all car and caravan manufacturers would benefit from this video, its the best I have seen for weight explinations I have EVER seen period, very well done Cam, very well done
Cam! You should have seen the car salesman's face when I threw figures likes this around. I was so impressed with myself in being able to articulate what we need from our new tow van. Thanks so much for sharing this with us!
Great explanation. Good to see a worked example. Loved the magnetic visuals, haha. John Cadogan has a few vids on this subject. He's not a fan of the way car manufacturers promote their towing capacities, as it's always unrealistic once you crunch the numbers.
Again, another excellent vid, Cam and very well explained with the visuals and number crunching. It can feel quite overwhelming to sit down and learn about tow weights, axle weights and tow capacities. The first number crunch session I did took about 2 hours as we were looking at caravans that we could legally tow with the car that we had at the time. We were not prepared to purchase a new car, so we purchased a van that our car could safely and legally tow....and had to forgo certain things to meet that brief. It was an on road caravan without an ensuite and yet we still had awesome getaways with it. For our current tow vehicle, I insisted on a Pre Reg GCM/GVM upgrade, not so that we COULD tow 3.5 ton and travel at max GCM, but that we had that weight buffer safety net across the tow combination. We tow our current van loaded at about 3.2t give or take 50kgs with 270ishkg on the towball, again depending on what we have in the van and how it is loaded. People are also getting caught out with weights, such as what happened with the unexpected weight of your current tinnie, or vans that have changed furniture configurations, or have added after market battery systems, extra solar panels on the roof, or added an after market airconditioner or washing machine. Those weight additions are not reflected on the compliance plates of the van. So people can look at the plate and calculate the payload and towball weight of their secondhand, but new to them, caravan and can be overweight before they even put a stubby of beer in the fridge and a loaf of bread in the microwave. (that is where people store their bread, right?) Everyone looking at purchasing a second hand caravan (regardless of age) should be putting the van over the scales/weighbridge before parting with ANY money. Despite all of the youtube videos, write ups in car and van mags, and oline articles there are still so many obviously overloaded combinations up out there. But, I am also sure that with more people talking about this and reading about this, they are looking at their own setups and thinking it is time to get legal. Got carried away, as per usual. Sorry.
Absolutely agree with all of the above! And good on you for putting the effort into figuring out what you could tow legally before purchasing something. I do regret not looking into a pre rego GVM/GCM upgrade for the same reasons (a little bit of a buffer!), but at the time Tiff and I had no intention to ever tow a caravan. Haha how things change when kids come on the scene!!
Thank you so much for explaining this so well, as a single woman men seem to just say you will be fine, but this explains everything.....yes I believe I'm over loaded as we speak....thanks again for keeping it real ad always..
Great video! Was very comprehensive, and super easy to understand. This needs to be shared all over the internet. I just wanted to add/reiterate a few things for everyone. The caravan industry is rife with cowboys, and indeed the RV industry in general (boat builders, im looking at you..) Get the weights of whatever your buy in writing, and get it weighed as soon as you pick it up. If its significantly heavier than advertised, dont be afraid to take it back to where you bought it and shove it up their arse. It happens all the time, they leave off stuff like bedding, gas bottles, optional stuff, storage boxes etc off the total weight to make them sound better. So ask the question, what items are excluded from the weight, and how much extra does it all add up to. As mentioned in the vid, the 10% ball weight is a general rule of thumb, any ball weight (within reason) is good weight. Also as mentioned, the towing angles make a massive difference to how the car/van package handles. Also, particularly when buying utes, ask if the tray/tub is included in the weights. For example, utes advertised as 'cab chassis' are delivered with no tun or tray, and weight is listed to reflect that. A tub can be around 80-150ish kg, and trays anywhere from 100-400ish kg. So it pays to have that worked out, as it could be the difference between legal and illegal.
This would have to be the best video that I have seen explaining this important issue. Well done. I will share on caravan forums as every caravan owner must understand this issue.
Hi Cam. Great presentation. Easily understood & concise More significant, the combination of your knowledge, clarity & factual simplicity allowed me to create a spreadsheet using your data & now we can determine if a target vehicle & caravan will comply with mass limits. Sincere thanks.
Thanks Cam. Great explanation, should be compulsory viewing for all prospective caravan owners and plenty of current ones too. You have also validated my decision to get a GVM upgrade. Booked in with Peddars tomorrow.
Cam not sure what your day job is but you would make a great teacher. Love the way you used your own real example to build up what to most caravaners is a complex topic and often overlooked or not well understood. So your work here is much appreciated. We are currently setting up a touring rig with a new Prado and have a Pedders GVM pre-rego organised as part of the purchase price with Toyota. The GVM upgrade makes it possible to keep within that all important rear axle load as its usually the first limit to be exceeded when towing. With regard to your boat. There are other options like plastic fold-up boats like the Portabote. We took one around Australia quite a few years ago before I had head of GVMs. It was only 10 ft but only weighed 30kg. Not sure what the weight of the 4hp motor was. It could take my wife and two small children. You can get 12 ft versions of these now and they fold flat like surf boards. Good also to discuss the load capacity of your tyres on the D-Max when doing a GVM upgrade and loading up your vehicle. Is there a rule of thumb for the final load on tyres above the stated tyre rating limit? Thanks again for your excellent work.
Being a caravan owner who is very aware of the weight issues involved with towing, this is possibly the best explanation on the subject that I've seen. As a 40 year career truck driver who has had to deal with issues such as axle weights, GVM etc. on a daily basis, I struggle with how many caravan owners must be running overloaded. It is a complicated subject but as you say, for the safety of everyone you have to get it right. It's only a matter of time before the authorities realise there is easy money to be made by directing caravans into weighbridges like they do with heavy vehicles. Well done.
Cheers for the comment Dale. I think you're right mate, with more car manufacturers fudging the numbers, caravans being built bigger and heavier than ever before and so many people getting into into RVs- I think we will see the authorities clamping down on overweight rigs. It could be a pretty expensive mistake to make!
Just watching your video now, and I have to say you explain the whole situation from start to finish, gives me a great understanding of what I need to do to work out my set up. Well done mate!
