*Works great my **Latest.Bike** I have a bad knee so I still get exercise but the bike assists me. I am a big guy so I didn’t think it would go as fast but it works great.*
I’ll be honest. I considered the giant TCR. It’s an amazing bike and would definitely not hold me back, but I ended up building up an SL7 S works frame set and building it myself because this was my mid life crisis 40th birthday present to self and I just think it looks nicer. Either way I’m riding more and enjoying it. Well aware the Giant is a better value, but I wanted to treat myself, which I hardly ever do. I went 12 years with my old bike before building the SL7.
Yoooooo I'm actually doing the same thing!! 40th coming at the end of the month and my Tarmac SL7 is just about ready. Not the Sworks though but the white with snake eyes.
@@JFomo enjoy it! There are so many worse things we could be spending money on. You really just have to tune out the shit talking “dentist” comments from folks who don’t have them. I’m just a single dude with no kids who is fairly frugal with everything else. 😂 It’s an amazing bike. It was super easy to build up as well. Specialized gets a lot of hate because they do pull some BS, but the SL7 is fucking dope. Simple as that.
The tcr coming within 2 points for less than 50% of the sl7 price makes it a win automatically. Take a couple grand and upgrade to di2 and better wheels and then It's easily ahead.
Can't compare a 2 point difference with a price category included, should see it more like a $9000 44/60 SL7 and a $4000 36/60 TCR. I wouldn't mind getting 80% of the bike for 45% of the price.
Also don't think the TCR's wheels are 62.5% worse, or that the bike is over 50% worse in terms of speed. Much exaggerated claims by NorCal, quite disappointed by the biased ratings.
@@brysonszy6306 The ratings are all in the category of top tier performance bikes. The TCR got a 8/10 for price despite being $4.000. That's super expensive for a bike in most contexts but relatively reasonably in the category.
Merida own 49% share of Specialized. Majority of Specialized should be made by Merida. Merida is 2nd largest bike manufaturer in Taiwan. I think both Giant & Merida offer good bike with similar level of quality control.
Both are of course very capable bikes. I'd take the Giant TCR Advanced Pro any day over a Specialized SL7, much more bike for the money. In fact I bought a Giant TCR myself with the worst wheels possible (their PR-2 wheelset) and Ultegra DI2, then bought a very good wheelset and put latex tubes and Conti GP 5000 on the wheels, and it's more than enough. Future upgrade will be the bars.
Another key point: as much as I want to like an American bike company, but Specialized isn't nice to small dealers. Giant, on the other hand, is a great company for helping out small dealers.
My wife surprised me with a new Bianchi a couple years back (blessing and a curse). I love it, and her for it of course...and it's such a beautiful bike, but the thing's an absolute tank, and not the bike I had my heart set on. I really wanted the TCR because it's actually obtainable......but when you wife buys you a new bike, the curse is that you're stuck with it....for a very very long time. The TCR Advanced Disc 0 was what I really wanted.
Speed rating is really off… these cables are maybe 3-4 watts… in fact, TCR with di2 is 0.5 watts off SL7…. So speed wise it’s not really a 4/10 vs 8/10 at all… more like 6/10 for TCR with mechanical.. imo :)
What makes me cringe is having to listen weekend wannabe pro cyclists talking about how front cables affect their performance when they're doing sprints at their toy story amateur crits. The bright side is that at least you have something to put the blame on why you came second.
Correct, the advanced pro disc 1, with ultegra mech, gets the SLR1 42mm deep wheels. They weigh the same as zipp404s, but arent as wide. Also, the PRO versions gets the wider steerer tube at the top so the Zipp stems wont fit. Jeff doesn't have a pro 1 version.
Regarding any aerodynamic drag of the external cables, it’s true that a cylinder shape generally has more drag compared to a foil. However, diameter is a factor. The relatively small diameter of the cable results in negligible increase in drag.
I don’t understand the speed scale your using. A 4/10 in speed for a $4000 bike and the SL7 with a 9/10 and costs $9000 must be coincidence for the price. Giant describes the TCR as: Advanced aerodynamics This is where the TCR’s most quantifiable gains can be found compared to previous generation models. Every tube shape was analyzed, engineered and tested to create an overall structure with significantly lower drag at a wider range of yaw angles. But you’re saying that cables make it so slow that it gets a 4/10?
He mentions the airfoil design is "cylindrical" it's less aerodynamics. Very hard statement to provide given he has no empirical data as proof the SL7 airfoil shape is LESS efficient than the TCR airfoil in an IDEAL condition let alone real world condition.
9000 dollars in my area can literally buy the top spec TCR (10000 MSRP with 10% discount). Cadex wheels, Dura ace electronic hydraulic discs, way better spec than the tarmac what so ever.
When I looked up the official specs on the wheels, the Giant wheels are listed as only 30g heavier, and 8mm less deep. Personally I'd prefer the Specialized wheels for the width and the hubs, but based on the features actually discussed in the video, the specs seem a lot closer than the description would suggest.
For non-racers which is 90% of the riding population-TCR, but for the pro/1/2 peloton , or criters SL7. Edit: Michael Mathew’s just won Stage 14 (Tdf) against cream of the crop climbers and punchers on a giant TCR SL.
Let’s be honest, specialized is more of a marketing company than it is a bike company. That’s from someone who owns two tarmacs including an sl7. My next bike will be a giant.
The new 2023 Giant Propel being ridden in the Tour De France right now looks like a great bike. I’m not a fan of the current version though. Can’t say I would choose a TCR over the Tarmac, but I would choose the next Propel over the Tarmac. I wish Specialized would have kept the Venge in the lineup… but it probably made sense from a business and manufacturing/perspective to just make the Tarmac a bit more aero and and stop offering the Venge.
If you throw a sram force etap axs on the TCR and use a RED 50/37 chainring up front, you would eliminate 2 out of 4 cables in the wind, maintain the easy to work on benefits, have electronic shifting, faster crit speed and have the TCR score above 50 points. I built my tcr up with zipp303 wheels, force axs completely - works like a dream and solves some issues you are having. built came in at 4200€ 7,0kg weight
11,000 miles (17,600 km) in one year....Whoa... mad respect man!!! Can you share some info on training plan (which zones, how much intensity? base, polarized, what not) and also some off bike work that you did earlier on and what you do to maintain those gains and diet info? Would be really helpful for amateur cyclists like me.
