I think Giant have nailed it with this bike. Its a proper race bike with a more forgiving geometry which will suit most riders more than a TCR or Propel.
I have the latest TCR and a 2017 Cannondale Synapse which is like the new Defy a more "road performance oriented" endurance bike, usually I choose to race the Synapse, much better on our rough chip roads over longer distances, the TCR pretty much gets used for sprint training.
You called it! I did exactly this last week! Sold my 2022 TCR Adv SL and replaced it with a 2024 Defy Adv SL. Swapped out the Ultegra Di2 for DA Di2 and the Fondo 32c tires for Conti GP5k TR S in 30mm. Also changed the very nice Fleet SLR saddle for a Cadex AMP. Bike is 7kg now and after my first few rides on it...I'm not missing the TCR at all. Until maybe next year when the superlight TCR gets unveiled.
I have tried lots of saddles like all of us i guess haha, And i find that Giant saddle to stay permanently on the bike without any better option out there...
@@ozzz3365 long nose 'approach is my favorite. Have a prologo on my race bike. And its fine for what it is. But the approach saddle is sooo lush. Wouldn't work well on my AR i dont think
@@Mububban23 had the Sworks size 54 and two sets of rovals, the deep and shallow. The bike rear end, bottom bracket and chain stays flexes a lot to dampen the ride and sucks all of the power that you might put. The geometry is a race one, that is, while pushing and flexing on the bottom bracket, you will find it hard to reach the handlebar and hence gravitate to the front. I rode for 2 years to fix the geometry flex challenge. And I let on dripping when joining high speed group rides. My numbers were higher on my old argon 18 nitrogen. Bike is crusing around in shallow wheels nothing more. It is just very pricy to what it offers.
Hi David, loved the review. Around a year ago bought a 2nd hand 2013 Giant tcr aluminium bike whilst in England! After some upgrades loved the ride quality, and armchair ride compared to my alu Cannondale. So much so went and bought a new carbon Tcr advanced pro disc 2022, around 6 months ago. After group set/wheels and other upgrades. its now my favourite ride. I didn't slam the bars and kept the original height to give me an 'endurance' bike experience. Originally was toying with a Defy but now glad I got the Tcr in its current state, to me the best of both worlds! However, I can see the points you're making regarding the Defy! Keep up the good videos!🙂🙂🙂
Thanks David . I just put a deposit on a Defy Advanced Pro 0 2024 . After viewing your review recently on the Willier Grantourismo I started investigating this “endurance” bike segment. It made more sense to me being in my early 50s now . Anyway after looking at the Spec Roubaix I thought this was a less fussy compromise as discussed in your previous video . After completing a 220 km “around the bay “ ride here this weekend on my 10 year old BMC SLO1 and pulling up with a bruised tail I cannot wait for my new Giant . Thanks again David for this great video . 👍
I think one thing I like about the new Defy, is the 38c tyre clearance. I was looking at a Revolt but wanted something faster as most of my riding is tarmac with an occasional gravel ride locally. The Defy ticks ALOT of boxes and I think having two sets of tyres, 28c Vittoria Corsa TLR 28's for daily riding and 35c gravelking for gravel rides. Just put an order in for a 2024 Defy Advanced SL 1 in Golden Haze Cant wait
I agree with you the new 2024 Defy is a great bike. I used to have a 2023 Defy Advanced 3 with Tiagra groupset. I found this Defy was quite slow and heavy. I swapped my Defy for a 2023 Giant TCR Advanced 1 with Ultegra Groupset and found the bike is much lighter and faster than the Defy. The issue with the TCR is comfort which is lacking a bit. The main issue with the Defy is one must spend a lot of money to get the lighter, faster version, compared to the cheaper Defy range which appears to be heavier and slow.
@@seanmccuen6970 i hate to say it but, i just spent a FORTUNE on a new race bike, and i will never buy from the low end again. But in all honesty TIME bikes have made a big comeback, and i think thats where my next money will go. An ALP, or an ADHX 45. Worth a look before you buy
Love your riding & talking bits:) Best part of the video in my opinion David :) Regarding the bike, anyone 35yrs+ will understand what you are trying to say 😅 I am with you on swapping bikes 100% Defy is an excellent compromise.
I gave up my race bike for a Canyon Endurace this summer and wish I had done it way sooner. Comfortable and smooth. Fast enough. Able to ride hard pack trails and light gravel as built. Love the bike and never hesitate going for a ride.
I’ve ordered the new model Endurace CF SLX 8 Aero to replace my previous model Canyon Ultimate which I’ve put more than 30,000km on. I do race the occasional Crit race but mainly it’s week day 50km rides and weekend 75-100km club rides. I figure the Endurace comfort will be better for the long club rides but also I’m not young anymore and my current Ultimate has 25mm of spacers under the stem. The stack height of the new Endurace is 19mm higher than my old Ultimate so if I slam the stem with no spacers on the new Endurace I get a lower effective stack height than my current race Ultimate. But the nice thing about this new Canyon handlebar set up as it is so easy to increase or reduce the stem height without cutting the steerer tube. The other attraction of the new Endurace over the ultimate is the price. Here in Australia Canyon is charging $2000 extra for exactly the same component spec that is DT Swiss 1400 wheels with 240 hubs on both (except the ultimate of 50 mm deep and the Endurace 35mm deep, which is less error, but more practical and lighter wheels), and the same Ultegra Di2 12 speed, the same adjustable aero cockpit. Spec for spec, they are effectively the same bike with a different geometry, but the Endurace is $2,000 cheaper 🤷♂️
I built up a Grail CF SLX frame into a road bike during the start of the pandemic. I did a detailed study on the geometry and found the frame size that was close to my 09 madone. With wide tubeless wheels and a Red AXS groupset, The bike is fast and comfortable. I could put gravel tires on it, but I would use it only on light gravel as the body position is still very much race oriented. I really like the split rail seat post, even on the road. Sounds like the Defy is similar to my build.