One of the best videos I've watched. I actually do agree with not towing more weight than what the car weighs, if you've experienced a moment of defensive driving whilst doing so, you'll know exactly why. It comes down to training, and 99% of people on the roads haven't had it. One other thing to note that a lot of people don't account for is long term weight additions. Kids grow! And guess what, the things they take get bigger too. Bikes, clothes etc all get bigger and heavier as the kids grow, so if you're keeping the car long term you need to account for that
Hi Cam, Love the vids and watching the series. One thing that you say alot is 'legally'. There is a definitive gap between what is legal and what is safe. In most (?) cases, these are two very different things. I watched with hesitation when you had the GVM upgrade, but I think ultimately you need a bigger vehicle. Every thing seems to be at(near) the limit of the upgraded GVM or the GCM. Doesn't leave much wiggle room. Did you consider a truck, Canter or NPS size? Already has the higher GVM, higher GCM. A mIle of seat room in the back for the kids, and you can take the tinny. I say win win. As a side note check out John Cadogan on GVM upgrades from an engineers perspective. He puts another perspective on the whole GVM/GCM debate.
for a person who really doesn't understand, or pay attention when he hubby speaks, your informational video's are the best, the way you explain things is so easy to understand. On a side note I'm slightly devastated with your last few video's.....my favorite part is your welcome, "G'day guy's Cam Wild, Wild Touring " is missing. I know small things 😌
This needs to be adopted by the department of transport. And a link provided by all caravan sellers to customers. Caravan owners are some of the most dangerous road users out there, they are oblvious to weights. Nothing instills confidence to other users than seeing a 4wd/suv squatting so far down in the rear the front wheels are floating along the road.
Thanks so much for that Cam. We've had our van for 2 years + and never fully understood all this stuff. I've been very conservative so feel confident but your explanation will allow me to confirm all is well. BTW my wife and I have watched all your videos and look forward to each new one.
I know this is a late comment, but I felt compelled to share my experiences for the benefit of others. As a result of your excellent episode on this subject, I had my ute and van weighed. I own a 2013 Goldstream Wing 111 ST (wind up top and pull out beds) camper. As I only had the gas bottles both water tanks and two water jerry cans full, no bedding, food cloths etc I wasn't really concerned. However to my surprise the ATM was over manufactures specification by 177kg! That is the weight of my water. Now here is the reason I'm posting this: the chap weighing my rig told me it is not unusual for manufactures not to include full water tanks, stoves, fridges, cupboards etc when they calculate the TARE etc. So basically as soon as I put water in my van I'm over the limit. I think it's important that people are aware of this, particularly if they own a later model van. My ute is a whole other story. Thank you for putting doubt in my mind as to my weights and prompting me to do something about it.
@@WildTouring Thank you for your reply. I did screw up I meant earlier vans not later ones although it's pertinent to check. Not much I can do really, an ATM upgrade is my only option, I will engage an engineer to advise me of which possibilities are available. I will also need him to review my ute. Although it's not over my towing limit the weight over the rear axle is outside specs. It's an extra cab model and the bulk of the weight, batteries, fridge, generator etc are forward of the rear axle. I haven't come up with an expectable and practical solution moving weight forward as yet. Still early days.
Thanks Cam, One of the BEST explanations of these weight issues that face all of us travelers of this Great Country and taking our stuff with us!, Have found out the hard way you can’t build the ultimate camping setup and tow as well!, We are taking the Makocraft 3.46 tinny, yours obviously not working, shame awesome boat. Making some Canopy changes to make it happen as you . Keep up the Awesome content love following your adventures. Cheers
Thanks Cam well explained mate, this helped heaps with explaining the concept to my wife. We are looking into our first van (off road) and an upgrade to a decent tow vehicle.
Thankyou for simplifying this complex thing and it is so very important to get it right for sure. In an accident this is a lethal weapon of destruction
Just watched your video. Very well done. Best explanation I've seen so far. You did forget one thing regarding the tinnie. Regardless of GVM upgrades, payloads etc., the roof load limit remains the same. No upgrade will change that. I think like most 4wds, the limit is 100kgs with a few exceptions, which means you can't load much on top. It's a centre of balance thing. Once you include the rack, awning and tinnie, you're well over your roof load limit and insurance may not cover you in the event of an accident
That is the best way i have had it explained - thank you - really appreciated it - I have been really confused as to wether my Hilux will tow the van I have been looking at. Just need to book the car into Pedders for the GVM upgrade. Safe travels
Brilliant, that was the best explanation of terminology and how all the figures relate that I have found. The white board and pictures helped a lot, thank you. We just had a Pedders GVM upgrade last week to our Isuzu M-ux in readiness for our van.
Fantastic explanation, so clear and easily understood, thank you. I’ve only just subscribed and have really enjoyed the ones I’ve watched. I agree, rear axle weight limits are one to watch. There is a formula one can use and I did the calculation for my Discovery 4 and here is the formula and the calculation for my car. To calculate the actual ball weight affect on the rear axle; multiply the ball weight by the (vehicle wheelbase plus the rear overhang) and then divide the answer by the wheelbase. e.g. Disco:- w/b 2900mm overhang 1320mm Total 4220mm Camper towball weight 240kg 240 x 4.220 = 1013 1013 / 2.900 = 350kg on the rear axle. Perhaps your 60kg estimate is a bit under, but each car will be different. Thanks again for a great explanation.
Congratulations. Very well explained. There are so many grey nomads who evidently have no clue about their allowable weights and are a danger to themselves and all other road users.
Great Vid! - An important consideration is NEVER trust the tare weight plate of a caravan. Any modifications made to the van will increase the tare. It is a good thing to weigh every van BEFORE you buy it. Our Tare was 250k above the specified tare due to the previous owners adding solar and other things. Second hand vans are renowned for it.
Well done Cam. I had a bit of crack at you on the Pedders GVM upgrade cos you didn't mention the heavier the vehicle the less you can tow. Nailed it this time. That towball weight and the family in the car added onto the GVM catches a lot out.
Being in the transport industry weight is something that we're very conscious about, and I'm always concerned about the lack of knowledge out there. There seems to be a common comment that the sales man told me I'd be fine. Trust me the mermaids really don't care what you were told, you!! were the one driving. Also totally cracked up when you unhooked your little van and put the jockey wheel back. Very informative video 👍👍
Cheers Trev. Its a scary thing because car and caravan salesmen often don't have a sound understanding of the legalities either, and they're sometimes misinforming customers on something with serious safety and legal implications!
