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To be perfectly fair Hera has every reason in the world to be super pissed off. I feel like she gets a bad rap when in reality we should be shaming Zeus considering he is constantly committing adultery and trying to hide it from Hera. I honestly don't think she would be as pissed if every fling Zeus had didn't result in a child of some sort.
@@Jsizzlet Fr, I think she’s seen this way because people mostly look at it from the child’s perspective (Hercules, Zagreus, Perseus) where they’re the ones being targeted just for existing. We never get to see Hera’s view point on how she feels and honestly it’s sort of sad.
Not sure how accurate it was to what the Greeks believed, but I remember reading one story where Hera basically forced Zeus into marrying her so she could be queen of the universe. So I don't have complete sympathy for her.
The 0roblem of course is she shouldn't target the children of Zeus rather just her husband. I don't care who you are the child is blameless and should not be killed for revenge on the father.
Hearing Zagreus was able to wield the lightning bolts reminds me of how according to some orphic cults, Dionysus was believed to be the child of prophecy who will take Zeus's throne.
Many stories and myths from different cultures around the world share the same type of theme: a prophecy is told about a child who would overthrow or kill an evil king or his own father. Another Greek myth is Perseus, where a prophecy said he would overthrow his own grandfather, King Acrisius of Argos, so the King had Perseus and his mother Danae put into a chest which was thrown into the sea in an attempt to drown them so that the prophecy would never come true. But like many heroes, Perseus and his mother survived and as an adult Perseus ended up killing his grandfather the King. I'll give a few more examples of these types of stories: Zeus was almost eaten by his father Cronus (Greek mythology). Heracles was almost killed by Hera as a baby, and after his death he ascended (Greek mythology). King Priam of Troy tries to kill his son Paris (Greek mythology). King Laius tries to kill his son Oedipus (Greek mythology). King Pelias tries to kill the child Jason (Greek mythology). King Athamas of Boeotia tries to kill his son Phrixus (Greek mythology). Atalanta was abandoned by her father as a baby but survived (Greek mythology). Asclepius was killed by his grandfather Zeus, but was resurrected (Greek mythology). Pelops was killed by his father Tantalus, and then resurrected (Greek mythology). Hippolytus was killed by his father Theseus, but was resurrected (Greek mythology). Abraham tries to kill his son Isaac (Jewish mythology). Pharaoh tries to kill baby Moses (Jewish mythology). King Saul tries to kill David (Jewish mythology). King Darius tries to kill Daniel by throwing him into the lions' den (Jewish mythology). Lucifer was kicked out of Heaven by God (Christian mythology). The King tries to kill the child Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythology). The king of Egypt/god Set tries to kill the baby Horus by disguising himself as a snake (Egyptian mythology). King Duransarun tries to kill the baby Zoroaster (Zoroastrian aka Persian mythology). King Kamsa tries to kill the baby Krishna (Hindu mythology). The baby hero Sigurd was separated from his mother and in a bottle which fell into a river (Norse mythology). Balor tries to kill his grandson Lugh, but he escapes and survives (Irish mythology). Chief Shemwindo tries to kill his son Mwindo (Nyanga mythology from the Democratic Republic of Congo in central Africa). The evil red Rainbow King Nkongolo tried to kill the hero Kalala Ilunga, but he survived (Luba mythology from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, central Africa). Nzame throws his son Bingo out of Heaven (Bantu of the Congo mythology). Ceridwen abandons her baby boy Taliesen but he survives (Welsh Arthurian mythology). King Gargoris abandoned his son Habis (Tartessian mythology from Spain). Princess Kunti abandoned her baby son Karna (Hindu mythology). The evil Untamo tries to kill the baby boy Kullervo three times (by drowning, fire, and hanging). But the baby Kullervo survives. (Finnish mythology). Vainamoinen tried to kill Marjatta's son (Finnish mythology). Shun's family tried to kill him (Chinese mythology). The King tries to kill Cumong while he is still inside an egg (Korean mythology). The King's brother, Todong, tried to kill the boy Gesar Khan (Tibetan and Mongol mythology). The Big Bad Wolf eats Little Red Riding Hood, but she survives (European fairy tale). The Queen aka Snow White's step mother tries to kill Snow White (German fairy tale). Maleficent curses Princess Aurora so that she may die on her 16th birthday, but she survives after the Prince kisses her (French fairy tale). Hansel and Gretel are abandoned by their father and stepmother and attacked by a witch, but they survive (German fairy tale). Pryderi is separated from his parents when members of his mother Rhiannon's family steal him (Welsh mythology). "Daughter" (I couldn't find the character's actual name) is abandoned by her father and stepmother but survives (Russian fairy tale called "Father Frost"). Vassilisa was sent to the witch Baba Yaga by her stepmother, but she escaped and survived (Slavic mythology). Mariassa was sent by her stepmother to the witch Baba Yaga, but she escaped and survived (Slavic mythology). The boy Cuchulain was attacked by a guard dog, but he survived (Irish mythology). Momotaro didn't have human parents because he was born from a peach, and he was adopted by a childless couple (Japanese folklore). Nezha didn't have human parents because he was born from a ball of flesh (Chinese legend). The Monkey King Sun Wukong didn't have human parents because he was born from a stone (Chinese literature). Buddha’s mother died when he was still a child (Buddhist mythology). Maui was abandoned by his mother as a baby (Polynesian mythology). Tarzan was raised by animals (American literature). Mowgli was raised by animals (The Jungle Book, English literature). Lastly, the most obvious example of this type of story: Jesus, who as a baby survived being killed by King Herod in the episode called "The Massacre of the Innocents". Edit: The following are 3 more stories that I forgot to mention above: A legend about the historical figure Sargon of Akkad: Sargon is cast into a river by his mother (Akkadian legend). A legend about the historical figure Cyrus of Persia: A prophecy foretells Cyrus's destiny, and the hero baby Cyrus is ordered to be killed, but a herdsman saves him (Persian legend). The villain King Numitor has the hero baby Romulus and his twin brother Remus placed in an ark and left to drift away in the Tiber River in the hopes that they will drown (Roman mythology).
@@tothboy01 Your comment shoul've been pinned, and the fact you waist your time to actually write this much without much like, thx for so much reference i never even know existed. Edit: i know this comment has nothing to do with Zagreus in anything, but simply the amount of reference for mythology learning is fascinating
@@cuwumsatyr715 Yes, I remember the majority of them, some of them I have a bit more difficulty remembering though. I have been reading about comparative mythology and religion for a long time now.
I took a Greek mythology class in college and I never once heard about this guy, I’m really surprised too because his creation is WILD. I think this is one of my new favorite creations haha
Lol. We got Greek Mythology in elementary school. It was our first contact with how fucked up some things were in it, but eventually we got it mostly covered.
Zagreus is never ever talked about and I’m so glad you covered him this week I can’t wait for the Egyptian gods and their introduction to the messed up origins fam
I did know that Zagreus was real. When I was young, I was writing a book that included the greek gods in it and did a lot of research. A thing I did was that a lot of Gods took on different names as their roles changed and they gained power. The oldest name of Dionis was Zagreus and he was very much the son of Hades, being annoyed at how Zeus claimed to father everyone. I even included a note of "I am the god of fermentation, the process of destroying fruit to create something new and highly valued. Which sounds more like my father, the god of the sky and storms, or the god of Death and Wealth?"
In some accounts, Zagreus/Dionysus is refered to as "Zeus Cthonic", which literally means "Zeus of the Underworld"... Which means that he is HADES. So, another possible origin is that he is Hades himself, and son of Zeus, and inheritor of his throne. Zagreus/Dionysus may also be the son prophecized to take the throne of Zeus, just like Zeus took it from his father Chronus, and Chronus took it from Ouranus. In this version, he would be the twin brother of Athena, who were swallowed by Zeus when he swallowed their pregnant mother to prevent his birth. The truth is that Zagreus/Dionysus is a God that precedes the ancient Greece, probably a Micenean God (the civilization that existed BEFORE what we now understand as "Classic Greece"), and he is therefore older than the entire Greek pantheon, only later being incorporated to it, hence why there's so many discrepancies and incongruences. Whatever the case, Zagreus/Dionysus was one of, if not THE most powerful of all the Olympian Gods, even more so than Zeus himself - and he could dethrone Zeus if he wanted to. But my boy Dionysus here was just too chill to care about that
"I'm talking the worst thing Zeus and Hera have ever done" And I'm like 'wait! There is more? How long is that list and when will we reach the end of it?!'
