finally, a demo of a Rat that isn't blues licks and pentonic Satriani scales! great demo, really showcases how ferocious this pedal is for riffs and different styles.
TS (any version) actually gives midrange a heavy boost while cutting a lot of low end and high end. The guitar is a mid range instrument and distortion in this area is what gives the sound most distinctive character. So firstly, the sound is shaped by TS9, then what's left (the midrange) is distorted by Rat. This is also the reason many players use a OD or Distortion pedal to boost and clean the signal for solos.
Wonder why no one uses germanium treble boosters like Tommy Iommi and others used in 1969. I have to try mine into my Rat clone. I use small Marshall-type Ceriatone amps cranked with an attenuator and a little boost goes a long way.
Best example: The Rat between 1:09-1:19 and running it through the Tube screamer 1:20 - 1:50. Sounds so much better with the Tube Screamer, impressive. TS may be the most important pedal ever made, it makes an amp sound better and all the od/dist pedals as well. It's like giving the amp the final touch, "umpfh" and boost.
Competitors: Boss SD-1, Klon (and the various Klones) and my personal faves, the Boss OD-3 and a *Treble Booster* !!! Fuzzface probably the other "most important pedal ever made"
I don't get why people are so judgemental of the tube screamer. I've heard people say things like geez, I can't believe that's the sound people actually want... I'm of the mind that if someone doesn't like how it sounds, they're probably not using it correctly. Perhaps they tend to crank their potentiometers rather than delicately tweak them. . . Or it's possible that I don't know what I'm talkin about.... 🤔
@@GimmeJimmy23 The Tube Screamer sounds terrible by itself. Especially if used like a normal distortion pedal. It's grouped with pedals like the DS1, Rat, Fuzzface, and etc, but it's not anything like them, and if you treat them the same they sound gutless and fake. The correct way to use a tube screamer is as a boost and eq shaper, that also adds a hair of distortion that can work well with other types of distortion. Cranking the level and adjusting the drive to taste works well in Fender amps. I prefer using the RAT to thicken up the low end in a heavily distorted amp for heavier riffs, and switching to the tube screamer with the tone to the treble side to make solos shine more.
@@lobsterbark hmm, I like it. Great advice, and I can't wait to implement it, since I have a tube screamer and rat and a few other overdrive and distortion pedals. I hear what you are saying. Right now, I am using a rocket flex drive for my overdrive and I use a rat to thicken up the low end.... I've also been using an EP booster here and there to throw in some mids/low-mids when needed... And an mxr 10-band EQ at the end of it all... It's nice, when you start getting into a groove.... to be able to shape things exactly how you need them. No?
Haha, omigawd! When the tube screamer is engaged it fills out the sound so perfectly!! Delicious! I'm digging the chunky riffs you used to showcase the combination!
This video sort of highlights what I’ve previously found difficult to put into words...the tubescreamer is more of a “problem solver” than an overdrive pedal Low end is a little intense? Kick on the ts... High end is getting fizzy? Kick on the ts... This drive sound needs a little extra push over the cliff? Kick on the ts.. The front end of my amp just doesn’t feel good under my fingers tonight? Ts... Yeah, yeah...you can always adjust your amp. Of course, we all do that. But it’s not the same thing. The tubescreamer just has this eq curve/compression character that solves a LOT of problems for guitar players.
Just purchased a 1997 ProCo Vintage Rat reissue (Big box) that is on the way right now to complete my signal chain. Just can't wait to find my perfect dark and dirty Black Metal tone. I will surely try your trick. Pretty sure it'll do the job :) Ibanez TS9 -> ProCo Vintage Rat reissue -> JCM 800 2203 -> Marshall 1982A Cab (Celestion G12-80)
Finally bought a RAT2 nearly two weeks ago. Great pedal! Bought it primarily get more classic rock and punk tones. With the JCM 800 sim on my older ZOOM GFX-5, I can use the RAT2 to grab classic Obituary and Morbid Angel tones. With this combo, I can get some cool modern tones. The TS in front sort of 'wipes away' some of the fuzziness of the RAT2, and tightens the tone.
Rustam Sharifzanov I used to use my ZOOM live in shows where I had to go direct to the PA. It's mostly metal, with plastic switches and knobs. Very durable for me. Only thing I disliked was the slight delay in switching patches.
I do the same using a Digitech Bad Monkey to drive the Turbo Rat (i only use them in this configuration). This way you can keep distortion on the Turbo RAT around 11-12 o'clock and if more overdrive is needed you can dial in from the bad monkey. Great pair. I was surprised of the smooth leads it can produce.
I have a tube screamer and was considering buying one of these rat pedals after playing a mates. You’ve verified my hunch these would sound sick together! Cheers mate 😎
Started playing metal in the early 80s all I've ever used was a rat boosted with a tube screamer,all you ever need...back then was playing them through a 100 watt fender solid state on the clean channel.
These make a great pair and two of the best classic stompboxes! I run mine the other way(Rat-->TS) with a bit if delay and reverb into a Champion 600 to get a Slashesque Marshall tone! Great vid!
Yep, EQ pedals are so underrated. Every single guitarist should have one. But I see so many who don't. They're so useful, not just for shaping sound but even just as a boost pedal. I need to find one that has different settings you can save, and then switch to on the fly. Does the mxr one have that? I'll have to do some research
boost the RAT(1987 chipped mine is!) w/ a TS-9 then a MXR 'KFK' 10 band also, and a Decimator II to gate it all! that's what i do through 2 Blackstar* heads! (series one 100 watt & HT 100, 100 watt) going through a 1980 Orange 4x12 cab. Cheers all!