I thought we all will arrive to the endurance category some day. But not so soon! 46 y/o I still have few more years for that.. But in general, you are right. The fact that %50 of the time my hands on t o p of the handle bar of my TCR definitely shows my back is ready for the defy... But not yet! 😅
Might sell my Tarmac SL6 for the new Defy! As David said; a perfect “racer zero”. The bike looks awesome too. Really fast and hardly any different than a TCR! For sure not an old man’s bike.
I’m 54 and don’t race, but to me the fun of riding road is the speed. I personally don’t like an “endurance” bike. I have an endurance based frame that I moved my components onto and rode it for a couple months. Never was satisfied with it. It was sluggish and less responsive. Yes it was comfortable.
Just bought a used 2022 Defy Advanced, and I have to say, I'm absolutely loving it. This is my third bike, my first was a 2021 Cannondale Caad Optimo 3, then a 2022 Orbea Avant H40-D, and now this Defy Advanced 3. First off, the design of the bike looks great, and the colour is amazing (looks like a red ruby to me). The bike is so confortable, even with all the stock accessories. When I went from my Cannondale to the Orbea, I thought I felt like it was in another league confort-wise. But this Defy is just amazing. It feels much stiffer and faster than my Orbea as well, even though the groupset is the same (Shimano Tiagra 10 sp). The only thing I don't like about my Defy as of now is the fact that the cables aren't fully integrated like the newer model. But seeing as I got this one for half the price of a brand new one, I can't complain !
It's as simple as this why many bike reviewers are switching from aero to lightweight/endurance bikes. We are getting old and we are all about comfort over performance. Let's not lie to ourselves. The moment I bought my Émonda SL5 for climbing and comfort at 38, I didn't look back. The important thing is to love biking and being able to do so. Keep on riding everyone. Whether a beach cruiser or a TT bike and everything in-between.
I swapped from specialized tarmac 2015 to a 2018 (I think) defy carbon. Both 105 and full carbon. Immediately was far slower on the defy, upgraded the wheels to hunts, changed the brakes to hydraulic, still slower. Mistake for me. Cheaper Felt F4 (lighter) immediately quicker again. Really wanted to like the defy
It makes me sad to see the TCR go because my very own TCR is very similar to David's. With many components choices following the same principals. Still a great bike for me, and I don't need a new one every year as I don't need to produce content or review bikes.
Well, Thank you David!! This throws a spanner in the works. As an additional bike to my performance gravel bike I was thinking of an Aero Bike and managed to try out the new Scott Foil which blew me away with it's speed and comfort. Now I'm thinking would an endurance bike be better?! They are certainly cheaper and lighter.
Scott foil is a perfect racing machine. The Defy is more comfortable. The head tube is longer makes your back more relax. The wheelbase is longer makes the bike more stable. The handling should be less aggressive. The big question is if you prefer little bet more comfort Or you you prefer less comfort for total race feeling... The mother of all questions...
If Giant would give David a dollar per mention of the word "teeecee-aaar", he would have a garage full of Defy's! Lovely review, keep up the great work.
I've been riding my 2013 Defy for 10 years. I keep thinking I "should" upgrade. Almost everyone on my group rides is now on racing machines with disc brakes, e-shifting, internal cables, etc. Thing is, my Defy has no trouble keeping up so I haven't been able to justify an "upgrade." You've got me thinking I should just get a new Defy.
A comparable Defy with Shimano 105 Di2 is US$1K more than the TCR. Also I question the need for 34x36 gearing on a road bike. I swapped out my 11-34 105 cassette for a 11-30 ultegra cassette on my 2023 TCR cause I just had no need for 34x34 gearing. I run Schwalbe Pro One 30mm tubeless at 50 psi on my TCR SLR1 carbon wheels.
But the roubaix can be the quiver killer. I don’t know if I was lucky, I got the Cervelo aspero (not the 5) during the “shortage” after the checkpoint wasn’t delivered. I need only 1 bike, so it kinda needs to do both road and gravel(not crazy gravel)
I've got a 10 year old Roubaix sl3. It's so controlled and so smooth to ride. Other bike is a de rosa King 3 similar vintage on which I've swapped out nearly everything and while quick and a good climber is nowhere near as comfy or stable. Just swapped out handlebars for carbon Aero. Hoping that will make it rideable. Only downside to the s works is inability for good climbing gear without dropping big money
Bike dilemma David. You have posted yet another fab video that has made my bike choice harder. Fairlight Strael or Giant Defy? Assuming similar cost? I need to replace my old trek with something a bit more modern! I’m getting older and don’t race but love speed! Help!
