer but then even Cersei looks over and you can tell she’s so proud and maybe a little nervous that her boy is actually showing the aptitude to be a good king.
I see it as her realising that Tommen is allowing himself to be manipulated by Tywin.
@@turtleheadedbadger honestly probably a good move, letting tywin take the reins for tommen until he comes of age and learns how to rule would probably be better for EVERYONE
@@turtleheadedbadger Or realizing that she, herself, won’t get to manipulate him.
The truth is no matter what! it's tywin who was in control
Whether it was joffrey or even tommen
Remember when in the small council
Tyrion put subtly joffrey to his place
And joffrey said "how dare you i am the king the king"
Tywin says "A king doesn't has to say i am a king"
Then joffrey open his mouth to perhaps spit some truth
Tywin Straight glare at joffrey
Then tywin ask to send baby king to his chamber cercei took joffrey as she knows what would happen if she doesn't do so lmao 😂 🤣
If joffrey would run his mouth more
Tywin himself would might even send joffrey to hell.
@@turtleheadedbadgerexcept in this case Tywin is giving tommen some genuinely good advice and not being super manipulative about it
That "Yesss!" from Tywin when Tommen says "Wisdom" - finally, FINALLY, he'd found someone from his bloodline who felt satisfactory.
Tywin🎺📀🎷 was the unsung King of We$teros🌐
This has got to be the closest thing to the Lannisters being wholesome to each other. I know Tywin was sowing the seeds to manipulate Tommen but at the same time, he just seems like a decent grandfather and mentor. Also, Jaime's short exchange with Tommen was nice too, he just seems genuinely looking forward to supporting his nephew-son
Tywin wore no crown, yet he was all a king should be.
***** Pretty much why Pycelle told Aerys to open the gates of King's Landing... but also why Tyrion had it out for Pycelle (hence the "canary trap" of the three marriage proposals for Myrcella): because he sensed that Pycelle's so-called loyalty to House Lannister only extended to Tywin personally.
Rob wasn't king either, Jon Arryn was
Paul Thoresen false. King aerys succeeded when tywin was making the calls. Robert drove the kingdom to debt cuz he had complete control
In the books Stannis remembers his first encounter with Tywin.
Him and Robert were children when they went to the capital with Lord Baratheon. They entered the throne room and sitting in it was a formidable man with blond hair that looked like the truest king there could be. It was actually Tywin sitting on it, acting as regent while Aerys was away
@@AlejandroSanchez-pl6jw
The debt came from Little finger IIRC. Robert was too dumb and gullible to notice. And so was everyone else.
Baelish is loved by everyone in the books because he was thought to be good with money and a miracle worker. The truth is he was excessively borrowing for the purpose of that image. And to ascend from the inevitable chaos from Braavos. Chaos is a ladder.
He is also thought to be simple, especially since he comes from a humble house in the Fingers. Loyal and simple and good with the cash.
In the books nobody besides Varys (probably) and Sansa knows how slimy and cunning Baelish is. Jaime even considers him a serious candidate for Hand of the King.
This is all from memory though. I'm probably getting some detail wrong.
everybody talks about Peter Dinklage(best one) and Lena Headey but holy shit Charles Dance was good throughout this entire series, one of the best portraits of a villain/antagonist in modern TV.
+Kevin Zambrano He reminds me of Christopher Lee. I guess that's something :P
+Kevin Zambrano how bout anti-hero? Because he isnt 100% in the antagonist or the protagonist camp.
+Alexander Greyling he's not an antihero, Punisher is an antihero, Tyrion would be the closest thing to an anti-hero in the show. Tywin is just a guy, sometimes a bad guy who wants his legacy to be legendary.
Kevin Zambrano
And who ordered the killing of children. But yeah, i see what you mean... he is a tricky charecter to clasify
+Alexander Greyling what children?
Tywin: what makes a good king?
tommen: .........
tommen:
tywin:
tommen: kittens
Tywin: yussssssssssss
Veronica Michelle Yesh! :) I love kittens.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
See pounce for hand of the king
@@blanketsquares7607 W
Scenes like this were so dang good. You can see this is what Tywin truly lives for, and Tommen sincerely wanted to learn.
Seeing Cersei slowly realizing how his father, finally in the capital and in charge if his role if King Advisor, stole the power AND his children from her is amazing.
Tywin Lannister is an amazing character
She deserved it, Joffrey was a bastard she raised snd would fail to control
I see that some people think this is Tywin's way of establishing control over Tommen. Maybe, but I think Tywin legitimately wants to see Tommen be successful. A successful reign is in the interest of the kingdom and more importantly the House Lannister. Tywin gains nothing by Tommen failing. To me more telling is his advice to seek counsel even after he comes of age. Again, some might say this is Tywin ensuring he has Tommen under his control for a long time. But Tywin himself admits that he won't be alive for very long. I think Tywin recognizes in Tommen someone with the potential to be a good king, and for the House Lannister to have a popular king in its history book is perhaps the best legacy Tywin can leave.