Hera is a B!…capital B at that! 😂 she’s done sooo much dirty shit to her sons And daughters, but honestly, I kind of empathize with her(not sympathize) because Zeus was a fucking THOT!!…Zeus would fuck anything!..he’d fuck a rock if it could talk. 😂 Zeus is kind of a dead beat father too. It’s ridiculous…imagine having to put up with all that cheating bro. Lmao and not only cheating, but basically incest!…he’s fucked his own sisters!…that should tell you what kind of person Zeus is….but…then again…almost all pantheons have Gods who have incest with their own sisters and brothers…I’m talking Hindu Gods, Egyptian Gods, Roman, Greek, Norse, idk much about Chinese Gods but if I recall correctly the Japanese pantheon have Gods that have had incest sex with their brothers/sisters. Smh. The only mythology/religion that I know of that doesn’t involve any incest is Christianity and the other newer religions/mythologies and the only reason I call Christianity a mythology is because I have no idea if it’s real or not, how do we REALLY know that Christianity/Jehovah’s Witness are the real Gods when every single culture in the world has God’s. 🤷🏾♂️ it makes it really hard which is why I kind of empathize with atheist too…except I actually believe that there is a God…idk his/her name, but someone had to create the world we live in…we didn’t just arrive here out of thin air. And seeing as Christianity is a new religion and every single story in the Bible can be compared to another story from another religion or a mythology that makes it hard to believe that it’s the right religion. And Christian’s are so quick to call other religions fake or call it a “mythology” and that’s so dismissive and yet they’re the youngest religions out of all of the religions!! 😳
Something that is important to note about Zeus and Persephone's tryst is that a lot of those stories come from a time when Zeus and Hades would be combined into one god. That's why if you look up Melinoe's father, you'll get two different responses.
A lot of our information is incomplete. We don't think Hades existed in Mycenaean Greece as of current information from Linear B, so they might have been the same god once or he could have come from somewhere else. Poseidon was the chief deity back then and Persephone was his and Demeter's child. There was a whole dark age between then and Classical Greece where things were not recorded so we can't entirely be sure where Hades came from. Though few of Hades epithets do contain Zeus, including Zeus Cthonios meaning "Zeus of the underground."
Hades in general appears to be the result of the transition of king of the gods from Poseidon to Zeus and the general falling out of favor of chthonic gods that occurred at the same time. Given Hades' Zeus epithets, I'd guess that both Poseidon's position as king of the gods and his chthonic aspects got shunted onto Zeus first and only later did the chthonic aspects get splintered off to become Hades. Not exactly unheard of even in Greek mythology given that Pan and Hermes used to be one god and Aphrodite got splintered into 3 different versions of herself (the goddess herself evidently being the result of Astarte worshippers coming to Greece and Astarte evidently having splintered off of Ishtar).
@@clarehidalgo Let me clear this up. Years after Hades and Poseidon officially became different entitles, Orphism would start to combine Hades and Zeus. The epithets you refer to come from Orphist culture.
@@violeth2255 No. We know that Zeus was never originally an underworld god. We do know that in Orphism, years after Poseidon and Hades split, they treated Zeus and Hades to be the same god.
Before watching: Wait, isn't Zagreus another name for Dionysus? After watching :Ah, see, I think you got a few points that OSP left out back in their video about Dionysus.
5:00 Actually there is a very explicitly stated reason for Zagreus's death. The Fates had cursed Hades to be unable to have an heir after he inherited the underworld. Thats it. He could not be born into a realm that was of the dead, much less to god who did not originate from the underworld. This is also why Nyx is the one who is able to revive him (albeit with some time and a lot of effort) Anyways thank you for this video I am addicted to this Game and all of its Lore and Stories
@@silverfoot6079 Calling it strictly untrue isn't right either since we don't know the right translation for the word cerberus and it might just be 'spotted' like Ogden suggests
Can I just say i really love the game's depiction of demeter? We're so used to associating her with green and plants and all it's easy to forget she caused winter when persephone disappeared. I like how the artist decided to really hone in on that bit of the story and actually make demeter look like some sort of frost queen, makes her look very unique
Persephone is also known as Kore - which means "Maiden" (iirc). It's speculated that she was so fearsome that people back then refused to speak her real name, and only uses vague monikers for her like "maiden", or "daughter", to not get her attention.
I searched on google and it said that a cult that worshipped persephone took over anicent greece and because of this people began to worship her to the point hades was barely mentioned or forgotten
I really wish they made a Greek mythology movie with Hera as the main antagonist. So many adaptations choose Ares or Hades as villains, sometimes Zeus too. But Hera shows up in so many stories being particularly spiteful and cruel which would be really interesting to see in a movie or animated series.
there is the animated series "Blood of Zeus" in which hera is the villain, but the main character is from my knowladge not a real person in greek methology, it was still a nice watch tho 👌
@@lartts7483 Because a lot of Christian influenced society demonised various figures from other beliefs and mythology. Usually any sort of God of the Dead/Underworld was given similar evil conotations to Satan, so many depictions of Hades in stuff like Disney's Hercules or Justice League madd Hades evil.
You mean you haven't watch the series "Hercules: the legendary journeys" with Kevin Sorbo? It was a very popular series back in the 90s with something like 5 or 7 seasons. And the a agonist is... Hera.
I had never heard of Zagreus before this game (the game I had heard of from a YTer). I didn't realize it was a real, err, ... myth. Although I do remember reading some stuff about Dionysus that felt like I was missing part of the story. Very cool to get (a version of) the full story, and a decent explanation of the Dionysian Mystery religion. And I'm impressed with how good a job the game did with incorporating real myths ('real myths' sounds so weird), as well as its own mythology. Fricking Zeus. Sets his own brother up with his own daughter, but that's not enough. Then he has to diddle with the bride. The bride who's his own daughter. You know that sickle Chronus used on Uranus? Anyone still have that?
I'm so deep in the messed up mythos I was genuinely surprised when I saw this video just came out and then disappointed I already saw the newest video. In other words, your channel is more than worthy of a binge I am currently lost in 😂 please keep up the good work, stone cold sober or up in the clouds your videos always hit the spot 👌 one of the few I'll watch ads for
that's so kind of you to say! my friends and fam can't believe that anyone would voluntarily listen to me talk for that long 😂 I truly appreciate and am grateful for your support Jessica!
I have been showing your videos to my daughter. Now she is hooked on learning Greek Mythology. And my son is learning Nordic culture. Your videos have been wonderful for them! Thank you!!!
Its worth remembering that the myths evolved over the years, just like names of the gods. My professor said that originally many myths and stories could be about many other gods, but as the cult of Zeus/sky father grew more popular, other gods were being replaced by Zeus for the story sake. By this theory, Zagreus was possibly son of Hades and Persephone, but it was later changed for Zeus becuase he was more popular and less scary god. Its kinda the same as we do now with our superheroes stories.
same! I've clocked in 107 runs in 125 hours and I'm honestly not bored of it. they did such an amazing job making each run feel like you're making progress towards a goal
In some accounts, it's said that Hades and Persephone had two daughters, Makaria, goddess of blessed death and Melonië goddess of funeral rites and Makaria is also sometimes said to be the consort of Thanatos
jon I just wanted to comment as a long time fan, your uploads truly make my day, your videos are always entertaining, well researched, and make me laugh and give me the chills. you are a truly fantastic creator. have a good day!!!
My dad told me that myths and legends changed depending on the audience. So, perhaps the tale of Zagreus being Dionysus, was more popular because the audience wanted to hear about getting a different life?. Wish I knew of Zagreus before I wrote my own version of the Hades+Persephone myth, I named their son Hayden.
U had to dislike cause you decided to name the sin if hades and Persephone Hayden but honestly how that in typing it but doesn't seem that bad Hayden would have to be born in 19cen not ancient Greece tho.
The multiple births of Zagreus remind me of the story of the Conception of Cú Chulainn. He took 3 goes before surviving in the mortal world, and in the second conception, it is suspected that his father was also his grandfather...
I am actually super surprised you barely got to this game. It is amazing. Made me change my mind about rogue lite games. Always thought I knew most of the Greek and Roman myths. But this game introduced a whole bunch of new concepts and gods to me, Nyx being the stand out, and I have replayed that game 4 times. The dialogue, voice acting, and art style keep bringing me back. Great video, keep up the amazing work.
