A few years ago, I switched to Dvorak layout on a standard QWERTY keyboard. Recently, I purchased a Voyager, because of your ergo keyboard reviews. Thank you for being so detailed and thorough in your videos. Multiple times, I have watched all your keyboard videos. I am particularly looking for the HOW layers can be used most effectively. My current layer-switching method still needs to be improved. Thanks for sharing your Voyager layout. I have more studying to do.
Great review and overview of these kinds of keyboard for beginners. I watched all of your videos before buying the moonlander and I'm very happy with my purchase. But maybe I'll pick up a Voyager too ;)
This was my first split keyboard and I'm surprised how quickly I was able to adapt to the new layout, particularly only having two thumb keys. The ability to set different functions for tapping or holding is essential to using this keyboard and this has just been a joy to use.
@@alex_lll Wasn't much of an issue for me switching from Defy. ZSA have thought very carefully about ergonomics and I find that my fingers fall right where they need to be. I actually tried switching the long thumb keys for square ones just for fun and it didn't seem to make much difference at all
Heavier switches AND more keys, this cannot possibly be a Ben Vallack keyboard video. Jokes aside, another excellent video. I knew from the release that this isn't the sort of board I'm looking for, as I'm very much happy with the Ergodox I use at my desk, and need a very similar unibody version for when I'm away. However, I was still very curious about how the board came out, as I'm a big fan of the work ZSA do. Glad to hear the project came out well. Once I've got the unibody board I really need for travelling with, if I get back into collecting boards I'll definitely pick one up, but for the meantime I think I'll stick to watching videos like yours!
This is a phenomenal review. Your approach is thorough and practical and I will definitely look into the ZSA products. I'm glad I found this video and look forward to browsing your channel.
No, it's not. There were several points made that are just completely false, and it's filled with speculation. I was left wondering why he didn't bother researching a topic he spoke so authoritatively on.
I was waiting for this review! Been wanting this keyboard since it came out, and I figured I should wait for your inevitable review before pulling the trigger 😆
"No Software or Drivers Required" kinda sold me when I was looking at their page. Having a custom keyboard layout and being able to just plug and play with other devices would literally let you take your home PC keyboard to work (With obvious security considerations with your resident IT department depending on your job.) and not have to swap back and fourth between QWERTY and anything else.
Bought one of the first 100 produced, did a presentation at work about it and got a few people interested in it. Big fan of the Voyager, I think they took the lessons from the ergodox and moonlander and this is the superior version. A fantastic compromise between the functionality and portability. With very little work, I was able to bring my moonlander layout to the voyager and do just fine with the 2 thumb buttons. Though I did modify the home row one row up and swapped the larger thumb key for a 1u.
I'll have to check and let you know, I have it loaned out at the moment lol. What I do know is that I ordered it within the hour of it being available, but I may be entirely wrong about that. Regardless, It is amazing and I am excited to be able to share it.@@kipkerluke2508
@@QuackyI think it really depends on how much tenting you want to have. The moonlander can get to a more extreme tent, but I found at usually requires more stuff to make work really well. and if you have to take it from place to place, the Moonlander can be a chore. If your use case is gonna be more stationary, AND you want more significant tenting without the zsa peripherals, go Moonlander. If you need just a bit of tenting, and want to be able to go between locations or devices, Voyager.
thought this myself as a glove user. A lot of the points he makes about things like having great software to customize while being lightweight and portable, Glove does all that
@@MattyPS The cool thing about glove is that its concave. I bought the voyager as a glove user for portability and can’t get used to it after ~week. Voyager is built nicer but glove just feels perfect for my hands.
I ended up getting this keyboard and am still transitioning. One change I made was swapping the switches to twilight ambient silent linears. They are so much quieter. Highly recommend!
I just got my Voyager and I absolutely love it so far. If you like a little more thumb keys like I do the Voyager is actually extremely crisp to use where you shift everything up one row and get rid of the number row, which gives you a row of keys at the bottom that you can use with your thumb!
Wow... After getting the Voyager for travel and not having to lug my moonlander around I got buyers remorse once I got it for that reason and hadn't touched it. I think your idea would basically solve my problem. I spend all my time on emacs so muscle memory is really important for me, esp the modifier keys. Thanks 🙏
@@paulhuang2030 I got it for travel as well with no intent to replace my ErgoDox with it, however I was trying it out and I absolutely love the choc style keys and have stopped using my ErgoDox and only use my Voyager ... so shift the Voyager at your own risk, you may find yourself liking it too much :D
If it is as configurable as the other zsa Keyboards it's not that big of a Deal it certainly would be nice but having the option to map every key Essentialy 4 times without switching Player is really great
recently switched from the dvorak keyboard layout to the graphite keyboard layout! its actually crazy how much more comfortable modern keyboard layouts are compared to old ones like colemak and dvorak. i was a 140wpmer 60s test on dvorak, hitting 100wpm after a month and now im 115wpm on graphite after a month! i find that it feels way more comfortable even though both of the keyboard layout are "optimised" for the best typing experience.
This is my first ergonomic keyboard, my wpm is down bad atm, and stumbling upon home row mods. But I can already tell when I get over the learning curve it's going to be such a blessing
I love my low-profile Kyria, made a layout based on Dvorak, modified it a bit, added several layers activated by combos on the left side (numeric, cursor, media, etc.), added a mouse layer, and also added combos for all special keys used for programming laid out logically and easily accessible.
In your video about the 34 key layout, you used the thumb keys to permanently toggle to other layers. With the voyager, you tap hold the home row keys to navigate to layers. I'd be interested in why you changed your approach for the voyager.
Yeah there’s something fairly mentally taxing about toggles for layers. Home row holds seem easier to get your head around and because of the strength of the home fingers/positions it doesn’t seem fatiguing.
As someone who built a split keyboard and now uses a preonic as my portable keyboard this is definitely a convincing buy, I think the biggest issue is the that I usually need minimum 3 thumb keys.
Seconding everyone here asking about your opinion on the Glove80. Less travel friendly, maybe too many keys, but with software just as good as ZSA, great wireless, and arguably peak keyboard design with the overall layout and key-well.
I just can’t associate that many keys with ergonomics. For me ergonomics is reducing the excessive stretching of the fingers. I know the key well helps that but I think just going to a smaller layout is equally beneficial- that said I’d like to try one!
@@BenVallack One big benefit ow the key wells is that you can have the low travel *and* access to many keys. Most of the Glove80 columns give you about 5 rows with in the same finger travel distance of the Voyager's 4 rows (imagine how little fingers have to travel when you just use 4 rows on the Glove80). I have snapped a quick pic: i.imgur.com/CxLEkO9.jpg The Glove80 is also pretty small with the palm rest removed. Cannot beat the thinness of the Voyager though. But I think you would appreciate the Glove80 as well.
@@BenVallack Reducing finger motion is definitely a good goal for reducing RSI but anecdotally I've seen a number of people experience RSI for the first time as they moved to using thumb keys more for layers and other held functions that require finger presses at the same time. I've tried sticky layers on my thumbs but I've never been able to get used to them. I believe part of the glove80's philosophy is giving people the option to reduce the use of layers and the strain that holding a thumb key and a finger key can cause
Ordered the ZSA Voyager on April 3rd and received it on April 11. It was shipped Fedex priority and arrived overnight, it looks like I was lucky or they had parts on hand, either way I'm starting the journey! Thanks for the videos!
Really informative, cleared up a lot of background questions. The one takeaway for me (I'm new so forgive me if this is old news) is the idea of using camera clamp style hold-downs for mounting.. Of course that's a good idea, you want things to not move in photography.. Genuinely opened up a LOT of options for my rather custom desk setup
Your channel is so great and you are the first one I found that shares the same kind of wanting efficency at the keyboard with every stroke, that I like sooo much. You also introduced me to homerow mods. Eventhought I cant really see myself using a customized keyboard, like your. I definitly see myself using homerow mods. Today I activated those and it has been so awesome. It does feel a bit awkward at first. But I am sure that in one or two weeks, I will be flawless and better than before. This is exactly like the first time I used vim. This is a step you do, that you cant undo. You will use this cool stuff for the rest of time and I love it :) Keep up the great videos, I love every single one
I tried to build my own custom choc keyboard years ago, but my soldering skill was not up to the challenge, and it ended up being a waste of time and money, and I just have been making do with Karabiner. I always regretted not just putting that money toward a Moonlander even though it wasn't low profile. I'm super happy that zsa has a low profile option now. Thanks!