Great review of what seems like a great bike! How does this compare to the Domane? I’m new to cycling and I’m on the lookout for an endurance bike which can handle norwegian roads (not unlike the path you were on, but with more bumps due to frost heaving), rain and temperatures down towards 0 degrees Celsius (will avoid winter cycling). Any advice? I think I prefer the endurance bikes rather than a gravel. (For the record I’m 28 y/o with a functioning back😅)
Im really keen to get this bike, currently have a tt bike for triathlon but need something for group rides, hill climbs, light gravel, day adventures, etc and I think this fits that pretty well saving garage space and money (prob just going to get one up from the base model).
That Defy looks like a great bike and your arguments make perfect sense to me, an older rider who doesn’t compete. I would say this though, as a fan of your content - most of your road reviews have been for performance bikes and I like the fact that you use the TCR as a comparison point. Would this work if you were comparing an endurance bike?
I bought my TCR after watching a few of your videos... guess I have to go out and buy the new Defy now 😅. For reals though, if my TCR is one of the most comfortable bikes I have owned (having owned two endurance bikes) I can only imagine how comfy that new Defy must be. Worth considering a trade?
To get the better carbon, it appears one needs to get the SRAM Red groupset. One nice thing about Trek, Cervelo, and I suspect others is that one can get the more expensive frame with an Ultegra/Force groupset.
Nice video. I was wondering though whether the impressiveness of Defy is more about "new generation bike beats old generation bike" i.e. once new TCR comes along do you disregard the Defy again. Look forward to your comparison vid!
That's a really good question and one to bear in mind when the new TCR comes along. I think the geometry differences will still stand though, I'm not getting any younger! :(
... I've just checked out the geometry. It is spot on my optimal. This is very refreshing as I'm usually lost between race bike and endurance bike geometries (carbon offerings) with neither suiting what I want. I now need to think about the money. It is so much !
Thanks for this David, I currently have a 2013 defy as a daily and in the process of buying a second bike for big weekend rides. I have been looking at aero bikes on various brands, but as you mentioned for the every day rider these bikes are wasted and not really fit for purpose. I keep coming back to the new Giant defy as most other brands just seem to fall short. Now where where’s my bank card…..?
I will have to vote that you have gone mad. I could hardly afford to ditch my TCR SL to buy Defy SL for the reasons you listed, while I fully agree with you that those are valid considerations. But if you have the means, by all means. ;)
And my 23 Propel Pro 0 is just as comfortable and faster and just as capable as my TCR. Unfortunately the TCR needs a radical update as it’s been left in the shadows by many recent bikes including from its own range
What are your impressions of the Propel? Are you glad you bought it and is it what you expected? Anything you wish was different? I’ve been thinking about purchasing one but still on the fence as I don’t have access to test ride one.
For the average or even the above average rider would you even notice any differences between the 2 models?? I guess you would have to try before you buy or just get both…
Had a defy advanced 2 2020. Lovely bike but a bit boring to ride. Bought a 2015 canyon endurance cf 10 and despite being 5 years older, its a much more fun bike to ride. Im thinking of selling it and getting a tcr but i might regret it.
I can imagine many cyclists would jump at the opportunity to test a bike long term to compare it with their own and make a thoroughly informed decision on which they’d go with. How about it, bike industry?
I can still see the TCR being relevant for those people, judging by some of the comments, don't want aero or endurance. I can imagine they could chase a much lower weight as well, love to see it challenge the Aethos
Totally agree. No proprietary parts and fully external cable / hose routing on the Strael. Good luck to any new Defy owners wanting to optimise their front-end position on a bike fit, or in servicing that headset. Might be heavier than a Defy, but weight concerns are overrated. Strael is way more robust and easier to live with. It's the rider that makes a bike fast, not the frame material.
TCR hasn't changed since 2016, that's 8 years of the same frame plus support for disc brakes. Bikes usually evolve every 3-5 years. The Defy has changed 2 times since 2016 already, 2.5 times if you want to count the cockpit facelift. It hasn't made sense to buy a new TCR since 2020-2022, whenever it was when all Giant did was upgrade the cockpit. The moment the new Propel came out in 2022, TCR was already dead and dated.
This version of the TCR was launched in 2020 for 2021 model year with a few changes over the old model. Probably means another version is due soon and the Defy gives us a clear indication of part of the update we can expect to see
@@davidarthur Yeah but the few changes = seat tube with rubber grommet and a sleeker looking stem and spacers. I've flipped 3 TCRs, 2016, 2018 and 2020. Within 2016-2023, we had the Tarmac SL5, SL6, SL7 and SL8 all having obvious differences from eachother.
David, I cant decide between the Giant TCR, The Propel, and now this? But realistically, between the TCR and the Propel. I want (need) a bike that is a great climber, this I think is my main priority. However, the Propel seems to be a good climber so do I really need the TCR? Also, what about the likelihood of a new TCR coming out soon? Any input you or anyone else can offer would be appreciated.
There are pictures of the 2024 TCR on the aussie giant site, it wont be integrated. There is also no significant weight difference between the tcr and the propel frame, so it will mostly come down to specs. Given that the two bikes almost cost the same, I went with the propel, due to its looks and better paint job at my chosen spec level.