Thanks for a great post Jeff...as always👌A few things I don't get though. For all your ability, the level you compete at, the training you put in and the amount of competing you do, I really dont understand why you were given a 1x Rival SL7 last year (expensive commuter/gravel setup) and then a stock mechanical ultegra giant (enthusiast level weekend rider) as a team bike for a National Cat1 title contender??? Dont'get me wrong, I love to see you mixing it up and performing on upper/mid level equipment and showing its not all about the bike, but surely for all the efforts you, your team and your sponsors go to to get the whole team competing at the level you do, you are surely worthy of top level componentry commensurate with the riding you are doing. Forgive me if I speak out of turn here for I'm not familiar with the budget of Team Mikes Bikes, but It seems as if your equipment is provided as a token gesture by sponsors indifferent to the technical requirements of Crit racing and is focused on attendance rather than competion...which is certainly not the philosphy I pick up from you! Anyways, best of luck, love your work, love the NorCal channel.
Nice comparison! I bought the exact same bike (Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1) last year, but mine came with the SRL-1 wheelset instead of SLR-2 and a dual-sided power meter as well. The SRL-1 wheels are pretty light in my opinion in comparison with other major brands with a similar rim profile.
$4000 vs $9000 - on that alone, Giant wins. You could upgrade everything to beyond the Spesh and still be cheaper, with two sets of wheels, powermeter, and have enough left over for a aero helmet, shoes, and new kit!- which would give you much more gains than any bike frame... and you would still have money left over for race entry fees and gas $!!! The weight has more to do with the components. TCR can well be light as or lighter than the Tarmac.
Uhhh, what? If you want to go “beyond” then you’d be looking at $2700 for a SRAM RED AXS groupset and ~$2000-2500 for a wheel set, which puts you right about $9k without including tires, a power meter, handlebar, or stem, let alone any of the other things you mentioned.
Hey Jeff, I appreciate you coming up with a final score and giving your personal input/opinion - especially since the easy answer would be to say you like the free bike you're on right now. But my question to you is, since you had to make more upgrades to the Giant to get it to your liking, what were the final weights and prices "all in" for the two bikes when all said and done? Starting with a $4k bike but spending 3 or 4 grand to upgrade is a tough pill to swallow.
it's a personal choice what you want to upgrade, but my wheels/cockpit probably like $2-2.5k. I still don't think it's on the level of the spec but honestly splitting hairs at that point, and it's still 2.5k cheaper.
@@NorCalCycling Did you also upgrade some parts to DuraAce like the chain ring? I think it would only be a fair comparison of what you're actually riding vs what you used to ride. It says something about the stock setup when you end up with some many upgrades
You posting this now was perfect timing. I’m looking to replace my 2009 Trek Madone and hadn’t even considered the Giant. Definitely going to check it out. I’m a MTB racer who rides road maybe once a week so it sounds like a good fit for me.
I want the one with the creaky seatpost because it looks so good. And with 60 mm sails on both ends because those watts are so important to us non pros. I'll gladly risk it for 0 rewards. Stop slagging mechanical shifting. It works fine properly set up. Ive never had a cable stretch that required any re-adjustment.
Speed is 4/10 vs 9/10? Lol 😂 how many watts do those cables lose for Giant to have half the points? Drivetrain is also double the points for the Specialized? Ok, i can't take this video seriously at all 😂
0:17 Is there any reference to Counter Strike here ? Or is it only the video editor choice for the smoke sound effect ahah ! It would be nice if you play CS ;) (a bit out of the main subject ahah)
Jeff, it's just us, we've known each other for a long youtube time now. So you can say it, we won't mind. You'd much rather have a Propel to compare things with, we understand. (Also a message to Specialized : Guys, what were you thinking ? Enough with being silly, it was fun for a year or 2, we all laughed ahah, but now come to your senses and bring back the Venge, will ya?)
Someone has been spoilt by electronic shifting 😂 but yeah electronic is great for racing with. Giant bikes are great value and the specialized being 1x is so weird. Why would they do that on a race bike?
For what it’s worth, running 1x is relative and can be amazing depending on where you live. I used to live in WI and most of the riding I’d do was relatively flat with some rolling hills; did plenty of fast group rides/races and had no problems with gearing, saved a little weight with no FD, and overall just less parts/maintenance to do. Fast forward and now I live in CO and I switched to 2x immediately once I moved :)
The smallest gear on the 1x build is actually a lower ratio than the smallest gear on the Giant in this video. 46/36 = 1.27:1, 39/28 = 1.39:1. The biggest gear on the 1x is slightly smaller, but if you’re spinning out 53/11 on a flat crit course you should probably be a World Tour pro. Add to that, there are usually only 14 distinct gear ratios in a 2x11 drivetrain, so with a properly spaced cassette that places the gaps in the bigger cogs where it is much less noticeable, you don’t lose much. Riders win gravel events on 1x drivetrains with massive gaps all the time, and tbh I’d rather not have to think about front derailleur shifts in a crit anyway.
4:03 He says "I don't think the speed difference in these two bikes is super obvious" then goes on about you wouldn't hop on the specialized and feel faster....then he rates the Giant a 4/10 and the Specialized a 9/10. How bizarre.
my point is, you wont get on the spec and immediately feel the difference in speed, but plop those bikes in a wind tunnel and i'm willing to bet the spec is faster. the Giant has external cables, non aero tube sections, and a non integrated cockpit. it's not huge, and things like body position, strategy, nutrition and training are all more important especially if you're new to the sport.
@@NorCalCycling regarding speed/aero difference are you able to compare the bike in the specialized Win Tunnel? Track down a buddy with an SL7 if required haha
@@NorCalCycling I am sure the Specialized probably is marginally faster. Given you would need a wind tunnel to detect the difference I was just amazed by the difference in rating. If we were talking 4/10 vs 4.5/10 for those marginal gains then I would not disagree.
@@aedsywind tunel data give us nothing what is happened in real world riding. There is practically zero differences for this two bikes when same handlebar and wheels are same on this two bikes.
Imagine comparing a bike with electric gears and one with mechanical ones that’s far cheaper. Also those wheels are epic for the price- sub 1500g and mid depth all round race wheels are FANTASTIC. I can’t actually believe this review- absolutely tragic. Wind tunnel testing would suggest they’re almost identical in terms of aerodynamics
Swap your group set for a mechanical axs groupset, convenience on brakes, clean set up and swap those wheels with cadex. I run that set up on my TCR adv sl 0, I hit 15.2lb on a size large L much faster too with normal convenience for maintenance.