I have both of those pedals and I've never thought to do that! I have an original RAT from the 80's. It sounds like the TS9 is adding some nice mid focus as well. Can't wait to try it. Thanks for the tip bro.
Agreed. SD-1 into a JCM800 is how Zack Wyle achieved the solo tone for "No More Tears". I'm not a big Ozzy or Zack fan, but that's a great tone and solo. The song isn't half bad either, for someone who wasn't raised on cock-rock/metal. Nice structure, well-written and produced. Brian Wampler recently did a video on isolating the tracks from that song and then he tried to replicate it with a Friedman + SD-1 and then, he used a clean amp and a Plexi-style pedal + SD-1 as a booster to see if he could get the tone using that method. Great video.
Fuck YES! Part of the reason I bought a Rat. I also run a TS808 Tube screamer into the Rat and also a Little Big Muff Pi just for the variations in distortion.
I just torn apart my old 80s Rat to clean the jacks, pots, switch, everything! I took a pic of the circuit board. I wish I could post it because it said: PRO-CO SOUND INC KALAMAZOO MICHIGAN USA FUZZ TONES FOR THE CONNOISSEUR. THE RAT TYPE
The first time I saw this same gear combo was with a guy using a silverface Super Reverb. He used a Strat and a Custom SG. It was incredibly loud also. Nice demo.
@@urgidover timmy(pre gain/eq boost)-turborat-ts808-ocd-klon(post gain/fatty volume boost for leads) Stacks well together. You could try. I use the rat as fuzz too. It can do the job of a muff and ds1 making it my all time favorite distortion pedal.
I keep seeing differing opinions on whether or not the tube screamer comes before the rat.... I guess it depends on what kind of sound you're going for. I'm finding that both ways have merits, I just haven't decided which I like more yet.
@@GimmeJimmy23 I find it all depends what you're trying to do. TS>Rat = More gain, pushed leads, open harmonic content Rat>TS = More compression, more filter, more cut in the mix, less harmonic content. TS>Rat works better for solo'ing while Rat>TS is better for coloring and making rhythm parts stand out, in my opinion.
@@chipahoy3530 I will experiment to day's-end with your thoughts in mind. if I had to guess, I'm sure I'll have a comprable opinion, after I've done my "research." (playing endlessly until my calluses have become more substantial than the fingers themselves....)
Great demo! The RAT II is what you need if you want the classic Obituary tone. Ram that in front of a JCM 800 with the gain maxed out, bass on 10, mid on 1, and treble/presence at 6. Not sure how to set up the RAT II in that rig, maybe with all controls at 1 o clock. Been a while since I've done that, (don't currently own a tube amp) but it sure is massive sounding.
Yes, generally I wouldn't but this is Obituary we're talking about here. The 800s manage to have good note definition and clarity even when heavily mid scooped. That's why even death metal guitarists sometimes use this amp + a beefy overdrive pedal over some more modern amps.
Great match dude I love how the rat always results in a good combination with others overdrive pedals, the Hardwire tube overdrive into a proco rat would be an awesome match too, just because the separate low and high knobs, full distortion on the rat and lows at 9 o clock on the tube overdrive and boom! the fuzzier sound just disapear,
Trevor Perez is using a RAT with JCM800, that signature Obituary sound.. The second guitar always used a more focused and tight tone to complement with Trevor, add to that the massive bass guitar tone they always had and you got that crushing heavy Obituary sound.
Idk I personally still prefer the fuzzy sound of the rat on its own, but I guess the tubescreamer boost would be good if you need to play faster, and it needs to sound a bit tighter...
I have an old turbo rat and a TS9DX I use into an old 22 watt Mesa Boogie that has 6 preamp tubes and 2 EL 84's. I turn the rat down and push it with the Tube Screamer, sounds develish
I've owned several Rats throughout the years, but never could bond with them. Maybe that's because I didn't know this trick! Sounds much better this way.
Ditto to previous. 95% of guitar playing is rhythm, so let's demo on that, please. *thanks for pushing up the drive on screamer, need to get a little mojo in there (if there's no phase issues when stacking) *amazing how much the screamer pushed the pinch harmonics ahead. Added compression, I know, but tightening up low end works magic on how the brain interprets things as well....
Not quite. Most "tone" knobs are actually a very wide bandpass filter. Moving the tone all the way up gives you more high end, yes, but you also lose some bass. The RAT has a proper low pass filter, and, while it gives you high-end, it doesn't take away any lows.
Yeah a tone knob just allows certain frequencies to pass through but in most cases, you lose some other frequency ie: rolls off (shelves) lower frequencies Keeley put a filter instead of a standard tone knob on his Muff in the Darkside Workstation. Sounds killer, especially boosted.
Simon, I really like your videos, please keep doing them! I have a question about your stock RAT - do you find that it's quite 'boxy' chopping off some of the sparkle and openness of the clean sound? Your video suggests that it does and this ties up with my home-built RAT pedal. Problem is, I've never played a stock RAT so I'm not sure it's a 'feature' of the pedal or not.
Can you do the same using a TC Spark Booster or any other clean boost pedal with an EQ? i.e. add gain and turn down the bass. The Tube Screamer effectively cuts the bass a little and boosts the mid.
Does anyone use this the other way around, guitar->rat->ts9 ? With my Marshall JCM800 it sounds way more saturated and the tone has more low end that way. Especially for an 80s Thrash tone which I am looking for I prefer it that way. But I'm not sure if it's too muddy that way especially for live, the ts9 first sounds more polished and defined but lacks the low end for me...