Then you should check out the other games made by the same people. Bastion, Transistor, and I think a few others. I am really happy that Hades ended up getting as popular as it has because their other games are awesome too
Greek mythology mainly focuses around the 12 Gods of Olympus and their shenanigans so it's no surprise that you are unfamiliar with lesser deities (even though most of em were extremely powerful and influential). Even different regions within Ancient Greece had different mythos for the same gods...
Yes finally! I've been trying to figure out this myth myself but couldn't wrap my head around it. Thanks for clarifying. Can you do one about Persephone and Hades' daughters?
Thank you for covering this! I hadn't heard of Zagreus before, or of the Hades game, so it was all super interesting. I think I'll actually get the game now cause it looked really well done.
I'm so glad I stumbled upon your channel a year ago. I love ancient/old folklore and stories, and the way you tell the stories are entertaining AND so knowledgeable! You really do your research and it shows; and I always learn something. Thanks so much for all the great videos!
Holy smokes! That's how Dionysus came about? My memory wants to say that when I was a teenager I had heard of his mother taking a potion to help her conceive (which I now find odd since it had to do with Zeus), but never of Zagreus. I love when modern stories, movies, games, etc. add little twists to the mythologies that 'could' be possible. I do it all the time with my own stories. It's almost like a game in itself, in my opinion. "What could I put that'll make people think on things?" This was awesome! Thank you for this new bit of info. Much appreciated.
I think both are considered correct. Think the confusion comes from multiple religions to Dionysus conflating the two gods and not quite syncing up with each other. Either way the stories are amazing
It's still primarily just one version of the myths that seem to imply that Zagreus and Dionysus are one in the same. Personally I like the version where Zagreus is Hades and Persephone's son, studying the myth's enough shows that Persephone eventually grew to love Hades, therefore it would only be natural that they have children together.
@@christianjohnson5379 I agree. It would make a lot more sense, since he is considered the god of rebirth. Since Hades is for those who have died (of course) and Persephone is the one who comes and goes from the underworld to visit her mother, Demeter, on the surface, Zagreus represents that cyclical embodiment of them both. At least, that's what it seems to be for me.
@@JonSolo I agree, and I think of several places that would fit nicely too. Xanadu, Shangri La, Tartarus, Asphodel, Helheim, Niflheim, Alfheim, the list goes on.
@@Girlwithdragonchariot I recommend giving one of your nectars to Cerberus as soon as you can. His keepsake gives you some more max health to work with. In my experience, that made the difference against Meg.
I started playing Hades last year but it's been a long while since I touched that game. Also I never finished it. Awesome game indeed and I couldn't resist playing it when I heard of it the first time because not only I'm a Greek Mythology nerd (reason for why God of War is also one of my favorite videogame franchises), Hades is my favorite God and him and Persephone are my favorite mythological couple. I never looked much into Zagreus' origin and this video was fantastic. I love the story created for the game and the real myth is incredible. But what absolutely surprised me is that connection between Zag and Dionysus. I knew D was considered the God twice born, but I never knew or heard about Zag being the one born from Zeus' thigh. Excellent video man!
I first heard about Zagreus from Grimm Fairy Tales comics and their "Godstorm" storyline. Thank you for researching him. I looked him up on my own before, and all the sources I found didn't make much sense. This explains why.
I like the picture of Hades holding Persphone that is in the intro. I also love how they are the Internet's favourite Greek mythological relationship (because it is the healthiest).
FYI, never heard of the game, but knew the myth. Interesting side fact, the first place I ever heard the name "Zagreus" was actually in 8th Doctor Doctor Who novels that I have *not* read but came across synopsises of.
When Hades came out I was so happy to have listened to OSTs Dionysus Video because it mentioned his connection to Zagreus. OST Videos in general made this game so much more fun to me
So many things in the Hades game makes sense now and makes me appreciate the game even more. Also, love your videos, I learn so much about these mythological figures.
I absolutely love these videos I’ve always loved greek mythology and just mythology in general and I’ve learned so much more watching your channel. Keep doing what your doing I love it every time
What if Zagreus is still out there some where? Since he is called the Great Hunter, and Dionysus has a habit of tearing people limb from limb (see the play Bacchae, where the Maenads kill Dionysus's nephew) everytime I hear about a dismembered limb found in a forest I think about Zagreus😱💀
I personally feel like the Zeus Zagreus could have just been the same name not person and maybe Hades named his son after his reborn nephew. Like maybe once he was reborn as dionysus Hades was like "cool name. Guess it's not being used anymore "
I loved the hades game, and i thought the "its just a prank bro" angle was brilliant. I also like him as the god of blood, as he is the driving force in reconciliation between the olympians and the cthonic gods (cthonics?). the only part that seemed really tortured was the hoops they went through to make sure no one ever slept with one of their relatives, because that was all over greek myths.
I finished the game, and being Greek, i know that it is very faithful to mythology, the only character i didnt know about was Zagreus so i though he has made up for the game, a 99% accuracy was still much better than the 10% most other media have, thanks for the clarification, it makes me love this game even more.
If you're looking for a video topic I suggest looking into the Norse myth about Sigurd and the dragon, I believe it's very similar to the story of Achilles but I don't remember all the details
This single video changed my view of every God, this store gave so much depth to the gods, both the og myth and the game version, I'm loving your channel so much dude, it just keeps getting better and better, thanks man.
So, watched some other greek lore videos about Zagreus (probably sparked by the game Hades as well) and when I got to the point of the game where Zagreus told the tall tale to Orpheus about him and Dionysus being the same person, I chuckled, then I heard the song Orpheus wrote (Hymn to Zagreus on the soundtrack) and I broke down laughing. Also Hades himself in game said it perfectly, to paraphrase "Garbage in, garbage out."
only just got round to watching this video (been binging a fair few of your vids as of late - great work, love the content!) and was wondering if you could analyse the other myths/legends portrayed in this game too? honestly i know i would be asking too much for a full game analysis, but i would be lying if i said that's not what i truly wanted
I recently enountered that part in the story where Dionysus convinced Zagreus to make Orpheus believe that he and Dionysus are one and the same. Zag later apologized to Orpheus saying that it was just a prank by the God of Wine. To think that all of these were actual Greek Myths. Supergiant games did their homework and more when making this game.
I've yet to play hades and only heard good things but I'm happy its got a lot of the original mythology weaved into the game. I would love to see Leshy from inscription covered.
10:25 honestly why in the world do bad guys think that by killing the child the parent will be so inconsolable they're prime for take over. Any parent worth their salt would be PISSSED AT SOMEONE KILLING THEIR CHILD! Esp when u consider all the things parents do when their child is attacked! U mess with Mama and Papa Bear u get the claws!
I think you forgot to mention that Zagreus has the Immortality, Healing factor, Superhuman Strength, Speed and Agility of a Deity. That's why he really can't die. Overall a really good video and on point. But theres so much undiscovered myth's about the lore of Zagreus which makes it even more interesting.
Yaaas! Good to see some love for Supergiant's Hades and good job telling the weird origin of Zagreus! I haven't been able to play any other game since I started Hades about a year ago. I've finished the game, but it's just so satisfying to keep going trying to FC everything. The dialogue and reactions of the characters are impeccable and even after all this time and after having been through the "true ending" a while ago, I'm still getting new conversations and quips. Genius.
This story is even weirder when you consider the theory that some scholars believe, in which Hades, Dionysus and/or Zeus were the same deity. 😹 I highly doubt that Hades and Zeus were the same dude, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dionysus was just Hades, since people basically wanted to party with Dionysus but no one wanted attention from Hades.
There were cults that plmade hades and zeus in to one good. In ancient times there were so many cults and differences in stories that almost anything you can come up with, there would be someone who believed it. The myths we have now are the ones that survived all this time and rewriting, translation, mistakes and cultural shifts. It would be highly interesting to see one of the first 'proper' Greek react to the modern myths and just see them be confused and utterly lost.
If I remember correctly Persephone and Hades did have a few children together. One of them ended up becoming the goddess of nightmares and ended up marrying Morpheus.
Nope. Makaria is said to possibly be a daughter of Haides but no mother is given. Melinoe is a daughter of Zeus and Persephone. So Haides and Persephone have not actually had kids together.
@@christianjohnson5379 this is true for certain myths but not for melinoe and makaria. they were only mentioned once in ancient sources (in which what IceQueen said is accurate), but all other "versions" are just made up by the internet.