This might be way off topic, but I have addressed this comparison at the bottom of the spectrum. The entry level Tarmac and TCR 105 level. I’ve had both and both come with crap wheels. I’d like to see a review on these. For me, it’s the TCR. It’s definitely lighter. Both are great
The convenience factor of external cable routing is exaggerated imo. People don’t change their stem height that often and some bike boxes nowadays allow you to pack your bike without removing the handlebar. By the way, the new Propel looks super good, I hope you’ll get to try it when it comes out.
Hey Jeff, nice video, as a Sur American our most important category is "convinience" hahah, I got a 2022 propel, Giant fan here, and happy that you got that TCR, next time you can add a new category "Looks" or "Style" in which I will rate the TCR 10/10 with that slim shape and high profile wheels, un saludo desde Colombia! 🥰🥰
Lol, in a sprint @ 40mph the fist thing to disturb the air is your body going crazy, the cables are not even in the same post code aero-wise. I expect more from you mate.
Jeff, I have to apologize for ever doubting you man. I thought for sure this was just going to be sort of an ad for your new bike sponsor, and that you would only have great things to say about your new bike. I should have known better. You gave a brutally honest opinion about both bikes. Kudos to you and again, sorry for doubting you.
aero is complicated. sure, round cables are not aero, but they are also creating disrupted air for the head tube to move through. Trek basically admitted to some of the aero BS manufacturers engage in with their new Madone. they admitted that non-aero bars have higher drag, but they create disturbed air for the massive carbon windbag behind them, so system drag is barely increased. ultimately, if you get your body position optimized because it is easier to do with external cables versus integrated, you will have a more aero total package. integrated cables look fast, though, and that counts for something.
agreed, body position outweighs any equipment modification when it comes to aerodynamics. I tested this in the the wind tunnel in a couple vids on my channel.
I see your point as team bikes, but if you were self-financing the equipment would you still rather spend $9200 on the tarmac switched to 2x than $5500 for TCR with winspace, and gp5000s?
I’ll buy the tarmac if I liked it more, especially so if self-financed, since we aren’t restricted to whatever the team wants us to ride. That’s the nice thing about a casual weekend cyclist. You can buy whatever bike you want because you don’t have to care about what the sponsor or some silly race result might say.
To fairly compare TCR and SL7 Pro, you should normalize the difference in cost between the TCR ($4K) and SL7 ($9K). Put $5K of upgrades towards the TCR. Now who wins?
The TCR is my absolute dream bike! The Orca Aero and CAAD13 are also some favorites of mine. I’m curious to know if you’ve ever been on either of these, and if you’d recommend either of them over a more racing/criterium-oriented bike? Edit: I’m just a casual to intermediate level road cyclist, but I’m hoping to also get a bike that can be competitive in a race, as you have inspired me to get into racing!
Why would you bother with racing? It’s a complete waste of time for anyone who aspires to actually own their bike, rather than be made to ride a bike they don’t own.
I got elitewheels ent rim brake wheels for $378 during prime day. 50mm deep, weigh less than 1500g, why spend more than $378 for a nice set of carbon wheels?
The aerodynamic disadvantage of the exposed cables is highly debatable. They are most likely already in turbulant air from the wheels. The wheels are the first thing hiting the air. Otherwise great video.
on the topic of 1x chainsets, jumbo visma absolutely crushing this year on their 1x Cervelo S5s both Roglic and Vingegaard taking huge wins so the proof is absolutely in the pudding now, willing to bet Jumbo is running 1x at TDF in more stages than one
I'd say the Canyon Aeroad is by far the best bang for your buck race bike at the moment. Comes with a 58/62mm aero wheelset and 105 groupset for 3500 euros, or Ultegra for 300 bucks more.
I believe it's been wind tunnel proven that 40-50mm depth was best in average conditions. Unless you're in a controlled environment (no wind or indoor track), you wouldn't want any more depth than that. Also, the small gain in weight on a aero wheel is worth the gains aerodynamically. How many 80mm wheels do you see racing in the Tour?
I’m in France and I got the TCR pro disc 1. SRL 1 wheels, power metre and mechanical ultegra for €3750. SL7 was €5500 no power metre and €40 alloy wheels. So obviously brought the TCR! But if I already had a decent pair of wheels I may have thought more about the SL7. As for external cables, pros still have external cables so if it was that big a deal then they wouldn’t do it! You save a watt or 2 max.
Thanks! I would love to see a head to head constant power time trial like you did with the SL6 v SL7. I guess you’d need to use the sworks bike since the old team bike is gone.
Both bikes are amazing..I own both(2021 tarmac s-works SL7 build w 12 speed di2) and the (TCR advanced pro with sram red)...i prefer the TCR when it comes to price straight from the company(more bang for your buck)and I prefer the SL7 s-works tarmac due to performance because it's slightly faster and more nimble to me..I think people get mad at specialized prices more than their performance..I find my Sl7 equipped with the shimano di2 12 speed slightly lighter and faster than my TCR equipped with sram red..I have no loyalty to a brand and I think it all comes down to preference..its the same as xbox vs playstation and coke vs Pepsi in the 80s...lol..you can always swap drive trains, add light carbon wheels, etc to make a bike lighter..thats why I own both.
TCR has a proprietary seatpost, right? As well as proprietary steerer spacers. After having a specialized with the SCS hub spacing, I’m am completely out on proprietary stuff.
I've seen this video a couple of times and find it to be the best comparison between these two bikes. Something to keep in mind. The comparison is for 4k vs 9k bike. The gap there is huge, and the end results were very close. U spend 4k in a tcr put in 3-4k in upgrades would u say tcr would surpass tarmac?
Hey Jeff. I have a 2021 TCR advanced Pro Disc 1. The ultegra mechanical version like yours. If you had the SLR1 wheels that come on the PRO version, they weigh the same as Zipp 404s (~1450g and not as wide, yes) Your bike is fitted there with the SLR2 wheelset. (~1550g) Also, if you had the PRO version, the Overdrive steerer would be too wide for your Zipp stem there, at least I'm pretty sure. I conclude you have the TCR advanced 1. Not the advanced PRO. I too wish you still had that sweet sweet S works.....