Dude, have you tried the other way around, with the Rat first and the TS after? I ask because I use a Boss Power Stack first, and boost the signal with a Boss Bass Overdrive after (boost in the way most folks use these days, with the level at 10 and the drive at 0)...it takes away the warmness of the sound, and add some tightness in the low end and spank in the mid/highs, almost in a djent way haha.....if I put the overdrive first, it only adds some drive, and it doesn't make a lot of difference in the overall sound. edit: just saw now your vid of the overdrive experiment, but I'm still curious of distortion pedals been boosted by OD's in the manner I use above.
Hey man, your TS9 into RAT sounds awesome. When I stack RAT with TS9 I get insane amount of hissing noise. How do you manage to get a so clean sound? My TS drive is at noon and my RAT is at noon as well. Both pedals work quiet with all other pedals and quit individually. My TS and RAT don't get along, what should I do? :(
tightened that fucker right up...will have to try with my 808...the rat sounds much better with the tubescreamer in front of it! As mentioned below...thanx for the tip.
You were right. I don't understand fully what the phenomenon is but the gain and signal structure is suddenly just perfect when the Tube Screamer feeds the Rat. Thanks for the tip
I may be the only one in the world that uses this but, out of all my OD’s (maxon 808, ts9, to800, TS9b) the TS9b is what I’ve been using exclusively for months… yeah sure I bought it for my bass guitar, but curiosity killed that cat for me. The TS9b is so heavy and tighter on the low end then any other pedal. Anyone else use it for guitar or just me? 😂probably just me… oh well it’s wayyy too dank for me to keep it a secret tbh
I know this was 9 months ago lol, but this just happens when you stack pedals into high gain territory. It's normal and comes from the pedals having the effect of compression on your signal. The buzzing could helped by cleaning up your power, using an isolated power supply, removing or turning off lights or electronics in the area of your rig, or by using a guitar with humbucker pickups if you're currently playing one with single coils. You can also use a noise gate pedal to tame it. The feedback is just because of how high the gain is haha nothing you can do about that but lower the distortion knob on your rat or the volume knob on your TS if it's going into the Rat, or just move farther away from your amp.
Ok. So my OD goes before the distortion in the chain? Guitar>wah> OD>distortion>amp? I don't run anything else, nor do I plan to. Is that the right order?
If you use the OD to boost the distortion (to make it tighter and a bit more aggressive) then yes. You can experiment with the wah position, it gives different results when placed before or after the OD and distortion. And in the end there are no rules, try it and if you like it, great :)
What version of the rat is this? I built the LM308 chip version and it barely sounds like this. It sounds tighter then whats going on here when both pedals are engaged.
Ds2 equals op amp high gain/level distortion. Boosting it really isn't going to get you a great tone. It will get you something but ds1's and 2's don't need to be boosted lol. I'll share a secret that will make your tone sound epic. Use your tube screamer to boost another over drive. It's going to sound distorted as fuck but in an insanely articulate way. Unlike a distortion pedal that's got lots of gaon but no articulation. Boosting high gain pedals gives you sludge but boosting overdrives gives you high gain articulate magic. Everyone discovers it eventually. The best tones are going to come from pedals with less gain. Just cause they aren't distortions doesn't mean they can't sound brutal as fuck. My favorite combo is my ts9 into the klon clone I built, or my homeade treble booster into my klon clone for vintage highly articulate tight Brian may (or black sabbath when the full frequentcy boost is engauged) type tones. The klon clone is a warm full less articulate transparent overdrive so when you boost it with a ts9 it makes it tight an articulate and just feels so epic, it will certainly chug with the best of them. You'll learn on your own eventually but id recommend you stop buying high gain pedals and buy lower gain boosts and use them together or to boost your amp. That way your able to dial in light brake up to heavy distortion that stays articulate. Now if you want fuzz by all means buy a fuzz but "distortion" pedals are severely limiting in what they can accomplish. I wish I could show you what I mean cause it would blow your mind. You don't have to believe me but I guarantee the first time you boost a warm od with a treble booster or a ts9 a light is gonna go off in your head and you'll think "finally! That's how you get that tone" and you'll smile ear to ear. Try boosting an overdrive with a ts9 set to gain 0 level 75% and tone at around 60 to 80%.Distortion pedals are always gonna sound loose compared to using overdrives to boost ann amp or another od. Anyways I really hope ive convinced you to take my advice. I really really wish someone told me that 10-15 years ago. Overdrives are great and fuzz pedals are great but distortion pedals are 90% of the time sub par and won't get you any epic tones. Distortion in my opinion is just a way for pedal makers to make money off beginners or unskilled/uneducated players.
Oi m8! I've been learning guitar for the past 2 months, started with your vids, tahnks a lot! Never payed much attention to pedals and distortions and this kin of stuff, but what would you recommend if I wanted to get a motörhead kind of sound? Is there a good pedal for that or should I invest in a bridge pickup?
the boss ds- 1 (which is related to the rat and tubescreamer, curutry-wise, is the go to sound for classic hard rock, outside of a marshall tube gain circuit. The rat actually didnt get a good showing in this video because the rat pedal is extremely dependant on external eqing- the filter knob is not enough to get it going- and, yes, rats sound muddy when you turn the bass and distortion too high up at the same time, the mxl fullbor metal pedal is the same way. And for people who keep asking about getting the metallica sound- metallica experimented with distortion cascading a lot. they would run a rat into a marshall tube distortion circuit, or run a marshall gain preamp out into a meas boogie distortion circuit. You can get a rather thick distortion with the gain set around 10 oclock on 2 circuits, or experiment and find a balance. I modded an ibanex power lead to make it sound like a cross between a weak rat and a tubescreamer, and use that as an overdrive- cascading into other distortion circuits. it tightens up the sound quite right with the gain on the overdrive pedal set at 10 oclock, and the volume all the way up. It nearly makes my peavey audition practice amp distortion sound like an attenuated 5150 at full gain.
