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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is part 2 of our A Better Way To Practice Arpeggios episode! In this video we conclude the concepts that we first introduced in part one and give in-depth practice techniques. You will find information you need to practice arpeggios more successfully and avoid engine and injury!
Watch part 1: • A Better Way To Practi...
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68 years old and been playing since I was 6. I've been trying to learn how to do arpeggios without them sounding like a horse galloping and this is the video I was looking for. Watch out Billy Joel.
This is the only TH-cam channel I’ve found that gives a rigorous account of building fluent, natural technique from the ground up. I hope you’ll continue to provide such highly detailed, stepwise explanations. For example, your comment about how low the wrist should descend in a swan neck, is a nuance that is often missed. So far, your videos come closest to illustrating the principles my own teacher demonstrates to me in our lessons. I’ll be going back over these videos and taking notes. Since I’m a slightly advanced beginner, I would very much like to build the best technique possible, even as I develop my own body language to express myself at the instrument. Your channel will aid that endeavor. Thanks very much!
Wow! Thank you so much! That is very encouraging! It makes me very happy to know that you found the videos helpful. Thank you for the support and remember, if you have a request for a future video don't forget to leave a comment!
Practical Piano Technique Thank you for your reply and for your hard work producing these excellent, substantive videos. They’re better than every (paid) piano learning platform that I’ve tried to give me an edge in my studies. Certainly better than everything else that you can find on TH-cam--I’ve searched for months. Your strength is in the rigorous presentation of technical details. You don’t withhold anything important and this brings your videos very close to supplementary lessons. The hand position and posture videos were excellent!!! My teacher is a world class pianist, so it was impossible to find resources to complement his instruction until now! I would love to see a video that talks about how one should connect the 3 types of gestures and prepare transitions between measures and passages until they become larger gestures (if that makes sense). Every technical problem seems a matter of the right combination of gestures and their connection to other combinations of gestures in other measures or phrases. Thinking of playing as a set of interconnected gestures is very challenging because not a single motion can be wasted. This is a delicate technical matter that’s received little attention. Improving one’s sense of pulse, or rhythm, would be another video suggestion. In general, I’m very interested in seeing videos that focus on detailed accounts of fundamental technical principles, building piano technique from the ground up as it were. All the tutorials in the world for Chopin’s Etudes or Beethoven’s sonatas won’t make the slightest difference if you can’t build the most solid of solid foundations. Keep up the excellent work and I thank you for it.
You are welcome! Thanks!
True
This is very helpful, thank you!
Craig: 10-15 year student here, 5-6 years with in-person teachers, playing mostly arranged jazz, some blues and pop styling; passionately working to upgrade technique. Watched a whole lot of folks re: thumb under passage and fingers over; all my previous teachers, including academy profs and grads taught the stiff thumb max cross. Yours is the most helpful and clear for a few reasons.
Your gentle persona is more recommending toward efficiency rather than condescending declaration that something is categorically right or wrong, good or bad. Some are like piano school cults. They have some good stuff to teach but their approach can be off-putting. You explain exactly why some methods are inefficient. The thumb-finger passage(s) seem(s) to be like the most basic consideration of piano technique. Different "schools" teach it variously. I'm working your method and finding success in the early going; it's always a challenge to replace old habits with new muscle memory. So, I will continue back at slow tempo-square one and build up speed with more coordinated fluency. Currently exaggerating rotations in scales and arpeggi which can't be done at speed with intricate passages.
I was watching the T schoolers who claim that they are not passing the thumb under. I have watched them carefully, over and over, and I defy anyone to assert that they are not putting thumb under to some extent. Your technique clearly answers that. What works when unifying the pieces together is: forearm rotation, thumb under but not stiff, and lateral movement. Will report back on progress.
I give you credit because of your demeanor and clarity, sequencing logically the components. My comments below are not a criticism but come from a place of wanting to improve the teaching-learning process, especially when yours seems top of the line.
All the teachers stress, and you made a big point of it here, forearm roughly straight behind the hand perpendicular to the keyboard. This makes sense IN THE IDEAL. The music that I play affords this opportunity maybe 15% of the time when one or both hands are in just the right octaves. Even if leaning to the side, the other hand is playing something which that movement takes out of square position. These jazz arrangers love those low bass-hi treble octave notes; if I lean for them, the other hand and forearm cannot stay square to the keys. Your comment here was "as much as possible" but my scores only offer that ideal possibility in small doses.
