"80% learning on day 1 while making the move form traditional key layout to orthogonal keys" is a complete overstatement and I would even go on to say its misguiding (sorry). It took me well over a month to get to my normal rhythm with the new layout. The change in the feeling from "Aargh! why I bought this keyboard" to "I can't live without this keyboard" came around the turn of the week 2 to week 3. I have gone through other review videos and they share similar feedback, check other reviews out for yourself before investing. I am a model developer and have been using my Kinesis for more than 2 years now. Apart from that, nice video :)
Experiences definitely vary. I wouldn't say on the first day, but I'm currently on day 3 with my 46 key dactyl manuform and have reached 80% of my old typing speed. And that's after having to rewire my brain to hit ZXCVB with the correct fingers, after typing them "wrong" for a couple decades. The keywell and column stagger clicked pretty immediately, it's very comfortable. Special characters are a bit of a struggle because I haven't built the muscle memory for my layers yet, but I know where they all are since my layout is completely custom, which has allowed me to make some very easy such as ( ) [ ] { } on my index/middle fingers. Putting an arrow keys layer on my home row has made editing text way faster already.
I would love to try a keyboard like this, it's just that the price is so ridiculously huge that it's a massive investment for something that's quite subjective.
I got the Glove80 from first batch and I'm perfectly used to it now, it is my first ergo / nextgen keyboard, I love it, I don't like using usual keyboards now. Howerer, I had a different experience than you learning to use it. To learn Glove80, you have to switch using the pinky to using the thumb for most of the main modifier and main keys: Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Enter, Backspace, Delete. This was hard to learn and unintuitive for days, ~2-3 weeks. The thumbs now have 4-6 frequent keys to manage instead of 1,5. But it's definitely worth it, I am no longer twisting my wrist all the time to hit Shift+X or Ctrl+X or Ctrl+Shift/Alt+X (it is often usefull even when coding in Vim), this is a MASSIVE game changer in typing comfort, undoubtly worth it !! Yeah the battery lasts way longer (2-3 month for left half) than what is advertised (3weeks for left half), as long as you don't use the lights I guess. I think the right half lasts 4-6 month when the battery is new and you don't use lights xD
I think my experience was a bit smoother primarily because I had been using home row mods prior to getting the Glove80, and simply continued to use home row mods once I got the Glove80. So the modifier keys were essentially in the same place they already were for me. Despite that the thumb clusters still took some getting used to, since on most split ortho boards they are placed more directly under the palm, whereas on the Glove they require the thumb to stretch such that it's more perpendicular to the other fingers
@@gagandeepbhatia9165 after 6 more month of usage, I swapped to using the "homerow mode" (modifier keys on the main row when keys are pressed prolonged time instead of hit), and I'm even more happy with it. Using all thumb cluster keys wourd hurt my wrist because I took the habit to stick the palms on the parm rest, which led me to overextend the thumbs laterally leading to start of pain. Now I only use one thumb key each side xD Another solution would have been to remove the parm rest (so I move my hand instead of overextending the thumb). But I think this happened to me because my hands are large enough for me to reach all keys with the palms sticking on the palm rest. I still think that the glove is totally worth it, even if using one thumb key, because of the geometry AND easy/infinite personalization with open source firmware (eg: homerowmode).
I got my first split keyboard thanks to you. It arrived yesterday and while I still suck with it (ortholinear layout is weird, I always find myself overreaching). I got the Keebio iris rev 8, but something tells me this is just the beginning of the rabbit hole.
nice! agree the layout feels ultra alien at first. but you'll adapt to it quicker than you think. and yes, I'm happy to confirm that it is indeed a rabbit hole 😎
agree 💯. The elevated upper keys on the thumb cluster are a real game changer - adds 6 more easily accessible keys that even most split ergo boards don't have
I am a huge keyboard snob - Couldn't live without my Kinesis' (plural) - However you have given me reason to look much closer at the glove80 - Thanks for the thoroughness!
thanks for watching! I think Kinesis would be next in line for me if we lived in a world without Glove80 - fantastic boards. But Glove80 is definitely worth checking out 😎
Hello, fellow keyboard snob here. See my lengthy reply to some other comment with my thoughts about various keyboards, which sadly I can't find right now on mobile. In short: my current favorite keyboard is a non-Pro wired Kinesis 360. The Glove80 I got 2 days ago is already on second rank in my book, with others such as ErgoDox, Moonlander and Voyager further behind. We'll see if/how this changes in time, but the Glove80 definitely has a lot of potential and left a great first impression.
I bought the Glove80 because of your review, have used it for a week, and have decided it is not for me. It's mainly due to (1) the raised pinky finger rows, which I can't get used to, (2) the keycaps are too slippery (I prefer some textured touch), and, as you have pointed out, (3) too many keys (can do without the top 2 rows). Also, the 1-year warranty compared to the 2-year+ warranty from other premium keyboard manufacturers (ZSA & Dygma) shows Moergo's lack of confidence in the longevity of the keyboard. Not to mention plastic vs metal. The good things I find about Glove80 are (1) excellent documentation and (2) the Custom Defined Behaviours in the Layout Editor, which are helpful for power users. In the meantime, I have switched back to my Corne keyboard and put in an order for a ZSA Voyager. If anyone is interested in getting a Glove80, you can find my 1 week old Glove80 v2 and the tripod mounting kit on eBay tomorrow.
Great content! I was originally going to get a Moonlander, but got a Piantor instead after seeing your first video. I'm very pleased with it, and falling down a very deep and expensive rabbit hole!
I could do Glove 48 (eliminate the bottom row of keys too), or even Glove 42 (chop off the outermost columns) but Glove36 means we'd be nerfing the thumb clusters! I've been a happy user of 36 key boards in the past but I think I'd find it hard to go without the 6 key thumb clusters now 😎
So I got the glove80 thanks to your previous video, I already feel comfortable typing with it, I found the documentation on how to install your own layout was a bit lacking and I agree that the top two rows of the keyboard are a little harder to reach so I only use 58 keys
Would be nice to see the video with a deep dive inside your ZMK layout: how you manage it, how your HRM is configured, number or layers, how you switch between them and etc
Same! I just bought a Glove80 today and am completely new to customizable keyboards. Would love to see your dev layout. If I need to relearn how to type, might as well start on an appropriate layout :)
@@w00tehpwn I have been using columnar keyboards for a decade, and of all of the odd things I have programmed into them, putting the Shift key under the left thumb has been the most impactful. I will never go back to twisting my hand to press the Shift with my pinky! Second best thing was to put all of the number keys on the home row in another layer. You really only need three rows if you have a bunch of thumb keys; just use one to switch to another layer with the keys you want within easy reach.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:04 🌟 The Glove80 keyboard is highly praised for its ergonomic design and productivity-enhancing features. 01:28 🎮 It's considered a NextGen keyboard due to its departure from traditional typewriter-style layouts. 02:09 ⌨️ The Glove80 features an ortholinear/column stagger design, reducing finger strain and optimizing key placement. 02:38 🔄 The curved key well on the Glove80 reduces finger movement for increased typing efficiency. 03:05 🔊 The Chalk key caps and switches on the Glove80 are shorter and quieter than traditional ones. 03:48 📱 It supports Bluetooth and can connect to up to four devices, making it versatile for various setups. 04:01 ⚙️ The Glove80 offers three key switch options: linear, tactile, and clicky, each with its unique feel and sound. 07:57 🎨 The stock key caps on the Glove80 are made of PAL material, offering a soft yet grippy texture. 09:20 🧩 The Glove80 key caps are uniform, allowing flexible layout customization, including international layouts. 10:56 💪 The build quality of the Glove80 is sturdy and lightweight, dispelling concerns about its construction. 11:38 🔋 The battery life of the Glove80 is impressive, lasting weeks or months, even with RGB lighting disabled. 12:18 📈 The Glove80 supports tenting and tilting for customizable ergonomic preferences. 13:40 ⌨️ The keyboard layout on the Glove80 can be highly customized through either the UI configurator or direct firmware editing. 15:02 🪑 The Glove80 offers a unique chair mount accessory that lets you attach the keyboard to your chair for added convenience. 17:39 🚀 Compared to other NextGen keyboards like the Moonlander, Corn, and Kinesis Advantage 360, the Glove80 offers a distinct combination of features and layout preferences. 19:32 🧩 Keycaps on the Kinesis Advantage 360 aren't uniform and can't be easily interchanged between rows, unlike the Glove80. 20:00 🖐️ The Glove80 is deliberately designed for different hand sizes, accommodating a variety of users. 20:28 📈 Learning to use a NextGen keyboard like the Glove80 has a moderate learning curve, with most users adapting within a day and gradually improving over several weeks. 21:37 🤷 Some users may not use the top two rows of keys on the Glove80 and might prefer a slightly more compact version. 22:05 🔌 The Glove80's switches are soldered onto the PCB, making it challenging to change them, which could be a consideration for those who enjoy experimenting with different switches. Made with HARPA AI
I am all in ... Glove58 all the way. I would personally want a Glove36 but even 58 would work for me. The size and number of unused keys for my setup is the only reason I haven't bought one.