You shouldn't turn the distortion on a Rat any higher than 1:00. It's not a death metal pedal, it's more like an 80s cock rock pedal. It's notoriously muddy once you go past the middle, but it is very crisp on lower settings, especially if you dial in the filter just right. If you think it sounds better with the tube screamer set like this, try combining them with the Rat's distortion turned down lower - it's perfect! (I'm sure you know this, this is just a note for people watching who haven't used a Rat before, and think it's supposed to sound this terrible)
Personally, I like it because it gets muddy at higher gain settings. It just depends on what you like and what tone you're chasing. I play psych/stoner rock that borders on metal, and the rat at high gain fits that niche nicely.
finally, a demo of a Rat that isn't blues licks and pentonic Satriani scales! great demo, really showcases how ferocious this pedal is for riffs and different styles.
Thanks
Well - its all blues licks and pentonic
;)
Yeah, that shit gets annoying really fast.
GREAT!!!!
TS (any version) actually gives midrange a heavy boost while cutting a lot of low end and high end. The guitar is a mid range instrument and distortion in this area is what gives the sound most distinctive character. So firstly, the sound is shaped by TS9, then what's left (the midrange) is distorted by Rat. This is also the reason many players use a OD or Distortion pedal to boost and clean the signal for solos.
Good explanation!
Wonder why no one uses germanium treble boosters like Tommy Iommi and others used in 1969. I have to try mine into my Rat clone. I use small Marshall-type Ceriatone amps cranked with an attenuator and a little boost goes a long way.
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 could you suggest some germanium treble boosters
Couldn't you use a 10 band EQ to accomplish the same thing?
@@TheBoglodite You sure can!
Best example: The Rat between 1:09-1:19 and running it through the Tube screamer 1:20 - 1:50. Sounds so much better with the Tube Screamer, impressive. TS may be the most important pedal ever made, it makes an amp sound better and all the od/dist pedals as well. It's like giving the amp the final touch, "umpfh" and boost.
Competitors: Boss SD-1, Klon (and the various Klones) and my personal faves, the Boss OD-3 and a *Treble Booster* !!!
Fuzzface probably the other "most important pedal ever made"
I don't get why people are so judgemental of the tube screamer. I've heard people say things like geez, I can't believe that's the sound people actually want... I'm of the mind that if someone doesn't like how it sounds, they're probably not using it correctly. Perhaps they tend to crank their potentiometers rather than delicately tweak them. . . Or it's possible that I don't know what I'm talkin about.... 🤔
@@GimmeJimmy23 The Tube Screamer sounds terrible by itself. Especially if used like a normal distortion pedal. It's grouped with pedals like the DS1, Rat, Fuzzface, and etc, but it's not anything like them, and if you treat them the same they sound gutless and fake.
The correct way to use a tube screamer is as a boost and eq shaper, that also adds a hair of distortion that can work well with other types of distortion. Cranking the level and adjusting the drive to taste works well in Fender amps.
I prefer using the RAT to thicken up the low end in a heavily distorted amp for heavier riffs, and switching to the tube screamer with the tone to the treble side to make solos shine more.
@@lobsterbark hmm, I like it. Great advice, and I can't wait to implement it, since I have a tube screamer and rat and a few other overdrive and distortion pedals. I hear what you are saying. Right now, I am using a rocket flex drive for my overdrive and I use a rat to thicken up the low end.... I've also been using an EP booster here and there to throw in some mids/low-mids when needed... And an mxr 10-band EQ at the end of it all... It's nice, when you start getting into a groove.... to be able to shape things exactly how you need them. No?
@@lobsterbark How it would sound Rat pedal boosting big Muff and big Muff boosting Rat pedal?
Haha, omigawd! When the tube screamer is engaged it fills out the sound so perfectly!! Delicious! I'm digging the chunky riffs you used to showcase the combination!
This video sort of highlights what I’ve previously found difficult to put into words...the tubescreamer is more of a “problem solver” than an overdrive pedal
Low end is a little intense? Kick on the ts...
High end is getting fizzy? Kick on the ts...
This drive sound needs a little extra push over the cliff? Kick on the ts..
The front end of my amp just doesn’t feel good under my fingers tonight? Ts...
Yeah, yeah...you can always adjust your amp. Of course, we all do that. But it’s not the same thing. The tubescreamer just has this eq curve/compression character that solves a LOT of problems for guitar players.
Was having a lot of trouble with a new fuzz I got and the TS really does help.
Would It help solving Fuzz factory problems? Because, man, that thing is wild.
So true!
Completely agree. The key for me is the EQ curve, they nailed it with the design.
@@pacceli2009 I run a Fuzz Factory into a TS just to compress some of those spikes and tame the bottom end.
Just purchased a 1997 ProCo Vintage Rat reissue (Big box) that is on the way right now to complete my signal chain. Just can't wait to find my perfect dark and dirty Black Metal tone. I will surely try your trick. Pretty sure it'll do the job :)
Ibanez TS9 -> ProCo Vintage Rat reissue -> JCM 800 2203 -> Marshall 1982A Cab (Celestion G12-80)
That sounds pretty brutal!!!