Thanks for posting, I've enjoyed watching many of your crit action videos. I have a dumb question; is there a reason your sponsors didn't offer the propel? I would have thought they would have given a Cat I crit rider their most aero offering. IMO, it's hard to find anyone who feels the SL7's are fairly priced, and maybe only a comparison to Pinarello makes them appear reasonably priced, but you also rarely hear from riders who don't like the SL7 that they already have. I thought you had a top end SL7 before the white one, but maybe that was a venge; I honestly can't remember.
Got an orba orca M20, ultegra mechanical, disc brakes and integrated cables for 3400 dollars. Weighs 19 pounds. Great value. You can also lower the stem to your needs. I will upgrade the wheels though and put a carbon ergo handlebar. Will be close to 18 pounds for about 4300 dollars with the upgrade. Personally I find ultegra mechanical the sweetspot. Everything di2 is just that much pricier and the money is better spent elsewhere.
win tunnel says exposed cables only adds 12 seconds in 40km race, its something but certainly not enough to care... for me anyways : / . All the extra hassle of dealing with those internal cables is a complete pita, only worth it for top level riders who don't pay for the bike and have a mechanic to deal with all the BS haha
Good run-down of the two bikes Not sure why you gave such high marks to the Specialized drive train given you had to upgrade the front chain ring (did that require a new spider or just addition of a chain ring?). Also, your upgrades (wheels, bar, stem) on the Giant added what, $2K or more to the cost of the thing? so you've got $8K vs $6K. For amateurs, cost is always the thing driving self-fuded equipment. Maybe a better question, is "which one would you spend your own money on?" Looks like the Giant offers better performance value for money despite it's shortcomings. Lately, I'm more interested in the value carbon race bikes as Specialized and Trek have gone off the rails price-wise. Giant, Canyon and Factor seem to be in the 'value' category. Honestly, it's kind of annoying as Specialized an Trek seem to be gouging because they can. I'm looking forward to a new crop of value bikes with Ultegra DI2 components including power meter as the sweet spot for my next bike. Sadly, Campy remains a fashion/unobtainium brand from a cost standpoint. Oh, one other thing about micro adjust on manual cables: I can't tell if/where there's a barrel adjust on the cables but Shimano had a really neat clicky, micro-adjuster. On my (now vintage) Trek, I replaced the down-tube campy barrel adjuster with the Shimano for excellent results.
kinda summarized this at the end of the vid - do you want a race bike that's ready to go, but willing to pay more? specialized. Do you want a capable race bike but may require some upgrades/customizations for it to reach it's full potential? Giant. You'll probably pay less even after upgrades with the giant, but specialized offers a complete package.
Maybe the categories could be weighted and personalized for each person as a 10 in price isn’t necessarily as important as a 10 in wheels for instance.
I’m moving from a emonda sl frameset to Allez sprint frameset. I’m doing this because the Emonda is a bit too small and I do not cat about the ~2-3 lbs difference between the frameset. Thoughts
Today is the day! I ordered my Giant TCR Advanced 1 on mechanical Ultegra for just 1970 Euro(about 2100 $). For this money you can only get aluminium Specialized Allez on v-brakes 😅
*Works great my **Latest.Bike** I have a bad knee so I still get exercise but the bike assists me. I am a big guy so I didn’t think it would go as fast but it works great.*
I’ll be honest. I considered the giant TCR. It’s an amazing bike and would definitely not hold me back, but I ended up building up an SL7 S works frame set and building it myself because this was my mid life crisis 40th birthday present to self and I just think it looks nicer. Either way I’m riding more and enjoying it. Well aware the Giant is a better value, but I wanted to treat myself, which I hardly ever do. I went 12 years with my old bike before building the SL7.
Yoooooo I'm actually doing the same thing!! 40th coming at the end of the month and my Tarmac SL7 is just about ready. Not the Sworks though but the white with snake eyes.
@@JFomo enjoy it! There are so many worse things we could be spending money on. You really just have to tune out the shit talking “dentist” comments from folks who don’t have them. I’m just a single dude with no kids who is fairly frugal with everything else. 😂 It’s an amazing bike. It was super easy to build up as well. Specialized gets a lot of hate because they do pull some BS, but the SL7 is fucking dope. Simple as that.
Could've gone with the Giant Propel if you're into more of the aero look!
@@redsoxfan5240 No thanks. Stem and integration looks terrible to me. To each their own. I love my SL7.
hey, i like your house tracks! very cool!
The tcr coming within 2 points for less than 50% of the sl7 price makes it a win automatically. Take a couple grand and upgrade to di2 and better wheels and then It's easily ahead.
Can't compare a 2 point difference with a price category included, should see it more like a $9000 44/60 SL7 and a $4000 36/60 TCR. I wouldn't mind getting 80% of the bike for 45% of the price.
Also don't think the TCR's wheels are 62.5% worse, or that the bike is over 50% worse in terms of speed. Much exaggerated claims by NorCal, quite disappointed by the biased ratings.
@@brysonszy6306 Yea those claims that were made about the cables slowing the bike down due to aerodynamics sort of threw me off.
@@brysonszy6306 The ratings are all in the category of top tier performance bikes. The TCR got a 8/10 for price despite being $4.000. That's super expensive for a bike in most contexts but relatively reasonably in the category.
@@brysonszy6306 yeah winning races with a bike that is 50% worst in terms of speed
Giant owns their own factory and has far greater quality control on their frames than all the other large bike brands. 👍
Merida own 49% share of Specialized. Majority of Specialized should be made by Merida. Merida is 2nd largest bike manufaturer in Taiwan. I think both Giant & Merida offer good bike with similar level of quality control.
SL 7 should get a 0 for price
Both are of course very capable bikes. I'd take the Giant TCR Advanced Pro any day over a Specialized SL7, much more bike for the money. In fact I bought a Giant TCR myself with the worst wheels possible (their PR-2 wheelset) and Ultegra DI2, then bought a very good wheelset and put latex tubes and Conti GP 5000 on the wheels, and it's more than enough. Future upgrade will be the bars.
Another key point: as much as I want to like an American bike company, but Specialized isn't nice to small dealers. Giant, on the other hand, is a great company for helping out small dealers.
Hey do you have similar assessment for other brands, I would take that into consideration for my purchase.
@@nhatminhang6969 heard that from people that own/run bike shops about both Specialized and Trek.
