Nice. This is exactly what I teach jazz guitarists as a basis for soloing to get them out of meandering scale clouds. Learn to play 1 3 5 all the way up and down the neck and then learn how to use the notes above and below each note of the triad. Then you can immediately go right to some relevant melodic material on any chord anywhere on the neck and build out from there (rather than the usual hunt and peck from one scale shape and then jump to the next scale shape and hunt and peck some more!)
Wow, I'm going to try that out!!! Because I'm still trying to figure & understand the fretboard for Jazz and composing original music. I really like that solo idea!!! Thank you so much for sharing that!!! ❤️🐱🤗🤗🤗❤️❤️
I like this concept, but it’s calling “being a guitarist.” Rarely can we pile on extensions. Instead, we almost always have to swap out a chord tone for a color tone. (Say a R for a 9 or a 5 for a b13.) It never really occurred to me that pianists think about this so differently.
Effects plus open strings, thumb and different tricks to get those sonorities you're after. The extensions can sound cool in pairs fourths or fifths separate from voicing the lower chord tones
Yes, we can rarely play major or minor seconds in our chords like pianists, but we can play spread voicings that are physically impossible for most pianists.
Players often misunderstand scales. It's not a series, it's a set. If you're running up and down the scale in order, you're probably working your fingers instead of your imagination. The chord tones are ground truth; the scale is a more long-range view of the changes and melody.
The hippest jazz vybe around!! Thank you guys!!!!! Btw, Pat Martino taught me to have the ability to solo over every major chord position, every minor chord position, every dominant chord position...which works so well and especially because I never was attracted to scales. Matter of fact, I hate scales....I don't ever want to hear a scale or any fragment of a scale. Now I must admit that it's taken me 40 years to improvise at the level I want to be at and I wouldn't change a thing. It's unique for all of us. We have to find our own way and when you find it, it's the best! Stay with your vision.
Brilliant stuff. I love watching and learning from you from a bass perspective. I've always been fascinated with how keyboardists are able to construct these gorgeous block chord lines and play with such satisfying voice leading.
Good to know what this is called! I've played this way for years because it just made more sense to feel out each "flavor" of the harmony. Now I know the name! Beauty vid
My piano teacher had me doing this, but his term was X for Y. So 9 for R, #4 for 5 or 6 for 5, then 6 for 7. Then got interesting when he would have me X for Y on two notes of the chord can really come up with cool sounds.
Thank you very much for the inspiration. I am a german jazz pianist living in Amsterdam. Last year in june I had to say good bye to a great drummer, friend and teacher Clarence Becton. He played with Mal Waldron, Thelonius Monk, Woody Shaw, Jon Hendriks and many others. I inherited a lot of interesting books including the one you are talking about: The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia. I am definitely going to read and study it. Greetings from Amsterdam
Great concept -- I like the idea of a restrictive framework as an exercise to break out of the "pile on some random amount of extensions" ways we can easily slip into. Sometimes subtracting something (even a root or third) can make something different and nice. Also, bonus points for the domestic dispute about shilling at the end, that cracked me up!
Love the concept - and it seems to go hand in hand with SATB, as well as good voice-leading like J3PO explains in his videos. Will definitely check that out! Thanks, guys, merry Christmas and cheers from Hamburg (home of the whopper)!
I believe "hinging" (by opposition to "adding") is also the way guitar naturals compose great changes, with great freedom, because the fingers just have to slide by one fret on the neck. Up to the point where there is no tonality, just a moving tonal center as in, eg., Girl of Ipanema. In that sense, it is *opposite* of "restricting" (Peter). Quite on the contrary, there is a lot of music to unearth from such an approach, if one dares forget about tonality.
I like that this generalizes Barry Harris's schtick to any form with a 1-3-5-7 structure, with each step having hinges giving tensions to come to their own respective home. I like how it simplifies your thinking in the moment.
@zdogg8 I understand what you're saying, but I think, well a few things. Sorry if it's a long reply, although you can't say it's not serious. (1) In a way you're seeing it backwards from the way I am. Barry Harris himself hated the formalization and undue reverence of jazz, or jazz theory anyway, and thought that taking it as too serious an endeavor, with modes and charts and theory, etc., was part of the problem, a way for big heads at jazz schools to profit off of it. He always stuck with very informal ways of talking about his ideas. At the same time, (2) nobody was more derogatory to other genres of jazz than Barry. He had strong opinions because he cared a lot about what he was doing, and his language reflected it. Listen to what he used to say about Berklee or Miles & Bill Evans and modal jazz! Derogatory is putting it lightly. Well watch videos like this and decide for yourself on points (1) and (2): th-cam.com/users/shortss-ZPdaW0m8E Then (3) I like Barry Harris & his system, so in no way do I think it's trivial, and I still think schtick is fair, but I think any kind of systematization is kind of schtick. Well I started as a Barry Harris skeptic, but he won me over as I got to know him & his system. But I still keep a lot of my initial introduction to jazz piano. In the school I was taught, which came out of David Baker's approach, or the way some people taught him, you didn't want the rules to be too strict, and you wanted to always be a little skeptical of them. You wanted to have some rough guidelines (chord tones on down beats, approach notes, motifs & language, etc.) but you should feel that you have a lot of freedom around them, and rules can take that feeling of freedom away. So from that kind of upbringing, any kind of rules are a schtick and deserve a little skepticism and healthy irreverence, tools you can use, but they’re not sacrosanct. Well I can think of a 4th thing too. It also reminds me of one jazz artist that used to say it's the duty of every upcoming generation playing jazz to not only admire and learn from the giants before them, but also to look down on them and want them out of the way. Of course influence and genius should be acknowledged, but jazz is a living art, and it stays living by wanting to take things in a new direction and get away from "the old sound" and be tired of it. A measured amount of playful irreverence that down pegs that old sound can help keep jazz vital and alive (the same that past masters had for the generation before them), as long as at the end of the day you recognize the greats and why they were great. Well more basically, to sum all of this up, taking something too seriously saps the life out of it and makes it into a cold math problem or some music that arrogant fatcats would sip cognac over in tuxedos who wouldn’t be caught dead in the same room as the artists making that music outside the club. Jazz is alive for me, and Barry Harris more vitality to it than most artists. So I think some informal slang and humanizing and even a little healthy irreverence, if it’s playful and still out of love for the art, is helpful to keep it alive like that. Also talking about the pros and cons of it in exchanges like this are good too. So it’s even good that you bring it up. Strong opinions mean that people really care, and that’s what’s most important. I respect your take though. The tent is big and welcomes all kinds. Also, ultimately the respect I have towards Barry Harris doesn’t have anything to do with what I say, but the fact that his ideas are in my playing and thinking about jazz. You can’t show a jazz pianist any higher respect than that.