Why the 1982a instead of 1960a cab?
Finally bought a RAT2 nearly two weeks ago. Great pedal! Bought it primarily get more classic rock and punk tones. With the JCM 800 sim on my older ZOOM GFX-5, I can use the RAT2 to grab classic Obituary and Morbid Angel tones. With this combo, I can get some cool modern tones. The TS in front sort of 'wipes away' some of the fuzziness of the RAT2, and tightens the tone.
I love it! :)
Zoom?awsome!) You have a pedals. Why you need to use this plastic which crapping sound??
Rustam Sharifzanov I used to use my ZOOM live in shows where I had to go direct to the PA. It's mostly metal, with plastic switches and knobs. Very durable for me. Only thing I disliked was the slight delay in switching patches.
I do the same using a Digitech Bad Monkey to drive the Turbo Rat (i only use them in this configuration). This way you can keep distortion on the Turbo RAT around 11-12 o'clock and if more overdrive is needed you can dial in from the bad monkey. Great pair. I was surprised of the smooth leads it can produce.
man you're rich now with that bad monkey
hm, this is so refreshing after tons of blues and satriani.
Thanks mate
Doom is just blues with gain
I have a tube screamer and was considering buying one of these rat pedals after playing a mates. You’ve verified my hunch these would sound sick together! Cheers mate 😎
This combo sounds really good with the Rat's distortion backed down a bit. Lots of clarity with the TS.
I think that's finally the tone I was lookung for since I play in a thrash band
The TS-9 seriously smoothed things out.
Started playing metal in the early 80s all I've ever used was a rat boosted with a tube screamer,all you ever need...back then was playing them through a 100 watt fender solid state on the clean channel.
I run this setup for a grindcore band. I keep my distortion set between 11-12 o clock and run volumes nearly wide open on both.
Nice!
classic Kill 'Em All tone
Thanks for the video!!!!
You really open my eyes, Now I love my RAT even more!!!!!
good video, straight to the point. i'm gonna try this setup out for sure
Nice. Because I'm not a metal type player, I would probably use half the gain on the Rat and bring up the drive on the Ts9 up to at least 10 o'clock.
holy shit great tone!
These make a great pair and two of the best classic stompboxes! I run mine the other way(Rat-->TS) with a bit if delay and reverb into a Champion 600 to get a Slashesque Marshall tone! Great vid!
Thanks mate
try boosting the rat with an eq pedal with mids cranked in a paramid shape. I use the mxr eq and it sounds sweet
Yep, EQ pedals are so underrated. Every single guitarist should have one. But I see so many who don't. They're so useful, not just for shaping sound but even just as a boost pedal. I need to find one that has different settings you can save, and then switch to on the fly. Does the mxr one have that? I'll have to do some research
@@duffman18 Boss has a 10 band eq with 4 settings you can save.
boost the RAT(1987 chipped mine is!) w/ a TS-9 then a MXR 'KFK' 10 band also, and a Decimator II to gate it all! that's what i do through 2 Blackstar* heads! (series one 100 watt & HT 100, 100 watt) going through a 1980 Orange 4x12 cab. Cheers all!
@@Arlo4511 thank you man. Only just saw this, a year later lol
I have both of those pedals and I've never thought to do that! I have an original RAT from the 80's. It sounds like the TS9 is adding some nice mid focus as well. Can't wait to try it. Thanks for the tip bro.
No worries mate
it sounds great with a Boss Sd1 boosting it too! that's what I use
Agreed. SD-1 into a JCM800 is how Zack Wyle achieved the solo tone for "No More Tears". I'm not a big Ozzy or Zack fan, but that's a great tone and solo. The song isn't half bad either, for someone who wasn't raised on cock-rock/metal. Nice structure, well-written and produced.
Brian Wampler recently did a video on isolating the tracks from that song and then he tried to replicate it with a Friedman + SD-1 and then, he used a clean amp and a Plexi-style pedal + SD-1 as a booster to see if he could get the tone using that method. Great video.
@Invert Your Cross hair metal
@Invert Your Cross I agree. \m/
Sounds Sabbathy with both on.
Yeah it does -- extra compressed
I get a Fu Manchu more than sabbath. I think Friedman's BE-OD is the sabbath side of things
I run my rat with a SD-1 drive all the way up and the amp treble all the way up, sounds pretty sabbath bloody sabbath
@@MrSnuffian Yes the SD-1 is fantastic with the rat!!
My thoughts exactly
you make me wanna play Sleep
Fuck YES! Part of the reason I bought a Rat. I also run a TS808 Tube screamer into the Rat and also a Little Big Muff Pi just for the variations in distortion.
@@JakelikejakefromSF4936 How it would sound Rat pedal boosting big Muff and big Muff boosting Rat pedal?
@@JakelikejakefromSF4936 dude, I just ordered the rat to match what you've got. I also use a boss compressor that helps loads with sustain
I'd use the Rat as more of a fuzz than try to use it as a distortion. After all, it is actually a fuzz circuit in it.
I just torn apart my old 80s Rat to clean the jacks, pots, switch, everything! I took a pic of the circuit board. I wish I could post it because it said:
PRO-CO SOUND INC
KALAMAZOO MICHIGAN USA
FUZZ TONES FOR THE CONNOISSEUR. THE RAT TYPE
Yep. It's what Gilmour uses live for the "Money" Fuzzface tone.
It's also what he uses in the intro and outro of "Sorrow" to great effect.
It's what I use for all my classic songs I play in my bedroom, to great effect !