I agree, specially since in the way he addresses Tommen, it isn't condescending as when he talk to Joffrey . And he expects Tommen to figure out his answers instead of flat out telling him.
I think this scene shows Tywin's respect for Tommen, he isn't rude or condescending, he just lets Tommen think through his answers and work things out for himself. I rather like Tommen, he seems like a very sweet young man with a good disposition who could be a wise, just and strong king. He is everything Joffrey was not, thoughtful, friendly and polite.
He can tell that Tommen is nothing like Joffrey. And for that he knows Tommen is the key to his dynasty.
pittland44 almost like the perfect lannister in his eyes whereas his own children are deemed failures
Murphy Except... he wasnt a Lannister King, he was Baratheon.. on paper at least..
Imagine Tywin giving Jaime "the talk" (before he joined the Kingsguard). I bet Jaime thought something along the lines "Lmao dad, been there done that, with Cersei".
"Goddamnit, forgot about it! Joanna, I'm coming!"
Tywin was a badass. Who agrees. A ruthless motherfucker, but he was intimidating, didn't take shit and got stuff done.
oh so THAT is what we've been doing! huh... neat.
also Tywin never took shit, but he did give a shit in the end.
Well considering Jaime joined the kingsguard before he had children makes it quite irrelevant.
Tywin looks like a king, he basically radiates authority
What I like about this scene is that Tywin doesn't tell Tommen he's wrong. He let's Tommen draw his own conclusions. And Tywin doesn't say that the other attributes were bad to have, only that wisdom is the most important.
The sad part is that Tommen had the temperament to actually become a fine king. Not quick to judge, able to learn, think and listen and Tywin would probably be a great teacher to him, however offcourse tywins biggest flaw is underestimating Tyrion and Tommen would go down because of cercei herself. But yeah, i think Tommen could have become an actual fine king
If he didn't get corrupted by the high sparrow
Yeah if Tyrion didn't kill him, he could have taught Tommen to have more of a backbone and the sparrows wouldn't have run rough shot over him.
Tywin’s death and Cersei’s stupidity ruined what chance he had. Tywin would’ve never let the High Sparrow gain power and Cersei stupidly thought she could use them to crush the Tyrells - an alliance Tywin knew he needed to keep to maintain control.
Given that he kills himself later on, I don't think Tommen had it in him to be king, even though he had good qualities. Also can't rule if you're dead 😅
@@EmmaDilemma039 well, he killed himself in reaction to his mothers cruelty, the death of his beautiful wife and the fact he then understood that he in fact didn’t have any form of power and was just everyone’s pawn
I love the gentleness in his voice when he says "I'm not trying to trick you " I think he's manipulating Tommen a bit, knowing that a little kindness from a family member will go a long way to get Tommen's heart and minspd, bu also that he sincerely wants Tommen to feel all right about being honest, after being mocked by Joffrey and unsure if Cersei.
When the most important person in your family is talking serious business, you'd know he'd be nervous on how to answer. Not wanting to let down his mother or talk out of turn right in front of his dead brother. Tywin has to reassure he is trying to impart....... yes wisdom on him snd not berate or talk down to him.
He's not trying to trick him so much as get his trust and attention. He is going to speak some truths here.
"What do they all lack?"
"A good story?"
"Ser Bronn, please station more soldiers outside of my son Tyrion's cell; he's evidently found a way to talk to my grandson, and now poor Tommen's mind is rotting."
Lool
Charles Dance was the perfect fit to play Tywin, the way he commands the stage as it where, and we're hanging on his every word, a truly elite actor
Absolutley. Every time he appeared on screen, you sat up a little and stared at the screen. You knew you were in for some great stuff.
This is so sweet. A man teaching his only grandson. A boy learning from his only grandfather. Wholesome family values.
I feel like Tywin was legit excited that his idiotic, cruel grandson was finally dead and he could focus on trying to raise a king that actually listens to his advisors.
Tommes was really gullible, but I feel like with Tywins guidance he would have become a really good king, because he is actually willing to LEARN.
Between Tywin and Margaery Tommen could have been shaped into the best ruler Westeros had had in a long time. It’s a bit of a shame Tywin got shot on the shitter and Margaery was obliterated when Cersei gave up on the Game and threw the table. Tywin’s kids fuck up everything they are involved in.