When the forearm is at an angle to the keyboard other than perpendicular, you must either, bend the wrist to square up the hand OR keep the forearm straight and play the hand at an angle to the keys which could be inefficient and look like a hermit crab crawling toward the thumbs and a train wreck going away from the thumbs. I don't have telescoping shoulders, forearms are very often asked to play at and angle, small or wide.
Can you speak to this/clarify what most teachers make a big deal of? Forearm, hand and wrist angle in normal common score passages using both hands. Awkward, stretched, hand positions can be sustained for brief holds, chords, then relaxed. Prolonged rigidity is harmful to artistry and body parts, I gather.
Also, it was hard for me to follow the "left-right" talk demonstrating rotation. Sometimes the visual direction was opposite the spoken description. I saw one good guy on this as far as the detailed description: single rotation when starting or reversing direction, double rotation when continuing in same direction, simple, widely applicable; I find it works with many chords in addition to scalar passages. I like, in your method that the rotations, single or double, give momentum to the 3 and 4 fingers crossing over and get the thumb closer to target. Another good guy who rejects thumb under used the words, "put some air under them," which is what must be done anyway to play smoothly at speed.
As I said, most other teachers I've watched online have something of value to bring on this, your eclectic approach, solid command of what you're teaching, clarity and easy demeanor make these videos supremely helpful. So, keep up the good work.
You're exceptionally good at this. Keep giving people exceptional value and they will gravitate toward you.
Thank you for your consideration.
Dave M
Thanks for this Craig! 🎉🎉
You're welcome! Glad it was helpful 🙂
I love your level of detail!!!🙏🙏🙏
Thank you!
This was interesting but for me - I wanted to see MORE of just how you do the thumb in the right hand (3:36)! I viewed it again and it's not clear to me as a novice piano player. I wanted to see you do it slow, then faster, then faster still so I would have a template of sorts to try it myself! Like - how can it be smooth and not disjointed when you are moving your arm as well as your thumb over to the next C?
Merci beaucoup.
Thank you so much, this is exactly what I need！
Thank you very much. This is very instructive !
I cannot thank you enough. I have been practising arpeggios completely wrong. Is it best to concentrate on one arpeggio per day or concentrate on the arpeggios which are part of a scale. I am a 71 yr beginner. Thank you for taking the time making these extremely helpful videos.
Great tutorial, but one thing which at least for me needs to be explained after hours of practice like this is how to get comfortable with thumb tuck, to not having thumb louder than the other fingers? Especially when we play quietly.
I'm loving these videos! So much attention to even small details!
It’s easy to look but hard to undo bad habit and pick the good one !
Very thorough videos, great details and explanations unlike many other ones in this sea called youtube. Thank you!!
For many people, the middle joint of the thumb (technically called the metacarpophalangeal or MP joint) is much less mobile than for others. For example, it is only with difficulty and a litte pain that I can touch the tip of my thumb to the base of my ring finger. I learned long ago that the standard “thumb under” technique for playing scales and arpeggios was a practical impossibility for me. I was forced by necessity to adopt another technique which is essentially the forearm rotation motionthat you describe. I think of it as more resembling a porpoise leaping out of the water repeatedly. I always keep my forearm and fingers parallel to the keys-no wrist angling or flying elbow-and never mind the loss of “thumb legato.” I have acquired the ability to smooth over the gap using the pedal, even while playing parallel octaves at speed. In any case, as speed increases, any loss of legato becomes imperceptible. By the way, some famous concert pianists have managed quite well without using the thumb under technique at all, including Charles Rosen and Dinu Lipatti. I wish piano teachers would stop promoting this counterproductive and potentially damaging technique.
Thank you for this note. My thumb muscle is so thick it is only with extreme difficulty and drama that I get my thumb to base of 5. I am adopting these techniques, which Craig demonstrates logically and clearly. This is a big deal. I was taught the traditional thumb tuck by many teachers who were not as good we they thought they were at the time. Bad habits got habituated so I'm working to replace older habits with new muscle memory. Nice to hear so many have already gone before on this road. I also think good pedaling can help the bigger leaps which are obvious slowly but less perceptible at speed. Same old, same old-slow down more than you would like, hands alone first where you can focus on them. Your "thumb legato" consideration has been a big deal as I am an academy trained baritone vocalist. Legato, legato and more legato. Some things on piano you just have to get as close as you can with the physics involved, a percussion instrument. I like Craig's teaching and playing. Some are accomplished players but look like they're working really hard at it, lots of excess movement. Piano Lab methodology promotes ease and natural, coordinated use of parts to do the jobs they are designed to do with the least effort. Plays smoother, looks better. The more contained one's demeanor, the more power/energy is concentrated. If you look like you're working hard, maybe struggling, the audience's quiet reaction is to pull for you, worry about you, hoping you'll make it. I play mostly arranged jazz and these issues constantly present. If you don't use thumb under at all, the lateral movements have to be bigger, as far as I can see. Thanks for your comments, helpful, noted and much appreciated.