The first time I saw this same gear combo was with a guy using a silverface Super Reverb. He used a Strat and a Custom SG. It was incredibly loud also. Nice demo.
I'm running my RAT between two drives... a Klon Klone --> RAT --> TS808 clone. I find it very versatile.
I would like to try this combination: fuzz --Rat - - ds1 - - ts9 - - Ocd, do you think this is crazy or it can works well?
@@urgidover timmy(pre gain/eq boost)-turborat-ts808-ocd-klon(post gain/fatty volume boost for leads)
Stacks well together. You could try. I use the rat as fuzz too. It can do the job of a muff and ds1 making it my all time favorite distortion pedal.
This is my live setup, a rat with a ts808 after it for leads. Killer
I keep seeing differing opinions on whether or not the tube screamer comes before the rat.... I guess it depends on what kind of sound you're going for. I'm finding that both ways have merits, I just haven't decided which I like more yet.
@@GimmeJimmy23 I find it all depends what you're trying to do.
TS>Rat = More gain, pushed leads, open harmonic content
Rat>TS = More compression, more filter, more cut in the mix, less harmonic content.
TS>Rat works better for solo'ing while Rat>TS is better for coloring and making rhythm parts stand out, in my opinion.
@@chipahoy3530 I will experiment to day's-end with your thoughts in mind. if I had to guess, I'm sure I'll have a comprable opinion, after I've done my "research." (playing endlessly until my calluses have become more substantial than the fingers themselves....)
I actually put it before my rat and then have a spark mini after the rat for the giant volume boost for solos. Works really good 🤘🏻
Great vid Simon! Well done bub.👊🏻🤓
I use a Russian big muff + ts9 and it's the same effect - they work great together. Maybe I'll get a rat too!
Untro I use an NYC Big Muff with a TS mini. It rips. :)
Such a nice vintage taste.
I use the same exact two pedals as my Main distortion!
Great demo! The RAT II is what you need if you want the classic Obituary tone. Ram that in front of a JCM 800 with the gain maxed out, bass on 10, mid on 1, and treble/presence at 6. Not sure how to set up the RAT II in that rig, maybe with all controls at 1 o clock. Been a while since I've done that, (don't currently own a tube amp) but it sure is massive sounding.
+Alex Ramos Don't ever put your mids on 1 ever.
Yes, generally I wouldn't but this is Obituary we're talking about here. The 800s manage to have good note definition and clarity even when heavily mid scooped. That's why even death metal guitarists sometimes use this amp + a beefy overdrive pedal over some more modern amps.
Great combination. Pure 🔥
This sounds beastly!!! YES!!
Great match dude I love how the rat always results in a good combination with others overdrive pedals, the Hardwire tube overdrive into a proco rat would be an awesome match too, just because the separate low and high knobs, full distortion on the rat and lows at 9 o clock on the tube overdrive and boom! the fuzzier sound just disapear,
franfender Good idea. I'll try it out!
Trevor Perez is using a RAT with JCM800, that signature Obituary sound.. The second guitar always used a more focused and tight tone to complement with Trevor, add to that the massive bass guitar tone they always had and you got that crushing heavy Obituary sound.
Amazing sound
Idk I personally still prefer the fuzzy sound of the rat on its own, but I guess the tubescreamer boost would be good if you need to play faster, and it needs to sound a bit tighter...
*Sounds amazing.*
I like rolling the tone knob all the way down on the Tube Screamer and having the filter knob on the Rat anywhere between 11 and 2 o’clock
Man, that's a sick combo
"But first, my clean tone"
Thanks. Great vid!
I have had this setup with a turbo rat through an orange mini terror.
The RAT is the fucking best pedal man. So thick and mean. Being able to tighten it up with just the TS makes it way more practical
I have an old turbo rat and a TS9DX I use into an old 22 watt Mesa Boogie that has 6 preamp tubes and 2 EL 84's. I turn the rat down and push it with the Tube Screamer, sounds develish
sustain for DAYS holy shit
Les Paul power!!!
I've owned several Rats throughout the years, but never could bond with them. Maybe that's because I didn't know this trick! Sounds much better this way.
I do the same with a compressor before it. set the distortion about 1 o clock and it sounds great
Ditto to previous. 95% of guitar playing is rhythm, so let's demo on that, please.
*thanks for pushing up the drive on screamer, need to get a little mojo in there (if there's no phase issues when stacking)
*amazing how much the screamer pushed the pinch harmonics ahead. Added compression, I know, but tightening up low end works magic on how the brain interprets things as well....
How it would sound Rat pedal boosting big Muff and big Muff boosting Rat pedal?
Looks like 95% of guitar players need to up their game.
I use the same set up. Real good!
so a filter is basically a reversed tone knob? :o
A tone knob IS a filter, it's just labeled as to what it affects, not it's technical function.
oooh okay got it.. thanks ^_^'
Not quite. Most "tone" knobs are actually a very wide bandpass filter. Moving the tone all the way up gives you more high end, yes, but you also lose some bass. The RAT has a proper low pass filter, and, while it gives you high-end, it doesn't take away any lows.
Yeah a tone knob just allows certain frequencies to pass through but in most cases, you lose some other frequency ie: rolls off (shelves) lower frequencies
Keeley put a filter instead of a standard tone knob on his Muff in the Darkside Workstation. Sounds killer, especially boosted.
Easiest way to tight up a RAT is with the distortion around noon and the filter around 10:00.
What about putting the stabby harsh rat into the ts9 ?
Holy shit that Megadeth bit sounded badass
This is my set up too. Expect I’m looking into an older ratt with more fuzzzzz
My rat sounds like shit whenever I turn the volume over a quarter way. I'll definitely try this out.