@@cademosley4886 As most educated persons know, in the USA, schtick (obviously Yiiddish) is mostly associated with the comic routine of a given individual, and though it has broader applications, those are much more rarely employed, so it refers to comedy or something that resembles or reminds one of the comedic. While, certainly, you are entitled to your own opinions, and however you might want express those, still, I don't think Barry deserves that, nor any serious jazz artist, quite frankly, (and I did assume, at the gate, and I did express the idea, prominently so, that you probably did not mean it that way), not when you talk about something he takes quite seriously, no matter how light-heartedly he might deliver those lessons. I'd been in Barry's workshop, one time, but that really is neither here nor there, I would say the same no matter who it was regarding the serious teaching of jazz. When one has chosen to leave his country, city, state to go teach others, as Barry had done, even into his nineties, you're not fooling around. Barry was quite opinionated and could say injudicious things, yes, especially regarding Mr. Evans, but two wrongs do not a right make. Bottom line, I've never heard the word schtick employed when talking about the more serious expositors of jazz. Dizzy Gillespie might be an more fitting exception.
As others have put it, I wouldn't call it schtick to avoid being disrespectful. I'd call it simply his style. However I want to comment about how the "hinge" method was how I was taught in college in my arrangement classes. We called it "subing". So you'd sub the root for the 9th, etc. Since I was introduced to this concept of subing, Barry's approach became somewhat of a turn off for me. It's kinda clunky and overcomplicating this phenomenon, and since Barry is no longer with us there's no authority on the topic. Everyone seems to have their own interpretation of Barry's system, and as a student having inconsistent frameworks is a big turn off for me. There's also this stereotype in my mind, there's a lot of beginner to intermediate players who learned the sixth diminished scale and now they think they can hang with the big dogs.
This is a very solid concept. The late and wonderful Seattle trumpet player/arranger James Knapp thought this. There is one case where the seventh can hinge in a dominant seventh - low to high: flat nine/third/thirteenth/root. Jim explained this as the flat nine taking the root function and the root taking the seventh function. Works!
Honestly this is how ALL music podcasts should be; not just with a keyboard for your own guess, but a table between them. Just don't sell you coffee! This really grabbed me because ever since I was a kid I would say that I don't believe in chords. Meaning that, to me, only the 5th existed. For example, in my mind, a seven-chord, even though it created an emotion, the 7th degree was still transitional. All advanced chords (6-chord, 9th chord, dom7), these were all merely transitional. I was insistent that only the major chord existed! The rest was "colorings."
I was thinking, how will I ever learn these thousands chords and extensions. Your comment just unlocked a musical level for me. It's like a pizza. The main ingredient is : dough + cheese + tomato sauce.But can add different toppings, add spices and other variation. What else have you discovered about music?
@@opteron4 No! I just wrote back in detail but the response didn't seem to go thru. // I actually have a color-association for each note. See my stuff on _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole._ It will blow your mind!
@@opteron4 No! I just wrote back in detail but the response didn't seem to go thru. // I actually have a color-association for each note. See my stuff on _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole._ It will blow your mind!
@@opteron4 I could not write to you from The Acoustic Rabbit Hole, for some reason. So i'm speaking to you from my alternate account (A432 Zone). I just wrote back in detail but the response didn't seem to go thru. // I actually have a color-association for each note. See my stuff on _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole._ It will blow your mind!
@@opteron4 You there? My secrets are hear at _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole!_ Lemmie know if you get this. There seems to be some kind glitch in this Matrix. // I actually have a shape-and-color for each note, have have been developing my hearing on this for over 30 years. MUST SEE! - _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole_
In the Equal Interval System this is referred to as "higher than one" concept. The basic idea is to ensure there are no gaps in the overtone series (1, 3, 5 and 7 are all represented).
"hinging" means moving one or more of the chord tones (or its extension equivalent) up or down one semitone? Then resolving them in a subsequent chord?
Thank you for explaining this concept. Representing the 1 3 5 & 7 makes a lot of sense. I have always had an inkling of this concept and you have explained it beautifully for me🙌🏾..
Yes Gary Lindsay taught this for years at Univ of Miami for chord voicings and big band arranging. Strive to represent the four chord tones (1-3-5-7) but you can can have substitutions for each.
This is kind of natural to guitarists since naturally we only can play 4 notes at a time, so we think of altering a base chord (usually drop 2) with extensions to get certain sounds that we want. Cool!