Dave M
I wonder what the cause of this is tho? I can maybe move the MP joint by 10°, everyone i know except my dad has close to 90° movement there. Is it genetical maleformation of the bone? Or are the ligaments too tight and i can train it away? I would love to have full motion there because its also very hindering for guitar playing
You changed my "arpeggio lifestyle" completely in the most beautiful tension free way, many, many thanks for sharing 😎🤙... If I just could find a way to subscribe more than once :p. Take Care and keep 'm coming, how about a lesson on practicing mentally piano?
I watched Part 1 and waited patiently for Part 2 and then Bingo!!!! I cant wait to incorporate these great ideas into my practice sessions. Thank you so much. I always enjoy your videos.
It makes me so glad that you found the info helpful! Thank you very much for your kind words and support!
THANKSSS!
Great demonstrations, helpful as always. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
It was helpful. Thank you!
You're welcome!
I am an organist in Easr Greenland and love piano. I’ve been always struggling with arpegio. Your teaching is brillant thank you so much. I subscribed.😊
Very helpful!
Awesome video! Makes arpeggios much easier to comprehend!
Glad to hear it!
@@PIANO_LAB i just have always wondered why do right hand arpeggios start with the thumb? If they started with the index then the big stretch would happen between the thumb like it does in the left hand.
Reprising again after 5 mo adoption of technique. Other folks appreciate C's teaching. I remind folks that he talks a lot because he is carefully going through the moves in very slow motion so that each element of the process is very clear. Folks do need to learn to work independently. I found it very helpful as I adopted the technique. Now speeding up tempo-a lot.
Is this technique taken from the Taubman method?
I use 3-2-1-3 in LH B flat M, and 4-1-2-4 in RH, makes it challenging for me, especially in contrary motion at speed. I think my hardest key.
Hi - after decades of being awful at arpeggios I’ve decided to put some work in
I feel though something is missing from your discussion. Part 1 usefully told us what not to do for good physiological reasons
Part 2 offered a sensible approach but failed to address the reason for the techniques in part 1
The reason is legato. In your examples in part 2 there is a significant discontinuity when you move the thumb under because (of course) you’ve only partially tucked it (for the good reasons you explain)
But I don’t think you address this discontinuity or the common effect where the thumb gets an accent bah bah bah BAH bah bah BAH bah bah because it’s not connected
Are you simply relying on speed to mask the thumb discontinuity ? That does not help with slow arpeggios- I’d have to resort to the pedal (or tension inducing techniques )
Many thanks for your channel and your effort !
Thanks for this. How would you go about his practicing 7ths where I think the 4th finger is where the cross happens?
I've been waiting for these detailed technical explanations for a long time. Thank you so much! Can't wait to implement
Many more to come too! And you're very welcome!
Best piano instuctor on youtube "Hands Down" ! 😂😉 🎹👋
Haha
Wow thank you!
No joke I've searched far and wide. It's nice to see someone who has such a deep awareness of tension and body position and explains it in a way anyone can understand. No gimmicks either. I recommend you to all my buddies who are starting piano as well. You should have way more followers, your content is top notch, it's only a matter of time.
Thank you very much!!
Continuing to review and apply this arpeggio approach. In just a few days there is noticeable improvement toward the goal. Just use the monster thumb-hand supination in the first couple warm ups. It appears to me that lateral movement of the forearm, regardless of interval, is a, new for me, way of avoiding a lot of less efficient movements from position to position. Also, always getting forearm "as close to perpendicular as possible behind the hand," with the hand always so to the keyboard for every position change. Forearm is busier at its job, other parts less so when alignment is optimal. If one could get good and fast enough at this, learning the interval distances, there would be less need for rotation, but the right blend of all techniques is probably the goal.
I notice that you take the LH 3rd descending with 4, up LH with 4 the first time but cross over 3 higher, even in major keys. Issue for me to work out, context dependent, the use of 4 or 3 on the 3rd both directions as default. I've switched back and forth over the past few years. Would like to do the same thing with the same pattern unless the context calls for an exception. Will work on it from perspective of this overall approach.
