Connect your Amiga to a modern display. OSSC, Framemeister, Cheap SCART - Compared and Reviewed !
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2017
- How do you connect your Amiga up to a modern display? How much do they cost? Where can i purchase one? Check out this video ! I look at and compare 3 modern upscalers that support the Amiga !
Purchase Links
Cheap Upscaler - www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07...
OSSC - www.videogameperfection.com/p...
XRGB Framemeister - solarisjapan.com/products/xrg...
Thanks to!
The Guru Meditation - / @thegurumeditation
Ms Mad Lemon - / @msmadlemon
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The comparison shot at 8:08 shows a far better result via the OSSC.
The Framemeister is clearly smearing the pixel detail and colours (see the grass, for example).
How does the output of the Flicker Fixer (DVI) on the Amiga compare?
I would bet that it gives a "truer" representation of the Amiga graphics output, like the OSSC is showing here.
I admit that the ADC / DACs on neither the Framemeister nor OSSC are perfect either though.
Were both captures direct from the analog or digital output from both scalers? It's important info that wasn't shown in the vid.
all tests were used with RGB scart and HDMI out into a Micomsoft SC-512 capture card
I completely agree - OSSC looks correct. The leaves in the trees look blurred almost beyond recognition in the Framemeister.
I agree. The OSSC clearly shows the superior picture while the Framemeister is slightly blurring/filtering the picture. Also, the vertical bands: The OSSC and cheap upscaler show them and I am willing to bet a direct RGB capture from the A1200 to the Micomsoft capture card would also exhibit these vertical bars. I know my A1200 and A600 both have them. Even though I disagree with the conclusion that the Framemeister has the superior picture, I did enjoy the video. Great job buddy!
ElectronAsh, how's that Dreamcast HDMI adaptor coming on ;)
Thanks for the effort put into the side by side comparisons. Subscribed.
Cracking review thanks. Iv'e been trying to get my Amiga 500 to work with my TV lots of ways Iv'e seen on here but yours is by far one of the easiest to follow thanks
I needed a solution to test an Amiga 500+ that I want to use with a Vampire 500. I purchased the same Cheap SCART device in the video and also the RGB SCART cable from AmigaKit. It's a very simple and easy to use solution. Thank you for doing this video! For $40 you really can't go wrong with this device.
Thanks for you review on this. I been thinking of getting one of these devices and this really helps. they all seem to have ups and downs.
Thank you MVG! Excellent video. Saved hours of research. My questions have been answered!
you are welcome Michael! thanks for watching and supporting as always !
I have an OSSC and couldn't be happier with it.
The combination of it's price, and the fact that it doesn't add any input lag make it the clear winner IMO.
Also, keep in mind that the OSSC is not really an upscaler, it's a "line doubler" and the out of the box setting of "line 2x" is just a starting point to ensure compatibility with a wide range of tv's and monitors. Many displays are compatible with "line 3x, 4x, and 5x." Image quality just keeps getting better the higher the line setting
The cheap upscaler has the very common issue where the changed parts of the screen shift down 1 pixel for a second or so. You see it in a lot of videos on TH-cam. For Workbench it's OK, but in scrolling games it makes the image shimmer vertically. The OSSC looks surprisingly good, especially for its price. I'm sure it will improve with firmware upgrades.
Man, I love your videos so high quality and full of knowlege. on YT are SOOOO many people that don't know what thes talking or only minimum a half ;D
This video is incredibly useful! Thanks very much.
The OSSC looks amazing! I'd like to see how it looks on Amiga games with scanlines enabled.
For me are a great solution to connect our AMIGAs to modern screens without having to open them. Thx for this great video!
Thanks so much for the shoutout! :o)
I've actually been wondering about the OSSC and this is the first i've seen it in action. The framemeister, seems good, though paying that hefty price you would want it to be close to perfect. I'm tempted by the OSSC to be honest.
Great comparison video! Just what I needed to see, thanks! :o)
you are welcome! thank you :)
I think an OSSC is fine for Amiga, but the XRGB framemeister can handle composite / svideo as well. So better for C64 users like me!