I had a much longer learning curve to get competent with the glove80, coming from a non-split board. I can type ~100 WPM on a traditional board, and I'm currently averaging 70 WPM on the glove80 after about a month of daily use. The first few days I felt like I had holes in my brain trying to find the keys. Once I was comfortable with the layout, I still had to break habits that caused me to make errors. Most of my errors occur on keys near the inside of the board, because these keys are the easiest to reach when "crossing over" the middle line. Another habit to break is "rolling" multiple fingers on keys from the same column, which is essentially impossible in an ortholonear layout.
i hear you - it can definitely take awhile to get back to your typing speed on a traditional board. After about 9 months of ortho boards, I still type *slightly* faster on a traditional board (~130wpm on a "good" test), but my ortho speed has almost caught up (~120wpm on a "good" test). I suspect they will converge pretty soon, and those typing tests generally don't include many of the characters that I've made more easily accessible on ortho boards like these +-|=_[]{}()}
@@codetothemoonCan your brain switch between ortho linear and classic layouts, like that? I was always wondering what will happen to my classic layout typing performance, after I learn another layout. Stopping me from making the switch.
yeah I can relate to this - I generally don't use the top two rows (though the F keys come in handy when I need to get into the BIOS on my windows machine!). If they made one without the top two rows they'd have my money immediately
This is a good video, as a rust developer trying to build a corne, which was working for awhile, it is very rewarding. I have also been looking into the other main keyboards voyager, dygma defy, globe and a unicorn lp for the next keyboard. Having short stubby fingers I have found the corne lp with choc keycaps a little bit crowded.
thanks! Props for building a Corne yourself - I'm not sure I have the patience. If you like chocs but find the Corne LP crowded, you *might* like the Glove80, as I think the key well curvature helps quite a bit with comfort
It took a bit of searching, but the reason why Moergo provides only the white keycaps by default is: the black keycaps does not work well with the RGB (they let through almost no light at all). So the contrast between the black keyboard with white could be a small downside to some, but I kind of like it
Got a Moonlander with Cherry white linear. using Colmak DH setup . Perfect for me , have layers for gaming as left handed, Zbush , Blender , Substance . Love how easy it is to create macros and multi key taps.
Nice! Props on tackling Colemak, i started last year but haven’t seen it through yet. Agree wrt the programmability - definitely something that many folks don’t fully utilize!
im also a fan of chair mount but you gotta try lapdesk (wide) with recliner in Windows Mixed Reality or SimulaVR with high resolution vr headset (hp reverb g2 is best pixel for your buck).
try out the Dactyl Manuform. if youre into 3D printing and can navigate a config file for parametric models you can essentially completely customize all aspects of these types of boards from tenting to digit depth and alot more.
I've actually been quite interested in trying a Dactyl, I think I may like it. I'm a little concerned about the height off the desk and how that's going to feel, but I'm guessing that could be mitigated with some good palm rests. Is Dactyl your daily driver?
I have a question, I saw in your other video that you don't really use upper two rows. If so, wouldn't a keyboard like Piantor be a better choice? Do you need curve if you use only three rows anyway? I don't own any keyboards like that right now and want to buy one soon, so I'm really curious about that. I really like the idea of using the layer functionality, wouldn't the top two rows feel kind of wasted?
I use an Ergodox EZ, a good introduction to split boards. At first, I felt like I needed to fill every key. But then I realized that mundane boards include keys I never use so (and I watched Ben Vallack not only not use, but fully remove switches, from his Moonlander).... I started changing my layout to emulate other, smaller boards. My previous layout looked like a six column Corne (aka Crkbd). After using that for a few months, I struggled with some chords (aka keyboard shortcuts) I often use on the number row and symbols from the number row. Plus, I want to have at least three keys in the thumb cluster with rotary encoders. I decided to emulate the Lily58. It has too many thumb keys for me but I get my number row back and I get encoders without sacrificing my three thumb keys (I decided to use one more per half: I now use four). I also took the inner most column of keys (three on the Ergodox) to emulate the rotary encoders. When the time comes, I'll buy a Lily58 kit and build it. But in the meantime, one keyboard can be many others. If the board fits you, you don't have to use all the keys, or use some of them for things like starting scripts or launching apps, function keys, etc. Things you might only use occasionally. If you build your board or supply your own switches, you only need to buy as many switches/caps as you use. There are 3D print designs for switch caps that cover the connections for the switches you don't put on the board. Another advantage of the EZ is the maker, ZSA, offers a great graphical interface for writing the firmware. It doesn't do everything QMK is capable of but I'm down to just the basics (as fancy as I get is word caps and momentary hold to switch layers), so I use less than the interface offers anyway. But it offers all tap-dance options, macros, tapping-term adjustments, and more.
good question - luckily my workflow minimizes mouse usage (I'm an emacs person) so I just leave it on the desk and reach for it on the somewhat rare occasions that I need it. But there is a variant of the chair mount where the acrylic plastic on the bottom of the board extends outwards to give you space to place a mouse or trackball. So that's an option as well
Great review, very inspiring. I'd like to know, do you still need a mouse with a keyboard like this? In other words, can you navigate and select and click with this keyboard? Having it on your chair made me think it was the case. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks! I still use a mouse, but I spend much my time in Emacs where I don't use one. I'm not sure if you can set up the board to control the mouse, great question. Maybe check with MoErgo!
what I really want to know - the kenesis has deeper keys, how much of a difference does this make? my experience is that low-profile keys increase typing errors.. also, many of us like to use our keyboards for gaming - how does the glove80 handle the traditional WASD configuration?
re: lower profile keys - I personally don't feel like they increase typing errors, but they are definitely very taste specific. most folks tend to either love or hate them, though I find myself somewhere in the middle. re: gaming - I haven't been using my Glove80 for the rare occasions that I play games - I've been using my Keychron Q1 instead. But that's more because I use home row mods on the Glove80 which basically preclude using the WASD keys. I could easily configure another layer to remove the home row mods specifically for gaming, I just haven't gotten around to it. the WASD keys might be a little awkward because the A key is raised a bit higher than the other 3 keys due to the fact that it's meant for the pinky. That said, I tried emulating gameplay on it for a minute and it's not something that I think would bother me much personally. YMMV - the board definitely isn't built with WASD gaming as a top priority.
I looked for it and I couldn't find any shops or companies that sell split keyboards in my country. Now I'm contemplating custom making my own (3D printing the case and such). I've been wanting one since the moonlander released two years ago.
ohh ooc what country do you hail from? they are somewhat hard to come by even in the states - many of my boards I've ordered from beekeeb.com who I believe is based in Hong Kong. MoErgo doesn't ship to your country?
@@codetothemoon I live in Iran and you can't shop internationally here because we are disconnected from the financial system. I looked among local shops and already imported stuff (You can't simply order for something outside the borders) and couldn't find anything.
why do these keyboards put limit on how many devices you can control, It makes no sense because they are not adding antennas they are just adding a software switch, a list of devices to connect to, nothing more. I have done overemployment, so I have 2 work laptops, 1 personal laptop, 1 gaming desktop, 1 phone, 1 tablet and I wanna be able to control all of them.
nice! yeah for those of us without time (or desire) to build a board ourselves, sometimes it can seem like the options are a bit limited. I'm relieved that Glove80 is one of those options 😎
Finding for software development I am still needing some sort of pointer device. Are you using a mouse or found a better alternative? Does the split keyboard affect how you use the pointer device?
i still use a mouse (Razer DeathAdder to be specific). For the most part this board doesn't change how i use it. I haven't tried one yet, but I'm very curious about keyboards with built in trackballs
@@codetothemoon Not tried the built-ins yet, been wanting to. I've tried a roller-bar mouse. While great ergonomically, it does suffer from a speed/accuracy issues. Basically it sat centrally between the user and the keyboard. I'm also considering a thumb joystick (like a game controller) if I can find one. In a future video it would be nice to see you move between mouse and keyboard to see if there is any issue with putting your hand back onto the home keys.
Crap - I'm at that stage of the decision making process where I already put it in the shopping cart 🙈 Soo expensive, but I really like the customizations you did to your layout. Thanks for making this video.
I have glove 80 and Zsa voyager and I’m not sure which one I love moore. They are both super comfy to type on but the voyager has significantly less keys and is much more portable
@@codetothemoon I just received the voyager today so I’m not sure how I am going to be impacted by the overall lack of keys. I have pretty small hands which seems a better fit on the voyager. I can reach all parts of the keyboard without a problem which is not the case for the glove 80. However, there is no doubt the curved key well, even with my small hands is just comfortable to type on. But I don’t find the glove 80 all that portable. I wfh and travel quite a bit and needed a portable solution for when I am on the road or working out of town. I will post more after I’ve had more time with the voyager. Thank you for a great video!!
@@shabaz1212see my lengthy reply to some other comment about that, which sadly I can't find right now on mobile. In short: Depends on your goals. For my use case I'd already prefer my brand new Glove80, but Voyager is more portable. My favorite for now is Kinesis 360 wired non-Pro, but I only just got Glove80 2 days ago, so take this with a grain of salt
Just bought the glove80 in a black friday clearance sale. Looking forward to playing with it, especially since I am a programmer. My wrist and elbow pain is awful so i am hoping this thing helps.
@@loicquivron3872 I love this keyboard. After about a week, I was able to get back up to 120 words per minute and now I'm back up to my original 150 words per minute. The only thing that I'm still a little bit rusty on is working with my programming layer.
@@codetothemoon I've been using it for some time now. And I must say I'm beyond happy after like almost a month of usage. In the beginning it was a bit hard to adjust (I've been using some ordinary membrane dell keyboard before). But after forcing myself to use it everyday regardless, I've noticed getting more and more comfortable day by day. As of now I still rarely find myself missing some key, but it is not as frequent as before. As to comfort of usage, I absolutely love it. Best keyboard I've ever had. The comfort of having every key so close, and not needing to move your hand at all is amazing. I'm using the default glove layout btw. I love the fact that arrow keys are so close, so I can quickly run previous command in a terminal, or jump to another pane in tmux. The price was a bit high, but as a programmer working 5 days a week, and also studying CS on uni (so practically I'm coding everyday 7 days a week) it is a justified investment.
Nice and detailed review. I have a question for the people that use these keyboards on a daily basis: how easy is to switch back to normal ones, if the need occurs. I ended up doing a lot of work, on the go e.g. coffee shops, following my kids extracurricular activities. Buying such an expensive keyboard is an investment of money and time (being accustomed to). It would be a waste if working between layouts, slows me down. What happens if you can not take your next gen keyboard with you some times?? Thanks.
thanks! I wouldn't say it's completely effortless to switch back to a "traditional" board, but it is not that hard either. there is slight mental barrier to get over in the first 5-10 minutes or so of use, but after that it feels "familiar" again.
You can take the keyboard on and off pretty easily, but taking off the arms that hold the keyboard requires a bit more work. I think the graphics tablet would have to continue to live on the desk - unless it is really small. You might be able to fit it on the version of the chair mount that has room for the mouse. Definitely reach out to MoErgo, they might have a solution around this!