I am a proud owner of the Voyager keyboard. I have tried almost all keyboards from ZSA, except for the Moonlander. Voyager has become my primary keyboard. After three months of daily use, I have finally regained my typing speed to the level I had with a "standard keyboard." As a software engineer, I actively use both English and Russian layouts. It took me about three months not only to get used to the keyboard but also to place all the necessary keys in their proper positions, especially the 32 letters of the Russian alphabet. After all this time, I can confidently say that this is the best keyboard I’ve ever had. The colorful backlighting is a great mood booster and makes it easy to work confidently at night. However, I advise anyone considering purchasing it to think carefully. It must be a deliberate choice because adapting to it takes time. Greetings from Azerbaijan! I might be the first and only Voyager owner in the country.
28:15 I feel like the Glove 80 is a way better recommendation. It's more ergonomic than flat board and there's no need to tweak with layers. It even has choc switches! Edit: After going deeper in the keyboard journey, I agree with Ben now. For ergonomics, I confidently think that the way to go is by minimizing the number of keys to prevent reaching. Tweaking layers might be a bit confusing at the start, but with practice it pays off.
And what if the portability is suddenly a minor trade-off when the rest of the features are so much better? Are you willing to try it@@BenVallack ? Would love to hear your opinion on this.
Sadly, what a lot of people tend to (understandably) miss when going for minimum key counts, is languages with more letters in them than English. I'm loving the idea of Voyager, the form factor is VERY slim and it's great. I'd love to be able to use something like this as a portable laptop keyboard to take everywhere I go. But, I feel like even 52 is way too few keys for me to be comfortable with. I need at least [ ] ; ' \ , . to be separate physical keys (because they are also letters/essential punctuation in other languages), and ideally arrows too, and more thumb buttons than just 2 (ideally ctrl/win/alt/altGr and backspace/delete/space/enter). Also quite important for gaming to have modifiers and the usual keys (spacebar, tab, etc) easily available without layers, tap hold or tapdance. The intro is such a good overview on the main principles of keyboard ergonomics/custom keebs!
You can make an extra layer to bring any keys you want to your home row or your easiest to reach keys. It's really easy with Oryx, ZSA's layout creating setup.
@@narkfly of course you can, I thought it was clear from my comment that I know. But it's not the same. Less hand movement, but also more keystrokes and more complexity, so it's not always worth it
@@Kej1m @Kej1m I am using a Moonlander with a 30 key layout as my daily driver for work - I'm a Dispatcher with an extremely time-sensetive position. If you use combos for keys like Esc & Delete (keys that are used far less frequently during typing, are typed about as frequently as punctuation) - plus dedicated thumb keys for the keys you use most while typing (Space & Backspace, you can also fit Tab & Enter here with 2 keys for each thumb & have Tap Dance go to a layer or something else when held for thumbs) - with Home Row mods or similar for your Shift, Ctrl, Alt, Win (I put all of these mods on my top row except Shift on pinky Home Row - to have layer switching on my Home Row index, middle, and ring when held) - and your main secondary layer having arrow keys under your right hand home row (on this layer, as I'm right-handed, I have my number pad on my left hand - this mirrors how left-handers mouse with their left and num pad with their right) - you can easily, easily fit all the dedicated punctuation keys you listed on your main layer with the Voyager - even without using the top Number row, which are not comfortable to reach outside of maybe 4 of the fingers on your hands. I started down this rabbit hole because of Ben's videos on his journey - and it's been a blast. There is a learning curve, but it's so much more comfortable - I have zero interest in typing on a "regular" keyboard any more.
I was thinking this the whole time. I use a traditional 104-key mechanical keyboard because I need as many keys as possible to type in Korean and Japanese. Yes, the QWERTY layout has issues for English, but it’s actually really good with other languages, especially when paired with modern IME software. I can type in multiple different scripts without buying multiple different physical keyboards, and that’s important to me and my needs when typing. Sure, a full sized keyboard isn’t always the best, but there is nothing better when you need to switch quickly between languages and when you need to use ALT codes a lot. This video was very “English centric,” and is probably great for the monolingual people out there, but this keyboard is a huge downgrade from the traditional 104-key layout when you have specific language needs.
Wow, I thought custom keyboard enthusiasts already overengineer their typing experience but you, sir, bring this to another level entirely. 😂 Anyway, lots of respect for your hints and videos! Thanks a lot!
This video had the opposite of its likely intended effect-pushing me away from the Voyager. I use things like em dashes too frequently to want to constantly have to use layers. I’m now moving closer to the Kinesis Advantage 360 non-Bluetooth.
I have The moonlander for a bunch of time and i'm entirely satisfied by it, but i have to say that the smaller form factor of that Voyager convinced me, i already ordered it right away
@@earthling_parth Hi so my experience with the Voyager have been great i prefer this one over the Moonlander but i guess it’s just a matter of preference, i love the key switches, i love the smaller design, the material looks more premium and solid, and the writing experience have been perfect to me, but the keys are flatter on the voyager due to the thinner form factor, so it’s all depands on what you really want, the moonlander was great but a little too big for me.
I tried the Ferris Sweep with 8-bit controllers and just found that having the outside home row keys as the shift key when held down wasn't reliable. The 16-bit controllers might work better, but in the mean time I've gone back to my Kint-modified Kinesis Advantage. It's hand wired because I destroyed the original boards but it seems to work reasonably well. I'm probably not going to spend nearly $400 for a minimalist keyboard because if I had that kind of money to throw around I'd spend it on a HAM rig. I do have the 16-bit controllers, so maybe they'll work better with the dual function shift key layout.
Shift keys as home row keys can never work due to ambiguity between a shifted rolled key or just a normal roll. It will always force a delay. Dedicated shift key is essential imo .
I have this keyboard, and I absolutely love it. It was my first split keyboard. The build quality is fantastic. The online configuration tool, Oryx is very easy and very accessible, even for a beginner. I've moved on to smaller keyboards, I prefer a 3x5 layout now, and I prefer silent switches, like a silent shrimp, or a bobo U4, there are no choc switches like that, yet. The Voyager was an important first step in my keyboard journey. I might go back to it when silent choc's become available. If RSA ever made a 34 or 36 key wireless keyboard I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
It would be really helpful if you could make a video showing the tripod mounting system for your keyboard set up, and where to buy the parts in the UK and how to put it together and so on. It’s all a bit of a mystery at the moment.
You convinced me to get a Voyager. I was on the fence, but now my order is placed. Please make a video about your treadmill setup, especially how you use it and if you have noticed long-term benefits.
Just got the voyager, my first configurable board. I love it! Ive got 2 layouts defined, and am pretty happy with having moved the home row up one and got rod of the number row. This gives me more thumb keys, and everything I need is on layers.
I always thought that you'd return to a keyboard with enough keys for all alphas on one layer, but I'm definitely surprised to see you go so far in the other direction! (relatively speaking anyway - 52 is still tiny compared to normal keyboards). Just out of curiosity, was there a specific reason to choose this board instead of some of your other previous choices like the Corne or Ferris Sweep? You mentioned issues of soldering and the lack of a polished complete package as a result of DIY, but I feel like there's enough decently pre-packaged boards available on Etsy or even something like the Corne-ish Zen that offer that reliability and support. Not to mention that Corne-ish Zen has wireless capability and a 36-key version, making it far more portable. Also, another curiosity question, do you find that going back to a split is overall better than a unibody keyboard that you had previously? I hope I don't come off as combative; I'm genuinely curious as I've been following your journey for quite some time. I do feel like this was a rather huge jump, and it was a bit jarring to see, but I also know that preferences and requirements change over time.
No problem at all. I didn’t spend too long on the comparisons to those because I know most people buying the Voyager are coming from mainstream keyboards not the other way around like me. The sweep and all the other 1DFU type boards are all great in that they’re small layouts with chocs. But they all have the DIY board issues, reliability and general lack of polish and robustness that the Voyager has. Cornish zen is close but still weird group buy format which I don’t like.