The framemeister is really nice if you don't want to worry about compatibility. The OSSC is my favorite option and I have them all but you may need to purchase a TV or PC monitor that it is compatible with.
The delay of 1 fps (20ms) is going to be a problem playing games.
This is mostly not true but can be true in certain very demanding games. The problem exists when paired with a television which also adds a bunch of lag. If you have a very low lag display and pair it with the FM then you will not have many issues for the most part. If a total of 1frame of lag or 16.67ms of lag is not usually going to be any problem. the FM adds about 1.5frames of lag or 25.005ms... This isn't much of an issue except that most displays add a lot more than that. I use a 1080p BENQ gaming monitor which "claims" to be lag free ;).. gaming on it with my FM is a good experience except in some of the most demanding games, and I suggest playing those on a CRT or the OSSC for sure.
I know this is an old video but I don't think your conclusions are particularly accurate. The OSSC picture quality is clearly better even in your examples, the Framemeister's output is smeared in comparison (though I suspect that is not representative of the Framemeister when configured properly). The OSSC's colours are also completely accurate to the original source, unlike the Framemeister. Also your vertical banding is almost certainly due to a problem with your source (interference either inside your amiga or in your RGB SCART cable), it is only visible on the OSSC because the OSSC output is most true to the source.
I know you go on to recommend the OSSC, but the impression I got was that the main reason was cost. I would argue that even if the costs were the same, the OSSC would beat the Framemeister in many situations.
The gonbes 8220 is a good cheap option for £25. The indivision provides a great update to ecs and is pretty cheap for what it is too. The indivision and gonbes 8220 are also compatible with new a600p laptop
I'm using this to connect to an old VGA monitor. It's not a flicker-fixer, but looks great straight out of the box!
Very good vidéo. Thanks Denis Castellan for the french trad.
I purchased a 15khz monitor which I just love ( after watching your video) is there any advantage to having a scan doubler in your opinion. Thanks as always for your great video.
By any chance, could you test an Atari ST and the OSSC, through a capture card in low/med/hi res? And state which capture card you've used?
I just have an indivision ECS installed in my 500. Gives vga output looks great on my tv
I have the cheap upscaler and it's worst from a cheap lcd tv with an internal upscaler to use with an active scart.
Nevertheless I bought it for 20e and it's OK.
OSSC is looking great though.
I use them from time to time for workbench use only as I play on crt tvs always.
Nice video as always my friend.
nothing beats a CRT !
CRT master race!
Enjoyed the video mate , plus always good to see some Shadow of the Beast,
About time for another room tour isn't it bud ...must of been couple years since the last one ?
Was the cable used C-Sync or composite video for sync? If it was composite video for sync, that would probably explain the vertical banding(refereed to as jailbars) artifacting.
For games I use a SCART RGB input on my 1080p Plasma TV and it looks as good as any CRT ever did and there is zero lag so I never bothered with an upscaler. However for Workbench in 1280x512 I would have to use an upscaler or VGA adaptor. I forgot to mention the full overscan of the NTSC Amigas is 432 lines down I think so if the entire video display possible is transferred to 4k resolution the native resolution of TV and Amiga are a match.
I have bad ground like-ish noise with my ossc and Amiga 500. Tried different scart adapters , Amigas and Amiga power supplies with Not much change.
Hi, thanks for your review, great work !!! I finaly buy the HD converter (the money value one, HDMI/Scart) i will try for my Amiga500, the second reason that i buy it to transfert hi8 camcorder tape to DVD... but my aquisition laptop card is an Dazzle like... it was usb to laptop and RCA to camcorder (i put the upscaler in, between the laptop and camcorder) and i have from laptop usb rca rca hdmi hdmi scart scart(rca connector) rca rca
very good review, thanks!
but i preferred both the cheapest as well as the mid-range priced options to the most expensive one!
well, that's me ... ;-)
the Framemeister is still a good extra option to have anyway as it can serve other purposes as well ...