Presumably that's not the new TCR? Odd to have the other 2 integrated, but not the TCR. I have had a Propel Advanced Pro 1 and it's really really nice. Comfy, speedy (despite my best efforts) and makes the woosh sound due to the deep section wheels 👌👌
I've no idea if when a new TCR is coming out but it could be worth waiting unless you're desperate to buy now? If climbing is your main focus the TCR is the obvious choice really, always going to be lighter - unless you're smashing big ring climbs where the aero might help you out
@@davidarthur ,...Thanks for your reply. Interestingly, I do big ring all climbs as I use 1x with a 46-10-36. I am not a spinner and always use big gears to climb and stand up a lot. This is my dilemma, the Propel could be the ticket as is seems like it helps with carrying speed into the climbs. But then again, the lightness of a new TCR and its better climbing prowess might be the ticket. I just cant figure out what is best. Without being able to ever ride any of these bikes it is extremely difficult to make the best decision and why we rely on people like you to help steer us in the right direction. Thanks again.
David...can you tell me the size of your TCR and the size of this Defy? And how did you feel the difference in riding position or was the difference just more upstraight position? I fell in love with Defy Advanced Pro 0, for now just on picture. I have TCR M. Next choice is Propel, but with his sizing chart, I should go S.
They are both size ML with the same saddle height and both have pretty much slammed stems. The Defy position is still pretty aggressive just not as stretched for me but one side benefit is the drops are easier to reach and comfortable for longer
I'm 181cm with inseam of 81.5cm and saddle height of 71.5cm. Probably should go for M due to low saddle height (?) Really curious what Davids' measurements are 😊 Would be supercool if he could tell us!
@@davidarthur oke thanks, I've got short legs and long torso. A giant ml frame would start to look funny with my saddle height. What would be very interesting review is a non pro advanced 2024 defy with similar wheelset and whether or not you can feel the difference in stiffness. Apparently 4% less stiff but wonder if you can feel it. The pr2 wheels these bikes are shipped with are a bit heavy though. And maybe you could do a review on 165mm cranks; has been an " enormous upgrade" for me.
Ordered a Defy Advanced Pro 0 last week. It will be my first disc brake & electronic shifting road bike, can't wait!
Few months on from your comment!👍 How's your experience, with the bike?
I think Giant have nailed it with this bike. Its a proper race bike with a more forgiving geometry which will suit most riders more than a TCR or Propel.
With internal cables too! So beautiful ❤
Yea, but limited to 38mm tires...c'mon man. Give me this spec and up to 45mm. That would be the one bike to rule them all.
If you do not race, the new Defy makes much more sense with space for wider tires. Plus, it is a beautiful bike!
I have a friend who races a 2020 Defy advanced in local crits and he frequents the podium. To each their own 😅
I have the latest TCR and a 2017 Cannondale Synapse which is like the new Defy a more "road performance oriented" endurance bike, usually I choose to race the Synapse, much better on our rough chip roads over longer distances, the TCR pretty much gets used for sprint training.
Honestly, you can’t go wrong with either bike.
You called it! I did exactly this last week! Sold my 2022 TCR Adv SL and replaced it with a 2024 Defy Adv SL. Swapped out the Ultegra Di2 for DA Di2 and the Fondo 32c tires for Conti GP5k TR S in 30mm. Also changed the very nice Fleet SLR saddle for a Cadex AMP. Bike is 7kg now and after my first few rides on it...I'm not missing the TCR at all. Until maybe next year when the superlight TCR gets unveiled.
Nice, that sounds like a really sweet build
@davidarthur my Giant dealer owes you a commission. I bought the bike based on your first ride review video last week.
Giant is killing it lately. Giant saddles are very underrated
I have tried lots of saddles like all of us i guess haha,
And i find that Giant saddle to stay permanently on the bike without any better option out there...
@@ozzz3365 long nose 'approach is my favorite. Have a prologo on my race bike. And its fine for what it is. But the approach saddle is sooo lush. Wouldn't work well on my AR i dont think
Yeh i have the long nose vetsion too. Its fine...
@@ozzz3365 Oz seems cool 😎
Love the integrated light on the saddle. My tcr gets lots of positive comments on this feature.
Giant have done a great job with the new Defy. I think they made good choices between geometry and meeting public wants.
Race bike every day all day and am 50 years old. Tried the aethos and went back to a race bike again. Todays race bikes are very comfortable
What were your overall impressions of the Aethos? Which model did you have?
@@Mububban23 had the Sworks size 54 and two sets of rovals, the deep and shallow. The bike rear end, bottom bracket and chain stays flexes a lot to dampen the ride and sucks all of the power that you might put. The geometry is a race one, that is, while pushing and flexing on the bottom bracket, you will find it hard to reach the handlebar and hence gravitate to the front. I rode for 2 years to fix the geometry flex challenge. And I let on dripping when joining high speed group rides. My numbers were higher on my old argon 18 nitrogen. Bike is crusing around in shallow wheels nothing more. It is just very pricy to what it offers.
I love the new Defy, it’s my favorite new endurance bike of all the ones companies have released recently…
good choice. I love Defys, they're basically race bikes for cobbled/rough roads, i.e. the perfect 'everyday' bike for hard riding.
Hi David, loved the review. Around a year ago bought a 2nd hand 2013 Giant tcr aluminium bike whilst in England! After some upgrades loved the ride quality, and armchair ride compared to my alu Cannondale. So much so went and bought a new carbon Tcr advanced pro disc 2022, around 6 months ago. After group set/wheels and other upgrades. its now my favourite ride. I didn't slam the bars and kept the original height to give me an 'endurance' bike experience. Originally was toying with a Defy but now glad I got the Tcr in its current state, to me the best of both worlds! However, I can see the points you're making regarding the Defy! Keep up the good videos!🙂🙂🙂
Minimum spec was 105 and carbon 42mm wheels, what did you upgrade to?