Very Good Job Cam, You have explained it very well. I remember when I first came across your Video's, I nearly didn't follow as you have a Child and we don't now but! I love what you do your Honesty, straight forward explainations, and you call a spade a spade, oh and finally the places your family have been and taken all of us along. Totally awesome. And yes that rear axle weight is the one people forget about. cheers and good luck with the new Van.
Great video, one of the best ones on TH-cam presenting this topic. A few ideas Can you keep the outboard in the van to help with gvm? And move it to ute when needed and not hitched. Do you need to have water tanks full on van? At caravan parks you can fill up there and how many nights in a row are you free camping? You could keep the ute water tank to do a water run if needed. I think you should get a lighter tinny and trim weight everywhere else.
Thanks Cam, a lot of research and effort put in this video and it is appreciated. Going to tell ppl to watch this rather then try explain myself! Loved the cut outs of car, caravan and boat so cute!
Class in session :) Took me a lot of research figuring this out my first time. You break it down very clearly im sure it will help out 'loads' of people...
Bloody great video Cam, best explanation I’ve seen. I did all these calculations before buying my Ranger Wildtrak X. I did a Lovells GVM / GCM upgrade pre-rego of the Ranger. Well done mate, great work, cheers 🍻
Hi Cam, was watching a program before yours and the said if you upgrade your car with air bags etc to carry more weight you shouldn’t because people are doing that and cracking there axles. The reason they say is whatever you go to above your axle weight limit when you use axle upgrades it’s still illegal because you are still over the safest factory limit. They gave 4 instances where the axles have broken in half. I hope this makes sense mate as it’s what they say not me. Thanks mate Jon🇦🇺 Take Care
Great video and well explained. One further thing to keep in mind, with the lack of regulation in the caravan industry, I have found that quite often the tare weight that is stamped on the compliance plate of the caravan (and mentioned in the brochure) is not correct and in some cases does not include batteries, Aircon and in some cases even spare tires. I have seen caravans that were 200Kg over the specified tare when weighed. This would put a lot of rigs over the legal limit if you're coming in close.
Good to see you are saying look at tare to suit needs. Payloads availability. Most tinnes on roof are overloading gvm or roof load limits. Unless dual cabs manufacturers put gvm plus tow atm to give a true gcm, one day maybe Well done vid
Great video. Realistically a safety weigh (car and vehicle) should be compulsory when a caravan, and/or trailer is sold. Also if a car is fitted or sold with tow equipment car should be weighed with owner in driver seat.
Great video, Cam and very well explained. So many out there would be overweight. We did the inflatable thing with our last trip. Searano inflatable with an inflatable floor (basically a big SUP board with inflatable tubes either side) comes in at 33kg. It certainly got us out there and we got some fish (mackies, tuna) though it makes you nervous pulling in a fish that is being chased by a shark when your transport is essentially a balloon. We have kept the inflatable, got a tinny and sold the van (Junko Swan). The inflatable got us out there but you need to factor 30 minutes set up and pack down.
Cheers mate, thats great feedback. I've been watching Rokkit Kit (on TH-cam if you haven't heard of him) island hopping on an inflatable and catching some awesome fish. Love the idea of that, would mean a lighter motor too. But yeah going offshore and croc country would make me pretty nervous haha
Hey mate, just subscribed today and watched this video. This is one of the most comprehensive videos I have seen about weights yet. Really great stuff 👏 Went through a similar approach after we bought our new caravan recently, especially given the Pajero towing limitation in regards to ball and overall weight. Cheers.
Nice video Cam. One thing to point out - the factory rear axle limit for the Dmax is actualy 1870kg, not 1600kg as you've mentioned. The total of the axle capacities is actually higher than the GVM off the factory floor, as it is for many 4WD's. Also, you can work out the weight transfer between the front and rear axles when you add the tow ball weight. It's simply overhang divided into the wheelbase. On your Dmax, 293kg tow ball weight will take about 130kg off the front axle, and put it on the rear, giving the total rear axle weight increase from the tow ball weight of 422kg.
Hi Aaron , I've actually been looking for this formula as I'm considering a light truck with a axle to tow ball overhang at 2 Lm ,3365 Lm wheelbase I've searched the D Max dimensions and still need just a little bit more help . I would much appreciate if you could share the numbers you used . Vehicles over hang can vary and just trying to make the right decisions before purchasing . Thankyou
You have hit a lot of nails on the head but have you driven any into the heads of people who are obliviously driving around illegal. I was set to travel around OZ last Jan in my new LC300 GR Sport, towing 3.5 ton van, but I'm still here in July waiting for the aftermarket segment to develop suspension and the like to let me do it legally. Your video , I think, just brings to light how many Vanners out there are totally oblivious to the fact that they are illegal on the road. I am not going to be one of them no matter the cost. We are in our 60's and believe it or not, my wife will be interested in what I believe to be one of the most simplistic explanations about towing and legal weights and loads. Keep up the good work.
Great explanation on the weights and terms. I have seen so many overloaded rigs and awareness is not there. Looking forward to seeing what you guys choose as the best fit 👍🍺🍻
Well delivered video buddy, I’m probably close to the limit or over towing my 2t caravan, definitely check it out, lov the whiteboard with the cutouts 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Well explained. I think the tinny has to go, plus all other you tube channels have tinnies and it would be good to have a point of difference. Your channel has remained different as you’re not driving around in a $250k stretched 200 series or plugging an expensive brand of caravan so you remain relevant to the vast majority of your viewers. I’m sure if someone offered you these products you’d jump at them as we all would. You can rent tinnies everywhere or jump in someone’s else’s.
@@WildTouring Agree With Anthony, its one of the things we love watching your Channel is that you do what most people can afford up to a point of cause. Watching these youtubers with a Stretched 200 or RAM and a Lotus or other van with a total cost of like 400k just isn't realistic for everyone. The way you laid out what you want/need from a van was pretty much like for like what we laid out on ours.