Interesting that this shows up before we get lore Olympus season 2 part 2! Honestly it sounds like zagreus wasn’t actually Zeus’s son and just happened to hold the lightning bolt, I mean it’s not like there’s some forbidden Magic’s that only let Zeus use them so really it feels like it’s just coincidence. Just my opinion though. Honestly him being the child of Persephone also makes sense since she is the goddess of spring and when it’s winter shit dies and in spring things grow back and live again. Hmm I like the idea if there’s a piece of zagreus left if he’s killed or destroyed then he can comeback in turn being a perfect example of life, death and rebirth all in one. Immortality!
Had somehow missed this video and discovered it today after playing through some Hades! Absolutely love that game and all this mythology nerdy goodness
Hey, you might not read this, but I am really curious about the Greek reincarnation. I heard there’s five rivers, and Lethe (forgetfulness) is the one you have to drink out of before being reincarnated. If not, then you figure out where the Mnemosyne (memory) river is to retain your memories. However, Gods like forgetfulness, sloth, quiet, drowsiness, etc. all stand on guard.
Mnemosyne isn't the river; Rather, she's the Titaness of Memories. She can either give you water from Lethe to make you forget, or she can make you remember what you forgot. There is also the option to make you have the memories of another person, so that you can better understand them. That could also be a punishment of sorts, because it could make you go insane.
I'm just happy you above all others did a video on the game and poor little ol' Zagreus. I only knew about one of his messed up origins but to hear the others was definitely worthy a glass of strong ale and a feast as a bard sings his tale.
I really like the idéa that the more ridiculous stories from mythologies are just the gods lying and making jokes to humans. There are so many stories that just weird from all myths, doesn't matter if it's greek, norse, shinto, hindu or egyptian.
Ohhhh ! thats why Zagreus likes Dionysus so much in the game because i found it odd that you can buy a Dionysus poster and the only Olympian poster on the contractor out of all Olympians.
I do Dionysian revels at my property up on the mountain. And I am part of a group who does weekend long immersive theater, and do the story's of the Greek Gods. We have done the Orphic mysterys for 7 years. and I have worked with the Aquarian Tabernacle Church Of Wicca, who does the story of Demeter and Persephone, every year. It is pretty amazing. IO Dionysus!
Wow, seeing Zeus being a good father actually makes me even more sad that Zagreus died. Also damn, His wife was so bitter as that she had a baby killed? I'm surprised Zues didn't kill her.
For a video can you talk about Hades and Persephone's other kids? It was very interesting hearing you talk about Zagreus and I'd love to hear you talk about there other's too. I looked into it a bit myself but it was a bit confusing just like when I tried looking into Zagreus, but after your video his mythology makes since now.
Jon told me to make a blood sacrifice to the like & subscribe gods…then the thumbs up icon growled red when I clicked it on my phone & confetti exploded on my screen… Have I just made a blood pact with Jon solo’s channel???🫣 Also Jon is honoring Dionysus in his videos.. yeah he’s right in the edge of becoming a reconstructionist pagan. Someone call Ocean Keltoi.
Yo! This was incredibly informative and helped to tie together a lot of the stories in the game. I didn't know much about the mythology beyond some basics and it's fascinating to hear about how they tied in the actual mythology tales into the game.
The Orphic version of the birth of Zagreus is so disturbing that I really don't like thinking about it, I mean, I know the Greek gods didn't care about blood relations but even so, Zeus straight up raped his own DAUGHTER!! that's crossing a very thick line, it totally baffles me to think the king of the Gods in Greek Mythology was such a messed up monster and that people actually worshipped that monster... That's one of the many reasons I really Hate Zeus, he's just so gross and disturbing, Poor Persephone, she didn't deserved that.
Think of it as a parable of the vegetation cycle. Zeus is a sky and weather god, his "semen" is rain. Demeter is the fertile, cultivated land. She receives Zeus's rain and produces vegetation - Persephone (actually, in her "above ground" form she was called Kore, meaning "maiden"). But rain falls again on that new vegetation and makes it bear fruit - a.i. Zeus gets Kore pregnant. This is cultivated land... So people harvest the fruit, tear it apart and eat it - just like the Titans tear Zagreus apart and eat him. The "heart" of the fruit (the pit or seed) is saved, burried (a.i. put back into the womb of the Goddess) and is reborn... And the cycle goes on and on. People may have made the gods look and act like humans, but the underlying story is rarely human in nature. Hence the weirdness :)
@@ioanav5920 I'm sorry, but that doesn't make it any better, at least not to me, it doesn't make the story any less f*cked up, there are other ways to represent all those things that doesn't envolve something as messed up as straight up raping Your freaking daughter, at least that's my humble opinion, maybe I'm biased by my modern set of values, but honestly I don't care, I'd rather forget that this f*cked up story even exist.
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So danbooru huh? A man of taste I see.
Your ad legit made me want to try wine lol, I have had some before but couldn't describe the taste or anything nor do I know about wine. I would like to learn and enjoy it with dinner :)
Where's the Egyptian fuckery? I'm waiting for you to tell them about the lettuce, Jon. TELL THEM ABOUT THE LETTUCE
I thought hades had two daughters 🤔
@@wolffang3343 p
“His wife Hera couldn’t help but notice that baby didn’t come out of her.” I wonder how many times she has to think to herself this.
To be perfectly fair Hera has every reason in the world to be super pissed off. I feel like she gets a bad rap when in reality we should be shaming Zeus considering he is constantly committing adultery and trying to hide it from Hera. I honestly don't think she would be as pissed if every fling Zeus had didn't result in a child of some sort.
@@Jsizzlet Fr, I think she’s seen this way because people mostly look at it from the child’s perspective (Hercules, Zagreus, Perseus) where they’re the ones being targeted just for existing. We never get to see Hera’s view point on how she feels and honestly it’s sort of sad.
Not sure how accurate it was to what the Greeks believed, but I remember reading one story where Hera basically forced Zeus into marrying her so she could be queen of the universe. So I don't have complete sympathy for her.
To be fair, Hera wasn't all that "innocent" as she is commonly portrayed.
The 0roblem of course is she shouldn't target the children of Zeus rather just her husband. I don't care who you are the child is blameless and should not be killed for revenge on the father.
Hearing Zagreus was able to wield the lightning bolts reminds me of how according to some orphic cults, Dionysus was believed to be the child of prophecy who will take Zeus's throne.
Many stories and myths from different cultures around the world share the same type of theme: a prophecy is told about a child who would overthrow or kill an evil king or his own father. Another Greek myth is Perseus, where a prophecy said he would overthrow his own grandfather, King Acrisius of Argos, so the King had Perseus and his mother Danae put into a chest which was thrown into the sea in an attempt to drown them so that the prophecy would never come true. But like many heroes, Perseus and his mother survived and as an adult Perseus ended up killing his grandfather the King. I'll give a few more examples of these types of stories:
Zeus was almost eaten by his father Cronus (Greek mythology).
Heracles was almost killed by Hera as a baby, and after his death he ascended (Greek mythology).
King Priam of Troy tries to kill his son Paris (Greek mythology).
King Laius tries to kill his son Oedipus (Greek mythology).
King Pelias tries to kill the child Jason (Greek mythology).
King Athamas of Boeotia tries to kill his son Phrixus (Greek mythology).
Atalanta was abandoned by her father as a baby but survived (Greek mythology).
Asclepius was killed by his grandfather Zeus, but was resurrected (Greek mythology).
Pelops was killed by his father Tantalus, and then resurrected (Greek mythology).
Hippolytus was killed by his father Theseus, but was resurrected (Greek mythology).
Abraham tries to kill his son Isaac (Jewish mythology).
Pharaoh tries to kill baby Moses (Jewish mythology).
King Saul tries to kill David (Jewish mythology).
King Darius tries to kill Daniel by throwing him into the lions' den (Jewish mythology).
Lucifer was kicked out of Heaven by God (Christian mythology).
The King tries to kill the child Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythology).
The king of Egypt/god Set tries to kill the baby Horus by disguising himself as a snake (Egyptian mythology).
King Duransarun tries to kill the baby Zoroaster (Zoroastrian aka Persian mythology).
King Kamsa tries to kill the baby Krishna (Hindu mythology).
The baby hero Sigurd was separated from his mother and in a bottle which fell into a river (Norse mythology).
Balor tries to kill his grandson Lugh, but he escapes and survives (Irish mythology).
Chief Shemwindo tries to kill his son Mwindo (Nyanga mythology from the Democratic Republic of Congo in central Africa).
The evil red Rainbow King Nkongolo tried to kill the hero Kalala Ilunga, but he survived (Luba mythology from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, central Africa).
Nzame throws his son Bingo out of Heaven (Bantu of the Congo mythology).