What did you updgrade on the 2013. I have the same.
Thanks David .
I just put a deposit on a Defy Advanced Pro 0 2024 .
After viewing your review recently on the Willier Grantourismo I started investigating this “endurance” bike segment. It made more sense to me being in my early 50s now . Anyway after looking at the Spec Roubaix I thought this was a less fussy compromise as discussed in your previous video .
After completing a 220 km “around the bay “ ride here this weekend on my 10 year old BMC SLO1 and pulling up with a bruised tail I cannot wait for my new Giant . Thanks again David for this great video . 👍
I think one thing I like about the new Defy, is the 38c tyre clearance. I was looking at a Revolt but wanted something faster as most of my riding is tarmac with an occasional gravel ride locally.
The Defy ticks ALOT of boxes and I think having two sets of tyres, 28c Vittoria Corsa TLR 28's for daily riding and 35c gravelking for gravel rides.
Just put an order in for a 2024 Defy Advanced SL 1 in Golden Haze
Cant wait
3:00 That was me on the left 🙁
I agree with you the new 2024 Defy is a great bike. I used to have a 2023 Defy Advanced 3 with Tiagra groupset. I found this Defy was quite slow and heavy. I swapped my Defy for a 2023 Giant TCR Advanced 1 with Ultegra Groupset and found the bike is much lighter and faster than the Defy. The issue with the TCR is comfort which is lacking a bit. The main issue with the Defy is one must spend a lot of money to get the lighter, faster version, compared to the cheaper Defy range which appears to be heavier and slow.
yup, I think it's worth throwing down for the upper-end Defys, the cheaper ones are dogs.
@@seanmccuen6970 i hate to say it but, i just spent a FORTUNE on a new race bike, and i will never buy from the low end again. But in all honesty TIME bikes have made a big comeback, and i think thats where my next money will go. An ALP, or an ADHX 45. Worth a look before you buy
@seanmccuen6970 what classifies as upper end?
Love your riding & talking bits:) Best part of the video in my opinion David :) Regarding the bike, anyone 35yrs+ will understand what you are trying to say 😅 I am with you on swapping bikes 100% Defy is an excellent compromise.
🙏👍
I gave up my race bike for a Canyon Endurace this summer and wish I had done it way sooner. Comfortable and smooth. Fast enough. Able to ride hard pack trails and light gravel as built. Love the bike and never hesitate going for a ride.
I’ve ordered the new model Endurace CF SLX 8 Aero to replace my previous model Canyon Ultimate which I’ve put more than 30,000km on. I do race the occasional Crit race but mainly it’s week day 50km rides and weekend 75-100km club rides. I figure the Endurace comfort will be better for the long club rides but also I’m not young anymore and my current Ultimate has 25mm of spacers under the stem. The stack height of the new Endurace is 19mm higher than my old Ultimate so if I slam the stem with no spacers on the new Endurace I get a lower effective stack height than my current race Ultimate. But the nice thing about this new Canyon handlebar set up as it is so easy to increase or reduce the stem height without cutting the steerer tube.
The other attraction of the new Endurace over the ultimate is the price. Here in Australia Canyon is charging $2000 extra for exactly the same component spec that is DT Swiss 1400 wheels with 240 hubs on both (except the ultimate of 50 mm deep and the Endurace 35mm deep, which is less error, but more practical and lighter wheels), and the same Ultegra Di2 12 speed, the same adjustable aero cockpit. Spec for spec, they are effectively the same bike with a different geometry, but the Endurace is $2,000 cheaper 🤷♂️
The defy is stunning but I have zero issues with my tcr comfort wise and that’s with 25mm tyres next set will be 28
I built up a Grail CF SLX frame into a road bike during the start of the pandemic. I did a detailed study on the geometry and found the frame size that was close to my 09 madone. With wide tubeless wheels and a Red AXS groupset, The bike is fast and comfortable. I could put gravel tires on it, but I would use it only on light gravel as the body position is still very much race oriented. I really like the split rail seat post, even on the road. Sounds like the Defy is similar to my build.
I thought we all will arrive to the endurance category some day. But not so soon!
46 y/o I still have few more years for that..
But in general, you are right.
The fact that %50 of the time my hands on t o p of the handle bar of my TCR definitely shows my back is ready for the defy...
But not yet! 😅
Nothing wrong with admitting it's time for a change. But yeah the point about spending most of your time on the tops is kinda revealing
Might sell my Tarmac SL6 for the new Defy! As David said; a perfect “racer zero”.
The bike looks awesome too. Really fast and hardly any different than a TCR! For sure not an old man’s bike.
I’m 54 and don’t race, but to me the fun of riding road is the speed. I personally don’t like an “endurance” bike. I have an endurance based frame that I moved my components onto and rode it for a couple months. Never was satisfied with it. It was sluggish and less responsive. Yes it was comfortable.
You are not mad. Same situation and looking at an endurance bike for my next ride.
Can't wait for your shoot out. Hint Canyon, Giant, BMC, Trek
Just bought a used 2022 Defy Advanced, and I have to say, I'm absolutely loving it. This is my third bike, my first was a 2021 Cannondale Caad Optimo 3, then a 2022 Orbea Avant H40-D, and now this Defy Advanced 3.