Another option is inflatable boat or inflatable kayaks ,get a bigger Ute rated to handle these loads, I if you don’t want to lose the tinny. Was the weigh of the outboard motor considered in the weights? Thanks for the explanation it was well done👍
Good video and good explanation. However (and I know this is a controversial subject and not everyone agrees) my concern is with using the term actual ATM for the van (i.e. the loaded weight of the van which is less than the plated ATM) and using this actual ATM weight to calculate your TBM and GVM. Using this actual ATM weight to say you are legal is fine. Now comes the accident and your van and belonging are spread all over the road, does the insurance company come along and picks everything up and weighs it all to confirm your stated actual weight or do they in their calculation just use the plated ATM of the van and ten percent as the TBM to calculate their version of the GVM. Just saying, it could be an interesting court case if the plated ATM of the van plus 10 percent as the TBW exceeded the vehicle GVM.
As usual Cam, another great video, I really enjoyed this one, You make it quite easy to follow..... Maybe it was the pictures helping my brain not sure but it makes sense to me the way you explain it and I miss school so the whiteboard was kinda cool :-) Keep it up mate. Always enjoy
Great Explanation Cam - again another great video👍👍- the rear axle loading is the devil in the detail - i dropped the tinny idea and went a Takacat 300LX - about 55kg total when you pair it with a 6hp outboard
Thanks heaps for uploading this video, great explanation. Ive been watching your video's all day today, such a great channel , so glad i came across it, I'm planning a big lap next year and all your video's are a great help, definitely will order some merchandise to give back what i have taken out . Happy Days.
Interesting vid the weight problems aren't going away anytime soon weighing my rig recently guy on the scales told all crashes with vans go to scales SunshineCoast Qld.. I tow with a LC 200 with 2.5 t atm van have gvm upgrade 3650 kg I am 1000 kg under gcm & 200 kg under vehicle gvm the kicker is with a TBW of 270 kg I am close to the rear axle load of 1950 kg limit. Personally with a Ute 2.5 t van would be my limit when you decide on a van weight as well as check the comp plate a few mates are over the stated plate . A rule of thumb multiply the TBW x1.5 gives close rear axle load. Cheers all the best 👌
Great video as always Cam! I stuffed up and had to buy a new car after getting the math wrong! Will say if forced to choose between tinny and winch, winch wins every time, it’s the bit of kit that if you never use it, it’s still not a waste of weight…. Well, that’s my opinion anyway :)
Cheers mate, you're not alone. I've stuffed up with the weight of the tinny! Winch is one of those things that I rarely use, but when I do I REALLY need it haha. Bit of an insurance policy hey!
@@WildTouring absolutely it is... got me, and our old camper out of a serious bog... had to unhitch and drag the bastard out with the car anchored to a very large tree!... wish I'd got footage, would have been great for our channel, but was before I put anything online
Very tight numbers with the van on. Yes you'll be under but not much of a margin. I'd be stripping some of that weight out anyway. You must be spewin about the tinnie. Great video and well explained.
Yeah I'd like a buffer with a set up like that to be honest. It's an awesome set up. Loved watching the build and rebirth of the DMAX. Now on to the van selection! With those weights you may have to go for something like a Jayco They seem to be fairly moderate in their weights. Can't wait to see the final set up!
Good video Cam you will have limitations on the type of caravan you get , the old cormal van which we have are ATM of 1550 gross weight 1995 kg twin axle 17 foot van semi off road , gross weight upgrades can be done .
Well done mate, I think all towers over 750kg should have to do a mandatory course on this stuff. I bought a set of digital scales I can drive on to give a rough idea if my weights. I can’t plead ignorance on this because of my occupation (if you know what I mean ) 😉👍
all car and caravan manufacturers would benefit from this video, its the best I have seen for weight explinations I have EVER seen period, very well done Cam, very well done
Thanks Robb!!
cheers mate, this would have to be the best video made on the topic. effectively explained using a real life situation that every tourer faces!
Cam! You should have seen the car salesman's face when I threw figures likes this around. I was so impressed with myself in being able to articulate what we need from our new tow van. Thanks so much for sharing this with us!
By far the best explained video on weight ever.
Great explanation. Good to see a worked example. Loved the magnetic visuals, haha.
John Cadogan has a few vids on this subject. He's not a fan of the way car manufacturers promote their towing capacities, as it's always unrealistic once you crunch the numbers.
Cheers mate!
Again, another excellent vid, Cam and very well explained with the visuals and number crunching. It can feel quite overwhelming to sit down and learn about tow weights, axle weights and tow capacities. The first number crunch session I did took about 2 hours as we were looking at caravans that we could legally tow with the car that we had at the time. We were not prepared to purchase a new car, so we purchased a van that our car could safely and legally tow....and had to forgo certain things to meet that brief. It was an on road caravan without an ensuite and yet we still had awesome getaways with it.
For our current tow vehicle, I insisted on a Pre Reg GCM/GVM upgrade, not so that we COULD tow 3.5 ton and travel at max GCM, but that we had that weight buffer safety net across the tow combination. We tow our current van loaded at about 3.2t give or take 50kgs with 270ishkg on the towball, again depending on what we have in the van and how it is loaded.
People are also getting caught out with weights, such as what happened with the unexpected weight of your current tinnie, or vans that have changed furniture configurations, or have added after market battery systems, extra solar panels on the roof, or added an after market airconditioner or washing machine. Those weight additions are not reflected on the compliance plates of the van. So people can look at the plate and calculate the payload and towball weight of their secondhand, but new to them, caravan and can be overweight before they even put a stubby of beer in the fridge and a loaf of bread in the microwave. (that is where people store their bread, right?) Everyone looking at purchasing a second hand caravan (regardless of age) should be putting the van over the scales/weighbridge before parting with ANY money.
Despite all of the youtube videos, write ups in car and van mags, and oline articles there are still so many obviously overloaded combinations up out there. But, I am also sure that with more people talking about this and reading about this, they are looking at their own setups and thinking it is time to get legal.
Got carried away, as per usual. Sorry.
Absolutely agree with all of the above!
And good on you for putting the effort into figuring out what you could tow legally before purchasing something.
I do regret not looking into a pre rego GVM/GCM upgrade for the same reasons (a little bit of a buffer!), but at the time Tiff and I had no intention to ever tow a caravan. Haha how things change when kids come on the scene!!
Thank you so much for explaining this so well, as a single woman men seem to just say you will be fine, but this explains everything.....yes I believe I'm over loaded as we speak....thanks again for keeping it real ad always..