Ceridwen abandons her baby boy Taliesen but he survives (Welsh Arthurian mythology).
King Gargoris abandoned his son Habis (Tartessian mythology from Spain).
Princess Kunti abandoned her baby son Karna (Hindu mythology).
The evil Untamo tries to kill the baby boy Kullervo three times (by drowning, fire, and hanging). But the baby Kullervo survives. (Finnish mythology).
Vainamoinen tried to kill Marjatta's son (Finnish mythology).
Shun's family tried to kill him (Chinese mythology).
The King tries to kill Cumong while he is still inside an egg (Korean mythology).
The King's brother, Todong, tried to kill the boy Gesar Khan (Tibetan and Mongol mythology).
The Big Bad Wolf eats Little Red Riding Hood, but she survives (European fairy tale).
The Queen aka Snow White's step mother tries to kill Snow White (German fairy tale).
Maleficent curses Princess Aurora so that she may die on her 16th birthday, but she survives after the Prince kisses her (French fairy tale).
Hansel and Gretel are abandoned by their father and stepmother and attacked by a witch, but they survive (German fairy tale).
Pryderi is separated from his parents when members of his mother Rhiannon's family steal him (Welsh mythology).
"Daughter" (I couldn't find the character's actual name) is abandoned by her father and stepmother but survives (Russian fairy tale called "Father Frost").
Vassilisa was sent to the witch Baba Yaga by her stepmother, but she escaped and survived (Slavic mythology).
Mariassa was sent by her stepmother to the witch Baba Yaga, but she escaped and survived (Slavic mythology).
The boy Cuchulain was attacked by a guard dog, but he survived (Irish mythology).
Momotaro didn't have human parents because he was born from a peach, and he was adopted by a childless couple (Japanese folklore).
Nezha didn't have human parents because he was born from a ball of flesh (Chinese legend).
The Monkey King Sun Wukong didn't have human parents because he was born from a stone (Chinese literature).
Buddha’s mother died when he was still a child (Buddhist mythology).
Maui was abandoned by his mother as a baby (Polynesian mythology).
Tarzan was raised by animals (American literature).
Mowgli was raised by animals (The Jungle Book, English literature).
Lastly, the most obvious example of this type of story: Jesus, who as a baby survived being killed by King Herod in the episode called "The Massacre of the Innocents".
Edit: The following are 3 more stories that I forgot to mention above:
A legend about the historical figure Sargon of Akkad: Sargon is cast into a river by his mother (Akkadian legend).
A legend about the historical figure Cyrus of Persia: A prophecy foretells Cyrus's destiny, and the hero baby Cyrus is ordered to be killed, but a herdsman saves him (Persian legend).
The villain King Numitor has the hero baby Romulus and his twin brother Remus placed in an ark and left to drift away in the Tiber River in the hopes that they will drown (Roman mythology).
@@tothboy01 Your comment shoul've been pinned, and the fact you waist your time to actually write this much without much like, thx for so much reference i never even know existed.
Edit: i know this comment has nothing to do with Zagreus in anything, but simply the amount of reference for mythology learning is fascinating
@@tothboy01 Do you remember all of these? If so then Damn that's impressive.
@@cuwumsatyr715 Yes, I remember the majority of them, some of them I have a bit more difficulty remembering though. I have been reading about comparative mythology and religion for a long time now.
Orphic Dionysus and Zagreus might have been the same guy.
I took a Greek mythology class in college and I never once heard about this guy, I’m really surprised too because his creation is WILD. I think this is one of my new favorite creations haha
i learned more about greek mythology from an hour of reading wikipedia than i did from a whole semester of greek mythology class.
I knew he existed because I needed names for my cat Persephone's kittens. 😆
What college did you go to? I’ve been interested in taking a Greek mythology class
@@suchendelokidottir5673 that’s freakin adorable!
Lol. We got Greek Mythology in elementary school. It was our first contact with how fucked up some things were in it, but eventually we got it mostly covered.
Zagreus is never ever talked about and I’m so glad you covered him this week I can’t wait for the Egyptian gods and their introduction to the messed up origins fam
He never talked about bc he 2 different people but one version of him more famous Dionysus
I did know that Zagreus was real. When I was young, I was writing a book that included the greek gods in it and did a lot of research. A thing I did was that a lot of Gods took on different names as their roles changed and they gained power. The oldest name of Dionis was Zagreus and he was very much the son of Hades, being annoyed at how Zeus claimed to father everyone. I even included a note of "I am the god of fermentation, the process of destroying fruit to create something new and highly valued. Which sounds more like my father, the god of the sky and storms, or the god of Death and Wealth?"
that's good
damn good
''real''
In some accounts, Zagreus/Dionysus is refered to as "Zeus Cthonic", which literally means "Zeus of the Underworld"... Which means that he is HADES.
So, another possible origin is that he is Hades himself, and son of Zeus, and inheritor of his throne.
Zagreus/Dionysus may also be the son prophecized to take the throne of Zeus, just like Zeus took it from his father Chronus, and Chronus took it from Ouranus. In this version, he would be the twin brother of Athena, who were swallowed by Zeus when he swallowed their pregnant mother to prevent his birth.
The truth is that Zagreus/Dionysus is a God that precedes the ancient Greece, probably a Micenean God (the civilization that existed BEFORE what we now understand as "Classic Greece"), and he is therefore older than the entire Greek pantheon, only later being incorporated to it, hence why there's so many discrepancies and incongruences.
Whatever the case, Zagreus/Dionysus was one of, if not THE most powerful of all the Olympian Gods, even more so than Zeus himself - and he could dethrone Zeus if he wanted to. But my boy Dionysus here was just too chill to care about that
"I'm talking the worst thing Zeus and Hera have ever done"
And I'm like 'wait! There is more? How long is that list and when will we reach the end of it?!'
Never . Hera is the worst
Hera is a B!…capital B at that! 😂 she’s done sooo much dirty shit to her sons And daughters, but honestly, I kind of empathize with her(not sympathize) because Zeus was a fucking THOT!!…Zeus would fuck anything!..he’d fuck a rock if it could talk. 😂 Zeus is kind of a dead beat father too. It’s ridiculous…imagine having to put up with all that cheating bro. Lmao and not only cheating, but basically incest!…he’s fucked his own sisters!…that should tell you what kind of person Zeus is….but…then again…almost all pantheons have Gods who have incest with their own sisters and brothers…I’m talking Hindu Gods, Egyptian Gods, Roman, Greek, Norse, idk much about Chinese Gods but if I recall correctly the Japanese pantheon have Gods that have had incest sex with their brothers/sisters. Smh. The only mythology/religion that I know of that doesn’t involve any incest is Christianity and the other newer religions/mythologies and the only reason I call Christianity a mythology is because I have no idea if it’s real or not, how do we REALLY know that Christianity/Jehovah’s Witness are the real Gods when every single culture in the world has God’s. 🤷🏾♂️ it makes it really hard which is why I kind of empathize with atheist too…except I actually believe that there is a God…idk his/her name, but someone had to create the world we live in…we didn’t just arrive here out of thin air. And seeing as Christianity is a new religion and every single story in the Bible can be compared to another story from another religion or a mythology that makes it hard to believe that it’s the right religion. And Christian’s are so quick to call other religions fake or call it a “mythology” and that’s so dismissive and yet they’re the youngest religions out of all of the religions!! 😳
@@Missielou66 I mean Zeus is the cause for 80% of tragedies
@@notme8652 atleast he has a sense of humor
really jove sucks
Something that is important to note about Zeus and Persephone's tryst is that a lot of those stories come from a time when Zeus and Hades would be combined into one god. That's why if you look up Melinoe's father, you'll get two different responses.
Ohhh I see now. Thanks
A lot of our information is incomplete. We don't think Hades existed in Mycenaean Greece as of current information from Linear B, so they might have been the same god once or he could have come from somewhere else. Poseidon was the chief deity back then and Persephone was his and Demeter's child. There was a whole dark age between then and Classical Greece where things were not recorded so we can't entirely be sure where Hades came from. Though few of Hades epithets do contain Zeus, including Zeus Cthonios meaning "Zeus of the underground."
Hades in general appears to be the result of the transition of king of the gods from Poseidon to Zeus and the general falling out of favor of chthonic gods that occurred at the same time. Given Hades' Zeus epithets, I'd guess that both Poseidon's position as king of the gods and his chthonic aspects got shunted onto Zeus first and only later did the chthonic aspects get splintered off to become Hades.