Thanks for your interest! long story short there are arms that attach to the chair using a clamp, and on the other side they have a ball head similar to what you'd have on a camera tripod. Then there is an acrylic piece of plastic you can mount to the bottom of the keyboard, which attaches to the ball head. Definitely reach out to MoErgo for more details - I'm sure they'll be happy to give you a run through!
@@codetothemoon Thank you for your reply. Do you think it worth to attach it to the herman miller aeron chair for long term as you tried it, or it is more comfortable to have it on the table
Thanks for the review, I watched your other video and you said that you bought keychron q1. How would you compare it to glove80? I am torn on my next keyboard purchase. I have been debating between keychron q1 and glove80. I never owned a spilt keyboard before. So what would you recommend? 😅
two very very different boards. If you don't want to invest the time into adapting to ortholinear and want to stick with a more traditional board, Q1 is a great option. But assuming you're willing to invest the time into learning (imo you'll get an outsized return on the investment), I think the Glove80 is better in pretty much every way.
Hey, thanks for the video, was quite useful! Seeing the arm chair mount I got really excited as about 15 years ago I came up with a similar design (I am sure I am not the only one), but this is the first time I am seeing it someone actually implemented that! I want to try that! A small note, when you are using the arm rest, this should be in level of your forearm - in the video you see some angles that would result in your wrist bending back, causing some tension. When it is leveled, the hand will be exactly in a position like on a piano - that is for the maximum and most efficient grip on keys. Thanks again man, will check Glove 80 straight away!
I have two of them and agree that it is the best format for a full size keyboard. The next generation should include the option to include MX style switches because choc switches are fairly unsatisfying and lack character. The switch options are probably my biggest criticism of the glove. If you're looking for a minimalist board the best is the Corne.
For the past couple months I've been using an Iris, and the process of building a custom keyboard was fun, and I love the split, but having to use a 2nd layer I find too annoying,.I keep mixing up layer 2 keys. And I heard the Primeagen argue that he considers a concave to be even more important than a split in a keyboard so I want to try that. And the more keys should keep me on a single layer. I am leaning towards the glove over the Kenisis because of the function keys, also the white option will fir the esthetic of my desk better.
The number of keys could be reduced even further, the most ideal would probably be just 10 keys, so that the fingers don't have to lift and fumble at all. And that such a thing is not possible? Here are some principles and tricks, some of which I use in my own program (Key³): long press (my method since 1996, Sam Coupé computer, my OS Explosion) double press (my method since 1996, Sam Coupe computer, my OS Explosion) shallow press (analogue magnetic keyboards) deep press (analog magnetic keyboards) combination of the previous extra shift methods (sync, async, ... my idea from 2013) extended shift modes (my idea from 2024 based on order and length, I won't specify) touch layer (my idea from 2022) I believe this keyboard is very comfortable, but I wouldn't tolerate it, I like straight lines, last year I stood in front of a bent monitor for a while and really had to exert myself a lot not to straighten it :)
Great video! You might want to adjust/increase the camera focus depth (or if it's a software effect) when showing things closer to the camera. In this video they mostly become blurred out and it's hard to make out any detail.
thank you, and this is great feedback! I deliberately used a wide aperture to get the background to be a little more blurry, but only after recording did I notice the consequence of making the keyboard blurry when I hold it out in front of me!
Great video!!! I was about to take the Glove80 but I finally purchased the Voyager. I’m still waiting for it. Do you know it? Any feedback on it? Thanks again
I use the mouse, I just stick to the keyboard as much as possible. In vim / emacs there are many ways to scroll without the mouse, and you can use a plugin like Vimium to get similar behavior in the web browser
interesting - I haven't personally had any issues with the bluetooth, as long as I turn on the left half first. Are you turning on the left unit prior to turning on the right unit? I have had the initial connection take a long time when I accidentally turn on the right half first - not exactly sure why this is
I agree with the 58-key version. I built a Ferris Sweep after watching the video that you linked in this video. I then found the ZSA Voyager, bought that and have been using it ever since. I really hope mo ergo makes a smaller, portable version. As for alternate switches, I changed my Kailh browns with the Kailh Sunset switches.
How have you been enjoying the voyager? I am currently between the Voyager and the Glove80 and I can't decide. I am a software eng coming from traditional mechanical keyboards so this will be my first split.
I went straight from typing on my custom Keychron Q1 Pro to Miryoku QMK for my choc Ferris Sweep with Colmak-DHm. I figured, if I'm going to learn split I might as well jump in the deep end and not confuse my muscle memory when I switch to qwerty on a laptop. Now I want more keys. 34 is just a little restrictive. Even though I do enjoy home row mods.
thank you for the great review, you convinced me. After seeing your video, I bought mine, too. I just got it today. Can you share more details of your layout? I am a programmer too. I like where you put your brackets, but I am wondering where you left the modifiers
I don’t think this is made very clear, but the main difference between linear and tactile is that you can FEEL the activation point (that is when the key generates an input) on tactile switches, where with linear switches there is no bump. The only time you would actually hear a sound on linear switches is when you bottom out the key, which you don’t have to do to make them function. So if you’re always bottoming out keys, on the same board you wouldn’t actually hear any difference whatsoever between linear and tactile switches. Clicky switches go one step further, the activation point gives an audible and a tactile feedback. So sounds like you should be maining linear.
hi just got my board today. Was googling different key-layouts and I found this excellent video . Would you mind sharing your key-layouts? I am not intending to use as is but to use an example of what might be useful for me. I use a lot of shortcuts like ctrl+shift+f12 etc and in default layout it would require me to move my hands completely from the home row , which defeats the purpose of the keyboard. I would be interested to see how you have solved this problem. Thank you
sure! here's my fork of the glove80 zmk repository: github.com/MoonKraken/glove80-zmk-config. Function keys aren't really one of the things I'm optimizing for in my layout, but with mine you'd first hold the S and F keys with the left hand, then press the rightmost thumb key with your right hand, and finally press the key immediately up and to the left of where your left pinky sits on the home row. if I were doing such a thing often I'd probably adjust my layout to make it slightly easier.
@@codetothemoon How are S and F not typing S and F? Are you talking about typing ctrl+shift+f12? Sounds like S and/or F type S and F on key release only if not combined with other keys?!? (Sounds like a big disadvantage...)
I've tried a few (2) alternative layout keyboards over the past 10 years, and they never stuck. I can't see $400 for something that I'm most likely not going to be able to make my every day driver.
I like the idea of mounting a keyboard to my chair, but I wonder how you deal with the mouse in that case? When you're sitting back in your chair, it seems like you'd need to lean forward to reach the desk and use the mouse when you need to. Any version of the glove80 that has a trackball or something?
I have this keyboard basically since the launch, my only issue with it is the sound. Not that it's loud, but it just sounds like cheap hallow plastic when I type on it.
An excellent review! I'm looking to buy either Glove80 or Kinesis Advantage 360. Functionality wise, Glove80 seems to be the winner. But the $400 price tag is hard to swallow for something that is made in China, whereas $460 Advantage 360 is made in the USA. I'm not doubting the quality of Glove80 as China has shown it can make top quality goods. MoErgo did not invest any money in industrial design. Glove80 looks an early prototype with homemade styling. Glove80 has the potential to be a big success if MoErgo passes the manufacturing cost to the consumers and hire an industrial designer.
A few years ago I dreamt up and modelled a design (using software someone else made) of my dream keyboard and this looks a lot like it. Apart from mine being a lot bulkier at the base, as it was intended to be 3D printed and then filled with a lot of wire. If only it wasn't aus$605 😱
I'm so excited about the glove80 - but I'm thinking I might hold out for v3 (hopefully there will be one). It's my favorite form factor of anything out there but for me not having hot swap key sockets on a keyboard that pricey is rough. I'm still newer to mechanical keyboards and I really want to be able to try what's out there and take switches out to lube them when I want to. I'd love to see some 2.4gz wireless as well instead of bluetooth. But what a stunning board. I'm thinking I might try out something a little less expensive first but looking to do something to go easier on my hands/wrists. Do you have a recommendation for a first split ortholinear? I'm a software developer that types in Dvorak (and glove80 is one of the only keyboards that actually cares about other layouts with their keycaps and I love it). Part of me is like maybe I should just build a dactyl but it's been a while since I've soldered.
good question - there is bit of a "mental adjustment" for the first minute or so when using a traditional keyboard, but after that it is pretty smooth sailing
15 year Advantage 1/ErgoDox/Moonlander/Advantage 360 user here. I can type mostly fine on a laptop if need be, but a bit slower - I'd just rather not if given a choice ;)
I got excited thinking this might be an under $200 alternative to other expensive high end options like the Advantage Pro. I thought the low key profile was a great feature. Then I saw the price. Sigh.
It’s worth it imo, but totally understand the reluctance to spend that much on a keyboard. For other options that cost less and have many of the features, check out Beekeeb.com - 3 of my boards are from him and he is fantastic
I'm considering getting a new columnar keyboard, so this was useful -- thanks. I do find it interesting that the well matters so much to you given that you (like me) prefer to use layers rather than the upper two rows. Three rows and a bunch of thumb keys make more sense to me, but I figured that for that reason the wells are of little importance. But perhaps you are talking mostly about the left/right part of the well? So far I'm leaning toward the Dygma Defy; have you tried it?
I have used blue switches in office environments, no one complained about it, not even with a side eye. The key thing to do is not to do the ancient and archaic art of taking notes in a meeting with a keyboard when you can always record it & take notes with a phone. Obviously, if the manger whines then you show your notes & to avoid the whining you just say you are taking notes in your phone note taking app.
huge props for managing to use clicky switches in an office without pissing anyone off! hadn't considered taking notes in meetings with my phone, thats a good idea.