Thanks for information
I currently connect my Amiga CD32 upto my TV via an S-Video connector. Is the Koryuu Transcoder available at videogameperfection the essentially the same device as the OSSC? Just with an S-Video input. Would adding a S-Video to scart adaptor to my S-Video connector make it optimally work with OSSC?
Great video MVG and thanks for the shout out! I have been wanting to get an OSSC since I learned about it. Sounds like I should get on the list ASAP. How about aspect ratio? One thing I really don't like with the cheap upscaler is that it stretches the Amiga signal to 16:9 in 720p and 1080p modes. Does the OSCC and Frame meister do this as well or do they preserve the original? For my TH-cam videos and Twitch streams I correct the aspect ratio through software. That also enhances the perceived image quality because you are taking the same amount of pixels and putting them in a smaller space. And of course nothing is stretched and distorted. Thanks for a great video! --AmigaBill
hi Bill - the OSSC handles aspect ratio correctly. I've noticed the 16:9 issue also with the cheap scaler.
Great! Thanks MVG!
Nice one man, I need to revive my 500!
Another useful tip according to my friend: Consider that you will still get stuttering if your display doesn't do proper 50hz. A lot of TV displays today accept 50hz, but then it is displayed at 60hz anyway.
I love the Framemeister dearly, but I've noticed some visual noise on some consoles.
It's pretty minor, but that's my only gripe with it.
OSSC seems to be way sharper. framemeister only seems smoother because it's blurring. At the end of the day, which allows me to see the cleanest pixels. If I need blurring, I'll slam a few beers.
Great video, since I'm in the U.S. I'm looking for a scan converter for my A1000 currently hooked up via composite to a Commodore 1702 . I'm wanting to move all my Amigas in one place and run them off LCDs.
The 1702 is actually a really good composite monitor. Unfortunately the tube just doesn't have the resolution to display hires images.
I recently bought an Indivision ECS V2, and the display output is fantastic! Unfortunately, as MVG stated, its an internal device, also you must have OS2.0+ installed to run the configuration software and get the NTSC modes displaying properly, it defaults to a PAL style output (i.e. big black bar at bottom) when displaying an NTSC signal as shipped.
Good video, thanks.
I just would have liked to seen a GBS8200 type board in there for comparison. These are the cheapest option and have reasonable output quality considering.
The GBS82X0 cards output video similarly to the el cheapo unit reviewed here. It's annoying in any scrolling game, really only suitable for static images or low fps games. The act of moving your cursor around in Workbench causes nearby pixels to shift position.
In unrelated news, I've also played with the GBS8100 for a MAME cab (which is a downscaler, converting 31khz to 15khz). I hooked up video output from the PC to a flat panel AND through the GBS8100 to an ancient multiscan CRT that could handle 15khz. It's spectacularly awful for moving images, it frequently "skips" 3-4 frames (i.e. repeating the same frame multiple times). I ended up going back to the Arcadevga (even though the driver kind of sucks and doesn't really support anything other than MAME).
Both units clearly fall in the "you get what you pay for" category of things.
I'm waiting for the ossc to add dithering in a future firmware update. That to me should make this the end-all option as far as these devices go.
Also update your experiment with a low lag hdtv and test with 480p / line-double modes. TV's have this filtering that catches in (looks nicer on pc label) that makes the game look far more crt like then any pc panel ever would as they always lack any scaled processing. (which in this day and age I think is nothing short of pathetic on the manufacturer's end)
Btw, hdtv's are now at 1 frame territory. Go check out the displaylag and other sites.
I have been using the Framemeister on a LCD on a Mist FPGA for awhile now, the advantage is that the Framemeister in combo with the Arcadeforge UMSA is flawless with all the other FPGA cores. Yes, it does have the issues for all the cores with respect to the noise on some flat colors, but it really isn't noticeable if you aren't looking for it in a moving image like a game. I also have a OSSC and that is really good too, its apples and oranges really both are good. If I had to buy stuff all over again, I guess I would've gone OSSC, because of the cost and the unlikely need for the Framemeister because I simply don't have the space to get serious into actual vintage hardware here in Hong Kong, where everyone lives in shoeboxes.... no regrets until....