@@BenVallack Perfect, thank you! Agreed on the benefits of having a company like ZSA behind the product. I started my journey with the Planck EZ, but I had an issue with one of the hot-swap sockets. When I contacted support and after some basic diagnosing, they sent over a brand new board at no additional cost, and the second board worked perfectly. You definitely won't get this from the DIY sellers. Granted, nowadays I would've just fixed it in a couple minutes by removing and re-soldering a new socket, but many are reluctant to do so or don't have the time to do it which is completely understandable. ZSA's found a great market here!
Thanks for the review! This was very thorough and a great showcase for this new keyboard. I'm certain that this will be someone's favorite keyboard (like mine is the Moonlander). I've fallen in love with the Moonlander. I can't imagine going down to less keys - it's not for me. I use the extra thumb keys for different layers and I'll never go back.
Thank you for this in depth dive. I have been a standard KB user for decades. I have had carpel tunnel issues and my shoulders are paying a price. I have been wondering what a good first split keyboard would be. This video answered that question. Thank you again.
I have the Moonlander, discontinued ZSA line. Still feeling good with it, but the Voyager is somehow on my radar to try - but I don't have friends who have it, so waiting for them to get one so I can try to get my hands on it. I had same opportunity with the Moonlander, as my colleague has one, he has blank keys with black theme, I have with letters, and white theme, but honestly? Having bumps on "main row keys" gives me enough confidence to write without looking at the keyboard so I think my next buy (if ever, I love the Moonlander) will be with blank keys. Nice to learn more about Voyager from you, definitely you're one of the people who I'd recommend to watch before hopping into split keyboards' journey
ZSA is very wise to send you their products! I bought the Planck EZ because of you, and now I will very likely get the Voyager too! And though a sponsorship would be nice, I must admit its reassuring to know it's your honest opinion.
I've found the moonlander so satisfying over the last few months, I can imagine wanting to try the flatter/smaller voyager at some point. They're a bit pricey for my liking but I very much appreciate the hotswapable keys, oryx and customer service (I would/will hurt my wallet again). In terms of wireless, I don't entirely like bluetooth (for input devices), because its not going to connect until your computer is fully booted, can't use it in the bios for instance or in something more temporary like a live image without pairing... on the main station I would have a permanent wire, but I would prefer an RF dongle when occasionally plugging into other things.
God damn, that board looks delightful! I bought an Ergodox a few years back and have been really happy with it. Glad to see ZSA are still going, I've been recommending them since the purchase. Only thing I'm missing from the Ergodox is even more aggressive tenting, so the Voyager with arms seems right up my alley..
28:30 you miss an important point. When you need to learn a new way to switch layers and access modifiers it is not straight forward. Also it is not compatible to a standard keyboard, which you might need or want to use. For example on the train I just want to use my laptop and will not plug in an external keyboard. For all those who want or need this form of compatibility this keyboard is not an option, because it misses the lower row with the modifiers and arrow cluster -- which can be quite handy.
I know your goal is flatness and portability, but do you have any opinions on contoured boards such as the Glove80? I think the issue of extra rows is mostly fixed with a contoured profile, given the curvature of the profile is supposed to better match the pivoting of your gingers, meaning less overall distance moved per finger, i.e. less effort in movement.
I agree ghat dished or contoured boards are the most ergonomic, but have you heard the Glove80? It sounds so cheap and plasticky, especially given that it costs so much
@@cyanophage4351 It doesn't feel cheap. And in contrast to e.g. the Kinesis Advantage360 (which some people don't find cheap), mine do not have any scuffs (the 360 had scuffs after using the palm pads a handful times).
The Glove80 is great if you need to maintain the number of keys, but you're still working with more rows than you can reach without moving your hands a lot. If you need that many keys, the Glove80 is a great way to reduce reach, but otherwise you should consider at least getting down to 4 rows, but 3 is better IMO
Hi. I loved your video. thx What was tha app you used on 16:40 to test finger touch? I also do custom keyboard (but for fun only) and I really love to have some app to test where I touch with my fingers so I can adjust the keys to have less effort. thx
I recently got a sofle choc, which is fairly similar but a lot cheaper and it has knobs (which i find pretty useful i.e. 1 is for volume the other i use as arrow keys, clicking is pause media). It is taking me a while to adapt to the new layout, as i have dyspraxia and have never been a good typist to begin with. But it is so much fun and has reduced a lot of my chronic wrist pain.
I bought the Moonlander Mark I because of a shoulder injury. I noticed my shoulder hurt when I typed but I could play FPS games for hours. I guessed, and it was a expensive guess, that it was because my hands were a shoulder distance apart. I invested in the Moonlader and it got rid of my shoulder pain, I keep them shoulder width apart and actually when not gaming, I use my mouse between them. When gaming it is comfortable to move my right hand side right next to my left and my mouse to the right. Everyone I watch using split keyboards never used them 'split', they're always right next to each other.
Yeah I'm pretty happy using splits quite wide - the way I use mine now though is about 10" apart but with big tenting and a long way below my elbows - that seems to be extremely comfortable for me long term.
Really tempted to get this keyboard now. Would love to see you do a review of the Keyboardio Atreus. That's a small form factor keyboard that I've found to be my favorite for a bit now.
Since trying my first Corne with Choc switches, I've been debating what to get next. I did purchase what I thought would be similar, but the quality just wasn't there. I'd been thinking about the Corneish Zen for a while, but once ZSA launched this, I was stumped between the two options. You've just helped me make up my mind. Very compelling video. Thank you so much. I've loved following your journey and hope you aren't stuck with existential dread trying to figure out what to do next. ;)
Hello Ben! I've tried home row mods for quite some time for now, however I still can't figure out how long to set tapping term to with my average speed being around 80 WPM. Since you've used home modes with similar speed on your 18 keys, I wonder what length of the tapping term did you find fitting ?
I kinda wonder how well this keyboard would work as a daily driver when one also games, FPS or strategy game or similar. Does anyone have any experience with that?
Just got one recently. It is incredibly good and keymapp is so well made that I'm trying out new keyboard layouts. Before this I was using the planck ez for a few years, which I also found out about from this channel!
Really good video. Thanks for the effort. I am still way to poor to get this keyboard but the voyager is on my list of what I want to get into and use.
Staggered keys may make no sense now but they were essential on old manual typewriters. If the keys were lined up in columns, four levers in each column would be on top of each other. They had to be staggered so the levers could move past one another. If you draw verticle lines through the center of each key, you will see how this works and why the top row is staggered more than the others. Of course, the stagger is no longer necessary, but neither is QWERTY. I've used ortholinear keyboards and there's no learning curve. They're very easy to use. But there are other, more important considerations for me.
I've spent 25 years searching for the best keyboard, buying and using many exotic varieties, and what I learned is that the best for me is a standard 65% to 75% layout with QMK and hotswap, in a personalized dvorak layout. I used to think staggered rows were a bad design, but it makes a lot more sense than people give it credit for.
Man, the ZSA products always look so good. You're paying the price for a niche but polished experience, it's great that the option exists. But there's one thing I wish ZSA did, and that's releasing a product for those of us with smaller hands. The moonlander and the voyager thumb clusters are just too far away from the homerow when you're on the petite side.
@@BenVallack thanks for the clarification! So I assume it would be impossible for the tap key to give an input like, for example in a videogame, to make the W key do both 'walk forward' and 'sprint' depending on how long you hold the key down. But I assume it wouldn't work because the tap function only gives a momentary input on releasing the key
I just started using the Voyager and I want to love it, but there's just one glaring issue so far: Why is the inner column staggered so much? The pointer finger from home key to inner bottom key (J > N in QWERTY) is actually just painful for me so far. The DIY options like Corne & Sweep seem to have it figured out where the inner column is not staggered. Even Ergodox EZ doesn't have this problem.
Hi Ben, I kinda have spent the past 10 days devouring your channel. GREAT CONTENT. I am curious about two things: 1st: Are you still daily driving the Voyager? 2nd: I have seen no video of yours talking about the ISRT layout. There are some videos where you do mention the past steps of your "layout-journey" but you don't tell us much about your switch from Colemak DH to ISRT. I think that would be a cool video to watch. thank you!
