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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2021
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My wife just yelled from the other room "Stop listening to him!", particularly when you mentioned I could get two new telescopes and mounts for less than the cost of the CN212.
I love it!
🤣🤣
Haha.
I hope this channel will keep growing. Very informative, easy to watch and understand everything as a beginner. The way ed talks about everything so calmly and confidently makes me think "this guy really knows what he is talking about".
Same!
"It retains its collimation really well." Are we sure this is a Takahashi? lol
i have never clicked so fast on a video. love you ed ting
Haha you are too kind.
@@edting :")
Holy cow! I received one of these CN-212's from a friend in Japan last year for the Mars Opposition. Made in 1997, very used condition, totally out of collimation! Collimation was quite easy and it holds collimation like a rock every time dead on at 500x magnification on bright stars. No mirror flop (no change in collimation when doing Meridian Flip). Some mirror shift, but not bad. Focuser stiff and difficult to use in the cold (6C) when the scope is pointing moderately strongly upwards! No dew on the secondary, like ever, but ever so slight dew on primary after many hours (I am in UK). Ultra-quality optics, ultra smooth, no scattered light from poor polish. Super bright mirror coatings, no coatings flaws after 24 years. Very white Moon, unlike my year 2000 C11 and Meade EMC 7" Mak which render it yellow ish. Fairly long cool down time, I find (I keep mine outdoors on my mount under a cover, strongly dewheated at both ends permanently when not use, and with Astro Essentials dessicant cap on it). Finder doesn't stay aligned all the time because I disturb it sometimes when I unscrew the illuminator, which I have to every time because of bad electrical contacts in it that need me to unscrew the illuminator into two halves by a little every time I use it to get the LED to come on. I hate the clam shell, the castings give the impression of being weak and I do the large black knob up but not very tightly. Front metal cap would not go back on in the cold, I had to remove one of the green felt pads and replace with self adhesive paper! I don't have the Newton mirror or coma corrector or Cassegrain reducer. Very fussy with seeing because it resolves every little bit of atmospheric error from it's awesome optical quality. Very, very sharp optics, needle like ultra sharp stars, not bloated blobs like my C11, no false color (2 mirrors only). Heavy construction, very long tube (2x length of SCT), tricky to handle. Very good performance on planets, beats my 7" Mak. Won't come to focus with certain eyepieces when using 1.25" 9 position filter wheel (for planetary color or Light Pollution filters in two of these wheels that I own), also won't come to focus with ZWO Atmospheric Dispersion Corrector with certain eyepieces (again not enough primary mirror travel, unlike my C11). No Spherical Aberration, no Astigmatism, even at very high magnifications. Some rather noticeable Coma off axis. Overall awesome scope and displaced my 7" Mak and C11, now it's my most used scope. These were 5,000 Euros when last sold new in 2005 in Europe, mine was used by a first owner in France who ruined it and Tak refurbished it with many new parts. All the items such as Newton mirror were Optional extras!!
Thank you for the very detailed write-up. Not that I would expect anything less from a model engineer.
Nice post, thanks!
The ol value buy comparison argument... of course now I'm going to buy 2 new scopes and mounts... hey! It's cheaper than a Takahashi!
Great review!!
Beautiful images Ed
Great video Ed.
Hey, Ed! May you do another Q&A? Those are so awesome, and I learn a lot!
A great review of a great scope. Thanks for pointing me over to this post. Bring this back :)
Quite a fascinating device.
Many thanks for the video. While I love my Intes, this is my dream scope. This became especially true after getting to look through one in both configurations.
Just found your channel very informative excellent channel.
What a cool telescope for imagers! A fast wide field for DSO imaging AND a long and compact planetary beast :)
Amazing info and demonstration.2 in 1. Tanks.
This channel is great!
Thank you for your kind comment.
@@edting you deserve all the kind comments!
Nice to see some images you took with this telescope.
I think you should do this with all the telescopes you review to give an idea of what they're capable of.
Thanks. I try to show images, keep in mind astrophotography is incredibly time consuming and adds days or sometimes weeks to the length of a review!
@@edting Fair point!
Thanks for the great video again
Thank you for watching!
As an owner, I can attest to the optics - they are next level! Superb.