@@hresvelgr7193 But in the end, he would be controlled by those two. Is that a bad thing? If he was too inept on his own, then no. But ultimately he is only as strong as those pulling the strings. And when the string pullers were gone, he totally collapsed and that collapse brought even more ruin upon the kingdom
@@cylontoaster7660 Thanks Cersei and Tyrion. What is with Tywin’s children and fucking everything up
@@cylontoaster7660
That’s because he wasn’t an adult yet. If he had been properly taught and prepared for the position he would’ve been a good king. He was essentially still a student, but the fact that he was willing to learn gave him potential.
@@cylontoaster7660 But we don't know that. If Tywin and Margaery were both still alive and fine, there could have been a balance, Tommen could have been taught and trained to stand on his own. He was a kid, he had time to learn and grow, that's what kids do, and eventually he could have had the time to be independent in his own thinking and take in everything he's learned around him that even without Tywin and Margaery he could have been fine. The reason he was "inept" was because he was still young and he hadn't even had the chance to really learn before they were gone.
A good king is someone born amidst salt and smoke. Some call him the Lord's chosen, others call him a ham.
I digress.
MJk Slasher That was actually clever. You deserve upvotes.
Bu dum tish
had to go back and watch that scene lol
+MJk Slasher Top ten comments of 215
+MJk Slasher And that ham is the one true kind of Westeros.
I love how neither Tommen or Tywin could care less about Joffrey, Tommen decided to stop pretending when Tywin showed up.
Yea Tommen might have not liked Joffrey either lol growing up seeing him do
The way Cersei looks at Tommen when he says "wisdom"... She's both impressed and incredulous at the same time.
She’s proud that he had potential to be something that Joffrey couldn’t be in his dreams, but scared that it would mean she couldn’t have any true power
Tywin was the greatest character in Game of Thrones.
Is* he may not be alive now, but his legacy continues to live.
Tywin Lannister was the only one who truly understood the way everything works, yet maintained a focused goal that benefitted his Family instead o fhimself. If Tywin Lannister and Eddard Stark were both given the chance the rule during a peaceful time, I believe the result of their rule would be largely the same good outcome; Tywin would maintain Lannister control because he knows that too much change creates "chaos and stupidity", and as well that good policy keeps the gentry happy and docile. Eddard would rule justly and with fair policy that any who did not care for power would love, though if he did not properly dispose of threats to Stark rule then the Starks themselves would be disposed of {as we have seen happen}. In the end, Eddard's temperament would be an excellent follow-up to Tywin {if they were of the same House}.
They are decidedly the two greatest Men of A Song of Ice and Fire-- nevermind this pisspot High Fantasy nonsense about dragons and white walkers.
He's the reason I even bothered to watch the show. I started off trying to avoid the Game of Thrones phenomenon, seeing it as another fantasy. Then I heard Tywin speak. Then I was hooked.
Tywin is too charismatic, even for a villain. I would be a lannister troop for him. I'd also be a troop for Tyrion as well. westerland troops are damn fine soldiers. It's just the commanders you have to worry about. If Tywin could've looked past Tyrion imperfections. They'd be an unstoppable Force. Now without either of them. Just like Podric Payne, I would defect from the lannister army.
That he was. All of the greats were the older characters, imo.
Tywin Lannister is not evil. He is intelligent. In the world of GOT one has to be cruel to survive. Tywin is acting in the best interests of himself and his family, even when he acts cruelly he's only doing so to achieve a goal. He is not psychotically cruel, he doesn't find cruelty amusing.
People who think Tywin will groom Tommen into a psychotic like Joeffery are idiots. If Tywin was left to raise Tommen he would make him into someone like himself. An intelligent, calculating, and politically savy king who knows how to play the game of thrones.
The world of GOT is like that because men like Tywin MAKE it like that.
Theriot6592 You should give George R. R. Martin more credit for his understanding of Politics and history. Politics in the Pre-industrialized world was very much like GOT.
One could make an argument that modern day politicians are as ruthless if not more ruthless that GOT ever was.
deadbutmoving Um...yeah, that's my point. People justify moral bankruptcy by saying "that's just how the world works," not realizing that how the world works is decided by the people living in it.
Theriot6592 We do realize that people make it so. And there is nothing you or anyone can do about it. If you have some magical solution to make the world a better place please by all means do it. For the rest of us mortals we will just have to make due with the crazy world we imperfect humans have created for ourselves.
In the end even you will be forced into that position.
deadbutmoving Goodness inspires more goodness, evil and selfishness inspires more evil and selfishness. If you're only concerned with personal success, by all means go with the current state of the world. That's easy. It's difficult, risky, and courageous to try to be the one to actually take initiative and make the world better. And since Tywin is born into a position of power, his actions have more consequences than anyone else.