My wife surprised me with a new Bianchi a couple years back (blessing and a curse). I love it, and her for it of course...and it's such a beautiful bike, but the thing's an absolute tank, and not the bike I had my heart set on. I really wanted the TCR because it's actually obtainable......but when you wife buys you a new bike, the curse is that you're stuck with it....for a very very long time. The TCR Advanced Disc 0 was what I really wanted.
Speed rating is really off… these cables are maybe 3-4 watts… in fact, TCR with di2 is 0.5 watts off SL7…. So speed wise it’s not really a 4/10 vs 8/10 at all… more like 6/10 for TCR with mechanical.. imo :)
Hey Marcin, do you have a source for these numbers? Would love to look it up. :)
Both having disc brakes too, which is more Watts lost and weight gained so moot!
yeah the frontal area of the cables is so small, I dont think it's even a 3-4 watts difference
@@nicosf100it depends of what speed: for 30km/h it will be 2-3watts but for 45km/h it will be 7-8 Watts. Same for aero handlebar
What makes me cringe is having to listen weekend wannabe pro cyclists talking about how front cables affect their performance when they're doing sprints at their toy story amateur crits.
The bright side is that at least you have something to put the blame on why you came second.
Exactly.
The Tcr Advanced Pro Disc with Ultegra gets SLR1 wheels in Australia, not the heavier SLR2. The SLR1 wheels are 62 grams lighter than the Roval CL50.
The wheels in aus are better than the stock he was talking about?
Correct, the advanced pro disc 1, with ultegra mech, gets the SLR1 42mm deep wheels. They weigh the same as zipp404s, but arent as wide.
Also, the PRO versions gets the wider steerer tube at the top so the Zipp stems wont fit.
Jeff doesn't have a pro 1 version.
Regarding any aerodynamic drag of the external cables, it’s true that a cylinder shape generally has more drag compared to a foil. However, diameter is a factor. The relatively small diameter of the cable results in negligible increase in drag.
I don’t understand the speed scale your using. A 4/10 in speed for a $4000 bike and the SL7 with a 9/10 and costs $9000 must be coincidence for the price.
Giant describes the TCR as:
Advanced aerodynamics
This is where the TCR’s most quantifiable gains can be found compared to previous generation models. Every tube shape was analyzed, engineered and tested to create an overall structure with significantly lower drag at a wider range of yaw angles.
But you’re saying that cables make it so slow that it gets a 4/10?
He mentions the airfoil design is "cylindrical" it's less aerodynamics. Very hard statement to provide given he has no empirical data as proof the SL7 airfoil shape is LESS efficient than the TCR airfoil in an IDEAL condition let alone real world condition.
@@shinn43so which is faster?
9000 dollars in my area can literally buy the top spec TCR (10000 MSRP with 10% discount). Cadex wheels, Dura ace electronic hydraulic discs, way better spec than the tarmac what so ever.
When I looked up the official specs on the wheels, the Giant wheels are listed as only 30g heavier, and 8mm less deep. Personally I'd prefer the Specialized wheels for the width and the hubs, but based on the features actually discussed in the video, the specs seem a lot closer than the description would suggest.
For non-racers which is 90% of the riding population-TCR, but for the pro/1/2 peloton , or criters SL7. Edit: Michael Mathew’s just won Stage 14 (Tdf) against cream of the crop climbers and punchers on a giant TCR SL.
Let’s be honest, specialized is more of a marketing company than it is a bike company. That’s from someone who owns two tarmacs including an sl7. My next bike will be a giant.
What bike did You buy?
@ nothing yet. But it will either be used frame or Chinese brand like winspace and build it up custom.
I like how you said "easy to work on" for the giant and put a clip of the mechanic hammering away at the press fit BB
Press fit is best bottom bracket ever
The new 2023 Giant Propel being ridden in the Tour De France right now looks like a great bike. I’m not a fan of the current version though. Can’t say I would choose a TCR over the Tarmac, but I would choose the next Propel over the Tarmac. I wish Specialized would have kept the Venge in the lineup… but it probably made sense from a business and manufacturing/perspective to just make the Tarmac a bit more aero and and stop offering the Venge.
Wait for the new Propel. Aero up front, TCR at the back. Will do it all 👌🏼
If you throw a sram force etap axs on the TCR and use a RED 50/37 chainring up front, you would eliminate 2 out of 4 cables in the wind, maintain the easy to work on benefits, have electronic shifting, faster crit speed and have the TCR score above 50 points.
I built my tcr up with zipp303 wheels, force axs completely - works like a dream and solves some issues you are having. built came in at 4200€ 7,0kg weight
Sram 30mm crank it’s not good solution in bb86
I have a 2012 Giant TCR advanced mechanical, and I love it. Serves really good on climbs
I've tested both my slr1 and roval clx64 wheelsets on dead flat no traffic road for three rounds, and I didn't see any difference at 23-24mph
When did you see a difference?
He has SLR2s on that bike and they are not as good as the SL1. I have SL1s and actually really like them other than they could be a bit wider.
@@joshuasherer3294 yea I have the SLR1 as well. They certainly not a bad wheel but only 17mm internal width.
"Having a mess of cables at the front of the bike will slow you down"
*Races with front and rear GoPros*
Hmmmmm ;)
Content is king 🤣
Great review! Especially for 8 minutes 🙌 Always quality content.
11,000 miles (17,600 km) in one year....Whoa... mad respect man!!! Can you share some info on training plan (which zones, how much intensity? base, polarized, what not) and also some off bike work that you did earlier on and what you do to maintain those gains and diet info? Would be really helpful for amateur cyclists like me.
Thanks for a great post Jeff...as always👌A few things I don't get though. For all your ability, the level you compete at, the training you put in and the amount of competing you do, I really dont understand why you were given a 1x Rival SL7 last year (expensive commuter/gravel setup) and then a stock mechanical ultegra giant (enthusiast level weekend rider) as a team bike for a National Cat1 title contender??? Dont'get me wrong, I love to see you mixing it up and performing on upper/mid level equipment and showing its not all about the bike, but surely for all the efforts you, your team and your sponsors go to to get the whole team competing at the level you do, you are surely worthy of top level componentry commensurate with the riding you are doing. Forgive me if I speak out of turn here for I'm not familiar with the budget of Team Mikes Bikes, but It seems as if your equipment is provided as a token gesture by sponsors indifferent to the technical requirements of Crit racing and is focused on attendance rather than competion...which is certainly not the philosphy I pick up from you!
Anyways, best of luck, love your work, love the NorCal channel.