You mention that you can't imagine having keycaps with legends because of your layout. But wouldn't you just put the letters where they go? People use alternate layouts all the time with legends on them. However, I feel you on how it looks.... Definitely looks clean and appealing with no legends
Very interesting. Never tried a split keyboard but it could work very well with a gaming/sim racing seat. I'd be up for fewer keys as well. I use a 65% keyboard currently and being on Linux, function keys aren't really necessary and when they are there is always the Fn key + numbers (as you mention, layers).
good question - I'd love to try a Voyager but haven't been able to try one yet. They look really nice and I'm sure they're a good option for some folks, but I think the dealbreaker for me is going to be only having 2 keys per thumb. For me the bare minimum number of thumb keys is 3, and the 6 on the Glove80 feels luxurious. Also it doesn't have key wells, is only *slightly* cheaper than Glove80, isn't wireless... Yeah :) all that said, I'd still love to try one.
@@codetothemoon just bought the Voyager today, and your statements rly speaks to me. Will see if I won't pivot to glove80. Sadly I've learnt about it to late and haven't had a chance to do more research about it. But your video have made me question my choice 😂
I've had a Voyager for a few weeks, and a Glove80 for two days. My main and favorite (for now) keyboard is the Kinesis Advantage 360 (wired, not Pro), and I've had many ErgoDoxes and a Moonlander over the years. All very good keyboards. The Voyager is very solid, great build quality and configuration software, nice transportation bag and nifty details such as the magnetic feet. For now I very much wish it had at least one more thumb key on each side. I'm positive I could get used to just two thumb keys in time, but for now I think of the Voyager as slightly compromised in that regard, but with increased mobility as a tradeoff. I don't value mobility much, as I have great stationary keyboard options at work, home and gaming PC. Do watch reviews by Ben Vallack, Ben Frain and others for more info on the Voyager, they are huge fans. The Glove80 left an excellent first impression. I slightly prefer the feel of the Kinesis 360 PBT keycaps, and the Kinesis 360 is a lot heavier and thus feels more robust. The Glove80 is closer to an Advantage 1 or 2 in that regard, slightly less solid / a bit "bendier". Note I don't consider that a problem at all, just an observation. The Glove's thumb cluster is different, and already quite enjoyable as well (though after 15 years Kinesis/ErgoDox thumb clusters are second nature to me). Its ZMK firmware has more options than the Kinesis 360's smart set, but that has not limited me yet. I don't care about the wireless aspect, nor about the leds on each key. Either board is very comfortable to type on. For now I sometimes still accidentally reach the top F-key row when I want the number row below it. I wouldn't miss that F-row if it were gone, yet. On most of these boards I'd get by with just one extra layer, though on the voyager and Glove there is a second extra layer to control LEDs and such.
hey i love the video! i think i might get one of these. i might suggest lowering your prompter a little bit i think it's putting your gaze a little too high 🙂
woould like maybe 3 or 4 more frames on the first set of key caps. just a half second more fast is good but i had to pause and use frame by frame to see the first set
Thanks really happy you liked it! I felt like mine was a solid investment. Re: prompter, it's funny I was actually originally planning to use a prompter for this video but wound up doing a more freeform "from the heart" style. My eyes not appearing to look straight at the camera may actually be due to my Strabismus (lazy eye). It's something I can compensate for when I actively think about it, but have found hard to do when recording these 😎
I think it is a great keyboard, but in my opinion the thumb cluster is overrated. I have a Redox keyboard and I use only 3 of the 5 thumb keys. I also would like to have a smaller keyboard with less than 40 keys. I mainly use the 30 main keys plus the 6 thumb keys. The surrounding keys are only convenience. I would definitely eliminate the F key row
sometimes I wish I wasn't such a big fan of thumb clusters so I can use an ultra minimalist board like a Corne or Chocofi as my daily driver. There's definitely something appealing about being able to use such a compact board as a daily driver
All keypresses are balistic movements(aka when you tell your hand to do it there is no going back, you can only tell if you failed or succeeded after you already told your hard to do the keypress) Then given a keyboard where your fingertips are hovering when in homerow. Given these two things keytravel is actually just useless latency. Making a touchscreen be the keys is actually more optimal. That way latency is reduced. Since your hands wouldnt touch the touchscreen when neutral and since everything is balistic anyways the "feedback" a normal key would give doesnt actually do anything other than help you learn where the keys are. After you learn where the keys are the feedback is useless. Similiar thing applies to keylables. Lables help you learn what the keys do. But after you learn what they do the lables are useless. Same thing that applies to lables applies to all keyboard "feedback".
I ended up getting an ergodox keyboard because I needed a 7th column of keys for my layout. but also because of the cheaper price over the glove 80. No way am I going to pay $400 for a keyboard...
It's funny how every videos I watch about ergonomic keyboards will at some point refer to Ben Vallack, often right away, here 1min20 and his channel shows up haha I'll be honest I've fallen way down in this rabbit hole because of (thanks to ?) him, and I continue to explore stuff to this day, it's been years probably.
my workflow is mostly mouse free, so i just have it on my desk still. But if you use the mouse a lot, there is a variant of the chair mount kit that provides space to the side of one half of the board for a mouse
Btw, I would prefer those next gen keyboards to have _more_ keys, not less. I do use layers and even for more layers I would want one layer keys for both hands/thumbs each.-And for some seldom functions I just prefer a unique key in some unergonomic location than an unergonomic combo of layer keys. I have the old Kinesis Advantage and I miss a set of meta keys (or hyper or whatever you call it). Even a normal keyboard has one.
good question - I never actually turned on the RGB when I put the dark caps on, so I don't know for sure but my understanding is that they are not transparent like the white caps. I suspect it would look something like the short video I have of the Keychron at 1:45
with my workflow I'm actually able to mostly avoid the mouse, so it's not a huge deal to just leave it on my desk and reach for it on the rare occasion that I need it. But MoErgo does offer a variant of the chair mount that has extra space to the side of the board where you can place a mouse or trackball, so that is an option as well.
Great video. I think I came across moergo a while ago. Unfortunately they didn’t ship to my country. So decided to go with another ergonomic keyboard. Just wondering, what is the arm that you’re using for the starship captain style?
Can you share the layout you are using and how and why you are using that layout? Sorry if you already talked about it in another video and I missed it. If you don't have time for a whole video on it, if you can share a repo that would be helpful also. I am also a programmer, and have a red pro switch version of the glove 80 on order, and am researching effective layouts for programmers. Thanks for the great video.
sure, here it is! github.com/MoonKraken/glove80-zmk-config/blob/main/config/glove80.keymap been using it for a little while and I'm *mostly* set on it, though i'm still wondering if I should move the shift keys somewhere other than f and j. i also plan to make another layer that does't have home row mods that I can use for playing games
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"80% learning on day 1 while making the move form traditional key layout to orthogonal keys" is a complete overstatement and I would even go on to say its misguiding (sorry). It took me well over a month to get to my normal rhythm with the new layout. The change in the feeling from "Aargh! why I bought this keyboard" to "I can't live without this keyboard" came around the turn of the week 2 to week 3. I have gone through other review videos and they share similar feedback, check other reviews out for yourself before investing. I am a model developer and have been using my Kinesis for more than 2 years now.
Apart from that, nice video :)
Experiences definitely vary. I wouldn't say on the first day, but I'm currently on day 3 with my 46 key dactyl manuform and have reached 80% of my old typing speed. And that's after having to rewire my brain to hit ZXCVB with the correct fingers, after typing them "wrong" for a couple decades. The keywell and column stagger clicked pretty immediately, it's very comfortable. Special characters are a bit of a struggle because I haven't built the muscle memory for my layers yet, but I know where they all are since my layout is completely custom, which has allowed me to make some very easy such as ( ) [ ] { } on my index/middle fingers. Putting an arrow keys layer on my home row has made editing text way faster already.
I would love to try a keyboard like this, it's just that the price is so ridiculously huge that it's a massive investment for something that's quite subjective.
And it's cheaper than it used to be. I inherited an older one from a retiree ( a Maltron, what Kinesis copied ), it was originally about 1K.
totally understandable. fwiw though I haven't seen any anecdotes from anyone who wishes they hadn't purchased one.
It's worth the investment to avoid significant pain from bad posture.
Maybe try building a diy open source keyboard I think I might be doing that
Agreed. They should have a trial period at least.
I got the Glove80 from first batch and I'm perfectly used to it now, it is my first ergo / nextgen keyboard, I love it, I don't like using usual keyboards now.
Howerer, I had a different experience than you learning to use it. To learn Glove80, you have to switch using the pinky to using the thumb for most of the main modifier and main keys: Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Enter, Backspace, Delete. This was hard to learn and unintuitive for days, ~2-3 weeks. The thumbs now have 4-6 frequent keys to manage instead of 1,5.
But it's definitely worth it, I am no longer twisting my wrist all the time to hit Shift+X or Ctrl+X or Ctrl+Shift/Alt+X (it is often usefull even when coding in Vim), this is a MASSIVE game changer in typing comfort, undoubtly worth it !!
Yeah the battery lasts way longer (2-3 month for left half) than what is advertised (3weeks for left half), as long as you don't use the lights I guess. I think the right half lasts 4-6 month when the battery is new and you don't use lights xD
I think my experience was a bit smoother primarily because I had been using home row mods prior to getting the Glove80, and simply continued to use home row mods once I got the Glove80. So the modifier keys were essentially in the same place they already were for me. Despite that the thumb clusters still took some getting used to, since on most split ortho boards they are placed more directly under the palm, whereas on the Glove they require the thumb to stretch such that it's more perpendicular to the other fingers
thanks for the review buddy, much appreciate.
@@gagandeepbhatia9165 after 6 more month of usage, I swapped to using the "homerow mode" (modifier keys on the main row when keys are pressed prolonged time instead of hit), and I'm even more happy with it.
Using all thumb cluster keys wourd hurt my wrist because I took the habit to stick the palms on the parm rest, which led me to overextend the thumbs laterally leading to start of pain. Now I only use one thumb key each side xD Another solution would have been to remove the parm rest (so I move my hand instead of overextending the thumb).
But I think this happened to me because my hands are large enough for me to reach all keys with the palms sticking on the palm rest. I still think that the glove is totally worth it, even if using one thumb key, because of the geometry AND easy/infinite personalization with open source firmware (eg: homerowmode).