Thanks Andrea! Happy travels!
Great video! Was very comprehensive, and super easy to understand. This needs to be shared all over the internet.
I just wanted to add/reiterate a few things for everyone.
The caravan industry is rife with cowboys, and indeed the RV industry in general (boat builders, im looking at you..) Get the weights of whatever your buy in writing, and get it weighed as soon as you pick it up. If its significantly heavier than advertised, dont be afraid to take it back to where you bought it and shove it up their arse.
It happens all the time, they leave off stuff like bedding, gas bottles, optional stuff, storage boxes etc off the total weight to make them sound better. So ask the question, what items are excluded from the weight, and how much extra does it all add up to.
As mentioned in the vid, the 10% ball weight is a general rule of thumb, any ball weight (within reason) is good weight. Also as mentioned, the towing angles make a massive difference to how the car/van package handles.
Also, particularly when buying utes, ask if the tray/tub is included in the weights. For example, utes advertised as 'cab chassis' are delivered with no tun or tray, and weight is listed to reflect that. A tub can be around 80-150ish kg, and trays anywhere from 100-400ish kg. So it pays to have that worked out, as it could be the difference between legal and illegal.
Agree with all of the above!
Thank you for the comment 👍
This would have to be the best video that I have seen explaining this important issue. Well done.
I will share on caravan forums as every caravan owner must understand this issue.
Thanks Peter, appreciate the comment and sharing of the video!
Hi Cam. Great presentation. Easily understood & concise More significant, the combination of your knowledge, clarity & factual simplicity allowed me to create a spreadsheet using your data & now we can determine if a target vehicle & caravan will comply with mass limits. Sincere thanks.
Cheers mate, glad it was useful to you!
Thank you. Your's is the best explanation I have found on TH-cam.
Thanks Cam. Great explanation, should be compulsory viewing for all prospective caravan owners and plenty of current ones too. You have also validated my decision to get a GVM upgrade. Booked in with Peddars tomorrow.
Cheers Chris! 👍
Thanks! Awesome clear info! Very helpful.
🙏 oh wow thanks Deanne!!!
Cam not sure what your day job is but you would make a great teacher. Love the way you used your own real example to build up what to most caravaners is a complex topic and often overlooked or not well understood. So your work here is much appreciated. We are currently setting up a touring rig with a new Prado and have a Pedders GVM pre-rego organised as part of the purchase price with Toyota. The GVM upgrade makes it possible to keep within that all important rear axle load as its usually the first limit to be exceeded when towing. With regard to your boat. There are other options like plastic fold-up boats like the Portabote. We took one around Australia quite a few years ago before I had head of GVMs. It was only 10 ft but only weighed 30kg. Not sure what the weight of the 4hp motor was. It could take my wife and two small children. You can get 12 ft versions of these now and they fold flat like surf boards. Good also to discuss the load capacity of your tyres on the D-Max when doing a GVM upgrade and loading up your vehicle. Is there a rule of thumb for the final load on tyres above the stated tyre rating limit? Thanks again for your excellent work.
Being a caravan owner who is very aware of the weight issues involved with towing, this is possibly the best explanation on the subject that I've seen. As a 40 year career truck driver who has had to deal with issues such as axle weights, GVM etc. on a daily basis, I struggle with how many caravan owners must be running overloaded. It is a complicated subject but as you say, for the safety of everyone you have to get it right. It's only a matter of time before the authorities realise there is easy money to be made by directing caravans into weighbridges like they do with heavy vehicles. Well done.
Cheers for the comment Dale.
I think you're right mate, with more car manufacturers fudging the numbers, caravans being built bigger and heavier than ever before and so many people getting into into RVs- I think we will see the authorities clamping down on overweight rigs. It could be a pretty expensive mistake to make!
I had a sore brain trying to understand this but this video is brilliant and communicated amazingly
Just watching your video now, and I have to say you explain the whole situation from start to finish, gives me a great understanding of what I need to do to work out my set up. Well done mate!
This is a very clear explanation thanks cam..I could see some sideline merch with the magnetic vehicles, detachable tow bar and van…..
Haha thanks mate!
Thanks for this mate - great explanation and helped me out heaps. Was like looking at the coaches board watching the magnets get moved around!
Well done, great easy to understand explanation of everything that you need to check before you spend money on the wrong weight caravan!
Excellent explanation. Everyone towing a caravan/trailer should get to know this. Looking forward to your video of final caravan choice.
Cheers mate!
One of the best videos I've watched. I actually do agree with not towing more weight than what the car weighs, if you've experienced a moment of defensive driving whilst doing so, you'll know exactly why. It comes down to training, and 99% of people on the roads haven't had it. One other thing to note that a lot of people don't account for is long term weight additions. Kids grow! And guess what, the things they take get bigger too. Bikes, clothes etc all get bigger and heavier as the kids grow, so if you're keeping the car long term you need to account for that
Cheers Jamie, all good points mate!
Hi Cam, Love the vids and watching the series. One thing that you say alot is 'legally'. There is a definitive gap between what is legal and what is safe. In most (?) cases, these are two very different things. I watched with hesitation when you had the GVM upgrade, but I think ultimately you need a bigger vehicle. Every thing seems to be at(near) the limit of the upgraded GVM or the GCM. Doesn't leave much wiggle room. Did you consider a truck, Canter or NPS size? Already has the higher GVM, higher GCM. A mIle of seat room in the back for the kids, and you can take the tinny. I say win win. As a side note check out John Cadogan on GVM upgrades from an engineers perspective. He puts another perspective on the whole GVM/GCM debate.
for a person who really doesn't understand, or pay attention when he hubby speaks, your informational video's are the best, the way you explain things is so easy to understand.
On a side note I'm slightly devastated with your last few video's.....my favorite part is your welcome, "G'day guy's Cam Wild, Wild Touring " is missing. I know small things 😌
This needs to be adopted by the department of transport. And a link provided by all caravan sellers to customers. Caravan owners are some of the most dangerous road users out there, they are oblvious to weights. Nothing instills confidence to other users than seeing a 4wd/suv squatting so far down in the rear the front wheels are floating along the road.
It's pretty concerning that there are so many overweight rigs getting around. I think its a mix of ignorance, misinformation and indifference.