@@whoopwhoop90four fingers, so most chords you’re playing aren’t in tune with the open strings - that’s also explicitly what all these special tunings are for, to allow those open strings to ring and allow 5 and 6 note chords. But then you’re more limited in what you play, retuning for every song. So for maximum tuning flexibility you only have 4 for most situations.
@@kaitlyn__L Ah I see where you are getting at. You can bar several notes with one finger though, less flexibility of course, and less options. Or some guitar players tend to use their thumb to play the low E string, so in that case it is 5 notes at the same time :)
Thanks for this Adam and Peter. Surely a great concept from the great arranger Russel Garcia. I encountered a somewhat similar idea in Gary Lindsay from Miami. He has this Root-7-5-3 technique in voicing for big band. All the best to "You'll Hear It"
I know the Garcia book! Adam is onto the inspiration here by showing the “arranger” roots. If you have a four-instrument section, you want to have smooth access from one chord to the next through voice “leading” - while the chord may be static, you can get more color by “hinging” - creating motion within a static harmonic section, and also giving you the ability to add color/tension, with just the four instruments.
Yeah exactly, the efficiency of the approach comes from the limitations of recording and getting stuff to sound right with a set number of parts. Same stuff happens when you have limited polyphony on a synth.
I think this is a way more intuitive way to be able to really understand harmony on a more intuitive level, especially for beginner or intermediate players. Great tip! Extensions and scales are great butt I feel like the sensibility can be lost and more painstaking to develop if you just try to drill that type of stuff. Although you obviously want all that stuff under your fingers as well, any concept that allows you to play and think less ( which is the ultimate goal ) is really sweet.
Very inspiring. My experience is: once you arre quite comfortable with the scales, just leave them and do figurations and approaches around them. I didn't know that I was kind of hinging all the time. So nerdy! Love it!
In thinking from a 12 Tone mentality, subbing the 5 EXTENDED notes AGAINST the chord notes or scale your are thinking, colors it just fine. My meaning is taking the Cmaj7 Scale from an Ionian standpoint and using the NAMING NOTES of the chord which is C and E, adding Ebmin7(11) in a melodic thought sequence, does the same in spicing the ears up. So , I can say the solo centers around the C Ionian Scale, then b9#9b5(#11)#5 and b7 EXTENDS, tweak the ear😂😂
I think there's probably 'hinging' going on in some pedal steel playing, only they can also slur between the notes they're changing . I think I can also do that on a Korg Krome, which allows portamento on piano sounds. How does hinging differ from just playing a 4 note chord and just changing 1 note at a time vs changing more than 1 note at a time?
A lot of comments are saying this is a guitarist thing, but as also a guitarist myself, I think hinging is a slightly different way to arrive at a similar outcome. It sounds closer to the spirit of doing 4-part harmony, perhaps counterpoint but without the restrictive rules of intervals and motions. It just has to resolve to somewhere at the end. Guitarists do it out of necessity when dealing with colour tones and voice-leading. Economy of motion almost guarantees a smooth voice leading, and so a nice sound. But oftentimes, we rely on chord shapes instead of seeing each note as an individual voice that can move anywhere. It can be hard and even impractical to voice lead each part independently with 4 fingers on 1 hand, instead of having 10 fingers on 2 hands. Options are very limited. And if you rely on chord shapes, you will not have as much harmonic freedom as demonstrated in this video. When I write music, I often do things like hinging or very weird voice leading, like having a sustained maj7 on dom7 chord. But I have to sit down and contemplate, experiment to figure them out. Doing it real time in improvisation is extremely hard if not impossible. Fortunately, guitarists do find ways to play or at least approximate a contrapuntal sound. Almost all modern jazz guitarists, like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Mike Moreno, Lage Lund, Julian Lage, Gilad Hekselman and Jonathan Kreisberg, are very good at doing it.
Great content, thank you! For such a high quality production my two cents would be to better match color grading between closeup and medium far shots, and maybe just a notch less halation Lol.
Ok interesting and definitely a great approach because it means that you can work within the framework of the chord or the arpeggio (meaning you have a very based sound) but ... and this is not a criticism of your approach or terminology, I'd call this a suspension of sorts, or better still .... an appoggiatura *(wiki:The term comes from the Italian verb appoggiare, "to lean upon".)* I think it also means that you can allow your understanding of how to apply scale harmony grow little by little experimenting with what 'swaps', 'additions' or combinations either the music or your ear will allow and I think it also allows for a potentially very chromatic approach to solo building/note connection.
Very interesting .. and feels kind of familiar to me as a student of UK sax maestro Dean Masser, and his ‘leading note diminished’ approach. Without wishing to steal anyone’s thunder, I’d recommend checking out how he describes it, and plays it, in conversation with his mate Bob Whittaker on their Hornclub show No. 1. Like Adam and Peter he is very clear on it. It’s on TH-cam.
The hinging concept is very nice, the only problem being when you have to write the chords down for a guitar player, for example. Things can get messy very quick.
That is a jazz concept that Barry Harris (and also modal players like Mccoy Tyner) developed. It has always been present in jazz to the extent that the II chord serves the same function as the V chord. Therefore the same voicings used iver the V chord csn be used over the II chord
seems like a nice route into non-cliche line cliche voice-leading. as guitarists we see the likes of lage lund at this kind of thing a lot, where he'll play inversions of triads as chords or single lines, with this or that note flattened or sharpened - and slowly 'get round to cleaning them up' rather than resolve them immediately, so you get this lovely logical chromaticism.
Russell Garcia was the only way I learned how to voice..... for about a year or so... over a small number of tunes... really a very cool thing! Once you learn the basics, it's very simple ..... with open voicings ... melody note on top..