Joffrey: dies
Cersei:😭
Everyone else: crab rave 🦀🦀🦀
I love how they go on and talk about what makes a good King, with absolutely no regard for Joffery. Then his real father (Jamie) arrives all happy and then rapes his mom while desecrating Joffrey's grave. lmao...
I think the reason Tywin did it there and then was to get Tommen away from Cersei ASAP. Consider how fucked up Joffrey turned out to be cause of how his mother pampered him
It was a perfect send off for Joffrey, how absolutely nobody gave a shit about him. He was a piece of trash, died like a trash, and he ended in a trash can - a nice coffin.
Joffery was the worst of the five kings. Easily.
Tywin at 2:41: Holy Shit, we may have something here.
Lol, I've never seen Tywin proud of his family before this...
Tywin: YESSSS *this one isn't a vicious dumbass like Joffrey*
"What makes a good king or queen?"
"Confidence."
"Yes, Queen Daeneyrs was confident that she can break the wheel and make the world a better place. So she conquer it with a dragon and an army of barbarian horsemen and eunuch warriors. In the end, she was murdered by her own nephew to prevent the world from burning."
never would have happened. a single vulnerable dragon can't take tthe world.
Arya would have killed Dany herself if Jon failed
"ARYAWINSLOL"
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 jon should've let her kill danny arya would pay for the crime and run away anyways and jon would be KING!
@@sebas8225 arya can do it without ever being caught or suspected. thats why shes the best choice.
Drogon should’ve burnt that traitorous bastard where he stood.
Tywin absolutely steals every single scene he’s in. Charles Dance is unbelievable.
My favorite part of this scene if Tywin isn't just telling Tommen he's wrong, he's giving examples of past kings and how they were led to their graves.
And without his guidance Tommen reverted to his initial answer of holiness and it backfired completely.
And thus Tywin, one of the coldest men in Westeros... manages to be a better father to his grandson than the boy's 'father' and 'uncle'.
How utterly, utterly sad.
I wish they would have done more with this, showing Tywin trying to do good towards his grandson to make up for the mistakes he made with Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion (letting two do whatever they wanted for too long and showing no interest in being a father to the third)
Kevin Allen If you rewatch the Joffrey poisoning scene, you might notice Tywin rushing to cover Tommen's eyes.
RatchildUK
And internally, Tywin was thinking "Thank the gods someone decided to off that little piss"
Kevin Allen If Tywin could have been this active back when Joffrey was a child, this whole series might have been different.
Kevin Allen
O Please don't try make us sympathetic to Tywin who is as selfish and egoistic as usual.
Nathan L I blame it on Cersei, she never once disciplined Joffery or made any real attempt to stop his behavior. She was like any other parent with a sociopathic child, believing that one day s/he would grouw out of it.
I have no doubt that if someone had not interfered, she would have probably warped Tommen the same way.
This scene is brilliant.
Tywin recognizes the failure of his daughter and steps in. She was meant to guide Geoffrey and turn him into a good king. She failed to be a mother and let him do what he wanted.
In comes Tywin. Cersei rebells at first "this is not the time or place" he ignores her. He comes in, and removes Tommen from cersei's side, and leaves her there, standing next to her failure of a son.
Exactly and him walking away is symbolic of telling to walk away from both of them
This is the best of the show that's not in the books.
is at scenes like these that i applaud them. This one, th chair, one, the conversation between Cersei and Robert..
but there are others that you just want to kick them in the ass -.-
+Daniela stor *cough sand snakes storyline* i don't even want to start...
Dane Mitch hahahha EXACTLY!
Perfect example right there..
you take your middle finger...
I personally prefer his exchanges with Arya.
Charles Dance was born to portray Tywin Lannister. Perfect casting
A lot of ppl say this is a touching scene between a grandfather sharing his wisdom with his boy-king grandson. This moment is far more than that. This moment is actually Tywin maneuvering to solidify his position with the new king. "You need wise advisors," all the while showing Tommen how wise his grandfather is. This all culminates when they walk off, with Tommen in Tywin's arm being lead out, Tywin's place is secured.
But tommen is a little kid, so What's wrong with that? You think it would be better for tommen to rule Westeros on his own? Xd
Cersei did not listen. She only liked per poodle
Of course, there was self interest involved. But, he was genuinely pleased when Tommen quickly realized the importance of wisdom,Tywin alludes more than once to a sense of being aware that he was old and running out of time. He wanted to groom Tommen into a good and wise king as part of his legacy.
A wise person knows what he knows and he doesn't - A extremely important life lesson
It's a shame they cut the scene before I could see sex ed with Tywin Lannister...
CrappyPunkRock182 well had they stook around, Jaime and Cersei could have given a demonstratio😂😂
@@fionnbarrcasey5247 You wild for that bruh 🤣
Tywin is one of the most compelling characters ever, Charles Dance was perfectly cast