I got my first split keyboard thanks to you. It arrived yesterday and while I still suck with it (ortholinear layout is weird, I always find myself overreaching). I got the Keebio iris rev 8, but something tells me this is just the beginning of the rabbit hole.
nice! agree the layout feels ultra alien at first. but you'll adapt to it quicker than you think. and yes, I'm happy to confirm that it is indeed a rabbit hole 😎
Check out the lily 58 pro, I love it
i just dropped into that rabbit hole
I recently got into split keyboards and I'm loving it. Could you share how you got your glove80's attached to the chair?
starship captain style is so comfortable.
Glove 80 seems to tick all the boxes for me; even small things like thumb key placement matters.
agree 💯. The elevated upper keys on the thumb cluster are a real game changer - adds 6 more easily accessible keys that even most split ergo boards don't have
Out of curiosity, what arms did you use for the captain style chair? Curious how you made that work@@codetothemoon
I am a huge keyboard snob - Couldn't live without my Kinesis' (plural) - However you have given me reason to look much closer at the glove80 - Thanks for the thoroughness!
thanks for watching! I think Kinesis would be next in line for me if we lived in a world without Glove80 - fantastic boards. But Glove80 is definitely worth checking out 😎
Hello, fellow keyboard snob here. See my lengthy reply to some other comment with my thoughts about various keyboards, which sadly I can't find right now on mobile. In short: my current favorite keyboard is a non-Pro wired Kinesis 360. The Glove80 I got 2 days ago is already on second rank in my book, with others such as ErgoDox, Moonlander and Voyager further behind. We'll see if/how this changes in time, but the Glove80 definitely has a lot of potential and left a great first impression.
So did you like it more or less?
I bought the Glove80 because of your review, have used it for a week, and have decided it is not for me. It's mainly due to (1) the raised pinky finger rows, which I can't get used to, (2) the keycaps are too slippery (I prefer some textured touch), and, as you have pointed out, (3) too many keys (can do without the top 2 rows).
Also, the 1-year warranty compared to the 2-year+ warranty from other premium keyboard manufacturers (ZSA & Dygma) shows Moergo's lack of confidence in the longevity of the keyboard. Not to mention plastic vs metal.
The good things I find about Glove80 are (1) excellent documentation and (2) the Custom Defined Behaviours in the Layout Editor, which are helpful for power users.
In the meantime, I have switched back to my Corne keyboard and put in an order for a ZSA Voyager.
If anyone is interested in getting a Glove80, you can find my 1 week old Glove80 v2 and the tripod mounting kit on eBay tomorrow.
Too bad I missed this, I'd have given it a shot at a discount.
Great content! I was originally going to get a Moonlander, but got a Piantor instead after seeing your first video. I'm very pleased with it, and falling down a very deep and expensive rabbit hole!
thanks! really happy you like the Piantor - it's a great board. and yes I can confirm it is indeed a rabbit hole 🐰
Give me a glove 36! It's not for everyone to only use 36 keys, but the Choc options for a curved keywell 36 key board is basically custom or nothing.
I could do Glove 48 (eliminate the bottom row of keys too), or even Glove 42 (chop off the outermost columns) but Glove36 means we'd be nerfing the thumb clusters! I've been a happy user of 36 key boards in the past but I think I'd find it hard to go without the 6 key thumb clusters now 😎
So I got the glove80 thanks to your previous video, I already feel comfortable typing with it, I found the documentation on how to install your own layout was a bit lacking and I agree that the top two rows of the keyboard are a little harder to reach so I only use 58 keys
nice, really happy it worked out for you! Maybe we should band together to lobby them for a "mini" version!
Would be nice to see the video with a deep dive inside your ZMK layout: how you manage it, how your HRM is configured, number or layers, how you switch between them and etc
Same! I just bought a Glove80 today and am completely new to customizable keyboards. Would love to see your dev layout. If I need to relearn how to type, might as well start on an appropriate layout :)
@@w00tehpwn I have been using columnar keyboards for a decade, and of all of the odd things I have programmed into them, putting the Shift key under the left thumb has been the most impactful. I will never go back to twisting my hand to press the Shift with my pinky! Second best thing was to put all of the number keys on the home row in another layer. You really only need three rows if you have a bunch of thumb keys; just use one to switch to another layer with the keys you want within easy reach.
You should try the sunset tactile switches, they feel a lot heavier than the linears but they're so nice.
funny you mention them - I actually tried them for the first time immediately after this video was recorded. They are indeed really nice!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:04 🌟 The Glove80 keyboard is highly praised for its ergonomic design and productivity-enhancing features.
01:28 🎮 It's considered a NextGen keyboard due to its departure from traditional typewriter-style layouts.
02:09 ⌨️ The Glove80 features an ortholinear/column stagger design, reducing finger strain and optimizing key placement.
02:38 🔄 The curved key well on the Glove80 reduces finger movement for increased typing efficiency.
03:05 🔊 The Chalk key caps and switches on the Glove80 are shorter and quieter than traditional ones.
03:48 📱 It supports Bluetooth and can connect to up to four devices, making it versatile for various setups.
04:01 ⚙️ The Glove80 offers three key switch options: linear, tactile, and clicky, each with its unique feel and sound.
07:57 🎨 The stock key caps on the Glove80 are made of PAL material, offering a soft yet grippy texture.
09:20 🧩 The Glove80 key caps are uniform, allowing flexible layout customization, including international layouts.
10:56 💪 The build quality of the Glove80 is sturdy and lightweight, dispelling concerns about its construction.
11:38 🔋 The battery life of the Glove80 is impressive, lasting weeks or months, even with RGB lighting disabled.
12:18 📈 The Glove80 supports tenting and tilting for customizable ergonomic preferences.
13:40 ⌨️ The keyboard layout on the Glove80 can be highly customized through either the UI configurator or direct firmware editing.
15:02 🪑 The Glove80 offers a unique chair mount accessory that lets you attach the keyboard to your chair for added convenience.
17:39 🚀 Compared to other NextGen keyboards like the Moonlander, Corn, and Kinesis Advantage 360, the Glove80 offers a distinct combination of features and layout preferences.
19:32 🧩 Keycaps on the Kinesis Advantage 360 aren't uniform and can't be easily interchanged between rows, unlike the Glove80.
20:00 🖐️ The Glove80 is deliberately designed for different hand sizes, accommodating a variety of users.
20:28 📈 Learning to use a NextGen keyboard like the Glove80 has a moderate learning curve, with most users adapting within a day and gradually improving over several weeks.
21:37 🤷 Some users may not use the top two rows of keys on the Glove80 and might prefer a slightly more compact version.
22:05 🔌 The Glove80's switches are soldered onto the PCB, making it challenging to change them, which could be a consideration for those who enjoy experimenting with different switches.
Made with HARPA AI
WOW, definitely checking out this tool. pretty nice!
I am all in ... Glove58 all the way. I would personally want a Glove36 but even 58 would work for me. The size and number of unused keys for my setup is the only reason I haven't bought one.
hah nice glad I'm not the only one!
I had a much longer learning curve to get competent with the glove80, coming from a non-split board. I can type ~100 WPM on a traditional board, and I'm currently averaging 70 WPM on the glove80 after about a month of daily use.
The first few days I felt like I had holes in my brain trying to find the keys. Once I was comfortable with the layout, I still had to break habits that caused me to make errors. Most of my errors occur on keys near the inside of the board, because these keys are the easiest to reach when "crossing over" the middle line. Another habit to break is "rolling" multiple fingers on keys from the same column, which is essentially impossible in an ortholonear layout.
i hear you - it can definitely take awhile to get back to your typing speed on a traditional board. After about 9 months of ortho boards, I still type *slightly* faster on a traditional board (~130wpm on a "good" test), but my ortho speed has almost caught up (~120wpm on a "good" test). I suspect they will converge pretty soon, and those typing tests generally don't include many of the characters that I've made more easily accessible on ortho boards like these +-|=_[]{}()}
@@codetothemoonCan your brain switch between ortho linear and classic layouts, like that? I was always wondering what will happen to my classic layout typing performance, after I learn another layout. Stopping me from making the switch.
I think if this was a glove58 or something like you mentioned I'd be more willing to try this. I've used a corne for the last two years and love it.
nice, corne is a great board. Glad I'm not the only one who would prefer fewer keys!
If there was a glove 60 or around that number I'd buy one now, got so used to having numbers and other things in layers Its a god damn delight
yeah I can relate to this - I generally don't use the top two rows (though the F keys come in handy when I need to get into the BIOS on my windows machine!). If they made one without the top two rows they'd have my money immediately
Anything above 36 keys is heresy! 😅
What are you using to mount the keyboard to your chair?
This is a good video, as a rust developer trying to build a corne, which was working for awhile, it is very rewarding. I have also been looking into the other main keyboards voyager, dygma defy, globe and a unicorn lp for the next keyboard. Having short stubby fingers I have found the corne lp with choc keycaps a little bit crowded.
thanks! Props for building a Corne yourself - I'm not sure I have the patience. If you like chocs but find the Corne LP crowded, you *might* like the Glove80, as I think the key well curvature helps quite a bit with comfort
It took a bit of searching, but the reason why Moergo provides only the white keycaps by default is: the black keycaps does not work well with the RGB (they let through almost no light at all). So the contrast between the black keyboard with white could be a small downside to some, but I kind of like it
do you mean the black keycaps don't let light through at all? because the white ones definitely let light through!
@@codetothemoon Thank you for responding! I meant indeed that the black ones don't let light through properly, let me correct that
Got a Moonlander with Cherry white linear. using Colmak DH setup . Perfect for me , have layers for gaming as left handed, Zbush , Blender , Substance . Love how easy it is to create macros and multi key taps.
Nice! Props on tackling Colemak, i started last year but haven’t seen it through yet. Agree wrt the programmability - definitely something that many folks don’t fully utilize!
@@codetothemoon I use the right half for hotkeys. As left side is my Wacom pad , 3d mouse fits nicely in gap between thumb cluster and palm rest
I just got mine today and its amazing!
nice! 😎
im also a fan of chair mount but you gotta try lapdesk (wide) with recliner in Windows Mixed Reality or SimulaVR with high resolution vr headset (hp reverb g2 is best pixel for your buck).
wow this setup sounds awesome - the idea of computing in a recliner is pretty compelling 😎
try out the Dactyl Manuform. if youre into 3D printing and can navigate a config file for parametric models you can essentially completely customize all aspects of these types of boards from tenting to digit depth and alot more.