I'll remember it because the key thing is always to represent 1-3-5-7 but the actual notes, other than the bass, can hinge up or down. Except for between qualities of 7ths.... easy to remember
Could you point me to any videos you have that explain this difference that you're talking about between Bebop theory or thinking and scalar thinking? Also any videos of Barry Harris's theory that talk about these related concepts? I've seen a bit of his stuff on diminished 6th scale and scale of chords but im missing the connection to this theory
Barry Harris's parallel concept to this is what he calls "borrowed notes". Basically BH works with pairs of two chords at any given time, and one of them is always a fully diminished chord. If you take Cmaj6 (CEGA) and Ddim (DFAbB) you have effectively split the C major bebop scale into two chords (C D E F G Ab A B). As for borrowing - its the same thing that these guys are talking about but you are specifically borrowing one of the notes from the other chord in the pair. So in Cmaj6, you can raise the A to Ab and thus "borrow" Ab from the diminished chord.
Instead of using scales and sucking and not being musical or scales and arps, I came up with a complete musical concept to organize notes for melody: scales, arps, intervals, and chromatics. If you practice those individually and combine them creatively into phrases, it results in musical melodic language. No more having the theory be divorced from the actual creative music.
Thanks. There's no more info anywhere because I made it up! What questions do you have? What I'm assuming is given is to use rhythmic vocabulary to phrase in short and long sections. Practice the topics individually to the tune or chord pattern you're working. Just work the scales, just work the arps, just work intervals. Chromatics are harder to practice. They can be viewed as approaches or enclosures. Then create a pattern using several of the topics and work it out. Such as chromatic leading tone into an arpeggio up and then a scale down. Or an interval into scale passage. I can make a video if you want. Here's a Pebber Brown video on intervals that inspired me to make the paradigm of complete melody shape. th-cam.com/video/5B5IhqT3q-8/w-d-xo.html Here's a video which demonstrates Barry Harris's teaching of scales, arps, and chromatics. Add intervals for how melody is actually shaped in the wild in music. th-cam.com/video/R-d4PmAXsms/w-d-xo.html Let me know if you want me to make a video demonstrating the whole thing.
Yep. No offense taken. It is kind of silly that noone can explain melody. I had to scientifically figure it out on my own. I've literally never heard it explained accurately. I mean somewhere, some good teacher probably is doing it justice, but it damn sure isn't common.
@@clintjones9848the part about practicing approaches and enclosures reminded me of all the saxophone fingering exercises I was taught 20 years ago, which stuck in my ear and made their way into my guitar and keys playing and seemingly came out of nowhere for those teachers haha
'Trying to get my head around the use of the term ? .... .....Why "hinging"?.. Is it because the note that is changed forms a kind of pivot or hinge onto another chord..? Thank you, though, for this. I'm not quite sure how I would use it, but maybe I have to learn the real truth of it through experience. -- "Practice and all is coming," Pathabi Jois.😊
In a few years, someone with the help of AI will invent an automatic microphone stand that follows the speaker as his head moves. Take my word for it! 😎😎😎
Is the 1 3 5 7 always based on the tonic chord or on whatever chord you're on? Example: Key of c: on a Fmay7 chord . Are you calling the F a hinged E thus a 3 or is F now the new 1?
Nice. This is exactly what I teach jazz guitarists as a basis for soloing to get them out of meandering scale clouds. Learn to play 1 3 5 all the way up and down the neck and then learn how to use the notes above and below each note of the triad. Then you can immediately go right to some relevant melodic material on any chord anywhere on the neck and build out from there (rather than the usual hunt and peck from one scale shape and then jump to the next scale shape and hunt and peck some more!)
Wow, I'm going to try that out!!! Because I'm still trying to figure & understand the fretboard for Jazz and composing original music. I really like that solo idea!!! Thank you so much for sharing that!!! ❤️🐱🤗🤗🤗❤️❤️
Love this podcast format. Having a keyboard on both sides is genius
Totally! The piano with the desk in the middle is a great idea. It would be nice to visually see the notes being played too!
Yes! Now I just need a friend who also plays piano… 😢
@@brianzhamilton you got me baby! 🥴😘
I like this concept, but it’s calling “being a guitarist.” Rarely can we pile on extensions. Instead, we almost always have to swap out a chord tone for a color tone. (Say a R for a 9 or a 5 for a b13.) It never really occurred to me that pianists think about this so differently.
delay n reverb are your friends
Effects plus open strings, thumb and different tricks to get those sonorities you're after. The extensions can sound cool in pairs fourths or fifths separate from voicing the lower chord tones
11:13 for example stuff like this
This was a brilliant reply
Yes, we can rarely play major or minor seconds in our chords like pianists, but we can play spread voicings that are physically impossible for most pianists.
Players often misunderstand scales. It's not a series, it's a set. If you're running up and down the scale in order, you're probably working your fingers instead of your imagination. The chord tones are ground truth; the scale is a more long-range view of the changes and melody.
that's what I've always thought
The hippest jazz vybe around!! Thank you guys!!!!! Btw, Pat Martino taught me to have the ability to solo over every major chord position, every minor chord position, every dominant chord position...which works so well and especially because I never was attracted to scales. Matter of fact, I hate scales....I don't ever want to hear a scale or any fragment of a scale. Now I must admit that it's taken me 40 years to improvise at the level I want to be at and I wouldn't change a thing. It's unique for all of us. We have to find our own way and when you find it, it's the best! Stay with your vision.
Brilliant stuff. I love watching and learning from you from a bass perspective. I've always been fascinated with how keyboardists are able to construct these gorgeous block chord lines and play with such satisfying voice leading.