So looking forward to his response to this so I can learn!
The 1x was Force AXS HRD, not Rival.
I loved the honesty to say that you prefer the sl7! Congrats!
Nice comparison! I bought the exact same bike (Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1) last year, but mine came with the SRL-1 wheelset instead of SLR-2 and a dual-sided power meter as well. The SRL-1 wheels are pretty light in my opinion in comparison with other major brands with a similar rim profile.
Same as me but my TCR is rim brake
@@waynehiggins899 that is even better. I didn’t have any choice due to bike shortages.
$4000 vs $9000 - on that alone, Giant wins. You could upgrade everything to beyond the Spesh and still be cheaper, with two sets of wheels, powermeter, and have enough left over for a aero helmet, shoes, and new kit!- which would give you much more gains than any bike frame... and you would still have money left over for race entry fees and gas $!!!
The weight has more to do with the components. TCR can well be light as or lighter than the Tarmac.
the giant did win on the 4k vs 9k, that was the first category
Uhhh, what? If you want to go “beyond” then you’d be looking at $2700 for a SRAM RED AXS groupset and ~$2000-2500 for a wheel set, which puts you right about $9k without including tires, a power meter, handlebar, or stem, let alone any of the other things you mentioned.
Hey Jeff, I appreciate you coming up with a final score and giving your personal input/opinion - especially since the easy answer would be to say you like the free bike you're on right now. But my question to you is, since you had to make more upgrades to the Giant to get it to your liking, what were the final weights and prices "all in" for the two bikes when all said and done? Starting with a $4k bike but spending 3 or 4 grand to upgrade is a tough pill to swallow.
it's a personal choice what you want to upgrade, but my wheels/cockpit probably like $2-2.5k. I still don't think it's on the level of the spec but honestly splitting hairs at that point, and it's still 2.5k cheaper.
@@NorCalCycling Gotcha. Thanks. The Specialized SL7 is definitely a premium bike at a premium price.
@@NorCalCycling Did you also upgrade some parts to DuraAce like the chain ring? I think it would only be a fair comparison of what you're actually riding vs what you used to ride.
It says something about the stock setup when you end up with some many upgrades
You posting this now was perfect timing. I’m looking to replace my 2009 Trek Madone and hadn’t even considered the Giant. Definitely going to check it out. I’m a MTB racer who rides road maybe once a week so it sounds like a good fit for me.
Definitely consider Giant. Giant always provides great value!
We’re both in the same boat
I want the one with the creaky seatpost because it looks so good. And with 60 mm sails on both ends because those watts are so important to us non pros. I'll gladly risk it for 0 rewards.
Stop slagging mechanical shifting. It works fine properly set up. Ive never had a cable stretch that required any re-adjustment.
Speed is 4/10 vs 9/10? Lol 😂 how many watts do those cables lose for Giant to have half the points?
Drivetrain is also double the points for the Specialized? Ok, i can't take this video seriously at all 😂
sponsored by Specialized
0:17 Is there any reference to Counter Strike here ? Or is it only the video editor choice for the smoke sound effect ahah ! It would be nice if you play CS ;) (a bit out of the main subject ahah)
Jeff, it's just us, we've known each other for a long youtube time now. So you can say it, we won't mind. You'd much rather have a Propel to compare things with, we understand.
(Also a message to Specialized : Guys, what were you thinking ? Enough with being silly, it was fun for a year or 2, we all laughed ahah, but now come to your senses and bring back the Venge, will ya?)
Someone has been spoilt by electronic shifting 😂 but yeah electronic is great for racing with. Giant bikes are great value and the specialized being 1x is so weird. Why would they do that on a race bike?
For what it’s worth, running 1x is relative and can be amazing depending on where you live.
I used to live in WI and most of the riding I’d do was relatively flat with some rolling hills; did plenty of fast group rides/races and had no problems with gearing, saved a little weight with no FD, and overall just less parts/maintenance to do.
Fast forward and now I live in CO and I switched to 2x immediately once I moved :)
The smallest gear on the 1x build is actually a lower ratio than the smallest gear on the Giant in this video. 46/36 = 1.27:1, 39/28 = 1.39:1. The biggest gear on the 1x is slightly smaller, but if you’re spinning out 53/11 on a flat crit course you should probably be a World Tour pro.
Add to that, there are usually only 14 distinct gear ratios in a 2x11 drivetrain, so with a properly spaced cassette that places the gaps in the bigger cogs where it is much less noticeable, you don’t lose much. Riders win gravel events on 1x drivetrains with massive gaps all the time, and tbh I’d rather not have to think about front derailleur shifts in a crit anyway.
4:03 He says "I don't think the speed difference in these two bikes is super obvious" then goes on about you wouldn't hop on the specialized and feel faster....then he rates the Giant a 4/10 and the Specialized a 9/10. How bizarre.
my point is, you wont get on the spec and immediately feel the difference in speed, but plop those bikes in a wind tunnel and i'm willing to bet the spec is faster. the Giant has external cables, non aero tube sections, and a non integrated cockpit. it's not huge, and things like body position, strategy, nutrition and training are all more important especially if you're new to the sport.
@@NorCalCycling regarding speed/aero difference are you able to compare the bike in the specialized Win Tunnel? Track down a buddy with an SL7 if required haha
@@NorCalCycling I am sure the Specialized probably is marginally faster. Given you would need a wind tunnel to detect the difference I was just amazed by the difference in rating. If we were talking 4/10 vs 4.5/10 for those marginal gains then I would not disagree.
@@aedsywind tunel data give us nothing what is happened in real world riding. There is practically zero differences for this two bikes when same handlebar and wheels are same on this two bikes.
Imagine comparing a bike with electric gears and one with mechanical ones that’s far cheaper. Also those wheels are epic for the price- sub 1500g and mid depth all round race wheels are FANTASTIC. I can’t actually believe this review- absolutely tragic. Wind tunnel testing would suggest they’re almost identical in terms of aerodynamics
price is a category that the giant won easily compared to the tarmac. I'm glad you're happy with the wheels.
Swap your group set for a mechanical axs groupset, convenience on brakes, clean set up and swap those wheels with cadex. I run that set up on my TCR adv sl 0, I hit 15.2lb on a size large L much faster too with normal convenience for maintenance.
Nice review! But between the two, which is more comfortable? Thanks
Dude is comparing a $9k bike to a $4k bike 💀💀😂 obviously should have based the score upon the price point. Can’t beat the Giant for the price
With a 5k difference in price...TCR hands down.