My balls dropped when you kicked the ts9 in. Dafuq is this monster
Throw the HM2 in that blend!
i think i prefer the sound of the rat on its own. but the ibanez would help it cut through if the drummer was loud
same a way more dirty
Simon, I really like your videos, please keep doing them! I have a question about your stock RAT - do you find that it's quite 'boxy' chopping off some of the sparkle and openness of the clean sound? Your video suggests that it does and this ties up with my home-built RAT pedal. Problem is, I've never played a stock RAT so I'm not sure it's a 'feature' of the pedal or not.
Can you do the same using a TC Spark Booster or any other clean boost pedal with an EQ? i.e. add gain and turn down the bass. The Tube Screamer effectively cuts the bass a little and boosts the mid.
i put a compressor before it and set the distortion gain about 2 o clock..less fuzz and more of a distortion if you like it so
Amazing sound! 😈🎸👌🏽
***** Thanks my friend
Dam that works great, cheers 🤘
distortion on full the whole time? gotta put it 1 or 2 not that much
If you would put another distortion pedal apart from this two in this signal chain, where would you put it?
Does anyone use this the other way around, guitar->rat->ts9 ? With my Marshall JCM800 it sounds way more saturated and the tone has more low end that way. Especially for an 80s Thrash tone which I am looking for I prefer it that way. But I'm not sure if it's too muddy that way especially for live, the ts9 first sounds more polished and defined but lacks the low end for me...
I obviously haven’t heard it but I’d switch the order for live
Dude, have you tried the other way around, with the Rat first and the TS after?
I ask because I use a Boss Power Stack first, and boost the signal with a Boss Bass Overdrive after (boost in the way most folks use these days, with the level at 10 and the drive at 0)...it takes away the warmness of the sound, and add some tightness in the low end and spank in the mid/highs, almost in a djent way haha.....if I put the overdrive first, it only adds some drive, and it doesn't make a lot of difference in the overall sound.
edit: just saw now your vid of the overdrive experiment, but I'm still curious of distortion pedals been boosted by OD's in the manner I use above.
I have black rat and I boost it wt boss is 2.sometimes wt eq all crankup.sometime wt compressor.sound pretty good.
Nossa
Ficou perfeito
Uma pena os dois serem tao caros
Play it with the filter turned low on the rat..
Not getting any hi end from it
Hey man, your TS9 into RAT sounds awesome. When I stack RAT with TS9 I get insane amount of hissing noise. How do you manage to get a so clean sound? My TS drive is at noon and my RAT is at noon as well. Both pedals work quiet with all other pedals and quit individually. My TS and RAT don't get along, what should I do? :(
Bring the gain all the way down on the TS9, you want to treat it more like a clean boost and use its tone knob to tighten/focus the RAT's distortion
does the bd-2 work just as well with the RAT as the TS-9 does?
tightened that fucker right up...will have to try with my 808...the rat sounds much better with the tubescreamer in front of it! As mentioned below...thanx for the tip.
No worries....
Please compare if rat bosting with boss od 3 ?
I use bosting marshall jack hammer with boss od3 + noise reduction to reach yngwie malmsteen tone..
You were right. I don't understand fully what the phenomenon is but the gain and signal structure is suddenly just perfect when the Tube Screamer feeds the Rat. Thanks for the tip
no worries
back in the day I used a in front of my 100 watt amp best it kicked ass
Hi. What pedal is better for the misfits and ramones songs the rat or the tube screamer ? Thanks
How it would sound Rat pedal boosting big Muff and big Muff boosting Rat pedal?
I may be the only one in the world that uses this but, out of all my OD’s (maxon 808, ts9, to800, TS9b) the TS9b is what I’ve been using exclusively for months… yeah sure I bought it for my bass guitar, but curiosity killed that cat for me. The TS9b is so heavy and tighter on the low end then any other pedal. Anyone else use it for guitar or just me? 😂probably just me… oh well it’s wayyy too dank for me to keep it a secret tbh
One of my goto setups for classic thrash tones, is my modded Peavey Rage, boosted with a TS clone, into a 1x12 cab.
Is the TS9 or TS8 better for tightening up distortion?
id rather have a preamp?cabsim after a rat and you can add od too before rat
An mxr dist + with a ts-9 in front sounds awesome as well
Gonna try that as I have both!
Another one I like:
Keeley Java (or other Treble Booster)>Xotic RC Booster>TS9
Trust me, it *rips*
I have the same set up but with a TS Mini. When I mix them I get a loud buzzing sound and tons of uncontrollable feedback. What can I do? :(
I know this was 9 months ago lol, but this just happens when you stack pedals into high gain territory. It's normal and comes from the pedals having the effect of compression on your signal. The buzzing could helped by cleaning up your power, using an isolated power supply, removing or turning off lights or electronics in the area of your rig, or by using a guitar with humbucker pickups if you're currently playing one with single coils. You can also use a noise gate pedal to tame it.
The feedback is just because of how high the gain is haha nothing you can do about that but lower the distortion knob on your rat or the volume knob on your TS if it's going into the Rat, or just move farther away from your amp.
Ok. So my OD goes before the distortion in the chain? Guitar>wah> OD>distortion>amp? I don't run anything else, nor do I plan to. Is that the right order?
If you use the OD to boost the distortion (to make it tighter and a bit more aggressive) then yes. You can experiment with the wah position, it gives different results when placed before or after the OD and distortion. And in the end there are no rules, try it and if you like it, great :)
@@clemensmoeller4549 right on, man. Thanks for the input.