I've actually been quite interested in trying a Dactyl, I think I may like it. I'm a little concerned about the height off the desk and how that's going to feel, but I'm guessing that could be mitigated with some good palm rests. Is Dactyl your daily driver?
I have a question, I saw in your other video that you don't really use upper two rows. If so, wouldn't a keyboard like Piantor be a better choice? Do you need curve if you use only three rows anyway? I don't own any keyboards like that right now and want to buy one soon, so I'm really curious about that. I really like the idea of using the layer functionality, wouldn't the top two rows feel kind of wasted?
I use an Ergodox EZ, a good introduction to split boards. At first, I felt like I needed to fill every key. But then I realized that mundane boards include keys I never use so (and I watched Ben Vallack not only not use, but fully remove switches, from his Moonlander).... I started changing my layout to emulate other, smaller boards. My previous layout looked like a six column Corne (aka Crkbd). After using that for a few months, I struggled with some chords (aka keyboard shortcuts) I often use on the number row and symbols from the number row. Plus, I want to have at least three keys in the thumb cluster with rotary encoders. I decided to emulate the Lily58. It has too many thumb keys for me but I get my number row back and I get encoders without sacrificing my three thumb keys (I decided to use one more per half: I now use four). I also took the inner most column of keys (three on the Ergodox) to emulate the rotary encoders. When the time comes, I'll buy a Lily58 kit and build it. But in the meantime, one keyboard can be many others.
If the board fits you, you don't have to use all the keys, or use some of them for things like starting scripts or launching apps, function keys, etc. Things you might only use occasionally. If you build your board or supply your own switches, you only need to buy as many switches/caps as you use. There are 3D print designs for switch caps that cover the connections for the switches you don't put on the board.
Another advantage of the EZ is the maker, ZSA, offers a great graphical interface for writing the firmware. It doesn't do everything QMK is capable of but I'm down to just the basics (as fancy as I get is word caps and momentary hold to switch layers), so I use less than the interface offers anyway. But it offers all tap-dance options, macros, tapping-term adjustments, and more.
my question is: once you've attached the keyboard to your chair like that.... how do you control the mouse?
good question - luckily my workflow minimizes mouse usage (I'm an emacs person) so I just leave it on the desk and reach for it on the somewhat rare occasions that I need it. But there is a variant of the chair mount where the acrylic plastic on the bottom of the board extends outwards to give you space to place a mouse or trackball. So that's an option as well
Great review, very inspiring. I'd like to know, do you still need a mouse with a keyboard like this? In other words, can you navigate and select and click with this keyboard? Having it on your chair made me think it was the case.
Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks! I still use a mouse, but I spend much my time in Emacs where I don't use one. I'm not sure if you can set up the board to control the mouse, great question. Maybe check with MoErgo!
what I really want to know - the kenesis has deeper keys, how much of a difference does this make? my experience is that low-profile keys increase typing errors.. also, many of us like to use our keyboards for gaming - how does the glove80 handle the traditional WASD configuration?
re: lower profile keys - I personally don't feel like they increase typing errors, but they are definitely very taste specific. most folks tend to either love or hate them, though I find myself somewhere in the middle.
re: gaming - I haven't been using my Glove80 for the rare occasions that I play games - I've been using my Keychron Q1 instead. But that's more because I use home row mods on the Glove80 which basically preclude using the WASD keys. I could easily configure another layer to remove the home row mods specifically for gaming, I just haven't gotten around to it.
the WASD keys might be a little awkward because the A key is raised a bit higher than the other 3 keys due to the fact that it's meant for the pinky. That said, I tried emulating gameplay on it for a minute and it's not something that I think would bother me much personally. YMMV - the board definitely isn't built with WASD gaming as a top priority.
I looked for it and I couldn't find any shops or companies that sell split keyboards in my country. Now I'm contemplating custom making my own (3D printing the case and such). I've been wanting one since the moonlander released two years ago.
ohh ooc what country do you hail from? they are somewhat hard to come by even in the states - many of my boards I've ordered from beekeeb.com who I believe is based in Hong Kong. MoErgo doesn't ship to your country?
@@codetothemoon I live in Iran and you can't shop internationally here because we are disconnected from the financial system. I looked among local shops and already imported stuff (You can't simply order for something outside the borders) and couldn't find anything.
why do these keyboards put limit on how many devices you can control, It makes no sense because they are not adding antennas they are just adding a software switch, a list of devices to connect to, nothing more. I have done overemployment, so I have 2 work laptops, 1 personal laptop, 1 gaming desktop, 1 phone, 1 tablet and I wanna be able to control all of them.
good question - I'm not sure if this is the result of a technical limitation or simply the assumption that 5 would be more than most people will need
i've been dreaming of a pre built wireless split ergo keyboard for a while now so I'm glad this showed up in my recommended
nice! yeah for those of us without time (or desire) to build a board ourselves, sometimes it can seem like the options are a bit limited. I'm relieved that Glove80 is one of those options 😎
Finding for software development I am still needing some sort of pointer device. Are you using a mouse or found a better alternative? Does the split keyboard affect how you use the pointer device?
i still use a mouse (Razer DeathAdder to be specific). For the most part this board doesn't change how i use it. I haven't tried one yet, but I'm very curious about keyboards with built in trackballs
@@codetothemoon Not tried the built-ins yet, been wanting to. I've tried a roller-bar mouse. While great ergonomically, it does suffer from a speed/accuracy issues. Basically it sat centrally between the user and the keyboard.
I'm also considering a thumb joystick (like a game controller) if I can find one.
In a future video it would be nice to see you move between mouse and keyboard to see if there is any issue with putting your hand back onto the home keys.
@@codetothemoon Just found out about the cyboard custom keyboards, they have a track ball option.
seeing keyboard attached to a chair is insta like and subscribe!
nice, thank you and great to have you onboard!
Crap - I'm at that stage of the decision making process where I already put it in the shopping cart 🙈 Soo expensive, but I really like the customizations you did to your layout.
Thanks for making this video.
Thanks for watching - yeah it's definitely not the most inexpensive board, but well worth it imo
Helpful video. But what brand of shotgun mic is that? It sounds great.
thank you! it is a sennheiser 416!
I have glove 80 and Zsa voyager and I’m not sure which one I love moore. They are both super comfy to type on but the voyager has significantly less keys and is much more portable
ahh nice I've been excited to hear from someone who has tried both! on the voyager do you find yourself missing the extra thumb keys or keywells?
@@codetothemoon I just received the voyager today so I’m not sure how I am going to be impacted by the overall lack of keys. I have pretty small hands which seems a better fit on the voyager. I can reach all parts of the keyboard without a problem which is not the case for the glove 80. However, there is no doubt the curved key well, even with my small hands is just comfortable to type on. But I don’t find the glove 80 all that portable. I wfh and travel quite a bit and needed a portable solution for when I am on the road or working out of town. I will post more after I’ve had more time with the voyager. Thank you for a great video!!
Hi, I’m debating between the two! Any thoughts between the two after using them now?
@@shabaz1212see my lengthy reply to some other comment about that, which sadly I can't find right now on mobile. In short: Depends on your goals. For my use case I'd already prefer my brand new Glove80, but Voyager is more portable. My favorite for now is Kinesis 360 wired non-Pro, but I only just got Glove80 2 days ago, so take this with a grain of salt
Just bought the glove80 in a black friday clearance sale. Looking forward to playing with it, especially since I am a programmer. My wrist and elbow pain is awful so i am hoping this thing helps.
How do you feel now?
@@loicquivron3872 it's fantastic. Still a bit slow when using my programming layers but it's just a matter of practice at this point.
@@loicquivron3872 I love this keyboard. After about a week, I was able to get back up to 120 words per minute and now I'm back up to my original 150 words per minute. The only thing that I'm still a little bit rusty on is working with my programming layer.
Thanks for the video :)
Coincidentally I've ordered this keyboard just a few days ago!
nice! let us know how you like it!
@@codetothemoon I've been using it for some time now. And I must say I'm beyond happy after like almost a month of usage. In the beginning it was a bit hard to adjust (I've been using some ordinary membrane dell keyboard before).
But after forcing myself to use it everyday regardless, I've noticed getting more and more comfortable day by day.
As of now I still rarely find myself missing some key, but it is not as frequent as before.
As to comfort of usage, I absolutely love it.
Best keyboard I've ever had.
The comfort of having every key so close, and not needing to move your hand at all is amazing. I'm using the default glove layout btw.
I love the fact that arrow keys are so close, so I can quickly run previous command in a terminal, or jump to another pane in tmux.
The price was a bit high, but as a programmer working 5 days a week, and also studying CS on uni (so practically I'm coding everyday 7 days a week) it is a justified investment.
Nice and detailed review. I have a question for the people that use these keyboards on a daily basis: how easy is to switch back to normal ones, if the need occurs. I ended up doing a lot of work, on the go e.g. coffee shops, following my kids extracurricular activities. Buying such an expensive keyboard is an investment of money and time (being accustomed to). It would be a waste if working between layouts, slows me down. What happens if you can not take your next gen keyboard with you some times?? Thanks.
thanks! I wouldn't say it's completely effortless to switch back to a "traditional" board, but it is not that hard either. there is slight mental barrier to get over in the first 5-10 minutes or so of use, but after that it feels "familiar" again.
omg i have the same chair. Can you take it on and off in ease? What if you also use a grpahics tablet.
You can take the keyboard on and off pretty easily, but taking off the arms that hold the keyboard requires a bit more work. I think the graphics tablet would have to continue to live on the desk - unless it is really small. You might be able to fit it on the version of the chair mount that has room for the mouse. Definitely reach out to MoErgo, they might have a solution around this!
How did you attach it to the chair. Can you make a video about that?
Thanks for your interest! long story short there are arms that attach to the chair using a clamp, and on the other side they have a ball head similar to what you'd have on a camera tripod. Then there is an acrylic piece of plastic you can mount to the bottom of the keyboard, which attaches to the ball head. Definitely reach out to MoErgo for more details - I'm sure they'll be happy to give you a run through!