This might be way off topic, but I have addressed this comparison at the bottom of the spectrum. The entry level Tarmac and TCR 105 level. I’ve had both and both come with crap wheels. I’d like to see a review on these. For me, it’s the TCR. It’s definitely lighter. Both are great
Tbh that mixed bike on the thumbnail looks awesome
Giant TCR is the humble bike and not fancy but it does its' job.
The convenience factor of external cable routing is exaggerated imo. People don’t change their stem height that often and some bike boxes nowadays allow you to pack your bike without removing the handlebar. By the way, the new Propel looks super good, I hope you’ll get to try it when it comes out.
New propel 2023? Is that from TDF?
If you remove the convenience scores:
Specialized: 44/60
Giant: 35/60
Hey Jeff, nice video, as a Sur American our most important category is "convinience" hahah, I got a 2022 propel, Giant fan here, and happy that you got that TCR, next time you can add a new category "Looks" or "Style" in which I will rate the TCR 10/10 with that slim shape and high profile wheels, un saludo desde Colombia! 🥰🥰
Lol, in a sprint @ 40mph the fist thing to disturb the air is your body going crazy, the cables are not even in the same post code aero-wise. I expect more from you mate.
Biggest pro for the Giant just went out the door with the new model!
Jeff, I have to apologize for ever doubting you man. I thought for sure this was just going to be sort of an ad for your new bike sponsor, and that you would only have great things to say about your new bike. I should have known better. You gave a brutally honest opinion about both bikes. Kudos to you and again, sorry for doubting you.
Your honesty is much appreciated.
The 2023 Propel looks 🔥hopefully you guys get the upgrade
aero is complicated. sure, round cables are not aero, but they are also creating disrupted air for the head tube to move through. Trek basically admitted to some of the aero BS manufacturers engage in with their new Madone. they admitted that non-aero bars have higher drag, but they create disturbed air for the massive carbon windbag behind them, so system drag is barely increased. ultimately, if you get your body position optimized because it is easier to do with external cables versus integrated, you will have a more aero total package. integrated cables look fast, though, and that counts for something.
agreed, body position outweighs any equipment modification when it comes to aerodynamics. I tested this in the the wind tunnel in a couple vids on my channel.
I see your point as team bikes, but if you were self-financing the equipment would you still rather spend $9200 on the tarmac switched to 2x than $5500 for TCR with winspace, and gp5000s?
I’ll buy the tarmac if I liked it more, especially so if self-financed, since we aren’t restricted to whatever the team wants us to ride.
That’s the nice thing about a casual weekend cyclist. You can buy whatever bike you want because you don’t have to care about what the sponsor or some silly race result might say.
I’d still buy the Tarmac. The difference in cash over the 5 to 10 years I will be riding the bike is really not that big of a deal.
To fairly compare TCR and SL7 Pro, you should normalize the difference in cost between the TCR ($4K) and SL7 ($9K). Put $5K of upgrades towards the TCR. Now who wins?
The TCR is my absolute dream bike! The Orca Aero and CAAD13 are also some favorites of mine. I’m curious to know if you’ve ever been on either of these, and if you’d recommend either of them over a more racing/criterium-oriented bike?
Edit: I’m just a casual to intermediate level road cyclist, but I’m hoping to also get a bike that can be competitive in a race, as you have inspired me to get into racing!
Why would you bother with racing? It’s a complete waste of time for anyone who aspires to actually own their bike, rather than be made to ride a bike they don’t own.
@@87togabitobecause he like adrenalinę and like compete with another bike enthusiast
That gap between tyre and seat tube on the SL7 is probably worse aerodynamically than the non-integrated cables.
Why they do this? For tyre clearance??
Liked that video before I even watched it. Great review of bikes I can’t afford.
I lol'd when he mentioned the aero benefits of no cables. No way that makes a difference.
Thank you for making this video! I always appreciate your opinion and LOVE your channel! Thank you for all the time and effort!
bravo for no sugar coating
I got elitewheels ent rim brake wheels for $378 during prime day. 50mm deep, weigh less than 1500g, why spend more than $378 for a nice set of carbon wheels?
The aerodynamic disadvantage of the exposed cables is highly debatable. They are most likely already in turbulant air from the wheels. The wheels are the first thing hiting the air. Otherwise great video.
That’s right, and behind this cables and handlebar sits human body 😂
Which stem and handlebar did you use on TCR? How about spacer and headset cap?
on the topic of 1x chainsets, jumbo visma absolutely crushing this year on their 1x Cervelo S5s both Roglic and Vingegaard taking huge wins so the proof is absolutely in the pudding now, willing to bet Jumbo is running 1x at TDF in more stages than one
I'd say the Canyon Aeroad is by far the best bang for your buck race bike at the moment. Comes with a 58/62mm aero wheelset and 105 groupset for 3500 euros, or Ultegra for 300 bucks more.
Does it have that creaky seatpost?
I would never buy a Canyon anything after seeing how they treat their customers.
Yah the canyon has seat post issues, it sounds real bad according current owners and past owners.
Those cables May actually trip the air before it smacks into your legs...Just a thought.
So a bike with exposed cables may be more aero 😂
Low-cost due to large-scale automated production line vs High-cost due to marketing hype and sponsorships.
I appreciate the honest review!
I believe it's been wind tunnel proven that 40-50mm depth was best in average conditions. Unless you're in a controlled environment (no wind or indoor track), you wouldn't want any more depth than that. Also, the small gain in weight on a aero wheel is worth the gains aerodynamically. How many 80mm wheels do you see racing in the Tour?
Also, 4k is still too much bike for me.
I’m in France and I got the TCR pro disc 1. SRL 1 wheels, power metre and mechanical ultegra for €3750. SL7 was €5500 no power metre and €40 alloy wheels. So obviously brought the TCR! But if I already had a decent pair of wheels I may have thought more about the SL7. As for external cables, pros still have external cables so if it was that big a deal then they wouldn’t do it! You save a watt or 2 max.
Thanks! I would love to see a head to head constant power time trial like you did with the SL6 v SL7. I guess you’d need to use the sworks bike since the old team bike is gone.