Thanks! Yeah I'll do a video on that at some stage. Basically I think there are so many amazing modern layouts that we're spoilt for choice. I'm still using the Voyager as my daily driver yep!
@@BenVallack there are a lot that seem great and I’m still struggling to find which one to pick: I write in German, Spanish and English regularly and I’d love to find a way to use just one layout for all of them. I might try ISRT and have German Umlauts (üöä) on a second layer. It would be a cool exercise though, to design a layout for a given set of languages.
hi can you PLEASE do a video explaining how you interact with vim using these types of keyboard layouts? i especially find trouble customizing my keyboard and accessing navigation and the function keys
Very similar to my Sofle split, which I absolutely love. Columnar layouts just make so much sense. I don't think I'm ready to move away from Qwerty though!
I have a Moonlander, with a lot of blank spaces, and a Corne 5x3+3. I would have preferred the Voyager reduce the number of rows, but keep the three thumb keys of the Moonlander. That's why I went with the Corne.
Looks nice, but I think for me that's too few keys. I think the sweet-spot is the Kinesis Advantage (whichever version... probably 2), but I just unpacked a new MoErgo Glove80 and I think that this one is here to stay. Clicky, low profile keys, very close to Kinesis Advantage layout, and comes with a carrying case and has Bluetooth if needed. Also supports various tenting configurations and mounting options. The one you just showcased there is nice. But I just need more thumb buttons, and at least an extra row under the ZXC line for esc, up/down etc to avoid the need for too many multi-press actions. One thing you (I think) forgot to mention, is that once you are used to a non-staggered keyboard, you won't have trouble typing numbers anymore. Sure, I can type numbers on my macbook, when that's the only option, but there is nothing like banging numbers out on a non-staggered keyboard with almost the speed of a dedicated numpad ... ;) Just my 2c .... I definitely agree, that staggered keyboards should to. Unfortunately, I am 99.9% sure that it won't be Apple who puts a decent keyboard on a laptop, and if laptops keep using that stupid layout/configuration, unfortunately they will be here to stay. Staggered keyboards are like plague.
A mirrored stagger makes more sense than ortho for laptop. Ortho/column stagger isn't really better unless the hands are spaced or angled in. And ortho/column stagger is just terrible on qwerty in general.
Got the Moonlander myself and love it, I got blank caps to force myself to learn touch typing as I was still looking at the keyboard despite having been a programmer for years! For gaming however I go for the Azeron Cyborg, I've considered it for typing but I feel typing and gaming differ quite drastically when it comes to input.
I got the desk clamps to go with the Voyager. They're great for experimentation on the journey to find your ideal setup. But the way you use them is not for me. I find that having the mouse easily accessible with my right hand is crucial for the way I work. I'm now gravitating towards a setup where I mount the double ball joint thing to a piece of plywood that can sit on the desk. I just swapped out the clamp for a mounting plate that's screwed on the plywood. That allows wrist/palm support when I need it and the mouse is easily reachable. The inspiration came out of this video though. Good stuff!
Yeah it does make it harder to get to the mouse - however I found the tenting so much better it was worth getting used to. I can now reliably re-land my hand on the keyboard without any adjustment without looking but I do also take steps to minimise mouse use as well.
1:18 that is not really true. For some reason we choose asdf jkl; to be the "home row" but if we simply change that sdfv njkl than the problem is solved. I never learned to type with the ergonomic home row so I don't really know if that has hidden probables but it looks like an obvious solution if we didn't want to change the world standard (which we do)
Even with that changed homerow one of my issues with qwerty still exist, the highest used keys are still just a bit off the home row. It's why I love Colemak, you just roll your hands side to side to type (still not as optimized as, say, rollmak, but still lovely to use
@@hexaltheninjawow9531 tbh I am an opponent of Colemak and Dvorak at the moment because they are both designed to only write average English in the ~80s which does not translate well to other languages or even more specific use cases like programming where symbols would probably be more used than any letter. I am a bit of an idealist so I'd actually rather have a completely shuffled layout. I am very curious if emerging technology can make all keyboards customizable with dynamic legends so that everyone can come up with a layout that works best for them and use some sort of quick contact technology to switch any keyboard to that
@@StarOnCheek That’s very much fair enough. I’m not sure about legends that swap on the fly but I do have something you may like; “Oxey’s Layout Playground.” It is a layout customizer and analyzer made by Oxey, known for making several (kinda) ofte-used custom layouts. Essentially it's a drag-and-drop system where you can see how effective a layout, compare it to other layouts, and look at it in different languages. Since you’re here there’s a good chance you already know and use it, but it's always nice to show it to people if they don’t already know :)
Have you looked into keyboards with key wells? Like the Glove80, Kinesis 360 or even dactyl manuform? I find the keywell makes it nicer and easier to hit the keys comfortably and accurately. After getting used to it, I really don't like typing on flat keyboards anymore. Although I could imagine that using more layers and fewer buttons makes this benefit less relevant.
Yeah I think thats the crux of it - there are two paths to solving the issue of stretching to reach keys. Bringing them nearer with key wells or just using a smaller layout. The latter has the advantage of remaining portable so thats the camp I'm in at the moment.
A few years ago, I switched to Dvorak layout on a standard QWERTY keyboard. Recently, I purchased a Voyager, because of your ergo keyboard reviews.
Thank you for being so detailed and thorough in your videos. Multiple times, I have watched all your keyboard videos. I am particularly looking for the HOW layers can be used most effectively. My current layer-switching method still needs to be improved.
Thanks for sharing your Voyager layout. I have more studying to do.
Thanks so much for this! Very much appreciated.
Sigh. I bought the Planck EZ after watching one of your videos, now you got me wanting the Voyager. You're killing me man!! :D Great videos!
Many thanks for this! Those Plancks will be cult classics now they stopped making them!
The Planck EZ was always a terrible keyboard.
The information density here requires full attention. Great job! Just got a Moonlander. Very happy :)
i appreciate when i don't need to put on 1.5x as 90% of the videos i watch, and as you mentioned, 30min of a lot of information :D
Great review and overview of these kinds of keyboard for beginners. I watched all of your videos before buying the moonlander and I'm very happy with my purchase. But maybe I'll pick up a Voyager too ;)
Thanks so much for this!
This was my first split keyboard and I'm surprised how quickly I was able to adapt to the new layout, particularly only having two thumb keys. The ability to set different functions for tapping or holding is essential to using this keyboard and this has just been a joy to use.
Yeah, absolutely loving mine. Switched from a Dygma Defy and it's just so much better
How hard was it to adapt to small Shift key? My main concern right now
@@alex_lll Wasn't much of an issue for me switching from Defy. ZSA have thought very carefully about ergonomics and I find that my fingers fall right where they need to be. I actually tried switching the long thumb keys for square ones just for fun and it didn't seem to make much difference at all
Heavier switches AND more keys, this cannot possibly be a Ben Vallack keyboard video.
Jokes aside, another excellent video. I knew from the release that this isn't the sort of board I'm looking for, as I'm very much happy with the Ergodox I use at my desk, and need a very similar unibody version for when I'm away. However, I was still very curious about how the board came out, as I'm a big fan of the work ZSA do. Glad to hear the project came out well. Once I've got the unibody board I really need for travelling with, if I get back into collecting boards I'll definitely pick one up, but for the meantime I think I'll stick to watching videos like yours!
This is a phenomenal review. Your approach is thorough and practical and I will definitely look into the ZSA products. I'm glad I found this video and look forward to browsing your channel.
No, it's not. There were several points made that are just completely false, and it's filled with speculation. I was left wondering why he didn't bother researching a topic he spoke so authoritatively on.
@@bobbyv3 Do you mind elaborating on what those false points are?
I was waiting for this review! Been wanting this keyboard since it came out, and I figured I should wait for your inevitable review before pulling the trigger 😆
"No Software or Drivers Required" kinda sold me when I was looking at their page. Having a custom keyboard layout and being able to just plug and play with other devices would literally let you take your home PC keyboard to work (With obvious security considerations with your resident IT department depending on your job.) and not have to swap back and fourth between QWERTY and anything else.