Good to know what this is called! I've played this way for years because it just made more sense to feel out each "flavor" of the harmony. Now I know the name! Beauty vid
My piano teacher had me doing this, but his term was X for Y. So 9 for R, #4 for 5 or 6 for 5, then 6 for 7. Then got interesting when he would have me X for Y on two notes of the chord can really come up with cool sounds.
Thank you very much for the inspiration. I am a german jazz pianist living in Amsterdam. Last year in june I had to say good bye to a great drummer, friend and teacher Clarence Becton. He played with Mal Waldron, Thelonius Monk, Woody Shaw, Jon Hendriks and many others. I inherited a lot of interesting books including the one you are talking about: The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia. I am definitely going to read and study it. Greetings from Amsterdam
VERY inspiring! I love these "minimalist" approaches where you do not have to add and shift and add, but stay simple and only change nuances!
Great concept -- I like the idea of a restrictive framework as an exercise to break out of the "pile on some random amount of extensions" ways we can easily slip into. Sometimes subtracting something (even a root or third) can make something different and nice. Also, bonus points for the domestic dispute about shilling at the end, that cracked me up!
Love the concept - and it seems to go hand in hand with SATB, as well as good voice-leading like J3PO explains in his videos. Will definitely check that out! Thanks, guys, merry Christmas and cheers from Hamburg (home of the whopper)!
Good analogy !
I always thought of extensions like that. Thanks for naming that concept. I'll be using that term from now on
I believe "hinging" (by opposition to "adding") is also the way guitar naturals compose great changes, with great freedom, because the fingers just have to slide by one fret on the neck.
Up to the point where there is no tonality, just a moving tonal center as in, eg., Girl of Ipanema.
In that sense, it is *opposite* of "restricting" (Peter). Quite on the contrary, there is a lot of music to unearth from such an approach, if one dares forget about tonality.
I like that this generalizes Barry Harris's schtick to any form with a 1-3-5-7 structure, with each step having hinges giving tensions to come to their own respective home. I like how it simplifies your thinking in the moment.
I'm sure you meant otherwise, but "schtick" is a bit derogatory if you're talking about any sort of serious endeavor.
@zdogg8 I understand what you're saying, but I think, well a few things. Sorry if it's a long reply, although you can't say it's not serious.
(1) In a way you're seeing it backwards from the way I am. Barry Harris himself hated the formalization and undue reverence of jazz, or jazz theory anyway, and thought that taking it as too serious an endeavor, with modes and charts and theory, etc., was part of the problem, a way for big heads at jazz schools to profit off of it. He always stuck with very informal ways of talking about his ideas.
At the same time, (2) nobody was more derogatory to other genres of jazz than Barry. He had strong opinions because he cared a lot about what he was doing, and his language reflected it. Listen to what he used to say about Berklee or Miles & Bill Evans and modal jazz! Derogatory is putting it lightly.
Well watch videos like this and decide for yourself on points (1) and (2): th-cam.com/users/shortss-ZPdaW0m8E
Then (3) I like Barry Harris & his system, so in no way do I think it's trivial, and I still think schtick is fair, but I think any kind of systematization is kind of schtick. Well I started as a Barry Harris skeptic, but he won me over as I got to know him & his system. But I still keep a lot of my initial introduction to jazz piano. In the school I was taught, which came out of David Baker's approach, or the way some people taught him, you didn't want the rules to be too strict, and you wanted to always be a little skeptical of them. You wanted to have some rough guidelines (chord tones on down beats, approach notes, motifs & language, etc.) but you should feel that you have a lot of freedom around them, and rules can take that feeling of freedom away. So from that kind of upbringing, any kind of rules are a schtick and deserve a little skepticism and healthy irreverence, tools you can use, but they’re not sacrosanct.
Well I can think of a 4th thing too. It also reminds me of one jazz artist that used to say it's the duty of every upcoming generation playing jazz to not only admire and learn from the giants before them, but also to look down on them and want them out of the way. Of course influence and genius should be acknowledged, but jazz is a living art, and it stays living by wanting to take things in a new direction and get away from "the old sound" and be tired of it. A measured amount of playful irreverence that down pegs that old sound can help keep jazz vital and alive (the same that past masters had for the generation before them), as long as at the end of the day you recognize the greats and why they were great.
Well more basically, to sum all of this up, taking something too seriously saps the life out of it and makes it into a cold math problem or some music that arrogant fatcats would sip cognac over in tuxedos who wouldn’t be caught dead in the same room as the artists making that music outside the club. Jazz is alive for me, and Barry Harris more vitality to it than most artists. So I think some informal slang and humanizing and even a little healthy irreverence, if it’s playful and still out of love for the art, is helpful to keep it alive like that. Also talking about the pros and cons of it in exchanges like this are good too. So it’s even good that you bring it up. Strong opinions mean that people really care, and that’s what’s most important.
I respect your take though. The tent is big and welcomes all kinds.
Also, ultimately the respect I have towards Barry Harris doesn’t have anything to do with what I say, but the fact that his ideas are in my playing and thinking about jazz. You can’t show a jazz pianist any higher respect than that.
@@cademosley4886 As most educated persons know, in the USA, schtick (obviously Yiiddish) is mostly associated with the comic routine of a given individual, and though it has broader applications, those are much more rarely employed, so it refers to comedy or something that resembles or reminds one of the comedic. While, certainly, you are entitled to your own opinions, and however you might want express those, still, I don't think Barry deserves that, nor any serious jazz artist, quite frankly, (and I did assume, at the gate, and I did express the idea, prominently so, that you probably did not mean it that way), not when you talk about something he takes quite seriously, no matter how light-heartedly he might deliver those lessons. I'd been in Barry's workshop, one time, but that really is neither here nor there, I would say the same no matter who it was regarding the serious teaching of jazz. When one has chosen to leave his country, city, state to go teach others, as Barry had done, even into his nineties, you're not fooling around. Barry was quite opinionated and could say injudicious things, yes, especially regarding Mr. Evans, but two wrongs do not a right make.