Very interesting, Ed. I never knew such a telescope existed.
Like having two telescopes in one. I will have to save up.. Thanks for a great video Ed.
I had a 1989ish parks optical 12" f/4 f/12 convertible on a big German equatorial mount. It was used and came with eyepiece, clock Drive, University Optics 8mmm finder, and a declination north south control motor. I paid $500. I have a 10-inch cave ff7 Newtonian 1961 and it consistently out-performed the F12 cassegrain and the F4 was useless in the city. I kept the equatorial mount and the 80 mm finder and sold the tube assembly for $1,200. Man that scope was big.
That was the Parks HIT--Hybrid Integrated Technology--line. They were pretty rare then, and I doubt many have survived.
Seems like a great design! I wonder why no-one else took up this style of convertible scope.
What a Fascinating telescope.
I agree. I hated to give this one back!
dang. can't afford one.well at least my car is a convertible lol-thanks ed
I've had a convertible 12.5" since 1978, but it was custom made in the US, and not a Takahashi. It is now in storage because the hyperbolic secondary was lost in a fire, so it can only be used in Newtonian mode as an f/4. I searched around looking for a company to make a custom secondary, but it would be very pricey. I might make my own someday in my retirement years by refiguring a spherical secondary which are easier to find. Also mine was made with two 2" focusers. The convertible feature gives you either scope in just a matter of minutes, so really there should be no hesitation in converting between the two. The 12.5" is a scope that needs to be permanently pier-mounted. and it is heavy because it used a 3 inch thick pyrex primary mirror and you have 2 heavy focusers. You mention the issue with photographing at the prime focus, so the scope you used must be missing an extension tube. or the T-ring adapter fir the camera back got replaced with a short tube version. It is also possible that there was a helical focuser and that is missing. It doesn't make sense that you would fine focus at the primary when in Newtonian mode. Based on how it is currently set up, you would need to move the primary fully when you place the camera at prime focus. I would then add an aftermarket focuser attached to the t-ring, and it would likely need to be a helical focuser.
I've also seen some old Cave Astrolas that had this configuration, but I'm not sure if they came from the factory that way or if the owner modded the scope somehow.
@@edting I'm pretty sure mine was a Star-Liner from Tucson. Didn't Cave and Star-Liner share similar if not identical setups? My memory has faded. The next-cass models start on page 28 of their catalog from back in the 70s. Here is the link. Neat catalog with a lot of specs. web.archive.org/web/20151016214343/geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/classics/star-liner/SL.pdf
@@edtingI think I remember seeing parks offer convertible newtonian/cassegrain scopes
Those lunar images are just superb. I wonder what fairy dust they sprinkled into this scope.
In '96 when I was looking at getting a scope, I was presented 2 options, the Vixen VC200L or the Takahashi CN-212. The CN-212 was more expensive than the VC200L and I ended up going with the VC200L. What a pity as I would have enjoyed owning such a classic piece.
Ed have you ever owned a Buyers or Schaefer mount? Great channel, hope you keep em coming. Subscribed
“The solution is obvious. Just buy two.” Lol.
Ed, I’m sure you know that all of the big “research” telescopes (the ones that live on top of mountains) are set up this way.
Ed, stop making me want to buy more telescopes. Great video, buddy!
Great to hear from you, Sam!
A variation on this theme is the Hyperstar adapter made by Starizona for photography with Celestron SC and EdgeHD scopes. You remove the secondary mirror and replace it with a lens/adapter for mounting a camera at the front of the tube. The $1000 8-inch version changes the focal length from 2032 mm to 390 mm, and the f ratio from f/10 to f/1.9. It is impossible to use the Hyperstar for visual astronomy, though.
Thanks for the reminder, Ron!
The fastar/hyperstar concept is more of a conversion to a Schmidt camera rather than a newtonian
I never knew about convertible telescopes. Thanks for the introduction. BTW.....what bortle skies did you take the pictures at? Thanks.
I'm somewhere around a 4. Keep in mind, for the moon what matters most is the seeing conditions, not the sky darkness.