@@codetothemoon Thank you for your reply. Do you think it worth to attach it to the herman miller aeron chair for long term as you tried it, or it is more comfortable to have it on the table
Thanks for the review, I watched your other video and you said that you bought keychron q1. How would you compare it to glove80?
I am torn on my next keyboard purchase. I have been debating between keychron q1 and glove80. I never owned a spilt keyboard before. So what would you recommend? 😅
two very very different boards. If you don't want to invest the time into adapting to ortholinear and want to stick with a more traditional board, Q1 is a great option. But assuming you're willing to invest the time into learning (imo you'll get an outsized return on the investment), I think the Glove80 is better in pretty much every way.
@@codetothemoon I think I am sold to get the glove80 as I don't mind learning something new, :) thanks for your help!
ready to go to the moon with the keyboard, love it
🚀🌕
Spot on with the first con: it has 2 more rows than it needs. Layers are better for ergo, would love a smaller version.
Where is the Chair Mount Arm/Tripod? Looks like the site only sells the plate/quick attachment but not the arm itself.
Hey, thanks for the video, was quite useful! Seeing the arm chair mount I got really excited as about 15 years ago I came up with a similar design (I am sure I am not the only one), but this is the first time I am seeing it someone actually implemented that! I want to try that! A small note, when you are using the arm rest, this should be in level of your forearm - in the video you see some angles that would result in your wrist bending back, causing some tension. When it is leveled, the hand will be exactly in a position like on a piano - that is for the maximum and most efficient grip on keys.
Thanks again man, will check Glove 80 straight away!
Thanks so much for the video! Do you have links to the mini tripods and also to the chair mount-pod?
this is exactly what i need! so glad i found this video
I have two of them and agree that it is the best format for a full size keyboard. The next generation should include the option to include MX style switches because choc switches are fairly unsatisfying and lack character. The switch options are probably my biggest criticism of the glove. If you're looking for a minimalist board the best is the Corne.
For the past couple months I've been using an Iris, and the process of building a custom keyboard was fun, and I love the split, but having to use a 2nd layer I find too annoying,.I keep mixing up layer 2 keys. And I heard the Primeagen argue that he considers a concave to be even more important than a split in a keyboard so I want to try that. And the more keys should keep me on a single layer. I am leaning towards the glove over the Kenisis because of the function keys, also the white option will fir the esthetic of my desk better.
380€, man I hope its good
It's well worth it - imo of course. If you took mine away I wouldn't hesitate to pay multiples of the original price to get it back.
If you wanted to get close to key wells in a Korn or Moon Lander, you can use MT3 profile key caps.
The number of keys could be reduced even further, the most ideal would probably be just 10 keys, so that the fingers don't have to lift and fumble at all. And that such a thing is not possible? Here are some principles and tricks, some of which I use in my own program (Key³):
long press (my method since 1996, Sam Coupé computer, my OS Explosion)
double press (my method since 1996, Sam Coupe computer, my OS Explosion)
shallow press (analogue magnetic keyboards)
deep press (analog magnetic keyboards)
combination of the previous
extra shift methods (sync, async, ... my idea from 2013)
extended shift modes (my idea from 2024 based on order and length, I won't specify)
touch layer (my idea from 2022)
I believe this keyboard is very comfortable, but I wouldn't tolerate it, I like straight lines, last year I stood in front of a bent monitor for a while and really had to exert myself a lot not to straighten it :)
Great video!
You might want to adjust/increase the camera focus depth (or if it's a software effect) when showing things closer to the camera. In this video they mostly become blurred out and it's hard to make out any detail.
thank you, and this is great feedback! I deliberately used a wide aperture to get the background to be a little more blurry, but only after recording did I notice the consequence of making the keyboard blurry when I hold it out in front of me!
Do you care to share your key mapping or ZMK? Just from the couple examples you should, it makes sense.
i do, here it is! github.com/MoonKraken/glove80-zmk-config
Great video. Which tripod did you use to setup de chair mount to your Aeron?
Too funny. As soon as they offer a Glove58, I'm in.
woo, guess it's not just me! that said, the top two rows haven't gotten in the way yet 😎
I just got the zsa voyager and love finally being able to mount it to my chair, kinda disappointing they decided to not put bluetooth in it.
nice! didn't realize you could mount the voyager to your chair! But yeah not having bluetooth might make that setup a bit tough...
Before you said it, I was thinking, this is great, I just probably won't even touch the top row. I would buy a Glove "50".
sweet, it's starting to sound like I'm not the only one!
Can I just say that casually dropping the keycaps from a Go bowl was a nice touch? :D
thanks, I didn't realize these would be recognized as Go bowls! but they are!
Great video!!! I was about to take the Glove80 but I finally purchased the Voyager. I’m still waiting for it. Do you know it? Any feedback on it? Thanks again
Thank you! I’d love to try a Voyager but I haven’t been able to get ahold of one. Though I suspect the 2 keys per thumb may be too few for my tastes
@@codetothemoon yes that’s probably its only weak point!!! Thanks for your reply!!
@@codetothemoon this is what they say about it but I don’t use often my thumbs so I hope it’s gonna fit well!!
What about the mouse... You don't use it? And if not how you scroll the cursor?
I use the mouse, I just stick to the keyboard as much as possible. In vim / emacs there are many ways to scroll without the mouse, and you can use a plugin like Vimium to get similar behavior in the web browser
The lower actuation force also provides a higher speed of typing from white i found out.
potentially, i think the optimal actuation force may depend on the person! not sure though
The bluetooth is not great. I had to reset bluetooth everytime and it would still take a longtime to connect
interesting - I haven't personally had any issues with the bluetooth, as long as I turn on the left half first. Are you turning on the left unit prior to turning on the right unit? I have had the initial connection take a long time when I accidentally turn on the right half first - not exactly sure why this is
I agree with the 58-key version. I built a Ferris Sweep after watching the video that you linked in this video. I then found the ZSA Voyager, bought that and have been using it ever since. I really hope mo ergo makes a smaller, portable version.
As for alternate switches, I changed my Kailh browns with the Kailh Sunset switches.
How have you been enjoying the voyager? I am currently between the Voyager and the Glove80 and I can't decide. I am a software eng coming from traditional mechanical keyboards so this will be my first split.
Thoughts on the Dygma Defy?
looks like a solid board, would love to try one at some point. But no key wells might be a deal breaker for me :/
@@codetothemoon just bought one. Lets see :)
I went straight from typing on my custom Keychron Q1 Pro to Miryoku QMK for my choc Ferris Sweep with Colmak-DHm.
I figured, if I'm going to learn split I might as well jump in the deep end and not confuse my muscle memory when I switch to qwerty on a laptop. Now I want more keys. 34 is just a little restrictive. Even though I do enjoy home row mods.
thank you for the great review, you convinced me. After seeing your video, I bought mine, too. I just got it today. Can you share more details of your layout? I am a programmer too. I like where you put your brackets, but I am wondering where you left the modifiers
I don’t think this is made very clear, but the main difference between linear and tactile is that you can FEEL the activation point (that is when the key generates an input) on tactile switches, where with linear switches there is no bump. The only time you would actually hear a sound on linear switches is when you bottom out the key, which you don’t have to do to make them function. So if you’re always bottoming out keys, on the same board you wouldn’t actually hear any difference whatsoever between linear and tactile switches. Clicky switches go one step further, the activation point gives an audible and a tactile feedback. So sounds like you should be maining linear.
Love that it has function keys, but jeepers at the price for a keyboard.
yeah the price is a common concern, understandably. Might be worth it if it's an endgame board for you like it is for me
hi just got my board today. Was googling different key-layouts and I found this excellent video . Would you mind sharing your key-layouts? I am not intending to use as is but to use an example of what might be useful for me. I use a lot of shortcuts like ctrl+shift+f12 etc and in default layout it would require me to move my hands completely from the home row , which defeats the purpose of the keyboard. I would be interested to see how you have solved this problem. Thank you
sure! here's my fork of the glove80 zmk repository: github.com/MoonKraken/glove80-zmk-config. Function keys aren't really one of the things I'm optimizing for in my layout, but with mine you'd first hold the S and F keys with the left hand, then press the rightmost thumb key with your right hand, and finally press the key immediately up and to the left of where your left pinky sits on the home row. if I were doing such a thing often I'd probably adjust my layout to make it slightly easier.
@@codetothemoon How are S and F not typing S and F? Are you talking about typing ctrl+shift+f12? Sounds like S and/or F type S and F on key release only if not combined with other keys?!? (Sounds like a big disadvantage...)
I've tried a few (2) alternative layout keyboards over the past 10 years, and they never stuck. I can't see $400 for something that I'm most likely not going to be able to make my every day driver.
I definitely agree - if you're spending $400 you'd definitely want the board to be your daily driver, or at least have the potential to become one!
I like the idea of mounting a keyboard to my chair, but I wonder how you deal with the mouse in that case? When you're sitting back in your chair, it seems like you'd need to lean forward to reach the desk and use the mouse when you need to. Any version of the glove80 that has a trackball or something?
I have this keyboard basically since the launch, my only issue with it is the sound. Not that it's loud, but it just sounds like cheap hallow plastic when I type on it.
An excellent review! I'm looking to buy either Glove80 or Kinesis Advantage 360. Functionality wise, Glove80 seems to be the winner. But the $400 price tag is hard to swallow for something that is made in China, whereas $460 Advantage 360 is made in the USA. I'm not doubting the quality of Glove80 as China has shown it can make top quality goods. MoErgo did not invest any money in industrial design. Glove80 looks an early prototype with homemade styling. Glove80 has the potential to be a big success if MoErgo passes the manufacturing cost to the consumers and hire an industrial designer.