Bought one of the first 100 produced, did a presentation at work about it and got a few people interested in it. Big fan of the Voyager, I think they took the lessons from the ergodox and moonlander and this is the superior version. A fantastic compromise between the functionality and portability. With very little work, I was able to bring my moonlander layout to the voyager and do just fine with the 2 thumb buttons. Though I did modify the home row one row up and swapped the larger thumb key for a 1u.
how do you tell if yours is one of the first? mine says PN:VOYAGER-L-00
I'll have to check and let you know, I have it loaned out at the moment lol. What I do know is that I ordered it within the hour of it being available, but I may be entirely wrong about that. Regardless, It is amazing and I am excited to be able to share it.@@kipkerluke2508
i just ordered the moonlander. should i switch the order to voyager? haha wa so sure with choosing it over the voyager
@kipkerluke2508 looks like I was mistaken about that. No way that I can find to confirm it.
@@QuackyI think it really depends on how much tenting you want to have. The moonlander can get to a more extreme tent, but I found at usually requires more stuff to make work really well. and if you have to take it from place to place, the Moonlander can be a chore.
If your use case is gonna be more stationary, AND you want more significant tenting without the zsa peripherals, go Moonlander. If you need just a bit of tenting, and want to be able to go between locations or devices, Voyager.
Any thoughts about glove 80 ?
thought this myself as a glove user. A lot of the points he makes about things like having great software to customize while being lightweight and portable, Glove does all that
I'd live to try the Glove 80 but now that I own the Voyager... I think it has too many keys. Don't need the extra rows (e.g. for numbers.)
@@MattyPS The cool thing about glove is that its concave. I bought the voyager as a glove user for portability and can’t get used to it after ~week. Voyager is built nicer but glove just feels perfect for my hands.
@@michalsj1788hi, and would you say u got big or small hands?
What are those tripod mounts you use? Do you have a Amazon link? 14:11
Thanks and great video I’m about to order this keyboard. 😊
please someone link the tripod mounts i need them
"I use Vim btw"
fr, at least he didn't mention arch lol
I ended up getting this keyboard and am still transitioning. One change I made was swapping the switches to twilight ambient silent linears. They are so much quieter. Highly recommend!
Great stuff --- super educational. Ben, you really think through the different dimensions of keyboards.
Curious to hear comparison to Glove80
I just got my Voyager and I absolutely love it so far. If you like a little more thumb keys like I do the Voyager is actually extremely crisp to use where you shift everything up one row and get rid of the number row, which gives you a row of keys at the bottom that you can use with your thumb!
Yeah that is a super interesting idea
Wow... After getting the Voyager for travel and not having to lug my moonlander around I got buyers remorse once I got it for that reason and hadn't touched it. I think your idea would basically solve my problem. I spend all my time on emacs so muscle memory is really important for me, esp the modifier keys. Thanks 🙏
@@paulhuang2030 I got it for travel as well with no intent to replace my ErgoDox with it, however I was trying it out and I absolutely love the choc style keys and have stopped using my ErgoDox and only use my Voyager ... so shift the Voyager at your own risk, you may find yourself liking it too much :D
I'm interested to hear more about your treadmill / workspace setup!
I guess my new travel keyboard. Only wish it had 3 keys per thumb.
Yea weird choice to go without that
That 3rd thumb button is why I switched from a Ferris Sweep to the Swoop.
If it is as configurable as the other zsa Keyboards it's not that big of a Deal it certainly would be nice but having the option to map every key Essentialy 4 times without switching Player is really great
+1
Having only 2 thumb keys feels like erring a bit too much on the minimalist side.
Naya Create keyboard
recently switched from the dvorak keyboard layout to the graphite keyboard layout! its actually crazy how much more comfortable modern keyboard layouts are compared to old ones like colemak and dvorak.
i was a 140wpmer 60s test on dvorak, hitting 100wpm after a month
and now im 115wpm on graphite after a month! i find that it feels way more comfortable even though both of the keyboard layout are "optimised" for the best typing experience.
This is my first ergonomic keyboard, my wpm is down bad atm, and stumbling upon home row mods. But I can already tell when I get over the learning curve it's going to be such a blessing
I love my low-profile Kyria, made a layout based on Dvorak, modified it a bit, added several layers activated by combos on the left side (numeric, cursor, media, etc.), added a mouse layer, and also added combos for all special keys used for programming laid out logically and easily accessible.
In your video about the 34 key layout, you used the thumb keys to permanently toggle to other layers. With the voyager, you tap hold the home row keys to navigate to layers. I'd be interested in why you changed your approach for the voyager.
Yeah there’s something fairly mentally taxing about toggles for layers. Home row holds seem easier to get your head around and because of the strength of the home fingers/positions it doesn’t seem fatiguing.
Thank you!
As someone who built a split keyboard and now uses a preonic as my portable keyboard this is definitely a convincing buy, I think the biggest issue is the that I usually need minimum 3 thumb keys.
Seconding everyone here asking about your opinion on the Glove80. Less travel friendly, maybe too many keys, but with software just as good as ZSA, great wireless, and arguably peak keyboard design with the overall layout and key-well.
Glove 40 would be ideal
I just can’t associate that many keys with ergonomics. For me ergonomics is reducing the excessive stretching of the fingers. I know the key well helps that but I think just going to a smaller layout is equally beneficial- that said I’d like to try one!
@@BenVallack One big benefit ow the key wells is that you can have the low travel *and* access to many keys. Most of the Glove80 columns give you about 5 rows with in the same finger travel distance of the Voyager's 4 rows (imagine how little fingers have to travel when you just use 4 rows on the Glove80). I have snapped a quick pic: i.imgur.com/CxLEkO9.jpg
The Glove80 is also pretty small with the palm rest removed. Cannot beat the thinness of the Voyager though. But I think you would appreciate the Glove80 as well.
@@BenVallack Reducing finger motion is definitely a good goal for reducing RSI but anecdotally I've seen a number of people experience RSI for the first time as they moved to using thumb keys more for layers and other held functions that require finger presses at the same time. I've tried sticky layers on my thumbs but I've never been able to get used to them. I believe part of the glove80's philosophy is giving people the option to reduce the use of layers and the strain that holding a thumb key and a finger key can cause
@@JesseBradfordsThat's definitely an interesting discussion!
Ordered the ZSA Voyager on April 3rd and received it on April 11. It was shipped Fedex priority and arrived overnight, it looks like I was lucky or they had parts on hand, either way I'm starting the journey! Thanks for the videos!
How has it been?
Really informative, cleared up a lot of background questions. The one takeaway for me (I'm new so forgive me if this is old news) is the idea of using camera clamp style hold-downs for mounting.. Of course that's a good idea, you want things to not move in photography.. Genuinely opened up a LOT of options for my rather custom desk setup
More detail on that here: th-cam.com/video/mT3TToFqqEU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LX9enM4qE9JFaAQz
I shall now go and watch that! :) ty @@BenVallack
Your channel is so great and you are the first one I found that shares the same kind of wanting efficency at the keyboard with every stroke, that I like sooo much. You also introduced me to homerow mods. Eventhought I cant really see myself using a customized keyboard, like your. I definitly see myself using homerow mods. Today I activated those and it has been so awesome. It does feel a bit awkward at first. But I am sure that in one or two weeks, I will be flawless and better than before.
This is exactly like the first time I used vim. This is a step you do, that you cant undo. You will use this cool stuff for the rest of time and I love it :)
Keep up the great videos, I love every single one
Thanks so much!
I think this is the best review on the Voyager that I've seen on TH-cam. And there are a lot of good reviews on the Voyager on TH-cam.
I tried to build my own custom choc keyboard years ago, but my soldering skill was not up to the challenge, and it ended up being a waste of time and money, and I just have been making do with Karabiner. I always regretted not just putting that money toward a Moonlander even though it wasn't low profile. I'm super happy that zsa has a low profile option now. Thanks!
hey found any low profile keys that look like those ?
I am a proud owner of the Voyager keyboard. I have tried almost all keyboards from ZSA, except for the Moonlander. Voyager has become my primary keyboard. After three months of daily use, I have finally regained my typing speed to the level I had with a "standard keyboard."