You can't image on fullframe if the optics is calculated for APS-c
Hello, Ed im curious if you'd consider looking at a telescope like the SV bony 503 80mm f7 or Astrotech 80mm f7. They're both 80mm f7 doublets and are relatively inexpensive as far as ED telescopes go. They both cost 399 dollars new. they both use cheaper ED glass. The Astrotech uses FK-61 and the SV bony uses FPL-51.
I have an Svbony scope set up mainly as my camera-based guidescope and like it very much. Sometimes I just use it for capturing planetary images. As far as a head-to-head comparison, I haven't done that. but I am happy with what I got for the price I paid. The hardware parts are similar to Orion or Meade quality. I think many entry-level scopes are made in the same factory, actually since the parts are interchangeable. Just branded differently.
Sir, every review you do is great bit this time my jaw dropped when I say a Newt and a Cass TOGETHER!! Why aren't they made nowadays by some other companies? are they patented or something? From a practical point of view only this tube makes sense especially for guys like me who're not into astro photography.
Yeah, someone should really revive this concept!
If you ordered a 12 inch classical newtonian-cassegrain today, it would probably cost $15k as just an OTA. It requires two focusers, two finders, a heavy duty primary cell, and a heavy duty drive for the added weight. One downside is that if you are using it where the cass focus is at a comfortable level, then the newt focus requires a step ladder to reach.
Speaking of shootouts: Ed why don't you do a review on IStar's apo and a comparable Takahashi telescope? There have been 2 back to back CN user reviews on IStar's apo.
Hey I love the channel, after taking advise from you're videos I decided to get an Orion XT8 and it's really great. Im wondering if I would get a telescope thats a bit more portable and that would work alright in somewhat light polluted sky's, what would you (or anyone else in the comments) recommend? thanks
Maybe a small refractor (~80mm) on an alt-az mount?
@@edting ok thanks I’ll check some out
@@sheevpalpatine9487there are always 90mm, 102mm and 127mm, as well as 150mm maksutov cassegrain, ideal as a smaller more portable scope that excells at lunar/planetary, and with a rear cell adapter for 2" scy threads, a 2" sct diagonal can be added so you can use 38-42mm superwides and 55-56mm plossls, for a brighter/wider field, for deep space. Note that deep space is better in dark skies regardless, but the 8" will resolve globular clusters much better than a smaller aperture. In the case of the 90mm size, with a smooth enough pan head, you can use them on a quality or mid range photo tripod. I have an old velbon tripod with an orion paragon tripod head and can get enjoyable grab and go use with my 90mm.
In the past I have used 127mm mak on small goto mounts as well.
People who say maks aren't good deep sky scopes are people who haven't put 2" diagonals on them, mainly because there is a huge contingent out there telling people you can't do it because the rear baffle isn't big enough. I find this only to be true in the case of 90mm ones. For the 125/127 and larger, it works just fine.
I am bummed to have lost my more recently acquired 127mak (I sold my original one way back when I had too many scopes and not enough money) along with my xt8 a couple achromats and a few mounts, which were in my van when it got impounded and I was prevented from getting it out in time. Someone scored on that, and I'm sure it was the same people who were behind the while situation in the first place.
I do still have my 90 mak and one of my 2 remaining camera tripods at least, and my 2 fork/wedge scts, an st80, a 4"f10 achromat, astroview EQ, and an xt6 and starhopper 10. But all but my 4lb counterweights were also in the van as well as my power tank, so I am a bit limited as to what I can do let alone the loss of the van to haul stuff to dark skies. The 4" is grounded until I can get another weight, so my astroview is limited to either the 90 or the st80. And my c8 needs a power tank if I ever was to take it somewhere. I can get several hours out of 10 AA batteries in the battery pack that came with my 10" meade LX6 premiere, but that would add up quickly, so a power tank and counterweights are something I need to get.
Some numbers, using a synta 127mm mak for example (skywatcher, orion and some celestrons, though I believe the lesser version was a 130 made by bosma). They are 1540mm f12.1, and with a 56mm plossl you get 4.6mm exit pupil, which is decent for Nebulae with a filter or in semi dark skies, this is 27.5x with a field of approx 1.89deg. With a 40mm 72deg like a william optics swan it is a 3.3mm exit pupil at 38.5x with roughly the sane true field as the 56mm plossl.