Workin' it. Having fun.
Dave M
I can’t believe this video has only 4K views.
Me too :)
Im usually not the kind of person to comment stuff like that but that was an extremely helpful and insightful tutorial!
How do you play leggato using that technique?
These videos are more about the basic technique than about the finished product. That being said, over time these movements will get smaller and the shifting arm take over. Only then will making the arpeggio sound legato will be effortless.
This is a great tutorial! My only question would be how do you practice arpeggios like this so that the one note (like G in the C major arpeggio on the right hand playing up the keys) is not staccato but all of them are legato?
There are other videos out there mentioning that. Try not to accent when you hit those notes. Smooth and legato as possible with the wrist and somewhat forearm rotation
Helpful as always! Does this apply to scales as well? You also mentioned it in your scales video series, I think. :)
Yes, these concepts also are used in scale playing. Obviously its i bit different but the arm movements and rotation are basically the same. I need to make a part 4 on scale playing to finish off that series.
Excellent video! I was just teaching this to a student. Do you ever begin the LH on the 5th descending so that the hand shapes and fingering are symmetrical? For example: LH: GEC GEC 1-2-3 with RH CEG CEG 1-2-3
Thank you so much for your detailed and helpful explanations. I find your explanation the best out of quite a number I checked out. With the E major and C major arpeggios, I find that on the right hand, a 2-3-1 fingering vs a 1-2-3 fingering (for E, G#, & B (E major) & C,E,G (Cmajor)) seems easier & more relaxed due to the longest distance notes being with your 1-2 fingers similar to the left hand. What are your thoughts?
Great question! I can see why I this alternate fingering might be helpful. I've never used any alternate scale or arpeggio fingerings but can see why they could work. 🤔
It might if you get used to it. Efficiency is the goal. For a couple years I used LH 5-4-2-1-4 for a lot of flat scales and minors. I eventually gave it up and went back to 5-3-2-1-3, for everything for uniformity purposes. Less to remember. Easier to cross 3 than 4. Sometimes I will go back to (5)-4-2-1 in specific contexts. All seems pretty open as long as it's efficient and musical. Saw someone asking about RH C M arp-why not use 2-3-1-2; I see the logic, never tried it but someone has their individualistic thinking cap on. All need accurate lateral forearm movement. Great comment in the "archives."
Make that 4-2-1-4 for those black flat keys. Depending for minor keys 5-4-2-1. Good point you raise.
Do we have to raise up the wrist when we go down with the right hand ?
The raising of the wrist when playing descending is a very common idea and in my opinion is not very helpful. Part of the idea is that it creates a larger sort of ‘gestural’ movement. However the ensuing result is that the wrist is locked into a stiff position and it hinders some of the rotational movement. Is very important that the arm and wrist adjust for each finger as it plays. This gets into the idea of proper alignment of the arm, hand and fingers. The wrist should be supple and able to move up and down as you play descending, but it should not be in a constant raised position (in my opinion). The wrist should stay in a generally neutral position (Straight with the arm) when ascending and descending. Thanks for the question!
I'm struggling with arpeggio of chords with black keys such as Gb and Ebm. My hands tend to go flat whenever I play arpeggio. Any tips on how to overcome this?
Try playing staccato slowly using a metronome and build up to the speed you want.
@TheFir196 These keys are harder as the black keys they are so much thinner. Make sure that you are shifting your arm from note to note and not trying to reach only with your fingers which will make them tend to go flat.
Hope that helps!
I can't play arpeggios on black keys without tension. For example, D flat major: D flat - A flat D flat - F - A flat, etc. when I turn my hand before changing position, I still cannot comfortably and smoothly land with my pinkt finger on F
It's difficult to answer this question without the context of the music. However it sounds like perhaps a different fingering would make this much easier. Try using traditional arpeggio fingering where you don't start with your thumb.
I utterly resent hearing "fluent" to describe motion, when were talking about a motion begin effortless, smooth, like a fluid. One fluid motion, not one fluent motion. I'm not fluent at the piano, but my motions are fluid.
It sounds so illiterate.
Like you're not fluid in English.
Fluent - (of speech, language, movement, or style) smoothly graceful and easy.
"his style of play was fast and fluent"
@@PIANO_LAB I know full well
But the cultural vernacular used Fluent to refer to mental acuity, and fluid to refer to movement for the longest time.
Fluent being used to describe movement is a post 2006, aka post youtube occurrence.
And I am being a grouch, because I don't like it. It SOUNDS illiterate, when clearly the definition is on your side.