.....then I got a Sony PMV CRT and haven't looked back since. I'll probably move the Framemeister to the living room when my MISTer FPGA arrives later this month, as I can't see myself playing my Amiga or any of the other consoles (via FPGA) on a LCD ever again. (interestingly the OSSC doesn't work with my Sony 4K TV, so that is worth noting.)
hmmm $28 vs $400? $27 el cheapo upscaler for the win. Its astounding for the prce routes all signals to my avermedia HDMI capture card. All other retro systems routed to it via a cheap $8 UK 5 way
scart switcher.
Do these upscalers. only work with the a3000s. and a2000s. ? I have a 3000 and a 1000.
So I had to make 2 separate orders on Amazon from the US. The Cheap Upscaler was only available to me at Amazon.com and the Amiga RGB SCART cable was only available to me at Amazon UK. Apparently, distribution by exclusivity.
Great video. I don't have the OSSC or the Framemeister. However, I have two of these cheap upscalers, two BenQ BL 702As, One BenQ BL912, two Indivision ECS and one AGA MK2. The cheap upscalers are just horrible. Oversaturated and laggy when scrolling. I think the worst thing is the input lag, making many games unplayable. BenQ screens connected directly to RGB and with finetuned Pixel and phase clocks are just excellent. No input lag, smooth scrolling, no artifacts and rich colours. Another alternative I use is use them in combination with Indivision ECS to have scanlines. Which make the games look more true. When running the Indi ECS in 1:1 mode scrolling is smooth. The Indi ECS has a bug where it will forget it's settings on coldboot so one have to use the Indivision utility to set it to 1:1 after a coldboot. Minor annoyance, but worth it for the scanlines. It also has some slight ghosting in the picture. As for the Indi AGA MK2 it has a horrible utility which takes a long time to experiment with to get it right. I use the AGA MK2 in my 1200 connected to a Phillips 17 inch 5:4 LED monitor. I then made a profile with 720x576 to get the correct PAL aspect ratio and to show overscan area properly. I also finetuned it to 50.128 or something Hz. I experimented in small increments up and down until I found the number that gave me the smoothest scrolling. It has a small stutter now and then but it's perfectly fine for gaming. AGA MK2 also has scanlines which is really nice. It is missing vsync for 50Hz and has a horrible utility that does not give you any finished profiles for the correct aspect ratio. In this manner the Indi ECS is much better. It has less option but at least it gives you 50Hz Vsync and the correct resolution/aspect ratio.
To me these options looks much better compared to a 14 inc CRT TV I have, connected via RGB scart. Scanlines on the above mentioned screens looks very similar to pictures and videos I've seen from PVM/BVMs and Amiga CRT monitors. Also, CRTs have flicker, radiation and curved screens. Personally my eyes cannot handle CRTs anymore. I even remember back in the day getting headache after a few hours of playing on CRTs.
Maybe Modern Vintage Gamer would do an In-depth review of the Indi ECS and AGA MK2?
hello.. is there any way to connect ossc to benq bl702a to get the scanlines?
@@katseazzz Probably if you use a HDMI to VGA converter between the OSSC and the BenQ BL702A
Mvg I am 16 and I really enjoy presentation,showcase and content. Kids in my generation don't like these kind of content so keep us the good work ok
I just ordered the cheap one, just one hour before this video was recommended by youtube. lol
Now I am a bit concerned, because the scrolling in SOTB didn't looked that smoothly. And lag is clearly a deal breaker.
Well, if it looks too bad maybe I'll get an 2nd hand LCD monitor that supports 15kHz out-of-the-box. They are about 30 Euros on ebay too.
But how did the 3 upscalers deal with interlaced graphics? Have they flickerfixer functionality?