That is definitely in the range of DSO observation. Another budget eyepiece I used mine with was a 1rpd 80deg 30mm, which is a chinese clone of a widescan III 84 degree (but stopped down a bit to 80), which has been available under several brands, bw optiik (the one I have now), Owl ultrawide, agena uptrawide, and the unbranded ones that just say UW80 on them. With the 30mm you get 2.48mm exit pupil at 51.3x and approx 1.6 deg true field. And a quite immersive experience with the 80 deg field. At f12.1 even the budget UW80 is pretty sharp almost to the edge.
So now I am quite upset to not have mine anymore, the more that I think of it.
Fascinating telescope! Does the focuser actually adjust the position of the primary? I can't figure out how else you're using the focuser at the back even in Newtonian mode.
Yes, it focuses like a typical Schmidt-Cassegrain, but with less travel.
I didn't realize that's how the focuser on SC's worked, thanks for teaching me something new today!
Ed: Is your suggestion that a person can buy a reflector and a SCT meant to imply that these two can be somehow literally physically joined into one scope?. In effect, is your suggestion a DIY project and, if so, how can it be done? Thank you.
You can buy separate newtonian and cassegrain telescopes for the cost of a single next-cass telescope. However, there is no way to buy separate newtonian and cassegrain telescopes and physically put them together into one. I wouldn't even try putting them together on one massive mount because you would be frustrated by having to rebalance it every time you switched systems. To make your own, a newtonian parabolic primary would need to be drilled out and the classical cassegrain function requires a highly specialized hyperboloid shaped secondary be used that is matched to the primary Plus a newt-cass requires a lot of specialized hardware like a perforated mirror cell, dual focusers, dual finders, etc. Very neat telescope though if you can find one for sale.
Debate, CN = convertible newtonian or cassegrain/newtonian?
Hi ED,
I’m thinking of purchasing a Meade lx 90 8 inch. My question is can I attach a camera for 30 sec exposure on the alt az mount that comes in. I would like to only image galaxies fir the purpose of hunting for supernova. I know I’m dreaming but it’s fun. Will it work.
Kind regards Alex from Australia
Only if you have it up on a wedge. In pure alt-az mode you are going to have field de-rotation problems.
@@edting thanks Ed
Is all brands for the 8” dobsonian telescope different or all the same quality and viewing.
Yes, most of them are based on the same couple of platforms sourced from overseas. They are all recommended.
I used an Orion 8 inch from my club and then ended up buying an Apertura AD10. The Apertura was a much better build with better accessories.
brilliant channel as soon as i see a video up i am on it!!!!, as for myself this has been a disaster the last few days. did an imaging session and brought the tracking mount in, took the camera off and put it in the kitchen til the morning . my little one got in past the safety gate , my partner had a lapse of concentration. over goes my tracking mount . damage has occured in the worse possible place , the worm gear that rotates everything has a slight bent in it . after stripping it all down and repairing it as best i can i think i have it to where 1 in 5 shots are bad but still its devastating as i cannot afford to replace it. its currently running for 4 hours on the whirlpool galaxy , as it stands i would settle for 3 our of 4 hours data still being good.,
Wow, sorry to hear. Someday I'll tell the story of how three goto mounts died on me in one night.
@@edting wow please do that sounds like a story and a half, albeit a painful one. I have come to the conclusion that the little stepper motor has died from what I can tell as the gear turning is not a consistent motion anymore.
I am buying a gso 8 dob telescope is it good enough for a beginner?
Yes, all the current 8" Dobs are recommended.
@@edting. thanks alot for replying i had one more qs .......what can i actually see through that telescope through an eye piece?
So, can the new, classic Casses be converted to fast newts?
No, sadly not. You'd have to buy a separate telescope for that :)
Not true. It can be done but you'll need an experienced optical engineer to custom fabricate you a secondary mirror. But that will cost a fortune so no not really lol 😂
Ed I love ya, but you just went over my head!
Don't worry, this scope goes over my head too!
I've viewed several of these videos, and always catch the part where you explain your club "tricks out" a telescope you donate to libraries. I work for the city of Santa Fe in NM, and would love for our libraries to be considered for that donation. We have beautiful skies devoid of light pollution, and I know we would spark so much interest with a donation like that. Please let me know what I can do!!! Please feel free to contact me for my personal contact information!