Not exactly unheard of even in Greek mythology given that Pan and Hermes used to be one god and Aphrodite got splintered into 3 different versions of herself (the goddess herself evidently being the result of Astarte worshippers coming to Greece and Astarte evidently having splintered off of Ishtar).
@@clarehidalgo Let me clear this up. Years after Hades and Poseidon officially became different entitles, Orphism would start to combine Hades and Zeus. The epithets you refer to come from Orphist culture.
@@violeth2255 No. We know that Zeus was never originally an underworld god. We do know that in Orphism, years after Poseidon and Hades split, they treated Zeus and Hades to be the same god.
Man, you and the Folklord have the coolest jobs ever. Researching cool historical folk tales and the wild stories about them.
WHo is the folklord? Tried to look them up and got taylor swift :( and the band folklore
Yeah I can't find the Folklore dude as Xonix mentioned
I'm so jealous
Umm, the FolkLord's socials are in the video, I don't remember the timestamp but Jon put them in the video.
Before watching: Wait, isn't Zagreus another name for Dionysus?
After watching :Ah, see, I think you got a few points that OSP left out back in their video about Dionysus.
Oh cool! OSP are awesome creators and their Dionysus video is one of their greatest IMO so nice to hear we found a few bits of info they left out.
5:00 Actually there is a very explicitly stated reason for Zagreus's death. The Fates had cursed Hades to be unable to have an heir after he inherited the underworld. Thats it. He could not be born into a realm that was of the dead, much less to god who did not originate from the underworld. This is also why Nyx is the one who is able to revive him (albeit with some time and a lot of effort)
Anyways thank you for this video I am addicted to this Game and all of its Lore and Stories
Fun fact: cerberus, when translated, is called spot... Hades is probably my favorite god in greek mythology
Unfortunately that is not true, and merely another inaccuracy touted by Internet users who think they know mythology
@@silverfoot6079 Calling it strictly untrue isn't right either since we don't know the right translation for the word cerberus and it might just be 'spotted' like Ogden suggests
That’s false bro, it’s more likely that his name means “flesh devouring”. His name derives from the word ceroboros.
Same
In Latin baby names.. cerberus = guard of hades... in sanskrit it means spot.. so they're not wrong
Can I just say i really love the game's depiction of demeter? We're so used to associating her with green and plants and all it's easy to forget she caused winter when persephone disappeared. I like how the artist decided to really hone in on that bit of the story and actually make demeter look like some sort of frost queen, makes her look very unique
Just want to point out that Greeks actually feared Persephone more than Hades
Reason? 8O
Why was the goddess of spring feared more then the ruler of the underworld?
Probably because myth of her and Demeter predate ancient Greece and by extention Hades.
Persephone is also known as Kore - which means "Maiden" (iirc). It's speculated that she was so fearsome that people back then refused to speak her real name, and only uses vague monikers for her like "maiden", or "daughter", to not get her attention.
I searched on google and it said that a cult that worshipped persephone took over anicent greece and because of this people began to worship her to the point hades was barely mentioned or forgotten
I really wish they made a Greek mythology movie with Hera as the main antagonist. So many adaptations choose Ares or Hades as villains, sometimes Zeus too. But Hera shows up in so many stories being particularly spiteful and cruel which would be really interesting to see in a movie or animated series.
there is the animated series "Blood of Zeus" in which hera is the villain, but the main character is from my knowladge not a real person in greek methology, it was still a nice watch tho 👌
Why tf would Hades be a villain
@@lartts7483 Because a lot of Christian influenced society demonised various figures from other beliefs and mythology. Usually any sort of God of the Dead/Underworld was given similar evil conotations to Satan, so many depictions of Hades in stuff like Disney's Hercules or Justice League madd Hades evil.
You mean you haven't watch the series "Hercules: the legendary journeys" with Kevin Sorbo? It was a very popular series back in the 90s with something like 5 or 7 seasons.
And the a agonist is... Hera.
I had never heard of Zagreus before this game (the game I had heard of from a YTer). I didn't realize it was a real, err, ... myth. Although I do remember reading some stuff about Dionysus that felt like I was missing part of the story. Very cool to get (a version of) the full story, and a decent explanation of the Dionysian Mystery religion. And I'm impressed with how good a job the game did with incorporating real myths ('real myths' sounds so weird), as well as its own mythology.
Fricking Zeus. Sets his own brother up with his own daughter, but that's not enough. Then he has to diddle with the bride. The bride who's his own daughter. You know that sickle Chronus used on Uranus? Anyone still have that?
In some versions of the myths Demeter kept it
@@s.nifrum4580 Makes sense. Surprised she didn't break it out after Persephone's 'elopement'.
I'm so deep in the messed up mythos I was genuinely surprised when I saw this video just came out and then disappointed I already saw the newest video. In other words, your channel is more than worthy of a binge I am currently lost in 😂 please keep up the good work, stone cold sober or up in the clouds your videos always hit the spot 👌 one of the few I'll watch ads for
that's so kind of you to say! my friends and fam can't believe that anyone would voluntarily listen to me talk for that long 😂 I truly appreciate and am grateful for your support Jessica!
@@JonSolo it's always nice to see another nerd out in the world making it, especially if I get to learn new things about old stuff 👌
I have been showing your videos to my daughter. Now she is hooked on learning Greek Mythology. And my son is learning Nordic culture. Your videos have been wonderful for them! Thank you!!!
A god's suffering, death, and rebirth (resurrection) sounds a lot like the holiday that we just celebrated, Easter. 🥚
Its worth remembering that the myths evolved over the years, just like names of the gods. My professor said that originally many myths and stories could be about many other gods, but as the cult of Zeus/sky father grew more popular, other gods were being replaced by Zeus for the story sake. By this theory, Zagreus was possibly son of Hades and Persephone, but it was later changed for Zeus becuase he was more popular and less scary god.
Its kinda the same as we do now with our superheroes stories.
literally OBSESSED with this game, so excited for this episode!
I definitely want to play this game again. I wish I can just relive that moment of playing it for the first time
same! I've clocked in 107 runs in 125 hours and I'm honestly not bored of it. they did such an amazing job making each run feel like you're making progress towards a goal
I'm so happy you've made a video on Zagreus! I've been hoping you would do one for a while, so this is sure to be great!
I share all your videos on discord!
Lol same
In some accounts, it's said that Hades and Persephone had two daughters, Makaria, goddess of blessed death and Melonië goddess of funeral rites and Makaria is also sometimes said to be the consort of Thanatos
jon I just wanted to comment as a long time fan, your uploads truly make my day, your videos are always entertaining, well researched, and make me laugh and give me the chills. you are a truly fantastic creator. have a good day!!!
thanks so much for saying so! appreciate you watching :)
My dad told me that myths and legends changed depending on the audience. So, perhaps the tale of Zagreus being Dionysus, was more popular because the audience wanted to hear about getting a different life?. Wish I knew of Zagreus before I wrote my own version of the Hades+Persephone myth, I named their son Hayden.
U had to dislike cause you decided to name the sin if hades and Persephone Hayden but honestly how that in typing it but doesn't seem that bad Hayden would have to be born in 19cen not ancient Greece tho.
@@sqbrazy3283 yeah, I based it on sounding like Hades.
Oh cool! I’m writing my own version of the myth too! It’s called Dying Pomegranates
@@sqbrazy3283why not have a Greek God born in the 19th century? Who knows what they've been up to since Greek times?
The multiple births of Zagreus remind me of the story of the Conception of Cú Chulainn. He took 3 goes before surviving in the mortal world, and in the second conception, it is suspected that his father was also his grandfather...
they're part of the same indo european religion group, so the connection is plausible!
God I love that game so much. I had no idea that Zagrus was a real god up til now.
Now I feel like playing the game some more. Thanks mate XD
I am actually super surprised you barely got to this game. It is amazing. Made me change my mind about rogue lite games. Always thought I knew most of the Greek and Roman myths. But this game introduced a whole bunch of new concepts and gods to me, Nyx being the stand out, and I have replayed that game 4 times. The dialogue, voice acting, and art style keep bringing me back. Great video, keep up the amazing work.
Then you should check out the other games made by the same people. Bastion, Transistor, and I think a few others. I am really happy that Hades ended up getting as popular as it has because their other games are awesome too
Greek mythology mainly focuses around the 12 Gods of Olympus and their shenanigans so it's no surprise that you are unfamiliar with lesser deities (even though most of em were extremely powerful and influential). Even different regions within Ancient Greece had different mythos for the same gods...