Ossc just did another update to 1.88 and massively improved the OSD and added a bunch of features
I really dislike how the framemeister looks... the OSSC is a lot better, you can distinguish the detail in pixels, it doesn't look blended in the framemeister, it looks blurry
i found out i was using 'game' mode in the FM which adds the blending, when i changed it to 'picture' it was much cleaner. On the flip side, the OSSC vertical artifactingi saw seemed to be specific to my Amiga 1200. When i compared it with an A500 the vertical artifacting was gone.
Modern Vintage Gamer so that's what happened, I was confused as to why was the framemeister looking so bad in comparison
Hello so what type of cable is recomended for an Amiga 600 to a VGA15 Pin male Monitor? Thanks!
I bought the cheapie as I don't game much...wonder if the circuit's been improved in 2020.
Great video.
Thank you very much and I envy you for your tshirt!
The Image Quality is way better on the OSSC it's not been processed, The OSSC is basically a scan doubler/trippler by default. The frame master introduces more lag and is processing the image too in this case without tweaks.
Can you post your Framemeister settings? if you are using anything other than "Picture" it will apply a low pass filter that muddies the image. Great comparison!
im pretty sure i used 'game' but ill post settings later
Off topic but.. how do have set up those vertical monitors on your desk?
That cheap upscaled treats everything like its 480i which only good if a game switches resolutions between 480i/240p. The gbs 8200 had the same issue but dooklink figured out how to turn off interlacing. The cheap scaler has data points for programming, if they figure out how to turn off interlacing it would be soooo much better
My cheap upscaler broke 3 days after use so I am awaiting to get an OSSC next payday.
Friend, I need a device that improves the quality of ps3 from 720p to 1080p, which you recommend
with the ossc where you using and custom timings?
What LCD are you using with the OSSC?
I have buy OSCC. Is It possible to have video settings for Amiga 1200?
Where did you get the Amiga to SCART cable?
Got a cheap upscaler and ended up only using it a few times. It made everything black and white, which could be cool for some games. The biggest problem was the horrifying screech it made when in use.
Well they are all nice, but the steep pricing of them is nuts tbh!
All I do for that "Nostalgic" feeling is use the Phono Ports on the Amiga
I do not require expensive or flashy upscaling, as long as I can see the picture and hear the sounds, its fine by me.
The OSSC is a scan-doubler, while the other two are frame-buffer types, as far as I understand it. It's the only way to go for twitch reaction games.
What can i hook up to my Picasso-card, tho? (European model)
I have an Amiga 1200 and a OSSC 1.6. On the Amiga there is a 1024 x 1024 resolution non interlaced. Does anyone know how to get that working on a 1920 x 1080 screen?
Also, there is 640 x 512 interlaced. Is there a way to stop the flicker?
Oh, and I didn't personally think the Framemeister output looked better than the OSSC. At least not from the shots you showed. It seemed like it did some pixel averaging and smoothing during the scaling whereas the OSSC seemed sharper and pixel accurate. Granted the former may be more visually appealing on a large (especially 4k) screen) but it would not be as accurate a representation of the original output. Plus the jittering would drive me nuts.
Also, there are so many different versions of those SCART to HDMI converters that I'm sure they vary in quality from on to the other. Given how many Amiga TH-camr's use them with perfectly acceptable results, I'm think they are what people should try first. They may be more than happy with them and save themselves quite a few $.
Amiga 1200 looked beautiful on my older 4k TV through RGB Scart. New TV has no RGB Scart :(
If you only use the 720p option on the cheap upscaler it works alot better. And the latency is also lower.
Surely it just needs some software to spot the issues and fix it in post?
hi the cheap up scaler link is not working any other links will help cheers
I wonder how the OSCC stands against SLG-in-Box. I've heard both good and bad reviews about SLG-in-Box
the SLG in box is a GBS8220 combined with an SLG scanline generator. the GBS8220 is a very cheap scaler and i can tell you the OSSC would absolutely destroy it in a side by side comparison
The cga/vga scaler is to me one of the more "quick and dirty" scalers out there. It doesn't do 1:1, 1:2 scaling with any way for your scanlines to be accurate and there's the added 2 frame delay on top of it. Hardly convenient in my case, plus interlaced content is out of the question.