A few years ago I dreamt up and modelled a design (using software someone else made) of my dream keyboard and this looks a lot like it. Apart from mine being a lot bulkier at the base, as it was intended to be 3D printed and then filled with a lot of wire. If only it wasn't aus$605 😱
nice! you must have a good taste. And yeah the price is a little tough to stomach... worth it imo though
I'm so excited about the glove80 - but I'm thinking I might hold out for v3 (hopefully there will be one). It's my favorite form factor of anything out there but for me not having hot swap key sockets on a keyboard that pricey is rough. I'm still newer to mechanical keyboards and I really want to be able to try what's out there and take switches out to lube them when I want to. I'd love to see some 2.4gz wireless as well instead of bluetooth. But what a stunning board.
I'm thinking I might try out something a little less expensive first but looking to do something to go easier on my hands/wrists. Do you have a recommendation for a first split ortholinear? I'm a software developer that types in Dvorak (and glove80 is one of the only keyboards that actually cares about other layouts with their keycaps and I love it). Part of me is like maybe I should just build a dactyl but it's been a while since I've soldered.
After you get used to this keyboard, how easily can you go back to regular keyboards when you need to?
good question - there is bit of a "mental adjustment" for the first minute or so when using a traditional keyboard, but after that it is pretty smooth sailing
15 year Advantage 1/ErgoDox/Moonlander/Advantage 360 user here. I can type mostly fine on a laptop if need be, but a bit slower - I'd just rather not if given a choice ;)
I got excited thinking this might be an under $200 alternative to other expensive high end options like the Advantage Pro. I thought the low key profile was a great feature.
Then I saw the price. Sigh.
It’s worth it imo, but totally understand the reluctance to spend that much on a keyboard. For other options that cost less and have many of the features, check out Beekeeb.com - 3 of my boards are from him and he is fantastic
I'm considering getting a new columnar keyboard, so this was useful -- thanks. I do find it interesting that the well matters so much to you given that you (like me) prefer to use layers rather than the upper two rows. Three rows and a bunch of thumb keys make more sense to me, but I figured that for that reason the wells are of little importance. But perhaps you are talking mostly about the left/right part of the well? So far I'm leaning toward the Dygma Defy; have you tried it?
I have used blue switches in office environments, no one complained about it, not even with a side eye. The key thing to do is not to do the ancient and archaic art of taking notes in a meeting with a keyboard when you can always record it & take notes with a phone. Obviously, if the manger whines then you show your notes & to avoid the whining you just say you are taking notes in your phone note taking app.
huge props for managing to use clicky switches in an office without pissing anyone off! hadn't considered taking notes in meetings with my phone, thats a good idea.
You mention that you can't imagine having keycaps with legends because of your layout. But wouldn't you just put the letters where they go? People use alternate layouts all the time with legends on them. However, I feel you on how it looks.... Definitely looks clean and appealing with no legends
Very interesting. Never tried a split keyboard but it could work very well with a gaming/sim racing seat. I'd be up for fewer keys as well. I use a 65% keyboard currently and being on Linux, function keys aren't really necessary and when they are there is always the Fn key + numbers (as you mention, layers).
Have you any idea on how does it compare to the ZSA Voyager that recently came out? Would be cool to see this kind of comparison
good question - I'd love to try a Voyager but haven't been able to try one yet. They look really nice and I'm sure they're a good option for some folks, but I think the dealbreaker for me is going to be only having 2 keys per thumb. For me the bare minimum number of thumb keys is 3, and the 6 on the Glove80 feels luxurious. Also it doesn't have key wells, is only *slightly* cheaper than Glove80, isn't wireless... Yeah :) all that said, I'd still love to try one.
@@codetothemoon just bought the Voyager today, and your statements rly speaks to me. Will see if I won't pivot to glove80. Sadly I've learnt about it to late and haven't had a chance to do more research about it. But your video have made me question my choice 😂
I've had a Voyager for a few weeks, and a Glove80 for two days. My main and favorite (for now) keyboard is the Kinesis Advantage 360 (wired, not Pro), and I've had many ErgoDoxes and a Moonlander over the years. All very good keyboards.
The Voyager is very solid, great build quality and configuration software, nice transportation bag and nifty details such as the magnetic feet. For now I very much wish it had at least one more thumb key on each side. I'm positive I could get used to just two thumb keys in time, but for now I think of the Voyager as slightly compromised in that regard, but with increased mobility as a tradeoff. I don't value mobility much, as I have great stationary keyboard options at work, home and gaming PC. Do watch reviews by Ben Vallack, Ben Frain and others for more info on the Voyager, they are huge fans.
The Glove80 left an excellent first impression. I slightly prefer the feel of the Kinesis 360 PBT keycaps, and the Kinesis 360 is a lot heavier and thus feels more robust. The Glove80 is closer to an Advantage 1 or 2 in that regard, slightly less solid / a bit "bendier". Note I don't consider that a problem at all, just an observation. The Glove's thumb cluster is different, and already quite enjoyable as well (though after 15 years Kinesis/ErgoDox thumb clusters are second nature to me). Its ZMK firmware has more options than the Kinesis 360's smart set, but that has not limited me yet. I don't care about the wireless aspect, nor about the leds on each key. Either board is very comfortable to type on. For now I sometimes still accidentally reach the top F-key row when I want the number row below it. I wouldn't miss that F-row if it were gone, yet.
On most of these boards I'd get by with just one extra layer, though on the voyager and Glove there is a second extra layer to control LEDs and such.
hey i love the video! i think i might get one of these. i might suggest lowering your prompter a little bit i think it's putting your gaze a little too high 🙂
woould like maybe 3 or 4 more frames on the first set of key caps. just a half second more fast is good but i had to pause and use frame by frame to see the first set
Thanks really happy you liked it! I felt like mine was a solid investment. Re: prompter, it's funny I was actually originally planning to use a prompter for this video but wound up doing a more freeform "from the heart" style. My eyes not appearing to look straight at the camera may actually be due to my Strabismus (lazy eye). It's something I can compensate for when I actively think about it, but have found hard to do when recording these 😎
ahh thanks for the feedback!
Nice video! but how about the Dygma Defy?
I actually already did a video on it some time after this one! Great board too.
I think it is a great keyboard, but in my opinion the thumb cluster is overrated. I have a Redox keyboard and I use only 3 of the 5 thumb keys. I also would like to have a smaller keyboard with less than 40 keys. I mainly use the 30 main keys plus the 6 thumb keys. The surrounding keys are only convenience. I would definitely eliminate the F key row
sometimes I wish I wasn't such a big fan of thumb clusters so I can use an ultra minimalist board like a Corne or Chocofi as my daily driver. There's definitely something appealing about being able to use such a compact board as a daily driver
Have you tried the ZSA voyager?
nope! would love to if I can get my hands on one.
@@codetothemoon would 100% appreciate a review!
With the layering, and the visible key labeling doesnt change, is it hard to remember the key peogramming when using different layers?
All keypresses are balistic movements(aka when you tell your hand to do it there is no going back, you can only tell if you failed or succeeded after you already told your hard to do the keypress)
Then given a keyboard where your fingertips are hovering when in homerow.
Given these two things keytravel is actually just useless latency.
Making a touchscreen be the keys is actually more optimal.
That way latency is reduced. Since your hands wouldnt touch the touchscreen when neutral and since everything is balistic anyways the "feedback" a normal key would give doesnt actually do anything other than help you learn where the keys are.
After you learn where the keys are the feedback is useless.
Similiar thing applies to keylables.
Lables help you learn what the keys do.
But after you learn what they do the lables are useless.
Same thing that applies to lables applies to all keyboard "feedback".
I ended up getting an ergodox keyboard because I needed a 7th column of keys for my layout. but also because of the cheaper price over the glove 80. No way am I going to pay $400 for a keyboard...
I haven't tried one but Ergodox looks great! Seems like the source of much of the inspiration for the Kinesis layouts
It's funny how every videos I watch about ergonomic keyboards will at some point refer to Ben Vallack, often right away, here 1min20 and his channel shows up haha
I'll be honest I've fallen way down in this rabbit hole because of (thanks to ?) him, and I continue to explore stuff to this day, it's been years probably.
Where do you place your mouse when typing at your "Captain's Chair"?
my workflow is mostly mouse free, so i just have it on my desk still. But if you use the mouse a lot, there is a variant of the chair mount kit that provides space to the side of one half of the board for a mouse
Btw, I would prefer those next gen keyboards to have _more_ keys, not less. I do use layers and even for more layers I would want one layer keys for both hands/thumbs each.-And for some seldom functions I just prefer a unique key in some unergonomic location than an unergonomic combo of layer keys.
I have the old Kinesis Advantage and I miss a set of meta keys (or hyper or whatever you call it). Even a normal keyboard has one.
How are the RGB lights with the dark keycaps? Is the difference between the light and dark one significant?
The dark keycaps from MoErgo aren’t shine through, so you won’t see much of the RGB (only a tiny bit from under the keycaps) with them
good question - I never actually turned on the RGB when I put the dark caps on, so I don't know for sure but my understanding is that they are not transparent like the white caps. I suspect it would look something like the short video I have of the Keychron at 1:45
Zmk does not support mouse keys, how do you use your mouse when glove 80 is mounted on your chair ?
There is a non-official branch of ZMK with mouse key support. There is also a wider version of the tripod plate that allows for trackball positioning
with my workflow I'm actually able to mostly avoid the mouse, so it's not a huge deal to just leave it on my desk and reach for it on the rare occasion that I need it. But MoErgo does offer a variant of the chair mount that has extra space to the side of the board where you can place a mouse or trackball, so that is an option as well.
Great video. I think I came across moergo a while ago. Unfortunately they didn’t ship to my country. So decided to go with another ergonomic keyboard.
Just wondering, what is the arm that you’re using for the starship captain style?
Can you share how do you use your mouse with this keyboard? Thank you
Can you share the layout you are using and how and why you are using that layout? Sorry if you already talked about it in another video and I missed it. If you don't have time for a whole video on it, if you can share a repo that would be helpful also. I am also a programmer, and have a red pro switch version of the glove 80 on order, and am researching effective layouts for programmers. Thanks for the great video.
sure, here it is! github.com/MoonKraken/glove80-zmk-config/blob/main/config/glove80.keymap
been using it for a little while and I'm *mostly* set on it, though i'm still wondering if I should move the shift keys somewhere other than f and j. i also plan to make another layer that does't have home row mods that I can use for playing games