Yes finally! I've been trying to figure out this myth myself but couldn't wrap my head around it. Thanks for clarifying. Can you do one about Persephone and Hades' daughters?
I hope so! Melinoe is my favorite ♡
Thank you for covering this! I hadn't heard of Zagreus before, or of the Hades game, so it was all super interesting. I think I'll actually get the game now cause it looked really well done.
It came out just last year I think.
I'm so glad I stumbled upon your channel a year ago. I love ancient/old folklore and stories, and the way you tell the stories are entertaining AND so knowledgeable! You really do your research and it shows; and I always learn something. Thanks so much for all the great videos!
Holy smokes! That's how Dionysus came about? My memory wants to say that when I was a teenager I had heard of his mother taking a potion to help her conceive (which I now find odd since it had to do with Zeus), but never of Zagreus. I love when modern stories, movies, games, etc. add little twists to the mythologies that 'could' be possible. I do it all the time with my own stories. It's almost like a game in itself, in my opinion. "What could I put that'll make people think on things?" This was awesome! Thank you for this new bit of info. Much appreciated.
I think both are considered correct. Think the confusion comes from multiple religions to Dionysus conflating the two gods and not quite syncing up with each other. Either way the stories are amazing
@@redhex__1738 Good point. And very true.
It's still primarily just one version of the myths that seem to imply that Zagreus and Dionysus are one in the same. Personally I like the version where Zagreus is Hades and Persephone's son, studying the myth's enough shows that Persephone eventually grew to love Hades, therefore it would only be natural that they have children together.
@@christianjohnson5379 I agree. It would make a lot more sense, since he is considered the god of rebirth. Since Hades is for those who have died (of course) and Persephone is the one who comes and goes from the underworld to visit her mother, Demeter, on the surface, Zagreus represents that cyclical embodiment of them both. At least, that's what it seems to be for me.
Greek Myths literally just depend on who wrote them as everyone had different interpretations of what happened. This is just one interpretation
Do you think you'll end up creating a messed up origins for mythological places? I'd like to see your take on places such as Themiscyra and Atlantis
Definitely want to cover Atlantis one day. I'd have to look into some others that fit that niche.
@@JonSolo I agree, and I think of several places that would fit nicely too. Xanadu, Shangri La, Tartarus, Asphodel, Helheim, Niflheim, Alfheim, the list goes on.
@@JonSolo YESSSS PLEASE
I have beaten Hades twice, and I had no idea how closely it related to actual Greek mythology. Very cool to see!
by the gods how did you beat it? I can barely hit up a few rooms and then i die. I most certainly cannot get passed Megaera XD
@MrSydvirus When did you start? It's much much harder early on.
@@ericweiler2522 i just got it a month ago
@@Girlwithdragonchariot I recommend giving one of your nectars to Cerberus as soon as you can. His keepsake gives you some more max health to work with. In my experience, that made the difference against Meg.
I started playing Hades last year but it's been a long while since I touched that game. Also I never finished it.
Awesome game indeed and I couldn't resist playing it when I heard of it the first time because not only I'm a Greek Mythology nerd (reason for why God of War is also one of my favorite videogame franchises), Hades is my favorite God and him and Persephone are my favorite mythological couple.
I never looked much into Zagreus' origin and this video was fantastic. I love the story created for the game and the real myth is incredible. But what absolutely surprised me is that connection between Zag and Dionysus. I knew D was considered the God twice born, but I never knew or heard about Zag being the one born from Zeus' thigh.
Excellent video man!
I first heard about Zagreus from Grimm Fairy Tales comics and their "Godstorm" storyline. Thank you for researching him. I looked him up on my own before, and all the sources I found didn't make much sense. This explains why.
I like the picture of Hades holding Persphone that is in the intro. I also love how they are the Internet's favourite Greek mythological relationship (because it is the healthiest).
FYI, never heard of the game, but knew the myth. Interesting side fact, the first place I ever heard the name "Zagreus" was actually in 8th Doctor Doctor Who novels that I have *not* read but came across synopsises of.
When Hades came out I was so happy to have listened to OSTs Dionysus Video because it mentioned his connection to Zagreus.
OST Videos in general made this game so much more fun to me
When I took my highschool mythology class, this story was never mentioned.
Dang, Hera taking out her beef with Zeus out on his innocent babies!
That's just how Hera is.
So many things in the Hades game makes sense now and makes me appreciate the game even more. Also, love your videos, I learn so much about these mythological figures.
Please do Hades and Persephone's daughters next. Love your videos 😊😊😊
Yeah!
Exactly!!
Fitting considering the sequel we're getting
There is so much depth in this game, I feel like you can do an entire series about it
I absolutely love these videos I’ve always loved greek mythology and just mythology in general and I’ve learned so much more watching your channel. Keep doing what your doing I love it every time
What if Zagreus is still out there some where? Since he is called the Great Hunter, and Dionysus has a habit of tearing people limb from limb (see the play Bacchae, where the Maenads kill Dionysus's nephew) everytime I hear about a dismembered limb found in a forest I think about Zagreus😱💀
Um how many limbs are found in your woods?
@@lelandhenderson3396 idk about him but my woods produce 4-5 limbs per week.
In case you didn't know zagros is name of a mountain chain in Iran ( aka Persia )
Um..... that's a problem.
I did not know Zagreus was real but I've heard the Dionysus prank in game and never expected it to be an actual myth
Been watching you for almost 10yrs. Keep going strong dude
Holy Crap Hades is huge. I wasn't even aware that line of Dionysus and Zagreus existed. Since I didn't talk to Dionysus much.
ur videos never miss they’re always getting better each time omgggg!!
I personally feel like the Zeus Zagreus could have just been the same name not person and maybe Hades named his son after his reborn nephew. Like maybe once he was reborn as dionysus Hades was like "cool name. Guess it's not being used anymore "
Can't wait for the Messed up Origins of Dionysus. The Bacchae play of Dionysus and Penthesus was rather messed up. 🍷🍇
I loved the hades game, and i thought the "its just a prank bro" angle was brilliant. I also like him as the god of blood, as he is the driving force in reconciliation between the olympians and the cthonic gods (cthonics?). the only part that seemed really tortured was the hoops they went through to make sure no one ever slept with one of their relatives, because that was all over greek myths.
I finished the game, and being Greek, i know that it is very faithful to mythology, the only character i didnt know about was Zagreus so i though he has made up for the game, a 99% accuracy was still much better than the 10% most other media have, thanks for the clarification, it makes me love this game even more.
If you're looking for a video topic I suggest looking into the Norse myth about Sigurd and the dragon, I believe it's very similar to the story of Achilles but I don't remember all the details
The thing about Zagreus being cut into pieces reminds me of Set Betraying Osiris.
Great video, now that You've covered the messed up Origins of Zagreus all I can say is that I 100% prefer the game's version.
This single video changed my view of every God, this store gave so much depth to the gods, both the og myth and the game version, I'm loving your channel so much dude, it just keeps getting better and better, thanks man.
So, watched some other greek lore videos about Zagreus (probably sparked by the game Hades as well) and when I got to the point of the game where Zagreus told the tall tale to Orpheus about him and Dionysus being the same person, I chuckled, then I heard the song Orpheus wrote (Hymn to Zagreus on the soundtrack) and I broke down laughing. Also Hades himself in game said it perfectly, to paraphrase "Garbage in, garbage out."
"nothing can be given birth in the realm of the death" ı think Nyx says something like that in the game, that was why Zagreus was stillborn
Really interesting myths. It's cool that you covered a different angle and filled in some questions I had from OSP's Dionysus video
Another game with Greek mythology in it is Immortal Phoenix Rising, it's very similar to breath of the wild. And Zeus is really funny in it
only just got round to watching this video (been binging a fair few of your vids as of late - great work, love the content!) and was wondering if you could analyse the other myths/legends portrayed in this game too? honestly i know i would be asking too much for a full game analysis, but i would be lying if i said that's not what i truly wanted
Considering there is a trailer now for Hades II, I reckon there will be a return to the game lore and where it overlaps with actual myths. :D
I recently enountered that part in the story where Dionysus convinced Zagreus to make Orpheus believe that he and Dionysus are one and the same. Zag later apologized to Orpheus saying that it was just a prank by the God of Wine. To think that all of these were actual Greek Myths. Supergiant games did their homework and more when making this game.
So excited for this upload!
Greek mythology is the best! Thank you for this huge series! Keep it up! 💛
I've yet to play hades and only heard good things but I'm happy its got a lot of the original mythology weaved into the game.