Fredrik Rambris
The SLG-In-A-Box is just that - a $20 GBS board with two bits of perspex bolted on, and a simple (age-old - three logic chips) "scanline" generator and LM1881 sync stripper tacked on.
That would be fine if they weren't asking €169 ($200) for it. :o
The GBS boards aren't too bad at all for certain apps, but it does have similar issues to the cheap SCART scaler.
It also does really require the LM1881 in many cases (eg. RGB SCART), or it may have trouble locking on to the Csync input.
There is a project (on shmups, IIRC?) which uses a Rasp Pi to re-configure the scaler chip on the GBS, so it essentially handles 240p / 288p much better.
The Rasp Pi is huge overkiil though, as a cheap Arduino can do the same job.
(btw - the SLG-IAB doesn't even appear to use shielded coax for hooking up the extra boards to the GBS, just some "IDE" style ribbon cable. I would have personally expected a bit more for $200.)
Most interesting.
is amigakit the best place to go in australia?
I myself have something like over 30 game systems (consoles and computers). I recently updated my video projector from Panasonic AE-900 to Panasonic AE-4000. The newer one doesn't have SCART anymore and it doesn't have a proper support for old consoles graphics modes. I firstly bought exactly the same cheap scaler, just to get something quick. It's horrible. For example, trying to play any horizontal scrolling shooter on Saturn, was impossible. Scrolling was jerky and was giving me a headache almost instantly. Also, it cannot handle interlaced pictures properly. Next I bought an scart to component box, but it didn't change anything as AE-4000 still cannot handle interlaced signals properly. Jerky scrolling was as bad as with the cheaper converter.
I ended to install my old AE-900 back as a second projector, to be used with old consoles. It handles everything perfectly.
I cannot talk myself to pay something like 400€ for something like Framemeister, 200€ maybe would be an absolute maximum I could consider...
Though I have few of my systems (like CD32, 3D0, MD, 7800, 2600, N64, Colecovision etc.) connected to my old 32" Sony Trinitron CRT, which is still nice ;)
I think looking at this is that the OSSC has the best colour as I see the other two as being foggy.
The Banding looks like it is caused by the either the contrast or brightness too high. The Framemeister looks darker which would explain this theory.
that could be true but i didnt change any of the brightness or gamma settings. I've also been informed that an Amiga 500 doesn't show the banding and its related to an Amiga 1200 only (which is what i used for this video) so ill definetly look into that as well as changing some settings around
Interesting, could just be the way the Contrast and Brightness is handled inside the tech. Something that you cant physically change but maybe with firmware. Could be the AGA giving it grief. Great vid. Looking for an upscaler for my Accelerated A1200. To be honest the cheap one looked brighter than the framemeister but was clearly more laggy. Good for the price though.
what the name of the last game you showed? 13:03
0 for 2 on the cheap upscaler from Amazon and then eBay. In each case they sent me HDMI to HDMI converter while the labels on each box says, PAL/NTSC SCART + HDMI to HDMI. They really should open the boxes they get from their supplier. Therefore I will ask the next seller on eBay to please open the box and to confirm that what they are posting online is actually Inside the Box.
I have the cheap one, it works fine and for the price it’s a lot cheaper than the others
Hi. Why would these routes be preferable to simply getting an HDMI LCD TV with a standard picture zoom facility
Because picture quality is lost when you do that. In fact it can look absolutely terrible.
Where is gbs82xx with gbs-control firmware, cheaper alternative to ossc with amazing results for a price of $30-40 in total
Have you tried the Indivision? I use that and the picture quality is great. I tend to use it for interlaced mode and non interlaced mode I use RGB connection on my Commodore 1084S monitor (super amazing picture from that)
yes i do own an Indivision AGA and ECS. they are very good picture wise but the problem with the Indivision is that its locked at 60hz, and therefore wont scroll smooth with any european demos that requre 50hz.