Thanks so much for that Cam. We've had our van for 2 years + and never fully understood all this stuff. I've been very conservative so feel confident but your explanation will allow me to confirm all is well. BTW my wife and I have watched all your videos and look forward to each new one.
Thanks guys! Happy travels!
Thanks Cam. It’s amazing how many people don’t think about this and mean while they will care when they lost $150k when the insurance won’t payout.
Good explanation. Should be required viewing for all people towing caravans
I know this is a late comment, but I felt compelled to share my experiences for the benefit of others. As a result of your excellent episode on this subject, I had my ute and van weighed. I own a 2013 Goldstream Wing 111 ST (wind up top and pull out beds) camper. As I only had the gas bottles both water tanks and two water jerry cans full, no bedding, food cloths etc I wasn't really concerned. However to my surprise the ATM was over manufactures specification by 177kg! That is the weight of my water. Now here is the reason I'm posting this: the chap weighing my rig told me it is not unusual for manufactures not to include full water tanks, stoves, fridges, cupboards etc when they calculate the TARE etc. So basically as soon as I put water in my van I'm over the limit. I think it's important that people are aware of this, particularly if they own a later model van. My ute is a whole other story. Thank you for putting doubt in my mind as to my weights and prompting me to do something about it.
Thanks for the comment Bob. That’s really frustrating that you’re left with no payload. What’s your plan? ATM upgrade?
@@WildTouring Thank you for your reply. I did screw up I meant earlier vans not later ones although it's pertinent to check. Not much I can do really, an ATM upgrade is my only option, I will engage an engineer to advise me of which possibilities are available. I will also need him to review my ute. Although it's not over my towing limit the weight over the rear axle is outside specs. It's an extra cab model and the bulk of the weight, batteries, fridge, generator etc are forward of the rear axle. I haven't come up with an expectable and practical solution moving weight forward as yet. Still early days.
The best explanation on the whole weight debate. Thanks Cam a real ripper episode thanks so much👍👍👍
Thanks Cam,
One of the BEST explanations of these weight issues that face all of us travelers of this Great Country and taking our stuff with us!,
Have found out the hard way you can’t build the ultimate camping setup and tow as well!,
We are taking the Makocraft 3.46 tinny, yours obviously not working, shame awesome boat.
Making some Canopy changes to make it happen as you .
Keep up the Awesome content love following your adventures.
Cheers
Thanks Cam well explained mate, this helped heaps with explaining the concept to my wife. We are looking into our first van (off road) and an upgrade to a decent tow vehicle.
Thankyou for simplifying this complex thing and it is so very important to get it right for sure. In an accident this is a lethal weapon of destruction
Cheers mate!
Just watched your video. Very well done. Best explanation I've seen so far. You did forget one thing regarding the tinnie. Regardless of GVM upgrades, payloads etc., the roof load limit remains the same. No upgrade will change that. I think like most 4wds, the limit is 100kgs with a few exceptions, which means you can't load much on top. It's a centre of balance thing. Once you include the rack, awning and tinnie, you're well over your roof load limit and insurance may not cover you in the event of an accident
This was so good, thanks mate. Switching from a motorhome to a Ranger and caravan like tomorrow. Haha! Cheers
That is the best way i have had it explained - thank you - really appreciated it - I have been really confused as to wether my Hilux will tow the van I have been looking at. Just need to book the car into Pedders for the GVM upgrade. Safe travels
Thanks mate, glad it helped!
Brilliant, that was the best explanation of terminology and how all the figures relate that I have found. The white board and pictures helped a lot, thank you. We just had a Pedders GVM upgrade last week to our Isuzu M-ux in readiness for our van.
Thanks Ailsa, the Pedders GVM upgrade is good gear!
Fantastic explanation, so clear and easily understood, thank you. I’ve only just subscribed and have really enjoyed the ones I’ve watched.
I agree, rear axle weight limits are one to watch. There is a formula one can use and I did the calculation for my Discovery 4 and here is the formula and the calculation for my car.
To calculate the actual ball weight affect on the rear axle; multiply the ball weight by the (vehicle wheelbase plus the rear overhang) and then divide the answer by the wheelbase.
e.g. Disco:-
w/b 2900mm overhang 1320mm
Total 4220mm
Camper towball weight 240kg
240 x 4.220 = 1013
1013 / 2.900 = 350kg
on the rear axle.
Perhaps your 60kg estimate is a bit under, but each car will be different.
Thanks again for a great explanation.
Congratulations. Very well explained. There are so many grey nomads who evidently have no clue about their allowable weights and are a danger to themselves and all other road users.
Cheers Rob 👍🏼
Great Vid! - An important consideration is NEVER trust the tare weight plate of a caravan. Any modifications made to the van will increase the tare. It is a good thing to weigh every van BEFORE you buy it. Our Tare was 250k above the specified tare due to the previous owners adding solar and other things. Second hand vans are renowned for it.
Absolutely agree!
well done Cam, the best explanation of the weights I've seen.
Wow so much to get your head around, well done on the way you explained it Cam
Best video I’ve seen to date concerning weights.
Thanks!
Well done Cam. I had a bit of crack at you on the Pedders GVM upgrade cos you didn't mention the heavier the vehicle the less you can tow. Nailed it this time. That towball weight and the family in the car added onto the GVM catches a lot out.
Being in the transport industry weight is something that we're very conscious about, and I'm always concerned about the lack of knowledge out there. There seems to be a common comment that the sales man told me I'd be fine. Trust me the mermaids really don't care what you were told, you!! were the one driving.
Also totally cracked up when you unhooked your little van and put the jockey wheel back. Very informative video 👍👍
Cheers Trev.
Its a scary thing because car and caravan salesmen often don't have a sound understanding of the legalities either, and they're sometimes misinforming customers on something with serious safety and legal implications!
Great video, well explained in easy to understand language. We, wife and I , both got a lot out of it. Keep up the great work
Beautifully explained, I feel a lot more confident now in my choice of both vehicle and van. MDC here I come.. 👍
Cheers Jeff. We loved out MDC mate 👍
@@WildTouring I wish I had know you were selling yours, I would of definitely had it from you. I'm in Como.