I would love to see Leshy from inscription covered.
10:25 honestly why in the world do bad guys think that by killing the child the parent will be so inconsolable they're prime for take over. Any parent worth their salt would be PISSSED AT SOMEONE KILLING THEIR CHILD! Esp when u consider all the things parents do when their child is attacked! U mess with Mama and Papa Bear u get the claws!
The Greek gods were not very smart sometimes
@@genericname2747 Ur telling me!
I think you forgot to mention that Zagreus has the Immortality, Healing factor, Superhuman Strength, Speed and Agility of a Deity. That's why he really can't die. Overall a really good video and on point. But theres so much undiscovered myth's about the lore of Zagreus which makes it even more interesting.
After watching this video I feel like playing the game again thank you Jon
I love this channel, my “to go channel” when I wanna hear some mythology or folklore.
I love all of these videos, can't wait to see more myths
Yay!! Awesome video!
Yaaas! Good to see some love for Supergiant's Hades and good job telling the weird origin of Zagreus! I haven't been able to play any other game since I started Hades about a year ago. I've finished the game, but it's just so satisfying to keep going trying to FC everything. The dialogue and reactions of the characters are impeccable and even after all this time and after having been through the "true ending" a while ago, I'm still getting new conversations and quips. Genius.
This story is even weirder when you consider the theory that some scholars believe, in which Hades, Dionysus and/or Zeus were the same deity. 😹 I highly doubt that Hades and Zeus were the same dude, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dionysus was just Hades, since people basically wanted to party with Dionysus but no one wanted attention from Hades.
There were cults that plmade hades and zeus in to one good. In ancient times there were so many cults and differences in stories that almost anything you can come up with, there would be someone who believed it. The myths we have now are the ones that survived all this time and rewriting, translation, mistakes and cultural shifts. It would be highly interesting to see one of the first 'proper' Greek react to the modern myths and just see them be confused and utterly lost.
to be fair the origin of dionysus could be trace back to a god of underworld/death
I usually hate the twisting of mythology from what it seemed to have been meant to be, but I can't be mad at this one, this was great
If I remember correctly Persephone and Hades did have a few children together. One of them ended up becoming the goddess of nightmares and ended up marrying Morpheus.
Nope. Makaria is said to possibly be a daughter of Haides but no mother is given. Melinoe is a daughter of Zeus and Persephone. So Haides and Persephone have not actually had kids together.
@@IceQueen975 other versions of the myths say otherwise. There's always different versions of the Greek myths
@@christianjohnson5379 this is true for certain myths but not for melinoe and makaria. they were only mentioned once in ancient sources (in which what IceQueen said is accurate), but all other "versions" are just made up by the internet.
Sad that I skip all advertisements but I’m such an alcoholic that I saw wine and was immediately intrigued and watched the entire advertisement 4:47
I named my daughter Persephone. I always smile when I hear you mention her. ❤
You’re work is so fascinating, you’re slowly inching your own way into a divinity of sorts. How cool is that?
You should do the messed up origins of tyr.
thank you, again, for the birthday wishes Jon. you're the absolute best, and I can't wait to see more videos from you!
Interesting that this shows up before we get lore Olympus season 2 part 2!
Honestly it sounds like zagreus wasn’t actually Zeus’s son and just happened to hold the lightning bolt, I mean it’s not like there’s some forbidden Magic’s that only let Zeus use them so really it feels like it’s just coincidence.
Just my opinion though.
Honestly him being the child of Persephone also makes sense since she is the goddess of spring and when it’s winter shit dies and in spring things grow back and live again.
Hmm I like the idea if there’s a piece of zagreus left if he’s killed or destroyed then he can comeback in turn being a perfect example of life, death and rebirth all in one.
Immortality!
Had somehow missed this video and discovered it today after playing through some Hades! Absolutely love that game and all this mythology nerdy goodness
Hey, you might not read this, but I am really curious about the Greek reincarnation.
I heard there’s five rivers, and Lethe (forgetfulness) is the one you have to drink out of before being reincarnated.
If not, then you figure out where the Mnemosyne (memory) river is to retain your memories.
However, Gods like forgetfulness, sloth, quiet, drowsiness, etc. all stand on guard.
Mnemosyne isn't the river; Rather, she's the Titaness of Memories. She can either give you water from Lethe to make you forget, or she can make you remember what you forgot. There is also the option to make you have the memories of another person, so that you can better understand them. That could also be a punishment of sorts, because it could make you go insane.
I'm just happy you above all others did a video on the game and poor little ol' Zagreus. I only knew about one of his messed up origins but to hear the others was definitely worthy a glass of strong ale and a feast as a bard sings his tale.
I really like the idéa that the more ridiculous stories from mythologies are just the gods lying and making jokes to humans. There are so many stories that just weird from all myths, doesn't matter if it's greek, norse, shinto, hindu or egyptian.
Didn't hear about him on "Master of Olympus," but the game did touch on the Greek origin of mankind in the intro.
Fun fact: the known lore of Zagreus is referred to as a prank Zag and Dyonisus wanted to pull on Orpheus, who took it to heart and then spread it
Ohhhh ! thats why Zagreus likes Dionysus so much in the game because i found it odd that you can buy a Dionysus poster and the only Olympian poster on the contractor out of all Olympians.
I wanna play the game
I do Dionysian revels at my property up on the mountain. And I am part of a group who does weekend long immersive theater, and do the story's of the Greek Gods. We have done the Orphic mysterys for 7 years. and I have worked with the Aquarian Tabernacle Church Of Wicca, who does the story of Demeter and Persephone, every year. It is pretty amazing. IO Dionysus!
Daym, wish I could join...
Can you do monkey King
I always wondered why Dionysus was so chill to Zag even as I chose another G-d instead of Dio he still was chill af.
Wow, seeing Zeus being a good father actually makes me even more sad that Zagreus died. Also damn, His wife was so bitter as that she had a baby killed? I'm surprised Zues didn't kill her.
For a video can you talk about Hades and Persephone's other kids? It was very interesting hearing you talk about Zagreus and I'd love to hear you talk about there other's too. I looked into it a bit myself but it was a bit confusing just like when I tried looking into Zagreus, but after your video his mythology makes since now.
Jon told me to make a blood sacrifice to the like & subscribe gods…then the thumbs up icon growled red when I clicked it on my phone & confetti exploded on my screen…
Have I just made a blood pact with Jon solo’s channel???🫣
Also Jon is honoring Dionysus in his videos.. yeah he’s right in the edge of becoming a reconstructionist pagan. Someone call Ocean Keltoi.
Yo! This was incredibly informative and helped to tie together a lot of the stories in the game. I didn't know much about the mythology beyond some basics and it's fascinating to hear about how they tied in the actual mythology tales into the game.
The Orphic version of the birth of Zagreus is so disturbing that I really don't like thinking about it, I mean, I know the Greek gods didn't care about blood relations but even so, Zeus straight up raped his own DAUGHTER!! that's crossing a very thick line, it totally baffles me to think the king of the Gods in Greek Mythology was such a messed up monster and that people actually worshipped that monster... That's one of the many reasons I really Hate Zeus, he's just so gross and disturbing, Poor Persephone, she didn't deserved that.
Think of it as a parable of the vegetation cycle. Zeus is a sky and weather god, his "semen" is rain. Demeter is the fertile, cultivated land. She receives Zeus's rain and produces vegetation - Persephone (actually, in her "above ground" form she was called Kore, meaning "maiden"). But rain falls again on that new vegetation and makes it bear fruit - a.i. Zeus gets Kore pregnant. This is cultivated land... So people harvest the fruit, tear it apart and eat it - just like the Titans tear Zagreus apart and eat him. The "heart" of the fruit (the pit or seed) is saved, burried (a.i. put back into the womb of the Goddess) and is reborn... And the cycle goes on and on.
People may have made the gods look and act like humans, but the underlying story is rarely human in nature. Hence the weirdness :)
@@ioanav5920 I'm sorry, but that doesn't make it any better, at least not to me, it doesn't make the story any less f*cked up, there are other ways to represent all those things that doesn't envolve something as messed up as straight up raping Your freaking daughter, at least that's my humble opinion, maybe I'm biased by my modern set of values, but honestly I don't care, I'd rather forget that this f*cked up story even exist.
I never heard about Zagreus before and I'm glad you covered it :))
Wow you are so cool dude. 😎
When I saw you posted I breathed a sigh of relief