My Indivision AGA runs 50Hz fine. (and 60Hz if I play NTSC games)
it runs fine sure but it doesn't scroll smooth at 50hz. try Jim Power and it will stutter
There's an option in the indivision settings to enable 100hz for PAL screen modes. I can't remember if this fixes any screen tearing or not but I assume it would help since it's a multiple of 50
Jim Power runs 100% smooth here. I hooked up two monitors to the Amiga to compare. Maybe there is differences between the revisions of the board, or you need to enable 50Hz in the Indivision Config Tool? I remember changing some settings, but its so long ago I barely remember. btw, Thanks for the awesome video.
Why not going for an FPGA Amiga instead that outputs HDMI natively?
Like the FPGA Arcade Replay or Mister?
Why would someone who already owns a real Amiga buy an FPGA Amiga just to get HDMI output? Might as well just run an Amiga emulator on a PC at that point.
good video man
Have you had a read through the following thread on the OSSC support forum?
www.videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/advanced-timing-settings-for-amiga/
Great video as always, I received my v1.6 OSSC about the same time as you in the UK, haven't tried it on my Amigas yet though but works like a charm on my Super Famicom and Japanese Sega Mega Drive.
i haven't - to be honest i just turned the units on and started capturing, but ill definitely look into advanced tweaking options tho - thanks for the link!
Where can i get that t-shirt ? :)
Hello
Please the link forn the cheapest one is broken.
Could.you give a.new link or the reference of the product on amazon.fr or amazon.uk?
Bests regards
hi link needs updating for cheap one thanks
I have read that the OSSC handles resolution changes much better than the Framemeister does. It does irritate me a little that it takes several seconds for my Framemeister / TV to react to any resolution changes. I really hoped someone could maybe do a custom firmware to handle that better? :) Wishful thinking I know!
it does handle a resolution change much faster but there is still a slight delay.
that goofy ass running in shadow of the beast lmao
I've had the ossc for a while now and even though i dont got an amiga i honestly liked the ossc better than the framemeister in terms of amiga quality.
the off center and blurry image would drive me crazy.
thats about DBLPAL DBLNTSC mode ?
honestly, to me, the framemeister seems muddy and blurry, though obviously not nearly as much as the cheapo. I'd say the OSSC has the better image quality. that color banding is a limitation of the Amiga, not the OSSC.
Does the OSSC team make do it yourself kits?
I don't agree, the OSSC is getting a sharper image and much better contrast ratio, the colors seems washed in framemeister.
Nice video! I just went to amazon.ca to find the "cheap upscaler at 40$". It is 39$ on amazon.com, but on amazon.ca they ask 90$ for it. *Sigh*. I fold...
It looks like you lightened the video for the 'Cheap Upscaler' because even your blacks are lightened up while the FM and OSSC are dark black the 'cheap upscale' is gray bottomed. Is that really all from the hardware?
I have seen how the cheap up-scaler works and it didn't impressed me.
Up-scalers are excellent solutions though, giving the user the ability to hook almost any kind of monitor on their old system.
Personally, i have used the RGB/SCART-LCD/TV solution on my 1200 for more than 3 years and i have mixed feelings.
I have no complaint from the clarity of the image but yet, it's way far from what a RGB monitor or a CRT/TV can do.
Scanlines... real scanlines... do i have to say anything more?
11:36 mate, did you forget to close down your tanning bed? :)
The cheap SCART-to-HDMI scalers looks good on static images, the problem is that when stuff moves on-screen they become incredibly blurry, rending it unuseable for games with BG scrolling (and that's not even taking into account the added input lag this adds into the mix, rendering twitch-reflexes games unplayable)
My TV's built-in scaler is better than this thing...
I guess it's an okay stopgap for certain monitors. Or fine if you're okay with the flaws I mentionned. I'm really anal about picture quality but some others aren't and I realize that. For the price it's hard to complain. It's an adequate solution for a lot of people.
What TV do you use Final Aton?