First off, the design of the bike looks great, and the colour is amazing (looks like a red ruby to me). The bike is so confortable, even with all the stock accessories. When I went from my Cannondale to the Orbea, I thought I felt like it was in another league confort-wise. But this Defy is just amazing. It feels much stiffer and faster than my Orbea as well, even though the groupset is the same (Shimano Tiagra 10 sp).
The only thing I don't like about my Defy as of now is the fact that the cables aren't fully integrated like the newer model. But seeing as I got this one for half the price of a brand new one, I can't complain !
It's as simple as this why many bike reviewers are switching from aero to lightweight/endurance bikes.
We are getting old and we are all about comfort over performance. Let's not lie to ourselves.
The moment I bought my Émonda SL5 for climbing and comfort at 38, I didn't look back.
The important thing is to love biking and being able to do so.
Keep on riding everyone. Whether a beach cruiser or a TT bike and everything in-between.
I swapped from specialized tarmac 2015 to a 2018 (I think) defy carbon. Both 105 and full carbon. Immediately was far slower on the defy, upgraded the wheels to hunts, changed the brakes to hydraulic, still slower. Mistake for me. Cheaper Felt F4 (lighter) immediately quicker again. Really wanted to like the defy
It makes me sad to see the TCR go because my very own TCR is very similar to David's. With many components choices following the same principals. Still a great bike for me, and I don't need a new one every year as I don't need to produce content or review bikes.
Yea I want one. Advanced pro 1 with integrated cockpit, carbon wheels and di2 for 5K. I'll take it and keep my caad10 for winter and short fast rides.
Hey David, thanks! Looking forward to the group test
Well, Thank you David!! This throws a spanner in the works. As an additional bike to my performance gravel bike I was thinking of an Aero Bike and managed to try out the new Scott Foil which blew me away with it's speed and comfort. Now I'm thinking would an endurance bike be better?! They are certainly cheaper and lighter.
Scott foil is a perfect racing machine.
The Defy is more comfortable. The head tube is longer makes your back more relax. The wheelbase is longer makes the bike more stable. The handling should be less aggressive.
The big question is if you prefer little bet more comfort
Or you you prefer less comfort for total race feeling...
The mother of all questions...
No you will be selling it for the new TCR when that comes out some time next year! 😉
Great video by the way!
If Giant would give David a dollar per mention of the word "teeecee-aaar", he would have a garage full of Defy's! Lovely review, keep up the great work.
I've been riding my 2013 Defy for 10 years. I keep thinking I "should" upgrade. Almost everyone on my group rides is now on racing machines with disc brakes, e-shifting, internal cables, etc. Thing is, my Defy has no trouble keeping up so I haven't been able to justify an "upgrade." You've got me thinking I should just get a new Defy.
A comparable Defy with Shimano 105 Di2 is US$1K more than the TCR. Also I question the need for 34x36 gearing on a road bike. I swapped out my 11-34 105 cassette for a 11-30 ultegra cassette on my 2023 TCR cause I just had no need for 34x34 gearing. I run Schwalbe Pro One 30mm tubeless at 50 psi on my TCR SLR1 carbon wheels.
But the roubaix can be the quiver killer. I don’t know if I was lucky, I got the Cervelo aspero (not the 5) during the “shortage” after the checkpoint wasn’t delivered. I need only 1 bike, so it kinda needs to do both road and gravel(not crazy gravel)
I've got a 10 year old Roubaix sl3. It's so controlled and so smooth to ride. Other bike is a de rosa King 3 similar vintage on which I've swapped out nearly everything and while quick and a good climber is nowhere near as comfy or stable. Just swapped out handlebars for carbon Aero. Hoping that will make it rideable. Only downside to the s works is inability for good climbing gear without dropping big money
Bike fitters have been preaching this for years. If you're not racing DON'T buy a race bike.
I’m saving up for a new Giant Defy however I’m still happy with my 2004 OCR-2
I have the DEFY ADVANCED PRO 2 on order can't wait for it to arrive going to be a long month's wait as they have no stock in the UK at the moment.😢
Think the Defy Advanced 1 is the sweet spot of the range.... seriously tempted 🤔
You will probably need to buy another set of lightweight wheels though. And if you add up these costs you can just as well buy the advanced Pro 😊
Bike dilemma David. You have posted yet another fab video that has made my bike choice harder. Fairlight Strael or Giant Defy? Assuming similar cost? I need to replace my old trek with something a bit more modern! I’m getting older and don’t race but love speed! Help!
i have a 20222 defy advanced pro 2. Love it and its fast (just heavy at about 8.5kg). But ill just loose more weight (hopefully!).
Great review of what seems like a great bike! How does this compare to the Domane?
I’m new to cycling and I’m on the lookout for an endurance bike which can handle norwegian roads (not unlike the path you were on, but with more bumps due to frost heaving), rain and temperatures down towards 0 degrees Celsius (will avoid winter cycling). Any advice? I think I prefer the endurance bikes rather than a gravel. (For the record I’m 28 y/o with a functioning back😅)
The Domane is a lot heavier and more expensive me thinks.
Definitely prefer the cleaner look of the TCR frame. Nice colour too. But yes, Defy is probably the better allround bike for the most of us.