Excuse me for asking, but is it from guitar to rat to TS to amp?
can you make a comparison between blackstar lt and ht dual pedal?
Do you think the sound would bê that much different If you had used the Boss SD-1?
What version of the rat is this? I built the LM308 chip version and it barely sounds like this. It sounds tighter then whats going on here when both pedals are engaged.
What amp did you use? Also, would a boss sd-1 do the same thing?
Yes it would definitely work to me there is no difference between the Ibanez and the boss,exact pedal.
Buy this Rat pedal. Buy the Ibanez tube screamer. Connect exactly as shown in this video. This is the real deal shit. Rat rules.
I just did.... Boom!
Killer demo, as is your other one with the RAT & Soul Food
Has anyone tried running a tube screamer into a boss ds-2? If so, how'd you like it?
Ds2 equals op amp high gain/level distortion. Boosting it really isn't going to get you a great tone. It will get you something but ds1's and 2's don't need to be boosted lol. I'll share a secret that will make your tone sound epic. Use your tube screamer to boost another over drive. It's going to sound distorted as fuck but in an insanely articulate way. Unlike a distortion pedal that's got lots of gaon but no articulation. Boosting high gain pedals gives you sludge but boosting overdrives gives you high gain articulate magic. Everyone discovers it eventually. The best tones are going to come from pedals with less gain. Just cause they aren't distortions doesn't mean they can't sound brutal as fuck. My favorite combo is my ts9 into the klon clone I built, or my homeade treble booster into my klon clone for vintage highly articulate tight Brian may (or black sabbath when the full frequentcy boost is engauged) type tones. The klon clone is a warm full less articulate transparent overdrive so when you boost it with a ts9 it makes it tight an articulate and just feels so epic, it will certainly chug with the best of them. You'll learn on your own eventually but id recommend you stop buying high gain pedals and buy lower gain boosts and use them together or to boost your amp. That way your able to dial in light brake up to heavy distortion that stays articulate. Now if you want fuzz by all means buy a fuzz but "distortion" pedals are severely limiting in what they can accomplish. I wish I could show you what I mean cause it would blow your mind. You don't have to believe me but I guarantee the first time you boost a warm od with a treble booster or a ts9 a light is gonna go off in your head and you'll think "finally! That's how you get that tone" and you'll smile ear to ear. Try boosting an overdrive with a ts9 set to gain 0 level 75% and tone at around 60 to 80%.Distortion pedals are always gonna sound loose compared to using overdrives to boost ann amp or another od. Anyways I really hope ive convinced you to take my advice. I really really wish someone told me that 10-15 years ago. Overdrives are great and fuzz pedals are great but distortion pedals are 90% of the time sub par and won't get you any epic tones. Distortion in my opinion is just a way for pedal makers to make money off beginners or unskilled/uneducated players.
@@michaelinglis567 Laughs in metalzone.
Oi m8! I've been learning guitar for the past 2 months, started with your vids, tahnks a lot! Never payed much attention to pedals and distortions and this kin of stuff, but what would you recommend if I wanted to get a motörhead kind of sound? Is there a good pedal for that or should I invest in a bridge pickup?
Fleig I'd go with a Biyang Metal End. You can get all sorts of heavy tones out of it and it's cheap as chips. Cheers
the boss ds- 1 (which is related to the rat and tubescreamer, curutry-wise, is the go to sound for classic hard rock, outside of a marshall tube gain circuit. The rat actually didnt get a good showing in this video because the rat pedal is extremely dependant on external eqing- the filter knob is not enough to get it going- and, yes, rats sound muddy when you turn the bass and distortion too high up at the same time, the mxl fullbor metal pedal is the same way. And for people who keep asking about getting the metallica sound- metallica experimented with distortion cascading a lot. they would run a rat into a marshall tube distortion circuit, or run a marshall gain preamp out into a meas boogie distortion circuit. You can get a rather thick distortion with the gain set around 10 oclock on 2 circuits, or experiment and find a balance. I modded an ibanex power lead to make it sound like a cross between a weak rat and a tubescreamer, and use that as an overdrive- cascading into other distortion circuits. it tightens up the sound quite right with the gain on the overdrive pedal set at 10 oclock, and the volume all the way up. It nearly makes my peavey audition practice amp distortion sound like an attenuated 5150 at full gain.
You shouldn't turn the distortion on a Rat any higher than 1:00. It's not a death metal pedal, it's more like an 80s cock rock pedal. It's notoriously muddy once you go past the middle, but it is very crisp on lower settings, especially if you dial in the filter just right. If you think it sounds better with the tube screamer set like this, try combining them with the Rat's distortion turned down lower - it's perfect!
(I'm sure you know this, this is just a note for people watching who haven't used a Rat before, and think it's supposed to sound this terrible)
Personally, I like it because it gets muddy at higher gain settings. It just depends on what you like and what tone you're chasing. I play psych/stoner rock that borders on metal, and the rat at high gain fits that niche nicely.
Mo Gotti I personally love the sound of high distortion rat. Good for noise rock.
A cock rock pedal ?
Newb.
Mo Gotti Metallica used it on "kill em all"
Mo Gotti You've clearly not heard Obituary then X
Am I the only that thinks it sounded better without the tube screamer?
You're not. To me it sounds way worse with the tube screamer on.
hi, is this the made in china proco rat 2? thanks
what happens if you crank the TS more into the Rat? too muddy?
Rat is a mushy distortion pedal, the Ibanez Tube Screamer definitely helps clean it up.