Great comparision, the reason why theres rainbow banding in colors on the oss devive may have to do with that it does NOT support a colorpallet of 16,7 millions colord but only supports 250.000 colors,as a result,colors has to be sacriffied resulting in those ugly rainbow banding colors,
also you want to make sure that the adc chip is 16bit stereo to maintain most of the quality, trough i wish for a 24bit adc to have no lose at all,i say this because some scalers may only have chip 8bit adc's in it,resulting in high loss audio quality !!!
It was reported that the ossc supports 4:4:4 color space.
I'm wondering if this is due to the settings or if the lack of dithering exposes this from the video signal?
johneygd
Where did you read that the OSSC only handles 250,000 colours?
Maybe the old version did, because it was using a resistor ladder DAC for the analog output, but the newer v1.6 has an HDMI output.
The TVP7002 ADC used for the analog input(s) definitely is a true 24-bit ADC (16.7 million colours), and the entire data path in the OSSC 1.6 logic is also full 24-bit RGB, including the line buffer BRAM.
The reason the OSSC is showing some slight vertical banding is likely because it's not adding the horrible low-pass filtering / smearing that the Framemeister is in this example.
I'm not sure how anyone thinks there Framemeister image looks "better" in the screenshot comparison around 8:08?
It's completely smudging the pixel detail and colours together.
You are supposed to see the "colour banding" on the Amiga. Most OCS / ECS games only have a palette of around 32 colours or so anyway, so you are seeing it closer to how it looked on a good CRT with an OSSC.
Please compare the two screenshots to a capture from the Flicker Filter (DVI), or even from WinUAE, as that pixel-perfect quality of image is essentially what we're aiming for here.
There are also many options on both the Framemeister and OSSC that could have affected the results here.
The flickering noise in the background of the Meister capture looks far more distracting to me than the vertical banding in the OSSC capture.
(The low-pass filter option in the OSSC would probably have hidden most of that, as is what seem to be happening with the FM.)
Other metrics include whether the Amiga used in the test has had a full re-cap, as the noise in both captures could be a symptom of tired caps.
It also obviously depends on the quality of shielding in the RGB SCART cable, correct conductor impedance / termination, whether there are extra capacitors in the cable itself etc. etc.
ElectronAsh well uh i never did read about this but it was just a suspiciouse idea that the ossc may only use 250.000 colorpallet,but if you say that this model does use a 24bit RGB colorpallet as well as a 24bit adc chip,then i do belief that.
Yeah it's true that due color limitations of the amiga as well as other game consoles,those rainbowish colord are supposed to be there, but it blows my mind how some scalers could take rid off these rainbow bandings using color blending.
I am very curiouse how snes games will benefit from this since many snes games do have a strange horizontal color rainbow banding in the middle of the screen like in f zero or starfox etc,,, because i would like to see these bandings getting blended away and sadly no snes emulator supports color blending.
johneygd
The SNES banding issue is a known one too - it's an analog domain issue, so not to do with the actual PPU rendering, AFAIK.
It can be improved a LOT, using a video amp, better quality video cables, and replacing the main 7805 voltage reg etc.
Many retro machines had similar issues, and it's the very reason we can capture that so well now that shows up some of the flaws that might otherwise gone unseen on the average consumer CRT.
I would consider any "blending" of colours to be a post-processing filter though, and definitely not an accurate representation of what the console / computer is actually outputting.
Even on a common CRT monitor like the Philips CM1883 style (that were very often used with the Amiga), I've never seen the type of blurring seen in the Framemeister captures in this vid. It looks terrible, IMO. Nothing like what a decent high-bandwith video capture is supposed to look like.
There is an argument for certain (subtle) post-processing filters to be applied to retro games, but that's a different discussion.
tbh, I'm still kind of stunned that anyone would think the Framemeister "looks fantastic" in this vid?
I'm not affiliated with the OSSC project, nor the cheap scaler in this vid btw.
If you want the OSSC to look more like the Framemeister capture, I'm sure the low-pass filter on the OSSC can be enabled easily, and a pixel detail / colour smearing algo added. :p
(There are a ton of other variables as to why the FM capture looks quite so blurry too.)
My friend Woht-Yu from China though about it.