Ok but you compare à 12k€ with your TCR which is cheaper
Can’t beat a GIANT. Great review, thank you.
The Tcr is a much nicer looking bike, especially with the deep section wheels, and we all know looks are what is most important ☺
Both look great.
Im really keen to get this bike, currently have a tt bike for triathlon but need something for group rides, hill climbs, light gravel, day adventures, etc and I think this fits that pretty well saving garage space and money (prob just going to get one up from the base model).
That Defy looks like a great bike and your arguments make perfect sense to me, an older rider who doesn’t compete.
I would say this though, as a fan of your content - most of your road reviews have been for performance bikes and I like the fact that you use the TCR as a comparison point. Would this work if you were comparing an endurance bike?
Keep them both. Defy for long rides, Tcr for short aggro rides. You'll miss the handling you wont get from the defy, and maybe raise the stem 10mm
I bought my TCR after watching a few of your videos... guess I have to go out and buy the new Defy now 😅. For reals though, if my TCR is one of the most comfortable bikes I have owned (having owned two endurance bikes) I can only imagine how comfy that new Defy must be. Worth considering a trade?
Hi David, When are you going to publish your "first ride" on the Defy Adv Pro 2024? Your reviews are excellent. Thanks, Eddie
Plan is for the new year after riding it over the next couple of weeks
Every week there is new bike review…a lot of work
Will you test the new Argon 18 Krypton Pro? Also an endurance bike with space for 40mm tires but with a T47, 3rd bottle mount and downtube storage.
So, basically Giant ‘invented’ the classic road race geometry of bikes from the 1980s. Not a bad thing.
To get the better carbon, it appears one needs to get the SRAM Red groupset. One nice thing about Trek, Cervelo, and I suspect others is that one can get the more expensive frame with an Ultegra/Force groupset.
There is an Advanced SL 1 version running Ultegra DI2.
Surprised you haven’t compared the Enve Fray vs. Giant Defy SL
Nice video. I was wondering though whether the impressiveness of Defy is more about "new generation bike beats old generation bike" i.e. once new TCR comes along do you disregard the Defy again. Look forward to your comparison vid!
That's a really good question and one to bear in mind when the new TCR comes along. I think the geometry differences will still stand though, I'm not getting any younger! :(
... I've just checked out the geometry. It is spot on my optimal. This is very refreshing as I'm usually lost between race bike and endurance bike geometries (carbon offerings) with neither suiting what I want. I now need to think about the money. It is so much !
The video title says "Defy Advanced Pro" but the bike ridden is the SL.
Do you have plans to ride and review the Advances Pro?
Oops my mistake! Yes hope to get on a mid-range Defy as soon as I can
@@davidarthur looking forward to it. Thanks
That TCR needs an integrated full internal cable routing handlebar. Just saying!
David no costings what the bike starts at and go up to. Looks great.
Thanks for this David, I currently have a 2013 defy as a daily and in the process of buying a second bike for big weekend rides. I have been looking at aero bikes on various brands, but as you mentioned for the every day rider these bikes are wasted and not really fit for purpose. I keep coming back to the new Giant defy as most other brands just seem to fall short. Now where where’s my bank card…..?
I will have to vote that you have gone mad. I could hardly afford to ditch my TCR SL to buy Defy SL for the reasons you listed, while I fully agree with you that those are valid considerations. But if you have the means, by all means. ;)
The Defy is the perfect bike looks great.
I bought a defy advanced 105 di2 and found out the rear wheel is a couple degrees out of alignment. Not even 2 weeks old going in for warranty.
Also what about the melee ? It seems to be just the good bike aero/endurance bike with good tyre clearance ? Maybe a little bit heavier
Melee rides great 32s 50 psi
And my 23 Propel Pro 0 is just as comfortable and faster and just as capable as my TCR. Unfortunately the TCR needs a radical update as it’s been left in the shadows by many recent bikes including from its own range
What are your impressions of the Propel? Are you glad you bought it and is it what you expected? Anything you wish was different? I’ve been thinking about purchasing one but still on the fence as I don’t have access to test ride one.
For the average or even the above average rider would you even notice any differences between the 2 models?? I guess you would have to try before you buy or just get both…
Thinking of selling my Canyon Endurace SL 8.0 for the Devy Advanced Pro
David. Have you done an update on the Shimano crank set recall? I was not ware of it until a random video popped up on my home screen.
Ouch my legs on that climb. One more gear, just one more gear…
It's a killer!
David, what will you do when the 2025 TCR with internal cable and more compliance launches early next year?
Thanks for the review!
Looking at a custom Ti bike or a Giant Defy.... Great review
Had a defy advanced 2 2020. Lovely bike but a bit boring to ride. Bought a 2015 canyon endurance cf 10 and despite being 5 years older, its a much more fun bike to ride.
Im thinking of selling it and getting a tcr but i might regret it.
What's that bike stand? Looks great
I can imagine many cyclists would jump at the opportunity to test a bike long term to compare it with their own and make a thoroughly informed decision on which they’d go with. How about it, bike industry?
Agree - I’m in Sydney and I’m my size it’s not possible to test ride a bike that you’re spending $8000+ it’s outrageous
Hi David how does the Defy compare to your specialized crux?
is this the end of the TCR? Propel is more of an all rounder race bike and Revolt is all surface - hard to contemplate but would make sense?