As a software engineer, I actively use both English and Russian layouts. It took me about three months not only to get used to the keyboard but also to place all the necessary keys in their proper positions, especially the 32 letters of the Russian alphabet. After all this time, I can confidently say that this is the best keyboard I’ve ever had. The colorful backlighting is a great mood booster and makes it easy to work confidently at night.
However, I advise anyone considering purchasing it to think carefully. It must be a deliberate choice because adapting to it takes time. Greetings from Azerbaijan! I might be the first and only Voyager owner in the country.
28:15 I feel like the Glove 80 is a way better recommendation. It's more ergonomic than flat board and there's no need to tweak with layers. It even has choc switches!
Edit: After going deeper in the keyboard journey, I agree with Ben now. For ergonomics, I confidently think that the way to go is by minimizing the number of keys to prevent reaching. Tweaking layers might be a bit confusing at the start, but with practice it pays off.
Not sure why he's so hesitant to go with/review dished keyboards, they're way better!
Portability
And what if the portability is suddenly a minor trade-off when the rest of the features are so much better? Are you willing to try it@@BenVallack ? Would love to hear your opinion on this.
Sadly, what a lot of people tend to (understandably) miss when going for minimum key counts, is languages with more letters in them than English. I'm loving the idea of Voyager, the form factor is VERY slim and it's great. I'd love to be able to use something like this as a portable laptop keyboard to take everywhere I go.
But, I feel like even 52 is way too few keys for me to be comfortable with. I need at least [ ] ; ' \ , . to be separate physical keys (because they are also letters/essential punctuation in other languages), and ideally arrows too, and more thumb buttons than just 2 (ideally ctrl/win/alt/altGr and backspace/delete/space/enter). Also quite important for gaming to have modifiers and the usual keys (spacebar, tab, etc) easily available without layers, tap hold or tapdance.
The intro is such a good overview on the main principles of keyboard ergonomics/custom keebs!
You can make an extra layer to bring any keys you want to your home row or your easiest to reach keys. It's really easy with Oryx, ZSA's layout creating setup.
@@narkfly of course you can, I thought it was clear from my comment that I know. But it's not the same. Less hand movement, but also more keystrokes and more complexity, so it's not always worth it
@@Kej1m @Kej1m I am using a Moonlander with a 30 key layout as my daily driver for work - I'm a Dispatcher with an extremely time-sensetive position. If you use combos for keys like Esc & Delete (keys that are used far less frequently during typing, are typed about as frequently as punctuation) - plus dedicated thumb keys for the keys you use most while typing (Space & Backspace, you can also fit Tab & Enter here with 2 keys for each thumb & have Tap Dance go to a layer or something else when held for thumbs) - with Home Row mods or similar for your Shift, Ctrl, Alt, Win (I put all of these mods on my top row except Shift on pinky Home Row - to have layer switching on my Home Row index, middle, and ring when held) - and your main secondary layer having arrow keys under your right hand home row (on this layer, as I'm right-handed, I have my number pad on my left hand - this mirrors how left-handers mouse with their left and num pad with their right) - you can easily, easily fit all the dedicated punctuation keys you listed on your main layer with the Voyager - even without using the top Number row, which are not comfortable to reach outside of maybe 4 of the fingers on your hands. I started down this rabbit hole because of Ben's videos on his journey - and it's been a blast. There is a learning curve, but it's so much more comfortable - I have zero interest in typing on a "regular" keyboard any more.
As someone who games and studies Russian, I agree
I was thinking this the whole time. I use a traditional 104-key mechanical keyboard because I need as many keys as possible to type in Korean and Japanese. Yes, the QWERTY layout has issues for English, but it’s actually really good with other languages, especially when paired with modern IME software. I can type in multiple different scripts without buying multiple different physical keyboards, and that’s important to me and my needs when typing. Sure, a full sized keyboard isn’t always the best, but there is nothing better when you need to switch quickly between languages and when you need to use ALT codes a lot. This video was very “English centric,” and is probably great for the monolingual people out there, but this keyboard is a huge downgrade from the traditional 104-key layout when you have specific language needs.
Wow, I thought custom keyboard enthusiasts already overengineer their typing experience but you, sir, bring this to another level entirely. 😂 Anyway, lots of respect for your hints and videos! Thanks a lot!
Ben, thanks for all your reviews. You inspired me to order a ZSA Voyager.
Awesome video, thanks Ben. Was it the tactile keyswitches you have ended up preferring? I just wanted to double-check before ordering.
Cheers! Yeah brown ones - slightly heavier and with the tactile response.
This video had the opposite of its likely intended effect-pushing me away from the Voyager. I use things like em dashes too frequently to want to constantly have to use layers.
I’m now moving closer to the Kinesis Advantage 360 non-Bluetooth.
Great review Ben! I’d love to know about the felt iPad stand used at 11:38
I have The moonlander for a bunch of time and i'm entirely satisfied by it, but i have to say that the smaller form factor of that Voyager convinced me, i already ordered it right away
Hey, fellow Moonlander owner here and I'm happy with it but I'm curious about Glove 80 and Voyager. How was your experience of Voyager?
@@earthling_parth Hi so my experience with the Voyager have been great i prefer this one over the Moonlander but i guess it’s just a matter of preference, i love the key switches, i love the smaller design, the material looks more premium and solid, and the writing experience have been perfect to me, but the keys are flatter on the voyager due to the thinner form factor, so it’s all depands on what you really want, the moonlander was great but a little too big for me.
I tried the Ferris Sweep with 8-bit controllers and just found that having the outside home row keys as the shift key when held down wasn't reliable. The 16-bit controllers might work better, but in the mean time I've gone back to my Kint-modified Kinesis Advantage. It's hand wired because I destroyed the original boards but it seems to work reasonably well. I'm probably not going to spend nearly $400 for a minimalist keyboard because if I had that kind of money to throw around I'd spend it on a HAM rig. I do have the 16-bit controllers, so maybe they'll work better with the dual function shift key layout.
Shift keys as home row keys can never work due to ambiguity between a shifted rolled key or just a normal roll. It will always force a delay. Dedicated shift key is essential imo .
I have this keyboard, and I absolutely love it. It was my first split keyboard. The build quality is fantastic. The online configuration tool, Oryx is very easy and very accessible, even for a beginner. I've moved on to smaller keyboards, I prefer a 3x5 layout now, and I prefer silent switches, like a silent shrimp, or a bobo U4, there are no choc switches like that, yet. The Voyager was an important first step in my keyboard journey. I might go back to it when silent choc's become available. If RSA ever made a 34 or 36 key wireless keyboard I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Could you see if ZSA would be willing to make a 3rd party keyboard for the Framework 16 Laptop???
It would be really helpful if you could make a video showing the tripod mounting system for your keyboard set up, and where to buy the parts in the UK and how to put it together and so on. It’s all a bit of a mystery at the moment.
th-cam.com/video/mT3TToFqqEU/w-d-xo.html
You convinced me to get a Voyager. I was on the fence, but now my order is placed.
Please make a video about your treadmill setup, especially how you use it and if you have noticed long-term benefits.
Just got the voyager, my first configurable board. I love it! Ive got 2 layouts defined, and am pretty happy with having moved the home row up one and got rod of the number row. This gives me more thumb keys, and everything I need is on layers.
Fantastic video. really appreciated all your details and yet you also stayed on point and relatively concise as one can be.
I always thought that you'd return to a keyboard with enough keys for all alphas on one layer, but I'm definitely surprised to see you go so far in the other direction! (relatively speaking anyway - 52 is still tiny compared to normal keyboards).
Just out of curiosity, was there a specific reason to choose this board instead of some of your other previous choices like the Corne or Ferris Sweep? You mentioned issues of soldering and the lack of a polished complete package as a result of DIY, but I feel like there's enough decently pre-packaged boards available on Etsy or even something like the Corne-ish Zen that offer that reliability and support. Not to mention that Corne-ish Zen has wireless capability and a 36-key version, making it far more portable.
Also, another curiosity question, do you find that going back to a split is overall better than a unibody keyboard that you had previously?
I hope I don't come off as combative; I'm genuinely curious as I've been following your journey for quite some time. I do feel like this was a rather huge jump, and it was a bit jarring to see, but I also know that preferences and requirements change over time.