Bottom line, I've never heard the word schtick employed when talking about the more serious expositors of jazz. Dizzy Gillespie might be an more fitting exception.
As others have put it, I wouldn't call it schtick to avoid being disrespectful. I'd call it simply his style.
However I want to comment about how the "hinge" method was how I was taught in college in my arrangement classes. We called it "subing". So you'd sub the root for the 9th, etc.
Since I was introduced to this concept of subing, Barry's approach became somewhat of a turn off for me. It's kinda clunky and overcomplicating this phenomenon, and since Barry is no longer with us there's no authority on the topic. Everyone seems to have their own interpretation of Barry's system, and as a student having inconsistent frameworks is a big turn off for me.
There's also this stereotype in my mind, there's a lot of beginner to intermediate players who learned the sixth diminished scale and now they think they can hang with the big dogs.
This is a very solid concept. The late and wonderful Seattle trumpet player/arranger James Knapp thought this. There is one case where the seventh can hinge in a dominant seventh - low to high: flat nine/third/thirteenth/root. Jim explained this as the flat nine taking the root function and the root taking the seventh function. Works!
Honestly this is how ALL music podcasts should be; not just with a keyboard for your own guess, but a table between them. Just don't sell you coffee!
This really grabbed me because ever since I was a kid I would say that I don't believe in chords. Meaning that, to me, only the 5th existed. For example, in my mind, a seven-chord, even though it created an emotion, the 7th degree was still transitional. All advanced chords (6-chord, 9th chord, dom7), these were all merely transitional. I was insistent that only the major chord existed! The rest was "colorings."
I was thinking, how will I ever learn these thousands chords and extensions. Your comment just unlocked a musical level for me.
It's like a pizza. The main ingredient is : dough + cheese + tomato sauce.But can add different toppings, add spices and other variation.
What else have you discovered about music?
@@opteron4 No! I just wrote back in detail but the response didn't seem to go thru. // I actually have a color-association for each note. See my stuff on _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole._ It will blow your mind!
@@opteron4 No! I just wrote back in detail but the response didn't seem to go thru. // I actually have a color-association for each note. See my stuff on _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole._ It will blow your mind!
@@opteron4 I could not write to you from The Acoustic Rabbit Hole, for some reason. So i'm speaking to you from my alternate account (A432 Zone). I just wrote back in detail but the response didn't seem to go thru. // I actually have a color-association for each note. See my stuff on _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole._ It will blow your mind!
@@opteron4 You there? My secrets are hear at _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole!_ Lemmie know if you get this. There seems to be some kind glitch in this Matrix. // I actually have a shape-and-color for each note, have have been developing my hearing on this for over 30 years. MUST SEE!
- _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole_
In the Equal Interval System this is referred to as "higher than one" concept. The basic idea is to ensure there are no gaps in the overtone series (1, 3, 5 and 7 are all represented).
I really like this idea. One of many things I've learned from the channel.
"hinging" means moving one or more of the chord tones (or its extension equivalent) up or down one semitone? Then resolving them in a subsequent chord?
Thank you for explaining this concept. Representing the 1 3 5 & 7 makes a lot of sense. I have always had an inkling of this concept and you have explained it beautifully for me🙌🏾..
Yes Gary Lindsay taught this for years at Univ of Miami for chord voicings and big band arranging. Strive to represent the four chord tones (1-3-5-7) but you can can have substitutions for each.
This is kind of natural to guitarists since naturally we only can play 4 notes at a time, so we think of altering a base chord (usually drop 2) with extensions to get certain sounds that we want. Cool!
Gitarists can play 6 notes at a time, or am I missing something?
@@whoopwhoop90four fingers, so most chords you’re playing aren’t in tune with the open strings - that’s also explicitly what all these special tunings are for, to allow those open strings to ring and allow 5 and 6 note chords. But then you’re more limited in what you play, retuning for every song. So for maximum tuning flexibility you only have 4 for most situations.
@@kaitlyn__L Ah I see where you are getting at. You can bar several notes with one finger though, less flexibility of course, and less options. Or some guitar players tend to use their thumb to play the low E string, so in that case it is 5 notes at the same time :)
Thanks for this Adam and Peter. Surely a great concept from the great arranger Russel Garcia. I encountered a somewhat similar idea in Gary Lindsay from Miami. He has this Root-7-5-3 technique in voicing for big band. All the best to "You'll Hear It"
Love this concept! Seems like it can really help to simplify thinking. Gonna go experiment.
I know the Garcia book! Adam is onto the inspiration here by showing the “arranger” roots. If you have a four-instrument section, you want to have smooth access from one chord to the next through voice “leading” - while the chord may be static, you can get more color by “hinging” - creating motion within a static harmonic section, and also giving you the ability to add color/tension, with just the four instruments.
Yeah exactly, the efficiency of the approach comes from the limitations of recording and getting stuff to sound right with a set number of parts. Same stuff happens when you have limited polyphony on a synth.
I think this is a way more intuitive way to be able to really understand harmony on a more intuitive level, especially for beginner or intermediate players. Great tip! Extensions and scales are great butt I feel like the sensibility can be lost and more painstaking to develop if you just try to drill that type of stuff. Although you obviously want all that stuff under your fingers as well, any concept that allows you to play and think less ( which is the ultimate goal ) is really sweet.
15:14 i’m pretty sure that close to if not the exact voicing Danilo Perez used when he played Overjoyed on his record
Very inspiring. My experience is: once you arre quite comfortable with the scales, just leave them and do figurations and approaches around them. I didn't know that I was kind of hinging all the time. So nerdy! Love it!