I can still see the TCR being relevant for those people, judging by some of the comments, don't want aero or endurance. I can imagine they could chase a much lower weight as well, love to see it challenge the Aethos
I would argue that the Fairlight Strael is an even better option 😋
you'd lose that argument.
Totally agree. No proprietary parts and fully external cable / hose routing on the Strael. Good luck to any new Defy owners wanting to optimise their front-end position on a bike fit, or in servicing that headset. Might be heavier than a Defy, but weight concerns are overrated. Strael is way more robust and easier to live with. It's the rider that makes a bike fast, not the frame material.
What color is the 2024 Defy you are riding in this video? The Blue Dragonfly or the Digital Blurple ?
I cant wait until i get my giant advance pro 0.
What do you think is better, this giant defy or pinarello x?
Defy Advanced with Shimano 105 review?
Would be ok if not for the proprietary parts and fully integrated cable / hose routing.
What chainring is on your tcr in this video. See its no longer the force.
Giant has also become super expensive 😞
How does this compare to your steel gravel bike?
What happened with your Colnago C68?
TCR hasn't changed since 2016, that's 8 years of the same frame plus support for disc brakes. Bikes usually evolve every 3-5 years. The Defy has changed 2 times since 2016 already, 2.5 times if you want to count the cockpit facelift. It hasn't made sense to buy a new TCR since 2020-2022, whenever it was when all Giant did was upgrade the cockpit. The moment the new Propel came out in 2022, TCR was already dead and dated.
This version of the TCR was launched in 2020 for 2021 model year with a few changes over the old model. Probably means another version is due soon and the Defy gives us a clear indication of part of the update we can expect to see
@@davidarthur Yeah but the few changes = seat tube with rubber grommet and a sleeker looking stem and spacers. I've flipped 3 TCRs, 2016, 2018 and 2020. Within 2016-2023, we had the Tarmac SL5, SL6, SL7 and SL8 all having obvious differences from eachother.
Dave r u riding this bike I'm thinking of getting a defy but don't want something that going to make it harder up hills and get dropped by friends
Dave tcr with aethos smooth Or melee These bikes all ride very nice?
David, I cant decide between the Giant TCR, The Propel, and now this? But realistically, between the TCR and the Propel. I want (need) a bike that is a great climber, this I think is my main priority. However, the Propel seems to be a good climber so do I really need the TCR? Also, what about the likelihood of a new TCR coming out soon?
Any input you or anyone else can offer would be appreciated.
There are pictures of the 2024 TCR on the aussie giant site, it wont be integrated. There is also no significant weight difference between the tcr and the propel frame, so it will mostly come down to specs. Given that the two bikes almost cost the same, I went with the propel, due to its looks and better paint job at my chosen spec level.
Presumably that's not the new TCR? Odd to have the other 2 integrated, but not the TCR.
I have had a Propel Advanced Pro 1 and it's really really nice. Comfy, speedy (despite my best efforts) and makes the woosh sound due to the deep section wheels 👌👌
I've no idea if when a new TCR is coming out but it could be worth waiting unless you're desperate to buy now? If climbing is your main focus the TCR is the obvious choice really, always going to be lighter - unless you're smashing big ring climbs where the aero might help you out
@@theflyingmozart ,..Thanks for your reply. So, what do you think of the Propel? How does it climb?
@@davidarthur ,...Thanks for your reply. Interestingly, I do big ring all climbs as I use 1x with a 46-10-36. I am not a spinner and always use big gears to climb and stand up a lot. This is my dilemma, the Propel could be the ticket as is seems like it helps with carrying speed into the climbs. But then again, the lightness of a new TCR and its better climbing prowess might be the ticket. I just cant figure out what is best. Without being able to ever ride any of these bikes it is extremely difficult to make the best decision and why we rely on people like you to help steer us in the right direction.
Thanks again.
Does it come with a mount for Wahoo?
Press fit bottom bracket is a big negative for me.
Change my mind.
These Giant bottom brackets never go wrong. There you go
David...can you tell me the size of your TCR and the size of this Defy? And how did you feel the difference in riding position or was the difference just more upstraight position? I fell in love with Defy Advanced Pro 0, for now just on picture. I have TCR M. Next choice is Propel, but with his sizing chart, I should go S.
They are both size ML with the same saddle height and both have pretty much slammed stems. The Defy position is still pretty aggressive just not as stretched for me but one side benefit is the drops are easier to reach and comfortable for longer
@@davidarthur how tall are u? inseam? not sure to get M or ML
I'm 181cm with inseam of 81.5cm and saddle height of 71.5cm. Probably should go for M due to low saddle height (?)
Really curious what Davids' measurements are 😊 Would be supercool if he could tell us!
@@Pompdiepom I'm also 181cm with saddle height of 76cm, not sure what my inseam is off the top of my head
@@davidarthur oke thanks, I've got short legs and long torso. A giant ml frame would start to look funny with my saddle height.
What would be very interesting review is a non pro advanced 2024 defy with similar wheelset and whether or not you can feel the difference in stiffness. Apparently 4% less stiff but wonder if you can feel it. The pr2 wheels these bikes are shipped with are a bit heavy though.
And maybe you could do a review on 165mm cranks; has been an " enormous upgrade" for me.
Why no Dura Ace?
Instead of Endurance Bike...... maybe call them Race Bike XR (eXtended Range)....
Yes I like that
Makes perfect sense to me
Call it a “ Up country” 😁