Yeah I'm interested as well
This. I’m surprised. I mean, one thing I missed was how better it is compared with the Sweep.
No problem at all. I didn’t spend too long on the comparisons to those because I know most people buying the Voyager are coming from mainstream keyboards not the other way around like me. The sweep and all the other 1DFU type boards are all great in that they’re small layouts with chocs. But they all have the DIY board issues, reliability and general lack of polish and robustness that the Voyager has. Cornish zen is close but still weird group buy format which I don’t like.
@@BenVallack Perfect, thank you! Agreed on the benefits of having a company like ZSA behind the product. I started my journey with the Planck EZ, but I had an issue with one of the hot-swap sockets. When I contacted support and after some basic diagnosing, they sent over a brand new board at no additional cost, and the second board worked perfectly. You definitely won't get this from the DIY sellers.
Granted, nowadays I would've just fixed it in a couple minutes by removing and re-soldering a new socket, but many are reluctant to do so or don't have the time to do it which is completely understandable. ZSA's found a great market here!
Thanks for the review! This was very thorough and a great showcase for this new keyboard. I'm certain that this will be someone's favorite keyboard (like mine is the Moonlander).
I've fallen in love with the Moonlander. I can't imagine going down to less keys - it's not for me. I use the extra thumb keys for different layers and I'll never go back.
Thank you for this in depth dive. I have been a standard KB user for decades. I have had carpel tunnel issues and my shoulders are paying a price. I have been wondering what a good first split keyboard would be. This video answered that question. Thank you again.
I have the Moonlander, discontinued ZSA line. Still feeling good with it, but the Voyager is somehow on my radar to try - but I don't have friends who have it, so waiting for them to get one so I can try to get my hands on it. I had same opportunity with the Moonlander, as my colleague has one, he has blank keys with black theme, I have with letters, and white theme, but honestly? Having bumps on "main row keys" gives me enough confidence to write without looking at the keyboard so I think my next buy (if ever, I love the Moonlander) will be with blank keys.
Nice to learn more about Voyager from you, definitely you're one of the people who I'd recommend to watch before hopping into split keyboards' journey
Thanks!
Thank you so much for this!
25:33 having recently gotten a Dygma Defy (which is wireless) I'm not ever going back to wired ever.
ZSA is very wise to send you their products! I bought the Planck EZ because of you, and now I will very likely get the Voyager too!
And though a sponsorship would be nice, I must admit its reassuring to know it's your honest opinion.
Yeah totally - great keyboard!
I've found the moonlander so satisfying over the last few months, I can imagine wanting to try the flatter/smaller voyager at some point. They're a bit pricey for my liking but I very much appreciate the hotswapable keys, oryx and customer service (I would/will hurt my wallet again).
In terms of wireless, I don't entirely like bluetooth (for input devices), because its not going to connect until your computer is fully booted, can't use it in the bios for instance or in something more temporary like a live image without pairing... on the main station I would have a permanent wire, but I would prefer an RF dongle when occasionally plugging into other things.
Really good points about bluetooth there.
Couldn't time this review better for me! I was just debating between this and the moonlander. Cheers!
God damn, that board looks delightful! I bought an Ergodox a few years back and have been really happy with it. Glad to see ZSA are still going, I've been recommending them since the purchase.
Only thing I'm missing from the Ergodox is even more aggressive tenting, so the Voyager with arms seems right up my alley..
Have you looked into the charachorder one?
28:30 you miss an important point. When you need to learn a new way to switch layers and access modifiers it is not straight forward. Also it is not compatible to a standard keyboard, which you might need or want to use. For example on the train I just want to use my laptop and will not plug in an external keyboard. For all those who want or need this form of compatibility this keyboard is not an option, because it misses the lower row with the modifiers and arrow cluster -- which can be quite handy.
I know your goal is flatness and portability, but do you have any opinions on contoured boards such as the Glove80? I think the issue of extra rows is mostly fixed with a contoured profile, given the curvature of the profile is supposed to better match the pivoting of your gingers, meaning less overall distance moved per finger, i.e. less effort in movement.
I use a kinesis, the difference is night and day, it's way more comfortable to type on a dished keyboard. Works great for gaming too.
I agree ghat dished or contoured boards are the most ergonomic, but have you heard the Glove80? It sounds so cheap and plasticky, especially given that it costs so much
@@TravisHi_YTThe kinesis does look great. I’ve built a lot of keyboards at this point but I haven’t tried keywells yet.
@@cyanophage4351 It doesn't feel cheap. And in contrast to e.g. the Kinesis Advantage360 (which some people don't find cheap), mine do not have any scuffs (the 360 had scuffs after using the palm pads a handful times).
The Glove80 is great if you need to maintain the number of keys, but you're still working with more rows than you can reach without moving your hands a lot. If you need that many keys, the Glove80 is a great way to reduce reach, but otherwise you should consider at least getting down to 4 rows, but 3 is better IMO
This is a brilliant keyboard. I use it for my "on the go" keyboard at coworking spaces or when I'm on a trip and couldn't be happier with it.
Ah, I was waiting for your review
What are the tripod mounts used in this video?
Hi. I loved your video. thx
What was tha app you used on 16:40 to test finger touch?
I also do custom keyboard (but for fun only) and I really love to have some app to test where I touch with my fingers so I can adjust the keys to have less effort.
thx
I was really expecting your review on this new little guy. Thanks.
I recently got a sofle choc, which is fairly similar but a lot cheaper and it has knobs (which i find pretty useful i.e. 1 is for volume the other i use as arrow keys, clicking is pause media). It is taking me a while to adapt to the new layout, as i have dyspraxia and have never been a good typist to begin with. But it is so much fun and has reduced a lot of my chronic wrist pain.
I bought the Moonlander Mark I because of a shoulder injury. I noticed my shoulder hurt when I typed but I could play FPS games for hours. I guessed, and it was a expensive guess, that it was because my hands were a shoulder distance apart. I invested in the Moonlader and it got rid of my shoulder pain, I keep them shoulder width apart and actually when not gaming, I use my mouse between them. When gaming it is comfortable to move my right hand side right next to my left and my mouse to the right. Everyone I watch using split keyboards never used them 'split', they're always right next to each other.
Yeah I'm pretty happy using splits quite wide - the way I use mine now though is about 10" apart but with big tenting and a long way below my elbows - that seems to be extremely comfortable for me long term.
One thing with the high actuation force switches is that they might actually bounce back up faster, which makes them feel faster.
Really tempted to get this keyboard now. Would love to see you do a review of the Keyboardio Atreus. That's a small form factor keyboard that I've found to be my favorite for a bit now.
Since trying my first Corne with Choc switches, I've been debating what to get next. I did purchase what I thought would be similar, but the quality just wasn't there. I'd been thinking about the Corneish Zen for a while, but once ZSA launched this, I was stumped between the two options. You've just helped me make up my mind. Very compelling video. Thank you so much. I've loved following your journey and hope you aren't stuck with existential dread trying to figure out what to do next. ;)
I feel like you should really take a look at the Glove 80
Ditto, I'm very tempted but it's hard to find reliable reviews of it.
man ive been eyeing this for a while now to have the split experience at my office and keep my planck for travelling. Really want this voyager
As always, enjoyed watching your video
Hello Ben! I've tried home row mods for quite some time for now, however I still can't figure out how long to set tapping term to with my average speed being around 80 WPM. Since you've used home modes with similar speed on your 18 keys, I wonder what length of the tapping term did you find fitting ?
I’ll do a video on home row mod settings on my keyboard channel soon I think.
@@BenVallack I’m very interested in learning about this too :)
I kinda wonder how well this keyboard would work as a daily driver when one also games, FPS or strategy game or similar. Does anyone have any experience with that?
Just got one recently. It is incredibly good and keymapp is so well made that I'm trying out new keyboard layouts. Before this I was using the planck ez for a few years, which I also found out about from this channel!
Really good video. Thanks for the effort. I am still way to poor to get this keyboard but the voyager is on my list of what I want to get into and use.
1:26 but I don't rotate my wrists! they a in neutral position except when i need to reach the corner keys like ~ or backspace.