Both bikes are amazing..I own both(2021 tarmac s-works SL7 build w 12 speed di2) and the (TCR advanced pro with sram red)...i prefer the TCR when it comes to price straight from the company(more bang for your buck)and I prefer the SL7 s-works tarmac due to performance because it's slightly faster and more nimble to me..I think people get mad at specialized prices more than their performance..I find my Sl7 equipped with the shimano di2 12 speed slightly lighter and faster than my TCR equipped with sram red..I have no loyalty to a brand and I think it all comes down to preference..its the same as xbox vs playstation and coke vs Pepsi in the 80s...lol..you can always swap drive trains, add light carbon wheels, etc to make a bike lighter..thats why I own both.
Do You have same wheels on both bikes? What do You think, why sl7 is faster? Because of frame alone or by overall package (wheels, cockpit, etc)?
TCR a 4/10 for "speed" because of external cables. No chance lol
external cables, non aero tube sections, non integrated cockpit. I stand by my [subjective] rating 😅
@@NorCalCyclingTCR have aero tubes and aero handlebar
TCR has a proprietary seatpost, right? As well as proprietary steerer spacers. After having a specialized with the SCS hub spacing, I’m am completely out on proprietary stuff.
5 points off on speed for external cables?
Great video. Would’ve loved a mention of the 2 year crash warranty on the frame/carbon bits from Giant
I've seen this video a couple of times and find it to be the best comparison between these two bikes. Something to keep in mind. The comparison is for 4k vs 9k bike. The gap there is huge, and the end results were very close. U spend 4k in a tcr put in 3-4k in upgrades would u say tcr would surpass tarmac?
Hey Jeff.
I have a 2021 TCR advanced Pro Disc 1.
The ultegra mechanical version like yours.
If you had the SLR1 wheels that come on the PRO version, they weigh the same as Zipp 404s (~1450g and not as wide, yes)
Your bike is fitted there with the SLR2 wheelset. (~1550g)
Also, if you had the PRO version, the Overdrive steerer would be too wide for your Zipp stem there, at least I'm pretty sure.
I conclude you have the TCR advanced 1. Not the advanced PRO.
I too wish you still had that sweet sweet S works.....
The advanced SL is a more direct competitor to the SL7 Pro.
Thanks for posting, I've enjoyed watching many of your crit action videos. I have a dumb question; is there a reason your sponsors didn't offer the propel? I would have thought they would have given a Cat I crit rider their most aero offering. IMO, it's hard to find anyone who feels the SL7's are fairly priced, and maybe only a comparison to Pinarello makes them appear reasonably priced, but you also rarely hear from riders who don't like the SL7 that they already have.
I thought you had a top end SL7 before the white one, but maybe that was a venge; I honestly can't remember.
Curious how a bike that you couldn't ride with original 1x setup was scored 8/10?
This.
Well i took my tcr(rim brake) put some reynolds, force shifting and red crankset and i can say it worth the money
It depends on if you can cover the bike's cost by using the bike. If you can, choose performance. If you can not, choose the value.
Got an orba orca M20, ultegra mechanical, disc brakes and integrated cables for 3400 dollars. Weighs 19 pounds. Great value. You can also lower the stem to your needs. I will upgrade the wheels though and put a carbon ergo handlebar. Will be close to 18 pounds for about 4300 dollars with the upgrade. Personally I find ultegra mechanical the sweetspot. Everything di2 is just that much pricier and the money is better spent elsewhere.
The new Propel looks sick!!!
If i have 4k i’ll get the Canyon 😬
win tunnel says exposed cables only adds 12 seconds in 40km race, its something but certainly not enough to care... for me anyways : / . All the extra hassle of dealing with those internal cables is a complete pita, only worth it for top level riders who don't pay for the bike and have a mechanic to deal with all the BS haha
Good run-down of the two bikes Not sure why you gave such high marks to the Specialized drive train given you had to upgrade the front chain ring (did that require a new spider or just addition of a chain ring?). Also, your upgrades (wheels, bar, stem) on the Giant added what, $2K or more to the cost of the thing? so you've got $8K vs $6K. For amateurs, cost is always the thing driving self-fuded equipment. Maybe a better question, is "which one would you spend your own money on?" Looks like the Giant offers better performance value for money despite it's shortcomings. Lately, I'm more interested in the value carbon race bikes as Specialized and Trek have gone off the rails price-wise. Giant, Canyon and Factor seem to be in the 'value' category. Honestly, it's kind of annoying as Specialized an Trek seem to be gouging because they can. I'm looking forward to a new crop of value bikes with Ultegra DI2 components including power meter as the sweet spot for my next bike. Sadly, Campy remains a fashion/unobtainium brand from a cost standpoint. Oh, one other thing about micro adjust on manual cables: I can't tell if/where there's a barrel adjust on the cables but Shimano had a really neat clicky, micro-adjuster. On my (now vintage) Trek, I replaced the down-tube campy barrel adjuster with the Shimano for excellent results.
kinda summarized this at the end of the vid - do you want a race bike that's ready to go, but willing to pay more? specialized. Do you want a capable race bike but may require some upgrades/customizations for it to reach it's full potential? Giant. You'll probably pay less even after upgrades with the giant, but specialized offers a complete package.
@@NorCalCycling Apples & Oranges :-)
You said you won't feel faster on the Specialized after riding the giant but then you gave 4 to the Giant and 9 to the Specialized??? :D
I would definitely give the TCR a much better score for weight and speed. The TCR also has much better stiffness compared to the SL7
What replacement stem/handlebars did you use? The only replacements I can find are from Giant.
Maybe the categories could be weighted and personalized for each person as a 10 in price isn’t necessarily as important as a 10 in wheels for instance.
I’m moving from a emonda sl frameset to Allez sprint frameset. I’m doing this because the Emonda is a bit too small and I do not cat about the ~2-3 lbs difference between the frameset. Thoughts
Both are great bikes, I would personally choose the emonda SL though. But you're better off riding a bike that fits you properly!
Speed 4 out of 10 for tcr for the cables on the handle bar vs 9 on tarmac? That's seems extreme
Nice, why did the team choose TCR over Propel? And can we get a bike check on our foreign friend Glenn's bike?
awesome. Your coming to Chicago?!? Are you planning any meet and greets? Night rides?
I'll be there 25-28th
I agree with many points you brought forward but the cables being exposed to airflow....does not make a difference.
Today is the day! I ordered my Giant TCR Advanced 1 on mechanical Ultegra for just 1970 Euro(about 2100 $). For this money you can only get aluminium Specialized Allez on v-brakes 😅