In thinking from a 12 Tone mentality, subbing the 5 EXTENDED notes AGAINST the chord notes or scale your are thinking, colors it just fine. My meaning is taking the Cmaj7 Scale from an Ionian standpoint and using the NAMING NOTES of the chord which is C and E, adding Ebmin7(11) in a melodic thought sequence, does the same in spicing the ears up. So , I can say the solo centers around the C Ionian Scale, then b9#9b5(#11)#5 and b7 EXTENDS, tweak the ear😂😂
@@Hiphopdabop Hey, cool concept! And once you play altered scale you can spice up the alteration by using the Ionian notes. 😅
Cool framework - simple and intuitive
I’ve been looking for this channel
I think there's probably 'hinging' going on in some pedal steel playing, only they can also slur between the notes they're changing . I think I can also do that on a Korg Krome, which allows portamento on piano sounds. How does hinging differ from just playing a 4 note chord and just changing 1 note at a time vs changing more than 1 note at a time?
This talk on "hinging" reminded me listening to a lecture on harmony employed to romantic era classical composition.
Do you plan to release a jeremy siskind course for OS members?
Kind of what we must do on guitar a good deal of the time?
This concept is fantastic for translating to bass/guitar
A lot of comments are saying this is a guitarist thing, but as also a guitarist myself, I think hinging is a slightly different way to arrive at a similar outcome. It sounds closer to the spirit of doing 4-part harmony, perhaps counterpoint but without the restrictive rules of intervals and motions. It just has to resolve to somewhere at the end.
Guitarists do it out of necessity when dealing with colour tones and voice-leading. Economy of motion almost guarantees a smooth voice leading, and so a nice sound. But oftentimes, we rely on chord shapes instead of seeing each note as an individual voice that can move anywhere. It can be hard and even impractical to voice lead each part independently with 4 fingers on 1 hand, instead of having 10 fingers on 2 hands. Options are very limited. And if you rely on chord shapes, you will not have as much harmonic freedom as demonstrated in this video.
When I write music, I often do things like hinging or very weird voice leading, like having a sustained maj7 on dom7 chord. But I have to sit down and contemplate, experiment to figure them out. Doing it real time in improvisation is extremely hard if not impossible. Fortunately, guitarists do find ways to play or at least approximate a contrapuntal sound. Almost all modern jazz guitarists, like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Mike Moreno, Lage Lund, Julian Lage, Gilad Hekselman and Jonathan Kreisberg, are very good at doing it.
Great content, thank you! For such a high quality production my two cents would be to better match color grading between closeup and medium far shots, and maybe just a notch less halation Lol.
Ok interesting and definitely a great approach because it means that you can work within the framework of the chord or the arpeggio (meaning you have a very based sound) but ... and this is not a criticism of your approach or terminology, I'd call this a suspension of sorts, or better still .... an appoggiatura *(wiki:The term comes from the Italian verb appoggiare, "to lean upon".)* I think it also means that you can allow your understanding of how to apply scale harmony grow little by little experimenting with what 'swaps', 'additions' or combinations either the music or your ear will allow and I think it also allows for a potentially very chromatic approach to solo building/note connection.
Very interesting .. and feels kind of familiar to me as a student of UK sax maestro Dean Masser, and his ‘leading note diminished’ approach. Without wishing to steal anyone’s thunder, I’d recommend checking out how he describes it, and plays it, in conversation with his mate Bob Whittaker on their Hornclub show No. 1. Like Adam and Peter he is very clear on it. It’s on TH-cam.
7:38 peter takes in the st louis scenery 🍑
The hinging concept is very nice, the only problem being when you have to write the chords down for a guitar player, for example. Things can get messy very quick.
Considering diatonic scale harmonization, two adjacent chords contemplate all the diatonic notes on an octave, kind of.
U guys are really cool and I appreciate what u do big time
Might help if the camera was pointing at the keyboard ?
"We're trying to grow our TH-cam channel" [plaque conspicuously in background]
whats the intro song?
This is a really interesting way to think.
Peter checking out the lady at 7:35 and then cheekily looking in the camera to see if we picked that up 😂
R. Garcia is my favorite "Leave it to Beaver" intro arranger also indeed too, bros.
Love these guys
Have you listened to Warne Marsh? All of this information is in his playing ALL the Time
One of the great all-time underrated geniuses
Many thanks for this insightful and helpful lesson!
11:13 "averse". Thanks for the vid, guys
I understand that as the first inversion how is it different?
this is how the great chuck wayne's guitar voicing system works.
5:34 intro to Freddie Hubbard "First Light"!
Off-topic...but what's the meaning of "the ii is just the V" on Peter's T-shirt?
That is a jazz concept that Barry Harris (and also modal players like Mccoy Tyner) developed.
It has always been present in jazz to the extent that the II chord serves the same function as the V chord.
Therefore the same voicings used iver the V chord csn be used over the II chord
@1:48
-Stop using scales!
-No! I would not stop using scales! I love scales! (Plays C dim. scale)
seems like a nice route into non-cliche line cliche voice-leading. as guitarists we see the likes of lage lund at this kind of thing a lot, where he'll play inversions of triads as chords or single lines, with this or that note flattened or sharpened - and slowly 'get round to cleaning them up' rather than resolve them immediately, so you get this lovely logical chromaticism.
Well described!
You guys are amazing. Thanks!
Pure alchemy...thanks guys!
Useful. Thx a lot, gentlemen 🙏❤
Russell Garcia was the only way I learned how to voice..... for about a year or so... over a small number of tunes... really a very cool thing! Once you learn the basics, it's very simple ..... with open voicings ... melody note on top..
pretty cool concept.