Staggered keys may make no sense now but they were essential on old manual typewriters. If the keys were lined up in columns, four levers in each column would be on top of each other. They had to be staggered so the levers could move past one another. If you draw verticle lines through the center of each key, you will see how this works and why the top row is staggered more than the others. Of course, the stagger is no longer necessary, but neither is QWERTY. I've used ortholinear keyboards and there's no learning curve. They're very easy to use. But there are other, more important considerations for me.
What a phenomenal, thorough review!
I've spent 25 years searching for the best keyboard, buying and using many exotic varieties, and what I learned is that the best for me is a standard 65% to 75% layout with QMK and hotswap, in a personalized dvorak layout. I used to think staggered rows were a bad design, but it makes a lot more sense than people give it credit for.
why? what do you like or prefer or at least not mind with a standard keyboard?
@@nickgoogle4525Hi, sorry, I tried to answer but youtube blocked it.
Man, the ZSA products always look so good. You're paying the price for a niche but polished experience, it's great that the option exists. But there's one thing I wish ZSA did, and that's releasing a product for those of us with smaller hands. The moonlander and the voyager thumb clusters are just too far away from the homerow when you're on the petite side.
Maybe it's just the angle, but at the part showing typing on the ISRT layout, it doesn't look like the hand is on the home row all that much.
14:58 When you're using tap/hold keys, does tapping give input on press, or on release?
Release, crucially, release of the hold key not the trigger key. It won’t fire until the hold key is held for the specified duration.
@@BenVallack thanks for the clarification! So I assume it would be impossible for the tap key to give an input like, for example in a videogame, to make the W key do both 'walk forward' and 'sprint' depending on how long you hold the key down. But I assume it wouldn't work because the tap function only gives a momentary input on releasing the key
I just started using the Voyager and I want to love it, but there's just one glaring issue so far:
Why is the inner column staggered so much?
The pointer finger from home key to inner bottom key (J > N in QWERTY) is actually just painful for me so far.
The DIY options like Corne & Sweep seem to have it figured out where the inner column is not staggered. Even Ergodox EZ doesn't have this problem.
Hi Ben, I kinda have spent the past 10 days devouring your channel. GREAT CONTENT.
I am curious about two things:
1st: Are you still daily driving the Voyager?
2nd: I have seen no video of yours talking about the ISRT layout. There are some videos where you do mention the past steps of your "layout-journey" but you don't tell us much about your switch from Colemak DH to ISRT. I think that would be a cool video to watch.
thank you!
Thanks! Yeah I'll do a video on that at some stage. Basically I think there are so many amazing modern layouts that we're spoilt for choice. I'm still using the Voyager as my daily driver yep!
@@BenVallack there are a lot that seem great and I’m still struggling to find which one to pick: I write in German, Spanish and English regularly and I’d love to find a way to use just one layout for all of them. I might try ISRT and have German Umlauts (üöä) on a second layer. It would be a cool exercise though, to design a layout for a given set of languages.
hi can you PLEASE do a video explaining how you interact with vim using these types of keyboard layouts? i especially find trouble customizing my keyboard and accessing navigation and the function keys
Sorry first reply was wrong comment! Try this: th-cam.com/video/pVSrHdY2EqA/w-d-xo.html
Keyboard seems so close together and I'm a little surprised this costs the same as the Moonlander.
Looks cool, but it’s way way too much wires. I’d only consider something like this if the put a big battery in it.
Very similar to my Sofle split, which I absolutely love. Columnar layouts just make so much sense. I don't think I'm ready to move away from Qwerty though!
I have a Moonlander, with a lot of blank spaces, and a Corne 5x3+3. I would have preferred the Voyager reduce the number of rows, but keep the three thumb keys of the Moonlander. That's why I went with the Corne.
Looks nice, but I think for me that's too few keys. I think the sweet-spot is the Kinesis Advantage (whichever version... probably 2), but I just unpacked a new MoErgo Glove80 and I think that this one is here to stay. Clicky, low profile keys, very close to Kinesis Advantage layout, and comes with a carrying case and has Bluetooth if needed. Also supports various tenting configurations and mounting options.
The one you just showcased there is nice. But I just need more thumb buttons, and at least an extra row under the ZXC line for esc, up/down etc to avoid the need for too many multi-press actions.
One thing you (I think) forgot to mention, is that once you are used to a non-staggered keyboard, you won't have trouble typing numbers anymore. Sure, I can type numbers on my macbook, when that's the only option, but there is nothing like banging numbers out on a non-staggered keyboard with almost the speed of a dedicated numpad ... ;)
Just my 2c .... I definitely agree, that staggered keyboards should to. Unfortunately, I am 99.9% sure that it won't be Apple who puts a decent keyboard on a laptop, and if laptops keep using that stupid layout/configuration, unfortunately they will be here to stay. Staggered keyboards are like plague.
A mirrored stagger makes more sense than ortho for laptop. Ortho/column stagger isn't really better unless the hands are spaced or angled in. And ortho/column stagger is just terrible on qwerty in general.
just as a project while i'm learning to code i was thinking of making something that make it where you can use a video game controller as a keyboard
Got the Moonlander myself and love it, I got blank caps to force myself to learn touch typing as I was still looking at the keyboard despite having been a programmer for years! For gaming however I go for the Azeron Cyborg, I've considered it for typing but I feel typing and gaming differ quite drastically when it comes to input.
An old but timeless video. We raise it if you are new here... _))
I got the desk clamps to go with the Voyager. They're great for experimentation on the journey to find your ideal setup. But the way you use them is not for me. I find that having the mouse easily accessible with my right hand is crucial for the way I work.
I'm now gravitating towards a setup where I mount the double ball joint thing to a piece of plywood that can sit on the desk. I just swapped out the clamp for a mounting plate that's screwed on the plywood. That allows wrist/palm support when I need it and the mouse is easily reachable.
The inspiration came out of this video though. Good stuff!
Yeah it does make it harder to get to the mouse - however I found the tenting so much better it was worth getting used to. I can now reliably re-land my hand on the keyboard without any adjustment without looking but I do also take steps to minimise mouse use as well.
Did you find your end-game keyboard? What's your current daily driver?
Voyager 😀
1:18 that is not really true. For some reason we choose asdf jkl; to be the "home row" but if we simply change that sdfv njkl than the problem is solved. I never learned to type with the ergonomic home row so I don't really know if that has hidden probables but it looks like an obvious solution if we didn't want to change the world standard (which we do)
Even with that changed homerow one of my issues with qwerty still exist, the highest used keys are still just a bit off the home row. It's why I love Colemak, you just roll your hands side to side to type (still not as optimized as, say, rollmak, but still lovely to use
@@hexaltheninjawow9531 tbh I am an opponent of Colemak and Dvorak at the moment because they are both designed to only write average English in the ~80s which does not translate well to other languages or even more specific use cases like programming where symbols would probably be more used than any letter. I am a bit of an idealist so I'd actually rather have a completely shuffled layout. I am very curious if emerging technology can make all keyboards customizable with dynamic legends so that everyone can come up with a layout that works best for them and use some sort of quick contact technology to switch any keyboard to that
@@StarOnCheek That’s very much fair enough. I’m not sure about legends that swap on the fly but I do have something you may like; “Oxey’s Layout Playground.” It is a layout customizer and analyzer made by Oxey, known for making several (kinda) ofte-used custom layouts. Essentially it's a drag-and-drop system where you can see how effective a layout, compare it to other layouts, and look at it in different languages.
Since you’re here there’s a good chance you already know and use it, but it's always nice to show it to people if they don’t already know :)
what is the mount for the desk in this video, I would like a setup like that.
Have you looked into keyboards with key wells? Like the Glove80, Kinesis 360 or even dactyl manuform? I find the keywell makes it nicer and easier to hit the keys comfortably and accurately. After getting used to it, I really don't like typing on flat keyboards anymore. Although I could imagine that using more layers and fewer buttons makes this benefit less relevant.
Yeah I think thats the crux of it - there are two paths to solving the issue of stretching to reach keys. Bringing them nearer with key wells or just using a smaller layout. The latter has the advantage of remaining portable so thats the camp I'm in at the moment.
Where di you get the blanking caps for the spots where you had no switches?