Very Good Job Cam, You have explained it very well. I remember when I first came across your Video's, I nearly didn't follow as you have a Child and we don't now but! I love what you do your Honesty, straight forward explainations, and you call a spade a spade, oh and finally the places your family have been and taken all of us along. Totally awesome. And yes that rear axle weight is the one people forget about. cheers and good luck with the new Van.
I did not know that i had been camping with good will hunting all this time…genius cam dead set. I needed this explanation ill be honest thanks buddy
Cheers Pete!
Great video, one of the best ones on TH-cam presenting this topic. A few ideas
Can you keep the outboard in the van to help with gvm? And move it to ute when needed and not hitched.
Do you need to have water tanks full on van? At caravan parks you can fill up there and how many nights in a row are you free camping?
You could keep the ute water tank to do a water run if needed.
I think you should get a lighter tinny and trim weight everywhere else.
Thanks Cam, a lot of research and effort put in this video and it is appreciated. Going to tell ppl to watch this rather then try explain myself!
Loved the cut outs of car, caravan and boat so cute!
Cheers Tash!
Fantastic video Cam so well explained. As always clear and informative. Keep up the excellent work.
Thanks Peter, appreciate it mate!
Class in session :)
Took me a lot of research figuring this out my first time.
You break it down very clearly im sure it will help out 'loads' of people...
Bloody great video Cam, best explanation I’ve seen.
I did all these calculations before buying my Ranger Wildtrak X. I did a Lovells GVM / GCM upgrade pre-rego of the Ranger. Well done mate, great work, cheers 🍻
Been looking for an explanation as good as this for awhile.
Good job mate ! Thanks heaps 👍🏆🍻🍻🍻
Hi Cam, was watching a program before yours and the said if you upgrade your car with air bags etc to carry more weight you shouldn’t because people are doing that and cracking there axles.
The reason they say is whatever you go to above your axle weight limit when you use axle upgrades it’s still illegal because you are still over the safest factory limit. They gave 4 instances where the axles have broken in half. I hope this makes sense mate as it’s what they say not me.
Thanks mate Jon🇦🇺 Take Care
Well done Cam. The best explanation!
Excellent explanation Cam. This is best one so far I've seen. Love the visuals.
Thanks Cath!
Great video and well explained.
One further thing to keep in mind, with the lack of regulation in the caravan industry, I have found that quite often the tare weight that is stamped on the compliance plate of the caravan (and mentioned in the brochure) is not correct and in some cases does not include batteries, Aircon and in some cases even spare tires.
I have seen caravans that were 200Kg over the specified tare when weighed. This would put a lot of rigs over the legal limit if you're coming in close.
Good to see you are saying look at tare to suit needs.
Payloads availability.
Most tinnes on roof are overloading gvm or roof load limits.
Unless dual cabs manufacturers put gvm plus tow atm to give a true gcm, one day maybe
Well done vid
Thanks mate!
Great Video, well explained, easy to follow with no BS. Keep up the good work
Great video. Realistically a safety weigh (car and vehicle) should be compulsory when a caravan, and/or trailer is sold. Also if a car is fitted or sold with tow equipment car should be weighed with owner in driver seat.
Great video, Cam and very well explained. So many out there would be overweight.
We did the inflatable thing with our last trip. Searano inflatable with an inflatable floor (basically a big SUP board with inflatable tubes either side) comes in at 33kg. It certainly got us out there and we got some fish (mackies, tuna) though it makes you nervous pulling in a fish that is being chased by a shark when your transport is essentially a balloon. We have kept the inflatable, got a tinny and sold the van (Junko Swan). The inflatable got us out there but you need to factor 30 minutes set up and pack down.
Cheers mate, thats great feedback.
I've been watching Rokkit Kit (on TH-cam if you haven't heard of him) island hopping on an inflatable and catching some awesome fish. Love the idea of that, would mean a lighter motor too. But yeah going offshore and croc country would make me pretty nervous haha
Well done ! Very very clearly explained. Much appreciated. Best of luck with the caravan 👍
Well explained Cam. Now you have me worried about my weights.🤔
Cheers Brett. Don't stress mate, theres always options!
Hey mate, just subscribed today and watched this video. This is one of the most comprehensive videos I have seen about weights yet. Really great stuff 👏 Went through a similar approach after we bought our new caravan recently, especially given the Pajero towing limitation in regards to ball and overall weight. Cheers.
Cheers mate, appreciate the support and kind words!
Best of luck with the new van and your travels!
ohh look out!! good stuff guys, that's awesome too hear👏👏👏
Cheers Doug!
This explanation was brilliant! Thank you :)
Excellent, best explanation ive found. Thankyou
Thanks Cam, great info! Always appreciate your time and effort to do these videos and share your knowledge and experience to help us all 👍
Thanks!
Great explanation - still very current!
Well put together cam Will have to watch it a few times safety first when towing
Thanks Richard. Yeah it's something I had to read, reread and then practice a few examples on paper before it sunk in!
Nice video Cam. One thing to point out - the factory rear axle limit for the Dmax is actualy 1870kg, not 1600kg as you've mentioned. The total of the axle capacities is actually higher than the GVM off the factory floor, as it is for many 4WD's.
Also, you can work out the weight transfer between the front and rear axles when you add the tow ball weight. It's simply overhang divided into the wheelbase. On your Dmax, 293kg tow ball weight will take about 130kg off the front axle, and put it on the rear, giving the total rear axle weight increase from the tow ball weight of 422kg.
Cheers Aaron, enjoying your series north at the moment mate.
Hi Aaron , I've actually been looking for this formula as I'm considering a light truck with a axle to tow ball overhang at 2 Lm ,3365 Lm wheelbase I've searched the D Max dimensions and still need just a little bit more help .
I would much appreciate if you could share the numbers you used .
Vehicles over hang can vary and just trying to make the right decisions before purchasing .
Thankyou
Added to "Favourites". This will become crucial soon as wife wants to do some travelling through the country soon.
You have hit a lot of nails on the head but have you driven any into the heads of people who are obliviously driving around illegal. I was set to travel around OZ last Jan in my new LC300 GR Sport, towing 3.5 ton van, but I'm still here in July waiting for the aftermarket segment to develop suspension and the like to let me do it legally. Your video , I think, just brings to light how many Vanners out there are totally oblivious to the fact that they are illegal on the road. I am not going to be one of them no matter the cost. We are in our 60's and believe it or not, my wife will be interested in what I believe to be one of the most simplistic explanations about towing and legal weights and loads. Keep up the good work.