Thank YOU very much for this.
What would be the difference of this concept to Barry's concept of borrowing from what he calls "familys"? Very little, right?
Is this "hinging" perhaps the same as "borrowing"? To me it sounds so!
I learned this back in the day as 'tension substitution'.
Great concept
Are your mics attached to that table? If so how do we not hear noise everytime you hit the table with your hands?
Thx. I love your TH-cam videos
Wow what a cool sounding game!
I'll remember it because the key thing is always to represent 1-3-5-7 but the actual notes, other than the bass, can hinge up or down. Except for between qualities of 7ths.... easy to remember
Could you point me to any videos you have that explain this difference that you're talking about between Bebop theory or thinking and scalar thinking?
Also any videos of Barry Harris's theory that talk about these related concepts? I've seen a bit of his stuff on diminished 6th scale and scale of chords but im missing the connection to this theory
There's a good TH-cam channel called "Things I've Learned From Barry Harris" worth checking out.
Barry Harris's parallel concept to this is what he calls "borrowed notes". Basically BH works with pairs of two chords at any given time, and one of them is always a fully diminished chord. If you take Cmaj6 (CEGA) and Ddim (DFAbB) you have effectively split the C major bebop scale into two chords (C D E F G Ab A B). As for borrowing - its the same thing that these guys are talking about but you are specifically borrowing one of the notes from the other chord in the pair. So in Cmaj6, you can raise the A to Ab and thus "borrow" Ab from the diminished chord.
Instead of using scales and sucking and not being musical or scales and arps, I came up with a complete musical concept to organize notes for melody: scales, arps, intervals, and chromatics. If you practice those individually and combine them creatively into phrases, it results in musical melodic language. No more having the theory be divorced from the actual creative music.
That sounds really interesting. Can you expand on that? Where can I find more info?
Thanks. There's no more info anywhere because I made it up! What questions do you have? What I'm assuming is given is to use rhythmic vocabulary to phrase in short and long sections. Practice the topics individually to the tune or chord pattern you're working. Just work the scales, just work the arps, just work intervals. Chromatics are harder to practice. They can be viewed as approaches or enclosures. Then create a pattern using several of the topics and work it out. Such as chromatic leading tone into an arpeggio up and then a scale down. Or an interval into scale passage. I can make a video if you want.
Here's a Pebber Brown video on intervals that inspired me to make the paradigm of complete melody shape.
th-cam.com/video/5B5IhqT3q-8/w-d-xo.html
Here's a video which demonstrates Barry Harris's teaching of scales, arps, and chromatics. Add intervals for how melody is actually shaped in the wild in music.
th-cam.com/video/R-d4PmAXsms/w-d-xo.html
Let me know if you want me to make a video demonstrating the whole thing.
The state of music education if normal practice of basic techniques is explained like someone's made up individual routine.
Yep. No offense taken. It is kind of silly that noone can explain melody. I had to scientifically figure it out on my own. I've literally never heard it explained accurately. I mean somewhere, some good teacher probably is doing it justice, but it damn sure isn't common.
@@clintjones9848the part about practicing approaches and enclosures reminded me of all the saxophone fingering exercises I was taught 20 years ago, which stuck in my ear and made their way into my guitar and keys playing and seemingly came out of nowhere for those teachers haha
It seems to be such a complicated concept that it can't be explained in two or three sentences
Isn't this just a variation on inversions?
This is also called “borrowing” in Barry Harris speak.
Blue, Blue, Blue by Russ Garcia and his Orchestra was my too song on Spotify last year.
Yes I am okay
Peter is like, 'yea, whatever' lol
'Trying to get my head around the use of the term ? ....
.....Why "hinging"?..
Is it because the note that is changed forms a kind of pivot or hinge onto another chord..?
Thank you, though, for this. I'm not quite sure how I would use it, but maybe I have to learn the real truth of it through experience.
-- "Practice and all is coming,"
Pathabi Jois.😊
P.S. The comment about thinking like a guitarist was helpful in relation to this
..
Wow this was an really excellent video!
Glad you liked it!
Isn't that what we all do by ear already, when we improvise jazz?
🤯 Thank you for this! It makes so much sense to my neuro-divergence. Scales have never made sense to me. Hinging is awesome!😊
BTW...I like the.. "Gentleman's Agreement Crap"!!❤
Sorry, I did not understand the concept, so I have to watch again. 😎
Is Adam playing a Nord?
Need that desk
Nice but it's a pianist concept, the improvisation approch is a little bit different when you're a monophonic instrument player.
Try arpegiating! A common use is the #9 going to the major third eventually in the blues
well, this is about harmony, so duh!
Locrian. Peter opened with "I love scales" and then played a locrian in C scale. IJBOL. (ICYMI, IJBOL is the newest LOL -- I Just Burst Out Laughing)
Ted Greene(Guitar) was the master of Chord Chemistry, his series of books uses a similar vein.
love this!! Ty!
Plz the intro 🙏🏿
Still don’t understand what «hinge» means
Vertical should be a result of the horizontal lines
I didn't find this idea helpful but I think it will be good for some other folks.
Wow that's what I actually guessed that it was St Louis
In a few years, someone with the help of AI will invent an automatic microphone stand that follows the speaker as his head moves. Take my word for it! 😎😎😎
Is the 1 3 5 7 always based on the tonic chord or on whatever chord you're on? Example: Key of c: on a Fmay7 chord . Are you calling the F a hinged E thus a 3 or is F now the new 1?
I think I know the answer to that. It's the new 1.
My method is more "unhinged" in a mental sense