Glad I found your video. Best explanation!!!!
Great explanation on the weights and terms. I have seen so many overloaded rigs and awareness is not there. Looking forward to seeing what you guys choose as the best fit 👍🍺🍻
Cheers Luke. Yeah I think there are heaps of overweight setups on our roads, probably a mix of not understanding or simply not caring!
Very well explained. 👍👍👍👍
Well delivered video buddy, I’m probably close to the limit or over towing my 2t caravan, definitely check it out, lov the whiteboard with the cutouts 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Well explained. I think the tinny has to go, plus all other you tube channels have tinnies and it would be good to have a point of difference. Your channel has remained different as you’re not driving around in a $250k stretched 200 series or plugging an expensive brand of caravan so you remain relevant to the vast majority of your viewers. I’m sure if someone offered you these products you’d jump at them as we all would. You can rent tinnies everywhere or jump in someone’s else’s.
Cheers Anthony, stretched 200, tinny and a flash van would be bloody nice though!
Appreciate the comment mate, thank you.
did you include a motor for a tinnie?? thats gonna change everything again, sorry, LOL
@@WildTouring Agree With Anthony, its one of the things we love watching your Channel is that you do what most people can afford up to a point of cause. Watching these youtubers with a Stretched 200 or RAM and a Lotus or other van with a total cost of like 400k just isn't realistic for everyone. The way you laid out what you want/need from a van was pretty much like for like what we laid out on ours.
Another option is inflatable boat or inflatable kayaks ,get a bigger Ute rated to handle these loads, I if you don’t want to lose the tinny.
Was the weigh of the outboard motor considered in the weights? Thanks for the explanation it was well done👍
My 4WD is 6000kg with a GVM of 1200kg. It is also rated to tow 12000KG so a GCM of 24000kg. Gotta love the Unimog.
Nice, they're certainly good at hauling weight.
This is so very helpful. Thank you!!😊
Good video and good explanation. However (and I know this is a controversial subject and not everyone agrees) my concern is with using the term actual ATM for the van (i.e. the loaded weight of the van which is less than the plated ATM) and using this actual ATM weight to calculate your TBM and GVM. Using this actual ATM weight to say you are legal is fine. Now comes the accident and your van and belonging are spread all over the road, does the insurance company come along and picks everything up and weighs it all to confirm your stated actual weight or do they in their calculation just use the plated ATM of the van and ten percent as the TBM to calculate their version of the GVM. Just saying, it could be an interesting court case if the plated ATM of the van plus 10 percent as the TBW exceeded the vehicle GVM.
Mate this is an excellent presentation of all the important information.
Well done and thanks heaps.
Subbed👍
Cheers
Mick
As usual Cam, another great video, I really enjoyed this one, You make it quite easy to follow..... Maybe it was the pictures helping my brain not sure but it makes sense to me the way you explain it and I miss school so the whiteboard was kinda cool :-) Keep it up mate. Always enjoy
Well said mate .
I got a poly boot that cuts the guts out of weight .
Great Explanation Cam - again another great video👍👍- the rear axle loading is the devil in the detail - i dropped the tinny idea and went a Takacat 300LX - about 55kg total when you pair it with a 6hp outboard
Thanks heaps for uploading this video, great explanation. Ive been watching your video's all day today, such a great channel , so glad i came across it, I'm planning a big lap next year and all your video's are a great help, definitely will order some merchandise to give back what i have taken out . Happy Days.
Interesting vid the weight problems aren't going away anytime soon weighing my rig recently guy on the scales told all crashes with vans go to scales SunshineCoast Qld.. I tow with a LC 200 with 2.5 t atm van have gvm upgrade 3650 kg I am 1000 kg under gcm & 200 kg under vehicle gvm the kicker is with a TBW of 270 kg I am close to the rear axle load of 1950 kg limit. Personally with a Ute 2.5 t van would be my limit when you decide on a van weight as well as check the comp plate a few mates are over the stated plate . A rule of thumb multiply the TBW x1.5 gives close rear axle load. Cheers all the best 👌
Cam, I think you're goin to need a Bigger Truck 😉👍 good job on the Vid M8.... 👌
Great video as always Cam! I stuffed up and had to buy a new car after getting the math wrong! Will say if forced to choose between tinny and winch, winch wins every time, it’s the bit of kit that if you never use it, it’s still not a waste of weight…. Well, that’s my opinion anyway :)
Cheers mate, you're not alone. I've stuffed up with the weight of the tinny! Winch is one of those things that I rarely use, but when I do I REALLY need it haha. Bit of an insurance policy hey!
@@WildTouring absolutely it is... got me, and our old camper out of a serious bog... had to unhitch and drag the bastard out with the car anchored to a very large tree!... wish I'd got footage, would have been great for our channel, but was before I put anything online
Thanks for this video. best explanation I have ever seen
Very tight numbers with the van on. Yes you'll be under but not much of a margin. I'd be stripping some of that weight out anyway. You must be spewin about the tinnie. Great video and well explained.
Cheers mate! Yeah either way I want to strip some weight to give me a good buffer!
Yeah I'd like a buffer with a set up like that to be honest. It's an awesome set up. Loved watching the build and rebirth of the DMAX. Now on to the van selection! With those weights you may have to go for something like a Jayco
They seem to be fairly moderate in their weights. Can't wait to see the final set up!
Fantastic video Cam, very well explained
Good video Cam you will have limitations on the type of caravan you get , the old cormal van which we have are ATM of 1550 gross weight 1995 kg twin axle 17 foot van semi off road , gross weight upgrades can be done .
Thanks Cam, very well explained.
This is excellent mate. Thank you
Well done mate, I think all towers over 750kg should have to do a mandatory course on this stuff. I bought a set of digital scales I can drive on to give a rough idea if my weights. I can’t plead ignorance on this because of my occupation (if you know what I mean ) 😉👍
Maybe if you want a boat you need to consider one of those folding boats. I think the 14ft ones weigh in about 50kgs. Great explanation on weights.
Great video Cam, well explained, heaps of good info. Thankyou
Cheers Tim 👍